Subject: Banzai Defence From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 94 13:46:00 -0640 Howdy, ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu (Jeff Kimmel) writes: > Also from the same scenario, is there a rule anywhere that > prohibits LATW from firing at infantry in terrain other > than biuldings? I looked three times and couldnt find any, > other than the penalty on PF availability against non-AFV > targets. I was curious why the American had 6 Baz and the > only targets would have been the pillboxes and huts > (biuldings for most purposes). Several people have pointed out C8.31 which lists the terrain which HEAT can be fired against. I wanted to add that you can't use HEAT against Huts per G5.31. You can also use HEAT against a Gun. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: ITALIAN BROTHERS - ASL From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 94 13:46:00 -0640 Howdy, JJC%MPA15C@MPA15AB.mv-oc.Unisys.COM writes: > A question came up while playing. He overran a squad of > mine. I passed the PAATC to perform a reaction-CC attack. > I missed, he stayed in the hex. Do I need to continue to > pass a PAATC to attack his tank in CC/Melee? His tank > stayed there for two full game turns, and my worthy > opponent's contention was that my squad had to pass a PAATC > each time. The rules stated that a PAATC was needed to > enter an AFV's location, but it also said only one PAATC > need be made per phase. A11.6 "CC vs AN AFV.: In order for a MMC to advance into a Location containing a manned Known enemy AFV, it must first pass a PAATC (failure of which causes the unit to become pinned) ... Once in the same Location with an enemy AFV during the CCPh, no further PAATC is necessary in order to attack it during the CC." In addition to the above, using Reaction Fire requires a PAATC, but otherwise a PAATC is not necessary. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: Too much firepower... From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 94 13:46:00 -0640 Howdy, "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" writes: > Does a unit have to use all it's firepower when attacking a > unit? In the absence of any rule allowing it to modify the FP, I would say yes, you have to use all FP. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: p.cocke@genie.geis.com Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 01:51:00 UTC Subject: Wall LOS Take a look at the B9.1 EX. Was it Fred Timm who advanced the theory that LOS is blocked from X6 to Z9? Granted, that is the only way to be consistent if you want to say that the LOS in the example posted here earlier is blocked (as if, for instance, hexside Y7/Y8 were a wall). I think the rule clearly indicates that the X6-Z9 LOS is clear, and would be clear even if Y7/Y8 were a wall. But I agree that Y7/Y8 status is immaterial to the discussion. The LOS should be the same, regardless. ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 08:31:00 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: Avaloncon Since the DL is slow and I can't think of much else than Avaloncon, here's my choices for scenarios. Round 1 Taking of Takrouna (Brits) Bridge to Nowhere (Russians) Round 2 Turned Away (Germans) Bread Factory #2 (Germans) Round 3 Panzers Marsch! (Russians) Round 4 Birds of Prey (Germans) The Professionals (no preference) Round X Pouppeville Exit (Germans) Chapelle St. Anne (Germans) Round 5 I don't know? Too many choices. Round 6 Totsugeki (Japanese) Munda Mash (Japanese) Round 7 Death at Carentan (US) Hitdorf on the Rhine (Germans) Any thoughts? Am I eliminating myself with these chioces? Geez, can I last three more days. Chuck ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 14:24:50 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: Avaloncon Hmmm, Chuck sent his choices, I'll try some of mine as well... Round 1 >Taking of Takrouna (Brits) >Bridge to Nowhere (Russians) I'm with Chuck here, though I think the Italians can put up a good fight in Takrouna, and might even have the edge in Bridge. Round 2 >Turned Away (Germans) >Bread Factory #2 (Germans) As an RB rookie, these are my choices too; other 'Netters recom- mend playing the Germans, but I like the setup alternatives for the Russians in Turned Away. Round 3 >Panzers Marsch! (Russians) This looks fun, but tough on the Russians; if anybody can persuade me otherwise this will be my choice. Until then: Bone of Contention (Either) Sylvan Death (Either) Round 4 >Birds of Prey (Germans) >The Professionals (no preference) Same again (hope we play each other, Chuck!), unless I can get some- one to try One Step Forward. Round X >Pouppeville Exit (Germans) >Chapelle St. Anne (Germans) Poupeville seems good, but Chapelle seems pointlessly small for a tourney; I'll try my luck (literally) with Under the Noel Trees. Round 5 >I don't know? Too many choices. Best round in my eyes; my choices: Khamsin (Brits) Red Star, Red Sun (Japanese) Round 6 >Totsugeki (Japanese) >Munda Mash (Japanese) Chuck's choices are two great scenarios, but I've played 'em both already. I'd like to play Eastern Gate as either side, but to do so I'll have to run the risk of ending up as the Brits in Kokoda Trail. Round 7 >Death at Carentan (US) >Hitdorf on the Rhine (Germans) I'm hooking up with an old face-to-face buddy for a try at Cushman's Pocket, as the Japanese; if either of us are still in the running at this point (yeah, right) we'll go for a listed scenario. I'm still a little nervous about the RB stuff, but fundamentally it's still infantry versus infantry. As for the others, except for round 3 I think there is a lot to look forward to. I hope they have plenty of coffee, though. See you there, JR ----- Subject: Wall LOS From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 09:40:00 -0640 Howdy, p.cocke@genie.geis.com writes: > Take a look at the B9.1 EX. Was it Fred Timm who advanced > the theory that LOS is blocked from X6 to Z9? Granted, > that is the only way to be consistent if you want to say > that the LOS in the example posted here earlier is blocked > (as if, for instance, hexside Y7/Y8 were a wall). I think > the rule clearly indicates that the X6-Z9 LOS is clear, and > would be clear even if Y7/Y8 were a wall. But I agree that > Y7/Y8 status is immaterial to the discussion. The LOS > should be the same, regardless. I don't know the history of this posting, so forgive me if I am off subject. The LOS X6 - Z9 is not blocked, as is explicitly stated in the example on the next page (page B7 '87). In the upper left corner, the second example says this. If Y7/Y8 were a wall, the rules (as I read them) would still say the LOS is clear. I find this a little disturbing, but while it is a strange rule, it doesn't produce any paradoxes and so can be played. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 08:39:21 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: RE: TEST > > Seems to be making it out here fine! > > Doug "a lurker" Duchene > dougdu@microsoft.com A-HAH! Computer software giant Microsoft has finally tumbled to the vast untapped market out there for ASL computer games, and has planted Doug to lurk in our midst, quietly recording our best ideas for inclusion into their new line of ASL games! Well, it was bound to happen SOMEtime... Tom "We're from {The Government/Microsoft}. We're here to help." ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 10:29:30 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Brian's Picks Ok, if everyone else is going to post their scenario selections I'll do the same! 8) Remember, these are subject to change on the slightest whim or if someone is willing to pay me to play something else! 8) Thursday ROUND 1 - an OK round, I've rarely played these scenarios so I'm looking forward to 'em. 1) Bridge to Nowhere (Italian) - I think the Italians are favored so I'll try for 'em but wont give up the balance to get 'em. 2) Taking of Takrouna (British) - I like the British since I can't see favoring the Italians in two scenarios in one day. 8) ROUND 2 - a boring round, in that these are tired, overworked scenarios although they are all *good* scenarios. 1) Bread Factory #2 (German) - I like the Germans, but hate seeing my leaders all die to sniper attacks... 2) Turned Away (German) - I always seem to lose this scenario regardless of side so I'll take the krauts for the fun of it. I think they should win, esp. if they can figure out the HQ quickly. ROUND 3 - not a good round for me as I only want to play one scenario from each column. 1) A New Kind of Foe (German) - I've never played it, stick with the krauts. I have heard it is slightly pro-German. 2) L'Ecole Normal (German) - I like the Germans, although those darn partisans are a bit more deadly than they appear. ROUND 4 - ahh, a good round with lots of good scenarios to choose from. 1) Le Herisson (German) - either side can win, all depends on SMOKE DR from those sigs. The Germans CANNOT win if all three use up their smoke on the first shots, IMO. Well, they probably could but it'd be damn tough... 2) Birds of Prey (German) - Love this scenario, although a mistaken attack can mess up the German day. I'm tempted to play The Professionals (GERMAN). I know, I know, I've said I'll never play it again, but if I hold out for the Germans at least I should get the Yugo's with the balance at worst. BTW, what is the Yugo balance? ROUND 4a - if necessary, which I hope it isn't with these scenarios to choose from! 8) 1) Pouppeville Exit (German) - they have most of the advantages, but can quickly lose if the US w/leaders get hot (or even mild-hot) with the dice. 2) Chapelle St. Anne (US) - too small for a tournament, I hope we play 1) ROUND 5 - a great round for me, as I love desert scenarios. 1) Khamsin (German) - Either side would be good to play, but I like to attack. 2) Red Star, Red Sun (Japanese) - I hope I remember that the Japs get MOL vs. tanks, last time I played they could have used it but still won (barely). ROUND 6 - another good round as I prefer the PTO to all other ASL I'd love to play Eastern Gate, but wont play the other two in the A column in a tournament (too boring for CH and too unbalanced for OtKT). Maybe someone will want to play EG for fun sometime? 1) Totsugeki! (Japanese) - stick with what you know, and I know the Japs in this scenario. 2) Minda Mash (Japanese) - always close, I love the FT. 3) Cibik's Ridge (Japanese) - if someone insists I'll play this but I'm starting to like the Japanese a good bit. Certainly it isn't as pro-marine as I thought after the first 15-20 playings. ROUND 7 - I hope I'm still "in the hunt" at this point, but doubt I will be. If not, I'll play something short so I can get a Backblast playtest in (or maybe Wrasslin'?) if I am I'll go for length, maybe I can "whine for the win" by breaking my opponents spirit? 8) IF IN HUNT 1) Bloody Red Beach (US) - Plenty of time to whine about the damage I've taken while my 768's kick butt on the shore IF NOT 1) Death at Carentan (German) - I'd play either side but prefer the Germans. Gotta take out that radio, though, to have a good chance of a win. 2) Hitdorf on the Rhine (US) - Long, but fun. Find the mines with 337's and kick butt with the plentiful (-) leadership and assault fire. Just hope the German 10-2 doesn't BH to a 10-3. I've seen this happen and it isn't fun attacking when assault moves buy you a 8(-1) defensive fire shot! Hope to see everyone there, and to bum plenty of BEER! I like it light, Lone Star or Bud Light is fine. Please keep your oatmeal breakfast cereal beers to yourself! 8) I'll be in the ASL area ALL THE TIME so please drop by and say hello if you have the chance. I might not recognize the name, so pass on your email addr as well! Roll Low, unless you're playing me, Brian BTW, if anyone from Washington State comes out to doncon could you please smuggle some Henry Weinhard (spelling of last name unknown) out? I've heard it is the best beer ever and would sure love a taste! BCY ----- From: Kevin Pietersen Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 16:06:31 +0200 (SAST) Subject: Errata to G11: Pegasus Bridge I did not find any errata for this scenario in the Official errata and FAQ so here it is for anyone who is interested. Someone who has the ear of the 'official' guy(s) may want to pass it on. There are two errors in the scenario, one in the British OB and another in the Aftermath section. Error 1: Only 3 gliders landed at the Bridge, not 5 as the scenario claims. These gliders were Hamilcars which could carry 30 men. The 9 squads can therefore be carried in 3 gliders. I think the error cropped up due to the fact that during this operation 6 gliders were involved, three for each bridge, three for the canal bridge and three for the river bridge. Out of the 6 gliders, FIVE landed close to there objectives, three at the particular bridge depicted in this scenario. Error 2: The second error is minor, in the Aftermath section it say that the glider troops 'disarmed the demolition charges'. The demolition charges had not been primed and the detonators were still in the nearby blockhouse. This error arises from the movie The Longest Day where the director thought it would be more exciting if the detonators were disarmed by the glider troops. That's all. Kevin pieter2@avaal.geology.und.ac.za or pieter2@lourie.und.ac.za ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: List of Favorites I really enjoyed seeing the list of "ALL TIME FAVORITE SCENARIOS" put together by Darren Gour from 'da net.' I got bored over the weekend and compiled a few statistics from the Record to add to the list. There were 110 scenarios! As expected the majority of Favs (89.1%) are AH scenarios. As of the Annual '93b there are 241 AH scenarios. If we analyze just AH scenarios, our list of Favorites represents 40.6% of the total number published. Upon seeing the list, three things came to my mind. (1) How many of the Favs have I played? 26. Not bad considering I own only 60 of the scenarios on the list. (2) AH publishes our favorite scenarios. This is an obvious default as they're the "official" organ for the game. Nonetheless, 11% of the Favs are from outside sources. No doubt this number will grow with improved marketing (and consistent publication track records). (3) The list of Favs is too long. Let's consider it a ballot. If y'all don't mind the wasted ether, let's revote on the list to shorten it to the top 10, 20, and 30 scenarios. Mark only 10 scenarios that are on the list and return it to me for collation. I'll post the results in a couple of weeks (and after a couple of reminders). jeff@back.vims.edu The usual provisos apply to balance, and playability. * denotes that I didn't have the statistic available. ============================================================= Initial Balance ID Scenario Name rank D:A Remark ============================================================= ASL 4 Commissar's House 1 21:20 most played E Hill 621 2 2:9 least balanced? A 25 Cold Crocodiles 3 18:16 most played ASL 71 Jungle Citadel 5.5 4:5 CG III The Barrikady 5.5 4:5 G Hube's Pocket 5.5 2:1 RB 3 Bread Factory #2 5.5 13:16 most played A 60 Totsugeki! 9 2:6 ASL 23 Under The Noel Trees 9 23:19 most played ASL 8 The Fugitives 9 10:12 ASL 37 Khamsin 14 7:7 ASL 54 Bridge To Nowhere 14 4:5 ASL 65 Red Star, Red Sun 14 5:4 C Streets Of Stalingrad 14 12:3 DASL 8 The Schoolhouse 14 4:3 RB 6 Turned Away 14 10:15 most played T 2 Puma Prowls 14 7:14 A 39 Showdown At Tug Arg Pa 31 4:7 ASL 1 Fighting Withdrawal 31 39:31 most played ASL 11 Defiance On Hill 30 31 17:26 most played ASL 13 Le Manoir 31 12:13 most played ASL 21 Among The Ruins 31 10:12 ASL 22 Kurhaus Clash 31 8:11 ASL 25 Gavin's Gamble 31 3:3 ASL 30 Sylvan Death 31 8:10 ASL 34 A New Kind Of Foe 31 1:2 ASL 35 Blazin' Chariots 31 14:13 most played ASL 46 Birds of Prey 31 8:5 ASL 5 In Sight Of The Volga 31 6:4 ASL 60 On The Kokoda Trail 31 9:16 most played ASL 63 The Eastern Gate 31 7:3 ASL 82 For Honor Alone 31 12:2 least balanced? ASLUG 14 Morgan's Stand 31 * Atp 8 Italian Brothers 31 * DASL 10 The Final Battle 31 2:1 DASL 7 With Flame And Shell 31 2:4 F Paw Of The Tiger 31 1:7 G 6 Rocket's Red Glare 31 12:20 most played KGP 3 Panthers in the Mist 31 3:3 KGP I Clash At Stoumont 31 2:0 RB 2 Blood & Guts 31 5:10 T 6 Dead Of Winter 31 12:5 T 7 Hill 253.5 31 4:6 TT 3 Panzers Marsch! 31 * A 7 Slamming The Door 2:8 least balanced? A 8 Agony Of Doom 6:0 A 19 Cat And Mouse 1:1 A 20 Counterattack Sidi Bou Zid 1:8 A 28 The Professionals 4:2 A 32 Zon With The Wind 20:20 most played A 34 Lash Out 13:7 A 37 Dreil Team 11:9 A 41 OP Hill 4:0 A 44 Blocking Action At Lipki 9:6 A 47 White Tigers 7:2 A 52 Swan Song 3:5 A 55 The Cat Has Jumped 0:2 A 58 Munda Mash 6:2 A 59 Death At Carentan 3:6 A 64 Chateau de Quesnoy * A 66 Counterstroke At Stonne 1:1 B Tractor Works 1:4 G 1 Timoshenko's Attack 1:5 G 8 Recon In Force 6:6 G 14 Tiger, Tiger 3:7 J The Bitche Salient 2:5 L Hitdorf On The Rhine 4:3 M 1st Crisis Army Gr Nort 2:1 N Soldiers Of Destruction 26:4 most played least balanced P The Road To Wiltz 5:2 Q Land Leviathans 1:3 T 4 Shklov's Labors Lost 20:26 most played ASL 6 Red Packets 4:10 ASL 14 Silence That Gun 30:20 most played ASL 32 Subterranean Quarry 2:4 ASL 39 Turning The Tables 1:4 ASL 42 Point Of No Return 2:4 ASL 48 Toujours L'Audace 5:9 ASL 53 A High Price To Pay 5:6 ASL 57 Battle For Rome 3:3 ASL 62 Bungle In The Jungle 6:2 ASL 66 Bushmasters 13:1 least balanced ASL 67 Cibik's Ridge 25:12 most played ASL 70 KP 167 3:2 ASL 74 Bloody Red Beach 3:3 ASL 77 Le Herisson 13:11 ASL 79 Bridge Of Seven Planets 4:2 DASL 3 Storming The Factory 7:8 DASL 5 Little Stalingrad 0:2 DASL 6 Draconian Measures 2:5 DASL 9 Preparing The Way 10:4 DASL 13 Bogged Down 3:2 DASL 15 Barkmann's Corner 3:5 DASL 18 King Of The Hill 3:2 DASL A To The Last Man 1:4 DASL A6 Breakout 3:5 HASL A5 Take Two * RB 1 One Down, Two To Go 7:6 RB 4 To The Rescue 1:4 ASLUG 11 Raiders On Butaritari * NEWS 32 Death and Ruins * O 50.2 Dora II * ?? One More Hour * Rout R Brandenburger Bridge * Rout R Wintergewitter * TT 1 Take The Chance * X 13 Acts Of Defiance * Z 7 Cushman's Pocket * ============================================================= ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 11:18:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Van Sant Subject: Re: Errata to G11: Pegasus Bridge On Mon, 1 Aug 1994, Kevin Pietersen wrote: [Mostly good clarification on the crummy, AH Pegasus Bridge scenario] > > Error 1: > Only 3 gliders landed at the Bridge, not 5 as the scenario claims. > These gliders were Hamilcars which could carry 30 men. The 9 squads No, they were Horsas. The Horsa can carry up to 30 men (when they're loaded to the gills like these gliders were). > can therefore be carried in 3 gliders. I think the error cropped up > due to the fact that during this operation 6 gliders were involved, > three for each bridge, three for the canal bridge and three for the > river bridge. Out of the 6 gliders, FIVE landed close to there > objectives, three at the particular bridge depicted in this scenario. I'd like to know why the assault team uses 458's instead of 648's. Granted, the men came from the *Airlanding* Brigade of the 6th Airborne, I have not seen any source that records that they were differently equipped or trained (aside from the lack of jump training) than the rest of the parachute troops. I'd appreciate a pointer to any reference that says otherwise. > Error 2: > The second error is minor, in the Aftermath section it say that the > glider troops 'disarmed the demolition charges'. The demolition > charges had not been primed and the detonators were still in the > nearby blockhouse. This error arises from the movie The Longest Day > where the director thought it would be more exciting if the > detonators were disarmed by the glider troops. While the bridge had been wired for demolition, my understanding was that the the actual demolition charges were found in a building next to the bridge. Can you cite a source for this? Happy to hear and talk about Pegasus Bridge and the 6th Airborne anytime. Thanks, Tim Van Sant P.S. When I was 10 years old it was my favorite, but my God, The Longest Day is a terrible movie! "Use the force, Luke. Oops, I mean, Hold Until Relieved!" ----- Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 09:19:18 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Tebbe's Tigers VC's > VICTORY CONDITIONS: > Prior to the Russian setup the German player selects 2 of the 5 > victory conditions presented below. The German player wins if he > meets the 2 VCs. > > (1) Capture/control the bridge in 7AA6-7AA8. > (2) Capture/control the two stone buildings: 12U5, 10Z6. > (3) Inflict twice as many CVP as received. > (4) Control all of the buildings on board 12. > (5) Control all of the buildings on board 10. I really like this. Life Would Be Better if more scenarios had VC's like this. Harder to do with smaller scenarios, I imagine, but the uncertainty and excitement this creates is great. Tom ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 10:28:01 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: Re: Tebbe's Tigers VC's > From tqr@inel.gov Mon Aug 1 10:22:23 1994 > Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 09:19:18 > From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) > To: asl@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: Tebbe's Tigers VC's > Content-Length: 650 > > > VICTORY CONDITIONS: > > Prior to the Russian setup the German player selects 2 of the 5 > > victory conditions presented below. The German player wins if he > > meets the 2 VCs. > > > > (1) Capture/control the bridge in 7AA6-7AA8. > > (2) Capture/control the two stone buildings: 12U5, 10Z6. > > (3) Inflict twice as many CVP as received. > > (4) Control all of the buildings on board 12. > > (5) Control all of the buildings on board 10. > > > I really like this. Life Would Be Better if more scenarios had VC's like this. > Harder to do with smaller scenarios, I imagine, but the uncertainty and > excitement this creates is great. > > Tom > I agree, but why would I choose conditions 4 or 5, when I could choose 2 instead? I think it would be much easier to control 2 buildings (even if on separate boards) than all the buildings of one board. Will playtesting reveal that this is not true? Matt ----- Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 09:30:40 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: ASL Ladder Report Brian, See? This is what happens when the List gets too quiet for too long. The natives get, well, kinda weird. Tom > Return-Path: > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 94 20:23:33 EDT > From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) > To: tqr@inel.gov > Subject: ASL Ladder > > Tuomi, > > Got in an impromtu FTF ladder game against Alan Bills today. We crushed > the stranded Fanatic hun invaders in To The Rescue before their Nazi > Fascist Colonel Klink Look-Alike killer stacks could break through. Then > we killed the entire southern Nazi Hun running-dog bastard flank of the > attacking force for kicks. That's the last time they send in a whole > company to rescue a few trapped pieces of human bait. > > Capt. Davdiktczh Riptonovich > First People's Popsk-Oy-Matskvic Guards Company > ----- Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 10:00:57 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Tebbe's Tigers VC's Brian sez: > Damn near impossible to balance, as well, since you have to play wiht > the Attacker going for all combinations of the VC. > > For example, it may be impossible for the attacker to take the bridge > AND to control all the buildings on board 12, but quite easy to inflict 2x > CVP and take the 12u5 and 10z6 buildings. > > See? It is too simple for a "perfect" solution to occur with this > many mixed variables. > Yeah, OK. Guess you'd have to playtest this as much as reasonable, and then trust that the (oh God here comes some math on a Monday) 5+4+3+2=14 combinations for 2 of the 5 VC options are balanced enough. Still think it's worth trying, for the fun factor alone. Put this in the "too big to balance" category and off you go. > I kinda like the "attacker chooses one of three prior to play" type > of scenarios, as he will eventually have to tip his hand to the defender then > the real fun starts. > Yep, that's preferable to the "Attacker chooses 1 of 1" kinds of VC's that we commonly see. Tom ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 12:12:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Avaloncon >>Panzers Marsch! (Russians) >> > This looks fun, but tough on the Russians; if anybody can persuade > me otherwise this will be my choice. I'll take the Russians any time in this one. Those Panthers aren't all that tough. This scenario goes from being pro-German to pro-Russian the more playings you give it. A great spot for a T34/85 will almost guarantee a Panther kill on any that goes over the bridge, underbelly shots with the 57LL on any Panther crossing the stream, and nasty infantry shots at any Germans coming out of the woods/stream makes for a real nasty situation for the Germans. I would rate this one even. ----- Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 10:08:24 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Favorites > > ID Scenario Name # of Votes > === ============= ========== > ASL 4 Commissar's House 9 > E Hill 621 8 > OK folks. What IS it with Commissar's House that people love so much? The firepower? That why Hill 621 is in there too? Is this just a psychological thing, people making up for various physical under-achievements by loading up on firepower? Some would say that the true essence of the game lies in the lower half of the IFT, and that anything over 16 FP is a grotesque abomination of nature. Some would say. Tom True Essence Sold Here ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 12:22:44 -0400 From: rlyon@pms157.pms.ford.com (Rob Lyon) Subject: G.O.Y.A. Guys, I played GOYA (G18?) yesterday as the amis where I pretty much walked through the cratered german defenses and elicited an abdication in turn 3 (of 11.5 turn game). I had broken, disrupted or eliminated > 50% of his units at the cost of only five (of 26) ready-to-rally broken MMC and a broken 81mm mortar. While the lesson learned is not to set up the germans within LOS of the 81mm mortars, I have to wonder what other people have thought of this scenario. My opponent was none too happy with the scenario (in my defense, he chose it) and I am playing the Germans in it this coming weekend to make him feel better (THAT'S diplomacy). What I was planning on doing was setting my guys up out of mortar LOS and digging foxholes near the VC buildings like mad for the first two turns (winter EC makes my foxholes 4 or less) and deploying conscript squads so that by the third turn I should have two (six squads digging for two turns) foxholes with 447s and 12 (4 at setup + avg of 4 a turn) conscript HS to panzerfaust him to death inside the buildings. It may appear that I am giving the Americans a free ride onto the german's board, but believe me, the mortars can shut down any frontal proactive defense the germans might come up with ("White Phosphorous is my middle name..."). Do you guys think the americans have a sure thing winning in the remaining 7 turns? I got 40 PF, I ought to be able to do something... ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 10:27:31 -0600 (MDT) From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" Subject: Re: Tebbe's Tigers VC's Incidently, I asked Jeff if the Germans had to let the Soviets which 2 he was trying for and he quickly responded that the Germans should secretly record which victory conditions he/she were seeking until the end of the game. Thanks Jeff ----- From: JJC%MPA15C@MPA15AB.mv-oc.Unisys.COM Date: 01 AUG 94 09:47 Subject: Re: ITALIAN BROTHERS - ASL >A11.6 "CC vs AN AFV.: In order for a MMC to advance into a >Location containing a manned Known enemy AFV, it must first >pass a PAATC (failure of which causes the unit to become >pinned) ... Once in the same Location with an enemy AFV >during the CCPh, no further PAATC is necessary in order to >attack it during the CC." >In addition to the above, using Reaction Fire requires a >PAATC, but otherwise a PAATC is not necessary. Yes, we saw that. But elsewhere (I don't have my RB handy...) we saw rules to the effect that a PAATC must be passed each phase (i.e. each game turn). Are we off base on this one? Jim Cotugno Languages Continuation MV (714)380-5340 (net**2 656-5340) internet: jjc@mpa15c.mv-oc.unisys.com "Opinions Personal, Facts Suspect" ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 00:50:20 EDT Subject: Re: Tebbe's Tigers VC's >> > VICTORY CONDITIONS: >> > Prior to the Russian setup the German player selects 2 of the 5 >> > victory conditions presented below. The German player wins if he >> > meets the 2 VCs. >> > >> > (1) Capture/control the bridge in 7AA6-7AA8. >> > (2) Capture/control the two stone buildings: 12U5, 10Z6. >> > (3) Inflict twice as many CVP as received. >> > (4) Control all of the buildings on board 12. >> > (5) Control all of the buildings on board 10. >> >> I really like this. Life Would Be Better if more scenarios had VC's like this. >> Harder to do with smaller scenarios, I imagine, but the uncertainty and >> excitement this creates is great. Tom, I had followed a thread from the net when I was making the VC for this scenario. It seems more realistic to have a selection of VC when possible. Also, as Tom Hundsdorfer queried: Does the German show the Russian the selections or secretly record them for the end of the game? I'd say most certainly keep them secret till the end. >I agree, but why would I choose conditions 4 or 5, when I could choose 2 >instead? I think it would be much easier to control 2 buildings (even if >on separate boards) than all the buildings of one board. Will playtesting >reveal that this is not true? Good point Matt, but have you looked at the boards? I think the village on board 12 is easier to take than that on board 10. Admittedly one could opt to take all buildings on one board and the other building to win (VC 2 & 5). ERRATA: The PzIIIM should be PzIIIN which were typically attached to Tiger platoons for additional anti-infantry support. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- From: Bruno NITROSSO Subject: RE: Avaloncon (Panzer March!) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 19:04:16 METDST > >>Panzers Marsch! (Russians) > I'll take the Russians any time in this one. Those Panthers aren't all that > tough. This scenario goes from being pro-German to pro-Russian the more > playings you give it. A great spot for a T34/85 will almost guarantee a > Panther kill on any that goes over the bridge, underbelly shots with the > 57LL on any Panther crossing the stream, and nasty infantry shots at any > Germans coming out of the woods/stream makes for a real nasty situation for > the Germans. You forgot about mortar! I played that one last week (I did not submit my result to the Record, oops) and my russian opponent manage to immobilize one of my panther with the mortar! Nasty... He got lucky though. This brings one point on rules : C.4 says ordnance area fire does NOT get halved but a +2 DRM applies to the TH. Further on C9.5 says, talking about mortars CH that : "Instead of halving the FP of a mortar for a hit on the Area Target Type, that fire is instead doubled for a CH ". ?? So, FP is halved just for mortars? FOr all guns despite C.4? None of the above???? I m clueless here but in our play we did not halve the mortar FP and my panther got immob with a 3 DR result. sight... -Bruno ----- From: sclarke@netcom.com (Scott Clarke) Subject: Re: Favorites Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 10:28:43 -0700 (PDT) > > OK folks. What IS it with Commissar's House that people love so much? The > firepower? That why Hill 621 is in there too? Is this just a psychological > thing, people making up for various physical under-achievements by loading up on > firepower? > > Some would say that the true essence of the game lies in the lower half of the > IFT, and that anything over 16 FP is a grotesque abomination of nature. Some > would say. > > Tom > True Essence Sold Here > Personally I would have to agree somewhat with Tom here. Although the east front stuff is among my favorites, I like the early war scenarios the most, with the Allied minor countries and the French. The French module IMO had the best scenarios of a module taken as a whole. ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 01:24:18 EDT Subject: Re: List of Favorites >It s not clear to me : am I to pick up 10 amongst the first 30? >Is that what you meant? No, pick 10 out of the list of 110. I'm after a bigger point spread than Darren got last time. I want to reduce ties, get a big sample size; you know, do the things sadisticians like to do! BTW, GOOD WORK DARREN! I'm envisioning a HALL of FAME list. I'd also like to get copies of all of the scenarios on the last! Cheers, Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 01:21:04 EDT Subject: Re: Tebbe's Tigers VC's One argument for having more than 1-2 VC is to provide better balance especially against unequal players. A good player playing a novice might select the more difficult VC while the novice might select the easier VC. Aussie Rules (and I don't mean football :-) could have VC incorporated into the balance (G2: Take all buildings on board 10). Lastly, the Russian set up could be too difficult to balance on the basis of 5 separate VC. One could balance this with reinforcements or by establishing separate VC for the Russians. (I.e., both sides get VC to pick from and if both obtain their VC the game is a draw.) Say something like: Prior to play the Russian must select 2 VC out 5. (1) Designate a hex as a command post. That hex must remain in Russian control to the end of the game. (2) Keep control of the bridge. (3) Inflict at least 1:1 casualties on the Deutschies. (4) Retain control of the 'factory' 10Z5(?). ETC. Of course we've now made it more difficult to establish 'balance' in the classical sense and have to get that 'gut feeling' of playability. Ps. Glad to see some discussion on this as other designers may want to consider multiple VC as SOP. Cheers, >Brian sez: >> Damn near impossible to balance, as well, since you have to play wiht >> the Attacker going for all combinations of the VC. >> >> For example, it may be impossible for the attacker to take the bridge >> AND to control all the buildings on board 12, but quite easy to inflict 2x >> CVP and take the 12u5 and 10z6 buildings. >> >> See? It is too simple for a "perfect" solution to occur with this >> many mixed variables. >> > >Yeah, OK. Guess you'd have to playtest this as much as reasonable, and then >trust that the (oh God here comes some math on a Monday) 5+4+3+2=14 combinations >for 2 of the 5 VC options are balanced enough. Still think it's worth trying, >for the fun factor alone. Put this in the "too big to balance" category and off >you go. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 12:28:13 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Setup Abandoned? I asked a week or so ago about whether or not you could set up Abandoned/Scrounged/armament removed from vehicles? I haven't been able to find it myself nor have I seen a response. cheers, mike ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 15:50:01 AST Subject: ASL Annual '90 I finally tracked down a copy of the '90 Annual :-). I even got it discounted since the store just couldn't sell it. And when I finally got around to reading it (1300 km and a speeding ticket later, don't ask), I found out the stupid thing had been mangled in the collating stage. : pages 9 to 16 and 49 to 56 have at least one line missing at the bottom. Trying to figure out what that missing line may have been is fun, but not when it's a SSR!!! So, any charitable soul out there who could Xerox these for me and mail them. In return, you get eternal gratitude and I'll pick up the tab for mailing them Unbent, Unfolded and Unmangled. Email me first, though, as I'd hate to receive (and pay these days outrageous postage on) more than a set of Xerox. BTW, can anybody refresh my memory, what's AH's email address? Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Date: Mon, 01 Aug 1994 15:04:24 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: RB I turn 1 & some questions Hi. Well, my gaming team has decided to start another RB Campaign Game 3 (I know, we're all masochists!). When we firsdt played it, we ended on Campaign Date 3, after the russkies (me) had turned the playing field into a WW1 trench system: the Germans were never able to breach the factory area, and, after I got out a good counter attack on the russian right flank, and drove the Germans to the map edge, they resigned. We have played the opening scenario a number of times, and it seems that the Germans had always gotten stomped. Anyway, this time I was on the German team, and we decided to purchase a sturm coy + a 100+mm OBA with offboard observer. I laso purchased 1 pt of FFP and bought twenty dummy counters. Theplan was to fake a majoe assault on the german right flank (near the railroad tracks), and, after waiting for the russian to shift in that direction, to hit hard on the left flank. Luck was with the germans on a couple of crucial rolls. We rolled a "3" and a "5" on the sturm leadership rolls, netting us a 10-2 and a 10-3! The russians had purchased a 80+mm OBA, but rolled a "12" on their first radio contact! I know it will be back tomorrow, but it enabled us to get across that dangerous open area in the north without having to worry about oba fire harrasing us. Of course, no plan survives the battle field. Because of a number of circumstances, the main assault ended up on the middle of his line. Assisted by the 10-3 on a stack of 4-6-7's w/ 1 HMG and 2 MMG (29 pts -3 attack), as well as ample smoke barrages from out 80+OBA and continuous 100+mm FFE attacks, we crossed the road and took the rubble in J5 and K6, then took the two adjacent buildings, including M6, which had been a real strongpoint for me when I was the russians. The assault on the left flank was able to extend the perimeter out to the cliff face overlooking the river, though there was little depth (only one or two hexes. We did take building Z2. That whole side was a real see-saw battle, but the fact that we always had a least a little bit of mobile reserves allowed us to enter those precious one or two squads at those moments where the whole battle hung in balance (I will always keep a mobile reserve! Except, of course, when I don't :). We were doing really well, and foolishly, tried to bite off a little more than we could chew after that. There were only 1 or 2 more turns left, and I tried to make a stab at capturing building I8 and I9. That resulted in some useless german losses. More painful, a russian H-H CC attack in the C9 wooden rubble area destroyed an entire platoon of sturm, along with a 9-1 leader and _2_ heroes. He lost 2 5-2-7's and a hero (yes: a russian HOB which did not result in a berserked squad!). So what had been a day of good gains and a good casualty ratio turned into a day of good gains and a mediocer casualty ratio (he lost 1 coy, We lost 1 coy of sturm). We took 22 stone locations, so the victory was ours. For now. Anyway, here is my question. In the process of taking building M6, hex N5 became rubbled. In addition, Hex O7 in the factory rubbled and fell into the street (N6). It now appears that there is a gaping hole in the side of the factory. Obviously, a unit in the first level of M6 can see over the rubble into P7. The question is, what is the TEM? Is it +3 because they are in a factory, or is it +1, since the attack would be coming from a direction that is newly exposed to fire which would be +1 from the adjacent location. (o7 rubble). I could not find a reference to this. Regards Davidb ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 15:20:32 +0500 From: farrell@hybrid.gsfc.nasa.gov (Chris Farrell) Subject: Re: Firepower >>Is this just a psychological >>thing, people making up for various physical under-achievements by loading up >>on firepower? > > Personally I would have to agree somewhat with Tom here. Although the > east front stuff is among my favorites, I like the early war scenarios > the most, with the Allied minor countries and the French. The French module > IMO had the best scenarios of a module taken as a whole. Do not forget West of Alemain! As much as I like individual scenarios from other modules, I really think WoA has the best. Who can turn down Khamsin and Point of No Return? No losers in that bunch, and it's a very good mix (unlike TLH, which has some good ones, but they are all so similar). Still, CdG is probably my second-favorite. I wish there were more good PTO scenarios. You wanna talk rediculous firepower? Hey, RB is child's play. These people who talk about so-called "killer" stacks with 3 heavies and 3 mediums tire me. I mean, really, those three mediums only have an ROF of 2. How do they actually expect to accomplish anything? Leeme tell you about a KGP scenario I was playing. There was this German 76L AT gun on a hill that was irritating me profoundly. OK, 100mm OBA. Not enough? Kick in the 36(+3) attack using only weapons with an ROF of 3 (3x.50-cal, 2xHMG). Still alive? OK, well, I've got another 36 here just in case. And if that isn't enough we've got a couple other 24s and the 60mm mortars. And that's just in one section of the front. A 9-1 in a foxhole was subjected to a flamethrower and multiple 36's before being rendered particulate matter. The other flank is a little weaker, it only has a couple of 24's and 30's. What's the TEM? Who cares ... KGP is a good scenario for people who feel inadequate, I guess. Makes me long for the "good old days" on the eastern front, when men were expendable, and you could actually move in LOS without being instantly vaporized. Hell, in Stalingrad, you might actually survive a couple turns in LOS, and you might be able to get adjacent and do some CC. Might I respectfully request that AH *never* do a HASL with the Marines without first clearing up a few minor problems? Back when I finished my first RG CG, I figured it would be about a year before I could face down another German-Russian scenario. I think it'll be about 2 years before I can face down another German-US Battle of the Bulge scenario. Chris ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 12:45:15 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: RE: LOS, take...5? > From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" > Pretty clear, huh? :-) > > So, since the 1-2-3 vertex is the only portion of the walls which COULD > block LOS, and it is prevented from doing so by B9.2, LOS must be clear. > Not particularly the answer I was looking for either, but lets not > confuse logic and the ASLRB. Yeah, I saw that too when I finally looked in the book. And since this LOS occurs as early (in production sequence) as Board 2, I'm sure the playtesters/designers were aware of it, and meant for the LOS to be clear. Dave ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 15:40:32 EDT Subject: Re: Avaloncon I'm staying Sunday night and am looking for someone interested in grinding through Bloody Red Beach on Sunday. If someones interested, look me up. Alan Bills ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 15:50:34 EDT Subject: RE: ASL Ladder Report As all could see, I am singlehandedly elevating Capt. Davdiktczh Riptonovich up the ladder. After losing my last 4 games (2 to the Captain) my mental state is not doing so well. At least I'm in the novice group at Avaloncon. Alan Bills ----- Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 12:31:40 EST From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu Subject: Whatever happened to the Favorite Scenarios Listing? Howdy Yall, A couple of weeks ago somebody was making a compilation of the top five favorite scenarios. Many people responded. Then the list never got updated beyond the first day's responses. Was there an updated listing? Just curious. Mike Clay ----- Subject: RE: ITALIAN BROTHERS - AS From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 15:04:00 -0640 Howdy, JJC%MPA15C@MPA15AB.mv-oc.Unisys.COM writes: >>A11.6 "CC vs AN AFV.: In order for a MMC to advance into a >>Location containing a manned Known enemy AFV, it must first >>pass a PAATC (failure of which causes the unit to become >>pinned) ... Once in the same Location with an enemy AFV >>during the CCPh, no further PAATC is necessary in order to >>attack it during the CC." >>In addition to the above, using Reaction Fire requires a >>PAATC, but otherwise a PAATC is not necessary. >Yes, we saw that. But elsewhere (I don't have my RB handy...) we saw >rules to the effect that a PAATC must be passed each phase (i.e. each game >turn). Are we off base on this one? I don't know of any rule like that, but I got caught off base the other day saying that, so I won't assert it with positive finality :-) The relevent sections I know of are A11.6 which I quoted, and D7, OVR and in particular Reaction Fire. D7.21 has a quick sentence on the subject: D7.27 CC Reaction Fire: "A DEFENDER need not pass more than one PAATC to attack the same vehicle more than once during the same (A.15) phase." Perhaps you mis-read this section or read it as applying to CC in the CCPh as well? It is only applicable to CC Reaction Fire, and it says that if, for instance, a unit passes a PAATC to use CC Reaction Fire, and the vehicle leaves the hex and returns, it can be attacked again by the unit which passed the PAATC using CC Reaction Fire without taking another PAATC. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 16:02:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: RE: Panzer Marsch! What is the great spot for a T34/85? I've only played this once. I lost a Panther to a CH, but did not have to cross any stream hexes. I guess if I was the Ruskies I might go for setting up a T34 in a building (that isn't precluded by an SSR is it?) An interesting place for the 57LL (setup HIP) seems to be that lone clump of trees to the SE (?) on the Russian setup board. ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 12:39:21 EST From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu Subject: Area fire, target size for mortars About two days ago I posted what I thought was an answer to this thread. My answer was that light mortars are considered SW and therefore do not get target size modifiers when receiving fire. Since then, NOBODY has commented. I had assumed that nobody responded becuase of a convention, natural disaster somewhere, Nuclear holocaust, because I haven't gotten any ASL mail in a couple days. That is very unusual. I assumed there was a good reason for it. Now because of the message that Brian just posted, I realize that I'm still connected and the rest of the world didn't get nuked. So, in the spirit of getting some discussion going - ANY DISCUSSION GOING - were there any final comments on this thread? Mike Clay ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 15:51:54 -0600 (MDT) From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" Subject: RE: LOS, take...5? (fwd) Sorry gang, but I posted this to (Soon to be) Major Dave this morning (after extensive research) and left everyone else out, so when you got Dave's message this afternoon, you are probably going: Huh? This is part of the ongoing struggle which some of us seem to be having with Walls, Hexes, vertices and THE LAW: I can't draw cool mapboards with aasci characters like Dave, so you'll have to refer back to his drawing or take my word that we were discussing a wall/hedge which extended out all three directions from a vertex: Here it is: RULES QUOTES: B9.1 The thick terraine depiction, as well as the hexside itself (INCLUSIVE OF VERTICES), represents the wall/hedge and will affect any LOS through it... Which would seem to indicate that LOS is blocked because it is traced throught the 1-2-3 vertex. HOWEVER... B9.2 Walls and hedges are half level obstacles to LOS even if they lie lengthwised (On a hexspine) exactly along a LOS unless the viewing/target hex is formed by that hexside/hexspine. This is true even if the hexspine to/from the target firing hex also directly connects with OTHER WALL/HEDGE VERICES WHICH ARE NOT PART OF EITHER THE FIRER/TARGET HEX. Pretty clear, huh? :-) So, since the 1-2-3 vertex is the only portion of the walls which COULD block LOS, and it is prevented from doing so by B9.2, LOS must be clear. Not particularly the answer I was looking for either, but lets not confuse logic and the ASLRB. Tim "And I thought the Code of Federal Regulations was confusing" Hundsdorfer ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 19:01:33 AST Subject: Rule book errata When I bought my ASL rulebook way back when (oops, 1985, it says here :) I had two coupons for rulebook errata. I sent the first one and got the 1987 errat to chapters A and B. Never sent the second one (a bit late now, I read {not valid after sometime in 1991 or so :( }. I have since found the following in game modules: Format: ChapterPage.Year_of_errata A17.92 and A29.92 in Croix de Guerre B29.91 in some module I can't recall B31.92 in Croix de Guerre (see those coupons just went poof) Nothing in chapter C D1.91 E25.90 F1.92 also in Croix de Guerre Am I missing anything? I can't believe just one page of errata for both chapters C and D. Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 19:03:35 AST Subject: ASL '90, thank you all Thanks guys, I already got a winner in my "Win my eternal gratitude" contest. THis sure is a great bunch of very generous people. Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- From: BArcher@aol.com Date: Mon, 01 Aug 94 19:40:49 EDT Subject: Re: Favorites >From: sclarke@netcom.com > >> >> OK folks. What IS it with Commissar's House that people love so much? The >> firepower? That why Hill 621 is in there too? Is this just a psychological >> thing, people making up for various physical under-achievements by loading >> up on firepower? >> Some would say that the true essence of the game lies in the lower half of >> the IFT, and that anything over 16 FP is a grotesque abomination of nature. >> >> Tom >> > The French module IMO had the best scenarios of a module taken as a whole. Hill 621 and the Commissar's House have nothing to do with each other. CH is just another city slugfest :) , but 621 is a game of maneuver and tactics, especially for the Germans. I just finished 621 as the Germans and did not use a single firegroup or stack any infantry. By the end of turn 5 the plethora of 4(-2) and 2(-2) shots, with an occasional HMG from hell, had reduced the Russians to about 8 good order squads, not counting the reinforcements that just entered. The Germans have such a tough situation, running away but having to stop and hold all too soon. Trying to hold a long thin line until sufficient reinforcements arrive to counterattack. And you have to do it againist both armor and infantry, either of which can swamp your defenses. Hill 621 is a great scenario, I just wish there were more countryside scenarios :) Are there any balanced French scenarios? :) Bill ----- Subject: RE: Avaloncon (Panzer Mar From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 19:16:00 -0640 Howdy, Bruno NITROSSO writes: > C.4 says ordnance area fire does NOT get halved but a +2 DRM > applies to the TH. Further on C9.5 says, talking about > mortars CH that : "Instead of halving the FP of a mortar > for a hit on the Area Target Type, that fire is instead > doubled for a CH ". ?? So, FP is halved just for mortars? > FOr all guns despite C.4? None of the above???? I m > clueless here but in our play we did not halve the mortar > FP and my panther got immob with a 3 DR result. sight... There is a subtlety here that took me many months to understand, the difference between "area fire" and ordnance fire using the "Area Target Type." Even though both have similar names and similar effects involving halving FP, the Area Target Type and Area Fire are different. Ordnance firing using the Area Target Type is not using Area Fire. Area Fire is the halving of FP on the IFT for various reasons, the most common of which are firing in the AFPh and firing from bad terrain such as marsh or stream bed. The Area Target Type allows Ordnance to fire at all Locations in a hex. C.4 does not apply to the Area Target Type per se (in fact, I don't know of any situation where C.4 (Ordnance using Area Fire) applies. All the situations where Area Fire applies for non-Ordnance, there is a separate TH modifier (dash, AFPh fire) or Ordnance can't fire (swamp, etc). Perhaps someone could enlighten us.). When you fire on the Area Target Type, case K is N/A (unless the target is concealed, or there is some reason for area fire I'm not aware of that isn't on the TH table). The FP for the Ordnance on the IFT is halved, unless there is a CH, in which case the FP is doubled instead. For example, if the FP is 6 normally (for a 50mm MTR), use 3 FP on the IFT when a unit is hit normally with the Area Target Type and 12 for units hit by a CH. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 20:47:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Area fire, target size for mortars In message Fri, 29 Jul 1994 12:39:21 EST, mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes: > About two days ago I posted what I thought was an answer to this thread. > My answer was that light mortars are considered SW and therefore do not > get target size modifiers when receiving fire. Well, Mike, I think you are correct. They are not vehicles nor are they Guns so Case P is NA when shooting _at_ light mortars or any SW for that matter. ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 20:48:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Rule book errata In message Mon, 1 Aug 1994 19:01:33 AST, "Alain Chabot" writes: > Am I missing anything? I can't believe just one page of errata for > both chapters C and D. You're missing all the '89 erratta. Didn't come in a module if I am not mistaken. ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 21:13:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Panzer Marsch! In message Mon, 1 Aug 1994 16:02:15 -0400 (EDT), Paul F Ferraro writes: > What is the great spot for a T34/85? And others replied about the spot for the T34/85. I like P4 CA:4. Put the leader in him, make him CE, boresight the hex and the TH for a Panther moving onto the bridge is... Range 12 = 8, +4 (motion and little MPs in LOS), -2 BS, -1 Size, +1 TEM, -1 leader = 7 to hit minimum. This is a side shot, too. Foom! Someone mentioned AFVs being Hull Down while on a bridge but I couldn't find anything to that effect. If I am wrong here, someone please point me to a rule. > An interesting place for the 57LL (setup HIP) seems to be that lone clump > of trees to the SE (?) on the Russian setup board. I like either C9 or D8. Don't know which I like better yet. I alslo like the mortar on that side to try and catch some halftrack as it comes through. At any rate, I like this little scenario. Now that I've given away my little secrets, I'll bet I hook up with someone who will use them against me at DonCon. ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 23:00:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: RE: Panzer Marsch! I had a tentative setup for the Russians in _Panzer Marsch._ After rereading some rules I'm not so sure about parts of it now but here goes: 5GG10: 4-5-8, 50_MTR (Bore 5U4), Foxhole 1I8 4-5-8, HMG (Bore 5Y8), 9-1, Foxhole 5Z10 4-5-8, LMG 5X10 6-2-8, ATR 5V10 4-5-8 1I7 6-2-8 1K8 ?? 1H9 ?? 1J9 8-0 1C9 2-2-8, 57LL ATG (D9,C10) (Bore 5Y9) 5T10 T34/85, 8-1 (Bore 5Y9) 1A7 T34/85 (Bore 5Y9) - goes through on my boards! The mortar is exposed but the tradeoff comes with its LOS and attack potential. I debated putting the HMG here for the same reasons but the VC are in the buildings. The ATR and LMG are positioned around the bridge to get potential shots on the HTs and charging infantry. The defense is diffuse by nature of the terrain, but perhaps its too diffuse. The T34 in 1A7 is exposed. It might be better in 1M9 (bore 5Y9). I hadn't thought to check 1P4 but looks like an even better spot, great place too. Rules question: if the panthers enter the stream is the bog check DR 8 or 9 [+1 (normal ground pressure) +1 (abrupt elevation change) +1 (exiting a deep stream) +1 soft ground?]? Do they only take the check on exiting the stream, not on entering, and not on exiting a stream to enter another stream hex? Are streams like marshes in that vehicles take bog checks if adjacent and not on roads (i.e., soft ground)? Is this a left over from SL? ----- Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 21:13:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Paratroop Reference To all: I've noticed a lot of talk about Paratroop operations/units/equipment in the last couple months on the DL. If anyone is interested, I downloaded this American Government publication from an archive on just such. It was written my German Generals after the war for the Dept. of Defense and covers all facets of Paratroop operations, with references to specific actions, as learned by the Germans during WW II. If anyone wants a copy, I think it is 40 or 50 pgs. if I recall, then send your request along the pipeline and I'll make sure you get a copy. Darren Gour ----- Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 14:26:54 EDT From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu Subject: Squad Strength Factors I've got a question about squad strength factors. I'm wondering what the designers of ASL had in their minds when the assigned the firepower ratings to squads. Lets consider the firepower of a russian rifle squad, guards squad, american rifle squad, and the german rifle, SS, and combat engineer squads. I am aware of the design philosophy that says that training affects the strength factor, because range and firepower can be rationalized to a degree by the man, and not what he is armed with. In other words, you've got to be willing to squeeze the trigger and trade shots with the enemy, something that conscripts don't like to do very much. Lets consider the russians first. The rifle squads are armed with bolt-action rifles. They get four firepower (FP) and four range. The guards are armed with sub-machine guns. They get six FP and a shorter range of two hexes. The guards also can move and lay down decent firepower, as witnessed by their assault fire capability. This all makes perfect sense to me. Now we consider the americans. They get a six FP and range. They get the same firepower as the guards, and a long range to boot. Since they are armed with M1 Garand rifles, a superb semi- automatic weapon of great accuracy, I can agree that they should get better range than the russians and excellent firepower also. Then again, the american squads have Browning Automatic Rifles (BAR's) too, which was a fully automatic clip-fed weapon, which gave the american squad an inherent light machine of sorts. Further, the americans get assault fire capability, no doubt due to being equipped with the rapid-fire semi-automatic weapons. I can rationalize everything thus far. But I've got some problems with the german squads. First, lets consider the line squads. They get four firepower, six range, and no assault fire capability. What are these guys armed with? Bolt action rifles seems to be the answer, as they get the same FP as a russian squad, and less than an american squad. The SS get six FP, five range, and assault fire in 44-45. If they are considered to be armed with SturmGewehr 44's in 1944-45, then I can understand everything. But how about 1939-43? The SS in these years have some pretty awesome capabilities compared to regular Heer rifle squads. Are they armed with semiautomatic weapons like the Mauser Gewehr 41(M), Walther Gewehr 41(W), and the Gewehr 43? How about note A31? Do the pre '44 SS have bolt-action rifles? Now we will discuss the 5-4-8's. They are to be used in 1944-45 scenarios only. They get assault fire. What type of squad do these guys represent? What are they armed with? Bolt-action rifles? Semi-automatic rifles? Some MP 40's mixed in? I'm really confused how you can rationalize this particular strength factor. Lastly, we have the combat engineers. They have a strength factor of 8-3-8 and assault fire capability. This seems to indicate a force armed with mostly MP 40's, plus maybe a few rifles of some sort throw in the mix. Anybody got an opinion about what these guys are armed with? Anybody else got an opinion? Thanks. Mike Clay ----- From: w.smith93@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 02:59:00 UTC Subject: Area Fire / Area TT JR writes: > Area Fire is the halving of FP on the IFT for various reasons, the most > common of which are firing in the AFPh and firing from bad terrain such > as marsh or stream bed. The Area Target Type allows Ordnance to fire at > all Locations in a hex. C.4 does not apply to the Area Target > Type per se (in fact, I don't know of any situation where C.4 (Ordnance > using Area Fire) applies. All the situations where Area Fire applies > for non-Ordnance, there is a separate TH modifier (dash, AFPh fire) or > Ordnance can't fire (swamp, etc). Perhaps someone could enlighten us.). Wouldn't IFE-capable Guns using IFE against Concealed targets apply here? It is still considered Ordnance but it is halved as Area Fire on the IFT rather than the +2 for TH vs "?". Also, IFE attacking in the AFPh, etc. Warren ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 94 10:37:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Favorites Tom asks: > OK folks. What IS it with Commissar's House that people love so much? The > firepower? That why Hill 621 is in there too? Is this just a psychological > thing, people making up for various physical under-achievements by loading up on > firepower? Answer: It's a great slug fest with LOTS of strategy for both sides. Granted, the Russian strategy is all in the setup, but you can really agonize over where to put those trenches (I like the orchards between the Chemist shop and Commissar's House), or how much of your force to throw away trying to defend the Chemist shop (no more than two squads; you ain't gonna hold it baby). For the Germans, it's a puzzle: kind of like finding a rattlesnake in your basement. Let me see, how do I approach this without getting bitten? Both sides have excellent troops, leaders, and SW, all indicative of a fun scenario. I've played this one 5 times, once as the Germans, 4 times as the Russians. (As a somewhat immodest aside, I've won each of those playings.) What a great battle! I think the burden of proof is on the Germans, but if it favors the Russians, it is only by a hairs-breadth. Pioneers with FTs and DCs at 2-hex range is downright brutal. > > Some would say that the true essence of the game lies in the lower half of the > IFT, and that anything over 16 FP is a grotesque abomination of nature. Some > would say. Yes, hmm, well, I sense a flame war brewing here. I think I'll just hunker down in my foxhole for this one. Dade ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 08:05:10 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: Re: Panzer Marsch! Carl, List-folk: Carl wrote: >>Someone mentioned AFVs being Hull Down while on a bridge but I >>couldn't find anything to that effect. If I am wrong here, >>someone please point me to a rule. That was me, in a direct email; for some reason I thought stone bridges behaved like stone walls wrt LOS traced through the bridge depiction. I checked the ASLRB when I got home and discovered I was wrong. A bridge has a +1 TEM to fire traced through the depiction, no hulldown status. So, Carl's placement (and a couple others) for the T34/85 works, and I'll be picking Panzers Marsch after all! Take it easy, JR ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 7:52:59 EDT From: DONALD CARLUCCI Subject: ASL ladder additions Guys, I have a couple of friends here who I play with ftf all the time. They are on the list also. we want to know if our ftf games can be posted to the ladder and we can get rated also. In addition, I'd like to add them to the digest balance database. Could someone email me directly to 'splain how to accomplish this. Thanks. Don C. dcarl@pica.army.mil ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 08:14:09 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: Re: Panzer Marsch! > I like P4 CA:4. Put the leader in him, make him CE, boresight the hex and > the TH for a Panther moving onto the bridge is... > > Range 12 = 8, +4 (motion and little MPs in LOS), -2 BS, -1 Size, +1 TEM, -1 > leader = 7 to hit minimum. This is a side shot, too. Foom! I can tell you from personal experience against Carl that this works pretty good. Nothing like a burning Panther blocking the only road across the gully. But he did forget to talk his under belly shots. :) Chuck ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 08:39:50 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Secret Tips on How to Win Every ASL Scenario Hi, Just thought I'd share my new trick for how to win at ASL: (drumroll): Make all your MC. Preferably by only one or two, so that your opponent gets extremely frustrated. When a pin won't hurt, make 'em exactly. But make 'em all. I'd never seemed to make more than two in a row before, so when a bunch of 7 ML Russians (To The Rescue) absolutely refuses to break under my leadership (the 8-1 and 7-0 on board weren't doing it, so it must have been me :-> ), the smile has to last for days. Tactics? We don' need no steenking tactics! Firepower? Ha! ROF? Overrated. This technique is not recommended for PBEM, though. Dave Ripton ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:05:09 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Re: Secret Tips on How to Win Dave writes... >Hi, > >Just thought I'd share my new trick for how to win at ASL: > >Make all your MC. > >have been me :-> ), the smile has to last for days. Tactics? We don' >need no steenking tactics! Firepower? Ha! ROF? Overrated. This is very true, grasshopper. Let me tell you a story... Summer Wars '93. Brian Youse vs. Bill "FISH" "GROFAZ" Conner. Living Legend. I eye him up across the table, I can take him. Yeah. We argue scenarios for about a half hour. He won't give in and play the desert, where skill is lost amongst the dice, or the PTO where I have the edge on him (IMO) in number of playings. We settle on Pouppeville Exit. Not my choice, too small for my tastes, but it is getting late and Bill used to be a paratrooper (I think). Dice for sides, I get the Krauts; Bill gets his beloved 7-4-7's. He starts in with a prep fire whine of "Oh, the Germans always win this one!". Yeah, right, and my sister beats me at Soldiers of Destruction when I give her the Russians. Can't fool me, Conner, you're setting me up. Then it starts. My 436's live a life of their own, obviously "IN THE ZONE". MC after MC, I dodge 'em all. I take a 3MC, pass it and battle harden. Gen a hero. He comes into CC, nails one of my crews, but it's ok, a 436 grabs the AA gun and goes nuts. Finally, the Smoke clears, a hush is heard. The Germans only lost that crew, and never failed a MC. Fish took one gun, no buildings of consequence, and I never even shot my second AA piece. And he swears to this day that I diced him. Yeah, right. It was tactical skill that won this battle... 8) Roll low, except against me, Brian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Youse, CSC | "Don't look so frightened, | | TPOCC and CIGSS System Admin | this is just a passing phase. | | email: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov | One of my bad days." | | voice: (301) 497-2506 | Pink Floyd | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 11:20:07 -0500 (EST) From: WITEK@suvax1.stetson.edu Subject: Favorites & Newbie ??s Bill wrote asking why there aren't more countryside scenarios; I've been wondering that myself. I've been working my way through the BV scenarios solitaire, and I'm just about to get to YANKS (I have to get "To the Square" and through "The Citadel" first). I've played the PARA scenarios already, and I was looking for a US starter scenario with: a) 1st line US vs. 1st Line Germans; minimal armor/ordnance/special weapons b) no cities (Essay question: "Aachen is a better vacation spot than Stalingrad. Discuss") c) uses boards 1-24 d) not at Night I've got 4 of 6 Annuals and a handful of the early General scenarios. I thought that your basic "hold the hill/take the village" situation would have been one of the more common Western Front occurrences. But NO! You've got yer paratroops, you've got yer Rangers, you've got yer SS and Nazi paras, there's rubbled cities, there's boats, there's pillboxes, and on and on. Much of my (admittedly limited) WWII reading has been chockfull of things like: "Elements of (some basic grunt division) seized the heights around Townville, only to be subjected to a seemingly endless series of counterattacks from (some German grunt division)." I realize that the scenarios are intended to demonstrate the variety and diversity of WWII units, tactics, situations, etc. But I'm surprised that the parts of the system I have access to are so short on countryside fighting between "normal" troops. (Except Russians vs. Finns, of course, which is hardly "normal" in any sense of the word.) So are there lots of General scenarios with basic situations, or are the '90 or '92 Annuals special "Nothing Special" issues? :-) On another issue: Does the FPF NMC trigger HOB? I.e., is the FPF *exactly* like a NMC? Thanks, Rusty (Not really complaining; just wondering) witek@suvax1.stetson.edu ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 07:55:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Favorites > Hill 621 and the Commissar's House have nothing to do with each other. CH is > just another city slugfest :) , but 621 is a game of maneuver and tactics, > especially > for the Germans. I just finished 621 as the Germans and did not use a single No, my friend, I can't agree. While you're right that CH is a slug-fest, it is not singular. You have to PLAN how to hit: strike the enemy where he is weakest and least able to retaliate. If you try to sit tight in a building and trade punches, while your opponent uses ingenuity and tactics you will lose this scenario, regardless of which side you are. Dade ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:48:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Panzer Marsch! In message Tue, 2 Aug 94 08:14:09 -0400, Chuck Powers writes: >> I like P4 CA:4. Put the leader in him, make him CE, boresight the hex >> and the TH for a Panther moving onto the bridge is... > > I can tell you from personal experience against Carl that this works > pretty good. Nothing like a burning Panther blocking the only road > across the gully. It sure didn't hurt my cause any. :-) > But he did forget to talk his under belly shots. :) Ahh, but I didn't need 'em! :-) (Actually, it ended up fairly close since I had to contend with those two Panthers that came across the stream. Never did get a good immobilization shot on them...lots of shots, none that worked, if I remember correctly. ----- Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 11:54:07 -0500 (EST) From: WITEK@suvax1.stetson.edu Subject: Poles as Russians Hey guys, I've just been playing "Dash for the Bridge" and "To the Square" solo, and it suddenly occurred to me: Are Poles (and perhaps other nationalities in Russian uniforms) treated as Russians for the purposes of SS capabilities; i.e. Poles don't accept SS surrender either? I've been assuming they were treated as Russian for all purposes. Rusty (yes, "Witek" is a Polish name) witek@suvax1.stetson.edu ----- Date: 2 Aug 1994 12:13:50 U From: "William Cirillo" Subject: Scenario Listing? Subject: Time:11:19 AM OFFICE MEMO Scenario Listing? Date:8/2/94 ASLer's, I am attempting to locate certain ASL scenarios in back issues of various magazines and fanzines, but am lacking in info. Is there a listing someplace on that net that cross-references scenario ID with initial publication source? (e.g. What issue of the General was Hube's Pocket, ID - G, published in?) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bill Cirillo w.m.cirillo@larc.nasa.gov ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:17:47 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Poles as Russians > Hey guys, > > I've just been playing "Dash for the Bridge" and "To the Square" solo, > and it suddenly occurred to me: > > Are Poles (and perhaps other nationalities in Russian uniforms) treated as > Russians for the purposes of SS capabilities; i.e. Poles don't accept SS > surrender either? > > I've been assuming they were treated as Russian for all purposes. Yes, also Poles and Russians in German (or SS) uniforms are treated as Germans (or SS) for all purposes. Fred > > Rusty (yes, "Witek" is a Polish name) > witek@suvax1.stetson.edu > > ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 00:32:37 EDT Subject: Re: Favorites & Newbie ??s Rusty writes that it is hard to find scenarios that meet the following criteria: a) 1st line US vs. 1st Line Germans; minimal armor/ordnance/ special weapons b) no cities (Essay question: "Aachen is a better vacation spot thanStalingrad. Discuss") c) uses boards 1-24 d) not at Night He's right, but there are many scenarios that are purely "outdoors" and not in buildings. Most of these scenarios have a mix of armor and elite squads but that's usually where the action is and consequently where much of the writing is concentrated. Also, I like scenarios with heavy, HEAVY ARMOR and lots of Nuke 'em type toys! Too my misfortune, I don't play many of the purely infantry scenarios. I want MASSIVE firepower and destruction! That's why scenarios like Commissar's House and those in Streets of Fire appeal to me. Rusty (and others) what about: Defiance on Hill 30 Midnight Stroll -night Under the Noel Trees -armor Mad Minute -armor All of the Hedgerow Hell Scenarios Repulsed Clay Pigeons They're Coming King of the Hill Annual - Tussle at Thomashof Niscemi Biscari Highway and some others. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:45:31 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: Commisar's House > From dade_caria > Tom asks: > > > OK folks. What IS it with Commissar's House that people love so much? The > > firepower? That why Hill 621 is in there too? Is this just a psychological > > thing, people making up for various physical under-achievements by loading up > on > > firepower? > > Answer: It's a great slug fest with LOTS of strategy for both sides. Granted, > the Russian strategy is all in the setup, but you can really agonize over where > to put those trenches (I like the orchards between the Chemist shop and > Commissar's House), or how much of your force to throw away trying to defend > the Chemist shop (no more than two squads; you ain't gonna hold it baby). All this talk about Commissar's House has got me ready to try the RB version. In reading the SSRs, it gives a perimeter along one of the roads. Is this the Russian Perimeter? Normally, each side has a perimeter in RB. Please explain to me where the Russians and Germans are allowed to set up. If it's a perimeter for both and the russians don't set up in the road, can the Germans? Thanks for your help. Don Hancock ----- Subject: Area Fire / Area TT From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 12:18:00 -0640 Howdy, w.smith93@genie.geis.com writes: [Is there a situation with Ordnance using Area Fire?] >Wouldn't IFE-capable Guns using IFE against Concealed targets apply here? >It is still considered Ordnance but it is halved as Area Fire on the IFT >rather than the +2 for TH vs "?". Also, IFE attacking in the AFPh, etc. No, using IFE makes that shot a non-Ordnance shot. Ordnance is defined as a weapon/attack that uses the TH table. See C.2 for the full details, but essentially it says, "the same weapon may or may not be considered ordnance depending on its use." So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: RE: Panzer Marsch! From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 12:18:00 -0640 Howdy, Jeff Shields writes: >Rules question: if the panthers enter the stream is the bog check >DR 8 or 9 [+1 (normal ground pressure) +1 (abrupt elevation >change) +1 (exiting a deep stream) +1 soft ground?]? Do they >only take the check on exiting the stream, not on entering, and >not on exiting a stream to enter another stream hex? It is not abrupt elevation change unless the unit goes up >= 2 levels [A10.5], which is not applicable here. Ground is not soft except by SSR. The DRM is a +2 for the other two, so on a 10-12, a tank will bog. Vehicles only make a Bog check when they exit the stream to a higher hex [B20.46]. They do not make a Bog check when they enter the stream nor when they move from one stream hex to another. JF>Are streams like marshes in that vehicles take bog checks if JF>adjacent and not on roads (i.e., soft ground)? Is this a left JF>over from SL? No (hexes adjacent to marsh are not soft ground; they are just hexes adjacent to marsh [B16.43]). I don't recall if SL was different. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 14:12:27 AST Subject: RE: LOS, take...5? (fwd) > Date sent: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 15:51:54 -0600 (MDT) > From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" > Send reply to: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" > Subject: RE: LOS, take...5? (fwd) > To: ASL discussion list > Sorry gang, but I posted this to (Soon to be) Major Dave this morning > (after extensive research) and left everyone else out, so when you got > Dave's message this afternoon, you are probably going: Huh? > > This is part of the ongoing struggle which some of us seem to be having > with Walls, Hexes, vertices and THE LAW: > > I can't draw cool mapboards with aasci characters like Dave, so you'll > have to refer back to his drawing or take my word that we were discussing > a wall/hedge which extended out all three directions from a vertex: > > Here it is: RULES QUOTES: > > B9.1 The thick terraine depiction, as well as the hexside itself > (INCLUSIVE OF VERTICES), represents the wall/hedge and will affect any > LOS through it... > > Which would seem to indicate that LOS is blocked because it is traced > throught the 1-2-3 vertex. HOWEVER... > > B9.2 Walls and hedges are half level obstacles to LOS even if they lie > lengthwised (On a hexspine) exactly along a LOS unless the viewing/target > hex is formed by that hexside/hexspine. This is true even if the hexspine > to/from the target firing hex also directly connects with OTHER > WALL/HEDGE VERICES WHICH ARE NOT PART OF EITHER THE FIRER/TARGET HEX. > > Pretty clear, huh? :-) > > So, since the 1-2-3 vertex is the only portion of the walls which COULD > block LOS, and it is prevented from doing so by B9.2, LOS must be clear. > Not particularly the answer I was looking for either, but lets not > confuse logic and the ASLRB. > > Tim "And I thought the Code of Federal Regulations was confusing" > Hundsdorfer > > > Ha ha, not many real lawyers among this group. There is such a thing as rules of precedence. Forget the wall lying directly lengthwise in the LOS for a sec. The other wall clearly blocks LOS. It is not on a hexside of either target or viewing hex. IT blocks LOS. Then you had another wall, lying lenghtwise in the LOS and connected to one the hexes at both ends of the LOS. Yeah, but quoting B9.2 is useless: the LOS is already blocked. Vertex 1-2-3 doesn't become transparent just by adding another wall. Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Subject: RE: Avaloncon (Panzer Mar From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 12:18:00 -0640 Howdy, jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) writes: >(in fact, I don't know of any situation where >C.4 (Ordnance using Area Fire) applies. All the situations >where Area Fire applies for non-Ordnance, there is a >separate TH modifier (dash, AFPh fire) or Ordnance can't >fire (swamp, etc). Perhaps someone could enlighten us.). I am now going to answer my own question :-) Area Fire applies to fire at a Gunflash beyond NVR. If a MTR fires at a Gunflash beyond NVR, it is both using Area Fire and the Area Target Type, so the +2 Case K TH DRM applies and the FP is halved for using the Area Target Type. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 11:36:46 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Top Ten YKYBPASLTLW Top Ten Times You Know You've Been Playing ASL Too Long When: 10. You own at least 3 copies of the rulebook, one of which is laminated. 9. Your wife's calls to "Come up to bed" turn into "Come up for breakfast" 8. You wonder what your neighborhood would look like on an ASL map. So you do a DYO scenario. And you make yourself a 10-3. 7. You start to go through withdrawl symptoms when the ASL discussion list is too quiet. 6. You do some kind of statistical analysis of the ASL Record or the Ladder 5. You can draw the board 3 village from memory 4. You become a firm believer in "He who dies with the most scenarios wins" 3. You take out a second mortgage to start your own fanzine 2. You're invited to a PTO meeting and you start to think about which scenario you want to play And the Number One time YKYBPASLTLW is... 1. You can name at least 20 people on the ASL Discussion List. By their email addresses. Tom "Wadi in the backyard, nice LOS to Smith's Food King. Yep, put an MG on the roof, honey, and boresight Hope Lutheran." ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 11:32:23 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors > From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu > I've got a question about squad strength factors. Egads, this is a tough nut to crack. I really don't think there's much consistency. I'd rather discuss why Marines _only_ have an 8 ML. :-) Any takers? Dave ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 11:53:32 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: RE: LOS, take...5? (fwd) > From: "Alain Chabot" > Ha ha, not many real lawyers among this group. There is such a thing > as rules of precedence. Forget the wall lying directly lengthwise in > the LOS for a sec. The other wall clearly blocks LOS. It is not on a > hexside of either target or viewing hex. IT blocks LOS. Then you had > another wall, lying lenghtwise in the LOS and connected to one the > hexes at both ends of the LOS. Yeah, but quoting B9.2 is useless: the > LOS is already blocked. Vertex 1-2-3 doesn't become transparent just > by adding another wall. B9.2 is a higher numbered rule than B9.1, therefor it takes precedence, and the LOS is clear. Note that B9.2 states "This is true even if the hexspine to/from the target firing hex also directly connects with other wall/hedge vertices which are not part of either the firer/target hex." The use of the plural "vertices", which means that it doesn't matter if there is one additional wall/hedge hexspine, as in the examples in the ASLRB, or if there are two additional wall/hedge hexspines, as in my example. Dave ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 15:19:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: LOS, take...5? (fwd) In message Tue, 2 Aug 1994 14:12:27 AST, "Alain Chabot" writes: > Ha ha, not many real lawyers among this group. There is such a thing > as rules of precedence. Forget the wall lying directly lengthwise in > the LOS for a sec. The other wall clearly blocks LOS. It is not on a > hexside of either target or viewing hex. IT blocks LOS. Then you had > another wall, lying lenghtwise in the LOS and connected to one the > hexes at both ends of the LOS. Yeah, but quoting B9.2 is useless: the > LOS is already blocked. Vertex 1-2-3 doesn't become transparent just > by adding another wall. Sorry, Alain, the ASSLRB says that the higher numbered rule takes precedence. This makes the LOS good by adding that extra wall. The rules do _not_ follow logic in this case. ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 16:06:18 EDT From: ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu (Jeff Kimmel) Subject: Hex/Building Ocuupation Hey, I have a question concerning victory conditions and building occupation. I was playing "Lost Oppurtunities" (A Para scenario, not sure which one) this weekend as the Americans. The Germans have to control 4 buildings to win immediately. We read throught the rules on hex/building control but for some reason I kept thinking that someone had mentioned an errata to those rules. So my questions are: 1. Does the German unit control the hex the instant it enters? Or does it have to sit there a turn and mop it up? 2. If the unit is broken immediately after it enters, does it still control that hex (if the answer to the first part above is "yes")? Reason is, can he sit outside the biuldings and then advance into them and claim victory? Or should I have gotten a turn to try to knock him out again? Thanks for any help! Jeff Kimmel ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu st91nc28@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- You know its going to be a bad day when... You run out of conscript half-squads ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 13:25:22 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Hex/Building Ocuupation > > Hey, I have a question concerning victory conditions and building occupation. > I was playing "Lost Oppurtunities" (A Para scenario, not sure which one) > this weekend as the Americans. The Germans have to control 4 buildings > to win immediately. We read throught the rules on hex/building control but > for some reason I kept thinking that someone had mentioned an errata to those > rules. So my questions are: > > 1. Does the German unit control the hex the instant it enters? Or does it > have to sit there a turn and mop it up? The German MMC (not unit) controls it instantly assuming there are no American units in the bulding. > > 2. If the unit is broken immediately after it enters, does it still control > that hex (if the answer to the first part above is "yes")? Yes. > > Reason is, can he sit outside the biuldings and then advance into them and > claim victory? Or should I have gotten a turn to try to knock him out again? One note in scenarios with HIP units (I don't remember if Lost Oppurtunities has them or not). The Germans (in this case) would think they control the required buildings and ask if he has won. If the Americans control or contest any of the buildings he would have to say that the German player does not control the required 4 buildings. The American player would not have to say which buildings are American controlled or contested until the end of the game. The German player would them have to go back and mop-up the buildings, occupy every location in them, seach them, or control another building. Fred > > Thanks for any help! > > Jeff Kimmel > ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu > st91nc28@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > You know its going to be a bad day when... > You run out of conscript half-squads > ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 13:26:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Re: Favorites & Newbie ??s Rusty: [major snip] > Does the FPF NMC trigger HOB? I.e., is the FPF *exactly* like a NMC? Yes. Also, I think there's a Q&A in one of the Annuals which states that the HoB result is applied to a firegroup by random selection. Share & Enjoy! Brent Pollock ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 16:45:18 EDT From: ut00894@volvo.com (Doug Maston) Subject: USMC Morale in WWII Dave, In all seriousness, I think a morale value of 8 for the Marines in WWII is about right. I'm thinking along the lines of an arm of the service that was taking civilians and making them into soldiers as fast as they could. However as they gained combat experience, their morale would have reflected both experience and fatigue. So maybe it remains at 8 for the whole war. What's your opinion? Today, with an all volunteer and highly trained Corps, I would rate them at least a 10. Of course, I may be biased. My son is a Sergeant on his second tour. Doug Maston ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 16:42:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Hex/Building Ocuupation In message Tue, 2 Aug 94 16:06:18 EDT, ujkimmel@king.mcs.drexel.edu (Jeff Kimmel) writes: > 1. Does the German unit control the hex the instant it enters? Or does it > have to sit there a turn and mop it up? Building Control is automatic and immediate. The only thing might be that a HIP unit would be in the building. In this case, it might take a mopping up to find it quickly. Though this is not required. I would say that the allied player is under an obligation to tell you if you won the game, in other words, if you Control the four required buildings. But he is under no obligation to tell you that you have any particular building Controlled...only the end game. > 2. If the unit is broken immediately after it enters, does it still > control that hex (if the answer to the first part above is "yes")? Yes, assuming there is no other enemy unit in the building and the Controlling unit is an MMC. ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 15:38:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Database I seem to remember some talk about an ASL/SL database that was being updated/composed. Can someone who knows something about it tell me who I can barrage with mail as to what it is about and when it will be completed?? Darren Gour ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 19:12:05 AST Subject: Re: LOS, take 2 Okay, so the rulebook says that higher-numbered rules take precedence over lower numbered ones. But that's not the case here. I have gone and fetched Dave's original message to illustrate the point. I just think we're lloking at it from the wrong end. There are three wall hexsides here: 1-2, 1-3 and 2-3. I agree that 1-3 does not block LOS. That's clear in B9.2. But there exist a wall that starts at the left of 1-2 and extends to the right of 2-3, going through the 1-2-3 vertex. That wall DOES block LOS, whether there is a wall on hexside 1-3 or not. So I am not arguing that B9.2 does not take precedence, I am saying that yes, should there be clear LOS from A to B, a wall on hexside 1-3 would not block it. But there ain't no clear LOS. The patient is dead, whether to give him Aspirin or Tylenol is immaterial. > \____/ \____/ \ > / \ / \ / > / \____/ B \____/ > \ / \ / \ > \____/ 1 \____/ \ > / \ X \ / > / \XXXXX 3 \____/ > \ / X / \ > \____/ 2 X____/ \ > / \ / \ / > / \____/ \____/ > \ / \ / \ > \____/ \____/ \ > / \ / \ / > / A \____/ \____/ > \ / \ / \ > \____/ \____/ \ > Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: LOS, take 2 Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 16:16:40 PDT Alain Chabot writes: > Okay, so the rulebook says that higher-numbered rules take precedence > over lower numbered ones. But that's not the case here. I have gone > and fetched Dave's original message to illustrate the point. > > I just think we're lloking at it from the wrong end. There are three > wall hexsides here: 1-2, 1-3 and 2-3. I agree that 1-3 does not block > LOS. That's clear in B9.2. But there exist a wall that starts at the > left of 1-2 and extends to the right of 2-3, going through the 1-2-3 > vertex. That wall DOES block LOS, whether there is a wall on hexside > 1-3 or not. So I am not arguing that B9.2 does not take precedence, I > am saying that yes, should there be clear LOS from A to B, a wall on > hexside 1-3 would not block it. But there ain't no clear LOS. The > patient is dead, whether to give him Aspirin or Tylenol is > immaterial. Look at B9.2 again. It says clearly that in this sort of case, wall 1-3 (including its VERTICES) does not block LOS! This means that the 1-2-3 vertex does not block LOS. The rest of the 1-2 and 2-3 walls do block LOS, but the LOS does not pass through those other parts of those walls; it passes through the vertex. Since that vertex does not block LOS, the LOS is not blocked. Your logic should apply equally well if only the 1-2 wall or the 2-3 wall (but not both) is present, but I think all are agreed that in either of those cases the LOS is not blocked. Therefore that logic must not be correct. From a design point of view, the LOS probably SHOULD be blocked, but that's not what the rules say. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 19:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: EDANGLETON@delphi.com Subject: ASL GROUPS V1.2 Greetings from Indianapolis, OK, here it is, the third version of the world-wide ASL Groups List. Please note that it is not all encompassing and that there are still huge gaps. Hopefully, this publication will encourage more responses. If you sent a listing and it does not appear, one of the following has occurred 1.) I never recieved it. (Its somewhere out there in the ether) 2.) I did not recieve enough information. In responding, please consider that I need at bare minimum the following: Country: (if not US) State: (If US) City: Contact Person: (And at LEAST an address or phone number) EMAIL Address: (If person who "runs" the club does not have one, I'll use the Email address of the submitter instead) Please be advised that your return Email address does not always tell me exactly where you are. My plan is to update the list every two months. I will do so more often, if the volume of new entries so warrants. Remember, a group does not have to be a formal organization, just a few players in a given area qualifies.(Hint, Hint) Looking forward to more responses, Ed edangleton@delphi.com ************************************************************************** ASL ORGANIZATIONS v1.2 August 2, 1994 AUSTRALIA City: Adelaide, SA AUSTRALIA Organization: South Australian Simulation Inc. Contact Person: Brad McMahon or Rene Vernon EMAIL Address: brad@rommel.apana.org.au vernon@dstos3.dsto.gov.au Phone: +61-8-4104455 Club Address: Level 2 134 Waymouth Street, Adelaide SA PO Box 10184 Gouger Street, Adelaide SA 5000 (ASL is usually played on Sat. afternoons, club is permanent, air-conditioned and fully licensed!) (Wed/Fri 1700 - late, Sat/Sun 1200 late, GMT+0930hrs) City: Sydney, NSW AUSTRALIA Organization: Paddington Bears Contact Person: Les Kramer EMAIL Address: lesk@lna.oz.au Phone: +61-2-8171683 Street Address: 7/27 Wharf Rd, Gladesville NSW 2111, AUSTRALIA AUSTRIA City: Wien Organization: Simulationsspiele Verein Wien Contact Person: David Soucek Phone: +43-1-5971328 EMAIL Address: soucek@iwm.univie.ac.at Street Address: Aegidig. 4, A - 1060 Wien Meet each Wednesday and Friday CANADA City: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Organization: CASL Contact Person: Grant Linneberg EMAIL Address: grant.linneberg@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca EMAIL Address2: g.linneberg@genie.geis.com EMAIL Address3. Grant Linneberg @ fidonet 1:134/27 Phone: 403 263 4954 Street Address: 833 23rd Ave. S.E. Calgary AB T2G 1N9 FRANCE City: Montgeron (near Paris) Organization Name : Association Montgeronaise de Contact Person: Bruno Nitrosso EMAIL Address: Bruno.Nitrosso@der.edf.fr Tournaments Hosted: Tournoi et Rencontres de Montgeron, Oct. 94 Meet First,Third and Fifth Sundays of each Month. DENMARK City: K o/benhavn (Copenhagen!) Organization Name (if any): none Contact Person: Povl Aage EMAIL Address: povl@math.ku.dk Street Address: Rantzausgade 70C, 3TV, DK-2200 K o/benhavn N, DENMARK. Phone: none given No. of members: Approx. 60 (we run one or two ASL tournaments a year, in which about 30 people participate) GERMANY City: Kaiserslautern Organization Name (if any): none Contact Person: Karsten Droste EMAIL Address: droste@informatik.uni-kl.de Phone: germany + (0)631 - 12203 GERMANY City: Saarbruecken Organization Name (if any): none Contact Person: Peter Ladwein EMAIL Address: none BUT you can use same as for Kaiserslautern as we are in contact Phone: germany + (0)6897 - 89439 SOUTH AFRICA City: Cape Town Organization Name: NA Contact Person: Robin Crudge EMAIL Address: RCRUDGE@zoo.uct.ac.za Phone: Street Address: 8 Barton St., Cape Town SWEDEN City: Linkoping Organization Name: Contact Person: Mats Persson EMAIL Address: matpe@ida.liu.se Phone: +46 13 176856 Street Address: Rydsvagen 248C23, 582 51 Linkoping City: Gefle, Uppsala Organization Name: Contact Person: Patrik Manlig Sernanders v. 1:420 751 62 UPPSALA phone: +46 (18) 46 17 41 alt: S. Jaervstav. 216 805 92 GEFLE phone: +46 (26) 11 92 74 EMAIL Address: pman@hgs.se (my preferred address) ------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED STATES CALIFORNIA City: Fountain Valley, CA Organization: Southern California ASL Club Contact: Steve Sulzby EMAIL Address: Submitted by r.mosher2@genie.geis.com Phone: 714-968-6689 Street Address: 9321 Grackle Ave., Fountain Valley, Ca., 92708-6545 FLORIDA City: Tampa, FL, USA Organization: ASL Schwerpunkt-Tampa Bay Contact Person: Daniel Tartaglia EMAIL Address: daniel_t@gate.net Phone: (813) 443-2779 Street Address: 2077 San Sebastian Way N., Clearwater, FL 34623-4138 ILLINOIS City: Chigago ( Area) Organization: Windy City Wargamers Contact Person: Louie Tokarz EMAIL Address: Submitted by Carrington R. Ward (crward@midway.uchicago.edu) Phone: (708) 857-7060 Street Address: 5724 W. 106th St. Chicago Ridge, IL 60515 INDIANA City: Indianapolis, IN Organization: ASL Indianapolis Players Assoc. (ASLIPA) Contact Person: Ed Angleton EMAIL Address: EDANGLETON@DELPHI.COM Phone: (317)-298-9331 Street Address: 4818-O Cross Creek Ln, Indianapolis IN 46254 NEW JERSEY City: Edison, NJ (Southwest of NYC) Organization: Cental Jersey ASL Club Contact Person: Dan Zucker EMAIL Address: Submitted by wuj@moss.att.com Phone: (908) 754-3358 Street Address: Other Info: Meets on first Sunday of March, June, Sept, and Dec. Noon to 7:00 pm Edison First Aid Station City: Westwood, NJ (Northwest of NYC) Organization: North Jersey ASL Club Contact Person: Dave Leeman EMAIL Address: Submitted by wuj@moss.att.com Phone: (201) 930-9046* Street Address: Other Info: Meets on the first Sunday of Feb, May, Aug, Nov. Noon to 7:00 pm Zion Luthern Church of Westwood *(Eco-Clean Recording, his wife runs some kind of mail order business. Just leave a quick message for Dave.) NORTH CAROLINA City: Greensboro & Surrounding area, NC Organization: PIEDMONT AREA WARGAMERS (PAW) Contact Person: Doug Maston or Ray Wolsczyn EMAIL Address: Phone: (910) 282-0552 (R) (910) 996-5677 (R) (910) 279-2676 (B) (910) 855-2218 (B) Street Address:4 Three Meadows Ct., Greensboro, NC 27402-1728 (Doug) 7162 Mantlewood Lane, Kernersville, NC 27284 (Ray) Other Info: Sponsor of the annual "Winds of War" ASL Tourney. Coming in the Spring of 1995, "1945 - Victory at Last!" Meets at members homes as games are arranged. Guests and fellow ASL players traveling through the area always welcome! OHIO City: Cleveland, Ohio Organization: NA Contact Person: Chris Farrell EMAIL Address: ckf2@po.cwru.edu Phone: (216) 932-6946 Street Address: 2577 Euclid Hts. Ave. #301, Cleveland OH City: Columbus, Ohio Ogranization: Several Guys Who Play ASL Contact: Bill Jelinek Email: jelinek.1@osu.edu or wjelinek@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Phone: (614) 481-7576 Address: 1593 King Avenue Columbus, Ohio USA 43212-2060 City: Columbus, OH Organization name: NA Contact persons: Jay Harms or Chuck Wallace EMAIL address: jharms@techinc.usa.com c.wallace@genie.geis.com Phone: (614)-761-2521 (614)-861-1178 Street Address: 6188 Lakeshire dr., Dublin OH 43017 OREGON City: Portland, OR Organization Name (if any): NA Contact Person: Dade Cariaga EMAIL Address: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com Phone: (503)244-3190 PENNSYLVANIA City: Plymouth Meeting, PA (Northwest of Phila.) Organization: Eastern Pennsylvania Gamers Assoc. (EPGS) Contact Person: Jim Brackin or Pat Dowde EMAIL Address: Submitted by wuj@moss.att.com Phone: (215) 443-5315 or (215) 948-3118 Street Address: Other Info: Meets the third Saturday of each month 8:00 AM to Late Inn at Plymouth Meeting All wargames are played at EPGS, but there is a very strong contingent of ASL players, probably 20 or so. Typically there are 4 or 5 ASL games going at any time. A large wargaming club! TEXAS City: Austin, Waco, San Antonio, College Station and Surrounding Central Texas Organization Name (if any): Central Texas ASl Union of Gamers CT-ASLUG Contact Person: Mike Seningen or Matt Shostak EMAIL Address: seningen@ross.com mbs@zycor.lgc.com Phone: 512-892-7169, 512-280-8414 Street Address: 4607 Yellow Rose Trail, Austin, Texas 78749 Matt's address not available (at the top of my head) Tournaments Hosted: ASL Team Tournament, Jun 3rd-5th in Austin, Texas Meet First Saturday of each Month. VIRGINIA City: Fairfax, VA (Northern Virginia) Organization Name (if any): NOVASL Contact Person: Matt Noah EMAIL Address: noah_matt@prc.com Phone: (703) 450-0698 (h) (703) 556-3635 (w) Street Address: Other Info : Ahoy matee's, there be sharks in these waters! :) :) :) :) :) City: Gloucester Point, VA (near Norfolk, Newport News) Organization Name (if any): Contact Person: Jeff Shields EMAIL Address: jeff@back.vims.edu Phone: (804) 642-7128 Street Address: 4535 Mallard Drive, Gloucester, VA 23061 ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 19:49:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: LOS, take 2 One last try... In message Tue, 2 Aug 1994 19:12:05 AST, "Alain Chabot" writes: > That wall DOES block LOS, whether there is a wall on hexside > 1-3 or not. So I am not arguing that B9.2 does not take precedence, I > am saying that yes, should there be clear LOS from A to B, a wall on > hexside 1-3 would not block it. But there ain't no clear LOS. Then please identify why the examples on page B6 and B7 show a clear LOS from X6 to Z9 (B6) and X1 to Z4 (B7). If you can explain this, without saying the rulebook is wrong on the same rule in two different places, I would be very grateful. ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:15:08 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Favorites & Newbie ??s [Cut] > > On another issue: > > Does the FPF NMC trigger HOB? I.e., is the FPF *exactly* like a NMC? Yes, however use random selection to determine which of several units is effected by HOB. Fred > > > Thanks, > > Rusty (Not really complaining; just wondering) > witek@suvax1.stetson.edu > > > ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 20:20:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Top Ten YKYBPASLTLW > Top Ten Times You Know You've Been Playing ASL Too Long When: [snip, snip] Egads. Lads, we all need to buy this man a vacation! ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 20:30:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: LOS, take 2 > Then please identify why the examples on page B6 and B7 show a clear LOS > from X6 to Z9 (B6) and X1 to Z4 (B7). If you can explain this, without > saying the rulebook is wrong on the same rule in two different places, I > would be very grateful. In B6 there is no wall hex at [1]Y8 or Y7/Y8 if you will. Now look at the B6 illustration. According to what all the "there IS LOS" people are saying, if hex Y8 was _completely_ enclosed in wall, then they say that LOS would exist from X6 to Z9 (and for arguments sake, say that Y9/Z8 was wall and not hedge). I still think that there is NOT LOS in such a case. I honestly believe that when 9.21 was written, a mild brain seizure occured and the thought that was in the mind of the author was not carried through. ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 20:40:48 EDT Subject: re: Secret Tips on How to Win... As Dave Ripton states .. "Make all your MC." He should know. After my spineless troops failed to blow away the Russian hordes with two killer stacks, they decided to commit suicide when the 4 + 2 attacks started rolling in. You could hear their cries for mercy! PATHETIC!!! The record now stands at 3-2 (in my favor). (Don't forget the unrated Chateau Cherry Dave!). After hobnobbing with the greats at Avaloncon I will return better and wiser. Perhaps Captain Bills will finally appear against you! Alan "Novice-but-Captain" Bills ----- Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 21:22:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: LOS, take 2 In message Tue, 2 Aug 1994 20:30:47 -0400 (EDT), Paul F Ferraro writes: >> Then please identify why the examples on page B6 and B7 show a clear LOS >> from X6 to Z9 (B6) and X1 to Z4 (B7). If you can explain this, >> without saying the rulebook is wrong on the same rule in two different >> places, I would be very grateful. > > In B6 there is no wall hex at [1]Y8 or Y7/Y8 if you will. Doesn't matter. The argument being put forth is... Does a wall hexside that is not a hexspine of either the target or viewing hex block LOS in all cases? The answer is no. It does not block LOS when a hex spine of either the target hex or viewing hex is a wall that connects with the aformentioned wall hexside. Whether it is one hex side that is a wall, as in the B9.1 or B9.21 examples or 2 wall hex sides, as in Dave's example is irrelevant. The solution to one should be the solution to the other. > I honestly believe that when 9.21 was written, a mild brain seizure > occured and the thought that was in the mind of the author was not carried > through. Actually, I think the examples were written during said brain seizure as well as 9.2. It's the second sentence of B9.2 which is the whole key and refutes all who like to think there is no LOS. Carefully read B9.2. The first sentence says that walls/hedges are LOS obstacles (paraphrasing.). It also says they are obstacles even if they lie on a hex spine that is exactly along the LOS. The EXCEPTION to this is if the hex spine is part of either the viewing or target hex. Now we have the contradiction between B9.1 which says a hexside vertex blocks LOS and B9.2 first sentence which would give LOS along a hex spine in certain cases. The second sentence of B9.2 clears this up... "This is true (there is LOS) even if the hexspine to/from the target/firing hex also directly connects with other wall/hedge hexside vertices which are not part of either the firer/target hex. This sentence tells you that the LOS's are, indeed, clear. This is also illustrated in both examples and applies directly to Dave's example. Mind you, I do not agree with this rule! It is not a logical extension of the preceding rules. But I have to live with it. ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:48:06 +1000 From: lesk@LNA03.lna.oz.au (Les KRAMER) Subject: RE:LOS: Take ?? Alain Chabot wrote : >Ha ha, not many real lawyers among this group. There is such a thing >as rules of precedence. Forget the wall lying directly lengthwise in >. >. >Yeah, but quoting B9.2 is useless: the LOS is already blocked. But, for ASL rule precedence is reversed, higher numbered rules take precedence. Les Kramer ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: OBA Q's Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 13:03:59 CETDST Hi, everyone Me and a friend of mine are working on a Flowchart for OBA and we have a couple of questions. 1. Does C1.732 still apply if one chooses to place a SR rather than a FFE when the AR is in a Pre-Registered hex ? 2. Is an extra Battery Access chit draw neccessary as per C1.21 when placing an AR in a Pre-Registered hex to place a FFE (assuming it is otherwise neccessary) ? 3. C1.22 and C1.3 both mention "Cancellation of Fire Mission". Does "Cancellation of a Fire Mission" mean Removal of all SR/FFE of the Battery and loss of Battery Access ? C1.35 only defines cacellation of SR andFFE. Any help is much appreciated. Klas Malmstrom ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 21:56:02 +0930 GMT From: bjm@rommel.apana.org.au (Brad McMahon) Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors Hi Capt (Capt David Van Kan), on Aug 2 you wrote: > > From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu > > > I've got a question about squad strength factors. > > Egads, this is a tough nut to crack. I really don't think there's much > consistency. I'd rather discuss why Marines _only_ have an 8 ML. :-) > Any takers? Yeah, 'coz that would make them better than ANZAC troops, and the 'Hill knows that ain't true! :-) Brad -- Brad McMahon <> bjm@rommel.apana.org.au "I will not instigate revolution" [7G06] ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 08:09:42 -0600 (MDT) From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" Subject: The final take. Before someone has a cerebral hemorage, is there any example, on any mapboard, where all three hexspines coming out of a vertex are wall and/or hedge? I couldn't find one, but I don't have all the boards. I'm begining to think this was an evil plot by Captain Dave. ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 11:10:23 AST Subject: LOS take ... I surrender Yes, I give up. Those that say that 9.2 provides for a valid LOS between A and B are right, it says so. I guess the law is definitely an ass in this case. Another way of putting it, is that the rule was very poorly written. A lot of them are in fact. There are ways to write in a clearer fashion. Just in order to illustrate how silly that rule turns out to be, please grab venerable board #3 out of the closet. Is there a LOS between L1 and J4? Unless I've lost my mind, the answer is a resounding NO. Want to create such a LOS? Well, you have two ways: 1) you can either demolish the wall on hexside K2:K3 (or on hexside L2:K3) OR (get this) 2) you add another wall along hexside K2:L2. Better still, build a wall on hexside J3:K4, connect it to two other walls, one goes along J3:K3 and connects to the existing J2:K3 wall hexside, connect the second one to newly-created walls on K3:K4 and K3:L3 and on to the K3-L2-L3 vertex. You see, by virtue of (A) creating a new wall hexside in J3:K4 and (b) connecting that wall to all manners of other walls, you just made the LOS suddenly reappear. Come to think of it, on a board with only ground level Open ground, even if every hexside was a wall hexside, there would be clear LOS between ANY two hexes under the literal interpretation of B9.2. But hey, as I said earlier, I give up. Anybody at AH is in on this discussion??? How about rewriting B9.2? Hint: Add the following: a LOS that is otherwise blocked by the presence of wall/hedges is not made clear by the fact that the LOS obstruction is connected to a wall/hedge hexspine of the target/viewing hex. And I thought that nothing would beat the byzantine ways a collective agreement can be written/interpreted. Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Top Ten YKYBPASLTLW Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:43:28 +0200 (MET DST) Tom writes: > Top Ten Times You Know You've Been Playing ASL Too Long When: ... > 1. You can name at least 20 people on the ASL Discussion List. By their email > addresses. Shouldn't this be "1. When you start to make up 'Top Ten...' lists about ASL" ? -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 10:13:24 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: The final take. > > Before someone has a cerebral hemorage, is there any example, on any > mapboard, where all three hexspines coming out of a vertex are wall > and/or hedge? > One offending real-life LOS is from 6H2 to 6F5. > > I'm begining to think this was an evil plot by Captain Dave. > I'm approaching personal saturation on this one. For every new message on this subject that gets posted to the list, Dave is going to get docked 10 Ladder points. This is worse than counter storage. Tom ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:43:07 -0400 (EDT) From: John Appel Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors On Tue, 2 Aug 1994, Capt David Van Kan wrote: >> Mike Clay's comments about squad strength factors deleted<< > Egads, this is a tough nut to crack. I really don't think there's much > consistency. I'd rather discuss why Marines _only_ have an 8 ML. :-) > Any takers? > > Dave And let's not forget those boys in the maroon berets who, while barve enough to throw themselves out of a C-47 into a night lit only by enemy tracers, only have a morale of _7_. Geez, it's enough to make me want to put on my Corcorans and show their soles to the indvidual who made _that_ decision! B-) John "still got my wings" Appel ----- Subject: The final take. From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 11:35:00 -0640 Howdy, "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" writes: >Before someone has a cerebral hemorage, is there any example, on any >mapboard, where all three hexspines coming out of a vertex are wall >and/or hedge? I thought a cerebral hemorage was a pre-requisite to play ASL (or at least, to get into arcane rules discussions). Am I wrong? Any way, 2V7, 41P5, 24P4 and 40P6 (of the boards I have in easy reach) have a "propellor", so the issue is not entirely moot. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: OBA Q's From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 11:26:00 -0640 Howdy, Klas Malmstrom writes: > Me and a friend of mine are working on a Flowchart for OBA > and we have a couple of questions. There is a flowchart by Brian M. Sielski in New Jersey, USA. It was published in FFE issue V1 N5, with errata in the next issue (I believe). I was told that it was published in other places, but I can't verify that. I found a few minor points missing or unclear, but it is a good chart. You might want to look at it before re-inventing the wheel. You can probably improve it, but it will give you a starting point. Also, I hope we will see your flow chart at an ftp site soon :-) > Does C1.732 still apply if one chooses to place a SR rather > than a FFE when the AR is in a Pre-Registered hex ? C1.732 "While the AR is in that Pre-Registered hex, Accuracy (1.3) occurs if the Original DR is <= 4; if not Accurate, the Extent of Error dr is halved (FRU)." I don't see why not. C1.731 deals with immediate placement of an FFE, but C1.732 seems to be about Pre-Registration generally. > Is an extra Battery Access chit draw neccessary as per C1.21 > when placing an AR in a Pre-Registered hex to place a FFE > (assuming it is otherwise neccessary) ? There is no rule exempting it, so yes. > C1.22 and C1.3 both mention "Cancellation of Fire Mission". > Does "Cancellation of a Fire Mission" mean Removal of all > SR/FFE of the Battery and loss of Battery Access ? C1.35 > only defines cancellation of SR and FFE. C1.7 ('89) defines a Fire Mission as "the entire time between Battery Access chit draws in which a FFE is on board." This is about as sloppy a definition as one could want, but what it seems to want to say is that a Fire Mission begins when a Battery Access chit is drawn, and ends when another Battery Access chit (besides extra ones for concealed units) is drawn. Cancellation of a Fire Mission would probably be comprised of removal of the AR, SR, or FFE as appropriate and loss of Battery Access (i.e. the Battery Access chit drawn and discarded per C1.21 for this Fire Mission no longer applies, and if a new Fire Mission is started, a new Battery Access chit must be drawn). This is not explicitly stated in the rules, but is my inference from C1.22, etc. Note that my definition of a Fire Mission is loose in that if a Fire Mission goes through FFE:C and no more Battery Access chits are drawn, the Fire Mission can continue through the end of the game. I don't think this has any serious side-effects, however. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 12:21:08 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: CT-ASLUG August Meeting The Central Texas - ASL - Union of Gamers is having their monthly meeting the second Saturday of this month. Meeting Time: 10 AM Meeting Place: Matt Showstak's Date: Saturday, Aug 13th We welcome all Central Texas and surrounding area ASLers to play some real live face to face ASL. New players, new to town, or just hiding in the wood work, please contact us! Matt requests an RSVP at mbs@zycor.lgc.com or 512-280-8414, so he knows how many to seat and possible pairings. cheers, mike seningen ----- Subject: Status on Zines Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 19:43:11 +0200 From: Asad Rustum Hi guys, I'm reformatting the ASL-FAQ to hypertext to add it to the home page. I would like it to be more or less accurate and therefore would like to know the status of following zines: * ASLUG * FFE * On All Fronts * Rout Report * ASL News Brian, what about the new zine you are working on? Adress, cost etc... Thanks, +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Asad Rustum 'Oh Lord won't you buy me f90-aru@nada.kth.se a Mercedes Benz...' atomic@astrakan.hgs.se Janis Joplin http://www.nada.kth.se/~f90-aru ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:47:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: The final take. >This is worse than counter storage. Hey, glad you brought his up...I've got this _great_ idea on how to store... :-) ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 11:14:12 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors > From: bjm@rommel.apana.org.au (Brad McMahon) > > Hi Capt (Capt David Van Kan), on Aug 2 you wrote: > > > > From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu > > > > > I've got a question about squad strength factors. > > > > Egads, this is a tough nut to crack. I really don't think there's much > > consistency. I'd rather discuss why Marines _only_ have an 8 ML. :-) > > Any takers? > > Yeah, 'coz that would make them better than ANZAC troops, and the 'Hill > knows that ain't true! :-) > > Brad Hi, Brad! Yeah, but at this time in the war, our morale _was_ higher than ANZAC troops, because we were stealing all their women from them. :-) :-) Seriously, I recall reading that there were quite a few ill-feelings between ANZAC troops and Marines because of the Marines' liberty behavior. :-( Dave ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 11:30:15 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors > From: John "still got my wings" Appel > > And let's not forget those boys in the maroon berets who, while > barve enough to throw themselves out of a C-47 into a night lit only by > enemy tracers, only have a morale of _7_. Geez, it's enough to make me > want to put on my Corcorans and show their soles to the indvidual who > made _that_ decision! B-) A truly unfortunate decision. Your typical airborne squad has the same ML as many lesser quality troops. They probably should be higher. But then, if they were ML8 troops, Marines would have to be at least ML9!! Hey, I'm just kidding! No flame wars, please. I can't afford to be docked anymore ladder points! Dave "no Marines in LOS" van Kan ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 11:42:53 PDT From: erimli@systems.caltech.edu (Bahadir Erimli) Subject: Re: OBA Q's Hello JR, > There is a flowchart by Brian M. Sielski in New Jersey, > USA. It was published in FFE issue V1 N5, with errata in > the next issue (I believe). I was told that it was > published in other places, but I can't verify that. I found > a few minor points missing or unclear, but it is a good > chart. You might want to look at it before re-inventing the > wheel. You can probably improve it, but it will give you a > starting point. Also, I hope we will see your flow chart at > an ftp site soon :-) What a pity that noone remembers my flowchart - the one I prepared three years ago and appeared in the Digest and is currently on both sites under the file "aslml-2.05"... Alas, I can be so easily forgotten after all my contributions to the welfare of my fellow-ASLers.... :-) :-) :-) take care, bahadir ----- Subject: Re: OBA Q's Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 21:14:43 +0200 From: Asad Rustum Our friend Bahadir writes: > What a pity that noone remembers my flowchart - the one I prepared > three years ago and appeared in the Digest and is currently on both sites > under the file "aslml-2.05"... > Alas, I can be so easily forgotten after all my contributions to the > welfare of my fellow-ASLers.... :-) :-) :-) Not forgotten at all! I use it every time I see the the word OBA! It works fine although it uses the "old" system, pre-89 with blue FFE's and SR's or whatever. Good work Bahadir :-) /asad "Does OBA _really_ work?" rustum ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 14:14:38 -0500 From: Bryan Milligan Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors > From: John "still got my wings" Appel > > And let's not forget those boys in the maroon berets who, while > barve enough to throw themselves out of a C-47 into a night lit only by > enemy tracers, only have a morale of _7_. Geez, it's enough to make me > want to put on my Corcorans and show their soles to the indvidual who > made _that_ decision! B-) Hey! What about those brave (and very pale) research types? That's where the true courage is in any military-industrial complex. Imagine toiling hours on end in harsh conditions such as flourescent lighting and over air-conditioned labs. Sheesh! Bring the world Spam and then you're forgotten. Bryan P.S. What would the counter be? 0-(-1)-10 ? ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 13:18:34 PDT From: erimli@systems.caltech.edu (Bahadir Erimli) Subject: Re: OBA Q's > Not forgotten at all! I use it every time I see the the word OBA! It > works fine although it uses the "old" system, pre-89 with blue FFE's > and SR's or whatever. Good work Bahadir :-) ay ay ay... The original message was meant to be a good-humored joke to JR and by mistake I ended up whining to the whole list. How embarrassing ! I should've checked the Reply-To field before I sent the message, I guess. Sorry about the inappropriate and shameless whining, pals. (however, it's encouraging to learn that I was useful !) However, Asad is right about the chart being pre-89. I would certainly get the things updated if I could only lay my hands on a copy of the new rules! thanks for the encouraging messages and apologies for whining, take care, Bahadir -the sniveler- Erimli ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:31:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: Was Squad Strength Factors > > Yeah, but at this time in the war, our morale _was_ higher than ANZAC troops, > because we were stealing all their women from them. :-) :-) Seriously, > I recall reading that there were quite a few ill-feelings between ANZAC > troops and Marines because of the Marines' liberty behavior. :-( > Dave, You're referring to what many Queenslanders call "The Battle of Brisbane." MacArthur's HQ was in the Girls Convent near Mt. Cooth-tha (pronounced Coot-a) in Brisbane. The US troops stationed there apparently had many a fist fight with the locals over women. No doubt this was fanned by the superb Aussie beers which put the US ones to shame. One of the reasons that the ANZACs were withdrawn to the Pacific theater in 1943 was the number of complaints raised by the soldiers that they weren't defending their homeland from the Japanese (read US Marines :-). So perhaps the ANZAC forces should have a morale of 7 while in the desert and a morale of 8 while fighting the Japs! Maybe they should have a morale of 8 while streetfighting the yanks (aka septics 'cause it rhymes with tanks that rhymes with yanks)! :-> Is today slow or what!? Jeff ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 13:47:05 PDT From: Mark_Bennett@taligent.com (Mark Bennett) Subject: Re: LOS take ... I surrender "Alain Chabot" writes: [snip, snip] >Come to think of it, on a board with only ground level Open ground, >even if every hexside was a wall hexside, there would be clear LOS >between ANY two hexes under the literal interpretation of B9.2. [snip, snip] B9.2 "=8Aunless the viewing/target hex is formed by that hexside/hexspine=8A= " All those other wall hexsides/hexspines that don't form the viewing/target h= exes would still block LOS. Hope this helps, Mark ----- Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 17:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Factory TEM question Hi! I am getting ready to play day 2 of RB CG3. We have a question regarding Factory TEM (as per subject heading). TEM for factory when entirely traced within the factory is +1, instead of the +3 from outside fire. Now, assume that a factory hex has been rubbled. Does this hex qualify as a location where one can attack using the +1 instead of the +3? And, assuming that you can attack at +1, what about the TEM for an attack from a level 1 location immediately behind the rubbled factory location which now has LOS into the interior? Any ideas on this would be appreciated. regards davidb ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 18:46:12 AST Subject: Mea culpa I just realized (I know, I'm slow) that my wonderfully crafted proposal for amending B9.2 just about negates it. Suggestion withdrawn in shame :(. Maybe remove the plural to the "even if connected to other hexspines/hexsides" (I am [mis]quoting from memory here). Oh heck Alain -boy it's good thing they don't really know who I am - Chabot Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 15:48:52 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Marines and ML8 Oh yeah? Those Marines are so tough that they'd have to blah blah blah blah (OK, here's my real question, inserted into the tough outer shell of yet another Marine Morale comment so that Brian's eyes will glaze over when he reads the first line and he won't notice that I'm asking. I just want to check my understanding of the Deliberate Immobilization Rules - if an enemy tank has an armor factor printed on the counter which is exactly equal to the number on the C7.31 AP TK table which corresponds to your gun (ie, no range or other modifiers), you can't take a delib immob shot at that facing, right?) And another thing! Marines should have ML9 after 1941! Tom ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 18:02:53 -0400 From: Stewart R King Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors > I'd rather discuss why Marines _only_ have an 8 ML. :-) > Any takers? > > Dave > > Morale levels in general seem strange to me. I think that if the National Guard from Bend Oregon (meaning no disrespect to the 7th Div.) gets a broken-side morale two higher than its GO morale, the USMC should get the same. And the SS-Hard-on which was too common in the early years of gaming got off the cover of ASL but remains in the game -- the SS were good, but not better than the USMC, the best of the Guards units in the Red Army, the Japanese Imperial Guard, or the Tirailleurs Senegalais or the Legion Etrangere. And speaking of the elite French units, they should have broken side morale at least equal to the GO morale for squads -- they frequently get it by SSR but it should be the rule and the lower level and exception. Especially the French African units knew what they had to look forward to if they surrendered and they fought like hell with the equipment they had. Stewart King ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 16:12:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Netters at the Con To all those attending the festivities, Good luck, and lets do the Netters proud. We all expect to see some Top Tens (no, not those ones Tom!). 8) By the way, how's that Genie-Internet grudge match going?? Darren Gour ----- Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 16:48:51 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Netters at the Con > > By the way, how's that Genie-Internet grudge match going?? > We're having a good time with it, regardless of how it comes out. The valiant Fallschirmjagers landed nearly without incident and immediately took out two of the four AA guns required to win, with the help of some tremendous luck. Unfortunately, some moron insisted on stack-moving a 9-2, 838/dmHMG, 548/dmMMG in the open and got taken down a peg or two by a long range 1(-2) snakeyes, which really messed up the timetable of the attack from the west. Still, the FJ's managed to put together a 3-prong attack on the board 3 village (somewhat of an achievement for me, since I can rarely manage ONE good prong), and the Brits have been driven back by a series of great German rolls. Overall, I'm probably averaging something like a 7, but more like a 3 on the important shots, and Phil hasn't passed a MC since I can't remember when. Crazy luck. Only 4 turns left, though, (not 5 as I miscounted, oops), and it's gonna start really cooking. The Germans have the numerical and quality advantages in MMC's, SW, and leaders, but they've got to advance about 10 hexes directly through the Brits who are of course concealed in +2 terrain. And then take out 2 more Bofors guns, who aren't likely to sit back and oblige. Both Phil and I don't think it looks good for our respective sides, but I think the ol' GEniemeister is pulling the leg of yours truly. Losing that 9-2 (and thinking I had an extra turn to work with) made me slow down too much. Ah well. Tom ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 17:27:23 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Factory TEM question Now this is only a guess -- But I would picture this very much like the rules for firing through an open roof top -- So if you have los to the hex (ie over the rubble) you would have a +1 tem. cheers, mike ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 17:19:05 -0600 (MDT) From: David Hauth Subject: Re: Marines and ML8 Tom Repetti wrote: > my understanding of the Deliberate Immobilization Rules - if an enemy tank has > an armor factor printed on the counter which is exactly equal to the > number on the C7.31 AP TK table which corresponds to your gun (ie, no range > or other modifiers), you can't take a delib immob shot at that facing, right?) >From what I understand, facing is not crucial; doesn't the rulebook say that you can DI an AFV if _any_ printed AF on the counter is < TK# of the weapon being fired? I don't recall facing being mentioned; alas, I do not have access to both my rulebook _and_ the internet at the same time so I hope my questions aren't too maddening :') Dave Hauth ----- Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 19:30:45 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Clarification on factory TEM Thanks for the quick feedback. Two of you, however, misinterpreted my first question (which means I didn't phrase it correctly!). \_____/ / \ _/ A \ Factory \ / \_____/ / \ _/ B \ Rubbled Factory \ / \_____/ / \ _/ C \ Level 1 bldg \ / w LOS into interior of Factory \_____/ What is the TEM of an attack from hex B into Hex A? What is the TEM of the attack from hex C into Hex A? I assume that if the C->A attack uses a +1 TEM, then the B->A attack should also. I am inclined to agree that this situation is best explained by using the collapsed roof rules, but I wanted to make sure that this wasn't covered somewhere else. regards davidb Sorry for the ambiguous first posting ----- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 21:03:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: Re: Marines and ML8 Dave's right. It doesn't matter what the facing is. All that matters is that the AF on one facing is capable of being penetrated by the immobilizing weapon (sans critical of course). I think the logic behind this is that the tracks on many tanks are exposed, even in a frontal facing. For an interesting aside on this, check out the vehicle notes on the French Char B1 bis. It can only be immobilized on a dr < 4. David Hauth wrote: > > Tom Repetti wrote: > > > > my understanding of the Deliberate Immobilization Rules - if an enemy tank has > > an armor factor printed on the counter which is exactly equal to the > > number on the C7.31 AP TK table which corresponds to your gun (ie, no range > > or other modifiers), you can't take a delib immob shot at that facing, right?) > > >From what I understand, facing is not crucial; doesn't the rulebook say > that you can DI an AFV if _any_ printed AF on the counter is < TK# of the > weapon being fired? I don't recall facing being mentioned; alas, I do > not have access to both my rulebook _and_ the internet at the same time > so I hope my questions aren't too maddening :') > > Dave Hauth > > ----- Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 21:48:34 -0400 (EDT) From: MSAMUELS@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU Subject: Grab at Gribovo (G10) I took a wack at this one as the Russians, and I and my opponent realy don't see a way to win this one baring huge amounts of luck. If you drop your paras outside the NVR of the Germans many of your troops will drift off board and you'll have too long of a walk to leave enough turns available to take all the buildings. If you drop your paras near the village, which is what I tried, you are subject to hideous defensive fire as you land, and your proximity to the Germans frees them from their NO MOVE restriction which you need as an advantage to get time to regroup and assault the town before the Germans can organize a defence to the axis of your assault. Either way the Soviet player is screwed, and the balance does nothing to rectify the disparity in VC requirements. All this IMO. Any comments? ----- From: GORD.REID@olimitsbbs.com (GORD REID) Subject: AH reorganization: get mo Date: Mon, 01 Aug 1994 23:37:00 GMT B~:)Does anyone know what kind of effect Avalon Hill's impending shift to ~:)computer ~:)games will have on availability of ASL components? Unless you see the enthusiasms of ASL die off I don't think you have any worry of ASL ever going out of print. gord ======================================================================== The Outer Limits BBS - 313-692-9065 - USA Today - BoardWatch Mag. 250,000 Files - 15.6 Gigs - Internet - 15 Lines 28.8 - Adult - Fido ======================================================================== ----- From: GORD.REID@olimitsbbs.com (GORD REID) Subject: Opponent wanted Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 05:03:00 GMT I just picked up the 1993a Annual and would be interested in a Ladder game of any scenario in there except A51. You pick the scenario and I get the side. good gunning gord gord.reid@olimitsbbs.com ======================================================================== The Outer Limits BBS - 313-692-9065 - USA Today - BoardWatch Mag. 250,000 Files - 15.6 Gigs - Internet - 15 Lines 28.8 - Adult - Fido ======================================================================== ----- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 22:21:51 +0000 From: Chris Merchant Subject: Errata pages Someone was confused as to what errata came with what game - well I just got Croix de Guerre and it contains A18/19, A29/30, B31/32 and F1/2 (all with the 92 superscript). ********************** * Chris Merchant * * barkmann@adam.com.au * ********************** ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 11:10:57 AST Subject: AH email address Hi guys, A sure sign people don't read messages all the way to the end (yeah, maybe some of us are too damn long-winded, you didn't think I'd let anybody else say it first, did you? :) ) the other day, I asked around for an email address for AH. I know they have one. Please??? Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 08:11:05 -0700 Subject: Adventure Gamefest '94 Hi y'all. Here's some (minimum) information on the tournament in Portland, OR this November: Adventure Game Fest '94 November 4-6 Portland, OR Including tournaments in: Numerous RPGs Magic: The Gathering (included especially for Brian Youse and Dave Van Kan ;-) and, of course, ADVANCED SQUAD LEADER!!!!!!! There are a lot of other games featured as well, but rather than typing it all in, I'll post the address/phone number so you can get the info yourself: Adventure Games NW, LLC 6517 NE Alberta Portland, OR 97218 ph: (503)282-6856 Let me encourage any of you who can possibly attend to please consider doing so. It would be a rare pleasure to see some of the other netters FTF. A note to those of you on the West Coast, and especially in the Oregon/Washington area: Tired of hearing all those East Coast boys talk about all the fun they had at (pick one: DonCon, ASLOK, WoW, etc.)? A tourney like this is a great opportunity to get similar things over here, west of the Rockies. If you're thinking about coming, but want to know more, I'd be happy to tell you what I know. Give me a call: Dade (503)244-3190 work: (503)685-1768 ----- Date: 04 Aug 1994 10:44:08 GMT From: gee@dominia.wizards.com (Glenn E. Elliott) Subject: Gen Con '94 Hi Guys, I know that Gen Con isn't exactly a wargamer's paradise, but I will be attending with Wizards of the Coast and would love to meet any of you who also happen to be in the area. I missed everyone at Origins due to a rather hectic schedule... :-( So, if anyone will be in Milwaukee August 18-21, stop by the Wizards of the Coast booth at Gen Con and say "hi!" If I'm not there, I'll be at the Magic: The Gathering World Championship tournament refereeing. Who knows... with as many employees as we're taking to Gen Con this year, I may even have time for a FTF game! Look me up, I'd love to play! Glenn ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 13:35:44 -0700 Subject: Pegasus Bridge Sheesh! Pretty quiet around here, huh? I'm getting ready to play Pegasus Bridge; tomorrow night, as a matter of fact. For those of you unfamiliar with the scenario, it features a nighttime glider landing on board 23. My problem -er, let me rephrase that --one of my many problems, is that I can't determine whether the British are cloaked or concealed when they get out of their gliders. Anybody out there know the answer? Dade ----- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 19:33:33 +0930 GMT From: bjm@rommel.apana.org.au (Brad McMahon) Subject: Re: Top Ten YKYBPASLTLW Hi Patrik (Patrik Manlig), on Aug 3 you wrote: > Tom writes: > > > Top Ten Times You Know You've Been Playing ASL Too Long When: > > ... > > > 1. You can name at least 20 people on the ASL Discussion List. By their email > > addresses. > > Shouldn't this be "1. When you start to make up 'Top Ten...' lists about ASL" > ? Maybe Tom Repetti is really Dave Letterman!?? -- Brad McMahon <> bjm@rommel.apana.org.au "I will not instigate revolution" [7G06] ----- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 19:45:45 +0930 GMT From: bjm@rommel.apana.org.au (Brad McMahon) Subject: Re: Was Squad Strength Factors Hi Jeff (Jeff Shields), on Aug 3 you wrote: > > Dave, > You're referring to what many Queenslanders call "The Battle of Brisbane." > MacArthur's HQ was in the Girls Convent near Mt. Cooth-tha (pronounced > Coot-a) in Brisbane. The US troops stationed there apparently had many a > fist fight with the locals over women. No doubt this was fanned by the > superb Aussie beers which put the US ones to shame. One of the reasons > that the ANZACs were withdrawn to the Pacific theater in 1943 was the > number of complaints raised by the soldiers that they weren't > defending their homeland from the Japanese (read US Marines :-). Wasn't the only incidence of course, and pretty much the same thing happened during the Vietnam war! > So perhaps the ANZAC forces should have a morale of 7 while in the desert > and a morale of 8 while fighting the Japs! Maybe they should have a > morale of 8 while streetfighting the yanks (aka septics 'cause it rhymes > with tanks that rhymes with yanks)! :-> It explains why there were few combined operations. Heh, heh, is this a good idea for a popcorn scenario or what? :-) > > Is today slow or what!? > Jeff Very. -- Brad McMahon <> bjm@rommel.apana.org.au "I will not instigate revolution" [7G06] ----- Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 17:11:40 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: DONCON UPDATE Guys, Back home to feed my dogs and I thought I'd drop a quick line. Looks to be about a hundred or so ASLers, I've got no accurate count. After one round I'm 0-1 8( with a loss to Pat Cross. It was a close game of Italian Brothers (I know, I know, I said I wouldn't play it but I was tired and it is small). After turn 1, I had two flaming wrecks instead of tankettes and was in trouble. I got back to where the issue was in doubt, and had i not gacked a 8(+2) prep fire on the last turn, and had Pat broken due to that 8(+2) I would have won by walking into the last VC building. Can't ask for more from a game, well I guess I wish I'd won. 8) Critical Hit is out. Looks good, lots of varied scenarios make it appealing. The cost is $8, but from reading Ray's editorial that is due to the startup costs (a PC?). Does this mean that issue two will be cheaper? Looked like Carl was getting spanked in a ladder game of Bridge to Nowhere against Russ. Gotta run, the dogs are done and I've got yet another 40 min drive for round two. 8( Brian ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 19:13:13 AST Subject: LOS blocked? Try this... Since this is reaaly quiet, I thought I'd stir it a bit. There is a feature sorely missing from ASL: the German MP 43 with a curved barrel (30 degrees). You can see a picture of it on the last page of John Weeks' Infantry Weapons (Ballantine Illustr. Hist. of Violent Century). Just picture this, you're in 1Y6 and you can fire at 1Z3, only they can't fire back :-> Now, this could only be available in the second half of '43, would have a rarity factor of oh hum shall we say 5.5 and a BPV of whatever. No counter to illustrate it, you roll for availability and record secretely who carries the weapon. Of course, it has a X9 and on a Original 12 the owning unit suffers casualty reduction (severe wound for a SMC). Oh yeah, FP: 2 and range: 4 the thing had holes in the barrel to let some gases out. Any volunteer to write the rules? Just imagine the fun coming up with fooproof rules of LOS for that contraption. It would be the first instance in ASL of "I see you and you don't, bang!" Alain -why be difficult when it's so much fun being impossible - Chabot Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Subject: Pegasus Bridge From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 18:42:00 -0640 Howdy, dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) writes: > My problem -er, let me rephrase that --one of my many > problems, is that I can't determine whether the British are > cloaked or concealed when they get out of their gliders. >From "Bring on the Night," by JR VanMechelen (available on an ftp site near you): "The Scenario Attacker [defined in the Index or by SSR] generally begins with his Infantry units Cloaked [E1.41] ... Only Infantry starting off board enter Cloaked; units other than the Scenario Attacker's Infantry which enters from off board do not use cloaking[E1.41]. "Example: Units that are PRC at any time are not Infantry and so can not be cloaked. Vehicles can not be cloaked." [quoted with kind permission of the kind author] Since they are Passengers on the Gliders [E8.1], they can never be cloaked. The same applies to Passengers of Landing Craft. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: RCRUDGE@botzoo.uct.ac.za Date: 5 Aug 94 11:36:20 SAST-2 Subject: Re: Status on Zines Hi guys, What has happened to the magazines???? I subscribed to ROUT REPORT, received a few mags, then NOTHING - is the magazine still going (I know my subscription has not lapsed) I subscribed to AT THE POINT and yes I know it crashed, but then I received 2 copies of ASLUG (they took over ATP or used their mailing list to find more subscribers), well I immediately subscribed to ASLUG - well what has happened to this magazine?, I've received nothing from them. Is everyone else been stolen blind by these people?? Harsh words but when you play $36 for an overseas subscription - thats 12% to 15% of ones salary in south africa - you do EXPECT something. I know some of the guys have hit financial problems - but here we try and solve these problems by compremising. If these guys needed a little more money ie the subscription was perhaps not enough - why not say so and then make it $40 - not just help themself to other peoples money. Maybe this FIRST WORLD EUROPEAN CULTURE should remain out of Africa!!! In africa ones word means something, I always believed the wild west was like that - thats probably how america became a great nation. What about now??? I hope somehow these magazines get going again - and if they must cost a little more, let the publishers say so, for I'd rather pay a little more and get something abot ASL then nothing. Hope I hear for these magazines again Robin ----- Date: 05 Aug 94 11:54:03 EDT From: Robert RYDLO <100412.2575@compuserve.com> Subject: ASL'er on CompuServe & Copyright Questio Hi! I once was a member of this mailing list, but due to a new job I lost my internet account. To be able to continue my pbem games I switched over to CompuServe. Here we have a small ASL'er community of about 25 people. I would like to help increasing the number of members here. Therefore it would be nice if I could upload some stuff from the mailing list. This would be mainly scenarios and JR's 'bring on the night'. Because CompuServe is a little more commercial orientated, I think I need your permission to do this. As I remember Bryan Milligan and Doug Maston did most of of the scenarios. !!!!!!!!!!! Bryan, Doug would you mind if I upload a pure ASCII version of your scenarios on CompuServe? !!!!!!!!! Also, If someone of you creates a new scenario or writes a good document could you please mail it to me. So I could upload it and get you some more playtesters/readers. BUT PLEASE DO'NT SEND ME ANY POSTSCRIPT VERSIONS !!!! Here on CompuServe time is money, and it costs a lot to load 700K. ALSO PLEASE DO'NT MAKE A .Z FILE, I CANT DECOMPRESS IT. Hope to hear from you soon..... Robert RYDLO ======================================================================= Robert RYDLO /\ /\ * /\ CompuServe ID: 100412,2575 /\/ \/ \___/ \ Internet Adr.: 100412,2575@CompuServe.Com / \ / \ / \ AUSTRIA (we don't have kangaroos) , EUROPE / \/ / \ ======================================================================= ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 12:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: Miscellany (1) Doug Maston: Please send me the uncompressed, picture version and, in a separate mailing, the uncompressed plain version. Do you mind if I upload the former to the archives? [NB: Sorry guys but I left Doug's address at work and I'm taking the day OFF! Doug's fit my scenario "Tebbe's Tigers" onto the scenario template! Thanks Doug!] (2) Human waves: (a) Can elements of a wave use bypass movement? (b) Can elements of a wave move 2 hexes (2 MF) while other elements move 1 hex (2 MF) yet still remaining adjacent (cf. platoon movement)? Can berserk and wave elements advance in the APh? I say yes, no, yes. Note for waves that the enemy has to be 8 HEXES not MF. Hence, one could use the wave as a means of charging a hill or building without the expectation of joining in CC. Note also that one could do consecutive waves with the same squads without penalties (vis. CX). Why the wave interest? I've been working on a scenario that features a Russian wave attack and I'm striving to balance it (so the Germans don't completely kick butt!). (3) REMINDER: If you haven't forwarded your top ten scenario picks, please send them to me. If you need another copy of Darren Gour's list, let me know and I'll forward it to you. Jeff (sans crab - I leave my work at the office!) ----- From: Shawn Kenny Subject: ? on Opp Fire Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 14:53:05 ADT Hi, Can someone explain to me the reason for the declaration of Opp Fire? I mean other than the fact that you openly tell your opponent that x,y and z units are not going to move this turn and they will try and fire later on so go ahead and blast away with all of your units at my moving troops. In my view any unit which has not performed any action during the PF Ph nor has moved during the MPh should be allowed to fire in the AF Ph without penalty and should get any AF bonus. Shawn ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 10:56:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Miscellany On Aug 5, 12:21pm, Jeff Shields wrote: Hi, Jeff. > (2) Human waves: (a) Can elements of a wave use bypass movement? (b) Can > elements of a wave move 2 hexes (2 MF) while other elements move 1 hex (2 > MF) yet still remaining adjacent (cf. platoon movement)? Can berserk and > wave elements advance in the APh? I say yes, no, yes. Yes, no, and no/yes. That is, berserk units can NEVER advance, but HW units can. Sorry, but I can't quote the rule for you, I'm going from memory. > Why the wave interest? I've been working on a scenario that features a > Russian wave attack and I'm striving to balance it (so the Germans don't > completely kick butt!). Sounds interesting! I trust you will post it for playtest. Dade ----- From: Shawn Kenny Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 15:18:43 ADT > > There are a few cases where you want to use Opportunity Fire. > > 1. The unit is CX. If you prep fire, you get the +1. But since the CX > counter comes off at the END of PFPh, there won't be a penalty in AFPh. > > 2. You think that some enemy HIP units will appear, so you want to be > ready to fire at them. > > 3. You want to move some units up to join in a firegroup, so you OpFire > the units already in front. > > The rules "logic" of everyone being halved in AFPh is so you don't have > to remember whether or not a unit moved. This of course is pretty silly > since you have to know whether or not a unit moved for all sorts of other > reasons. (Gee, I don't know if I moved this stack, so I'll move them again!) > > Marty I agree with the reasons for wanting to use Opp Fire but what I meant by my ? is that why should you have to declare which units that are going to Opp Fire and thus let the defensive player know that these units won't move. Shawn > > ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 12:34:11 -0600 (MDT) From: David Hauth Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire Shawn Kenny wrote: > Can someone explain to me the reason for the declaration of > Opp Fire? I mean other than the fact that you openly tell > your opponent that x,y and z units are not going to move this > turn and they will try and fire later on so go ahead and blast > away with all of your units at my moving troops. Your understanding of the use of Opportunity Fire is in error. First of all, I agree with the playtesters/designers in that a unit that _doesn't_ declare Opp. Fire has its FP halved in the Adv. Fire Phase. Opportunity Fire is there for a very good reason: it is a protective measure while moving your units. By designating one or more Opp. Firers, those concealed stacks will have to think twice about sniping at lone moving squads if they are going to take a full-FP attack in the AFPh. You can also search hexes to remove enemy "?" counters during the MPh, thereby getting a full-FP attack in the AFPh that you wouldn't have in the PFPh. >In my view > any unit which has not performed any action during the PF Ph nor > has moved during the MPh should be allowed to fire in the AF Ph > without penalty and should get any AF bonus. I disagree here. In essence, you are advocating the assignment of Opp. Firer status to units _at any time in the MPh_ rather than in the PFPh. This gives the attacker an IMMENSE advantage that would unhinge play balance; attacking units now have too many options - you can move some units and, if enemy concealed stacks open up, you can fire at them with the unmoved units at full FP. If enemy concealed stacks DON'T open up, then you can move those units into better position. Your understanding of Assault Fire is also off. The Assault Fire "bonus" is not really a "bonus"; it is an indication that some weapons/troops are better (read: less-reduced-FP) at firing-on-the-move than are others. Therefore, a 7-4-7 squad wouldn't have an 8 FP attack for standing still and firing; by the same reasoning it would have a 4 FP attack (instead of a 2 FP attack) when attacking in the AFPh. Not a "bonus", but less of a detriment than non-assault-fire-capable units. Dave Hauth ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 12:00:06 PDT From: erimli@systems.caltech.edu (Bahadir Erimli) Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire One reason may be because this way one doesn't have to keep in mind which units moved so have to be halved and which units didn't. Especially with bigger scenarios one would have to mark either the ones that moved or the ones that wouldn't move (as it is right now). take care, bahadir ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 13:07:49 +0700 From: markg@laplace.idec.sdl.usu.edu (Mark Greenman) Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire > > I agree with the reasons for wanting to use Opp Fire but what I meant by > my ? is that why should you have to declare which units that are going to > Opp Fire and thus let the defensive player know that these units > won't move. > > Shawn > > > > > > I think that the 'penalty' of AFPh fire for units which did not move is for precisely the reason you state, the attacker would then have complete flexibility to Prep some units, move others, and then fire units which could have moved at full strength later in the AFPh. You can't have your cake (Prep Fire strength) and eat it too (option to move in MPh)... Just my opinion, Mark ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 13:28:18 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire Super sleaze play warning :-) OK super mega death stack sit opposite enemy choke point. Hate to waste fire power by firing at a concealed defender. You know he doesn't have much or maybe is out of range, but it is enough to blow your doors off if you are not careful. You take a soon to be iron cross/ silver star/ what have you recipient squad (1/2 sd/ 6+1) and march him over to the ? stack. You know he's waiting for a jucier stack -- or plans to stay concealed all together and bog you down. You toss said unit above into the enemy hex "checking for dummies :-)" -- He has to reveal at least one unit. In advancing fire, you rain all hell on the once concealed enemy and blast away! Also quite nice for Hedgerow fighting. cheers, mike ----- Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 15:36:21 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire >Can someone explain to me the reason for the declaration of >Opp Fire? I mean other than the fact that you openly tell >your opponent that x,y and z units are not going to move this >turn and they will try and fire later on so go ahead and blast >away with all of your units at my moving troops. In my view >any unit which has not performed any action during the PF Ph nor >has moved during the MPh should be allowed to fire in the AF Ph >without penalty and should get any AF bonus. Well, say you have a nice stack that wants to combine its firepower with a group that currently has no LOS to the target location. Or maybe that has no leader, but could get one if that leader could make it there on that turn. Or maybe you want to keep a nice stack available so when other of your units are moving towards concealed units, an attack by one of these concealed uonits would receive a full FP attack. Or maybe you want to hang out on side of a rowhouse wall (or factory interior wall {Red Barricades}), then allow a unit to place a demo charge and then fire away after breaching that wall! These are probably just a few of the situations where declaring opportunity fire can come in handy. I think that the reason that opportunity fire is used is because of the fact that ASL has to deal with a set of simultaneous actions in a sequential manner. So if a squad is free to move, and therefore respond to various threats and changes of situation that can happen during movememnt phase, then they should not be allowed to have the capability of spending a lot of time preparing for a full power attack. Contrariwise, if a unit is preparing to make such an attack (or devoting their energies towards making such an attack), then they should not be free to move. Allowing a unit to do or perform either would be sort of like a Schroedinger superimposition of realities: and the unit is performing two actions at once. One of the pleasures (at least for me) of ASL is that one must constantly be making decisions between two actions in which there is a tradeoff. Anyway, my two cents regards Davidb ----- Subject: Miscellany From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 15:39:00 -0640 Howdy, Jeff Shields writes: > (2) Human waves: (a) Can elements of a wave use bypass > movement? (b) Can elements of a wave move 2 hexes (2 MF) > while other elements move 1 hex (2 MF) yet still remaining > adjacent (cf. platoon movement)? Can berserk and wave > elements advance in the APh? I say yes, no, yes. a) A25.231 rules out a variety of movement options, none of which is bypass, so it looks ok. b) You can't do that in Platoon Movement, so far as I know. Each element moves at most one hex per impulse [A25.231]. The only time it can move zero hexes is Wire (I believe, but there may be other exceptions (ok, buildings; try to imagine a human wave starting on the 2nd level of a building)). c) No for berserk [A15.431], yes for human wave [A25.23]. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: ASL'er on CompuServe & Co From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 15:39:00 -0640 Howdy, Robert RYDLO <100412.2575@compuserve.com> writes: > Therefore it would be nice if I could upload some stuff > from the mailing list. > This would be mainly scenarios and JR's 'bring on the night'. > Because CompuServe is a little more commercial orientated, I > think I need your permission to do this. Someone else already asked about this with regard to "Bring on the Night." I sent him a copy, and he sent it on to Compuserve. I was contacted by the nice man at Compuserve asking about permission, and I believe I replied, 'yes' (I distinctly remember intending to reply :-) So, it should be there, text version (which I must say is not as pretty as the PostScript version). If not, contact the nice man that runs the games board. He may say that he hasn't received permission from me, but I am nearly sure I sent a reply to him. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 13:12:50 -0600 (MDT) From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" Subject: Re: Miscellany Jeff: > (2) Human waves: (a) Can elements of a wave use bypass movement? Units in a human wave cannot: 1) carry more than their IPC 2) assault move (duh) 3) move individually I didn't think they can use bypass, but I can't find where they can't. > (b) Can > elements of a wave move 2 hexes (2 MF) while other elements move 1 hex (2 > MF) yet still remaining adjacent (cf. platoon movement)? No. "The chain moves at a MF cost equal to that of the costliest terrain encounterd by any segment of the chain, so that all members of the chain expend the same MF with each hex entered" Book of A, 25:23 > Can berserk and > wave elements advance in the APh? I say yes, no, yes. > Yes, wave elements at least are free to move normally in the APh. > Why the wave interest? I've been working on a scenario that features a > Russian wave attack and I'm striving to balance it (so the Germans don't > completely kick butt!). > The wave is a real psychological advantage as well--just pull it and watch your opponent squirm for the rule book. HA! HA! HA! Tim "Davidovitch" Hundsky Best 7-0 in the 62nd Army ----- Date: Fri, 05 Aug 94 14:21:47 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Critical Hit reviews? If anybody has gotten Critical Hit yet, could you post a review? Brian may give us his opinions on it when he gets back from DonCon, but the more the merrier. Tom ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 14:40:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire On Fri, 5 Aug 1994, Shawn Kenny wrote: > Hi, > > Can someone explain to me the reason for the declaration of > Opp Fire? I mean other than the fact that you openly tell > your opponent that x,y and z units are not going to move this > turn and they will try and fire later on so go ahead and blast > away with all of your units at my moving troops. In my view > any unit which has not performed any action during the PF Ph nor > has moved during the MPh should be allowed to fire in the AF Ph > without penalty and should get any AF bonus. > > Shawn > > Most times I use opportunity fire it exactly to make my opponent "think" about firing at my moving units. If my opponent is concealed, I will declare opportunity fire with a decent stack (9-2 and some MGs). If he breaks concealment to fire at some of my key units which are running around in a somewhat exposed manner -- whammo! Advancing fire becomes fun. Many times this will convince the guy accross the table to maintain his concealment and attempt to weather the fire that way. Darren ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 15:17:34 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) About Opp fire . . . Once, years gone by, I was reading a Series Replay on a Streets of Fire scenario. The Russians had set up in stone buildings under lots of ? markers, and the Germans had to cross the street in the face of all these overwhelming unknowns. The German player declared Opp fire on lots of his MG groups, deployed two squads into "volunteer" half squads, and sent them across the street to stand adjacent to the enemy occupied building. The reason? An obscure rule I had to go look up. It seems that if a good order squad is standing next to a ?, they can expend movement points to search the adjacent locations. Of course, my rules book is miles away, and the rule number is left as an exercise for the student. But look under concealment. This left the Russian player with the option to either have lots of ? removed by two half squads, or shoot the daylights out of a measly target and thereby lose his ? automatically. All this in the face of overwhelming Opp Fire groups. That's the best use of Opp fire I've seen. Tom Huntington ----- Subject: ? on Opp Fire From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 16:56:00 -0640 Howdy, Shawn Kenny writes: >Can someone explain to me the reason for the declaration of >Opp Fire? I mean other than the fact that you openly tell >your opponent that x,y and z units are not going to move this >turn and they will try and fire later on so go ahead and blast >away with all of your units at my moving troops. In my view >any unit which has not performed any action during the PF Ph nor >has moved during the MPh should be allowed to fire in the AF Ph >without penalty and should get any AF bonus. I suspect that part of this is the result of trying to "sequentialize" actions that are intrinsically parallel. When a unit prep fires, this does not simulate that it spent the first 30 seconds (say) of a two minute period (Player Turn) firing. That unit fired during the entire two minutes. If it achieved a result (such as breaking), in real life it probably so distracted the target that it couldn't effectively fire at the moving units. An opportunity firer would also probably be firing most of the two minutes, but only in response to enemy actions. Thus the enemy could get off enough shots to convince a moving unit to turn around. It is also true that in some instances, opportunity fire might represent much shorter time (a lucky shot that gets both the Captain and the Sarge), but that is also true of prep fire. Advancing fire probably also occurs over the whole two minutes, but represents fire by guys who are not in optimal position, who don't have time to wait for the guy in the hole to stick his head up, etc, and who are thinking more about how to run to the next tree than about the next shot. The difference between advance fire and opportunity fire is a difference of the opportunity to get good targets and a difference in the unit's opinion of its primary mission (one is to move, the other to fire). Anyway, I tire of making up stories about ASL rules :-) The primary reason that you declare Op Fire is because: It is Written in the ASLRB and that's enough for me :-) So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Scenario impressions: Subterranean Quarry and The Rock Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 15:52:14 PDT Last weekend I managed to get in a couple ASL games, and I'd like to share my impressions of the scenarios I played. First, my opponent selected Subterranean Quarry and wanted the partisans. Really, it's not my fault! B^) At any rate, he got a little over-aggressive, making a big, ill-advised CC attack that did damage but left his victorious squads exposed to an FT shot which promptly broke the entire stack in my PFPh. Things went rapidly downhill from there. My overall strategy was to enter in approximately equal force at each of the five entrances, figuring that I didn't want the partisans to be able to simply retreat slowly toward one end of the board while I attacked from the other. This worked wonders, though with a different partisan setup I imagine it could have come back to haunt me. After two and a half turns, the partisans had only about 4 good order squads, and those were in imminent danger with nowhere to retreat to. My opponent conceded, seeing that survival past even turn 5 or 6 was not looking very likely, let alone lasting to turn 9. It also didn't help that I had generated an 8-0 and an 8-1 in close combat already. It was fun while it lasted, but I don't think I'd play this scenario again. Next, I picked The Rock. Sure, the Record has it 6-2 in favor of the Americans, but the Japanese get some awfully neat toys, so I took the Japanese. I set up all my HIP units (three squad-equivalents) to guard the exit (BOTH sides can exit a certain amount of VP to win this one), with a light covering force non-HIP on that (left) flank, my main assault on the wooded hills in the center of my front, and a secondary assault on the wooded hill on the right flank. A decent chunk of the main assault force was set up to be able to help out the covering force to the left if necessary. My opponent had set up heavily on the flanks (in the wooded hills) and weak in the center. His setup proved to be his downfall; on turn 3 I encircled and broke a large stack on the small hill in the center, effectively clearing the road all the way to the trench. His force on the hill on my right flank was being pushed back and whittled down at a rapid rate, the road was nearly clear, and I had a nearly clear shot to the exit except for the MG crews in the trench. At this point, again, my opponent capitulated, since the Japanese only need a handful of exit VP. THIS scenario I would GLADLY play again. Don't let the record fool you; this isn't nearly that lopsided in favor of the Americans, IMHO. If the Japanese are careful from the beginning not to allow the Americans to break through their lines (especially on the left flank), they have a good chance to win. I think one of the keys for the Japanese player is to AVOID entering into CCs where there is a large chance of trading squad for squad. It's also nice if you can get lucky and roll a 2 or pull off an Ambush (I avoided an 8-1 slaughter of one of my HS this way, AND denied concealment gain to three squads with that very HS in one CCPh) every now and then. B^) As for the Americans, watch out for the jungle hill hexes which are subject to mortar or 70mm OBA fire. They're quite dangerous. Watching out for the 200mm OBA goes without saying; at least you will usually have an idea where it's coming unless your opponent is a REAL gambler, since it can't be accurate. Although my OBA never landed at all (not surprising given that we only played 2.5 turns), my opponent nearly cried when I pointed out a wonderful cluster of targets he had given me for the 70mm, whose SR was only a couple hexes away... and then heaved a sigh of relief when I failed to maintain contact. (#@$&!!!!!!) At any rate, I think The Rock is one of the most fun ASL scenarios I've played to date. Both sides are attacking in different parts of the board, the Japanese get some REALLY fun toys (70mm OBA with HE & WP, 5 Lt. Mtrs., 200mm automatically inaccurate OBA, plus two CHI-HA tanks... from reading the vehicle notes, I'm pretty sure these ARE the prototypes that, according to the notes, were used on Corregidor), not to mention the FOUR .50 cal MGs and the 10-2 that the Americans get, and I think it's actually reasonably well balanced in spite of the Record results. It probably favors the Americans a little, but there's no way it's 75% American. Especially if the Japanese player is clever enough to roll low on the more important attacks. B^) Quote of the day: "If you roll eyes in close combat ONE MORE TIME I'll kill you!" "Well, then I'll just have to withdraw first." Next on the schedule: The Battle for Rome. Looks like fun, and also looks like not many people are trying it. Is there something I should know? -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 21:47:06 -0400 (EDT) From: John Appel Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire My take on thed Opportunity Fire question. On Fri, 5 Aug 1994, Mike Seningen wrote: > > Super sleaze play warning :-) > > Mike's tactic for revealing conceal units deleted < This isn't sleaze, it's called "reconnaissance". And yes, it's something the "real" soldiers do. Remember the Scouts from SL? (An SL feature I miss.) Opportunity fire is merely the ASL representation of what the Army would call overwatch. You keep the heavy fire elements back when you don't know what's ahead, and they protect the advancing units. I'ts not always something you want to do - the situation may not dictate it - but it's a valuble tactic when you can use it. I agree that it's good to force the attacker to designate them. Sure, sometimes you forget, but that's life in the fire lane. Mistakes happen in war, and I personally like something that helps represent that. Just MHO, of course, from a 7-0/inf 6+1/armor. John "Corporal! Where's my sabers?" Appel jappel@access,digex.net ----- Date: 06 Aug 94 04:07:21 EDT From: Bruce Probst <100033.3661@compuserve.com> Subject: ASL'er on CompuServe & Co >> If not, contact the nice man that runs the games board. 'Twas me that uploaded it to CIS, and indeed it sits in the library there now. CIS prefers ASCII to PS because _anyone_ can read an ASCII file, regardless of their preference in hardware or operating system; whereas the only people who can read PS are those who have access to a PS-reader and/or PS-printer. It's not a question of "prettiness", rather, simply supporting the lcd. (And in some cases the lcd is pretty low; there are people who access CIS regularly that know absolutely *nothing* about printer formats and software conversions and the like. Sad, but true.) In any case, of course, anyone interested in a "pretty" version can read the ASCII version into their favorite word-processor and format the hell out of it. Bruce (Melbourne, Australia) ----- Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 07:59:36 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Re: Opportunity fire tactic. ==>Mike Seningen sez: >OK super mega death stack sit opposite enemy choke point. >Hate to waste fire power by firing at a concealed defender. >You know he doesn't have much or maybe is out of range, >but it is enough to blow your doors off if you are not careful. > >You take a soon to be iron cross/ silver star/ what have you recipient >squad (1/2 sd/ 6+1) and march him over to the ? stack. You know he's >waiting for a jucier stack -- or plans to stay concealed all together >and bog you down. You toss said unit above into the enemy hex "checking >for dummies :-)" -- He has to reveal at least one unit. In advancing fire, >you rain all hell on the once concealed enemy and blast away! I sez: The only problem with this tactic is that, once your opponent "proves" he has a unit in that stack, he may go under concealment: he does not lose the concealment marker. The only way to get them to be revealed is for the squad to search the hex, and against a large enemy nondummy stack, your silver star recipient will get it posthumously. Also, an attack on the moving unit by only one unit in the enemy stack would probably break or worse that unit, and then only part of the stack is revealed. Opportunity fire by the "Mongo Killer Stack" would then only be maximumeffective against the one revealed unit (same DR, different odds tables). regards. davidb ----- From: "Christopher Poor" Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 18:30:29 CST Subject: ? RECALL and OVR (2nd try, got a "host unknown" 1st time) Here's a simple question: Can a tank that is under RECALL use overrun? I cannot find a specific prohibition in the rules, but 1) the vehicle must use the shortest route to exit the board, and OVR const 1/4 of movement allowance. 2) the RECALL counter lists OVR as one of the attacks that is modified by +1 My conclusion is that a vehicle may overrun any enemy infantry unlucky enough to be in a hex that is in an acceptible route to the nearest board edge. Comments? Thanks, Chris Poor chrisp@fcm.missouri.edu ----- From: Rudel@aol.com Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 00:14:04 EDT Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors I hears ya. I've often wondered why SS squads don't come in a variety of flavours, to wit: early, mid and late war. But then, I've also often wondered why a Sherman has the same frontal armour as a Tiger IE ... Craig Cooper ----- From: Rudel@aol.com Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 00:25:07 EDT Subject: Re: Marines and ML8 Anybody ever notice that the U.S. Army's "basic" morale level of 6 was arrived at in the late seventies, post-Viet Nam, the commies-are-on-the-rise era, whereas the Marines' mind-boggling 8 morale and industrial-strength firepower was conceived in the era of post-Reagan military giddiness? Velly interesting ... sez Artie Johnson from beneath his concealment counter. Craig Cooper Just musing in the land where everyone is a Morale 8 anyway. ----- From: Rudel@aol.com Date: Sun, 07 Aug 94 23:47:14 EDT Subject: Melfa Bridgehead ASL BP2 Dear Brent, My mind is boggled. I've been using Pagemaker 5.0 to convert your scenarios (Melfa Bridgehead, et al) into properly laid out scenario form. Since I spend more time goofing with this computer than anything else anymore, I haven't actually played them yet. So when I got to Melfa, I was surprised at the Board Configuration. Correct me if I'm wrong (please!): As I see it boards 19 and 16 are laid side by side with their "numbered edges" to the north. 19 is to the west, 16 to the east. Only hexrows Q-GG are playable on19 (the south half). On board 16, "only hexrows A-Q and hexes on/west of the A6-Q5 road" are playable. Basically, that seems to be the north half of board 16. But that would mean only hexrow Q was playable between the two boards. Obvioulsy, I've misinterpreted something here. Or got one of the boards upside down. Or some damn thing. Can you (or anybody) help me out on this one? I plan to stick the finished work back on the 'net for all and sundry to enjoy. Cheers, Craig Cooper (currently disrupted) I can be e-mailed at: rudel@aol.com or ccooper@hookup.net ----- Date: Sun, 7 Aug 94 20:41:28 -0700 From: Steven J. Szymanski Subject: Double Blind, Multi-Player, PBEM, ASL First, If you view the ASLRB as a holy tome, not to be altered except by decree from the gods of TAHGC (and therefore expect BSL to be heresy) - read no more! I too will propose a variant of our favorite game, and do not wish to offend. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) OK? So, I'm about half-way though serving as Ref for a Double Blind, Multi-Player, PBEM game of "Roads to Gettysburg", and have started thinking of what I want to try next. My personal interest in games leans more towards WWII-or-later (I only do a little ACW stuff, RtG just happens to _beg_ to be played in this format); and ASL is one of my favorite games. So, naturally, I starting thinking about how I would ref a Double Blind, Multi-Player, PBEM game of ASL. The conclusion _I_ quickly came to (your views may vary) is that while the current turn/phase architecture is an effective means to represent the interactions for a face-to-face game, it actually becomes quite burdensome when there is a Referee to handle things. The phases are meant to make "simultaneous" action playable without a lot of judgment calls on the part of biased players; but when you have an unbiased Referee to make such decisions, it seems that there should be a simpler way to do things. So, I'm thinking through the process of how I'd change the Turn/Phase sequence of ASL for Double Blind, Multi-Player, PBEM play _without_ changing a whole lot else. I'd like to keep all of the operational rules (combat, morale, actions, movement, etc.) pretty much the same. How I report the sighting of enemy units will implicitly change the concealment rules, but I will still track concealments in the normal way. To make clear where I am headed, what I'd like to have is N players on a side, each controlling a platoon (?), with one player on each side as overall commander). Each turn the players would submit orders to me as to what the units under their control will do, and I will determine the results and report back. What I'd like to be able to do is execute the turns _simultaneously_ for both sides, with as few separate mailings per turn as possible. Where this is all leading is: 1) I'd like to hear the collective advice of this list on this matter, and 2) I'm interested to know how many people would be interested in such a game I'll post my current thinking tomorrow - it boils down to using 4 homogeneous "segments" (each of which is a separate mailing) with some commitments made at the beginning of the turn as to what will be done in each segment. What do you folks think? .szy RealLife: Steven J Szymanski "Apple has no idea what I am AppleLink: szy saying here and should not Internet: szy@apple.COM held responsible for my raving" AOL: Sszy So There. ----- From: ozbal@MIT.EDU Subject: I can see you situations. Date: Sun, 07 Aug 94 19:56:27 EDT How about a botched sewer emergence into a location with enemy troops. They can blast you away at will while you have to sit there and take it. So long, J. ----- From: "Christopher Poor" Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 18:22:02 CST Subject: Blind ASL Hello to all, Well, I've recieved a few notes expressing interest in the Blind ASL system, so I thought I'd expand on it a little more, and see what comes up. First of all, I'm working on translating all of the text files of the rules from Mac MSWord to IBM ASCII, so that I can load them and make them available, hopefully for ftp from somewhere near here (haven't figured that out yet ;-) Now, as to the rules. Some of the changes are simple, and can be tried safely by you folks at home; such as "blinding" each other to the enemy OB and Victory Conditions. This means in general that you will never play a scenario more than once, or at least that the FIRST time you play a given scenario, try to make it blind in this way. Just not knowing what you are up against, and if/when/where enemy reinforcements are going to arrive can make a big difference in the "feel" of the game. One good way to accomplish this blinding is to photocopy the scenario card, cut it into sections (OB, VC, SSR, Intro, Aftermath, etc.), fold the sections in half and label them as to who can see them. Then when you select the scenario, each player only sees the sections he needs to see to set up. I usually go a little bit farther, and write on the OB of each player some useful information which the local commander should have, such as where the enemy is (to the north, off board, etc.), likely enemy dispositions (armor, artillery support, etc - not always accurate), and some idea of what he needs to do (I usually abbreviate VC into basic terms such as "Inflict Casualties", Exit to the north", or "Stop the enemy attack") to win. Now, you are probably saying, "If you prepare all of the scenarios, then you've already seen them, and your opponent hasn't, then you've got an advantage." Well, no, because I have prepared about a hundred of these things so far, and I haven't played many of them yet. There are a whole sloo (slough?) of scenarios out there, and I can't remember the details of them, especially if I've only seen the scenario card. Also, I don't include the scenario title or that cute little picture; those usually give away too much information, and ARE easy to remember. Gotta get back to work, I'll write more later unless there is a firestorm of protest. This is not the whole thing, this is only an introduction; but try a new scenario like this and see what happens (have your wife/girlfriend cut & fold it if you're only going to play one scenario). Regards, Chris Poor chrisp@fcm.missouri.edu ----- From: "Christopher Poor" Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 18:58:43 CST Subject: Blind ASL Hello to all, Well, I've recieved a few notes expressing interest in the Blind ASL system, so I thought I'd expand on it a little more, and see what comes up. First of all, I'm working on translating all of the text files of the rules from Mac MSWord to IBM ASCII, so that I can load them and make them available, hopefully for ftp from somewhere near here (haven't figured that out yet ;-) Now, as to the rules. Some of the changes are simple, and can be tried safely by you folks at home; such as "blinding" each other to the enemy OB and Victory Conditions. This means in general that you will never play a scenario more than once, or at least that the FIRST time you play a given scenario, try to make it blind in this way. Just not knowing what you are up against, and if/when/where enemy reinforcements are going to arrive can make a big difference in the "feel" of the game. One good way to accomplish this blinding is to photocopy the scenario card, cut it into sections (OB, VC, SSR, Intro, Aftermath, etc.), fold the sections in half and label them as to who can see them. Then when you select the scenario, each player only sees the sections he needs to see to set up. I usually go a little bit farther, and write on the OB of each player some useful information which the local commander should have, such as where the enemy is (to the north, off board, etc.), likely enemy dispositions (armor, artillery support, etc - not always accurate), and some idea of what he needs to do (I usually abbreviate VC into basic terms such as "Inflict Casualties", Exit to the north", or "Stop the enemy attack") to win. Now, you are probably saying, "If you prepare all of the scenarios, then you've already seen them, and your opponent hasn't, then you've got an advantage." Well, no, because I have prepared about a hundred of these things so far, and I haven't played many of them yet. There are a whole sloo (slough?) of scenarios out there, and I can't remember the details of them, especially if I've only seen the scenario card. Also, I don't include the scenario title or that cute little picture; those usually give away too much information, and ARE easy to remember. Gotta get back to work, I'll write more later unless there is a firestorm of protest. This is not the whole thing, this is only an introduction; but try a new scenario like this and see what happens (have your wife/girlfriend cut & fold it if you're only going to play one scenario). Regards, Chris Poor chrisp@fcm.missouri.edu ----- Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 18:25:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Martin Snow Subject: ? loss by entry (was: Opp Fire) If an enemy unit tries to enter a hex containing concealed units, rule A12.15 says: Random Selection is used to determine which of multiple concealed units must lose their concealment, but all hidden units in the Location must be placed on board beneath a "?" prior to that Random Selection. So you don't just verify and reconceal, as someone else suggested. The rule even has a neat effect that if you only reveal an SMC, he can be overrun unless you reveal more guys. Marty ----- From: r.mosher2@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 6 Aug 94 15:27:00 UTC Subject: Re: Opportunity fire tactic. ======= To: JEFF@BACK.VIMS.EDU@I ======= Sub: Re: Opportunity fire tactic. > I think you can break concealment of the entire stack. Rather than > to move into the hex with the concealed stack. I believe that the HS > is moved back and the stack loses concealment if there are GO squads > there. Else the dummies are lost and the HS gets a pat on the back > rather than a medal. Jeff, Not the entire stack - see The Book of A 12:15 - "the defender must immediately reveal at least one concealed unit". The unit revealed is not selected by the defender --"Random Selection is used to determine which of multiple concealed units must lose thier concealment..." ron --:) got the Book with me at the computer! ----- Date: Sat, 6 Aug 1994 10:08:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: Re: Opportunity fire tactic. Davidb writes: > The only problem with this tactic is that, once your opponent "proves" he has > a unit in that stack, he may go under concealment: he does not lose the > concealment marker. The only way to get them to be revealed is for the squad > to search the hex, and against a large enemy nondummy stack, your silver star > recipient will get it posthumously. Also, an attack on the moving unit by only > one unit in the enemy stack would probably break or worse that unit, and then > only part of the stack is revealed. Opportunity fire by the "Mongo Killer > Stack" would then only be maximumeffective against the one revealed unit (same > DR, different odds tables). I think you can break concealment of the entire stack. Rather than attempt a search dr which can result in casualties, have the HS attempt to move into the hex with the concealed stack. I believe that the HS is moved back and the stack loses concealment if there are GO squads there. Else the dummies are lost and the HS gets a pat on the back rather than a medal. Jeff ----- Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 23:38:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Rout Question While playing "One Down, Two To Go" tonight a friend and myself came upon this situation. Though it is not new, we did not have access to all the expert opinion we now do through the net, thus we've probably been playing it wrong. Here is the situation: Red Barricades -- Northern edge. When a unit breaks in the debris where does it rout? For those with access to the boards lets say a unit breaks in L2. The Russians have units in I6, thus he can't rout towards the buildings in the West. The Russian also has units in the East, lets say P3, thus the broken German can't go to the East. Can this Russian unit rout towards the board edge??? This is the main question -- nowhere in the "book" does it mention the board edge if there is nowhere else to rout, but it seems a logical place in so much as that is where this attack has originated. How has everyone else handled this? Are they stuck where they are? While we used to generally just stay where we were, or in the odd case that we wanted to rout toward the boardedge we did. It is now time to come up with the definitive answer, as we are again ready to go back to RB as our staple module after a long absence. Any help would be helpful. 8) Thanks, Darren Gour ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Prisoner Q's Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 12:27:06 CETDST Hi, everyone I have a few questions regarding prisoners. 1. 20.5 GUARDS & UNARMED UNITS: . . . vs. Personnel. The captor unit becomes the Guard until relieved of that task during any friendly RPh/APh in which the prisoners - if not involved in Melee with the Guard - are either transferred above another guarding unit in the same manner as a SW (4.431) or abandoned. Such transfer does not penalize either unit's APh/RPh capabilties . . . Now regarding the last sententence in the above quote: Does it mean that prisoners can be transferred during the RPh with out counting as the "one allowed action" ? I would say no but I'm not sure. 2. Rule 20.5 states " . . . An unbroken Guard squad can Deply into HS automatically at any time, regardless of nationality or leader requirements . . ." Does this mean that they deploy in other phases than the Rally Phase ? And in what phases can the prisoner squads be exchnaged for prisoner HS and vice versa. Looking at the A.S.O.P. I have only found wording on the above in the Rally Phase. Klas Malmstrom ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 07:34:32 -0400 (EDT) From: James D Shetler Subject: Thanks Howdy everybody! Just wanted to say thanks to all of you. Mary and I are very happy. And yes, she does know about this strange hobby of mine. Actually, she's very tolerant, especially when I come home from Paul's around midnight with my tail between my legs. As you can see, Paul has taught me a thing or two about the game. But, I'm learning. Well, back to the grind. BTW, Mary and I spent last week at Virginia Beach, and from the looks of things the better part of a MAU put out to sea. Saw at least two LSDs, a ship of the Tarawa class (no. 4 on the superstructure, not sure which one this is) and a ton of support ships. Hope I'm not divulging national security secrets, but it sure was impressive. Oh, and there are some shit-hot pilots down there. Oceana NAS is close, and I don't think I've ever seen so many F-14s/F-18s. And now, the question. Did anyone at Avaloncon see KGPII and, if so, get a release date. Mary keeps asking what I want for my birthday, and this tops the list. Back to reality in Pittsburgh, Jim Shetler ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 08:07:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Back From DonCon Got back after the full weekend (and more) of ASL. Lots of fun. Gary Fortenberry took the marbles winning the tourney after being the only undefeated player after round 6 (6-0). Personally, I came in at 4-2 with one of the losses being to the list's own lurker Gary Lee. AH news is that Rex Martin has given his two week notice as of last Wed. He will be going back to school for his doctorate at Penn State. With the rumors and off the record discussions with others in the know, I still stand by my thoughts that AH is giving up on board games regardless of what is being written in letters by the Dotts. I see AH as being less than 10% board games and the balance computer game efforts. We'll probably see two or less non computer games a year and even those will have no development effort by AH and be taken as-is from the game designer. Critical Hit, the knew effort by Steve Pleva, Ray Tapio and Rob Wolkey was introduced. It has ten scenarios that look like they should be fun and some articles that look like the standard fare in most 'zines. The size makes it on the order of a scaled back semi-annual so the price ought to be on par with the semi-annual. No color, though...not a big deal. On a more personal note, I played Rusty Shields in A Bridge to Nowhere. I was the Russians. My initial thoughts on how to play the Russians seem to work. I think they ought to have they're mortars and ATRs fall back deep so that they can get a bead on the last victory hex. Then, coupled with the tank, which should stay hull down behind a wall and _not_ move after getting in place, the necessary 16 FP can be brought to bear on the last road victory hex. This worked to defeat Rusty but not until the last turn and after some nasty threats from the Italians. Rusty played a tough game. Game 2 saw me as the Russians again in Bread Factory #2. I made some bonehead mistakes in the setup putting some of my good stuff in the VC buildings. After playing this before I should have known that they were all going to die as the Germans will take the buildings then have to defend them against a Russian counter attack. Thus, my counter attack was weak. But I passed several personal 3MC to continue the game until the very last turn, losing it when my opponent made a decent 6+2 shot while I gacked the resultant morale check and when I failed to ambush him in the last CCPh by one pip and even failed to kill him in CC by one pip. Either one of these would have won me the game. Tough loss. The next day, I played Gary Lee in Paole Zion. Gary and I played for about 5 turns with his Partisans getting in some decent shots and lining up for even more good Street Fighting and Molotov shots if I made a run for the exit hexes. About Turn 5 we started talking and realized that this scenario could be played so that the Germans have almost no chance to win. If the roadblocks are set up far back, the game will come down to one and a half turns of shooting by the Partisans which they will win about 80 percent of the time. In the end, my trucks failed to make the run through his Partisan gauntlet. Gary is a tough player. Round 4 I played End of the Ninth as the Germans. I won this one as the French last year at DonCon. My opponent this year didn't keep his leaders hidden but had them active in the fighting. Interesting defense. My armored cars didn't do too much against his armored cars but I managed to run a couple of them in his rear to block his exits. As he tried to fall back I managed to keep him busy. His last opportunity to kill my last AC ended when I obtained a CH on his last available AC, the other failing its radio roll to move in position. With my infantry blocking the exits and my armored car helping, that ended the scenario. Round 5, I played Chuck Powers in Acts of Defiance, a Rout Report scenario reprinted and cleaned up in Critical Hit. I was the Germans and Chuck, the Russians. A lot of death and destruction but my Germans came out ahead...barely. Round 6 saw me playing Jean Raymond from Canada. We played his choice, Eastern Gate. He got the Japs and I, the Ghurkas. I have yet to figure out the Ghurka strategy in this one. I lucked out a win but I'd rather take the Jpas in this one any day. At any rate, lots of good ASL being played. I even got an answer about the wall question that everyone got tired of last week. But I'll save that for the next message. ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 08:15:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Wall Question revisited...Mac's Answer To recap the question... Is there LOS from A to B ____ ____ ____ / \ x \ / \ / A \xxxxx \____/ B \ \ / x / \ / \____/ Cx____/ \____/ \ / \ / \____/ \____/ The answer, which I detailed last week is, yes. _But_, and I agreed that this didn't make a lot of sense, when I asked Mac about this, he indicated that it was something that was missed when the rules where written. He indicated that, if there was no "V" wall but only the spine and one side (if wall side "C" is not there), that there should be (and, of course, there is) LOS. It is the case of the "V" wall that maybe shouldn't be LOS but the rules say, and people play, that there is LOS. Hope this clears things up a little more. ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 14:15:43 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: Sniper Question > Nadir writes: > > Hi folks, > in a recent ftf game (hi Bahadir!), we had the following > situation come up: > > a dr '2' sniper attack selected a hex containing the following units: > > Concealment Counter ? > Concealment Counter ? > 8-0 Leader > > (the concealment counters were there from game start, not 'grown'). > > Randomly the attack selected the middle Concealment Counter - what is the > result of this attack? We treated it as the elimination of a dummy stack > and removed only the dummy counter - no result was applied against the SMC. > > Thanks for your help! > > -Nadir > Sorry, but the leader is wounded. When a concealed stack becomes a sniper target, the owner of the stack must declare the number of personell counters; only these can be hit by the sniper. If the number is zero (a dummy stack), the stack is eliminated. Otherwise Random Selection is rolled for personell counters only. In this case there was only one personell counter (the 8-0), so he is automatically selected as the sniper's target. This is clear from the QA compilation: A14.2 If some/all of the possible targets of a sniper attack in a Location are concealed, how does the sniper player determine its target(s)? A. First, if the eligible possible targets include both concealed and unconcealed units, treat the concealed stack as one possible target (regardless of how many units it actually contains) for Random Selection purposes. Then, if (or whenever) a concealed stack is chosen as the sniper's target, the sniper player's opponent must declare the number (only) of eligible possible targets that stack contains. If it contains none (i.e., is a Dummy stack), it is automatically eliminated (14.3). If it contains one, that unit is attacked. If it contains two or more, the sniper player rolls for Random Selection accordingly. {92} ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 09:12:00 -0400 From: Doug.Williamson@DL-NOTES.SMTRW.LANGATE.sprint.com Subject: Re: ? on Opp Fire >and bog you down. You toss said unit above into the enemy hex "checking for dummies :-)" -- He >has to reveal at least one unit. In advancing fire, you rain all hell on the once concealed enemy and >blast away! Nice try, but I don't *think* it works. Yes, the defender must reveal at least one unit to prove that it is not a dummy stack, but I believe he does it *temporarily*, i.e. the attacker is thrown back and the defender regains ?. I could be wrong, though. Don't have my RB handy... Doug Williamson ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 11:44:37 AST Subject: SOB's XXX.1 A Stash of Booze (hereafter referred to as a SOB) is a form of booby trap available only by SSR. XXX.2 SOB's can only be placed in building locations. They are placed HIP during the initial set-up XXX.3 As soon as an enemy MMC (accompanied or not by a SMC) spends a complete player-turn in a location containing a SOB, it is considered to be enebriated. XXX.4 Discovery Of The Enebriation. The owner of the enebriated personel discovers his predicament when he attempts to move (even in the AdPh) or fire the enebriated personnel, when that personel is fired upon or when non enebriated personel tries to enter their location. XXX.5 Effects Of Enebriation: Enebriated personel will not move out of its present location under any circumstances (would you?) Enebriated personel ordered to fire will do so but in a random direction determined as for the direction of error for OBA. IF fired upon, enebriated personel will immediately fire in a random direction. XXX.51 SMC's that entered the SOB location at the same time as the original enebriated personel must roll a die upon the discovery of the enebriation. On a roll <4 they are transformed in a (slobering) 6+1. Any other roll eliminates the SMC. XXX.52 Any MMC that enters a SOB location already containing enebriated personnel must roll a die. On a roll <2 they engage the drunk personel in CC. On any other roll, they join the revelry. XXX.53 A SMC that enters a SOB location already containing enebriated personel, he must roll a dice. On a roll <3 he becomes a drunk 6+1. Otherwise, he is eliminated. There is a -1 DRM to this roll for every 6+1 already in the location. XXX.6 A SOB location is still a valid routing destination. Any unit forced to rout in such a location change from its present broken state to good order (if slightly drunk) upon entering the location. Since guns with curved barrels did not strike the funny bone of anyone, I thought I might as well raise the ante Alain 'get that guy outta here" Chabot Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 07:56:22 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Re: Wall Question revisited...Mac's Answer > From: "Carl D. Fago" > Is there LOS from A to B Thanks, Carl. Getting the Mac Sez is worth the 10 ladder points Tom's going to dock me for another wall LOS question. :-) Dave ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 10:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Squad Strength Factors > But then, I've also often wondered why a Sherman has the same frontal armour > as a Tiger IE ... Actually, the frontal armor on an M4 really wasn't that bad (given its 50-57 degree slope). What made for the classic mis-match between the M4 and the Tiger I (as well as a few others) was that the M4 was under gunned by comparison, and way to fat & tall as a target. The better German ordnance had little trouble defeating even that 11 frontal armor of the M4. It really was an 8-11 for the most part. ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 12:01:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Thanks > And now, the question. Did anyone at Avaloncon see KGPII and, if so, get > a release date. Mary keeps asking what I want for my birthday, and this > tops the list. I wouldn't expect this for at least a year, if then. They didn't have anything out to show. No work is being done on it at this point (that I know of.) Too bad. :-/ ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 12:12:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Rout Question In message Sun, 7 Aug 1994 23:38:06 -0600 (MDT), Darren James Gour writes: > Red Barricades -- Northern edge. > When a unit breaks in the debris where does it rout? For those with > access to the boards lets say a unit breaks in L2. The Russians have > units in I6, thus he can't rout towards the buildings in the West. The > Russian also has units in the East, lets say P3, thus the broken German > can't go to the East. Actually, the rout target has to be G1 in this case. It is farther to G1 than the current broken unit Location and the routing unit can follow a path that doesn't take him any closer to the guys in I6. In general, though, he would have to rout away from the enemy units and, if a building isn't available to rout to, a board edge is as good as any place, just some place away from the enemy. The board edge is not a "rout target" though. ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 13:23:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Serafini Subject: Re: SOB's so... does this mean that italian troops will have a an inherent sob, much like the german panzerfaust? or would they just become fanatic once they find the sob? just curious, kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Kevin Serafini | e-mail: | | Westinghouse Electric Corporation | serafik@h01.pgh.wec.com | | Software Technology & Development | s-mail: | | (412) 374-5041 | P.O. Box 355 | | WIN 284-5041 | Pittsburgh, PA 15230 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "All animals are created equal, although some are more equal than others." | | - George Orwell, Animal Farm | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 10:56:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Computer game variants All: I realised just the other day that computer games should kill a significant amount of articles because it is virtually impossible to make variants for them. Goodbye player-made optional rules! Share & Enjoy! Brent Pollock ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 11:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: ANNUAL editor's e-mail address All: Can someone please send me the ASL ANNUAL's (Fortenberry?) e-mail address? I've seen it posted before but failed to take note of it. Thanks. Brent Pollock ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: Sniper Question Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 11:38:23 PDT Ole Boe writes: > This is clear from the QA compilation: > > A14.2 If some/all of the possible targets of a sniper attack in a > Location are concealed, how does the sniper player determine its > target(s)? > A. First, if the eligible possible targets include both concealed and > unconcealed units, treat the concealed stack as one possible target > (regardless of how many units it actually contains) for Random > Selection purposes. Then, if (or whenever) a concealed stack is chosen > as the sniper's target, the sniper player's opponent must declare the > number (only) of eligible possible targets that stack contains. If it > contains none (i.e., is a Dummy stack), it is automatically eliminated > (14.3). If it contains one, that unit is attacked. If it contains two > or more, the sniper player rolls for Random Selection accordingly. > {92} Argh.... ANOTHER rules-change-through-Q&A. ASL in Flames, anyone? B^) -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Critical Hit... ordering info? Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 11:42:27 PDT Does anyone out there have the ordering info for Critical Hit? I thought I'd saved it when it came around, but I seem to have misplaced it. Many thanks, -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 02:51:59 EDT Subject: Re: SOB's Alain definitely needs some work to keep him busy! :-> I've read numerous accounts of the Russians stopping to eat and drink the spoils of the battlefield while the hard-pressed Deutschies got away. One tactic that was employed by retreating troops was to leave their field kitchens with warm food for the advancing troops to encounter. The Russians were usually so enrapt with the vittles that they didn't press the withdrawing troops and thereby cause further disasters. I can see it now. Another Popcorn scenario! Elements of German Field Kitchen Unit #268 encounter Elements of Hungry 2nd Guard Division ready for breakfast. Serve it up boys! Don't forget the kindled hexes. Gotta have fires to keep the food hot! SOB addenda: troops encountering an SOB are neutralized for the duration. Cheers, Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:30:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: SOB's > does this mean that italian troops will have a an inherent sob, much like > the german panzerfaust? or would they just become fanatic once they find > the sob? You mean the french. Italians value woman over booze. The french TALK woman over booze, but prefer booze in the end. Paul "Vito, tell the woman we'll capture the town again tonite around 8 o'clock, OK?" Ferraro ----- From: nexus@isis.cgd.ucar.EDU (Jeff Berry) Subject: Re: SOB's Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 13:41:13 MDT >> does this mean that italian troops will have a an inherent sob, much like >> the german panzerfaust? or would they just become fanatic once they find >> the sob? >You mean the french. Italians value woman over booze. The french TALK >woman over booze, but prefer booze in the end. That is vile slander. We prefer wine over women, perhaps, but never mere booze. Speaking of which, there was an article in the paper the other month about the French strategy in the wine-growing regions. One author has produced a book documenting the French attacks and so forth which shows that they were designed so that no battle took place on a really first rate vineyard. JB "Damn those Germans! The Beaujolais is aging behind the blockade!" ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 13:10:08 -0700 From: Steven J. Szymanski Subject: 2XBlind, N-Player, PBEM ASL (long!) 2XBlind, N-Player, PBEM ASL (long!) First, if you are interested in this topic, please either reply or EMail me directly. I intend to take this discussion off the list for a while for the sake of those who are not interested. If/when a consensus is achieved I will report back to the list with what we came up with. So, let me know if you want to participate in the side discussion. Thanks. The following is my current thinking on how to incorporate simultaneous action and reduce the number of mailing necessary for Double-Blind, Multi-Player, PBEM ASL. Once again, I will warn folks - this represents a variant of the ASL rules which completely changes the sequence of play (but little else). If you object to variants, you can punt now! As a design goal, what I wanted to accomplish was: 1) The total amount of activity in a Turn should remain the same as in full turn of standard ASL. (An infantry unit can't move and also fire at full strength twice within the same turn) 2) Consecutive actions should be limited in similar ways to standard ASL. (An infantry unit can't move and them immediately fire at full strength). 3) Within these limits, players should have the freedom to have units act variety of sequences, allowing movement and/or combat of both sides to happen simultaneously. Actions and Segments: What I have come up with so far is that a Turn is divided into 4 identical segments; and there is a variety of actions a unit can perform in the segments. For any given segment, the unit is limited to which actions it can perform based on what it has done in previous segments and on other events which might have occurred. Some actions are voluntary (Move, Fire, Overwatch), while others are involuntary (Held in Melee, Rout, etc.) While not strictly necessary, I _may_ ask the players to indicate at the start of the turn what general class of actions each unit will perform each segment of that turn. The issue is if being able to define the sequence of play as you go gives the player too much control. That has to be balanced against the player having less information in the state of the board to begin will. We will see. Each unit has 6 "action points" which can be used within a turn, and each kind of action has an action point cost. The action point count is not the _only_ limitation on the number and kinds of actions a unit can perform in a round, but using action points significantly simplifies the remaining rules. (I originally tried to write this up without action points, and ended up with something which would look quite at home in the ASLRB :-) ) Certain kinds of actions are involuntary, a unit may conduct these actions and these actions only in excess of the 6 action point limit. The actions, action point costs, and other limitations on actions are as follows: Act Cost What p 0 pass, do nothing but rest M 2 Move using the unit's full movement allotment. This may not be chosen if an M or Mf segment has already been conducted this turn. Mf 3 Move using the units full movement allotment and fire while moving. This option may only be chosen by vehicular units who pay appropriate penalties for fire in MPh. This may not be chosen if an M or Mf segment has already been conducted this turn. m 2* Move using a portion of the unit's movement allotment equal to the total allotment divided by the number of m segments designated in the given turn. Any remainder (r) is applied to the first r segments. This option may only be chosen by vehicular units. The actual movement is assumed to take place _after_ any F, f, F!, or f! fire that segment; but before any advances. If the previous segment was not an M or m segment, then the Start point must be paid. Likewise if the following segment is not an M or m, the Stop point must be paid. The Action point cost is only paid once for all m's in a turn. mf 3* Same as m, except the vehicle is allowed to fire in 1 and only 1 of the m segments in a turn. NOTE: These two previous options _assume_ the player has to pre- plot how the segments of a turn will be used. It can also be done w/o pre-plotting by having the player commit to the number of consecutive m segments they will perform. F 3 Fire at full strength at a target designated at the beginning of the segment. Infantry units can not choose this option if the previous segment was an M. Vehicular units mat choose this option even if the previous segment was an M or an m; but pay the AFPh penalties if this is the case f 1 Fire at half strength at a target designated at the beginning of the segment. Vehicular units may choose this option. ! 0 Advance one hex. If the hex entered is enemy occupied, engage in Close Combat. If the unit is held in Melee, the next segment is treated as an h, regardless of what was originally plotted (assuming the player has to plat anything). Can not be chosen if a !, F! or f! has already been done this round. F! 3 Same as F expect the unit may advance and conduct close combat at the end of the segment. If the unit is held in Melee, the next segment is treated as an h, regardless of what was originally plotted (assuming the player has to plat anything). Can not be chosen if a !, F! or f! has already been done this round. f! 1 Same as f expect the unit may advance and conduct close combat at the end of the segment. If the unit is held in Melee, the next segment is treated as an h, regardless of what was originally plotted (assuming the player has to plat anything). Can not be chosen if a !, F! or f! has already been done this round. H 1 Held in Melee. This option must be chosen if the unit was involved in close combat in the previous segment and the result was not conclusive, and may not be chosen any other time. A unit may have been involved in close combat either because it conducted an !, F!, f! or C action the previous segment or because an enemy unit advances into the location. Since this is an involuntary selection, it may be chosen if the unit has already spent 6 action points this turn. C 1 Conduct Close Combat. This option must be chosen if the previous segment's action was H and may not be chosen any other time. Since this is an involuntary selection, it may be chosen if the unit has already spent 6 action points this turn. O <4 Overwatch. The unit may fire at moving targets which match criteria designated at the start of the segment. The action point cost depends on the amount of fire conducted. To fire at full strength costs 2 action points. To fire at half strength costs 1 action point. No more than 3 action points can ever be expended in any one Overwatch segment, and the limit of 6 actions points in a turn may never be exceeded in an Overwatch segment (thus if all action points have been used up in previous segments, this effectively becomes a pass). The player may also specify at the beginning of the segment a fixed target which the unit is to fire upon _once_ at the _end_ of the segment with any remaining of the 3 possible action points. B 1 Broken and have been broken for an odd number of segments. This selection must be made if the unit became broken in the previous segment or if the previous segment was b and may not be made at any other time. The unit may/must rout according to the standard rules and current board position, and may attempt to rally at the end of the segment. Since this is an involuntary selection, it may be chosen if the unit has already spent 6 action points this turn. b 1 Broken and have been broken for an even number of segments. This selection must be made if the previous segment was a B and the unit did not successfully rally and may not be made at any other time. Since this is an involuntary selection, it may be chosen if the unit has already spent 6 action points this turn. So, based on this, the "standard sequence of play" would be modeled by the first player choosing one of the following two sequences of segments for each of their units: M,f!,O,O or F,!,O,O; and the second player choosing either: O,O,M,f! or O,O,F,!. The benefit is intented to be that either player _can_ choose different sequences for each unit. So that they _can_ move the same time as their opponent moves, etc. Administrivia: In addition to the main activities described above, there are various other administrative tasks which occur during the turn. They will take place as follows: * Events/Tasks which take place in the RPh or the CCPh which pertain to both side will take place at the end of every Event Segment. * Events/Tasks which take place in the RPh or the CCPh which pertain to only the phasing or non-phasing side will take place at the end of the 4th segment of each turn. * Events/Tasks which take place in any other phase which pertain to both side will take place at the end of every Odd Segment. * Events/Tasks which take place in any other phase which pertain to only the phasing or non-phasing side will take place at the end of the 3rd segment of each turn. Timing: The goal I had was to support simultaneous play by both sides, but not necessarily to have _all_ actions occur simultaneously. There is _some_ ordering of different kinds of actions within a segment. Specifically, things happen in the following order: 1) All Fire from F, f, F!, and f! 2) All movement from M, m, Mf, and mf All fire from Mf and mf; and All overwatch fire from O 3) All designated fire from O 4) All routs from B 5) All advances and close combat from !, F!, and f! 6) All rally's from B 7) All administrivia Items in the same numbered group are considered simultaneous and their results do not take effect until all activities in that group are completed. If infantry units of different sides attempt to _end_ M movement in the same hex, the units from both sides are bounced back to the hex immediately previously occupied. What'cha Think? .szy RealLife: Steven J Szymanski "Apple has no idea what I am AppleLink: szy saying here and should not Internet: szy@apple.COM held responsible for my raving" AOL: Sszy So There. ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 16:29:35 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: DonCon Guys, Just my DonCon observations... 1) People are a lot more wimpy than they used to be... I used to go to conventions and play through the night, now by 2 am there is only one or two games going. 8) 2) Lots of dead time for most folks. Russ had a lot of problems last year with overlapping rounds, this year most people had time on their hands. I didn't since I had to drive 45min round trip between rounds to feed my dogs. That pretty much wasted 3 hrs of my day. 3) After midnight, once the gamers thinned out, the rooms got real f'ing cold. Very cold. Rob Wolkey showed up wrapped in a blanket it was so cold. In his defense, he had just come from the west coast where they've been frying, but he still looked kinda bizarre all bundled up in Augest. 4) Much better concessions, even if Pizza Slut raised their prices. $3 for a sub wasn't bad, the cookies were great. AND, the concessions folks were around for a good bit of the time. Oh yeah, there was salad for the less manly. 8) 5) I forgot, there were WAITRESSES walking around taking orders from Pizza Slut and the hotel concessions. Nice touch, but this should have been part of #4. 6) The hotel bar is a total rip-off. I won't even get into the $14 bottle of budweiser. 8( 7) Decent competition. Usual group of guys, plus some I'd not seen before. Oddities? One guy I saw would read the entire scenario card outloud prior to play, discuss each SSR, and then read the advanced sequence of play each PLAYER TURN!!! I don''t know about his opponent, but that drove me nuts even though I was some distance away. I suspect his rounds were often in the 10+ hour range. How did Fort become the only undefeated in only six rounds? Doesn't seem possible, but I suspect it somehow involved Guy Chaney's friend. Fort just about gave away complete copies of the entire ASLUG scenario pack after Saturday. Made me feel like a fool for giving him so much for a subscription. More oddities... The next general came out. None for some nine months and then three in 6 weeks? The ASL "stuff" was an article on an ASLUG scenario and two ASLUG scenarios reprinted to be "official". I've got to bitch about this, since the ONLY reason I keep the General is for SL stuff and so I've double paid for these scenarios. I'm sure it is due to the upheaval in Gary's life, but I sure hope it doesn't become habit. As it is, I doubt I'll re-sub to the General. Hell, the fanzines are starting to be more enjoyable. Anyways, back to the con... Wed night, I got in a game of We The People (very fun but not worth the $40 price tag by a long shot. Buy it discounted or used.) and a German game called Intrigue or something. Mostly you just lied about stuff and it was pretty dull. Oh yeah, Steve Petersen, Perry Cocke, Vinnie "The Ninny" Fratelli , and I played some silly little card game called Six Mixies or something. Pretty bizarre but a good time killer. I did notice that some people had already started to smell, don't most gamers shower? The facilities were OK, but the open gaming round tables (bout 8 foot) are just about impossible to play on unless you're playing a multi-player game. Thurs. I played Pat Cross, an underrated (1475) player. I think he only plays AREA against Chaney and his friend, because he is a much better player than 1475. We played Italian Brothers, he flamed two tankettes quick and it was still close. I lost. Wen't home to feed the dogs. 8( (oops, misspelled a few there...) I then played something, but cannot recall what it was. I think I won. Friday. I played a guy from the Windy City Wargamers, I believe. They had some 14 players out here wearing custom T-shirts. Felt like league night at the bowling alley! 8) We played Le Encole Normale. His partisan 8-1 and three squads went berserk, and died to a 4(-2) eyes. With the partisan OB, this pretty much ended the scenario after turn 2. By turn 5, I'd killed all the Partisan OB, but he still insisted on playing the scenario out. There was a blaze on the map, and I guess there was a near-impossible chance that it would spread to the victory hex. It didn't. I then played something. Oh yeah, Strangers in a Strange Land against Chuck Powers. We spent the rest of the AM playtesting a Backblast scenario, thus using up most of my luck. 8) Still, I pulled out a win against Chuck but had the pleasure of seeing him advance into SIX CC's during the same player turn. We had 4 units outside of CC! I ambushed him three times and the vast majority of my troopers escaped. 8) Oh yeah, it was a ladder match. 8) Saturday. I played another WCW sans t-shirt. Bob Bendis I believe. He is a very skilled "unknown" player. Kicked my butt in Red Star/Red Sun, but I think I'd have beaten him with my "usual" setup. I tried the HMGs up front/center, and he snuck right up behind the creeping barrage. It passed overhead, and I ate 36 FP shots for breakfast! He then advanced, but I could only hurt so many Ruskies. With the loss of the heavies and the two 10 leaders it was only a matter of time. So, I was 3-2 and played the 4-1 Steve Petersen. Steve is, I have to say, the BEST player who never finishes better than 2-5. Seriously. He is in my upper echelon of players, yet chokes the big one at any tournament. Yet this year, he was rising like a phoenix out of the ashes of a wreched tournament record to be 4-0. Would have been 5-0 if he didn't break 10 weapons as the British in Khamsin. Great, he's on a roll and I wasn't playing too hot. We chose Totsugeki!, a scenario we were both very familiar with. I had the Japs, and kicked butt. He tried a new defense which I ripped open in the center and flowed through like the rising tide. Two guns gone by the Bottom of the third, and the fourth fell pretty quickly. He did cheat me somehow, since the Chinese only get 4 ? counters and at game end he had two stacks of dummies: one 3 counters high and another 2 counters high. Can't "Grow" dummies, right Steve? 8) Oh yeah, this was a ladder match after his beating of Bret Hildebran in a ladder match. Thanks for the points Bret! 8) Sunday. 4-2 record. I overslept and was awakened by a call from Steve asking if I was still picking him up. I did, but was an hour plus late. Fortunately, I still found an opponent in the Sarge. Tom Kearney. We played a very close game of Death at Carentan, with the edge only given to me when his OBA drifted terribly inflicting some 20(+2) shots on his own troops. 5-2, but not a top-ten 5-2 record. I have to be content with that, as I felt like I picked myself up after a pretty bad start. My DonCon record at ASL is 21-7. I'll take that in tourny play any day! Fort won, at 6-0. In a total surreal moment, Steve Petersen won the "novice" award even though he's been playing forever. The novice tournament is based on the highest ranking player with an AREA ranking less than 1500. It seem silly to call Steve a novice, but I expect he'll spend his $50 donbucks just the same. Maybe in 5 or 6 more years we can call him an old-timer? 8) Brian ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 16:37:46 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Critical Hit Guys, More info on CH. 32 pages including the cover. Ten scenarios, two of which have extended SSRs on extra pages. A German NOBA article, an article on scenario design, a humorous article (but not a true "Repetti"!), a Scenario Replay of a Deluxe scenario (Flame and Shell?). Some other stuff as well. The scenarios seemed mostly large but all looked "HOT", including a monster remake of a COI scenario on Odessa who's name escapes me at the moment. (I'm still beat after the weekend, brain functions are still lacking. No funny comments on that!) Also, Carl Fago showed me another Backblast production. This was/is a minor HASL module. Actually, it was three pages and a rather fuzzy color overlay. This is about the actions around Hill 112 during Normandy between (I think) the Germans and the Canadians. Carl said it was $5, a price I'd be willing to pay for this but it still seems a bit high for the components. I think you can send $5 to CH for this, but Steve Pleva didn't give me any info on ordering. BTW, Steve and I started sharing info on our respective mags. This should/will eliminate the duplications of scenario and article topics between our mags. I, of course, invite the editors of Tactiques to join in our efforts to make this hobby even stronger by not undermining each others work. Finally, I spoke to Tim Van Sant about a project he is working on currently. It is pretty cool looking and we briefly discussed his submitting this to Backblast. I'm excited about the prospects of this project, so let's all bang on Tim a bit to finish up! Heck, raising an infant isn't all that hard, and you get lots of time at night to work on the project! Gotta run, my fingers are hurting... Brian ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 17:02:54 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: BERSERKER II STATUS Guys, This is the most "current" status I have of Berserker II round 1 updates. Please let me know if you have a game finished! This is taking WAY too long, we need to wrap up round one. After a day or two, I'll be starting round two off with the currently finished round one'ers. Brian FRENCH Patrik Manlig m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se GERMAN Paul F Ferraro pferraro+@pitt.edu GERMAN David Elder david@starfire.utias.utoronto.ca FRENCH Nils-Gunnar Nilsson etxngni@aom.ericsson.se FRENCH Chuck Powers cpowers@ceramics.gsfc.nasa.gov (L) GERMAN Jean-Luc Bechennec jlb@lri.lri.fr (W) FRENCH Mustafa Unlu mustafa+@CMU.EDU GERMAN Timothy Van Sant tvansant@access.digex.net GERMAN Mike Seningen seningen@ross.com FRENCH Rusty Shields D4F@CU.NIH.GOV GERMAN Warren Smith w.smith93@genie.geis.com (W) FRENCH Alan Bills billsasl@aol.com (L) FRENCH Carl Fago cdf1@psu.edu GERMAN Dave Ripton ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com FRENCH Bruno Nitrosso Bruno.Nitrosso@der.edf.fr (W) GERMAN Mike Allexenberg mallexen@lafontaine.webo.dg.com (L) GERMAN Bret Hildebran HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com (W) FRENCH Rich Campbell CAMPBELL@CAPSRV.JHUAPL.EDU (L) FRENCH Don Hancock hancock@ono.geg.mot.com GERMAN Bill Jelinek wjelinek@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu GERMAN Gary Fortenberry s.hudman@genie.geis.com FRENCH Chuck Goetz c.goetz@genie.geis.com GERMAN Glenn Elliott gee@eskimo.com (W) FRENCH Brian Youse brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (L) FRENCH Les Kramer lesk@LNA03.lna.oz.au GERMAN Grant Linneberg N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca