Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 16:11:58 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: record new aslug scenarios Guys, Okay, okay. I just saw Will's posting of the new record, and I noticed ASLUG scenarios 19-24 listed there. Where the heck did these come from? Has Gary gotten the final big issue out? What's up? Cheers, Matt ----- Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 15:20:07 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: DonCon > I did notice that some people had > already started to smell, don't most gamers shower? Brian, This is covered in the FAQ under "Why aren't there any women ASL'ers?" Tom ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 14:38:27 PDT From: will@kafka.saic.com (Will Scarvie x6388) Subject: Italian Brothers: question Hi folks, I just got a Record submission for the scenario Italian Brothers, but the submittor can't remember which side won, in "nationality" terms. He does know that the Republicans won, and that they are the side without the tankettes. The Nationalists lost. My problem is that the Record lists the scenario as Italians vs. Russians. Can anyone tell me which side is which, please? Thanks a lot, Will Scarvie will@kafka.saic.com ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 16:56:22 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Italian Brothers: question This is a weird one since both nationalities are Italians. I would list Nationalists and Republicans as the nationalites. Fred > > Hi folks, > > I just got a Record submission for the scenario Italian Brothers, but > the submittor can't remember which side won, in "nationality" terms. > He does know that the Republicans won, and that they are the side without > the tankettes. The Nationalists lost. My problem is that the Record lists > the scenario as Italians vs. Russians. > > Can anyone tell me which side is which, please? > > Thanks a lot, > > Will Scarvie > will@kafka.saic.com > ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 20:53:32 -0400 (EDT) From: richard Orris Subject: Question about Air Support Ok, this is my first post to the mailing list so do not flame me for any mistakes I might make. A friend and I have recently restarted a Red Barricades CGIII game. In the game in which I am the Germans, who purchased Stukas. Upon reading the rules regarding Air Support, I have a question. Can planes only be used to attack (via ground support) during the opponents turn? The RB seems to say this under E7.4. This is seemed kinda strange to me that I can only attack with them during my opponent's turn but not my own. Any help would be appreciated. Richard C. Orris rorris@freenet.columbus.oh.us ----- From: s.petersen3@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 01:16:00 UTC Subject: Re: DonCon Hey Brian, As I recall, that fifth "Dummy" counter in "Totsugeki!" was my 7-0. But at four in the morning I was still feeling pretty good from that $14 tequilla w/Bud chaser, so maybe I did screw something up. Steve "Four years at ASL and still a novice" ----- Date: Mon, 08 Aug 1994 17:20:35 EDT From: mikeclay@maple.circa.ufl.edu Subject: Tettau's Attack Played my first game of asl ftf for a couple months. Played a a beginner (like me) Tettau's Attack. Picked that scenario because it is short, has few units, one board, easy to understand VC's, and is an infantry only scenario with few support weapons. I took the british paras and won. Reduced my opponent to nothing but conscript half squads by turn eight, and he hadn't made any progress beyond my defensive line. I didn't take any losses myself, other than my sniper got KIA'ed by his sniper. I highly recommend this scenario as an introduction to ASL, as it is one of the least complicated ones around. Can anyone reccommed other good beginner scenarios? I have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to hear your suggestions. Mike (7-0) Clay ----- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 23:01:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Wallace Subject: Night Rout Question In a night scenario can a DM unit continue to rout even if it starts the rout phase not next to a known enemy unit? My reading of the rules are that any DM unit at night may low crawl one hex. I interpert this to mean that in the next RtPh if the DM unit didn't roll low enough in the RPh to lose his DM then it could low crawl another hex. Actually my reading of the rules are that the unit has the choice of keeping the DM even if he rolls low enough to lose it. I belive that this supports my reading of the rule allowing it to keep routing. I am playing a night turn of a KGP campaign and my opponents don't seem to agree with this. They say that the unit can only rout if he is adjacent to a known enemy unit. I could really use a few answers to this one as it could keep us from allowing them to enter our Dm units hexes in the APh. NVR is 0 hexes so unless the adjacent hex is illuminated they say we can't see the unit, therfore it is unkown, therefore we can't rout away. Chuck Wallace cwallace@freenet.columbus.oh.us ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 00:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Van Sant Subject: Re: Critical Hit Brian, Hill 112 is Brits (15th Scottish) and Germans. I thought about a HASL on this an abandoned it. To do it right, you'd have to have a hill the size of a KGP mapsheet. No mere overlay's gonna capture the flavor of that battle! If additional KGP/RB HASL's were possible, it would be very cool though. I've no contacts with AH, but the complete absence of board games in progress (please correct me if I'm wrong on this) makes me think that AH is done with board wargames per se. Of course, they'll always do a "HOTW" (fun game, but not a wargame really) if it comes along! I fear the era of the richly complex, military boardgame is over. "See" you at next year's "tele-convention". :-) Tim ----- Subject: Question about Air Suppor From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 00:55:00 -0640 Howdy, richard Orris writes: > Can planes only be used to attack (via ground support) > during the opponents turn? In particular, only during the opponent's MPh/your DFPh, as per E7.4. Presumably, allowing attacks during the PFPh would achieve more air/ground coordination than could usually be relied on. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: Night Rout Question From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 00:55:00 -0640 Howdy, Charles Wallace writes: > In a night scenario can a DM unit continue to rout even if > it starts the rout phase not next to a known enemy unit? My > reading of the rules are that any DM unit at night may low > crawl one hex. I interpert this to mean that in the next > RtPh if the DM unit didn't roll low enough in the RPh to > lose his DM then it could low crawl another hex. Actually my > reading of the rules are that the unit has the choice of > keeping the DM even if he rolls low enough to lose it. I > belive that this supports my reading of the rule allowing > it to keep routing. > > I am playing a night turn of a KGP campaign and my > opponents don't seem to agree with this. They say that the > unit can only rout if he is adjacent to a known enemy unit. > I could really use a few answers to this one as it could > keep us from allowing them to enter our Dm units hexes in > the APh. NVR is 0 hexes so unless the adjacent hex is > illuminated they say we can't see the unit, therfore it is > unkown, therefore we can't rout away. I am not aware of anything in E1.54 that overrides the part of A10.5 which says a unit _may_ rout if under DM. Low Crawl is not restricted to when the unit is ADJ to an enemy: it can be used at any time, even if there is no enemy unit in LOS. On the question of whether a unit may at its option retain DM if it rolls below its printed ML on a Rally attempt, this is vague in the rules, but in my night article you will see that there is a MacSez on it. According to the MacSez, the normal DM removal rules are used: if the unit is in building, woods, pillbox, or trench, the DM must be removed; otherwise it may be removed. I would be interested to hear if your opponent has additional support for his interpretation, because based on A10.5 I would say he is wrong. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: Critical Hit From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 00:32:00 -0640 Howdy, brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) writes: > More info on CH. > > 32 pages including the cover. Ten scenarios, two of which > have extended SSRs on extra pages. Articles include: "Wet Behind the Ears: A Beginner's Guide to ASL Tactics" by Russ Bunton. Useful to the beginner and probably more so to the intermediate player. My only criticisms of this article are that its title overstates its scope and that it was previously published in FFE. I don't think anyone would expect an article to be an all-encompassing guide to ASL tactics. It's full of useful hints, but, for example, hardly mentions vehicles, routing, CC, or a host of other things. Good article, but needs a different title. Since I hadn't seen it in FFE, it was new to me, but others might find this annoying. "St. Joost IN My Mind: an ASL Fantasy Trip" by Joe Leoce. This seems like a scenario replay written up like a history as might be written in a paperback. Not to my taste. "Enter the Kriegsmarine: German NOBA for ASL" by Leon Harris. The German surface navy played a much smaller role in the war effort than did their counterparts on the Allied side. Nevertheless, they did perform the first amphibious landing of the war (at Danzig) and at the end of the war they evacuated many thousands along the Baltic. The article provides a German NOBA chart, and begins to develop rules and OBs necessary to create hypothetical SeeLowe scenarios. "Playing It by Ear: ASL by phone," by John Gardner. Real Men don't play by e-mail ;-) "Scenario Replay: ``With Flame and Shell''," by Scott Drane (German) and Rob Banozic (Russian). This is a replay with all the moves removed and only the comments left in. The setup is fully described, but after that there are only brief mentions of specific actions or locations. I don't find this sort of article as useful a learning tool as a fully described game, although I'm sure there are some kernels to be gleaned from this battlefield. "Back to Balta: Some Comments on Scenario Design Analysis" by Ray Tapio and Steven Pleva. "Back to Balta" is a scenario included in this issue. This article describes how the scenario came to be. "Sicily: From a Loser's Point of View" by Andrea Matteuzzi. Some history of the Sicilian campaign and a brief TOE of "Italian units". The unit in question seems to be a standard Italian infantry battalion, but this is not stated. "To Rout or Not (As if You Have a Choice)," author not indicated? Some thoughts on how to make sure your units can rout when they need to. "Crazy Ramblings from Ray Verbanic," by same. His experience with ASL. "STZ Komsomolets: The First in Our Series of the ``Forgotten Counters'' of ASL," author not indicated. Rules for this Russian light gun tractor. How to order the counter for three dollars. "Roll 'em, Cowboy," by Dave Longworth. The highs and lows of rolling your dice on the table, in a box lid or glass, by flipping a cup, or with the M1A3 203mm dice tower (purchased by the Army for $1,314, a bargain compared to the toilet seats). All in all, at least as good as the Annual. Two of the scenarios ("The Green Hell", Americans vs Japanese in New Georgia; "The Predators", Germans vs Russians at Kursk) have a "partially-purchased" OB, making them "one scenario campaign games." This will make setup even more important. It could become an abused fad. I hope scenario designers use this device with restraint. Also, for good or bad, CH has advertisements on the back cover. A first for the fanzines I've seen. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra) Subject: ASLRB Errata Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 23:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone, how do I figure out what pages of the ASLRB have changed, and what the most recent updates are? Can these changed pages be ordered from AH separately or only with modules? Thanks! -Nadir ----- Date: Sun, 07 Aug 1994 10:45:40 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: OBA Flowchart e> What a pity that noone remembers my flowchart - the one e> I prepared three years ago and appeared in the Digest and e> is currently on both sites under the file "aslml-2.05"... e> Is that the one that is formatted like lines of BASIC (GOTO 700, etc.)? If so, a pal of mine updated it to the revised OBA rules and I still use it. It has also been useful for new OBAers. -Grant. ... A bird in the hand's better than one overhead. -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Sun, 07 Aug 1994 10:46:21 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: Opp Fire I think the rules are pretty clear about the rationale here. It's because the units are spending the time actively waiting for targets. that's why they can't move, and that's why it has to be declared. It should be remembered that the Seq. of Play is an artificial mechanism. In reality, all of the actions happen at the same time, more or less. -Grant. ... Bank Rule: To get a loan, first prove you don't need it. -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Sun, 07 Aug 1994 10:45:50 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: ML b> Hey! What about those brave (and very pale) research b> types? That's where the true courage is in any b> military-industrial complex. Imagine toiling hours on end b> in harsh conditions such as flourescent lighting and over b> air-conditioned labs. Sheesh! Bring the world Spam and b> then you're forgotten. b> b> Bryan b> b> P.S. What would the counter be? 0-(-1)-10 ? Not only that, but the abuse of neighbours and people in the street who thought they looked (almost) able-bodied enough to be in uniform at the front. Being whacked with a purse can really jolt a 125 lb man. -Grant. ... As easy as 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841. -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 08:36:45 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: DonCon This was the most enjoyabable Avaloncon that I've attended. Probably because I was able to stay in Hunt Valley from start to finish. Actually, it was because I was able to make both Brian and Carl whine. :) I played 9 scenarios, went 4-3 in the tourny, and went 1-2 in ladder matches. After the first 3 rounds, I was 2-1 as was Brian so we talked Russ into letting us bang heads. Brian and I finished round 3 rather quickly, so we playtested a Backblast scenario. A very cool scenario which Brian won on the last turn. This scenario should be a track C scenario next year. A very intense scenario which has been decided on the last turn all 3 times I've played it. That's all I can tell you about it. Brian and I played Strangers in a Strange Land. Brian was the Germans and some how talked me into giving him the balance. Brian initially shot up my Froggies pretty well, but one went Berserk which allowed my units to close in on the objective. For some unknown reason I did not use my tanks to block his reinforcements and I was now dealing with a building full of Germans. I pulled off a late desperation move in which I got all his good order units into CC. There was a CC is 6 locations, in which Brian ambushed me 3 times and it was over. One day Brian. :) Oh, I did throw Brian out of the ring in a Wrasslin' match that evening. Carl Fago and I were both 2-2 after 4, so we talked Russ into letting us play. We played Acts of Defiance, with Carl getting the Germans. Once again Carl showed me how to use the enemy's AFVs as cover. This was another close match, with my reinforcements not quite making it to the victory area. I don't know what it is with Carl and I, but every time we play it looked like someone took their hand and scrambled all the playing pieces. For round 6, I played J.R. Tracy. J.R. played Red Star, Red Sun with a rather slow moving opponent. They started around 9:00 a.m. and didn't finish to after midnight. J.R. and I played Totsugeki, with me as the Chinese. We started at 1:30 a.m. and both of us were pretty drained at the time. This scenario turned out to be a blood bath, with a couple of lucky CCs winning it for me late in the match. After awhile all the phases began to blend together, but my favorite was when J.R. tried to first fire at my units in the APh. Hopefully J.R. and I can get a rematch next year when we're both more awake. We finished a little after 5:00 a.m. After 2.5 hours of sleep I got up to play round 7 ... I was determined to go the distance. A quick match of Guards Counterattack in which I diced my opponent and I was on my way. Lots of ASL, lots of socializing, and lots of fun. Almost as fun as WO. :) Chuck ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 08:39:31 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: World Cup Well, we finally have a result from Round 2 of the ASL World Cup. Team Canada's own Adrian Earle has defeated Team Australia'a Les Kramer. Hopefully the rest of the matches will finish up soon. Chuck ----- From: "Christopher Poor" Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 8:36:12 CST Subject: ASL zines Hello again, Can anyone post the relevant information on the current crop of ASL zines? I'd like to subscribe, since they sound pretty good, but I have virtually no information on any of them. Thanks, Chris Poor chrisp@fcm.missouri.edu ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 10:35:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: DonCon and the ASL Record I just wanted to hassle all the internet guys who went to DonCon... GET YOUR RESULTS INTO WILL FOR THE RECORD!!!! We have the best ASL Record in the world right now, let's keep it that way by increasing the database. For the guys I played, I already put ours in. *-=Carl=-* ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 09:38:24 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: khamsin tips Guys, Okay, usually after playing a scenario once I have some ideas on tactics, even if I blew it the first time. But I have played Khamsin as the British twice, gotten waxed both times, and still have no idea how to play them. It seemed that with all that dust swirling around, I just couldn't hit a damned thing. Moreover, if my tanks were more than a couple of hexes apart, they couldn't support each other very well due to the dust. Couple that with the B11s (which I inevitably roll), and the German armor seems pretty hard to kill. I have tried pretty much giving away one hillock, and only heavily defending the last one, but that doesn't seem to work (or didn't for me anyway). The infantry is another problem. How can you set them up so they can accomplish worthwhile things? If they spread out at all, it seems that they can just get swarmed one at a time. The dust really helps the German attack. The record seems to indicate that it's balanced, so what gives? Cheers, Matt ----- Date: Tue, 09 Aug 1994 10:41:47 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Re: Computer game variants Brent sez: >I realised just the other day that computer games should kill a >significant amount of articles because it is virtually impossible to make >variants for them. Goodbye player-made optional rules! That may not be true. With the newer software paradigms arrinving, open architecture will become the norm, not the exception. With the ability to look at different parts of a software package as individual objects, modification without compromising program stability will become easy. And also, there already exist primitive "player mod" programs (such as "Game Genie"). Certainly these packages will grow more sophisticated. regards davidb ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Trivia! (Was: LOS blocked Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 17:38:44 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, JR writes: > >> It would be the first instance in ASL of "I see you and you don't, > >> bang!" > > > ...NOT! Anyone care to describe a situation in ASL where this is > > already true? :-) > > Night & Illuminated Locations. Well, who else... :-) Yup, this is one of the two situations I know of - the other involves the +1 for firing out of an illuminated Location. The other two situations described were cases were one unit could _fire_ at the other without taking return fire. True whenever you're firing at broken units, really :-) (Well, maybe not quite...) -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 09:58:44 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Resid FP question ------ Situation: cx838 enters woods hex W1 using bypass along B C / \ the AB hexside. A 247 in woods hex W1 first fires ######/ W2 \ with a 4(+1) shot since hexspine BC is a wall. The / \ / shot misses, and 2 Resid is placed in W1. The cx838 has A/ W1 \______/ 4 MF remaining, and wants to both enter W1 and make a \ / smoke attempt in W2. Question is, what are the Resid \______/ FP attack DRM's depending on which action the cx838 does first? If he goes for smoke first, does he get the wall TEM, or would he get hit by FFMO? - Tom ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 23:48:55 EDT Subject: Top 10 Scenarios THIS IS ANOTHER REMINDER FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SUBMITTED THERE TOP 10 CHOICES FROM THE BELOW LIST. Pick 10 and send it to me! The following people have responded: Bahadir, Cariaga, Hancock, Hildebrandt, Hundsdorfer, M Black, M Samuel, N Smith, Shostak, Snow, S King. (3) The list of Favs is too long. Let's consider it a ballot. If y'all don't mind the wasted ether, let's revote on the list to shorten it to the top 10, 20, and 30 scenarios. Mark only 10 scenarios that are on the list and return it to me for colation. I'll post the results in a couple of weeks (and after a couple of reminders). jeff@back.vims.edu The usual provisos apply to balance, and playability. * denotes that I didn't have the statistic available. ============================================================= Initial Balance ID Scenario Name rank D:A Remark ============================================================= ASL 4 Commissar's House 1 21:20 most played E Hill 621 2 2:9 least balanced? A 25 Cold Crocodiles 3 18:16 most played ASL 71 Jungle Citadel 5.5 4:5 CG III The Barrikady 5.5 4:5 G Hube's Pocket 5.5 2:1 RB 3 Bread Factory #2 5.5 13:16 most played A 60 Totsugeki! 9 2:6 ASL 23 Under The Noel Trees 9 23:19 most played ASL 8 The Fugitives 9 10:12 ASL 37 Khamsin 14 7:7 ASL 54 Bridge To Nowhere 14 4:5 ASL 65 Red Star, Red Sun 14 5:4 C Streets Of Stalingrad 14 12:3 DASL 8 The Schoolhouse 14 4:3 RB 6 Turned Away 14 10:15 most played T 2 Puma Prowls 14 7:14 A 39 Showdown At Tug Arg Pa 31 4:7 ASL 1 Fighting Withdrawal 31 39:31 most played ASL 11 Defiance On Hill 30 31 17:26 most played ASL 13 Le Manoir 31 12:13 most played ASL 21 Among The Ruins 31 10:12 ASL 22 Kurhaus Clash 31 8:11 ASL 25 Gavin's Gamble 31 3:3 ASL 30 Sylvan Death 31 8:10 ASL 34 A New Kind Of Foe 31 1:2 ASL 35 Blazin' Chariots 31 14:13 most played ASL 46 Birds of Prey 31 8:5 ASL 5 In Sight Of The Volga 31 6:4 ASL 60 On The Kokoda Trail 31 9:16 most played ASL 63 The Eastern Gate 31 7:3 ASL 82 For Honor Alone 31 12:2 least balanced? ASLUG 14 Morgan's Stand 31 * Atp 8 Italian Brothers 31 * DASL 10 The Final Battle 31 2:1 DASL 7 With Flame And Shell 31 2:4 F Paw Of The Tiger 31 1:7 G 6 Rocket's Red Glare 31 12:20 most played KGP 3 Panthers in the Mist 31 3:3 KGP I Clash At Stoumont 31 2:0 RB 2 Blood & Guts 31 5:10 T 6 Dead Of Winter 31 12:5 T 7 Hill 253.5 31 4:6 TT 3 Panzers Marsch! 31 * A 7 Slamming The Door 2:8 least balanced? A 8 Agony Of Doom 6:0 A 19 Cat And Mouse 1:1 A 20 Counterattack Sidi Bou Zid 1:8 A 28 The Professionals 4:2 A 32 Zon With The Wind 20:20 most played A 34 Lash Out 13:7 A 37 Dreil Team 11:9 A 41 OP Hill 4:0 A 44 Blocking Action At Lipki 9:6 A 47 White Tigers 7:2 A 52 Swan Song 3:5 A 55 The Cat Has Jumped 0:2 A 58 Munda Mash 6:2 A 59 Death At Carentan 3:6 A 64 Chateau de Quesnoy * A 66 Counterstroke At Stonne 1:1 B Tractor Works 1:4 G 1 Timoshenko's Attack 1:5 G 8 Recon In Force 6:6 G 14 Tiger, Tiger 3:7 J The Bitche Salient 2:5 L Hitdorf On The Rhine 4:3 M 1st Crisis Army Gr Nort 2:1 N Soldiers Of Destruction 26:4 most played least balanced P The Road To Wiltz 5:2 Q Land Leviathans 1:3 T 4 Shklov's Labors Lost 20:26 most played ASL 6 Red Packets 4:10 ASL 14 Silence That Gun 30:20 most played ASL 32 Subterranean Quarry 2:4 ASL 39 Turning The Tables 1:4 ASL 42 Point Of No Return 2:4 ASL 48 Toujours L'Audace 5:9 ASL 53 A High Price To Pay 5:6 ASL 57 Battle For Rome 3:3 ASL 62 Bungle In The Jungle 6:2 ASL 66 Bushmasters 13:1 least balanced ASL 67 Cibik's Ridge 25:12 most played ASL 70 KP 167 3:2 ASL 74 Bloody Red Beach 3:3 ASL 77 Le Herisson 13:11 ASL 79 Bridge Of Seven Planets 4:2 DASL 3 Storming The Factory 7:8 DASL 5 Little Stalingrad 0:2 DASL 6 Draconian Measures 2:5 DASL 9 Preparing The Way 10:4 DASL 13 Bogged Down 3:2 DASL 15 Barkmann's Corner 3:5 DASL 18 King Of The Hill 3:2 DASL A To The Last Man 1:4 DASL A6 Breakout 3:5 HASL A5 Take Two * RB 1 One Down, Two To Go 7:6 RB 4 To The Rescue 1:4 ASLUG 11 Raiders On Butaritari * NEWS 32 Death and Ruins * O 50.2 Dora II * ?? One More Hour * Rout R Brandenburger Bridge * Rout R Wintergewitter * TT 1 Take The Chance * X 13 Acts Of Defiance * Z 7 Cushman's Pocket * ============================================================= Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Subject: MACSEZ From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 11:41:00 -0640 Howdy, MacSez: A Marder (+3 CE TEM front, +2 CE TEM side, unarmored rear turret) is OVR. The direction (and therefore the CE TEM DRM) to use for the OVR attack is determined by the colored dr of the IFT DR in the same manner as fire from within the same hex [D3.2]. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Logic is a pretty wreath of flowers that smells bad ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 11:53:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: khamsin tips I played Khamsin as the Brits at DonCon and won. I placed everything pretty far back. The German could not break platoon fornation until the beginning of turn 3. This bought me two turns to move tanks and infantry into position. Hint (1) Keep the M3s off the hillcocks or at least behind the summit. My oppomnent stopped his Marder about 8 hexes out and nerfed one M3 (sure it was a lucky shot!) that was in full view. The +1 size modifier on those M3s is something the german will take advantage of. Hint (2) Be gutsy. Intensive fire will be you middle name. That is four shots per Grant if you feel daring. Sure it'll bite you sooner or later, but you haven't much choice. I gacked one M3 (broke the 37 and the 75, then REALLY broke on the very next repair roll) and the 2 pounder this way (didn't repair it by scenario end). Hint (3) Roll out the Honey. Scoot the Stuart out and BEHIND the German force. At DonCon I got screwed on this one when the Marder spun around (+4, +1 (dust) to hit) and missed (of course) but kept rate and NAILED the Stuart. Oh well. It was making him REAL nervous until that happened. Hint (4) Scoot the ATRs out there to. If the german wants to waste time trying to over run them, fine. Infantry get to move with impunity in this one (at least at ranges of 4 or more I feel). You may get a rear shot at some armor. At the very least you screw his mobility. Hint (5) Put the armor leader in one of the Crusaders. Yeah, yeah, I know, it has the worst gun. BUT it has the best rate/armor combination. And leave all the AFVs CE (Damn the Sniper boys, full speed ahead). That's all. I gotta keep _some_ secrets. :-) ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 10:31:10 -0600 (MDT) From: David Hauth Subject: Re: Computer game variants Here's another take on the move to computer simulations: Right now, as a starving grad student, I can barely scrape together the $500-plus needed to purchase ASL. Now, _any_ game produced recently for a computer requires an LC2500 or better (for Macintrash) or a 486 w/ SVGA and >33 MHz speed -- bottom line is that the price of my wargame just quintupled (or worse...). This would suck. Dave Hauth ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 11:29:37 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Seaborne Assualt Qs? Does a landing craft have to beach at a beach? Considering the Gavutu board, could a landing craft beach and unload onto one of the huts? What would be the passengers exit MF? My guess would be 25% of 4 x 2 for higher elevation? Can a unit move a support weapon, drop it in a hex, have it picked up by another unit, dropped in another hex, ad infinitum? I understand you can not recover and transfer, but this is simply a series of recover and drops. cheers, mike 4x400m DC Relay team -- Join a Marine Raider battalion near you! ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 12:49:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Computer game variants In message Tue, 09 Aug 1994 10:41:47 -0500 (EST), SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU writes: > Brent sez: > >>I realised just the other day that computer games should kill a >> significant amount of articles because it is virtually impossible to >> make variants for them. Goodbye player-made optional rules! > > That may not be true. With the newer software paradigms arrinving, open > architecture will become the norm, not the exception. With the ability > to look at different parts of a software package as individual objects, > modification without compromising program stability will become easy. Too bad it will take AH until I'm dead to figure out the state of the art. *-=Carl=-* ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: Computer game variants Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 10:24:58 PDT David Hauth writes: > Here's another take on the move to computer simulations: > > Right now, as a starving grad student, I can barely scrape together the > $500-plus needed to purchase ASL. Now, _any_ game produced recently for > a computer requires an LC2500 or better (for Macintrash) or a 486 w/ SVGA > and >33 MHz speed -- bottom line is that the price of my wargame just > quintupled (or worse...). Sorry to drift from the topic, but I hate to let such a common misconception proliferate. Not really... the computer wargames I've seen don't have tremendous processor requirements. I run Operation Crusader on my slower-than-a-1988-Mac-II LC (yes, the original LC) with no problems (other than some annoyance, primarily on night turns, when the computer doesn't finish figuring out its moves before I do and I have to wait for that). All most require for the moment is a 68020 and in some cases a 13" screen. On the other hand, I imagine I'll be upgrading before I try to play something that will be mondo processor intensive like Harpoon II.... At any rate, if you want to run Operation Crusader and its like, you could get by with a used LC system for probably under $1000. Sure, it's still expensive, compared to board wargames, but you've got so much more than a wargame once you've bought a computer. You can use it to write your thesis. B^) Unfortunately, with the rate at which computers are currently invading the home it's simply the case that some of us are going to be left in the dust. I've been feeling it for quite some time with my dinky 12" screen (DO NOT buy a 12" under any circumstances)... them's the breaks of the computer world. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: Computer game variants Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 10:27:05 PDT Carl Fago writes: > In message Tue, 09 Aug 1994 10:41:47 -0500 (EST), > SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU writes: > > > That may not be true. With the newer software paradigms arrinving, open > > architecture will become the norm, not the exception. With the ability > > to look at different parts of a software package as individual objects, > > modification without compromising program stability will become easy. > > Too bad it will take AH until I'm dead to figure out the state of the art. Yes, but at least they've had the sense to hook up with Atomic Games. Atomic does seem to understand the state of the art (though the state of the art is still sadly lacking in the AI department). -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 10:49:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Re: Resid FP question Tom: [Warning! Response made sans ASLRB.] First off, the 247 is in W2, right? As to the RFP attacks, I think that neither the smoke attempt nor the entry of the W1 woods activates further RFP attacks because the unit is not becoming "more vulnerable". (And why the heck didn't it enter the W1 woods in the first place?!) Share & Enjoy! Brent "wanting to take an electric pen and rewrite some of the HARPOON program" Pollock On Tue, 9 Aug 1994, Tom Repetti wrote: > > ------ Situation: cx838 enters woods hex W1 using bypass along > B C / \ the AB hexside. A 247 in woods hex W1 first fires > ######/ W2 \ with a 4(+1) shot since hexspine BC is a wall. The > / \ / shot misses, and 2 Resid is placed in W1. The cx838 has > A/ W1 \______/ 4 MF remaining, and wants to both enter W1 and make a > \ / smoke attempt in W2. Question is, what are the Resid > \______/ FP attack DRM's depending on which action the cx838 > does first? If he goes for smoke first, does he get > the wall TEM, or would he get hit by FFMO? - Tom > ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 14:03:18 -0400 (EDT) From: HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com Subject: AvalonCon I had a good time at AvalonCon this year. Backblast showed up & looks good. BTW, Pleva says they rushed this one somewhat to make AvalonCon and the next issue should be even better. Shooting for the February timeframe for release apparently. Fort had the final 6 ASLUG scenarios available (a printer problem meant the final issue wasn't there, but I was glad to finally get something for my $ particulary since I was able to grab the back issues & scenarios that I hadn't gotten). The Marriott was a better host this than last IMO, too. They did a much better job with food this year than last with regional food sites so Da Hut wasn't constantly swamped with hungry gamers. My first surprise of the tourney was my AREA rating - I've only played 8 AREA games, 7 of those at DonCon '93, and was only 5-3 with most (all?) the wins against 1500 and under players and yet I allegedly had a 1640? Go figure. Round 1 I got paired with Benoit LaRose who was from Montreal which was nice since my parents now live near Montreal (Plattsburgh, NY) so maybe next time I'm up in the North Country I may stop by for a game. I wanted to play Bridge in Round 1 and being a master of psychology figured no one would pick Italian Brothers, a Rout Report scenario - of course Benoit tricked me and picked it and Takrouna...Guess that's why I'm an engineer :-) I had the Republicans and managed to toast the 3 tankettes with my MG's which gave me a commanding CVP lead. I'd secured 2 of the buildings and we were dueling over the 3rd, but I only needed 2 to ensure the CVP tie breaker. A good scenario, that I'd play again although my impression is it's a little tough on the Nationalists. Really enjoyed meeting & playing Benoit too. Round 2 Pat Cross, Youse slayer extroidanaire, and I hooked up in Bread Factory #2. We both wanted the Germans, but he didn't want to give up balance so took the Russkies. We seriously misplayed the game actually. The Russkies setup in cellars in the 2 victory buildings which don't happen to have cellars (only 1 multi-hex buildings do). When I saw his setup, I wondered why I'd never seen anyone play it that way as it's a bitch to take out the guys in the cellars - never occurred to me that cellars didn't exist... On turn 5, my guys finally went Berzerk and had to charge the cellar, a pinned unit in the cellar ended up killing the 9-1 and 467 in CC. About then we figured out cellars didn't exist there so we moved the 447 into the adjacent trench and eliminated the MMG. A conscript half squad advanced into the victory building for him. On turn 6, I took back the building in CC since he didn't self break and rout upstairs. We managed to hold the building in the end game for the W. It was a game I would have been pissed off to lose because of the cellar faux pas, but I should have caught it earlier. Pat's an excellent player, although we were both a little rusty on RB rules obviously. Oh, and thanks for the indirect AREA points, Brian :-) Round 3 2-0 and playing that noted "novice" Steve Petersen for ladder points no less. Can you be a novice and a play tester at the Hill? I wanted to play Panzers Marsch, but Steve suckered me into playing Bone of Contention, but at least he gave me choice of sides. When in doubt take the 9-2, so I played the Germans. Steve played great and I never made to much progress. I had one renegade crew make a succesful end run to get adjacent to a Panther. The crew stayed calm as the French ran up behind him, carefully aimed, 9 to hit, no problem - what are those footsteps? 11! Aarrgghh! He died in CC. After the 11 the 9-2 fired a 12(-) attack - boxcars - random selection on the lmgs - eyes. Ouch. My 9-2 spent the last 3 turns or so encircled in the open, but Steve was polite enough to never require them to take a MC after encircling. I had a theoretical chance still, but Steve set up a wall of Partisans composed mainly of half squads and broken units - he was taking interdiction with broken guys to set them up properly in the rowhouse - to keep me from getting close. The 8-1 and 1.5 squads succesfully moves adjacent to a Panther, but the 9-2 and 2 conscript's only chance is to assault move in the street, advance into CC with a 1/2 squad, kill 'em and take the 2 hex shot. Steve fired everything, but the kitchen sink at 'em, and even hit 'em with the main on the Panther! The 9-2 wounded, the conscripts broke, but the leader recovered a 'faust, he advances in, and misses the half squad in CC...Game over. I liked the scenario and would play it again. Steve played great and deserved the win and the ladder points - 'course at the time he said nothing about giving 'em away to Brian later :-) Round 4 2-1 same as last year at this point. Played Tom Morin in Le Herrison. I drew the French in a dice off. I think we'd both played it once before, I'd won as the Germans and he as the French. My 9-1 & HMG spent nearly the whole game in Smoke as 1 Sig actually had the stuff. Fortunately his other 2 Sigs were worthless, 1 recalled, and the other broke his main and played bypass suppressor for the rest of the game. The German -2 leader ruled the battlefield from level 2 forcing the French to hide and skulk. Thanks to the Sigs lack of effectiveness we managed to preserve enough strength to have 4 buildings occupied and another 2 covered by fire and 1 in melee. The last German dash was foiled by an NMC on the 9-2 and squad that the squad gacked. I think we had it won anyway, by the somewhat sleaze move of self break to hop upstairs... Round 5 3-1 and facing Jeff Coyle in Khamsin. Jeff was somewhat less than thrilled when I pulled out the boards with the overlays already attached :-) I drew the Brits and planned to heavily defend the back hillock, by entrenching the 9-1 HMG & 2 squads on the summit & parking a Grant on top. Jeff hit hard at the Brit left (avoiding the extra wind +1). His first shot was an unlikely crit from the Marder on a Crusader that was the linchpin of my defense in the middle of the 3 hillocks - 1 on the dr - burning Crusader. Ouch. I broke 11 guns (3 of which were CMG's) but managed to repair at least 4 of them which bailed me out. To compensate for my 11's & 12's I rolled as many 2's and 3's :-) The telling sequence was his 9-2 armor leader gacking an adjacent advance fire shot on my Crusader, which then critted him and pounded another tank on the same prep fire phase. That gave me a huge edge in CVP which he slowly brought back, but when his 9-2 got stuck in a melee prior to the final turn it was over. Round 6 4-1! I'd finally changed my sequence from last year. I drew Steve Pleva, he of Critical Hit and a 2000+ AREA rating. Hmmmm...Why me? We settled on Tutsegeki, both wanted the Japanese, but I backed off and settled for the Chinese as I didn't want to give up balance. Things started off well as Steve ran into my HIP guys on turn 1 which snagged a 1 KIA on a juicy stack with a 16(-) shot. But the tide quickly turned as the IJA masterfully used Banzai charges to great effect decimating my right flank and ending in the same hex as 2 guns by turn 3. Luckily the IJA had trouble finding the guns in the Jungle and only destroyed 1 gun and a dare death squad took out a 9-1 and 2x458's in HtoH CC on a 1-4 eyes roll. The other dare deathers battle hardened creating a hero, and things were looking up. Some valiant Chinese jumped in to save the middle gun which the IJA hadn't eliminated, secured a melee and then received reinforcements which turned the tide. Steve rolled very poorly in the HtoH CC of which there were tons in the mid game, the most critical of which was boxcarring on a CC against a squad with MMG which withdrew. Near the end the Chinese still had 2 gun hexes, 1 with a hero, MMG & Squad concealed in a foxhole, with the ART, a half squad and 7-0 all defending. The ART piece rolled up back to back crits on an adjacent squad which was to much for even the Japanese. Down to 2x238's the IJA conceded after 1 was ambushed and eliminated. Maybe he was distracted more by all the Critical Hit buyers than I was :-) Round 7 5-1. Who'd a thunk it? I was supposed to play Deresinski, but he was nowhere to be found, so I ended up drawing a 5-1 Mike McGrath. I had the Germans in Rocket's with the balance. I made a couple of mistakes, in particular my setup of the Wirblewind. McGrath came on heavy on the German left setting up a firebase in the level 2 building and pushing hard for the rear building. It was a walk for the Americans as they won sans casualties forcing a concession on turn 4. The German 8 morale was meaningless as I couldn't roll anything nearly that low - and Mike's Paras were totally unphased by any German fire. I had a desperate rush of troops back in a vain attempt to save the back building which included ESB'ing the Stug to enter the building, but I assumed I'd bog and stop - of course the one time I want to roll high, I didn't and stayed in motion...It didn't matter though. I think I've played Rocket's more than any other scenario, but I still learned a lot playing against McGrath in it. It's scary to think that even after 5 or 6 playings I was missing so many potent options! Overall 5-2, with losses only to the Novice champ and McGrath. I was very pleased to say the least. Had a great time playing some good scenarios and meeting all the people. If only I hadn't lost my only ladder game :-) Hope to see everyone at Oktoberfest... Bret Hildebran hildebranb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com ----- Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 12:08:31 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Resid FP question Brent writes: > First off, the 247 is in W2, right? Whoops, yes, sorry bout that. > As to the RFP attacks, I think that > neither the smoke attempt nor the entry of the W1 woods activates further > RFP attacks because the unit is not becoming "more vulnerable". That "more vulnerable" thing (A8.22) gives RFP more than one attack if the unit moving in the hex becomes more vulnerable. But I'm talking about what the DRM's would be for that first attack once the RFP gets laid. > (And why the heck didn't it enter the W1 woods in the first place?!) To get an extra +1 DRM against the 247's First Fire shot; entering the woods would have been a 4(+0) instead of a 4(+1) by using bypass. Some would say that God lies in those extra +1 DRM's, yes indeedy. Tom ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 15:21:29 AST Subject: SOB's errata Dear customer and friend, we at TACGC (The Alain Chabot game Company) are thankful for your many suggestions and, as a sign of good faith on our part, have decided to send you this errata at no charge. XXX.1 Add: SOB's come in units of five. They are consumed at the rate one unit per player turn per drinking personel US#. A personel can only consume 5 units of SOB after which it is considered passed out for the duration of the scenario. If there is more drinking potential in a location than SOB units left to quench, the SOB is considered exhausted after that player turn. A unit that would still be sober at the start of a turn in which there is not enough SOB to go around, will attack all the other units in the location in the CC phase. Add an new rule at the end of all rules: Searching and Clearing. Searching and clearing are available to locate and/or clear SOB's. A unit that finds a SOB during searching must roll a die. On a roll <2, it goeas about its business. On any other roll, it will enter the SOB location as soon as possible and proceed to get sloshed. The only DRM to the Search roll is the NDR (see below) CLearing can also be attempted from within the LOC location. Clearing can only be done by the first MMM to enter the location provided it knew ahead of time of the SB presence or by a MMC entering the location once all other personel in the location are passed out. The only DRM to the clearing attempt is the NDR. A unit that fails its clearing attempt starts drinking the SOB. Add new rule XXX.?? National Drunkedness Rating. The National Drunkedness Rating (herafter NDR) is applied to every die roll called for in these SOB rules. It is a measure of the national affinity for booze in general. Nationality NDR Canadian +2 ANZAC +2 Russian +2 (note, anyone feeling offended because their national "spirit" has been ommited can apply to TACGC for a NDR re-evaluation. At the receipt of each request, a trusted member of our staff will roll one die and on a roll >10, will assign a +2 NDR to the offended nationality. A +1 DRM will be applied to the re-evaluation roll for each case of booze sent along with the request. [Americans please send imported beer, not that watery stuff]) Q: Do enebriated personel control their location for VC? A : only if they're not passed out All required die rolls in these Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 15:05:58 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Oops Gang, In yesterday's CH post I implied that Backblast was doing a Hill 112 HASL module. This is not correct, I must have switched Backblast for Critical Hit. Still tired, I guess... 8) Brian ----- Subject: CH: ERRATUM From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 15:06:00 -0640 Howdy, In Steutzpunkt Vierville (CH4), overlay Be5 should probably be placed 505-506 on D7-D6, not D6-D7 as written. This is not an official erratum, but I challenge you to play it the other way :-) So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: khamsin tips From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:39:00 -0640 Howdy, mbs@zycor.lgc.com writes: > Okay, usually after playing a scenario once I have some > ideas on tactics, even if I blew it the first time. But I > have played Khamsin as the British twice, gotten waxed both > times, and still have no idea how to play them. I played at DonCon a rather embarrassing game (I started out by not reading the scenario card correctly: I put my tanks out on board, and was rather surprised to find that I was supposed to bring them in as reinforcements). Still, I won as the British, so I must have something useful to say :-) You might also read Mark Nixon's analysis in V25 N6 of the General. > It seemed that with all that dust swirling around, I just > couldn't hit a damned thing. Moreover, if my tanks were > more than a couple of hexes apart, they couldn't support > each other very well due to the dust. The Germans have the same problem. There is also a "firing into heavy wind" penalty which applies more often to them, at least initially. The heavy dust also slows down the German tanks. > Couple that with the B11s (which I inevitably roll), and > the German armor seems pretty hard to kill. I broke both 37's on the Grants, one twice, one of the 75's, the 37 on the Stuart, and the 2 pounder. Expect to break guns. The British have high ROFs, and the German armor, if it can be hit, can be defeated. The Pz IV has limited AP; the Marder has limited HE. This is not a situation with Panthers vs. 75 Shermans: the tanks are much more evenly matched. > I have tried pretty much giving away one hillock, and only > heavily defending the last one, but that doesn't seem to > work (or didn't for me anyway). The infantry is another > problem. How can you set them up so they can accomplish > worthwhile things? If they spread out at all, it seems > that they can just get swarmed one at a time. The dust > really helps the German attack. The record seems to > indicate that it's balanced, so what gives? I think the key is in the VCs. The Germans can take the three hillock summits without any trouble. Their problem is taking the summits without losing too many losses. First, use the hillocks for hull-down positions for the tanks. Nixon even recommends using the Grants HD (which means that their 75's can't be used ahead; turn them to the side in case you are flanked). I defended the whole area, but Nixon recommends a defense around one Hillock. A knowledgable German will probably attack on the south end to avoid the +1 Heavy Wind DRM [F11.761], so defending H4 on board 28 forces him to make the longest march. If you are presented with the opportunity, kill the HTs. They are 4 pts apiece. Your MGs or ATRs can kill them. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 15:22:43 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Backblast and Critical Hit Guys, After several posts by different people about Backblast and Critical Hit, I offer te following... Backblast is the magazine currently under works by Perry Cocke, Chuck Goetz, Steve Petersen, JD Frazer, and myself. We are anticipating an early October release, most likely ASLOK. I'd like to emphasize that we will not release anything if the scenarios/articles are not ready, so show up at ASLOK with some bucks, but expect the worst OK? 8) We're always looking for submissions (send to me via email or ask for my snailmail address). We're currently evaluating the cost of the magazine (depends on printing costs), but I'll post when we've nailed it down. If you've a group of dedicated gamers and wish to playtest for Bb, contact Steve Petersen at S.Petersen3@genie.geis.com. He's our playtest and scenario coordinator. I'm the Editor in Chief, JD is the Layout/Artwork man , and Perry/Chuck are article editors. Critical Hit is the just released magazine of similar size/scope to what we project Backblast to be. 8) It is run by Ray Tapio, Steve Pleva, and Rob Wolkey. It is the merge of Trailbreak and FFE, one famous and one regional fanzine. Cost is $8 per issue, you get 8 scenarios and some articles which have been extensively reviewed over the past day or two. For further info, contact Critical Hit!, 88 Lodar Lane, Brewster, NY 10509. I hope this clears up some of the confusion. Brian ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 13:42:03 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) Complaints about computer games -- my favorite soap box! In the General Vol 29 #2, in the Infiltrator's Report, AH tells about joining with Simtex Software to convert old games to the IBM. Great. I thought I was one of the fortunate ones, owning a Mac, and as usual AH has decided that simply because I'm not the majority, I'm not gonna be a future customer. I do appreciate Atomic Games for developing on both the Mac and IBM. I know that someday there will be no need to worry which platform you own and run. But today, and the next year or so, I am left in the dust. AH offers three computer game titles that I am interested in right now -- Diplomacy, Computer Third Reich, and Kingmaker. None of these are done for the Mac. And already the General is devoting more and more space to reviewing such gems. All I need to do now is invest a couple of thousand dollars to try to keep up with the state of the art, at least until new upgrades and new color monitors and new operating systems make me spend more to stay current. How many of us buy AH games made more than five years ago? Lots? How many of us buy computer games from five years ago? Anyone? Hmm. Tom Huntington ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 10:06:17 EDT From: lee@peri.com (Gary Lee) Subject: Re: Back From DonCon Hi, I'm the lurker that Carl Fago mentioned in his wrapup of Avaloncon yesterday. Avaloncon was my first tournament that I've ever gone to, and it turned out to be a blast! Lots of fun, competition, and meeting new people. It definitly was worthwhile to go. The facilities were nice and Russ Gifford put in a good GM performance. Round 1: Played Eric Givler in Bridge to Nowhere. I was the Russians and in the game halfway through when I foolishly exposed my tank up front to apply more pressure on the oncoming Italians. It promptly went out in a hail of machine gun bullets and the rest of the Russians took that as a cue to break and run. A good game. 0-1. Round 2: Seth Semanza was the Russians in the Bread Factory. My German attack was stalled for the first three turns as his heavy and mediums pounded any German to show his head. Then the bezerker ran into the street with a Demo with a squad. The squad was squashed, but the leader was only wounded. All the firing at the bezerkers left an opening for me to take the big building behind the Bread Factories that contained a heavy, medium, and AT gun. In CC I wiped out the Russians and took over the victory buildings with help from the new machine guns. 1-1. Round 3: Strangers in a Strange Land with Bruno Lacheveque as the French. My Germans really did not slow the French attack to the building. The game turned when his kill stack of 9-2 leader and two squads hauling the 2 MMG's moved next to my two squads, 8-0 leader and a Demo. I threw the demo which broke his stack but left me with only a pin. Bruno was an good experienced player. 2-1. Round 4: Paole Zion with Carl Fago as the Axis. Carl is right about this one. As the partisans, I could have set up way back and ambushed the column of trucks as they came past. But I did`nt think of that as I set up somewhat forward-middle. Carl pushed me back forced me to take casualties. However, my partisans must have been practicing destroying trucks as they took out many trucks on Carl's last mad drive for the exit. Carl was one of the most classiest guys I've ever played against (although, I have not played against that many people!). He played well, but the MOL's (which also burned me once) and street fighting were too much to overcome. 3-1. Round 5: Phil Petry as the Germans in Counterattack on the Vistula. At this point in the tourny, I was really happy to have won three times so far. In fact, all I wanted was to have three wins for the tournament since this was my first time and I really have not played that much. Phil came charging on but his tigers could'nt hit the barn door if it was 2 feet away. He risked his half tracks in the attack and lost two of them to CC. Then, he ran one of his tigers to near the bridges to challange the oncoming Russian tank. Unfortunatly for him, he parked it next to my AT gun which promptly sent a shot in the side for a blazing wreck. 4-1. Round 6: Vic Provost as the Japanese in Totsugeki!. The Japanese came on hard but took some casualties as the Chinese fire lanes proved effective in the kunai. He split the Chinese force into two forces, one with 6 squads and one with 3 squads, each force holding on gun. He went after the smaller force but he ran out of time and men in trying for that last gun. Vic was a good and fun player to game against. 5-1. Round 7: Bob Bendis was the Amis in Death at Carentan. At this point, Sunday, I was pretty mentally tired. Playing ASL for three days is exhausting. We did not start until after 10:30 am since I had to wake him up and he had to eat breakfast. I foolishly chose B track, not taking into account the time needed to play those not so short scenarios. In retrospect, I should have played a short one on the A track, but my mind was clouded (which is in reality, most of the time). The Germans were slowly enveloping the Americans, making slow progress and taking casualties. Bob had set up in a good position and was ready to unleash his OBA when I conceeded because it was 3pm and I had a long drive back to Long Island. Bob is a terrific player and he thought the Americans would win. I though the Americans had the advantage, but the game was still in contest, so anything could have happened. I guess, Bob deserved the win. 5-2. I was surprised by my finish since I had not been to a tournament before and I had rarely played ASL in the past year and a half. Overall, an excellent experience that is highly recommended. Gary ----- Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 15:09:25 EST From: "Cocke, Perry" Subject: Resid FP & Bypass Brent replies to Tom: >First off, the 247 is in W2, right? As to the RFP attacks, I think >that neither the smoke attempt nor the entry of the W1 woods >activates further RFP attacks because the unit is not becoming "more >vulnerable". (And why the heck didn't it enter the W1 woods in the >first place?!) >Brent First off, if the 247 is in W2 and the 838 is Bypassing at the B-C-Wall vertex, then there would be no residual since the hexside TEM of the Wall would reduce the 2FP residual by two columns to zero. Second, if there were residual, the 838 would get hit by when it entered the woods >and< when it tried to make smoke. "Becoming more vulnerable" applies only to OBA, not to residual--which only requires expenditure of MF/MP (as opposed to Mines, which require entry/exit). Third, the 838 would not suffer FFMO regardless of whether it tries to make smoke before or after it enters the woods. A little known and/or often forgotten feature of Residual FP is that even Bypassing units get the full TEM [?EXC: Deluxe?]. This is because one cannot tell from where the fire came from based on the placement of the residual FP counter, so that one could be Bypassing a hexside the original firer had no LOS to. Also sans ASLRB, but with 99% percent confidence. Perry "Finally back on-line at work after several weeks" Cocke ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 19:13:31 EDT Subject: Avaloncon AAR Another Avaloncon AAR. After collecting all the names of people attending, I failed to hook-up with anyone Wednesday evening. I managed to find a friend from North Carolina and discussed Breakout: Normandy most of the evening. Went swimming and relaxed in the whirlpool until 11pm. Figured I wouldn't have the time the rest of the week. The hotel is great and all the faciliites are open late. My wife and I stayed Sunday and Monday nights afterwards to visit the Inner Harbor on Monday. After the grueling tournament I needed the rest. Round 1 saw me facing Robert Feinstein of the San Diego club in Bridge to Nowhere. My Italians continued to perform terribly as the 8-1 and 3 elite squads using the ford never passed a morale check. I broke a mortar, both MMG's and 4 of 5 LMG's in 5 turns. Robert went for the kill after both squads with ATRs broke and overran my 9-1 and two squads at the end of the bridge. Boxcars ended the threat and after next turns CC left a wreck on the bridge for cover. It made it a close game, but he still managed to get 19 FP on the last victory hex. My sniper [SAN 3] managed to get lots of opportunities and took out the commisar and 7-0? leader. I'd exchange the sniper shots for less 3's anyday. -> 0-1, thought I could have done a better job, made too many minor mistakes. Round 2 saw me playing Stewart King in my only ladder match. After being mauled by Dave Ripton I still chose the Germans in To The Rescue. After Stewart's first turn CH with the mortar broke my fire support stack of 9-1, 3 squads, mmg, lmg I thought it was going to be another rout for the Russians. My luck changed and by turn 5 my rescued units were homefree. I self rallied a half-squad of the survivors and created an 8-1 leader. Does any one know if the leader would count as VPs? It didn't matter in our game, but I would say they would. -> 1-1, fresh from playing this four days earlier and dice to boot, sorry Stewart, but I needed this one. My first ASL victory in my last 6 games. Round 3 matched my against Tate Rogers in Bone Of Contention. My partisans turned in their weapons and went home. I broke every weapon I had including both MA and CMG of the Panthers. The 7-0 and a squad tried 9 times to rally without DM to no avail. After they finally came back the game was over. My only satisfaction was seeing the 9-2 fry in his own backblast as he watched the last Panther torch. -> 1-2, I was beginning to get demoralized watching all those -2 shots have no effect. Round 4 was Strangers in A Strange Land against Bryan Kroft. I had the Germans with the balance as both of us wanted the French. My set-up was a little weak, but my luck returned and I managed to pull out a nailbiter. Another CH with the mortar took out my 8-1 and a squad, A French hero picked up the bloody DC and took out another German squad. I managed to confuse Bryan with all of the level counters in the building leaving him only an 8(+2) shot during the last DFPh to break my sole unbroken squad and 9-1 leader. I also won 4 of 4 CCs in the last two turns. -> 2-2, I was feeling good about this victory and confident about the next scenarios. Round 5 pitted my against Brook Schurman in Hill 253.5. I had the Germans and was ready to defeat the reverse slope defense. Unfortunately the ASL gods had other plans. The Elephant and one Panther were imobilized by a hidden 45L. Next the Russian 8-1 w/RAD went Berserk and ran down the hill thinking the 80mm OBA wasn't causing me enough pain. My 10-2 and engineers stopped all thought processes at that point. He retaliated by popping a HIP unit and CCing my 8-0 and RAD. Touche, both OBA gone. Next was the air support. The stukas caught the 8-1 and 2 squads running down the road, the 36FP attack managed to break the 8-1 and one squad. We're talking 36 even here! I was getting extremely agitated. Then his FB's showed up and rolled 5, 4, 2 in CC versus my stukas. During my turn I was all set to advance 9 squads, 10-2, 9-2, 9-1 leaders and FT onto the hill. His FB's had other plans. Total disruption! My panther started the turn with boxcars, then the FB's took over and left 3 squads and the 10-2 unbroken. Of course he could only attack three of the four hexes I had units in or they would have gone too. The hapless 10-2 continued his job and advanced to the top of the hill only to see a 4+1 shot break him and his entire platoon. -> 2-3, enough said, I was dazed and incoherent. A couple of hours later Brook asked my wife if I was ok. Round 6 was Totsugeki and Peter Schmilt. Unfortunately I was still replaying the last scenario and my Japanese failed there first six MCs to further my dispair. I finally managed to do some damage when my 10-0 went berserk and led three squads to take out one of the guns. With that I perked up a little and actually had a slim chance of victory. The DC-hero couldn't make it past the withering fire from the Chinese 10-2 (battle hardened twice) protecting the last gun. My first time playing as the Japanese. Interesting, but I think I prefer the marines. -> 2-4 and seeing ghosts of Dave Ripton everywhere. And yes, I broke a mortar, mmg and lmg in this scenario. Round 7 was Among the Ruins against Kent Smoak of the WCWG. He claims to have been playing for only one month. It didn't show in his play. My play was lackluster, but the dice were almost completely on my side. My 8-1 and and squad w/lmg held off two platoons of Americans with the 9-1 and 8-0 using two FPFs. Bodies strewn everywhere. Nobody could make it through the carnage. Even with that I managed to box a squad out of existance in two consecutive rally phases. -> 3-4, disappointing as I went 4-3 in both of my previous Avaloncons. Final DR tally. I rolled 4 eyes and 21 boxes in 7 games. OUCH! I managed to meet Carl Fago, and Brian Youse, but had no chances to play them due to my subpar performance. Time to get a training program in place and beef up for the next tournament. Alan Bills ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 21:19:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: DonCon In message Tue, 9 Aug 94 08:36:45 -0400, Chuck Powers writes: > Actually, it was because I was able to make both Brian and Carl whine. :) Oh, come on. How much did I whine? Ok, I whined a little when it seemed that every time I got a decent panzerfaust shot at one of your tanks, I had to take the backblast and did more damage to my guys than yours. But I didn't whine when your artillery came down and nearly shut down the left flank. Nor did I whine when my JgdPz IV/70 sixed its MA. At least I didn't stoop to Brian's level of increasing the whine level when he is _winning_! :-) > Once again Carl showed me how to use the enemy's AFVs as cover. Ahh, but you are such a good student. :-) > I don't know what it is with Carl and I, but every time > we play it looked like someone took their hand and scrambled all the > playing pieces. I think we keep doing some maximum entropy experiment or some such. We also seem to maximize death and destruction. Was there anything left of your initial on board units? Was there anything left of my Assault Engineer units? Damned little on both counts I think. But always a great game and down to the last few dice rolls. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 21:28:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Back From DonCon In message Tue, 9 Aug 94 10:06:17 EDT, lee@peri.com (Gary Lee) writes: > Hi, I'm the lurker that Carl Fago mentioned in his wrapup of Avaloncon > yesterday. Good to see you come out of lurker status, Gary. Just don't try to teach us how to throw MOL. :-) > Round 4: Paole Zion with Carl Fago as the Axis. Carl is right about this > one. As the partisans, I could have set up way back and ambushed the > column of trucks as they came past. But I did`nt think of that as I set > up somewhat forward-middle. But that is also the setup that makes for a fun game rather than one where the Germans do convoy movement for 5 turns. > Carl pushed me back forced me to take > casualties. However, my partisans must have been practicing destroying > trucks as they took out many trucks on Carl's last mad drive for the > exit. And Gary kept up the pressure by making sure all exits were covered by someone. Usually with an option for Street Fighting, which equals almost certain truck death. > Carl was one of the most classiest guys I've ever played against > (although, I have not played against that many people!). He played well, > but the MOL's (which also burned me once) and street fighting were too > much to overcome. 3-1. Talk about a left handed compliment! On Gary's behalf, he's a fun guy to play. At least he didn't apologize every time he smoked a truck. And he's not picky about what he likes on his pizza. :-) Time to get a home computer and get on the Internet ladder, Gary. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Subject: SCENARIO CARD DESIGN From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 06:28:00 -0640 Howdy, I have a suggestion for scenario designers. In the "traditional" scenario card, the turn record is in the middle of the card. Whenever I play table space is typically hard to find, so it's hard to leave enough space free for the entire scenario card. If the turn record were on the bottom of the card, the rest of the card could be covered by something else (a box lid, a tray of counters, etc.). It would be even better if the turn record were on the bottom with the ELR and SAN, with the VCs and the SSRs above it so they too could be left uncovered, at the same time using the space for the OBs and the scenario description and aftermath. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 12:46:34 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: ASLRB Errata > Hi everyone, > how do I figure out what pages of the ASLRB have changed, and > what the most recent updates are? Can these changed pages be ordered > from AH separately or only with modules? > > Thanks! > -Nadir > This information is found in the file "pages.Z" from the ftp.archive. I include the changed pages as found in this file: This is a list of all ASL rules pages published so far. It notes of each page the module(s) in which it has appeared. The dates that accompany some of the page numbers in the rulebook are: 90 CoB 91 GH 92 CdG A: 7-8 ASL 87 13-14 ASL 87 15-16 ASL 87 17-18 ASL CdG 27-28 ASL 87 29-30 ASL 87 CdG B: 7-8 ASL 87 19-20 ASL 87 25-26 ASL 87 29-30 ASL GH 31-32 ASL CdG C: 1-2 ASL 89 3-4 ASL 89 5-6 ASL 89 7-8 ASL 89 11-12 ASL 89 D: 1-2 ASL GH 9-10 ASL 89 13-14 ASL 89 17-18 ASL 89 E: 25-26 Yanks CoB F: 1-2 WoA CdG I don't know if these pages can be ordered from AH separately. I have what I think is the newest catalogue from AH and I may look there when I get home, but I guess the best thing is to call AH and ask. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:13:06 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: DC question Hello! I've got a simple DC question: A unit is placing a DC in an Adjacent Location that is fortified and has Good Order enemy units. Does he have to place the DC against a hexside to breach the fortified hexside or may he place the DC as if the hex was not fortified (except of the extra TEM)? In the first case the FP of the DC is halved, and sometime it is more important to break the enemy than to create the breach. I have always thought that you cannot place a DC normally in a fortified enemy-occupied Location, but some comments in Mark Nizon's article in the last General seems to imply that you can attack the Location at full strength instead of breaching the hexside. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 13:34:46 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: AvalonCon AAR I will belatedly add my tales to the growing number of AvalonCon AARs: In round one I had the pleasure of playing Perry Cocke in Italian Brothers; I had the Fascist 'volunteers', Perry the International Brigadiers. I had better luck than Brian in this one, as Perry malfed two lmgs firing on my tankettes, and then X'd both on his first repair attempt. We had an extremely tight game, with Perry ahead on CVPs but in serious danger of losing the third building I needed, where an encircled Commisar and a squad stuck it out for several turns until finally I managed to break the squad. Unfortunately, I took them prisoner instead of shooting them on the spot, which proved unwise. With prisoners in tow, one of my HS was halved in CC versus the Commisar, so I slipped a column on the table. Naturally, I rolled a CR result (KIA one column up) and Perry's political officer survived the wound, and ultimately, the game, for the win. Perry made the most of his last player turn, self-rallying a nearby squad to further secure the building and laying down a firestorm to prevent me from getting close enough for one last dash. This was a great, though deflating, game. Round two was against Bruce (?) from Kentucky (sorry, lost my list of opponents) in Turned Away. This was my second RB experience, and a good one. As the Russian, I chose the wooden building next to the gully as my HQ, but Bruce guessed my choice early. Play was even, but the dice were his for the first half and mine for the second. I lost three squads in two turns, a powerful hurt for the small Russian OB. By turn three he had an lmg/548 next to the HQ in the rubble, and these SOBs would not break! They hung in there for two and a half turns before they finally skedaddled back into the gully. In the meantime, I suffered three wounded leaders and my elite troops were melting into consripts. Then the dice turned...in a ROF frenzy I broke three 548s and killed a leader, soon joined in Valhalla by the 9-2, courtesy of a sniper's bullet. Again, this one went to the wire, with Bruce's DC clearing the HQ of all but a wounded leader on the last turn, but all his adjacent troops pinned or broken by my Final Fire and unable to advance to take the building. This left me drained but 1-1. Round three I played Ross (again, last name unknown) in A New Kind of Foe. Ross was a very good player, and I'm afraid I didn't offer much opposition. I made the error of setting up a partisan leader and three squads in a stone building, the better to withstand the pregame bombardment...great idea, *if* the buiding doesn't collapse, which it did, blammo, 7 CVPs. My field gun also got blasted in the bombardment, so Ross had nine of the needed twenty five CVPs before the game began. From there, he did not make a mistake, surgically reducing my force and securing the balance of his points by turn five. Fortunately Ross is one of those guys that is a pleasure to play even when you're getting crushed. 1-2. For round four I played Brian (?) from Massachusetts, in Le Herrison. I was French, and placed my HIP squad equivalent as two HS on the far left side of the board, and defended the right side. My sleaze tactic worked, as these guys retook one building on my last player turn just as Brian was kicking me out of what would have been his eleventh building. I hung on to win by routing a broken unit upstairs and out of reach in the last rout phase to retain control. 2-2 Round five left me broken and disrupted; this was the marathon mentioned by Chuck. I played Dan Schlact (sp?) from California. Dan is the fellow Brian referred to, who recites the sequence of play throughout the game. We played Red Star/Red Sun, starting at nine a.m. Saturday and finishing around 1:30 a.m. on Sunday. Dan's a very good guy, just a little pokey on the moves. As the Japanese, I held Dan up in the center of the board for five turns, as the creeping barrage moved only a hex a turn due to inaccuracy. My ATG on the left side had some success, flaming one BT early. Dan responded by placing smoke on the gun with my own mortar, and closing for the kill. Meanwhile, my other ATG opened up from the other side of the map and killed three BTs from over twenty hexes away, through the dust! Dan passed his morale check, however, and pressed on. My FBs took out another BT, but Dan had 38 vps on the last board (he needed 30) at the beginning of my last player turn. Through a combination of TH heroes and banzai charges I broke or tied up eight points, but couldn't nail the last one I needed. I can't be bitter about this one, because I had some great dice that kept me in it, and despite excessive time, I had a lot of fun. The highlights were running a TH hero through an already Final-Fired stack (allowed, if in the shortest path to an AFV) forcing an FPF which broke the stack, and having Chuck ask 'How much longer?' at 7 p.m., 8 p.m., 9 p.m.,... 2-3 Round Five started at two-thirty a.m. or so Sunday, with Chuck Powers in Totsugeki. Saint Chuck actually hung around to play the match we had tentatively agreed to over the net. This was a fun, dazed blood bath. As the Japanese I grabbed one gun early, and appeared to have the advantage, but I pushed my luck in CC and Chuck started greasing IJA squads left and right. On the last turn Chuck judiciously placed his meagre remaining resources and held on for the win. This one had just the right amount of silliness for the hour of day (or night). We ended with one and a half IJA squads, one KMT squad, one crew, and a KMT 9-1. We had fun, and it was good to put another face with a name 2-4 At this point I was too zonked to consider playing ASL Sunday, so I wrapped up the 'con playing We The People and heading home. Again, Russ ran a good event. I agree with Brian that there seemed to be some timing wierdness going on with lots of down time. Though I experienced 'too much of a good thing', Chuck and others had time to play Britannia between rounds! This is great if you can plan on it, a drag if you're looking for high-intensity unadulterated ASL action. I'm looking forward to next year, and getting over .500 for a change. Take it easy, JR ----- From: GORD.REID@olimitsbbs.com (GORD REID) Subject: Concealment loss Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 08:23:00 GMT Can a concealed unit advance from concealment terrain to behind a wall in the APh and still retain his concealment counter even within an enemies LOS? gord ======================================================================== The Outer Limits BBS - 313-692-9065 - USA Today - BoardWatch Mag. 250,000 Files - 15.6 Gigs - Internet - 15 Lines 28.8 - Adult - Fido ======================================================================== ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 9:36:40 -0400 (EDT) From: HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com Subject: RE: Concealment loss GORD.REID@olimitsbbs.com (GORD REID) writes: >Can a concealed unit advance from concealment terrain to behind a wall >in the APh and still retain his concealment counter even within an >enemies LOS? Assuming the LOS is through the wall & the wall TEM would apply then YES he can stay concealed. If the enemy unit could declare Wall Advantage or had a height advantage to nullify the wall TEM then the unit would be considered in the open and lose ?. All you need's a hindrance or positive TEM to stay concealed within enemy LOS in the advance phase. Bret Hildebran hildebranb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 10:22:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Computer game variants Item Subject: Message text > > Too bad it will take AH until I'm dead to figure out the state of the art. > > Yes, but at least they've had the sense to hook up with Atomic Games. Atomic > does seem to understand the state of the art (though the state of the art is > still sadly lacking in the AI department). i have to disagree here. Atomic is state of the art. It the art that is sadly lacking, at least for machines the scale of a home computer. -dlw ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 07:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Re: DC question 'Elo Ole: The feeling you got from Mark nixon's article was, as far as I know, correct: a DC can be placed normally against a Fortified location, forfeiting the Breach attempt. Also, it can be placed even if the location contains >=one squad equivalent of Good Order enemy Infantry. Share & Enjoy! Brent Pollock ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 11:17:45 -0400 (EDT) From: HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com Subject: RE: khamsin tips Matt Shostak (mbs@zycor.lgc.com) writes: > Okay, usually after playing a scenario once I have some ideas on tactics, >even if I blew it the first time. But I have played Khamsin as the British >twice, gotten waxed both times, and still have no idea how to play them. I've played Khamsin twice recently as the Brits and miraculously escaped with victories both times. Mark Nixon's article on the subject helped greatly in my formulating a strategy. Both times I've tried to defend the far right hillock summit since the German attack will either have to go farthest or into the +1 wind to get there. Here's my general setup and strategy. It's worked for me against 2 pretty good opponents, but my dice have cooperated as well :-) The Hillock on the left flank is a lost cause so I only put 2 half squads with the mortars up there - mission to slow down the Germans and fire as many mortar shells at Halftracks & the Marder as possible hoping to get lucky. I usually put the 8-1 with a 458/LMG on the right forward hillock summit. I put 2 sangars adjacent to back hillock summit and another 2 hexes, away so I've got a 458/LMG to the right of the summit and I advance the 9-1 458/HMG and another squad onto the summit and let them entrench - The foxhole's invaluable for OVR survivability and way back there they have time to entrench since they won't have any targets until turn 3 at the earliest and realistically not until 4 or 5. The AT gun goes in the brush on this hillock facing forward to the left where the Germans are expected to come from. I put an ATR in the brush right between the boards, and the other ATR in the farthest forward brush on the right flank just in case someone comes that way...If no one does he can reveal and make a flanking run if appropriate or fall back into the defense. I like the Grant with the Armor leader parked on top of the entrenching 9-1 & HMG as further insurance against OVR. I'll take the other Grant and park it on the right flank just behind the forward hillock along the hex spine. If the Germans go to the right of the spine, the 75's in the game, but if they don't your Hull Down & only a Crit or the Marder can ruin your day. It also means if the Germans move up on either hillock to take away HD the 75 enters. I send one Crusader to set up just back of the far left hillock in a HD position. He'll slow down the German approach and protect that flank, he'll probably end up dead, but with ROF of 2 he should take some of them with him. The other Crusader goes in between the 3 hillocks HD behind the right forward one. He can pour fire onto anyone who comes on top of the hillocks and has support from the ATR HIP in the brush. I'm not sure what's best with the Stuart. The first time I was mistakenly thinking I could go HD on a hillock summit (you can't) and put him on top of the 8-1 on the forward right summit, Bas promptly pointed out he couldn't go HD and flamed him shortly thereafter. After that I decided to let him threaten the German flank and go galavanting about in their rear. He toasted a Half Track filled with a squad/LMG and pulled some Germans over to combat him - if he hadn't snapped his main who knows - he even took a couple of MG shots on the soft rear of the Marder, but to no avail...I'd probably try that again - it was fun, but the Stuart may work out better in the middle of the 3 hillocks - just seems a shame to waste all that mobility in a static defense. The above defense has worked out well for me... I also like to: * Start shooting at the nearest tanks in LOS - gain that acquisition now even if it's 10 hexes away and moving (+7 + light dust) you never know when you'll roll eyes. * Try to kill the Marder - he's the only guy the Grants really fear so if you get any shots on him take 'em. * Use the hillocks to stay HD - you can also be HD behind the summits. * Stay CE, unless you decide to OVR somebody - the sniper's unlikely to hurt you and with all the other mods you don't need another +1 for BU. * Try to nail as many tanks as possible quickly to get the CVP edge which is the key. * I tried to only intensive fire when I was pretty sure I wouldn't live to see another shot - a gun that breaks is a real killer if it doesn't come back for the Brits. Bottom line is Khamsin's a wild one where guns will break, unlikely crits will toast key positions and infantry can charge tanks 4 hexes over OG and come away unscathed...It's one of my favorites... Now if someone can only explain to me how to play the Japanese in Kokoda Trail...Brian's willingness to play 'em for money makes me think I was doing something incredibly wrong... Hope this has helped some... Bret Hildebran hildebranb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 14:49:00 -0400 From: "mark (m.a.) turnbull" Subject: Re: Marines and ML8 In message "Re: Marines and ML8", 'Rudel@aol.com' writes: >Anybody ever notice that the U.S. Army's "basic" morale level of 6 was >arrived at in the late seventies, post-Viet Nam, the commies-are-on-the-rise >era, whereas the Marines' mind-boggling 8 morale and industrial-strength >firepower was conceived in the era of post-Reagan military giddiness? I just finished reading Max Hastings "Overlord" (for the 2nd time). I think he would agree with the 6 morale, but would probably assign an 8 to the paratroopers. His complaint was that America, more so than all other major nations involved, skimmed off too much of the "cream" of American manpower to go to "elite" organizations, such as the air force, tank corps, paratroops, rangers, etc. and the infantry got what was left. (Although the Germans also did this to a considerable extent). Mark PS. Sorry if this insults anyone. ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:25:10 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Band Of Brothers Guys, Just read an interesting book called Band of Brothers. I was looking for scenario ideas, and only found one which will require further research, but it is a pretty cool book none the less. It is about company E (?) of some reg. in the 101st. It traces their creation in 42-43 through Normandy, Market Garden, Bulge, and the end of the war. I thought it'd be a good source of small unit, but those danged paras always seemed to be working in 10's or less not 100's or less! There was a "Silence that Gun" type of situation where the cmdr of the coy (Capt Winters, I believe) leads some 10-15 paras against sixty Germans and 4 105's in a complicated trenchworks/mg infested stronghold. They kick butt, but this isn't much of a scenario! (In ASL I'd give the US about 1/2 turn to live). I've also read Von Luck(?)s book called Panzer Commander. Don't bother. What a waste of self-indulgent crap on Luck's behalf. The book is about his career. I thought "great, a panzer recon cmdr, good stuff". Instead I got wild stories for pages on end about his exploits after this battle and that with no real detail at all. Hell, the invasion of Poland was one page, I think and France was barely 5. This should have been called "Von Luck, One Partying Dude" instead of "Panzer Commander". Brian ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 15:30:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: khamsin tips In message Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:39:00 -0640, jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) writes: > If you are presented with the opportunity, kill the HTs. > They are 4 pts apiece. Your MGs or ATRs can kill them. 5 points, actually. 1 Point for vehicle, 1 point for MA, 1 point for armor and 2 points for crew. Note that American halftracks are worth 4 points (lousy armor). +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:47:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: khamsin tips Matt reminded me... In message Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:02:04 CDT, mbs@zycor.lgc.com writes: >> From cdf1@psu.edu Wed Aug 10 14:40:34 1994 >> In message Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:39:00 -0640, >> jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) writes: >> >> > If you are presented with the opportunity, kill the HTs. >> > They are 4 pts apiece. Your MGs or ATRs can kill them. >> >> 5 points, actually. 1 Point for vehicle, 1 point for MA, 1 point for >> armor and 2 points for crew. > > Don't you use the DVP, which is the red number on the depiction of the > vehicle on the scenario card? I don't know whether it's 4 or 5, but the > point is that it could be different from the standard calculation. Exactly correct, Matt. I had forgotten about DVP. They are indeed worth 4 DVP which is what the VC are based on. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- From: johna@io.org Subject: Luck's Book Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Well I've been away for awhile and the first post i read is brian's about Von Luck's book. I enjoyed the book. His career was extraordinary but his intention in the book was not to give you a) scenarios or b) a detailed description of his battlefield exploits. I think his actual career and the fact that he survived and was a favourite of Rommels, speaks far more than any self-serving auto-biography could. I found the book poignant. An old soldiers' memories are fascinating for what they leave out as much as they put in. His apparent preoccupation with the emotional aspects of the war and his attachments to people rather than events was for me quite moving. And I just don't know if his time in a Russian POW camp or his participation in some of the later battles of the war(or any for that matter) could be construed as a party. But as my dad used to say that's what makes horseraces: differences of opinion. I think also because I have been shot at and seen war zones my sense of recollection: the sifting of fact from feeling, the peeling away of layers of memory so that you are only left with an image- is what for me was so charged about his look back at momentous events 50 years later. Carl Jung the noted psychologist in his auto biography never once mentions an actual event. He talks only about his inner life; dreams, feelings, ideas. To me that is what I am interested in, the growth of the person, and the perception of his world. No. of squads,actions...I'll read unit histories for that. ----- From: nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra) Subject: does AH sell errata pages? Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 20:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone, well, I've determined that I'm missing all of the '89 errata pages (chapters C & D). Can I order these separately from AH? I ask because I _don't_ see them in my catalog (new full-color job that came with 'Guerrilla'). Thanks for your help! -Nadir ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Re: DVP for ht Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 8:00:16 CETDST Hi, > > Matt reminded me... > > In message Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:02:04 CDT, mbs@zycor.lgc.com writes: > > >> From cdf1@psu.edu Wed Aug 10 14:40:34 1994 > > >> In message Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:39:00 -0640, > >> jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) writes: > >> > >> > If you are presented with the opportunity, kill the HTs. > >> > They are 4 pts apiece. Your MGs or ATRs can kill them. > >> > >> 5 points, actually. 1 Point for vehicle, 1 point for MA, 1 point for > >> armor and 2 points for crew. > > > > Don't you use the DVP, which is the red number on the depiction of the > > vehicle on the scenario card? I don't know whether it's 4 or 5, but the > > point is that it could be different from the standard calculation. > > Exactly correct, Matt. I had forgotten about DVP. They are indeed worth 4 > DVP which is what the VC are based on. > > +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ > | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | > | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | > | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | > +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ > But isn't the red number (i.e. the DVP) excluding the crew ? I seem to remember that's the case - of course no rule book at hand so I could be wrong. -- Klas Malmstrom ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 22:27:19 +0930 GMT From: bjm@rommel.apana.org.au (Brad McMahon) Subject: Re: OBA Flowchart Hi Grant (Grant Linneberg), on Aug 07 you wrote: > e> What a pity that noone remembers my flowchart - the one > e> I prepared three years ago and appeared in the Digest and > e> is currently on both sites under the file "aslml-2.05"... > e> > > Is that the one that is formatted like lines of BASIC (GOTO 700, etc.)? If > so, a pal of mine updated it to the revised OBA rules and I still use it. > It has also been useful for new OBAers. > > -Grant. I still use it when I use OBA (which alas, is not all that often). So, Bahadir your time was not wasted! Brad -- Brad McMahon <> bjm@rommel.apana.org.au "I will not instigate revolution" [7G06] ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 07:43:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Critical Hit! (or lack thereof) Saw a note on GEnie from Ray Tapio. Critical Hit! has sold out. I don't know any details on if that means orders already placed are fulfilled or what this means for ex-FFE subscribers that haven't ordered. Ray said that what this does mean is that a CH #2 is inevitable. *-=Carl=-* ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 21:51:12 EDT Subject: DCs and fortified buildings Ole and Brent, >The feeling you got from Mark nixon's article was, as far as I know, >correct: a DC can be placed normally against a Fortified location, >forfeiting the Breach attempt. Also, it can be placed even if the >location contains >=one squad equivalent of Good Order enemy Infantry. I have trouble with this interpretation as the unit placing the DC could _not_ enter the fortified hex while GO infantry are present (even if the placing unit were berserk!). The placing unit has to expend MF to enter the hex (i.e., has to be able to enter the location - it is unable to place or throw to a higher level building location) and while it could spend the MF to enter the hex it couldn't physically enter it due to the restrictions on forts. I guess you could say that I grudgingly agree with Nixon's interpretation, I just don't like it. Aren't forts supposed to give some protection from attacks? Cheers, Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 21:59:40 EDT Subject: Re: Band Of Brothers Brian writes: >Just read an interesting book called Band of Brothers. I was looking >for scenario ideas, and only found one which will require further research, but >it is a pretty cool book none the less. I've had pretty good luck with Paul Carell's books for scenario ideas. His books (Hitler Moves East, Foxes of the Desert, Scorched Earth, and They're Coming) are chocka block full of small unit actions and generally have unit designations, eyewitness accounts, etc. I've some other references too; I'll post em if people are interested. > I've also read Von Luck(?)s book called Panzer Commander. Don't bother. >What a waste of self-indulgent crap on Luck's behalf. I found Dalby's "We Led the Way" to be pretty much the same self-indulgent bull. Pretty much a waste of time for historical account. Decent if you want a commanders perspective on the "spirit" of things. Cheers, Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 22:05:30 EDT Subject: Re: ASL ML and Mt Cootha Jeff wrote: >> You're referring to what many Queenslanders call "The Battle of Brisbane." >> MacArthur's HQ was in the Girls Convent near Mt. Cooth-tha (pronounced >> Coot-a) in Brisbane. The US troops stationed there apparently had many a >> fist fight with the locals over women. No doubt this was fanned by the >> superb Aussie beers which put the US ones to shame. One of the reasons >> that the ANZACs were withdrawn to the Pacific theater in 1943 was the >> number of complaints raised by the soldiers that they weren't >> defending their homeland from the Japanese (read US Marines :-). Shaun Travers wrote: >Anyway, I couldn't let this go past! I'm a Queenslander and have lived >in Brisbane for the last 25 years (and I'm only 4 years older than >that!). I actually live about 1.5 miles away from Mt Coot-tha. I don't >know where you found your pronounciation for it but everybody I know >pronounciates it Cootha (as in Coo-tha). What makes it worse about the >Battle of Brisbane is that local lore assures us that a person was shot >and injured during the "big fight". Have no idea if it is true or not >but talking to the locals the anomosity was definitely there - >especially 'casue the Americans had more money to throw around and >treated women with more respect than Aussies do. Shaun, I lived there for 2.5 years and you're right. I blew the pronunciation. Right after I sent it I realized my mistake. I lived about 1 mi from Mt. Cootha in Bardon then Toowong. Have you played with any of the local KIA Club? Paul Nunpatrick, Colin Jones, Robert Gillivray(?), (Colin Sheppard before he quit?)? I know that Colin Jones is lurking somewhere on this list. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 21:24:28 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: OBA Flowchart" To all who requested the updated flowchart, as soon as I find the ASCII copy, I will post it. If I have to re-type it in, so be it. -Grant. ... Can I yell "movie" in a crowded firehouse? -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 10:45:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: carl & lysator Would it be OK to upload Ghostscript and Ghostview to one or both of the ftp sites? I have 'em and would be happy to do so if it will save others the hassle of trying to find them out there in the ever more crowds reaches of the net. Let me know..... ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 09:49:30 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: Stripes quote Okay, I just heard on the radio a quote from the movie Stripes, where Bill Murray exhorts his comrades by explaining that America "has been kicking ass for 200 years! We are 10-1!" This bugged me when I saw the movie, and it still does. How does he arrive at 10-1? Did someone have a war and forget to tell me about it? This is what I get: 1775 Revolutionary War W 1812 War of 1812 W 1848? Mexican War W 1898 Spanish-American War W 1917 WWI W 1941 WWII W 1950 Korean War T 1960s Vietnam War L 1991 Gulf War W I thought I knew my history fairly well, but this is all I can come up with. So the best I come up with is 7-1-1, and that includes the Gulf War, which hadn't been fought yet when the movie was released. Was he counting the Civil War? Where I grew up, that one gets a W, but down here it gets an L and a bad attitude. Is he counting expeditions against the Barbary Pirates, whenever the hell that was? Was he counting Korea as a win? Even counting the Cold War doesn't help, since the movie was made before popular opinion said we'd won it. Was he just wrong? What's up? Matt "still vying for the 'more annoying' title" Shostak ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 09:09:27 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: DVPs in Khamsin Carl writes... >Matt reminded me... > >In message Wed, 10 Aug 94 15:02:04 CDT, mbs@zycor.lgc.com writes: > >>> From cdf1@psu.edu Wed Aug 10 14:40:34 1994 > >>> In message Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:39:00 -0640, >>> jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) writes: >>> >>> > If you are presented with the opportunity, kill the HTs. >>> > They are 4 pts apiece. Your MGs or ATRs can kill them. >>> >>> 5 points, actually. 1 Point for vehicle, 1 point for MA, 1 point for >>> armor and 2 points for crew. >> >> Don't you use the DVP, which is the red number on the depiction of the >> vehicle on the scenario card? I don't know whether it's 4 or 5, but the >> point is that it could be different from the standard calculation. > >Exactly correct, Matt. I had forgotten about DVP. They are indeed worth 4 >DVP which is what the VC are based on. > BUT, DVP do NOT include the crew, so the stinking HTs are worth 6 points, if I'm not mistaken... Brian (of course, I have no ASLRB to verify this...) > +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ > | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | > | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | > | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | > +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Brian Youse, System Administrator | "When I'm a good dog they sometimes | | TPOCC and CIGSS projects, CSC | throw me a bone." | | email: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov | | | voice: (301) 497-2506 | Pink Floyd | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 09:06:40 +0700 From: markg@laplace.idec.sdl.usu.edu (Mark Greenman) Subject: Re: DCs and fortified buildings > From jeff@back.vims.edu Thu Aug 11 08:47 MDT 1994 > > Ole and Brent, > > >The feeling you got from Mark nixon's article was, as far as I know, > >correct: a DC can be placed normally against a Fortified location, > >forfeiting the Breach attempt. Also, it can be placed even if the > >location contains >=one squad equivalent of Good Order enemy Infantry. > > I have trouble with this interpretation as the unit placing the DC could > _not_ enter the fortified hex while GO infantry are present (even if the > placing unit were berserk!). The placing unit has to expend MF to enter > the hex (i.e., has to be able to enter the location - it is unable to > place or throw to a higher level building location) and while it could > spend the MF to enter the hex it couldn't physically enter it due to the > restrictions on forts. I guess you could say that I grudgingly agree with > Nixon's interpretation, I just don't like it. Aren't forts supposed to > give some protection from attacks? > > Cheers, > > Jeffrey Shields > CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science > Gloucester Point, VA 23062 > > jeff@back.vims.edu I have "trouble" with the reality of the rule as well, but from the Q&A: B23.9221 What is the MF cost to Place (A23.3) a DC against a Fortified Building? Does it differ if that building Location cannot be entered by the placing unit? A. The normal two MF for building entry. No. {91} Regards, Mark Greenman ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 09:25:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Re: Stripes quote Matt: I wondered the same thing when I saw the film. I don't think he based it in reality (other than the "one" being Vietnam) but if you add in the various "colonial" expansions (Phillipines et al., Central American forays, Indian crushing, etc.) you'll come closer to ten wins. What puts you up for the "most annoying" award this side of the 49th parallel is listing 1812 as a win; at best its a tie (with both sides losing), from what little I know of it. Obligatory ASL stuff: Bazookas should place WP smoke grenades rather than WP smoke - discuss. Share & Enjoy! Brent Pollock > Okay, I just heard on the radio a quote from the movie Stripes, where Bill > Murray exhorts his comrades by explaining that America "has been kicking > ass for 200 years! We are 10-1!" This bugged me when I saw the movie, > and it still does. How does he arrive at 10-1? Did someone have a war > and forget to tell me about it? This is what I get: > > > 1775 Revolutionary War W > 1812 War of 1812 W > 1848? Mexican War W > 1898 Spanish-American War W > 1917 WWI W > 1941 WWII W > 1950 Korean War T > 1960s Vietnam War L > 1991 Gulf War W > > > I thought I knew my history fairly well, but this is all I can come up with. > > So the best I come up with is 7-1-1, and that includes the Gulf War, which > hadn't been fought yet when the movie was released. Was he counting the > Civil War? Where I grew up, that one gets a W, but down here it gets an L > and a bad attitude. Is he counting expeditions against the Barbary Pirates, > whenever the hell that was? Was he counting Korea as a win? Even counting > the Cold War doesn't help, since the movie was made before popular opinion > said we'd won it. Was he just wrong? What's up? > > > > Matt "still vying for the 'more annoying' title" Shostak > ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: DVPs in Khamsin Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 9:52:36 PDT Brian writes: > BUT, DVP do NOT include the crew, so the stinking HTs are worth 6 points, if > I'm not mistaken... > > Brian > (of course, I have no ASLRB to verify this...) Well, I do (for once) and Brian is right. F.3 says PRC are NOT included in the printed/calculated DVP. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 14:06:50 AST Subject: Re: Stripes quote Matt writes > Okay, I just heard on the radio a quote from the movie Stripes, where Bill > Murray exhorts his comrades by explaining that America "has been kicking > ass for 200 years! We are 10-1!" This bugged me when I saw the movie, > and it still does. How does he arrive at 10-1? Did someone have a war > and forget to tell me about it? This is what I get: > > > 1775 Revolutionary War W > 1812 War of 1812 W Oh yeah? We in Canada happen to think we won that one. I'm willing to agree on a draw but no more than that. Jezz. > 1848? Mexican War W > 1898 Spanish-American War W > 1917 WWI W > 1941 WWII W > 1950 Korean War T > 1960s Vietnam War L > 1991 Gulf War W > > > I thought I knew my history fairly well, but this is all I can come up with. > > So the best I come up with is 7-1-1, and that includes the Gulf War, which > hadn't been fought yet when the movie was released. Was he counting the > Civil War? Where I grew up, that one gets a W, but down here it gets an L > and a bad attitude. Is he counting expeditions against the Barbary Pirates, > whenever the hell that was? Was he counting Korea as a win? Even counting > the Cold War doesn't help, since the movie was made before popular opinion > said we'd won it. Was he just wrong? What's up? > > > > Matt "still vying for the 'more annoying' title" Shostak Alain "Come read my history books" Chabot Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 18:24:45 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: Re: Stripes quote Alain wrote: >> 1812 War of 1812 W >Oh yeah? We in Canada happen to think we won that one. I'm willing >to agree on a draw but no more than that. Jezz. Actually, it was a draw, but the U.S. won in extra time in the tie-breaker played in Louisiana. JR ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 13:34:47 EST From: RWPIKUL@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Rick Pikul ) Subject: Re: Stripes quote In message <9408111449.AA09996@ajax.zycor.lgc.com> mbs@zycor.lgc.com writes: > > > Okay, I just heard on the radio a quote from the movie Stripes, where Bill > Murray exhorts his comrades by explaining that America "has been kicking > ass for 200 years! We are 10-1!" This bugged me when I saw the movie, > and it still does. How does he arrive at 10-1? Did someone have a war > and forget to tell me about it? This is what I get: > > > 1775 Revolutionary War W Only with the help of the French fleet > 1812 War of 1812 W EX-SQUEEZE ME? When you consider that by 1814 Canadian and British troops were on the verge of taking Pittsburg, had burned Washington to the ground, and had lost only one battle. As well as the fact that the only battle won by the US was York, and that was only held for a week: I'd put this firmly in the loss collum for the US. > 1848? Mexican War W > 1898 Spanish-American War W Panama, the first time: Win > 1917 WWI W Only an assist (the Entente was already winning, the US only shorted the war) > 1941 WWII W > 1950 Korean War T Bay of Pigs: Rout > 1960s Vietnam War L You could slip Grenada in here, as well as Panama. > 1991 Gulf War W > > > I thought I knew my history fairly well, but this is all I can come up with. > > So the best I come up with is 7-1-1, and that includes the Gulf War, which > hadn't been fought yet when the movie was released. Was he counting the > Civil War? Where I grew up, that one gets a W, but down here it gets an L > and a bad attitude. Is he counting expeditions against the Barbary Pirates, > whenever the hell that was? Was he counting Korea as a win? Even counting > the Cold War doesn't help, since the movie was made before popular opinion > said we'd won it. Was he just wrong? What's up? I came up with 8-3-1 and an assist. That's even worse than what you came up with, I'd guess that the writer was just using hyperbole. Phoenix ----- From: pec@cbstp1.att.com (Patrick E Connolly +1 614 860 7163) Date: 11 Aug 94 17:45:00 GMT Subject: Assault Move/multiple MF expenditure and Defensive Fire Is a unit using assault move considered to expend multiple MF simultaneously? In particular, is a unit using Assault Move an eligible target for First Fire and SFF (and FPF ...) from the same defending unit if the Assault Move takes more than one MF ? The assault move in question includes only movement, no smoke placement, weapon recovery, or anything more exotic. What are the cases where simultaneous MF expenditure in the MPh applies to limit a defender's shot to a single FF (or SFF) even though the action takes multiple MF to complete ? Is this a FAQ ? ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 11:05:55 PDT From: jason@myra.com (Jason Langlois) Subject: Re: Stripes Quote Let me take a shot at this... WINS 1775 War of Independence 1812 War of 1812 (yeah, right... but then, it was STRIPES) 1848 Mexican War 1865 War between the States (the USA won, CSA lost) 1898 Spanish American War 1914 Mexican "War" part II 1917 World War I 193? Nicaruagua 1941 World War II 1950 Korean War (again, it was STRIPES) TIES/DRAWS LOSSES 1961 Viet Nam That'll bring us up to about the time of the movie with a 10 win, 0 tie, 1 loss record. Post movie: WINS 198? Grenada 1945 Cold War 1991 Desert Storm TIES 197? Nicaruagua Part II LOSSES 1973 Cambodia Bringing it to a 13-1-2 record? Hmm. Jason Langlois jason@myra.com These are my opinions and are subject to change when exposed to rational, reasoned and passionate debate. They are not the opinions of my employer. ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 11:07:29 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Assault Move/multiple MF expenditure and Defensive Fire > > Is a unit using assault move considered to expend multiple MF simultaneously? Yes if it would have had to expend multiple MF simultaneously had it not been using AM. The only differences between a unit using AM and one not using AM is that the former can move no more than one location, FFNA does not apply and certain things like searching can not be done. > > In particular, is a unit using Assault Move an eligible target for First Fire > and SFF (and FPF ...) from the same defending unit if the Assault Move takes > more than one MF ? The assault move in question includes only movement, no > smoke placement, weapon recovery, or anything more exotic. Yes > > What are the cases where simultaneous MF expenditure in the MPh applies to > limit a defender's shot to a single FF (or SFF) even though the action takes > multiple MF to complete ? Is this a FAQ ? > If the MF must be expended simultaneous then the defender can take multiply shots. If the MF are not expended simultaneous then the defender can only take one shot before the unit moves again. One thing to remember is that a unit using AM can make several MF expenditures, and like a moving unit it makes one and whats for the defender to declare any DF before declaring what it's next MF will be. It is even possible for the moving player to change his mind as to what the next move for that unit will be. Fred ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 12:17:48 -0600 (MDT) From: David Hauth Subject: Re: Assault Move/multiple MF expenditure and Defensive Fire > Is a unit using assault move considered to expend multiple MF simultaneously? I don't think so; the only requirement for Assault Move is: a. You move only one hex. b. The move takes < all of the unit's MF. > > In particular, is a unit using Assault Move an eligible target for First Fire > and SFF (and FPF ...) from the same defending unit if the Assault Move takes > more than one MF ? The assault move in question includes only movement, no > smoke placement, weapon recovery, or anything more exotic. E.G. If a 4-6-7 AM's from a woods hex to a woods hex (2 MF) I _believe_ it is eligible to be fired on each MF expended i.e. twice. > What are the cases where simultaneous MF expenditure in the MPh applies to > limit a defender's shot to a single FF (or SFF) even though the action takes > multiple MF to complete ? Is this a FAQ ? Alas, I don't have my Rules Book. I am also interested in the answer to this.. Cheers Dave Hauth ----- Subject: Re: Stripes quote Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 13:44:05 -0500 From: "Andrew J. Jackson" > Return-Path: mbs@zycor.lgc.com > Return-Path: ----- > Subject: Stripes quote OK, I'll address each conflict individually: > 1775 Revolutionary War W Definite W. Lost of a key star to salary arbitration (Benedict Arnold) balanced by signing experienced, free-agent Marquis de Lafayette (& the French Army) who provided experience and depth to an undermanned U.S. team. EVERYONE in the U.S. (even Hollywood) regards this as a victory as we did gain independence. Ironically, many British/Canadians regard this as their victory for the same reason! ;-) > 1812 War of 1812 W I call this a draw. U.S. did not achive it's goal of annexing Canada (as a citizen of the U.S., I say, "Thank goodness!" ;-). U.S. was getting it's butt kicked for the first 3 qtrs. (Initial invasion of Canada, Chrysler Farm, burning of Washington), but rallied under Commodore Perry and the Navy. Late score and 2pt conversion by my namesake salvaged the tie. "Stripes" (and the U.S. public) count this as a victory mainly because of the legend that emerged from the Battle of New Orleans ("In 18 and 14 we took a little trip, / Along with Col. Jackson down the mighty Mississip'..."). > 1848? Mexican War W Mexicans actually put up a decent fight. Despite that, undisputed U.S. victory (after all, the U.S. did capture Mexico City and took some >500,000 sq. miles of land). 1861-1865 Civil War W Include the Civil War. Poor coaching and QB caused U.S. to fall behind early. Coaching got its act together and sent in an unhearalded QB from Ohio who rallied U.S. to victory. Since the producers of "Stripes" do not strike me as "good ol' boys", they counted this as a victory. Many Southerners regarded themselves (and still do) as a seperate nation (consider the main issue in South Carolina at present). 1865-1890 Indian Wars W U.S. always in control despite brilliant plays by Sitting Bull/Crazy Horse and Chief Joseph (who I believe is the only Indian leader studied at West Point). My guess is that "Stripes" counted this W. > 1898 Spanish-American War W Short, sharp scrap. Unhearalded U.S. Navy sparked the victory. Since the U.S. kicked Spain out of the Phillipines and Cuba (and moved in its place), everybody gives the W to the U.S. > 1917 WWI W U.S.M.C key in stopping Ludendorff's final offensive late in the game. > 1941 WWII W Germany and Japan combine into a formidable team. Initial U.S. inexperience & tentativeness (Kasserine & Pearl Harbor/Bataan) overcome. Patton stops last gasp Gernam offensive late in the 4th qtr. EVERYBODY regards WWI & WWII as an Allied victory. > 1950 Korean War T Agreed. U.S. had tremendous firepower, but face a China team with AWESOME depth. DMZ now runs very close to 38th parallel. However, for some reason, the general public seems to think of Korea as a W (probably because the Communists did not suceed in conquering South Korea). Thus, "Stripes" counted this as a W. > 1965-1972 Vietnam War L Overwhelming favorites going in, U.S. suffered from poor coaching, poor QB, and a poor game plan. Vietnam earned right to face Afghanistan in the finals. The one loss "Stripes" mentions. BTW, August 7th was the 30th anniversary of the "Gulf of Tonkin Resolution" (how time flies). 1983 Grenada W If I remember correctly, "Stripes" was filmed not too long after Grenada (and during the peak of the "Reagan defense build-up"). "Stripes" probably included this as a W as it was still fresh in people's minds. > 1991 Gulf War W Narrow favorites going in, U.S. "Run-n-Shoot" demolished what turned out to be a badly overrated Iraqi team. Schwarzkopf declines to send in the subs as U.S. aviation unit pours it on late in the game on the road from Kuwait City to Basra. > I thought I knew my history fairly well, but this is all I can come up with. > > So the best I come up with is 7-1-1, and that includes the Gulf War, which > hadn't been fought yet when the movie was released. Was he counting the > Civil War? Where I grew up, that one gets a W, but down here it gets an L > and a bad attitude. Is he counting expeditions against the Barbary Pirates, > whenever the hell that was? Was he counting Korea as a win? Even counting > the Cold War doesn't help, since the movie was made before popular opinion > said we'd won it. Was he just wrong? What's up? Substracting the Gulf War, counting Korea and 1812 a Ws, and adding American Civil War, Indian Wars, and Greneda, I come up with the 10-1 mentioned in the movie. IMO (see the comments), the U.S. is 9 - 1 - 2. > Matt "still vying for the 'most annoying' title" Shostak BTW, the preceding was NOT meant as an in depth essay. ----- Andrew J. Jackson ajackson@keck.tamu.edu ----- From: Kenneth Kai Chi Li Subject: Rules Question-- Cannot find in Q&A Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 12:50:41 -0600 (MDT) I haven't subscribed to the list yet, still learning the system... After I read the rules in A4.4, I have a question... Well, try to find answer in Q&A from the net and still leaves me with confusion... My question is if I have a squard (3 IPC) and own a SW (2PP) after it moves a hex, it drops the SW. Then moves a hex and pick up another SW (3PP), do I need to treat it as a unit with 5PP, or just 3PP. The rules seem like that 5PP is the case. In this, which means 4 MF - (5PP - 3PP) = 2 MF. Which cannot be the case since moving 2 hex (assuming it is open) and picking up a weapon cost 3 MF... I hope that someone can straight this out for me. P.S. I don't need the FAQ. I have one already. Thanks in advance. --- Kenneth --- ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 15:09:07 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: Re: Stripes quote I'm probably one of the biggest fans on the movie "Stripes", but is this really the forum for this discussion? Chuck ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 16:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Ghostview/Ghostscript > Are these available to the General Public? I'd love to get my hands on > em. Maybe the way to phrase it to Bas de Bakker is to only put them at the > ftp site for a limited time? Hmm. Maybe we don't have to after all. I had trouble locating a FAST ftp site, but Carl Fago directed me to oak.oakland.edu. It seems less utilized and quite fast. Go to the Simtel mirror site at oak.oakland.edu and then go to /postscript You will need gs261*.* as well as (at a minimum) the 24times*.* font file. This beast seems to work well (although I've been having problems using the Windows viewer to look at scenarios or perhaps anything over one page in length). Having just gone through the (somewhat) hellacious acts required to use Ghostscript and Ghostview, feel free to holler if you need some small amount of help. The usemap.doc (?) in the perl stuff on carlo/lysator is written by Patrick Manlig (take a net bow) is also quite helpful for _getting_ those nifty .ps maps (which I have had no trouble printing (yet). Carl Fago (sorry Carl, I figured you didn't have enough to do, so now you can answer all that mail you'll get ;-) ) also seems to have a pretty good grasp of how this stuff works. Oh yah, it is DOS only. Sorry Mac(s). Paul ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 14:37:53 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Ghostview/Ghostscript > > Oh yah, it is DOS only. Sorry Mac(s). > There's a Ghostview port for the Mac called MacGS, available at any of the umich archive mirrors. Think I've got the latest version, 2.5.2(beta)2. It's an absolutely horrible port, very un-Mac'ish, but can be made to work. I use it to check that my ps files are correct before I print 'em. Tom ----- From: NolanCluff@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 19:03:31 EDT Subject: OBA Rubble. I've read the RB till I'm blue and can't find what to do about rubble creation by OBA. The book addresses what to do about direct fire on specific locations/levels but not OBA. Do I check for rubble at each building level for each buliding hex? The last rules update I have is '87. Is this issue addressed in newer RBs. Thanks folks, Nolan "I'd knock the building down if I only knew how" Cluff ----- From: r.mosher2@genie.geis.com Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 01:12:00 UTC Subject: Advanced Squad Leader ======= To: D.DOLAN6 [Phlegm] and the 'netters ======= > I received a letter from Jonathan.VanMechelen@dscmail.com@inet00# > concerning some errors in the CH version of Stuetzpunkt Vierville. > The corrections are as follows. > 1. The Direction Arrow is currently pointing toward the EAST edge. > North is toward the top of the page. This will fix the US being able > to enter right next to the beach on Turn 1. > 2. The Be5 overlay should be placed: Be5: 505-506 on D7-D6. > 3. SSR #4 shoud read: Tanks may not enter a Level 1 hill hex from > any Level 0 hex that is WEST of hexrow I. > I can't get these to go through to the Internet as Jonathan asked so > if someone who is more familiar with how the Internet works could get > these through to the folks over there I'd appreciate it. sent for the phlegmer, ron ----- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 21:42:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Tartaglia Subject: OBA Flowchart Here is my OBA Flowchart. It is set up much like a BASIC program (with if... then's and Go to's) ============================== Start: If Radio Contact was made/maintained last turn then 01: If Player whishes to make Radio Contact then 02: End 01: (has contact) If Player whishes to Maintain Radio Contact then 03: If Observer does not have LOS to SR/FFE Blast Height then 40: End 02: (wants contact) If DR <= Contact number 04: End 03: (wants maintainance) If DR <= Maintaince number then 04: End 04: (Got contact/maintance) If an FFE:C is on-board then 05: If a SR is on-board then 06: If an FFE:1/FFE:2 is on-board then 07: If Battery Access chit is Black then 29: End 05: (FFE:C is on-board) If Battery Access chit is Red 40: If Observer has LOS to FFE:C's Blast Height then 13: Remove FFE:C Go to 29: 06: (SR is on-board) If Observer has LOS to Blast Height of SR then 08: If Obsever has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in/adjacent to the SR's hex that contains a Known (to him) Enemy Unit then 09: Place AR up to 18 hexes from SR (not in SR's hex) If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in the AR's hex then 10: Remove AR If opponent whishes to end the Fire Mission then 40: End 07: (FFE:1/2 is on-board) If, disregarding SMOKE, Observer has LOS to Blast Height of FFE then 11: Place AR up to 3 hexes from FFE (not in FFE's hex) If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in the AR's hex then 12: Remove AR If opponent whishes to end the Fire Mission then 40: End 08: (SR on-board, and can see Blast Height) If Player whishes to correct SR then convert it to an FFE then 15: If Player whishes to correct SR then 22: If Player has LOS to the Base Level of the SR's hex then 14: If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in/adjacent to the SR's hex that contains a Known (to him) Enemy Unit then 14: Go to 16: 09: (can see enemy near SR but not SR) If Player whishes to remove SR then 16: End 10: (forced correction of SR, checking need for extra chit draw) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR then 32: If any of the enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR are Known to the Observer then 32: If extra chit draw is Black then 32: Go to 40: 11: (FFE:1/2 on-board and can see Blast Height) If Player whishes to correct the FFE then 18: If Observer has LOS to the Base Level of the FFE's hex (disregarding SMOKE) then 17: If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in/adjacent to the FFE counter's hex that does/did contain a Known (to him) enemy unit during this FFE's current Fire Mission then 17: Go to 40: 12: (Forced correction of FFE, checking need for extra chit draw) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the AR then 19: If any enemy ground units in/adjacent to the AR are Known to the Observer then 19: If extra chit is black then 19: Go to 40: 13: (can see FFE:C's blast height) If Player whishes to replace FFE:C with a SR then 21: If Observer has LOS to Base level of FFE:C's hex then 20: If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in/adjacent to the FFE:C counter's hex that contains a Known (to him) enemy unit then 20: Remove FFE:C If Player whishes to place a SR then 29: End 14: (SR on-board, may convert) If Player whishes to convert SR to an FFE then 36: Go to 16: 15: (SR on-board, wants to correct and convert) Place an AR up to 18 hexes from the SR's hex (not in SR's hex) If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in the AR's hex then 24: Remove AR If opponent whishes to end the Fire Mission then 40: End 16: (Cancel and replace SR) Remove SR If Player whishes to re-place the SR then 29: End 17: (can see base level of FFE) If Player whishes to cancel FFE then 40: End 18: (Player chooses to correct FFE) Place AR up to 3 hexes from FFE (not in FFE's hex) If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in the AR's hex then 26: Remove AR If opponent whishes to end the Fire Mission then 40: End 19: (FFE not accurate) Determine Direction/Extent of error for the FFE (C1.31) Place FFE Remove AR End 20: (Can see FFE:C's base level) If Player whishes to convert FFE:C to FFE:1 then 33: Remove FFE:C If Player whishes to place a SR then 29: End 21: Replace FFE:C with SR If Player whishes to correct SR then 22: End 22: (Player chooses to correct SR) Place an AR up to 18 hexes from the SR's hex (not in SR's hex) If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in the AR's hex then 23: Remove AR If opponent whishes to end the Fire Mission then 40: End 23: (chooses to correct SR and has LOS to AR's hex) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR then 38: If at least one of the enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR are Known to the Observer then 38: If extra chit draw is Black then 38: Go to 40: 24: (correct & convert SR, has LOS to AR's hex) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR then 25: If at least one of the enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR are Known to the Observer then 25: If extra chit draw is Black then 25: Go to 40: 25: If dr <= Accuracy then 35: Determine Direction of Error of SR Extent of Error equals no more than 1/3 of the range from SR to AR (FRU) Place SR Remove AR If Observer has LOS to the Base Level of SR then 36: If Observer has LOS to Blast Height and any non-Aerial Locationin/adjacent to the SR's hex contains a Known (to him) enemy unit then 36: End 26: (chooses to correct FFE, can see target) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR then 27: If at least one of the enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR are Known to the Observer then 27: If extra chit draw is Black then 27: Go to 40: 27: If dr <= Accuracy then 28: Determine Direction of error of FFE Extent of error equal 1/3 range from FFE to AR (FRU) Place FFE Remove AR End 28: (FFE is accurate) Replace AR with FFE End 29: (standard SR placement routine) Place AR If Observer has LOS to any non-Aerial Location in the AR's hex then 30: Remove AR If opponent whishes to end the Fire Mission then 40: End 30: (checking need for extra chit draw, standard SR) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the AR then 31: If any enemy ground units in/adjacent to the AR are Known to the Observer then 31: If extra chit is black then 31: Go to 40: 31: (check standard SR accuracy) If dr <= Accuracy then 39: Go to 32: 32: (SR not accurate) Determine Direction/Extent of error for the SR (C1.31) Place SR Remove AR End 33: (convert FFE:C) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the FFE:C then 34: If at least one of the enemy ground units in/adjacent to the FFE:C are Known to the Observer then 34: If extra chit draw is Black then 34: Go to 40: 34: Replace FFE:C counter with FFE:1 counter End 35: Replace AR with SR If Observer has LOS to the Base Level of SR then 36: If Observer has LOS to Blast Height and any non-Aerial Locationin/adjacent to the SR's hex contains a Known (to him) enemy unit then 36: End 36: (Player chooses to convert SR to FFE) If there are no (non-hidden) enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR then 37: If any of the enemy ground units in/adjacent to the SR are Known to the Observer then 37: If extra chit draw is black then 37: Go to 40: 37: Replace SR with FFE:1 End 38: (check accuracy of SR correction) If dr <= Accuracy then 39: Determine Direction of error of SR Extent of error equals no more than 1/3 of the range from SR to AR (FRU) Place SR Remove AR End 39: (accurate SR) replace AR with SR End 40: (Loss of Fire Mission) Remove any AR, SR and/or FFE for that battery End ================ Some of the wordwraping didn't work :< This file has tabs in it (set to 4 or 8) If you want me to send you a copy or have any corrections, feel free to write me! ==Daniel T. ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 01:35:00 UTC Subject: Fwd from Games RoundTable Category 21, Topic 2 Message 214 Wed Aug 10, 1994 D.DOLAN6 [Phlegm] at 23:55 EDT I received a letter from Jonathan.VanMechelen@dscmail.com@inet00# concerning some errors in the CH version of Stuetzpunkt Vierville. The corrections are as follows. 1. The Direction Arrow is currently pointing toward the EAST edge. North is toward the top of the page. This will fix the US being able to enter right next to the beach on Turn 1. 2. The Be5 overlay should be placed: Be5: 505-506 on D7-D6. 3. SSR #4 shoud read: Tanks may not enter a Level 1 hill hex from any Level 0 hex that is WEST of hexrow I. I can't get these to go through to the Internet as Jonathan asked so if someone who is more familiar with how the Internet works could get these through to the folks over there I'd appreciate it. Thanks ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 8:20:49 CETDST Hi, > > I've read the RB till I'm blue and can't find what to do about rubble > creation by OBA. The book addresses what to do about direct fire on specific > locations/levels but not OBA. Do I check for rubble at each building level > for each buliding hex? The last rules update I have is '87. Is this issue > addressed in newer RBs. > > Thanks folks, > > > Nolan "I'd knock the building down if I only knew how" Cluff > > >From thw Q&A file: B24.11 & B25.13 If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a multi-level building rolls an Original KIA, is each building level checked seperately for Rubble/Flame purposes? A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in the LOS of the firer can be eligible for Random Selection if that attack was made by non-mortar ordnance. {92} -- Klas Malmstrom ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: New OBA flowchart Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 9:49:04 CETDST Hi, everyone I have today (12-AUG-1994) put two files on the the ftp sites: ftp.lysator.liu.se (130.236.254.153) carlo.phys.uva.nl (145.18.218.21) These contain a flowchart on the OBA rules that me and Robert Maglica have done. One file (obafc.txt) is a text version of the flowchart. The other (obafc.ps) is a postscript version. The postscript version is a "real" flowchart, with diamonds,squares,arrows, etc. Any comments,questions,error,improvement proposals are greatly appreciated. Greetings, -- Klas Malmstrom ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 12:31:36 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: Rules Question-- Cannot find in Q&A > Kenneth Kai Chi Li writes: > > After I read the rules in A4.4, I have a question... Well, try to find > answer in Q&A from the net and still leaves me with confusion... > > My question is if I have a squard (3 IPC) and own a SW (2PP) after it > moves a hex, it drops the SW. Then moves a hex and pick up another SW > (3PP), do I need to treat it as a unit with 5PP, or just 3PP. The rules > seem like that 5PP is the case. In this, which means 4 MF - (5PP - 3PP) > = 2 MF. Which cannot be the case since moving 2 hex (assuming it is > open) and picking up a weapon cost 3 MF... > > I hope that someone can straight this out for me. > > P.S. I don't need the FAQ. I have one already. > > Thanks in advance. > > --- Kenneth --- > I don't have the rulebook here, but I'll try to answer with a little help from the QA file. First, if you don't expend any MF after the last SW has been picked up, you don't loose any MF: >From the QA file: A4.4 & A4.44 If a unit Recovers the SW at the end of its MPh (i.e., it expends no MF after gaining possession of the SW), is the portage cost assessed? A. No. {22-6} This means that after picking up the last SW, the squad has used 3 MF of its 4 MF allotment so it can pick up this SW. If the squad tries to expend its last MF, the new SW's portage cost is assessed, so the squad's total MF becomes 2 MF, which is less than it has already used. Becoming CX doesn't help either; the squad gains 2 MF, but looses 1 MF since its IPC becomes one less than normal. Notice that if the squad dropped the first SW _before_ usinf _any_ MF, that SW's portage cost is not assessed. Also remember that if a SW is dropped after the expenditure of a MF, the SW cannot be picked up by another squad later in that MPh (This is from memory, and actually an answer to a question raised earlier this week. I'm taking this from memory, but quite sure that this is right). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- From: Neal Smith Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 07:36:13 -0400 (EDT) > > > >From thw Q&A file: > > B24.11 & B25.13 If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a multi-level > building rolls an Original KIA, is each building level checked > seperately for Rubble/Flame purposes? > A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in the LOS of > the firer can be eligible for Random Selection if that attack was made > by non-mortar ordnance. {92} > Does anyone know what the reasoning is for the part about only levels in LOS of the "firer" (does firer = observer here?)? Does this apply only to Area Target Types? I mean most OBA is plunging fire, just like mortars... I can't whatch baseball anymore, so I'm going to make a run for the "annoying title" too! ;-) Later, Neal ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 14:17:02 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. > > >From thw Q&A file: > > > > B24.11 & B25.13 If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a multi-level > > building rolls an Original KIA, is each building level checked > > seperately for Rubble/Flame purposes? > > A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in the LOS of > > the firer can be eligible for Random Selection if that attack was made > > by non-mortar ordnance. {92} > > > > Does anyone know what the reasoning is for the part about only levels in > LOS of the "firer" (does firer = observer here?)? Does this apply only to > Area Target Types? I mean most OBA is plunging fire, just like mortars... > > Neal > I think the reasoning is that with the short range that we find in ASL, non- mortar Ordnace had a quite straight projectile curve so that the projectile could only get a real damaging hit on the levels in LOS even when using Area Fire. This does not apply to OBA, since OBA is not actually Ordnance. To be considered Ordnance, a weapon must make a To Hit DR before the effects DR, which is not the case with OBA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 14:29:57 CETDST Hi, > > > > > > >From thw Q&A file: > > > > B24.11 & B25.13 If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a multi-level > > building rolls an Original KIA, is each building level checked > > seperately for Rubble/Flame purposes? > > A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in the LOS of > > the firer can be eligible for Random Selection if that attack was made > > by non-mortar ordnance. {92} > > > > > Does anyone know what the reasoning is for the part about only levels in > LOS of the "firer" (does firer = observer here?)? Does this apply only to > Area Target Types? I mean most OBA is plunging fire, just like mortars... > I don't think that the "in LOS" applies to OBA - since it is not treated as ordnance. > > I can't whatch baseball anymore, so I'm going to make a run for the > "annoying title" too! ;-) > > > Later, > Neal > > -- Klas Malmstrom ----- Subject: OBA Rubble. From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 08:39:00 -0640 Howdy, NolanCluff@aol.com writes: > I've read the RB till I'm blue and can't find what to do > about rubble creation by OBA. The book addresses what to > do about direct fire on specific locations/levels but not > OBA. Do I check for rubble at each building level for each > buliding hex? The last rules update I have is '87. Is this > issue addressed in newer RBs. >From the Q&A: B24.11 & B25.13 "If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a multi-level building rolls an Original KIA, is each building level checked seperately for Rubble/Flame purposes? A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in the LOS of the firer can be eligible for Random Selection if that attack was made by non-mortar ordnance. {92}" Also, it would be nice to use "RB" for "Red Barracades" and ASLRB for the rule book. At least that's how I read them. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: RULES QUESTION-- CANNOT F From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 08:39:00 -0640 Howdy, Kenneth Kai Chi Li writes: > My question is if I have a squard (3 IPC) and own a SW (2PP) > after it moves a hex, it drops the SW. Then moves a hex and > pick up another SW (3PP), do I need to treat it as a unit > with 5PP, or just 3PP. The rules seem like that 5PP is the > case. In this, which means 4 MF - (5PP - 3PP) = 2 MF. Which > cannot be the case since moving 2 hex (assuming it is open) > and picking up a weapon cost 3 MF... I agree with your assessment that it would have used 5PP. However, from the Q&A: A4.4 & A4.44 "If a unit Recovers the SW at the end of its MPh (i.e., it expends no MF after gaining possession of the SW), is the portage cost assessed? A. No. {22-6}" So the unit can pick up the extra SW. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: "Alain Chabot" Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 10:08:06 AST Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. > From: Neal Smith > Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. > To: asl@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (List ASL) > Date sent: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 07:36:13 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >From thw Q&A file: > > > > B24.11 & B25.13 If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a multi-level > > building rolls an Original KIA, is each building level checked > > seperately for Rubble/Flame purposes? > > A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in the LOS of > > the firer can be eligible for Random Selection if that attack was made > > by non-mortar ordnance. {92} > > > > > Does anyone know what the reasoning is for the part about only levels in > LOS of the "firer" (does firer = observer here?)? Does this apply only to > Area Target Types? I mean most OBA is plunging fire, just like mortars... > Is OBA considered a non-mortar ordnance for this rule? If not, you have your answer. > I can't whatch baseball anymore, so I'm going to make a run for the > "annoying title" too! ;-) That's mine. > > > Later, > Neal > Alain Alain Chabot Universite Sainte-Anne Spiders are special animals. Let them live. ----- Subject: Re: OBA Rubble. From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 08:56:00 -0640 Howdy, Neal Smith writes: > > B24.11 & B25.13 If an Area-Target-Type/OBA attack versus a > > multi-level building rolls an Original KIA, is each > > building level checked seperately for Rubble/Flame > > purposes? > > A. No - use Random Selection. However, only those levels in > > the LOS of the firer can be eligible for Random Selection > > if that attack was made by non-mortar ordnance. {92} > > Does anyone know what the reasoning is for the part about > only levels in LOS of the "firer" (does firer = observer > here?)? Does this apply only to Area Target Types? I mean > most OBA is plunging fire, just like mortars... It does not apply to OBA, because OBA is not ordnance. Ordnance is anything that uses a TH table, and OBA does not [in the index or at the beginning of ch C]. All levels are involved in Random Selection when OBA attacks. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 09:00:34 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) Has anyone yet gotten a Critical Hit in the mail? Do any of the CH authors know when they were sent or will be sent? Tom "Sleepless in the Springs" Huntington ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 11:07 EDT From: John_T_KOVACH@umail.umd.edu (jk132) Subject: ASL Gamers List? Hey there, I'm kind of new in the area and am trying to hook up with local ASL gamers for some friendly tactical simulation on week-ends etc... Thanks to Brian Youse for putting me in touch here, and if you read this, Brian, get in touch when/if you become less swamped. Anyone who has a list of area gamers could kindly e-mail it to me (jk132@umail.umd.edu), add me to the list, or, preferably, both. Also, if anyone has any info on upcoming tournaments I'd be interested to see what's going down. Thanks in advance. jk ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 08:40:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: New MBT folk needed Treadhead wannabees: A few commands spots have opened up in a multi-player PBEM game of MBT. If you wish to join in please notify me by e-mail/shouting/carrier pigeon/etc. and tell me your preference of: NATO or PACT Infantry or Armour YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO PLAY MBT!!!!!!!!!!!! All you need are ASL boards 7, 10, 17 & 19 (or the capability to print Postscript files: I can send you the map file). I will be handling all the nitty-gritty bits whilst you sit on your butt surveying the battlefield, sending and receiving messages all the while. However, please inform me if you have MBT or have played it. First come, first served. Brent "that's Mars, god-of-war-SIR, to you, private" Pollock ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 00:51:42 EDT Subject: Tebbe's Tigers Doug Maston has graciously formatted my scenario "Tebbe's Tigers." It is now available at carlo.phys.uva.nl:/pub/bas/asl/incoming in postscript format (and in asl/scenarios in txt format). It looks great! Thanks Doug! Jeff ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 13:24:48 -0400 From: rlyon@pms157.pms.ford.com (Rob Lyon) Subject: FAUQ Fellow ASL novices: Are you tired of seeing questions being answered by rules hounds you can't beat? Do you immediately ask for scenario balance when your opponent says, "Oh yeah, I remember playtesting this one. I contributed to the 92 errata based on playing this scenario with {some famous t-shirt wearing ASL deity}." Are your tournament preparations spent in pathological fear of sitting across the table from JR in a PTO night scenario with caves, sewers, and vehicles not mentioned in Chapter H? If you answered yes to any of the above questions, then I have just what you need: Frequently Asked Unanswerable Questions (FAUQ). Whenever a grognard has you shamed into silence by continually reciting verbatim the AFV to hit modifiers, perform a minor segue, then ask a FAUQ and watch him blink his eyes in confusion. For example, "Oh, I didn't know deliberate immobilization doesn't take target facing into account. I'll have to remember that. You know this kind of reminds me of a scenario I once played against Russian ski troops in AVALANCHE (G12 -ed.). Did you know they can declare a human wave while they are on skis?" He will likely give you a strange look. The current list of FAUQs is as follows: ******************************************************************************* Frequently Asked Unanswerable Questions Why do squads and half-squads both get 3 IPC? ("Two 5PP mortars? Looks like I'm gonna have to deploy you boys if I don't want to make a minimum move every time we blow our noses.") Why are snipers allowed to shoot units completely hidden from other locations? ("Rudolph the 10-3 Nazi strategist was alone in a smoke-filled clearing completely surrounded by blazing woods, when a single shot killed him. No one could have seen him, yet he perished by aimed fire. It was an unsolvable situation for tactical units. The best leaders of the German infantry were dropping unaccountably on the Eastern Front and one man, Gestapo attached Vichy French Inspector Jacques Clouseau (Later to gain fame for jewel thievery in Paris - ed.), was sent to solve these dastardly crimes against the Reich." - "How the Gestapo lost Stalingrad" briefing delivered by Goering to the German High Command after the surrender of von Paulus) Why can Russian ski troops declare human waves? (Brought up by Jim Spencer from Toledo, OH) ( "The real reason Russian ski troops link arms in human waves is to keep themselves upright." - Finnish Mountain Infantry Training ) Why doesn't Avalon Hill publish a collection of out-of-print ASL General Scenarios? If AH is really going to concentrate on computer games from now on, you'd think they would try to milk the ASL board game consumer base for all it's worth before losing ASL product demand and in-house competence to inevitable paradigm shifting attrition. Now that the annual is put off, Rex Martin is bailing out, and Mac is learning how to use a mouse, the conclusion seems clear. So why aren't they following a logical course of action to capitalize on the resources of already published and errata'd scenarios? Once AH is a REAL computer game company, the consumer demand for photocopies of General- published boardgame scenarios will shrink to an unprofitably low amount (Ever wonder makes the photocopies?). The contractual hiring of Fortenberry smacks of concession to a cranky consumer base, not commitment to viable economic entity ('Course, I have met more than a few ASL players who OUGHT to be treated like that 8). Nobody is going for the big bucks anymore like Korea or a solitaire system. And I would wager that those two would each sell better than The Last Hurrah. AH is a stockholder owned company, and it is being directed away from easy money in a new agey computers-are-the-future fashion by someone with big plans and little ability to conduct the minor actions necessary to the successful management of ANY enterprise. How should we play the infamous Gun CA dr of KGP I's 1st date? And how come nobody's come up with a really cool alternative in one of the fan magazines like Rout Report, or ASLUG, or FFE, or, er, well, anyone? OAF, here's your chance! In non-concealment terrain, why does a 7ML squad have 1/3 higher probability to become concealed than a 7-0 SMC? I mean really. ("Squad! Take cover behind the Corporal!") Why ask why? (Bleed dry) "Because I paid $50 for this !#*@ rulebook" is NA. The American veterans fought for capitalism. ******************************************************************************* If you guys know of any more, please send them to the list and I will compile them as they appear, along with appended (or invented) commentary if deemed cheery enough. - Rob Lyon, 6+1, a frequent loser (can you tell?) hoping for battle-hardening at Oktoberfest (I was 0-5 last year) currently looking for first email game. I may post my moves a little slower than some. I have some old ASL News scenarios, the 1st 16 ASLUG scenarios, all the Annuals and the modules. I am hoping for a smaller scenario (I like to lose fast. Anxiety is a bane.) and for an email-experienced opponent who can teach me PBEM. I have both the OMH (I can read this!) and Chapter XL (Mein Gott!). ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 10:32:28 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Critical Hit > Has anyone yet gotten a Critical Hit in the mail? Do any of the CH authors > know when they were sent or will be sent? They announced on Genie last night that the first bundle was going out today, 12 Aug. Dave ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 13:27:14 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Re: Critical Hit Dave writes... >They announced on Genie last night that the first bundle was going out >today, 12 Aug. I remember Ray posting something to the effect of "...we'll be shipping out as many as humanly possible prior to AvalonCon...". Perhaps if you sent in your order before last weekend it's already in the mail. Then again, 0 is a "humanly possible" number. 8) Enjoy the scenarios, Brian ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 12:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: ZORICK@HOOVER.STANFORD.EDU Subject: I am a recent arrival at Stanford U. for grad school and am looking for ASL opponents. Anyone interested please feel free to e-mail me at Zorick@hoover.stanford.edu. I look forward to "hearing" from you. ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 15:29 EDT From: John_T_KOVACH@umail.umd.edu (jk132) Subject: D.C. Metro Area ASL Gamers List? Okay, so people all over the nation read this stuff -- thanks Martin in Colorado or wherever. What I'm interested in is a list of ASL gamers in the Washington D.C. metro area. I'm pretty new around here and have yet to find local gamers (even having attended AVALONCON this passed week-end). So, once again, if there exists such a list I'd like to get a copy and have myself added to it. My e-mail address is jk132@umail.umd.edu. And once again, thanks in advance for any help, advice, or especially information. Cheers! jk ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 16:16:14 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Marine 7ML? Guys, Flipping through some old annuals, I noticed in the '93a Annual the ad for Gung Ho! has a 7ML Marine counter in the artwork. Guess this kinda speaks of how late in the development of GH! the morale issue was just that, an issue. 8) Brian ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 17:46 EDT From: John_T_KOVACH@umail.umd.edu (jk132) Subject: So how do I view these? First of all let me thank all of you -- Matt, Brian, and Marty -- for your prompt replies to my somewhat awkward queries. Now I'm wondering how to go about accessing this bulletin board so that I too can peruse the post from goofballs like myself as well as from more experienced ASL/e-mail officianados. Don't be shy, anyone can reply. Once again, thanks in advance for any info or pointers....By the way, it's hard to believe that I'm the only ASLer in D.C. propper. Come on boys and girls, step right up to this latest challenger recently arrived from the West Coast, ready to raise hell on the cardboard battlefield. Cheers! jk ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 16:18:20 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: Rubbled Building and Building control I just drove an AFV into a victory building and oops, rubbled it on the bog check (1 colored dr). If I now capture it (it has an enemy leader there at the moment), would it count for building control. Or, have I just screwed myself by rubbling the building. Thanks, Don Hancock ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 16:57:34 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Rubbled Building and Building control > > I just drove an AFV into a victory building and oops, rubbled it on the > bog check (1 colored dr). If I now capture it (it has an enemy leader > there at the moment), would it count for building control. Or, have I > just screwed myself by rubbling the building. You can capture the location, but it is no longer a building. If it was a mult-hex building you can still control it by controlling another location. However if it was a single hex building, you now have one less building that you can control. Fred > > Thanks, > > > Don Hancock > > ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 19:15:29 -0700 From: xelvonr@cats.ucsc.edu (Sir William Koens) Subject: Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. I was interested if there is a standard protocol for playing ASL by email, and if so, what it is. -Bill Koens xelvonr@cats.ucsc.edu ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 22:46:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. We got an ASLer that's been KNIGHTED?! This is GREAT! Really, I'm serious. There has got to be a nifty tale to tell about this... Regards, Paul ----- Subject: FAUQ From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 94 22:49:00 -0640 Howdy, rlyon@pms157.pms.ford.com (Rob Lyon) writes: > Are your tournament preparations spent in pathological fear > of sitting across the table from JR in a PTO night scenario > with caves, sewers, and vehicles not mentioned in Chapter > H? What? No cavalry, motorcyclists, bicyclists and tanks that use Platoon Movement landing in gliders and evacuating by Landing Craft in mud? I'd ask for my money back :-) BTW, I'm not one of the ones you have to worry about (or perhaps you meant JR Tracy). I'm still working on my 8-0. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Sat, 13 Aug 1994 00:59:05 -0400 (EDT) From: MSAMUELS@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU Subject: Old returned message From: IN%"postmaster@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU" "PMDF Mail Server" 25-JUL-1994 22:32:20.88 To: IN%"postmaster@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU", IN%"MSAMUELS@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU" CC: Subj: Undeliverable mail: SMTP delivery failure 7) Those MA disabled results seem awfully permanent, especially for the Germans. I mean, aren't a lot of MA disabled results supposed to actually mean that the tank is out of ammo? Shouldn't there at least be a dr to fix these things? I don't want to be too leniant, but an extra Panther killing itself to MA disabled can be very bad. >>>>> Hmm. If KGP is anything like RB as soon as you roll boxcars you should hide your tank and *not* roll to fix it during the scenario. There is an exelent chance that it will be repaired by the next campaign day. Same thing for MGs. If one breaks near the end of a campaign day, just wait for the refit phase to fix it. Immob./Bog and abandoned tanks have a chance to be reclaimed if they lie behind friendy lines, else some enemy infantry zorches them during the night. 8) There is no account of one of the most critical parts of serious armoured battles - the retention of wrecks. The US should gain some benefit from non- burnt out wrecks. A lot of these vehicles could actually be made combat worthy given some time. Maybe the scale is too small, but everything I understand says how important it was to hold the field and recover as many of your wrecks as you could. As it is, the US just leaves their wrecks lying around. The same thing should apply for the germans. It would be worth simulating and would clean up the battlefield some. >>>>> I could be very wrong about this, but most of that was tanks that were mobility killed (busted tracks). If the turret or nose armor was actualy penetrated the AFV is pretty much history(right?), not to mention needing a hoze and a sponge to get the old crew members out.(eeeuwww!!!) If a crew abandons an AFV or is Imob.ed it could be quickly jacked up, a new piece of track slaped on, and a fresh crew put in. Yes? The busted up tanks would be canabalized for engine parts which would wear out on the long deployments. Spare parts on the hoof! ----- Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 23:17:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Mailing List?? Hi all. Has anyone round here either suggested or implemented a DL wide mailing list which could be distributed not unlike the digest or record? If not, how would you all react to such a list? Is there support for such a thing if some dope [ :) ] was to volunteer to do it? The way I envision it is a listing of everyone by real name, with city, phone #, e-mail address, etc. I guess one could provide as little or as much information as one might like. Well, what say ye ? Shall it be done ? Darren Gour ----- From: Mike Kreuzer Subject: ASL'ing on a mud? Date: Sat, 13 Aug 1994 20:37:51 +0930 (CST) Hiya all, A while back I caught the tail end of a discussion about a MUD that had been set up somewhere with rooms in it where virtual ftf games of ASL were played. Sounds great to me, trouble being that I didn't catch the telnet address/ port number. Does anyone out there no where this mythical beastie lives? Ta - Mike. -- _________________________________________________________________________ "Want to change the world? Mike Kreuzer There's nothing to it .." kreuzer@apanix.apana.org.au Willy Wonka Voice/Fax/Data +61-8-296-4416 ----- Date: Sat, 13 Aug 1994 07:33:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: SPW 250 & 251 /sMG OK, I know it's probably in the errata someplace, but could some one tell me why, on page H12, can a crew or passenger lift the aft 3 fp MG and it becomes a dm HMG, while the front 7 fp CMG can only be removed per D6.631 (no gripe there!), but is then a LMG! What gives? Shouldn't the CMG be removed as a dm HMG, and the secondary be removed as a LMG? I await a reply (feraful that this is another one of them you can see over the wall, past the building, over the crest...nothing but critcal hit type Q's)..... ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- From: William G Jelinek Subject: Re: SPW 250 & 251 /sMG Date: Sat, 13 Aug 94 8:33:16 EDT Paul asks: > > OK, I know it's probably in the errata someplace, but could some one tell > me why, on page H12, can a crew or passenger lift the aft 3 fp MG and it > becomes a dm HMG, while the front 7 fp CMG can only be removed per D6.631 > (no gripe there!), but is then a LMG! > > What gives? Shouldn't the CMG be removed as a dm HMG, and the secondary be > removed as a LMG? > > I await a reply (feraful that this is another one of them you can see over > the wall, past the building, over the crest...nothing but critcal hit type > Q's)..... > > ***************************** > Paul F. Ferraro > Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA > ***************************** > > If I recall the previous conversation on these vehicles correctly, it was because the AAMG had all the hardware necessary for HMG conversion stashed in the back of the HT. The CMG didn't have a tripod, et al. once removed, so you only get an LMG. Of course, these functionalities are reversed for a vehicle IN an OCEAN LOCATION (not "location") with HA over a Known, Good Order, enemy unit in the PTO ;) I guess this would be for the FAUQ list: How does a unit IN an OcEaN lOcAtIoN get HA over anybody? Adios, Bill =============================================================================== Bill Jelinek jelinek.1@osu.edu --OR-- Screw baseball! wjelinek@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Go Browns. =============================================================================== P.S.--It figures, the first Indians team in contention in my _lifetime_ and the morons (from both sides) decide to strike. Baseball sucks. ----- From: Mats Persson Date: Sat, 13 Aug 94 14:35:52 +0200 Subject: Re: ASL'ing on a mud? > I didn't catch the telnet address/ port number. >Does anyone out there no where this mythical beastie lives? telnet mud.lysator.liu.se 2000 When you enter the first room, type 'asl' and you teleports to the asl-room. Mats Persson ----- Date: Sat, 13 Aug 94 13:55:36 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: The new General (29 #3) Lightning struck my mailbox today--I received the new General and my FFE back issues (Thanks, Rob). Made my day. At first glance, this seems like a very good issue. Two ASL scenarios, two short ASL articles (less than three pages total) and another ASL AREA Top 10 list were all the ASL coverage. They also ran a small ad for ASL Annual subscriptions. The ASL scenarios look pretty decent. "Camp Nibeiwa" is a 4 board North African scenario pitting the British against the Italians, with armor and infantry on both sides. "A Tough Nut to Crack" is a PTO scenario with Australian armor and infantry trying to penetrate a Japanese defensive line. The physical presentation of the General has changed substantially with this issue. The paper feels thinner, and the outside cover is not as stiff. The layout and artwork seem much more professionally done. The contest presentation looks especially good! The whole issue looks very nice. Despite the fact the Breakout: Normandy is the focus of the issue, I don't think that its coverage dominates the issue. Here's the list of feature articles: In Defense of Normandy (BKN) A Matter of Priorities (BKN) Guerilla Making Assassinations work in Assassin The Rhetoric of Games (CIV and HOTW) History of the World Civilization Operation Crusader Scenario Briefing (ASL) Series Replay-Breakout: Normandy Designer's Notes (ASL). The Operation Crusader article is subtitled "Tips and Tactics." It includes a very short Scenario After Action Report, and seems to be just like all the tactical articles Avalon Hill has always published for its boardgames, which I think is very encouraging. They look like they are being very serious about this move to the computer game market. If they keep up producing issues like this, I'll gladly renew my subscription. Dave ----- Date: Sat, 13 Aug 1994 22:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: Re: Mailing List?? A good place to get a number of ASL email addresses is on the bottom of Will Scarvie's Record. I think it's Record Part 1. Anybody contributing to the Record is present on that list. I don't know what proportion of lurkers, if any, are there. I think a mailing list is a fine idea. I travel enough (and occasionally without family in tow) to play ASL in some out of the way places (like Ojai, California...). My $0.02 Jeff ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 00:18:22 PDT From: erimli@systems.caltech.edu (Bahadir Erimli) Subject: Gateway 14 Hello friends. Will any of you be attending Gateway 14 at the LAX Hyatt hotel in LA this Labor Day weekend ? I'll most probably be there and would like to know if I'll get a chance to meet anyone from the List. take care, bahadir ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 00:41:58 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: Stripes quote ac> Oh yeah? We in Canada happen to think we won that one. I'm willing ac> to agree on a draw but no more than that. Jezz. j> Actually, it was a draw, but the U.S. won in extra time in j> the tie-breaker played in Louisiana. j> j> JR Wrong. The war had ended, the papers had been signed, but mass telecommunications being what they weren't in those days, the news hadn't reached Louisiana yet. So the US won the battle of New Orleans, but it was moot by that time. -Grant. ... "Tourist Season" : When it's OK to shoot them. -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 00:41:50 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: Stripes Quote I'm sure I'll not be the first Canadian to take this up, but how do you figure you won the War of 1812? Both sides kicked butt at different times in that war, with cities being razed on both sides of the border, but the net effect of the war was to leave the status quo. A tie, if you will. But looking closely, it was the Americans who attempted to invade, so as Canada (the Brits) successfully thwarted the invasion, the Americans actually lost. Let the flames begin! m> 1775 Revolutionary War W m> 1812 War of 1812 W m> 1848? Mexican War W m> 1898 Spanish-American War W m> 1917 WWI W m> 1941 WWII W m> 1950 Korean War T m> 1960s Vietnam War L m> 1991 Gulf War W -Grant. ... 24 hours in a day...24 beers in a case...coincidence? -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- From: r.woloszyn@genie.geis.com Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 11:11:00 UTC Subject: CH ASL Opponents Wanted "OPPONENTS WANTED" The editors of "Critical Hit" are planning a listing of ASL players all over the country. Maintaining a large listing of SE ASL players (my "Winds of War" mailing list), I intend on forwarding that list to "CH". Because wargamers relocate faster than SP Arty, I am asking anybody that would fall into the SE area (read former Confederate States) to send me your current address and phone (optional) so that I might have the most current listing possible. I intend to repeat this announcement from time to time so be warned. I personally think this is a good idea as we all would like a census of ASL'ers. Think of it as a potential lobby group. To make the list a success and not a rehash of the regular disciples, please include your "unconnected" opponents who never subscribe to zines or have E-mail capability. All information will be only used for ASL purposes (scout's honor). Raymond "Zadra" Woloszyn - Partisan AK ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 12:24:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Critical Hit! Still Available Well, mixed messages coming from the CH! gang. Last week I passed along a note that CH! #1 was out of stock, unavailable, etc. This is what I read right off GEnie. Lately, messages have implied that they might still be available. A direct question to the CH! gang about the availability solicited the response that, yes, CH! #1 is still available. So, to repeat, Critical Hit #1 is still available for ordering. To order, send $8.00 + $1.95 shipping and handling in the USA & Canada ($3.95 shipping and handling for other countries), check or money order in US funds to: Critical Hit! 88 Lodar Lane Brewster, NY 10509 Hope this helps someone. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Subject: STRIPES QUOTE From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 12:02:00 -0640 Howdy, N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) writes: >I'm sure I'll not be the first Canadian to take this up, but how do you >figure you won the War of 1812? [More inflammatory material, for those of you old enough to remember the War of 1812.] >Let the flames begin! I don't want to be a wet blanket to your flames, but there are other fora that are probably more appropriate for such a discussion. I should think a military history, american history or canandian newsgroup would be better. The War of 1812 would seem to me to be outside the scope of ASL. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 11:47:46 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Critical Hit! Still Available The rumor I heard (can any one confirm) was that CH! had sold / distributed all the copies it first went to press with. It found several ERRATA. These are being fixed and a new print has/will go out. mike ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 12:07:08 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Unansered previous Q's Never heard back an answer to my questions: Can a unit portage a DC (or any sw) as far as it can go, drop it, have another unit retrieve it, go as far as he can go drop it, etc, etc. I know its not in the spirit of the rules -- but it sure is handy at times. also known as the Bucket Brigade -- of course you have to drop the bucket and not hand it off :-) for it to work! Also: what about setting up vehicles abandoned w/ w/o scounging/removal? cheers, mike ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 10:14:18 -0700 Subject: Stripes and American Defeats From: Canadian_Traveller@mindlink.bc.ca (Canadian Traveller) Not to belabour the point, but we musn't overlook the Invasion of Canada in 1775. The Brits and Tory Militia kicked the Continental Army's ass all over hell and high water in that one... So, how many defeats does that make it? :) J.D. -- J.D. Frazer [Art Director] + The views expressed in this article do Canadian Traveller Magazine | not necessarily reflect the opinions of Vancouver, British Columbia, CANADA | the publishers. a11870@mindlink.bc.ca + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 14:23:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Unansered previous Q's In message Sun, 14 Aug 94 12:07:08 CDT, seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) writes: > Can a unit portage a DC (or any sw) as far as it can go, > drop it, have another unit retrieve it, go as far as he > can go drop it, etc, etc. I had thought that there was something in the Q&A that didn't allow this. But I can't seem to find anything to disallow this in either the Q&A or the rules. > Also: what about setting up vehicles abandoned w/ w/o scounging/removal? I'd say that this is not allowed. It is not specifically allowed in the rules whereas other allowances are identified (vehicles in Bog terrain, and setting up HD) so would not be legal within the framework of the Introduction. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 14:25:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Critical Hit! Still Available In message Sun, 14 Aug 94 11:47:46 CDT, seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) writes: > The rumor I heard (can any one confirm) was that > CH! had sold / distributed all the copies it > first went to press with. It found several ERRATA. > These are being fixed and a new print has/will go out. There are several minor problems with some scenarios. From what I have read on GEnie, anyone who orders will get an errata sheet, either with the issue or mailed seperately. I seriously doubt they sold all the copies they went to press with. It was over a thousand I think. Unless they are getting them to distributors, I think they have original runs left. But this is speculation. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Subject: Unansered previous Q's From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 14:34:00 -0640 Howdy, seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) writes: >Never heard back an answer to my questions: Oops: forgot this one. >Can a unit portage a DC (or any sw) as far as it can go, >drop it, have another unit retrieve it, go as far as he >can go drop it, etc, etc. >I know its not in the spirit of the rules -- but it sure >is handy at times. Not only against the spirit, but against the rules assuming you hope to move the SW in one MPh: A4.4 PORTAGE: "No item can be portaged more than once per phase except as allowed by combined Infantry and vehicle portage within a single phase." > Also: what about setting up vehicles abandoned w/ w/o > scounging/removal? In the absence of rules allowing such, I would say no. The way I can justify this is that when you are given the OB, the vehicle is not abandoned, scrounged, or removed. To get it into one of those statuses, the action would have to be performed. These actions are performed during the owner's MPh, and since there is no MPh in the pre-game and no rule allows these actions other than in the owner's MPh, it couldn't be done then. You might try NUTMAIL (a Q&A to TAHGC) to see if they would be interested in allowing it in pre-game, but I doubt they would be. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: BArcher@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 16:39:44 EDT Subject: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) At Acon I was playing Totsugeki! when my opponent did a banzai with several units into my units hexes. Fine, but in ADPh he tried to advance out of my hexes (towards the guns of course!). After having a heart attack I blurted "You can't do that!!" :) We could not resolve it, so we got a MacSez, to wit: "if you are covered by a CC counter you can not advance". I heartly agree, but the only thing I can find in the rules to back Mac up is A.12. The problem is that A.12 just says you remove the CC counter at the end of CCPh, it does not say you can not advance. I guess I am just bothered that it is not more clearly stated what the effect of a CC counter is. An errata anyone? Bill ----- From: r.mosher2@genie.geis.com Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 22:22:00 UTC Subject: Gateway 14 ======= To: From: ERIMLI@SYSTEMS.CALTE ======= Sub: Gateway 14 > Will any of you be attending Gateway 14 at the LAX Hyatt hotel in LA > this Labor Day weekend ? I'll most probably be there and would like to > know if I'll get a chance to meet anyone from the List. I'll probably be there - look forward to seein' you. ron ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 19:45:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) In message Sun, 14 Aug 94 16:39:44 EDT, BArcher@aol.com writes: > At Acon I was playing Totsugeki! when my opponent did a banzai > with several units into my units hexes. Fine, but in ADPh he > tried to advance out of my hexes (towards the guns of course!). > After having a heart attack I blurted "You can't do that!!" :) I had the unpleasant opportunity to be subject to a Banzai charge at DonCon also. They are really nasty. I hadn't realized just how nasty. First, the Banzaiing units are not required to get to the target hex. Second, they can advance normally. Third, only one unit out of many has to have LOS to the target hex. Really nasty...a bunch of Japanese units could move 9 hexes, not be CX, have increased morale (by one), not Pin, HoB, or PAATC while they are in Banzai. Personally, I think they should be allowed to advance normally even with a CC marker on them. They are not in melee so are not held in melee. This is explicit at the end of A25.231. I don't see how a CC marker can prevent anyone from advancing...it is the Melee marker which holds units in a particular hex. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- From: Rudel@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 00:53:08 EDT Subject: new (old) scenario on 'net Hey gang - I've just posted my fully laid-out rendition of Brent Pollock's "Melfa Bridgehead" (ASL BP2) scenario to Carlo. It is a Post Script file, compressed with Pkzip 2.04g. It was created on Aldus Pagemaker 5.0a and is in colour (the red bits) for all you folks with access to colour printers or service bureaus. More to follow (eventually). Enjoy - Craig Cooper spending more time fiddling with asl than actually playing it 74537.573@compuserve.com ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 11:33:07 --100 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: Subscription >Bob Merrill wrote > > unsubscribe. > > I enjoyed the group, but the traffic is too great. > > Bob > > Bob Merrill isn't the first ASL'er that has quit the list due to the great traffic, once in a while someone suggests that we make a newsgroup to get rid of the filled mailboxes. However, we have already got something that works almost like a newsgroup; The FTP-sites. If you think its too much to get 30 messages a day from the list, you may unsubscribe, but still get all the messages. All mail sent to this list is saved in the asl-archive at "carlo.phys.uva.nl". 'carlo' makes a new file once or twice a week, that is; _all_ the messages to this list is saved in one big, compressed file every fifth day or so. In addition it has a 'current' file which is the messages that has been posted to the list since the last compressed file was saved. This means that without subscribing to this list, you may send question to the list and take part in discussions by reading the compiled messages from 'carlo' once in a while. I guess most of you knew about this feature , but according to the newsgroup discussions, it seems that few have thought of this use of the archive. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 12:43:21 --100 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Scenario musing HI everyone! I have just counted my scenarios, and found that including General 29-2, Avalon Hill has released exactly 250 scenarios (excluding campaign games) for ASL; we ought to celebrate... Did you know that the best ASL scenario is scenario G Hube's Pocket? After combining Darren Gours favourite poll with Will Scarvie's ASL record I found that 83.3% of the games played of Hube's pocket makes this scenario one of the favourite scenarios of one player. Fighting Withdrawal on the other hand is getting only 2.4% favourite polls. Here are the 'best' scenarios, found by dividing the number of favourite votes by the number of games reported: ID Scenario Name # of Votes % of games played === ============= ========== ================= G Hube's Pocket 5 83.3 Deluxe 10 The Final Battle 2 66.7 Atp 8 Italian Brothers 2 66.7 CG III The Barrikady 5 50.0 ASL 71 Jungle Citadel 5 45.5 E Hill 621 8 44.4 ASL 34 A New Kind Of Foe 2 40.0 KGP I Clash At Stoumont 2 40.0 ASL 25 Gavin's Gamble 2 33.3 Deluxe 8 The Schoolhouse 3 33.3 TT3 Panzers Marsch! 2 28.6 ASL 65 Red Star, Red Sun 3 27.3 Deluxe 7 With Flame And Shell 2 22.2 ASL 54 Bridge To Nowhere 3 18.8 A 60 Totsugeki! 4 18.2 F Paw Of The Tiger 2 18.2 ASLUG 14 Morgan's Stand 2 18.2 A 25 Cold Crocodiles 7 15.9 ASL 37 Khamsin 3 15.8 C Streets Of Stalingrad 3 15.8 Notice that ASL 4 The Commisars House, the 'winner' of the favourite poll, did not make it into this top 20 of 'best' scenarios. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Subject: Advance after Banzai (Mac From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 94 19:49:00 -0640 Howdy, BArcher@aol.com writes: >At Acon I was playing Totsugeki! when my opponent did a banzai >with several units into my units hexes. Fine, but in ADPh he >tried to advance out of my hexes (towards the guns of course!). >After having a heart attack I blurted "You can't do that!!" :) >We could not resolve it, so we got a MacSez, to wit: "if you are >covered by a CC counter you can not advance". >I heartly agree, but the only thing I can find in the rules to back >Mac up is A.12. The problem is that A.12 just says you remove >the CC counter at the end of CCPh, it does not say you can not >advance. I guess I am just bothered that it is not more clearly >stated what the effect of a CC counter is. An errata anyone? To my knowledge, there is no rule or erratum on this subject except your MacSez. Since Mac writes the rules, it is unclear to me why he would need a rule to back himself up. It does strike me as something that ought to be published, however, since as you say, the rules are vague on the subject. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:16:59 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: RE: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) Especially since you can rout away from a CC hex but not a Melee hex! mike ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 09:19:16 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (Mac Remember that on occasion, given sufficient lobbying (for lack of a better term), MacSez answers have changed or conflicted previous MacSez. mike ----- Date: 15 Aug 1994 10:48:11 U From: "Noah Matt" Subject: Pittsburgh ftf Hey Pittsburgh boys -- I'll be in town next week on business, and I'm looking for some ftf. I arrive Sunday night around 7 PM, and I leave Thursday afternoon. Willing to play anything (except Subterranean Quarry) each and every night, unless the strike is over and the "Bucos" are in town, then there will be *one* baseball night. I'm staying at the Vista Hotel, which I have been told is downtown, but I probably won't have a car. Thanks. Matt Noah noah_matt@prc.com ----- Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 19:45:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) In message Sun, 14 Aug 94 16:39:44 EDT, BArcher@aol.com writes: > At Acon I was playing Totsugeki! when my opponent did a banzai > with several units into my units hexes. Fine, but in ADPh he > tried to advance out of my hexes (towards the guns of course!). > After having a heart attack I blurted "You can't do that!!" :) I had the unpleasant opportunity to be subject to a Banzai charge at DonCon also. They are really nasty. I hadn't realized just how nasty. First, the Banzaiing units are not required to get to the target hex. Second, they can advance normally. Third, only one unit out of many has to have LOS to the target hex. Really nasty...a bunch of Japanese units could move 9 hexes, not be CX, have increased morale (by one), not Pin, HoB, or PAATC while they are in Banzai. Personally, I think they should be allowed to advance normally even with a CC marker on them. They are not in melee so are not held in melee. This is explicit at the end of A25.231. I don't see how a CC marker can prevent anyone from advancing...it is the Melee marker which holds units in a particular hex. +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | A sucking chest wound is | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | Nature's way of telling you | | Carl Fago State College, PA | to slow down. | +-------------------------------+------------------------------+ ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 12:00:35 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: Red Star, Red Sun After Action Report: Red Star, Red Sun --------------------------------------- Over the weekend, I got the chance to play this one against David Hailey at our Central Texas ASL meeting. It's any interesting scenario, with the Japanese and the Russians clashing in the desert. Looking over the scenario beforehand, I noted that his creeping barrages wouldn't be likely to directly harm my units, since my foxholes meant that they would be hitting with 16+4s and 8+2s, depending on whether my guys were in sand or in the open. The real power of the barrage is the hindrance that it provides. Any LOS traced through it receives a +2, not the usual +1 for OBA. Combined with the light dust, it gave the Russians plenty of cover for their infantry to move across all the open desert terrain. I set up my units with about three squads on the center front sand dune, all adjacent to each other so they could possibly form firegroups. One of my leaders was with them. On the right front I had one squad in a foxhole, and on the left front were two squads in adjacent foxholes. I set up one HMG with the 10-1 at the back right of the middle board, and the other HMG with the 10-0 at the back left of the middle board. They were situated in order to be able to cross firelanes in front of my middle forward group, and also throw overlapping firelanes across the middle board toward each other. A squad and LMG went next to the 10-1 to provide support. Two half squads with mortars were in the deir on the right of the last board, with a squad in front of them. They had no foxholes and were set to entrench right away. The two ATGs went on the sand dune in the middle of the last board, one pointing to each flank. Dave's plan of attack was sound. His creeping barrages overlapped slightly, but covered nearly the entire length of the board. His infantry advanced behind it with relative ease. I decided not to roll for my fighter bombers until after his armor made its appearance. He kept his infantry spread out, but often could form very large firegroups. He had one group attack each side, and one in the middle. The barrage did little damage to my front line, but by the time is was past them, the Russian infantry was practically on top of them. The IJA soldiers were able to do some damage, but the Russians kept coming. In the middle and on the left, the speedy Russian tanks pulled up adjacent to the front line units in order to pound them, with infantry advancing in with the tanks to protect them. When the Japanese turn came, the front line units, knowing that they were in a very desperate situation, advanced onto the tanks for close combat. The presence of the AFVs made the CC sequential, and using the hand-to-hand numbers, the Japanese were able to dispatch several Russian squads. But of course, the front line had been wiped out. My Japanese reinforcements simply took up positions on the sand dune between the antitank guns and entrenched. I thought they might be used for a last-turn banzai charge against units in the victory area, but that never occurred. They actually did very little, except that the mortar scored a critical hit that eliminated one and a half Russian squads. I probably misused this group. The Russians then took to driving their tanks right on top of the Japanese infantry to suppress them. It was effective, though one tank was lost this way. The fighter bombers finally made a brief appearance, but the pilots were lousy. Three attacks on stationary tanks netted just a shock result, but that was against the only vehicle of his with smoke ammo. The shock turned out to be a kill. With no smoke available, the other tanks tried to throw up dust screens to cover their advance, and eventually the right flank HMG nest was suppressed. By this time the ATGs had started shooting, however, and another tank was immobilized. Its crew bailed out (hey, they're worth 2 victory points!). The Russian tanks couldn't quite reach the left flank HMG, which opened up in the ensuing Japanese Prep Fire Phase, and kept rate for about half a dozen shots, breaking most of the Russian infantry in the area. The next turn two tanks suppressed this strong point as well, but the Japanese managed to hold their adversaries in melee long enough to prevent their movement to the victory area. One tank that ventured on to the last board a little too early was dispatched by one of the rapid fire ATGs on an intensive fire shot, despite being hull down in a deir. Although there had been some setbacks, it still looked good for the Russians on their last turn. But I didn't realize that the barrage was going to lift. When it did so, it removed some substantial cover from the infantry, and made the going more difficult. Still, the Russians had two tanks that could make it. They had just finished clobbering the left flank HMG. They started up in platoon. The ATG fired on them and missed. The had to cross a couple hexes of sand, however, and bogged! Random selection was a 4,4 which bogged both tanks two or three hexes from victory on the last turn! That was ten points the Russians missed out on. They had just enough points of infantry available, but several were broken due to the lack of cover, and they fell just short of the needed total to win. All in all it was a close, fun game. I think, however, that most of the Japanese strategy is really in the setup. It's not desirable to move around with the barrage coming, and since it's not easy to dig in the desert, it seems better to stay in the foxholes that are already there. The only clever move on the Japanese part during the game was the advance into close combat with the Soviet tank-infantry teams. Overall, David played a really good game and I thought he deserved to win. Perhaps his only mistake was in having the barrage lift early, and he still would have won if he didn't have such an unlucky bog roll on his last turn. I'd play this scenario again. Cheers, Matt Matthew B. Shostak Landmark/Zycor mbs@zycor.lgc.com (512) 292-2357 "That's a human scenario, Matt. You and your nacho culture." - Detective Sam Francisco ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 13:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com Subject: RE: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) "Carl D. Fago" writes: >BArcher@aol.com writes: > At Acon I was playing Totsugeki! when my opponent did a banzai > with several units into my units hexes. Fine, but in ADPh he > tried to advance out of my hexes (towards the guns of course!). > After having a heart attack I blurted "You can't do that!!" :) >I had the unpleasant opportunity to be subject to a Banzai charge at DonCon >also. They are really nasty. I hadn't realized just how nasty. I had the same experience. I look forward to inflicting some of that nastiness on my opponent the next time I get the IJA :-) My opponent and I received the same "Mac Sez" while playing Totsugeki!, BTW so at least during DonCon, Mac seemed to stay consistent. [Carl's excellent summary of Banzai'ers features deleted...] >Personally, I think they should be allowed to advance normally even with a >CC marker on them. They are not in melee so are not held in melee. This is >explicit at the end of A25.231. I don't see how a CC marker can prevent >anyone from advancing...it is the Melee marker which holds units in a >particular hex. Here's where I'll disagree with Carl. I don't think Banzai units should be allowed to advance out of an enemy's hex because: * What other units can advance out of an enemy hex? Sure you can rout out, but I can't think of any advance outs...Am I missing one? * It makes Banzai units too powerful - they're pretty tough as it is and now they can effectively infiltrate your front line infantry? Ouch. * My impression of Banzai units is they're near berserk, charging the enemy to engage and destroy the opposing infantry - no way a unit in that state declines HtoH CC and bypasses the units they just charged. Banzai Guys are real men and would stay for the CC IMHO. I agree the rulebook is real sketchy on this one, but I don't see anywhere in the rulebook which says you CAN advance out of an enemy hex...What's that saying, concentrate on what the rules explicitly allow? And lastly, is it just me or did this message show up twice (along with a few other repeats)? I figured it was a sign I should have replyed the first time I guess :-) Bret Hildebran hildebranb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com PS Anyone interested in a ladder game? I'm down to 1 currently and since I'm not sure when round 2 of Berserker II starts up again, I could use another...Let me know if you're interested... ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: FAUQ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 18:49:14 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > In non-concealment terrain, why does a 7ML squad have 1/3 higher probability > to become concealed than a 7-0 SMC? I mean really. > ("Squad! Take cover behind the Corporal!") Oops! I think someone is reading the rules backwards? I thought that you had to roll _lower_ than 6 with dr+US#, meaning that the squad has a lower chance to gain concealment. (Yeah, I know - this _is_ a list of unanswerable questions, but anyway!) -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 13:28:13 -0400 From: rlyon@pms157.pms.ford.com (Rob Lyon) Subject: FAUQ concealment question Patrik Manlig writes > Hi, > > In non-concealment terrain, why does a 7ML squad have 1/3 higher probability > > to become concealed than a 7-0 SMC? I mean really. > > ("Squad! Take cover behind the Corporal!") > Oops! I think someone is reading the rules backwards? I thought that you > had to roll _lower_ than 6 with dr+US#, meaning that the squad has a lower > chance to gain concealment. (Yeah, I know - this _is_ a list of unanswerable > questions, but anyway!) Concealed in my innocuous question is a malignant brain fart. Didn't see it, eh? What I MEANT to type is: **************************************************************************** In non-concealment terrain, why does a 7ML squad have 1/3 lower probability to become concealed than a 7-0 SMC? I mean really. ("Squad! Take cover behind the Corporal!") **************************************************************************** Now I know 'close' only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, but you gotta admit, getting 1 word wrong out of 16 is not bad. I didn't even misspell anything like 'potatoe-masher'. The argument I've heard goes along the lines of "10 people lying flat on their stomachs trying to hide in the middle of a city street don't look any more ridiculous than 1 person on his stomach trying to hide in the middle of a city street." I think it is a matter of personal taste, myself. 1/3 does seem like a lot to me, but nothing to freak out over. The alternative would be to assign a US# of 3 or more to ANY unit trying to gain concealment in non- concealment terrain, and I think there's enough rules as is. I can't say I've ever seen various numbers of people trying to look sneaky in open streets, but I'm guessing the US# simulates the amount of bad language generated amongst units told to "get down and be quiet" in inopportune places. -Rob ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 19:46:23 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, I've been doing this for a long time, and I have checked several times for rules that would disallow it. I even asked the list about it I think. Nothing. Nope, I haven't been able to find a rule that says you can't, and quite frankly I don't expect to find one either. As someone pointed out you _can_ certainly rout out of a CC Location, but not from a _Meelee_ Location. Those are two different things, and I think one of those things that are hard to understand from the rules is the distinction between Meelee and CC. Unless you are in Meelee, you _can_ move out of the other guy's Location. You can do pretty much anything as long as you're not in Meelee. That's what the rules say at least, as far as I understand them. As a matter of fact, what exactly _is_ CC? Well, as far as I can remember you "mark the Location with a CC counter to show that they [the units] are not yet in Meelee". Meaning that CC is being in the same Location as an enemy unit while _not_ being subject to the negative effects of being held in Meelee. You also have your fire capabilities reduced by not being able to fire outside your Location. If CC is meant to be anything else I don't think it is discernable from the rules. I think it important to remember not to trust your feelings about what the rules _should_ say too much. Much of what seems counterintuitive can be rationalized both ways. What bothers me about this one is that it's an attempt to fix something that ain't broken. Sure, you might not _like_ the fact that someone that is mad enough to make a banzai charge/human wave can just choose to ignore you and go on to get at what you're trying to protect, but it's not something that is broken IMHO. I might be wrong about this, but I sure would like to see it in print before I change the way I play. Not that I would mind the change that much, but I get a little irritated when it seems like Mac and I are playing with two different sets of rules... Granted, there may be some bug corrections in his set, but I still expect them to contain basically the same thing as the official rules. If not, I'd love to pay for getting errata sheets. If TAHGC can't even provide that I think it sucks. As a matter of fact that's exactly where we are today. (Note that I say TAHGC in the preceeding sentence, and not Bob M. - I'm not blaming him for the fact that TAHGC can't get out errata faster. On the other hand I wish that he would stick to what's official, too, until he can get out errata that changes the official rules.) Sigh. I'm getting long-winded... Time to stop whining I guess. Apologies in advance to anyone that feels offended. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 20:19:12 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > I had the same experience. I look forward to inflicting some of that > nastiness on my opponent the next time I get the IJA :-) My opponent > and I received the same "Mac Sez" while playing Totsugeki!, BTW so at least > during DonCon, Mac seemed to stay consistent. If he has his mind on changing the rules to that effect, fine. I just wish he'd say "It's not in the rules, but I intend to change it to not being allowed" instead of "it's not allowed". And make sure the errata is published so that people get to know about it! > [Carl's excellent summary of Banzai'ers features deleted...] > > >Personally, I think they should be allowed to advance normally even with a > >CC marker on them. They are not in melee so are not held in melee. This is > >explicit at the end of A25.231. I don't see how a CC marker can prevent > >anyone from advancing...it is the Melee marker which holds units in a > >particular hex. > > Here's where I'll disagree with Carl. I don't think Banzai units should > be allowed to advance out of an enemy's hex because: I, on the other hand, agree with Carl. > * What other units can advance out of an enemy hex? Sure you can > rout out, but I can't think of any advance outs...Am I > missing one? Actually, I find this rather irrelevant. But, you asked: * Units performing a human wave. * Units bailing out into an enemy occupied hex, if they remain GO. (This is a guess, I don't know if they are specifically prohibited) Same for units unloading in an enemy-occupied hex. * Weirdo: unit that was accompanied by a leader that broke while the units itself didn't and therefore had to end their MPh in the same Location as a until-then concealed enemy unit because they were using bypass... Basically you should be asking yourself in how many ways you can get into CC before the APh. I think that some explicitly prohibits advance out while the others do not. That is a sure sign that it is generally OK to advance out as long as you're not in meelee. Also, I think that it _is_ important that you may rout out of a CC Location. You are generally able to rout, and the rules for CC doesn't prohibit you to do so (neither do they prohibit advance) so why shouldn't you. I can't find any rule that states that routing (only) is specifically allowed during CC. > * It makes Banzai units too powerful - they're pretty tough as it > is and now they can effectively infiltrate your front line > infantry? Ouch. Hardly relevant. I'll simply say that I don't agree. Staging a successful banzai charge is hard. > * My impression of Banzai units is they're near berserk, charging > the enemy to engage and destroy the opposing infantry - no > way a unit in that state declines HtoH CC and bypasses the > units they just charged. Banzai Guys are real men and would > stay for the CC IMHO. This is trying to rationalize what the rules are trying to simulate. The problem is that you can do this in many ways. I don't think that banzai guys are necessarily near-berserk. They're just _very_ determined, and willing to just charge the enemy regardless of losses. Now, let's say thet they were ordered to take the hill/gun/whatever, but there is some infantry between them and their real objective. I think that the Japanese would be just the right guys to just go on not only into, but _through_ the enemy lines. > I agree the rulebook is real sketchy on this one, but I don't see anywhere > in the rulebook which says you CAN advance out of an enemy hex...What's that > saying, concentrate on what the rules explicitly allow? Ugh! I hate that phrase! See above why advancing is allowed (it is generally). The problem with motivating anything with that sentence is that people are very likely to interpret it differently... BTW, I think it is "... what the rules allow ..." without the "explicitly". I hope you're not offended, Bret, but I think most of this is wishful thinking - or at least you've forgotten that "rationalizing" a rule is a bad thing to do since no two people seem to do it in the same way. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 14:12:10 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) Lets take this a step further: You can have a situation that develops such that a concealed unit enters a another concealed units hex -- Neither side wishes to lose concealment (real not just dummies) and therefore no CC attack occurrs -- They are in CC, but not held in Melee. Technically, the next phase Attackers Unit could move out, certainly he could advance -- thus advancing out of CC. If I have everything right above, we have a precedence for advancing out of cc. OK, just in case -- I'll throw up another similar but even more plausible situation. both sides have 2 concealed units. Both sides reveal 1 unit apiece. They anihilate each other but both sides still has 1 concealed unit -- thus in CC but not Melee! That of course leads to all sorts of interesting questions I'll save for a later post. (Like what are the ramifications if only one side is concealed -- KNOWN enemy type ramifications) cheers, mike ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 15:05:15 CDT From: Andrew McCulloh Subject: Advance after banzi I knew that there was something really bothering me about the Macsez. And after reading the rule book again I came accross it. Like many rule allowances it is not a direct statement: G1.5 "[discussing lax after banzi charge]...Each unit/stack that performs a banzi charge should be marked as Lax (see 1.6) at the end of its MPh if it is in (or able to advance into) an enemy-occupied Location." (nb banzi charge should be capitalized!) Now what does this really mean? Well if the banzing unit can advance it is lax. Of course it doesn't say that the unit can advance - but when does the ASLRB present a clear case? Andrew ----- Date: 15 Aug 1994 16:10:04 U From: "William Cirillo" Subject: Carlo Scenario Problem Subject: Time:3:16 PM OFFICE MEMO Carlo Scenario Problem Date:8/15/94 I recently attempted to down-load several of the postscript scenarios from carlo. I was able to successfully print all of them except for Debacle at Korosten. The problem with DaK is that everything on the scenario sheet printed except the unit graphics. Has anyone else had this problem or am I missing something? Bill Cirillo w.m.cirillo@larc.nasa.gov ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 16:42:28 EDT Subject: Critical Hit Scenarios A quick request and comments on the Critical Hit scenarios. First, I seem to have misplaced (read lost) the errata for the "Steutzpunkt Vierville" scenario posted last week. Would someone not as clumsy please send me the errata. Thanks. Second, for all you scenario designers out there. I REALLY like the way alot of the entry edges are used in these scenarios. By allowing entry on a corner of the board the scenario is not as bottled up by the board edges and allows the attacker better chances for manuver tactics. It makes the defenders job harder, but then thats why theres ABS. Alan ----- Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 17:58:04 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Portage Question Hi kids, Nothing about advance-after-Banzai in this post. I promise. Mike asked: > Can a unit portage a DC (or any sw) as far as it can go, > drop it, have another unit retrieve it, go as far as he > can go drop it, etc, etc. No. > I know its not in the spirit of the rules -- but it sure > is handy at times. A4.44(87) "... No item can be portaged more than once per phase except as allowed by combined Infantry and vehicle portage within a single phase." Sorry, no bucket brigades. Dave Ripton ----- Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 00:19:00 -0640 Howdy, Allowing advance out of an enemy Location after a Banzai should be considered from many points of view, but I am going to focus on the impact of that choice on the game system. Heretofore if you had a line of squads, you could block movement of the enemy with "bodies." The only way to "overrun" the enemy was in vehicles. If Banzai participants are allowed to leapfrog enemy positions, this will change fundamentally the way Infantry can fight with each other. First there are problems with scenario design. No longer can a "solid" line prevent enemy units from running through to grab victory hexes or exit the board. Second the Japanese could exploit this in ways that I don't think they could in real life. They could Banzai, then advance to the next hex. In their next fire phase they can encircle the leapfrogged positions. I've never heard of a real Banzai attack doing anything like that. Two arguments I would like to dismiss if I can. First, someone argued that it doesn't matter because it's hard to conduct a successful Banzai. I think the difficulty of performing a Banzai charge is not relevent. If it can be conducted at all, it should not produce any anomolies. Second it was suggested that some are trying to rationalize their interpretation of the rules with an argument about reality. I have frequently argued that bringing in arguments about the real world is a bad practice when one is trying to decide what an existing rule means. In this case we are not trying to decide the meaning of a particular rule, but whether a rule that does not exist (as least as I read them) ought to be created. In this case it is absolutely necessary to consider the real world. In sum, I think that allowing Banzai participants to advance out of enemy locations will produce situations that the real thing never did, while dis-allowing it does not create any anomolies. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 02:49:00 UTC Subject: LaddermeistersMatch With 3 turns left, Tom's stormtroopers are steadily crushing my valiant defenders and closing on the last three guns. After a gross mistake that cost him a squad and a 9-2 on the second turn, Tom's advance has been masterful, taking full advantage of his capabilities, as well as the errors in my defensive adjustment. The game isn't over yet, but it looks like it is going his way. Phil ----- From: BArcher@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 20:05:48 EDT Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez >From: m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se > If he has his mind on changing the rules to that effect, fine. First of all, Mac is did not say he was changing his mind. When I suggested an errata I meant there should be one to clarify the situation since it is only tenuously covered in the ASLRB. > * Units performing a human wave. human wave: same as banzai, says they have a normal ADPh > * Units bailing out into an enemy occupied hex, if they remain > GO. Same for units unloading in an enemy-occupied hex bailing out and unloading: says nothing about ADPh > * Weirdo: unit that was accompanied by a leader > that broke while the units itself didn't and > therefore had to end their MPh in the same > Location as a until-then concealed enemy unit > because they were using bypass... A12.151: states that the units are not yet in Melee, thus any broken units can rout away; nothing at all about ADPh. > Basically you should be asking yourself in how > many ways you can get into CC before the APh. I > think that some explicitly prohibits advance out > while the others do not. That is a sure sign that > it is generally OK to advance out as long as you're > not in meelee. You need to site some rules Patrik, as far as I can find NONE of the above examples say anything about advancing out of an enemy hex in ADPh; whereas they do say you can rout during RtPh. I interpert the rules to say that advance during ADPh is NOT allowed in any of the above cases. >From: seningen@ross.com >You can have a situation that develops such that a concealed unit >enters a another concealed units hex -- Nope, A12.15 Requires the defender to loss concealment for at least one unit, and the attacker to stop in the previous hex. >OK, just in case -- I'll throw up another similar but even more >plausible situation. both sides have 2 concealed units. Both >sides reveal 1 unit apiece. They anihilate each other but both >sides still has 1 concealed unit -- thus in CC but not Melee! Yup, this and A11.71 (talks about mounted infantry: skis, calvary, cyclist, and mobile vehicles, leaving Melee) are the only cases I can find that explictly states that a non-broken unit can move out of a CC/Melee hex. I believe these are the exceptions that prove the rule of no advance while under CC! Besides all of the above: Why is there a CC counter? To mark the absence of Melee? Then just leave the Melee counter off! The CC counter prohibts advance, and that is all it does. The injunction of "Concentrate on what the rules do allow; not on what they don't specifically prohibit" has to apply to this case! Sorry this is so long, but I started it! :) Bill ----- From: s.pleva@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 04:07:00 UTC Subject: CH! I understand that someone posted a message saying that Critical Hit! was sold out. This is not true. We still have plenty of copies left. However, one never knows when we will place a "Low Ammo" counter on our CH! stack because we have received a couple of big orders (50) and some of the game stores have expressed an interest in carrying our magazine. So, for all of you who may have missed the original announcement: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Available now... CCCCCC ----------- C | | C | | C | o | CCCCCC | | ----------- | | |-------- | | H H | o | H H | | HHHHHH | | H H ----------- H H Critical Hit! - The Independent Journal of ASL Q. What is CH!? A. Thirty-two pages of ASL euphoria including articles for the neophite, rare information critical to scenario designers, and ten, count 'em, TEN scenarios for all play abiliies. Scenarios span the spectrum from tournament size to monster, challenging the green and battle hardened alike. Q. How do I get my hands on a copy (or two) of CH!? A. Send $8.00 plus $1.95 shipping and handling in the USA and Canada ($3.95 for shipping and handling overseas) to Critical Hit!, 88 Lodar Lane, Brewster, NY 10509. Shipping discounts on bulk orders available. Copies will also be available direct from Critical Hit! representatives at AvalonCon '94 in Baltimore, MD and the '94 ASL Oktoberfest in Youngstown, OH. ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 07:21:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez > human wave: same as banzai, says they have a normal ADPh This _is_ true...but all it could be saying is that a beserk (banzai) unit can advance one hex (location) in the advance phase. If they haven't closed with the enemy, they are permitted to advance into or closer to them. Just a clarification! I really don't want to be embroiled in this particular hoopla! Paul ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 08:15:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez In message Mon, 15 Aug 94 20:05:48 EDT, BArcher@aol.com writes: >> * Units performing a human wave. >> > human wave: same as banzai, says they have a normal ADPh So can advance out of an enemies hex. >> * Units bailing out into an enemy occupied hex, if they remain > GO. >> > Same for units unloading in an enemy-occupied hex > bailing out and unloading: says nothing about ADPh Doesn't have to. The APh has been delineated before this. Thus if you meet the previous requirements for APh movement, there is no additional restriction placed on these units. Its very simple. >> * Weirdo: unit that was accompanied by a leader >> that broke while the units itself didn't and >> therefore had to end their MPh in the same >> Location as a until-then concealed enemy unit >> because they were using bypass... >> > A12.151: states that the units are not yet in Melee, thus any > broken units can rout away; nothing at all about ADPh. Same argument as before. APh proceeds with no other restrictions. Thus, they can advance out normally. It does not need to say explicitly that they can advance out normally. > You need to site some rules Patrik, as far as I can find NONE > of the above examples say anything about advancing out of an > enemy hex in ADPh; whereas they do say you can rout during > RtPh. I think that your arguments, Bill, point to exactly the opposite effect. > I interpert the rules to say that advance during ADPh is NOT > allowed in any of the above cases. I really don't see how. The subsequent rules change nothing about how the APh is to be conducted or limit the units' actions in the APh. > Besides all of the above: Why is there a CC counter? To mark > the absence of Melee? Then just leave the Melee counter off! > The CC counter prohibts advance, and that is all it does. Now you're conjecturing, Bill. The rules explicitly state that the CC counter is there to mark that there is no melee there. It says nothing about limiting the APh actions. > The injunction of "Concentrate on what the rules do allow; not on > what they don't specifically prohibit" has to apply to this case! And they specifically allow normal APh. This is due to the previous rule about Advance. The rules have to be taken as a whole, not, conveniently, in parts. If, what you say is true that no advance is allowed due to the CC counter, then no TPBF is allowed in the AFPh. But this is allowed and has been done by me and others. Without specific guidance the advance out is allowed. I can take the Mac Sez for what its worth but I sure don't see it backed up by the rules. It wouldn't be the first time that this has happened. *-=Carl=-* ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 08:11:28 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: ASL World Cup Last week, Brad McMahon reported to me that Steve Osborne has defeated him in his round 2 match, moving the Canadians into the ASL World Cup finals against either Team Sweden or Team USA1. Later, Chuck ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 10:01:08 -0500 (EST) From: WITEK@suvax1.stetson.edu Subject: Night Article Is there anybody out there who could send me a plain-text version of JR's Night article that I've heard so many wonderful things about? The Americans are poised in front of the the Left Tit, but they're having trouble getting started because it's too dark to read the ASLRB. :-) Thanks, Rusty witek@suvax1.stetson.edu ----- From: Gord.Reid@aslnut.qleap.com (Gord Reid) Date: 14 Aug 94 23:13:51 -0800 Subject: Trivia Hey, what ASL player is currently on strike as a Major League ballplayer? Answer in a few days unless you all already know. BTW, do you know if he has an Email address? gord -- | Fidonet: Gord Reid 1:340/30.107 | Internet: Gord.Reid@aslnut.qleap.com | Standard disclaimer -> goes here. | Via Quantum Leap BBS Gateway Victoria B.C. Canada (604)595-4407 ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 08:47:27 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: LaddermeistersMatch > With 3 turns left, Tom's stormtroopers are steadily crushing my valiant > defenders and closing on the last three guns. Oh, the Guns! That's right, I have to go for the Guns! The Brit infantry is getting pushed back, but that don't mean squat if I can't bother the guns, whose IFE capability effectively makes them 8 FP MG's with ROF of 2. Gack. I keep trying to generate a Berserker to be the first ones into the breach, but nobody's volunteered yet. > After a gross mistake that cost him a squad and a 9-2 on the second turn, I've revised my estimates of that affair to merely an "unfortunate incident". I think that risking a 1(-2) shot is necessary now and then. Risking it with a 9-2 and two MG-toting squads is, well, uh, approaching "questionable." > Tom's advance has been masterful, taking full advantage of his capabilities, This is Phil's kind way of referring to my ability to roll well. Nary a fire phase has gone by without my rolling a 2 or a 3, or even both. To his credit, Phil has not uttered anything approaching a whine, which is more than I could say if I were getting diced as badly as he is. > as well as the errors in my defensive adjustment. Few and far between. Every turn he presents me with concealed units in +2 terrain sitting squarely along my advance route. I would not mind losing this one. Tom ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 10:40:26 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: Re: Trivia > Hey, what ASL player is currently on strike as a Major League ballplayer? > Answer in a few days unless you all already know. That would be 2-8 Curt Schilling of the National League Champions - Philadelphia Phillies. (Sorry Brian, but I had to respond.) > BTW, do you know if he has an Email address? Not that I know of. Chuck ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 10:57:52 -0400 (EDT) From: HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com Subject: Re: Advance after Banzai (MacSez) Patrik Manlig writes: > If he has his mind on changing the rules to that effect, fine. I just > wish he'd say "It's not in the rules, but I intend to change it to not > being allowed" instead of "it's not allowed". And make sure the errata > is published so that people get to know about it! Agreed. When I asked at AvalonCon I assumed that I was missing something in the rulebook that prevented it. After a careful perusal of the rulebook I couldn't come up with any justification for the "Mac Sez". A.3 Says that advance must be explicitly restricted by the rule or else units may advance. The cases where you can have the potential for advance from an enemy hex (I think this is all of them & thanks to those who educated me on a lot of them...) * Human Wave & Banzai (virtually identical) * Passengers & Riders unload/bail - says no special rules * Bypassing concealed unit - may rout no word on advance * Concealed unit avoiding melee - doesn't say to mark with a CC counter so I'm not sure if he counts, but it does explicitly say he can move/advance * Berserk charge - must be good order to advance so he can't I couldn't find anywhere that defined what a CC counter meant other than to signify it wasn't a melee. Therefore I must agree that the rules do not seem to support this particular "Mac Sez". Personally, I like the "Mac Sez" mostly for the reasons which JR so eloquently stated - I agree wholeheartedly with his post... > I hope you're not offended, Bret, but I think most of this is wishful > thinking - or at least you've forgotten that "rationalizing" a rule is > a bad thing to do since no two people seem to do it in the same way. No offense taken, and hopefully I haven't offended anyone myself. I'm in a quandary as to how to play Banzai charges now - do I follow the "Mac Sez" saying they can't advance which I agree with philosphically (not that it matters much but I always prefer rules I can justify to myself) or do I play by the rulebook which seemingly says they can advance? Hmmmm...Maybe it's time for a Q&A letter... How would you play it? Mac Sez? or rulebook? Bret Hildebran hildebranb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 16:56:59 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: Banzai charges All this talk about Banzai charges has centered on the advance issue so far, but I'd be interested in hearing comments on Banzai usage and tactics in general. I've actually used the 'advance from CC' once, at AvalonCon, with a TH Hero. The TH Hero charged into a pair of Final-Fired lmg/447 Russian squads in Red Star/Red Sun; the squads obligingly failed the MC on the mandatory TPBF attack, and the Hero continued on to attack a BT in an adjacent hex. I don't recall if this occurred in the MPh or the APh, however, but it is explicitly allowed in the rules governing TH Heros. Other Banzai fun: - tie up those pesky machine gun nests with a Banzai charge early in the MPh - great use for wounded leaders; they can go it alone if within striking distance to 'pin' a stack, or can be used to 'launch' a Banzai charge even if they have insufficient MF to make it the whole way (better check the ASLRB on the latter, however) - try a 'column' charge, where the IJA units are lined up to hit a single hex one after another; if they survive the residual, three units can guarantee an MC by at least the third unit, probably earlier Some key things to remember are 1) Banzai-charging units can't be ambushed if they enter the enemy hex during the MPh and 2) leaders can charge alone, already mentioned above. Note that the tactics above are relatively sleaze-free, and don't touch upon the use of the Banzai charge for super-fast-forward movement mentioned in an earlier post. The latter technique is frowned upon in our tiny circle; ASL News PTO scenarios typically include an SSR designed to shut down this usage. Too many ASL players regard the Banzai charge as an act of desperation to be used only after all else has failed. In fact it is a vital option in the Japanese suite of tactics, and has uses in the early, middle, and end-game. All you hosers yet to punch the counters of your copy of Code of Bushido, you don't know what you're missing! Come on in, the water's fine! Take it easy, JR ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 11:14:44 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: LaddermeistersMatch (fwd) > >> [Phil's sucking up deleted] > > [Tom's sucking up deleted] > > Sheesh, what's with the mutual admiration society? THIS IS A WAR !!!! > Tom's Rules of Engagement: #1. Roll low. #2. When playing somebody who has 30x the number of games experience that you have, DON'T get them angry. #3. If you're winning, remember that #1 is how you got there #4. When playing somebody for the first time, hold off on the bitching, woofing, and whining. Save it for the second game. #5. Appreciate your opponent's good play. #6. Don't piss off the Woof Gods; it ain't over till it's over. These are coming into play in this one. Tom ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 11:14:29 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: Striker G> Hey, what ASL player is currently on strike as a Major G> League ballplayer? Answer in a few days unless you all G> already know. Curt Schilling. G> G> BTW, do you know if he has an Email address? He used to be on GEnie, but I don't think he is any more. -Grant. ... Every exit is an entry somewhere else -- Tom Stoppard -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 13:08:55 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Banzai charge -- Tactics I like to position my Japaneese so that I am in a string vertically oriented to the target so that I can hit him over several impulses. I like to further position the troops so that the largest stack can;t quite make it, and then advances in. You might think this would be difficult, but typically the Japaneese enemy is in a set piece defense in restrictive terrain. Typically you can get into CC w/o worrying about ambush (assuming even a lowly 1/2 sq survives all in hex fire) and reduces the effectiveness of the defenders firepower by making him chose his targets wisely. The use of forced final protective fire is also an added benifit. If you can issolate his unit and threaten the above tactics after performing them once or twice -- you have one a big advantage as the Japaneese -- the Psychological advantage. cheers, mike ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 16:20:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: LaddermeistersMatch (fwd) In message Tue, 16 Aug 94 11:14:44, tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) writes: >> >> [Phil's sucking up deleted] >> > [Tom's sucking up deleted] > Tom's Rules of Engagement: > > #1. Roll low. #7. I'd rather be lucky than good. *-=Carl=-* ----- From: dade_cariaga@MENTORG.COM (Dade Cariaga) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 13:30:42 -0700 Subject: Able at Cesaro Howdy, howdy, and a fine day to you all. Okay, so I'm playing the Amis in Able at Cesaro this Friday. Who's got any ideas? I've played this as the Amis before, and really clobbered my opponent, so let's try it from a new angle..... How would you play this as the Italians? My idea would be to stay as concealed/HIP as possible until the Amis close. Use the field phones and artillery to pester them as they cross the open ground (you can't expect much more than that with the scarce ammo restrictions). Maybe take a few pot-shots with the MGs at particularly juicy targets. But AVOID losing concealment until they get close to the foot of the hill. Hopefully that will minimize their range advantage. The other thing I'd do is try to keep my troops fairly close together. Italians have a tendency to get a little -er- reflective in the face of fire and the leaders will be very busy trying to get them to pay attention to the matters at hand. The mines should go right up adjacent to the victory hexes, and put an MMC or two on the reverse slope of the hill for that last minute sleaze victory. Still, I don't think the Italians can really stand up to the challenge in this one. We'll see... Anyone else? Dade ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:39:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Barden Subject: KGP II? Hello, I've recently rejoined the list after an extended hiatus for academic reasons. At the risk of inadvertently opening a can of worms, can someone please mail me the latest news on when KGP II will be released? And, if anyone knows, when will the 94 Annual be out? Thanks a bunch! Carl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From David Letterman: Top Ten Ways to Make the World Cup Soccer More Exciting 10. Let 'em use their damn hands! 9. Replace ball with round pinata filled with killer bees 8. Put one of them speedin' buses on the field 7. Give one guy on each team a powerful jet pack 6. Have Madonna inflate the ball 5. Three words: naked penalty kicks 4. Instead of 22 players, 1 ball, 1 player and 22 woodchucks 3. Make nets out of sexy black lingerie from Victoria's Secret 2. Score a goal, do a shot 1. Losing team executed on "Donahue" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: c.fago1@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 23:57:00 UTC Subject: AH Announcements This up on GEnie: From: AVALON.HILL Folks - For those of you who may not yet know, I have resigned from Avalon Hill, this Thursday being my last day. After thirteen years with the company, it is with some regret that I depart. I will miss the many gamers I've met, and the many I have not yet had a chance to meet. But, I also leave with a fair amount of anticipation, for I am returning to complete a task I set for myself many a year ago. Come next week, I will be enrolled in the Interdisciplinary PhD Program in Mass Communications at Penn State. Besides the several seminars, I have also been granted an assistantship, and so will be involved in the instruction of some undergraduate classes. Should keep me busy, but not such that I will drop from the hobby ranks. I plan on doing some writing, and will certainly try to attend the major conventions in this area next summer. See you then. Craig Taylor has also asked that I inform you that he, too, has resigned, giving his two-week notice this Friday past. I do not know what his plans are, but I am sure that a designer of his ability - with a scope as wide as the Smithsonian introductory games to the likes of FIREPOWER and WS&IM - will not be quiet for long. It's been a real pleasure to have worked with Craig for a decade or so, and I proudly claim him as a friend. If any of you'd care to drop a note to him, he will be around for the next week or so tidying up. I'm sure he'd appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun, guys. Best - Rex A. Martin ------------ +--------------------------------+-----------------------------+ | *-=Carl=-* cdf1@psu.edu | Be wary of strong drink. | | GEnie - C.FAGO1 | It can make you shoot at tax| | Carl Fago State College, PA | collectors -- and miss! | +--------------------------------+-----------------------------+ ----- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:45:16 CET From: patman@gdpc.se (Patrik Manlig) Subject: Banzai! (well, about banzai charges, actually) Just responding to some messages about Banzai. I'll try to be brief. Before I start I'd like to make some things clear: * After checking the rules I agree with Mac (and others) that the rules SHOULD state that advance is N/A when you are covered with a CC counter. * The above is NOT in the rules as they are written! * I AM irritated when things like this can't be distributed the way they were supposed to; by issuing errata. * I would also appreciate if Mac knew what was in the rules and what isn't (which he probably does) and that he let us know that he knows (meaning there would be less discussions about a "Macsez") * I definitely dislike arguments that come down to either person trying to invoke one of two things: i. "Concentrate on what the rules allow..." AAAARGH! Do I even need to comment this? It is perhaps the most useful sentence in the entire ASLRB because it can be interpreted to support _any_ argument whatsoever (well, almost anyway). ii. "The rule should work like this - because that is the most realistic way to do it" ...and variations on that theme. The rules DON'T work exactly like you think they do. If they did there wouldn't be any need for rules! On to the comments: Bret Hildebran writes: > Hmmmm...Maybe it's time for a Q&A letter... Please! > How would you play it? Mac Sez? or rulebook? By the rules. NOT because I'm stubborn, but I don't want to get into lengthy discussion at a tourny or elsewhere because I have to explain to my opponent that there is a "Mac Sez" that has changed this particular rule. I think it is most fair if everyone has the same set of rules to read. To Bill Archer: I think that Carl pretty much sums up what I think about your argument. This isn't in the rules at all, and I think your reasoning is at fault for exactly the reasons Carl point out. Carl: Hey! Those were MY lines! :-) JR: I agree with you all the way - it's just that I was arguing about what was in the rules NOW, not what we would want in them in the future. (I guess this might have been lost, however) -- Patrik Manlig @ Gefle DPC [ Please send personal email to pman@hgs.se, or finger that account ] ----- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 07:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Banzai! (well, about banzai charges, actually) In message Tue, 16 Aug 1994 19:45:16 CET, patman@gdpc.se (Patrik Manlig) writes: > * I AM irritated when things like this can't be distributed > the way they were supposed to; by issuing errata. > > * I would also appreciate if Mac knew what was in the rules > and what isn't (which he probably does) and that he let us > know that he knows (meaning there would be less discussions > about a "Macsez") In defense of Mac, I don't think he is given the time at AH to create the errata that all of us would love to have. Now, Gary Fortenberry would be the guy to bug about getting something in the General or the 94 Annual. In other words, I think we can pretty much blame AH for the lack of errata. > Carl: > > Hey! Those were MY lines! :-) Ok, Carl and Patrik, vying for most irritating. Matt and Matt are fighting for the most annoying. BTW, to the generic question, "How would you play it?" If in a tourney, I would allow Human Wave and Banzai'ers to advance normally within the rules as written. If playtesting scenarios, I would allow them to advance normally within the rules. If playing a generic ftf game I would bring it up before sides were chosen...I could play either way. I would consider it a House Rule to _not_ let them advance. Oh, and let's make sure we're clear on this, this whole thing applies to Human Waves also. *-=Carl=-* ----- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 06:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Trivia > That would be 2-8 Curt Schilling of the National League Champions - > Philadelphia Phillies. (Sorry Brian, but I had to respond.) Well I'll be darned. Guess you can't hate ALL baseball players now..... ----- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 06:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: LaddermeistersMatch (fwd) Repetti's Rules of Engagement: > #1. Roll low. > #2. When playing somebody who has 30x the number of games experience that > you have, DON'T get them angry. > #3. If you're winning, remember that #1 is how you got there > #4. When playing somebody for the first time, hold off on the bitching, > woofing, and whining. Save it for the second game. > #5. Appreciate your opponent's good play. > #6. Don't piss off the Woof Gods; it ain't over till it's over. Oooooo nooooo! Tom has put himself in PRINT! He has been PUBLISHED. Soon Tom will be deluged with offers to play, knowing that he always uses the Repetti Rules of Engagement! Say it ain't so Tom! Don't leave yourself open like this! QUICK! SEND ERRATTA! ----- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 06:47:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: LaddermeistersMatch (fwd) > Sheesh, what's with the mutual admiration society? THIS IS A WAR !!!! This really isn't sucking up on Tom's part. Idahoians, particulary the transplanted variety (adversity makes them hardier - just like potatoes), can be quite sculdugarous. Under normal circumstances, while his opponent is basking in the etherial (this is a 'net game ;-) ) glow of Tom's carefully crafted words, Tom, Himself, is sneakily advancing all of his units as fast as possible. This is the classic "make them feel good and they won't shoot at you" ploy. Now two comments: (1) This sort of ploy doesn't work on Pat Manlig. (2) It apparently can be used against you, which is what Phil seems to be doing. The question that remains to be answered is: Will this turn into a non shooting, feel good match? OR.... Will Phil and Tom snap out of it, to grimly face each other in a final, searing turn of PBF and CC? Tune in next time...... ----- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 07:30:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Trivia In message Wed, 17 Aug 1994 06:16:49 -0400 (EDT), Paul F Ferraro writes: >> That would be 2-8 Curt Schilling of the National League Champions - >> Philadelphia Phillies. (Sorry Brian, but I had to respond.) > > Well I'll be darned. Guess you can't hate ALL baseball players now..... Well, he _used_ to play ASL. I understand that he hasn't played ASL in a long time. I heard that he is into XCOM instead. I suppose 2.8 million will do that to a guy. :-) *-=Carl=-*