----- Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 01:10:17 -0400 From: snow@canusr.DNET.NASA.GOV (Martin Snow) Subject: Looking for D-Day player (Denver) Hi gang, The Denver area ASL players are getting together to recreate D-Day. It's going to be 16 feet of ASL beach, recreating much of Gold Beach. The plan is for 8 players per side. We're still looking for a couple of players, so if you're within driving range of Denver, let me know. It'll be the beach landing of a lifetime! (D-Date is June 4th, this Saturday!) Marty Snow snow@lyrae.dnet.nasa.gov ----- Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 16:47:31 EDT From: lfr@LEAF.sema-grenoble.fr Subject: Opponent for a ladder game Hi everybody, I am looking for an opponent for an ASL ladder game. That will be my first ladder game, so I have 1 000 points. I play ASL since 1986, so I am not a real beginner. I know all of the ASL rules, except Deluxe ASL. I dislike Night scenarios. Except that, I would be happy to play any non-monster official* scenario (let's say less than 9 turns and less than 25 units by side). *module, Annual ASL or The General scenario Laurent FOREST (Grenoble, FRANCE). ----- From: RCRUDGE@zoo.uct.ac.za Date: 1 Jun 94 11:31:04 SAST-2 Subject: Random Weather for KGP I Hi all Ran a little program for the weather in KGP I and came out with the following: clear vl light mod heavy vh xh 19AM no cloud 100.0 19PM no cloud 27.6 18.4 18.3 18.7 overcast 14.1 1.0 1.0 0.9 19N no cloud 18.3 10.2 20.5 20.9 10.4 overcast 11.4 1.4 2.8 2.8 1.4 20AM no cloud 8.8 21.9 22.0 10.9 10.8 overcast 8.3 5.7 5.8 2.9 2.9 20PM no cloud 26.2 18.8 18.8 18.8 overcast 13.4 1.3 1.3 1.3 20N no cloud 18.2 10.4 20.5 20.6 10.4 overcast 11.5 1.4 2.8 2.8 1.4 21AM no cloud 8.7 21.9 22.2 10.8 10.9 overcast 8.3 5.8 5.6 2.8 2.9 21PM no cloud 26.2 19.0 18.7 18.8 overcast 13.4 1.3 1.3 1.3 The figures are as a percentage ie the chance of clear and no cloud cover on the 19PM turn= 27.6% or a clear turn with no mist on the 19PM turn= 41.7% (27.6+14.1). Ofcourse all the AM,PM and N turns should be the same (exc. the 19PM turn - preceeding weather cannot be clear or cloudy) - perhaps if the program was run for a million games, but I only used 120 000 games. Hope they are useful Robin ----- From: Mats Persson Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 18:01:57 +0200 Subject: Uncompressed at ftp.lysator.liu.se > I downloaded "Bring On The Night" in binary, and my Mac has NO IDEA that >there is a great article in here somewhere! Has anyone converted it to >text and posted it uncompressed? Most of the compressed files on carlo.phys.uva.nl is in uncompressed and readable format at ftp.lysator.liu.se. /Mats Persson ----- Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 13:57:55 MST From: oppen@analog-dse.sps.mot.com (Bob Oppen) Subject: Ft. Lauderdale Players Greetings, Are there any players in the Ft. Lauderdale, FL area the would like to play FTF July 2-9? I will be visiting my girlfriend's parents during this week and would like to get in some FTF play while she sweats on the beach. Thanks, Bob Oppen ----- Date: Wed, 01 Jun 1994 10:19:24 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: 12-pt facing system uJK> Hello! Forgive me if this seems a stupid question, but what is uJK> a 12-pt facing system? I play ASL and MBT/IDF and have never uJK> heard of it. Is it something from MBT/IDF that I missed? Any uJK> help would be appreciated, you can email me direct if you dont uJK> want to tie up net space here. Thanks! Jeff- It's a facing system for vehicles and guns that lets you set up not only facing hexsides but also hexspines. It was published in FFE. Subscribe! -Grant. ... "A phsycotic is a guy who's just found out what's going on." - William S. Burroughs -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 10:03:27 +0200 From: bas@phys.uva.nl (Bas de Bakker) Subject: ASL test The ASL test by Bas de Bakker (bas@phys.uva.nl) This is in the public domain (if that's ok with TAHGC). Here is a test designed to find out what kind of an ASL player you are. Assign yourself one point for each question answered with yes. Did you ever ... 1 break voluntarily? 2 make a motion attempt? 3 declare a gun duel? 4 use a human wave? 5 carry a wounded SMC? 6 force a prisoner to attempt clearance? 7 attempt kindling? 8 destroy a bridge? 9 use a mortar spotter? 10 use ESB? 11 use armored assault? 12 scrounge a wreck? 13 assist another AFV with Bog removal? 14 let an abandoning crew destroy their vehicle? 15 let them malfunction some of its weapons? 16 use platoon movement with radio-equipped AFVs? 17 have an MMC assist with Bog removal of a Jeep or such? 18 force prisoners to do so? 19 shoot WP into a cave? 20 reveal other caves that way? 21 use a bangalore torpedo? 22 do so in your own Location? 23 remove dead men from their AFV? 24 capture an AFV with two SMC? 25 do this with two heroes? 26 set a DC during a scenario? 27 fire through the marketplace? 28 climb a cliff? 29 scale a building? 30 climb a high seawall? 31 exchange M2 mortars for OBA? 32 assemble a 5/8" MTR on top of a roof? 33 remove wire with aerial bombs? 34 use OBA to fire IR? 35 fire a AAMG with a heroic rider? 36 gallop with a wagon or sledge? 37 jettison bombs? 38 make a reverse minimum move? 39 commit Hara-Kiri? 40 ride a bicycle onto a rice paddy bank? 41 lead a horse onto it? 42 place a fascine? 43 drive across one? 44 need a broken ice counter? 45 bypass a dense-jungle hex? 46 breach a bank hexside? 47 swim? 48 place a bridge? 49 drive across it? 50 drive across an enemy-placed one? 0-4 points: What are you doing here? Go buy Paratrooper and read chapter K. 5-9 points: You should be reading the rules instead of this silly test. 10-19 points: You seem to be getting the hang of this game, but you too often do the obvious thing. Be creative. 20-29 points: You certainly know how to use the rules to your best advantage. Play some more scenarios for even better practice. 30-39 points: Have you ever considered making a series replay of one of your games? They must be great fun to watch. 40-49 points: They should introduce a heroic 10-3 counter and put your name on it. 50 points: Yeah, sure. And all those snake eyes in your pbem games are real, too. ----- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 94 08:04:06 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: quiz question re: the quiz, 45 bypass a dense-jungle hex? I thought you couldn't bypass dense jungle? What gives? Matt "clueless or annoying - you decide" Shostak ----- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 15:25:09 +0200 From: bas@phys.uva.nl (Bas de Bakker) Subject: Re: quiz question mbs writes: > re: the quiz, > 45 bypass a dense-jungle hex? > I thought you couldn't bypass dense jungle? What gives? You can if the hexside is water and you're using an amphibious vehicle. Bas. ----- Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 09:32:09 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: ASL Test Bas, Now, this is unfair. My score was a whopping SIX, but it's just because I'm from the Old School pand lay a "classic" style of game, with emphasis on orderly procedures and a general streamlined cleanliness on the battlefield. Now, your bourgeois MTV Generation folks will score higher on this test, but they tend to emphasize STYLE over SUBSTANCE. Some of us prefer to play on a higher plane, that's all. Tom "Et tu, dude?" ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: ASL Test Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 18:08:08 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > Now, this is unfair. My score was a whopping SIX, but it's just because I'm > from the Old School pand lay a "classic" style of game, with emphasis on > orderly procedures and a general streamlined cleanliness on the battlefield. > Now, your bourgeois MTV Generation folks will score higher on this test, but > they tend to emphasize STYLE over SUBSTANCE. Well, I got something like 15. Not that I care, but I agree that most of the listed things are simply not a good idea under most circumstances. Seriously, is there even a scenario that features dense jungle, a pond and some amphibious vehicle? :-) Now, the list *will* serve as inspiration for future games - so watch out! Why not jump off the cliff into the water in order to gain another point on the ASL test? (Uh, didn't you forget that - *diving* into the water from a cliff. It is allowed, isn't it?) [For the humour impaired - liberally insert smilies where I forgot to put any!] -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- From: Bob Lyman Subject: Re: Higher Plains Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 12:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Tom, If there is a god does he play ASL -bob "If I only had a clue, cause I know I got a brain!" lyman blyman@mailstorm.dot.gov ----- Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 11:08:59 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Higher Plains Bob (Straight Man) Lyman serves up a fat one: > > If there is a god does he play ASL? > Oh yes, He certainly does. And He even knows whether Mounted Fire from a Motion vehicle at a Moving target is halved, quartered, eighth'd, or whatever. He doesn't NEED to make LOS checks, He just KNOWS. Being perfect, his DR's will always follow a bell curve, which Beelzebub uses to his advantage late in the game when he knows that God is due to roll a few boxcars. When we all die, St. Peter will present each of us with the fully-complete, totally-consistent, no-more-errata-needed, all-questions-answered ASLRB. Problem is, those of us who have been bad here on Earth will take the downward plunge to the netherworld, where the only scenario available is Soldiers of Destruction, and the Germans get the balance. Tom "Shhh, the Lutherans are behind that wall. They think they're the only ones up here." ----- Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 15:10:16 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) The ASL extra credit question: Give yourself one demerit for each question answered with "yes". Did you ever . . . 1. Lose more than one leader to a single sniper check? 2. Watch your prisoner guards break from a sniper check? 3. Have your prisoners attack your guards broken from the sniper check? 4. Have a group of well-armed former prisoners come up behind your troops, to now defend the side of the bridge you originally crossed from that direction? 5. Have every tank on your force capable of reckoning with your opponent have its MA jam in the first two turns? 6. Have all your leaders destroyed in a close assault on a tank? 7. Find out that you have been playing with fewer squads of engineers than the scenario card tells you to? 8. End a scenario that historically was about scavenging SW with every SW on both sides MF? 9. Have a game when the only time you roll snake-eyes is with your Japanese on morale checks (Berserk Banzai!)? 10. Lose more than two AFV in one turn to a small-caliber cannon with a perpetual ROF? 11. Set up your foxholes in terrain that already gives you an equivalent DRM? 12. Forget where your HIP unit is until after your opponent routes right by? 13. Find an obscure rule three-quarters through the game that would have changed EVERYTHING? 14. Taken your bicycle counters, and thrown them into a rice paddy? 15. Have all your flame-throwers run out of gas on their first shot in "The Commissar's House"? 16. Find a weather die roll to make a difference? 17. Read the section on Gun Duels more than once without realizing that you've just read this? 18. Seen Berserk Russians leap tall LOS Obstacle Terrain in a single bound? 19. Found a use for the rule about walls on the edge of a hillside? 20. Wonder why there's a difference between a gully and a wadi? 21. Wonder why there isn't a difference between deserts, beaches, and the Russian steppes? 22. Wonder how many trees died to produce all of Chapter H? 23. Wonder why the Hand to Hand rules are in Chapter J? 24. Get surprised when a LOS gives your opponent a -2 FFNAM/FFMO against the 10-3 leader named after you? 25. Wonder why exactly there's a time limit of eight turns on a scenario that historically took three days? 26. Wonder why every European supplement comes with a German sniper counter, even though the back of the box says "Ownership of Beyond Valor is required"? 27. Keep your old Squad Leader counters, just in case? 28. Regret chucking out your old Squad Leader counters? 29. Wonder why the index says "Fire Group: see FG"? 30. Spend a few minutes trying to remember the technical name of when more than one squad in ADJACENT locations wants to fire at the same target? 31. Wonder why the index says "Rate of Fire: see ROF" and then "ROF (Rate of Fire; see Multiple ROF)"? 32. Wonder, if Sz stands for "Schuerzen, how sN stands for "Nahverteidigungswaffe"? 33. Wonder why Radioless vehicles are a registered trademark? 34. Wonder why it would take a leader to deploy a squad on horseback? 35. Disagree with your opponent on which of the colored dice comes first in a roll of more than two dice? 36. Realize that we are anxiously awaiting the release of Allied Minor vehicles (Oooh, Danish trucks!) 37. Thought that woods would provide cover from an American 60mm mortar? 38. Wonder if it's true that in all of Europe, only Stalingrad has cellars underneath houses? That only Stalingrad has one-hex two-level buildings? 39. Confuse sunken roads with elevated roads? 40. Try to imagine why vehicles don't point down the roads they're driving on? 41. Look up a rule definition in Chapter K because you can't find it in Chapter A? 42. Watch your opponent roll low on a Battle Hardening roll, and realize that you'd have been in much better shape had you never fired at him? 43. Drop your methodically sorted counters from a height greater than three feet? 44. Agree to bring ASL over to a friend's house, and then realize that you use half your basement just to store the mapboards? 45. Put all the mapboards together to try to make the shortest length roads possible? 46. Spend more than five minutes looking for a bookkeeping counter that you know you've seen? 47. Found a good use for Chapter N? 48. Notice that the KGP I supplement cost considerably more than Red Barricades, and it still had to be published in two parts? 49. Wonder if you could DYO a "Kelly's Heroes" scenario? 50. Mortgage a loved one to by Part II of an alternate terrain supplement? - 0 points: Oh, sure. Bet you play solitare. - 1 to - 9 points: Be honest. Share your feelings. We're here to help. -10 to -20 points: Bet you have stories of your own to tell. -21 to -30 points: Probably prefer other games, maybe even ones without tanks. -31 to -50 points: Let's drink an e-beer together and commiserate. ----- From: nexus@isis.cgd.ucar.EDU (Jeff Berry) Subject: Re: your mail Date: Thu, 2 Jun 94 15:13:55 MDT >49. Wonder if you could DYO a "Kelly's Heroes" scenario? Do I get extra demerits for actually having done this? JB nexus@ncar.ucar.edu ----- Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 19:49:07 EDT From: Michael Black Subject: Need fix in Detroit Hi everybody, I will be in Detroit on Sunday all day. If anyone has need of an opponent drop me an e-mail, ASAP. I can call back to make final arrangements as necessary. Thanks. Michael J. Black Department of Plant Pathology University of Georgia Experiment, Georgia 30212 (404) 228-7202 ----- From: joq@austin.ibm.com (Jack O'Quin) Subject: Re: Campaigns Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 14:22:54 -0600 Jeff Shields posted an interesting breakdown of all the "official" ASL scenarios by campaign. Among other things, he remarked: > IMO, some "neglected" actions are sieges (e.g. Tobruk, Sevastopol, > Leningrad), offensives (e.g. Okinawa, Saipan), and large-scale > operations (e.g. the Allied landings in southern France, the German > thrust into the Caucuses, or the Japanese invasion of Malaysia). > Also "missing" are scenarios depicting the Japanese in mainland > China. I agree with your point, Jeff, but I noticed two scenarios from the General that you may have missed: G12 Avalanche! (27.1) Caucasus K The Cannes Strongpoint (25.2) Southern France Jack O'Quin ----- From: joq@austin.ibm.com (Jack O'Quin) Subject: Re: Bring on the Night Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 14:32:51 -0600 Let me add my praise to the chorus of appreciation coming from all over the globe. JR has really established his 10-3 credentials for ASL Knowledge with this outstanding effort. Before reading his article, I had almost given up trying to decypher the night rules. Now all is "clear as day". ;-) Jack O'Quin ----- From: joq@austin.ibm.com (Jack O'Quin) Subject: Re: June 1994 Internet Ladder Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 14:09:31 -0600 > Tom Reppeti writes: > No award phase this month. I'm waiting for somebody to do something > noteworthy :-) Seems to me that der Laddermeister's own ascent to position #3 is something noteworthy. Is he trying to sneak up on us, or what? Jack O'Quin ----- Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 14:07:11 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: June 1994 Internet Ladder Jack writes: > > Seems to me that der Laddermeister's own ascent to position #3 is > something noteworthy. Is he trying to sneak up on us, or what? > This is a big reason why I don't make judgements about people's ability based on Ladder rankings, because mine is so grossly overinflated. Ask anybody who's played me, and I'm sure they'll say that Repetti's skill is about 1000, his DICE are about 1200. Carl is rapidly mauling me in The Fugitives anyway, so the universe will be set right in a few weeks. Meanwhile, Adrian has won yet another game, and is starting to flirt with the as-yet-unheard-of 1300 point mark. *gasp* Tom "And all this science I don't understand. It's just my job, 5 days a week" ----- Date: 3 Jun 1994 16:55:26 -0500 From: "William Cirillo" Subject: PTO Newbie Questions Subject: Time:3:59 PM OFFICE MEMO PTO Newbie Questions Date:6/3/94 Hi, I was thinking of starting a game of Cibik's Ridge (after reviewing the PTO rules of course) and and since I'm totally new to playing PTO/Japanes I was interested in any set-up suggestions, general strategies and/or playing styles for the PTO/Japanese. Any help would be very greatly appreciated. Bill w.m.cirillo@larc.nasa.gov ----- From: r.mosher2@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 4 Jun 94 16:02:00 UTC Subject: Re: Bring on the Night Gang, Us impoverished dudes on the GEnie net can't download the JR nite thingee. All we can get are the letters posted in clear. Could some compassionate soul out there e-mail me the nite article. i'll zip it and post on the GEnie library. thanx in adwance, ron aka r.mosher2@genie.geis.com ----- Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 18:31:53 -0600 From: djgour@acs.ucalgary.ca Subject: KGP Bog Checks Not much mail coming through the pipes this last week...what's up with that, is everyone enjoying the summer heat ?? Anyways, my question, do the numerous Bog Checks that one must make when running over barbed wire fences in KGP count as possible sniper activators?? Are they task checks, or otherwise, is the question I guess. Thanks for some advice... Also, anyone who has played the Germans and would like to drop me a line regarding what I can possibly accomplish on the first day, I would appreciate it. I just don't really know what to send into the forest, and what to send into the south end of Stoumont. Thanks again!! Darren Gour ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Sun, 5 Jun 94 04:05:00 UTC Subject: ladder game The two laddermeisters (Tom Repetti and myself - from the GEnie ladder) are finally playing. We are playing Akritori Peninsula, and Tom who had choice of scenario and side, chose the Germans. actually he rolled to see who got what. Should be fun. Phil ----- Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 08:16:05 -0400 (EDT) From: John Goble Subject: Zon With The Wind Sorry for waisting everyone's time, but Tallahassee Freenet crashed at 8:00am on Wednesday and I was corresponding with someone for a game of Zon. My mail que was dumped and I have received no mail since that time. Also, my address book was trashed. So, if you are still up for a game, please e-mail me and we will get started. Thanks, and sorry again for waisting the other peoples time. John ----- Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 09:51 EDT From: Dan Sullivan Subject: Question about Commando Raid At Dieppe Hey Guys, I got a question about "Commando Raid at Dieppe". I played this scenario the first time a couple of nights ago. My opponant and really botched some of the rules and decided to play this one again. Now, I was readig throug Jim Stahlers article that accompanies the scenario, "Roasting Chestnuts" in the 28-6 General. He gives some tactics for the germans, "One important move on turn 1 is ot block the enemy reinforcments from blocking your own. The squad and leader that start in 5R1 should move to the woods....". The problem is that the given OB has no squad and leader starting in 5R1 there is one listed for 4R1. Does anyone know if this is a mistake on te scenario card? Dan djsullivan ----- From: Jens Hoppe (ogm - 8/94) Subject: Night article Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 16:13:12 METDST Hi! Does anyone have a text-file version of the 'Bring on the Night' article, or is one available anywhere? thanks, proj15@imsor.dth.dk Jens "Hopsie" Hoppe ----- Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 08:37:05 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: ladder game > >The two laddermeisters (Tom Repetti and myself - from the GEnie ladder) are >finally playing. We are playing Akritori Peninsula, and Tom who had choice >of scenario and side, chose the Germans. > Phil's first salvo in the Pre-Game Guilt Phase misses, wide right. Phil had plenty of opportunity for input on the scenario and sides, make no mistake. :-) Since I'm upholding the glory and honor of the entire Internet Ladder, I'd think that you people wouldn't mind donating a point or two should the unthinkable happen and Phil win. Since you're all such fine upstanding citizens, I'll assume that you all are volunteering for this, and act accordingly should the need arise. Tom "I LIKE the Navy. Whenever we want to go somewhere and fight, the Navy takes us there." - Kiefer Sutherland as the Marine platoon leader in _A Few Good Men_ ----- From: joq@austin.ibm.com (Jack O'Quin) Subject: Re: ladder game Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 10:44:13 -0600 > Phil Pomerantz wrote: > The two laddermeisters (Tom Repetti and myself - from the GEnie ladder) are > finally playing. We are playing Akritori Peninsula, and Tom who had choice > of scenario and side, chose the Germans. actually he rolled to see who got > what. Sounds like y'all need to start a "ladder ladder" (ladder squared?) for recording the results of these inter-ladder games. They could then be used to compute weighting factors for bragging rights when comparing respective ladder points. Just a thought... :-\ Jack O'Quin ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 11:46:21 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Ladder Manipulation Der Laddermeister bespake: >The two laddermeisters (Tom Repetti and myself - from the GEnie ladder) are >finally playing. We are playing Akritori Peninsula, and Tom who had choice >of scenario and side, chose the Germans. Ah, yes, what a shark. From the years of repeated play of that one, the conventional wisdom... >Phil's first salvo in the Pre-Game Guilt Phase misses, wide right. Phil had >plenty of opportunity for input on the scenario and sides, make no mistake. >:-) >Since I'm upholding the glory and honor of the entire Internet Ladder, I'd >think that you people wouldn't mind donating a point or two should the >unthinkable happen and Phil win. Since you're all such fine upstanding >citizens, I'll assume that you all are volunteering for this, and act >accordingly should the need arise. Tom, I can't speak for anybody else, but you can go ahead and borrow a few hundred points from me. That way, when Carl beats me in "Chance Dune Affaire and a missed accent mark somewhere," I lose fewer. I charge low interest rates, BTW. And no points. Should anybody else want to buy some ladder points, you know where to find me. We can even get formal about it and play "Soldiers of Destruction" and "The Bushmasters" back to back. A buck a point, and I'll take the hapless Axis in both. Dave "Philanthropy is not my middle name" Ripton ----- Date: Mon, 06 Jun 94 10:14:23 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: ladder game Jack writes: > Sounds like y'all need to start a "ladder ladder" (ladder squared?) > for recording the results of these inter-ladder games. They could > then be used to compute weighting factors for bragging rights when > comparing respective ladder points. > Waaal, lessee. Going over how the GEnie people have done on the internet ladder, it comes out to a record of 25-18 (0.581). Not too shabby. The GEnie contingent is led by the redoubtable Warren Smith at 8-1, and (gulp) Phil P himself at 7-4. Tom "Motherrrr!" ----- Date: Mon, 06 Jun 1994 10:48:58 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: CASL AAR CASL After Action Report ======================== Yet another new face at last meeting, Cary Belger joins our fold. I think I heard Cary say he's an ex-tanker, so any club members who think they're ace tread-heads might be in for a rude surprise. While attendance was low, fun was high, and we're still growing, so I feel good about the club's future. Only two games to report, but they were both interesting. Newbie Rich Buhr insisted on a Japanese scenario (as he will be working as a tour guide to thousands of Japanese this summer in Banff), and so he and John Burns squared off in TOTSUGEKI! This was a first go at PTO for both of them, so there were a lot of rules questions, but a very close game that came down to the final advance phase. John had had no luck with his INF guns, malfing one even, and so Rich was able to sneak his first ladder win. I think this is a pretty even scenario, but for players who are new to the PTO, it may favour the Japanese. I know the first time defending against the Japs, you are a bit overwhelmed by the fact that they don't break. And in this scenario, you are not only faced with the Japanese, but you are defending with the Chinese, not the sturdiest of troops. The other game was an ASLUG scenario, Morgan's STAND, with my Yanks defending against ladder-champ Darren Gour's German's. I can't say much about this scenario. It looks good and I'd like to try it again. I won't say I was diced, as Darren ground me into the dirt, but I did have a little bad luck. The US player has two AFVs, both of which suffer from Ammo Shortage. My first shot with one of them toasted a half track, but its next shot disabled the MA. The second AFV malfed its MA on its first shot. That left the German armour, including the formidable Brumbar, enough room to maneuver at will. Hasta la vista, Grant. I wonder how many players this week will tackle D-Day or Normandy scenarios. For novices there are all the Paratrooper scenarios, but for those with a little more experience, there is the DEJA VU scenario by Brent Pollock that I distributed last week. This is a Canadian D-Day action, so it would be perfect for our group. But who's up for the challenge of the Seaborne Assault rules? Next meeting is Sunday, June 12, then Sunday, June 26. -Grant. ... Do ministers do more than lay people? -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 13:58:18 -0600 From: djgour@acs.ucalgary.ca Subject: KGP Dec. 19 AM Well after the amount of mail that my last post spawned and the number of requests for me to write my experiences I shall endeavor to write a little after action report of 19 AM with the hope that some of you out there might decide to banter over the plus' and minus' of such a strategy. Of course I would hope you let me know from your own experiences where I have strayed from the true course!! Well after my American opponent (yes, I got the Germans, though I wanted to be the Americans) spent about four or five hours in setting up his defence, being as befuddled as I was as to what to defend (attack for me), I finally got to begin placing my men on the map. I had a real headache for some reason on Saturday, something I usually don't get, and since this was our first experience with KGP, he owns it but didn't want to play any scenarios to get a hang of this new experience, I wasn't quite sure what I should do. Owing to my headache I just divided my force into 2 main sections plus the three companys coming in from the south. I purchased the max. infantry of each type and some Flamm tracks. Entering from the south were the engineers with my only -2 leader, this was Kampfgruppe Meunch (10-2). Kamp. Kubler (9-1) was setup on the southwest area of my setup area and was tasked with joining with Kamp. Meunch for support and rolling through the town. Kamp. Kubach was setup on the northern tip of the setup area and was tasked with clearing the forest road and the small setup area that the Americans have on the hill and then splitting, one major group to the Sanatorium, one through the woods to the American entry areas. We were only able to complete three turns, but here's how it went: Meunch and his engineers used the hill and mist to run unnoticed towards the many building village where their demo charges and flamethrower would find optimum conditions for use. One para platoon ran up the little hill towards the south tip of town and began searching for nasties while an SS Inf Pltn followed behind a little more cautiously... Kamp. Kubler who was to join with this force had three of my panthers (out of 8)four of my Pz IVs, three pltns of SS Gren, two Para, Flamm tracks, and the majority of the two HW platoons (only the 75* SPW was missing has he was tasked to lead some other hts through the woods to the American entry areas). Taking advantage of the mist these guys just rolled up to the American positions. The first unloaded halftrack went right down the road checking nearly the entire orchard lined road for nasties, none found. Next a panther , the flamers, and three platoons of SS came rolling up the road and unloaded. Two Panthers and two IVs drove through many a farmers field, destroying there fences(!), and moved to get on the west side of town. The other two IVs and Paras supported the main force now assualting the tip of town, the paras tasked the next turn with running through the American positions to find bazookas, guns, and units that wanted to lost there concealment. Kamp. Kubach was also lead my a reconaissance ht which made it all the way to the top of the hill and the forested road junction before running over a few americans with a bazooka and being set alight. Immediately thereafter two platoons of SS were sent up the hill to surround and destroy this pesky menace!! One bazooka later in CC my force grabbed some extra anti-armor punch, which can be very demorilizing to the enemy when his own weapons are used to kill him! Next came the rest of the Panthers (5), some Pz IVs (3) and more halftracks which fanned out on the top hill in positions where they mostly were hidden from American eyes. The Panthers faced the town the rest the woods. The American made a real mistake here, not defending this hill more thouroughly. I now had access to the forest roads leading to the American entry areas and a choice between going to the Sanatorium or to the rear of Roua. Very nice... The next two turns I was able to develop on my original goals -- Meunch and his engineers got into the village and dispatched two american squads, taking a firm hold on the area in the process. Two panthers and Two IVs got to the West side of town and began to roll up this flank towards the Sanitorium. The flamm tracks started flamming everybody in sight, manouevering to use both flamethrowers each turn. The Panther and IVs gave fire support while the Grenadiers moved through town. The many hts in this area retired a little to the West side of town to get out of the way of the main fire group: the HW platoon (2 Hvy, 2 MMG) stacked in the same hex as the HMG ht from the motorized HW platoon. With the mist down a little this gave me some nice 31 +? shots at stuff trying to hang around. Kamp. Kubler on the hill was split into two, the Panzers and most of the SS Inf heading into the rear of Roua to cut off those Americans trying to get out of the south side, and some hts, para inf, and other assorted stuff down the forest road to the stream and American entry areas where I had interspersed some Objective hexes. At this point the battle is going all my way. Is this usual ? All three of my attacks have gone off without a hitch. I must say, my opponent is just getting the hang of the tactical respects of the game, and really doesn't have much going in the way of overall strategy. But then I don't really blame him, neither of us knew what to expect, what could, and what should happen in this first scenario (maybe we should have tried the scenarios??). I'll now give some justifications for my plans: I did not run those entering from the south strait to the sanitorium as many say should be done simply because many Americans were holed up in the village and I wanted to KILL them. I figured after my engineers got a lodgement in the village they would be able to advance towards the sanitoruim, possibly killing some Amis on the way. I made the linkup with the southern forces with armor on the west side of town because I thought the Ami wouldn't suspect this approach and thus would not have setup many AT guns facing this way, making it a little more survivable for my Tanks. I attacked the southern tip for the same reasons, to kill Amis. My other force, Kamp. Kubler went up the hill to get that road junction and open up two more fronts for the American. I wanted to extend my perimeter to the Ami setup areas in the north, and offer a big flanking manouver into the town to cut off Americans retreating from the south and a direct approach towards the Sanitorium. Many people have advocated a direct assault on Roua over all those hills. I for one did not want to do that, suspecting, as happened, that the mist might lift and thus leave a substantial part of my force out in the open. I was also quite concerned with the facings of my vechiles, thus the attack in the south and the one from the East. I figured I could have the front facing of my armor always pointed at my objective, and thus semi-impervious. This is something which cannot be done when heading to Roua, too many possibilities of flank and rear shots. Should I not be worrying about this with my seemingly overwhelming initial force?? I can't decide. Once you get you armor to the west and south, you are able to make you front facings due north, and with the initial setup area this really precludes any side shots. Same with the Hill attack, once clearing the three hex perimeter around the building up there, there can be nothing to shoot you guys in the ass, and the woods guard you other flank. The one drawback with this approach is it gives the american time to set up a defence when you come off the hill. This can also be looked at as advantageous though. Get a bunch of Amis standing still and you can roll the panthers and your better infantry up and pulverize him. The American under no circumstance should stand and fight in this one I figure. Am I missing something here too ?? To conclude this rather wordy rambling, if anyone out there sees some glaring flaws in this plan, or would just like to offer suggestions or advice I would be most happy to correspond. This is indeed the best thing since Red Barricades. Though I really not sure which one I like better, I know I'm a better RB player, I would like to learn the intricacies of this one. How long does it generally take to play KGP out in total ?? Is this the biggest of the scenarios ?? What can one expect in the following days ?? Should I have been more aggressive and went strait for the sanitorium, damned the losses ?? These plus many more are the questions which still nag my brain. chow, Darren Gour ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 14:22:40 -0600 From: djgour@acs.ucalgary.ca Subject: KGP play-by-mail Since I have seen this talked about before, Is there anyone daring, or silly, enough to want to play KGP by mail ?? I would want the Americans ( just since I can't get anyone round here to play the Germans at the moment ) and I could promise relatively long gaps between mailings due to size and all. Just thought I'd check... Darren Gour ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 15:23:50 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: Florida/Alabama Trip I'll be in Melborne, Florida working until the 24th of June and have to be in Huntsville, Alabama on the 28th. That leaves me the 25th, 26th, and 27th with nothing in particular to do :-) Anybody near either of these two locations that'd be interesting in some FTF. Thanks, Don Hancock ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 20:09:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: ladder game In message Mon, 06 Jun 94 08:37:05, tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) writes: >> The two laddermeisters (Tom Repetti and myself - from the GEnie >> ladder) are finally playing. > > Since I'm upholding the glory and honor of the entire Internet Ladder, Ok, is anyone else worried about this?!? ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 20:12:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Ladder Manipulation In message Mon, 6 Jun 94 11:46:21 EDT, ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) writes: > Tom, I can't speak for anybody else, but you can go ahead and borrow a > few hundred points from me. That way, when Carl beats me in "Chance > Dune Affaire and a missed accent mark somewhere," I lose fewer. Cheap shot after I had to work for a Critical Hit and yours came without question. Hell, the way the dice are working out, it's still anyone's game. 'Course it doesn't help that every time a Frenchie has to take a morale check he boxcars. ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 23:12:10 -0600 From: djgour@acs.ucalgary.ca Subject: Hidden Gun Question Well here is something that has come up a fair bit recently, in an article I am reading and at the second last CASL meeting: Can a HIP gun retain its hidden status after firing in any situation ?? For myself I would say absolutely no, A 12.34 is fairly explicit about this, "However, a hidden Gun may not remain hidden after it fires; it is either revealed or placed beneath a '?'..." The reason I have any question about this, unless there is an exception that I am missing, is that this situation appears in the Annual '93b in the article by Nixon and Banzoic. Here Banzoic goes into much detail about his rationale for using spotted fire, at one point even saying "...to improve the TH chancesf my other mortar, which will remain HIP using Spotted Fire." At one point Nixon remarks how he used the same tactic in a game years ago. Are these two 10-3s (9-2s in the picture) out to lunch, or has this lowly 9-1 missed something easily spotted ?? I can't see how these guys could make such an error, but at the same time the above quote from A 12.34 seems pretty concrete. Tell me what I am missing!! Darren Gour ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 01:20:32 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Re: Ladder Manipulation >> Tom, I can't speak for anybody else, but you can go ahead and borrow a >> few hundred points from me. That way, when Carl beats me in "Chance >> Dune Affaire and a missed accent mark somewhere," I lose fewer. Carl somehow squeezed out without laughing: >Cheap shot after I had to work for a Critical Hit and yours came without >question. Hell, the way the dice are working out, it's still anyone's game. >'Course it doesn't help that every time a Frenchie has to take a morale >check he boxcars. Chutzpah: n. The ability to consistently outroll^H^H^H^Hplay your opponent to the point where his entire starting force is eliminated while losing absolutely nothing yourself, then complain about the dice when two squads are reduced to disrupted halfsquad rabble and one tank is critically hit, in the same turn you've totally crushed your enemy's reinforcements by rolling a 3 on a 2-even shot _and_ smashed his main base with an infantry CH on a stone building. (Everybody go read those infantry CH rules one more time. We screwed them up. Twice. And Carl's rumored to be an ex-leader of the ladder.) D'oh! I guess this should be on the Berserker list. Oh, well: slow ASL week. Dave "On the net, nobody can hear your dice go 'Pop!'" Ripton ----- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 19:54:11 -1000 From: pjonke@mano.soest.hawaii.edu (Patrick Jonke) Subject: Re: Hidden Gun Question >Can a HIP gun retain its hidden status after firing in any situation ?? > >The reason I have any question about this, unless there is an exception that I > >am missing, is that this situation appears in the Annual '93b in the article > >by Nixon and Banzoic. Here Banzoic goes into much detail about his rationale > for using spotted fire, at one point even saying "...to improve the TH >chancesf my other mortar, which will remain HIP using Spotted Fire." >Tell me what I am missing!! You are probably missing the A29 '92 Errata page, which altered A12.34 slightly, so that it includes the following EXC: ...An Emplaced hidden/concealed Gun that fires is revealed if the colored dr.. etc.etc... hexes; otherwise that Gun is placed (or remains) beneath a "?" [EXC: if hidden it retains HIP if no Good Order enemy ground unit has a LOS to it when it fires at other than a FB/DB (E7.)...] +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Patrick Jonke School of Ocean and Earth Science & Technology Department of Marine Geology & Geophysics University of Hawaii at Manoa +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ----- From: Neal Smith Subject: Defensive Fire vs. same hex AFV Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 07:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Hi All, Can anyone tell me exactly where it says a unit can't fire out of a hex that contains an enemy AFV? The TPBF rule doesn't apply to this situation because the AFV is neither infantry/cavalry MMC or a PRC. Thanks, Neal Smith sasrns@unx.sas.com ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 13:40:47 +0200 From: bas@phys.uva.nl (Bas de Bakker) Subject: Re: Defensive Fire vs. same hex AFV Neal Smith writes: > Can anyone tell me exactly where it says a unit can't fire out of > a hex that contains an enemy AFV? It says so in the 92 annual debriefing: A7.212 If a Bypassing friendly AFV occupies a hex that contains an enemy unit at a higher level, do the firing restrictions of this rule apply to that enemy unit? Do they apply if a BU friendly AFV, regardless of whether or not it is in Bypass or is OT, occupies a Location that contains an enemy unit? A. Only if the AFV is CE/OT. Yes. {92} Bas. ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 19:48:52 EDT Subject: Re: ladder game On Mon, 6 Jun 1994 20:09:15 -0500 (, Carl D. Fago wrote: >In message Mon, 06 Jun 94 08:37:05, tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) writes: > >>> The two laddermeisters (Tom Repetti and myself - from the GEnie >>> ladder) are finally playing. >> >> Since I'm upholding the glory and honor of the entire Internet Ladder, > >Ok, is anyone else worried about this?!? I wouldn't say worried but surely interested in the outcome. There is after all reputation and principles to be upheld (and all that other bullshit, too :-). Not to mention duty and honor.... Go get 'em Tom (and throw out some potato_e_s to disrupt and break your opponent). Jeff ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 14:42:32 MET DST From: Karsten Droste Subject: vehicular MG and PBF - question May vehicular MGs fire PBF? The footnote on PBF says, FP is doubled cause of grenades and other close range weapons. This makes no sense for vehicular MGs. And I thought there is a rule somewhere saying "no PBF for vehicular MGs", but can't find it anymore. Karsten =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Karsten Droste droste@informatik.uni-kl.de Pariserstr. 23A . _____ 67655 Kaiserslautern . __/_____\======o Germany . (*####*####*) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 09:12:53 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) Hi all, Seen a couple of complaints about it being a slow week, so I thought I'd upload some software. WORD OF WARNING: This is for the Macintosh -- all you IBM clone masters can gnash your teeth in envy. My program is an ASL scenario generator, based upon the article "Going All Out" from many years ago. The notion of the article was this -- in DYO, the rules say the players need to agree on a board set-up, sides, victory conditions, etc. before doing troop purchace. This is a series of randomly generated steps to create a situation for you to fight over. My program does NOT do the DYO purchacing -- this is a dream for the future. It is written in HyperCard 2.0, and requires at least HyperCard 2.0 to run. I would appreciate feedback -- positive, negative, I invite it all. I am currently chewing at the task of doing the DYO purchacing, and would like feedback on the usability of this version of the program before proceeding with more point-and-click design. I also encourage the IBM people to look at it at a friend's house with a Mac, because you are the players, and your input is invaluable. The program is currently in ftp.lysator.liu.se in the asl/incoming directory under the name of ScenGen.MAC.bin. There is also a file called ScenarioGen.MAC.bin, which is trash from an abortive attempt to upload earlier. (If anyone can tell me how to request this trash be removed, I'd be grateful). The program is also posted in carlo.phys.uva.nl in the asl/incoming directory under the name of ScenarioGen.MAC.bin. Both files are stored using the MacBinaryII format. Enjoy, Tom Huntington ----- Subject: vehicular MG and PBF - qu From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 10:47:00 -0640 Howdy, Karsten Droste writes: >May vehicular MGs fire PBF? The footnote on PBF says, FP is >doubled cause of grenades and other close range weapons. >This makes no sense for vehicular MGs. And I thought there >is a rule somewhere saying "no PBF for vehicular MGs", but >can't find it anymore. It's not there: vehicles can use PBF. I am frequently the target of such fire so I know :-) Footnote 8 says there are several justifications for PBF, not just grenades. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 10:46:14 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: can mortars gain ROF firing SMOKE? Since mortars can only fire using AREA and they can retain ROF, they can retain ROF when firing SMOKE since there is nothing under SMOKE preventing it. Other ordinance is prevented from retaining ROF since they can never retain ROF when using AREA fire. Fred Timm > > I recently heard the claim that due to a "hole" in the rules, mortars > can retain ROF when firing SMOKE. Is this true? > > I don't see where it says they can't. It seems that the restriction > on ordinance gaining ROF when using SMOKE is due to the use of the > Area Target Type. But mortars, which always use the ATT, are > specifically excepted from this restriction. There is no specific > mention of mortars firing SMOKE that I could find. Maybe I just > missed something obvious. > > If true, this makes mortar SMOKE even more effective. With luck, one > could lay down a long curtain of SMOKE hexes from a single mortar. > > Jack O'Quin > ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 14:06:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: can mortars gain ROF firing SMOKE? On Tue, 7 Jun 1994, Jack O'Quin wrote: > But mortars, which always use the ATT, are > specifically excepted from this restriction. There is no specific > mention of mortars firing SMOKE that I could find. Kinda makes you wanna just run home and try this, huh? But it sounds too good to be true..... Paul ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 13:18:06 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: Austin ASL Team Tournament AAR After Action Report: The ASL Team Tournament, Austin, TX (June 3-5 1994) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The second annual ASL Team Tournament in Austin, Texas kicked off Friday night, as a lot of familiar faces and a few new ones as well grappled for supremacy of the region and bragging rights for the year. With Gary Fortenberry absent this year due to his imminent move to Maryland, the field was wide open. The teams present were the Home Front from Austin, the Blazing Wrecks from Waco/Georgetown/Austin, the Dallas Destoyers, the Coastal Conscripts from Houston, and the Partisans from Temple/Austin. When the dust finally cleared Sunday afternoon, the home team had recaptured the team title, while Bob Chandler of the Coastal Conscripts claimed top individual honors. All the players seemed to enjoy themselves very much, and the competition was friendly. The format of this tournament is an interesting one. Players form teams of three. Anyone who arrives without a team will be assigned one in a fair manner. The games that each player completes will count not only towards his individual record, but will also count for his team. Each win counts as +1, each loss as -1. The highest sum wins (true in the individual category as well). The only restrictions are that no player can contribute more than seven games (and no less than three) to his team's record (he can play more, but only the first seven count), that games between players on the same team do not count for the team record (but can count in the individual category), and that each team complete at least one game in each of several genres. The genres are: Eastern Europe, Western Europe, PTO, North Africa, Allied Minor/Axis Minor/Partisan, Italian/French/Chinese, and Night/Paradrop/Beach Assault. The effect of all this is very exciting, as a wide variety of types of scenarios are played, while individuals can concentrate on areas they like and/or are familiar with. Once again the prizes were outstanding. First place team members and the top individual finisher took home trophies, and the second place team members were each awarded an AH game of their choice. Many players commented that these were some of the best prizes they've seen at an ASL tournament. Mike Seningen is to be commended for a job well done. The Home Front (Mike Seningen, Jack O'Quin, Matt Shostak) is looking to take on all comers next year. We would like to see more players come on down, from the surrounding areas and beyond! ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 13:19:05 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: more ASL team tourney And now for my individual perspective on the ASL Team Tournament. I started Friday night about 7:00 against Tom Lavan of the Blazing Wrecks. We picked First Crisis at Army Group North, and I drew the Germans. I immediately took the initiative in the pregame taunt and pose phase by insulting Tom's counter storage system. My setup was strong on the open side of the board, weak on the side with the woods-road. I had my 9-2 armor leader in a PzIII in the wooden building, another PzIII in close support to his right behind the stone wall, and the third to his left protecting his flank. A squad and LMG were upstairs from the tank to help repulse any Russian infantry that got too brave. A halftrack was positioned behind the building, holding the 8-1 with DC and a squad. Two squads and the 9-1 with DC were in the woods on the far left near the woods-road. Tom saw the weak left and tried to scoot one of those nifty, fast BTs past, to interdict the 88 that was due to arrive. His infantry moved up as fast as possible in the woods, but could not keep up. Another BT moved behind a wall to set up a hull-down duel with the PzIII on my right flank. His T-26s moved in front of the BT in platoon. The right flank panzer gunner found some APCR, and the lead T-26 was in flames. Then the KVs moved in and it started looking scary. The 9-1, however, quickly moved over and placed his DC on the motion BT. Snake eyes on the position DR resulted in another wreck. The right flank hull down panzer lost his duel with a KV, and the left flank panzer moved in on the left, hoping to finish off the other T-26 in bounding fire. He missed and was then out on a limb. He survived defensive fire, however, to kill the T-26 later, only to have a KV lumber around and pull up adjacent on his side. In the meanwhile, the 9-2 ace in the building took his only two shots of the game. A KV lumbered by, and after a deliberate immobilization miss, an intensive fire APCR shot brewed the beast up. When the KV failed to knock out the panzer on the left and was subsequently immobilized, the game was over. This was a fun scenario, perhaps a little hard on the Russians. They can't afford to press too hard ahead of their infantry, it seems. Next I squared up with Todd Hively from Waco, also on the Burning Wrecks. He wanted to get in a PTO scenario, and I was agreeable, hoping that my recent jungle training with Jack O'Quin would pay off. We chose Totsugeki, Todd won the choice DR, and took the Chinese. As it turned out, at the same time Jack and Tom also were getting ready to play Totsugeki, and Jack had the Japanese as well. Todd's setup looked really strong on the sides and weaker in the middle. Therefore I thought the middle might be a trap, with his two HIP squads lurking nearby, perhaps also designated as dare-death squads. These could be quite dangerous, since they could potentially take out my best units in HTH. I decided to try to push through the middle anyway, and found it to be very lightly defended. I didn't run into any HIP, and made good progress. Two of the guns were mine quickly, and a lot of Chinese units got shot up trying to stop this advance. With by now a strong superiority of force the Japanese moved on the last gun, and the two HIP Chinese squads finally appeared. They were dare-death squads, and they got what they asked for when the 10-0 and 2x448 rolled snake eyes for TPBF in subsequent fire. Todd resigned. I thought this was a fun scenario, but Todd couldn't really recover from his setup. My next game was Commando Hunt, and I took the Japanese. My opponent went after my dummies, and I was content to wait him out. About the middle of the game I discovered that he had misread the VCs, and thought that I had to attack HIM, not the other way around. He resigned when he saw that I could just play hide-and-seek for the rest of the game and win. This was my most frustrating game. It wasn't any fun to win, but I sure as hell didn't want to start all over again. Yuck. My fourth game was against David Hailey from Georgetown, also a member of the Burning Wrecks. I knew from past experience (two games) that I was in for a very tough game. We chose The Professionals, and I took the Yugoslavs so David could go get some dinner. I was left to pull all the pieces and set up. Needless to say, David was in for some big pregame taunting when I couldn't find his fourth tank because he has all German vehicles in one bin. I set up the 9-2 with a squad and MMG in a pretty obvious spot on the second floor of the chateau. One of the ATGs was downstairs pointing at the bridge. The other ATG was way out on the left, looking back on the bridge entrance area, hoping to get a rear shot at something. A squad and LMG set up near the bridge, so they could run across immediately and start entrenching on the other side. Then they could threaten a firelane across the length of the bridge during the endgame. The setup turned out to be fairly good. David moved in aggressively, probing for my units (all of which were HIP by SSR). He didn't find any of the outlying squads, but my first molotov cocktail attack was inauspicious. The boxcars roll broke the squad and put a flame in his location. He was captured almost immediately. The far left ATG turned out to be just the ticket. The crew bided its time, even with a halftrack adjacent, hoping for a better target. Eventually the German 9-1 moved into the open, two hexes distant, in order to get close to a broken German squad. A great roll by the ATG wounded him, and the severity roll was a 6. Now the Germans were down to just one leader, the 8-0. They were assaulting the chateau aggressively, however, and the 9-2 was moving around in the upper floors, trying to avoid all the smoke and acquisition from the tanks. He lasted longer than I expected, and eventually he and the squad with him went berserk, charged downstairs, and eliminated a German squad on the ground floor. But now the MMG was no longer a threat, and David had guessed where my second ATG was. In the meantime, however, he had lost a halftrack to the far left ATG, which, after it had been bypassed, was pushed forward a bit to get a bead on the bridge entrance area. He also lost his other halftrack to a molotov attack. Another molotov cocktail set aflame one of his tanks that pulled up too close to the chateau. Molotovs work GREAT against tanks, especially from 2nd level. Of his three remaining tanks, the ATG eventually got one. The end game saw the Germans with but four squads and two tanks. They needed one squad and one tank on the other side of the bridge to win. He made a valiant effort, but eventually he was down to only one squad that had a chance to make it, and this one was successfully tied up in CC. Now 4-0, and with the pressure mounting, I launched into a game of The Fugitives against Russell Mueller, one of the Dallas Destroyers. And he lived up to the moniker by destroying me. I have been wanting to play this one again for a long time, and Tom Repetti even recently posted some of my thoughts one it. I took the Germans and attacked along the lines pointed out in that previous posting. I was making good progress, and my troops were intact and gathering at the bridge on turn 4. Things crumbled from there. I missed my smoke ammo roll, and when my 9-2 kill stack finally got a bead on somebody, an 11 broke both MMGs (ammo shortage). I was forced to cross with much less smoke cover than I wanted. And I never could seem to break many Russians, although neither one of us seemed to have the lion's share of the luck. There was plenty of smoke as soon as a couple of my AFVs were roasted, and I actually did get a bunch of troops across the bridge. But in the end I was forced to try to run guys through residual, and they did not hold up well. I managed to exit the PSW and a halftrack, and I probably could have gotten a few lucky squads off, but not nearly enough for the 33 points I needed. All this without the ATG being a factor! It was on the other side of the board and never made an impact. That was my last game for team points, since the deadline had passed. But I had to square off once more for individual honors against Bob Chandler. We played The Niscemi-Biscari Highway, and his Germans thumped the Americans hard. And the majority of the dice luck was on my side! Mostly it was a setup error on my part that dug a big hole I couldn't get out of. Bob expertly exploited the weakness. All in all, it was an incredibly fun weekend. The games were fun, the competition friendly, and the facilities were excellent. We also found two new players to join our regular Austin group, so it looks like we now have 10 active players in the area. I can't wait until next time. Matt ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: KGP CGI AAR Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 14:56:49 EDT Hi guys. This is my writeup of our (Chris Riker and Mark Gillihan teamed up as the Nazi slime against my valiant Americans) KGP CGI through 3.5 turns of the first CG date. I was originally going to send it only to the people who had originally shown interest, but it seems like there is some general interest so I figured I'd post it. disclaimer: my memory is horrible (too many aluminium pans as a kid). This should convey the general details; Chris and Mark are invited to correct me on the specifics. First, 3.5 turns took about 10 hours to play, which by my reckoning is considerably longer than even RB turns (Bill Jelinek and I used to finish a RB CG day in a very long evening; maybe 10 hours, although the final turn or two were sometime negotiated :). There are several mitigating factors in the first scenario, what with all that *)(&!@$# mist and a very large German OB, which causes as many trafic problems as anything else - also, I think all three of us are somewhat conservative players. It is my impression that later scenarios will take less time to play due to smaller OB's and less mist. (The Amis may get 70CPP, but that's only 10 tanks, and only if I buy *nothing* else). Mark and Chris were very good about not getting into discussing minor tactical points, which some of my multi-player opponents have done (which .... drags .... things ........ out). Still, the first scenario was a bigger mess than I've seen anywhere, except *maybe* Bloody Red Beach (which wins points for density). As of turn 4, the US is doing OK. Things may well collapse soon, but hey. Right now, life is good. There are three "natural" avenues of advance for the Germans - around the south flank into Stoumont in conjunction with any platoons from offboard, straight in Roua, and north up the hill and into the woods, and thence west into Stoumont and the Sanitorium. Turn 1: The Germans set up with a few tanks and two or three platoons driving on the southern front, a fairly major offensive into Roua, and a massive offensive from hell rolling up against the two American platoons holding the north. The American 10-3 in Roua grins evilly as he readies his strongpoint in Roua, the teeth of the American defences. The soutern boys are pretty strong too, led by a 9-2, and backed by 80mm arty. The northern flank is getting a little worried. The 8-1, fresh out of OCS and in charge of all of two platoons of line squads, looks through the binoculars ... "Lesse, two, three, four panthers ... no wait, there's a couple more ... call it 6 or so panthers. Couple of Mark IV's out there too. No problem. We got any bazookas up here? Guys? Guys?". Nobody comes in rational firing range yet, though, with the mist. Bottom of turn 1, the Americans sit tight and get in touch with the OBA. Turn 2: The Germans slam into the American lines on all three fronts. Surprisingly, the lines hold more or less intact, although in the north it's only a matter of time, as overwhelming firpower comes to bear. We did immobilize a halftrack, though. Still no notable casualties on either side, probably due to the mist. Turn 2.5: Lo! The mist lifts! It's now *only* +1 for every 2 hexes. The 10-3 opens up, still no casualties inflicted, and moments later is nailed by a sniper - but it's just a flesh wound (damn). The 60mm OBA falls in the center, clouding all of the PzIV's and V's in there in a shroud of white phosphorous - leaving a couple of halftracks and some infantry out on the flank a little exposed. One of the M8 AC's back in Stoumont fires up the engine, drives over a friendly AT minefield (oops), surives, and wheels in to bear down on the exposed german flank. A few cannister rounds later and we see a couple fewer germans. The mist is still Heavy for the german final fire and we see the first serious US casualties, as the platoon holding the line between Roua and the forest gets badly broken, and the northern platoons start to break. Still no armor casualties, though (except a couple of halftracks). A PzV tries to overrun a HS with a BAZ, and the BAZ gets a rear shot and a shock, although the PzV does eventually recover (the HS is not so lucky). Turn 3: The mist goes back to x-heavy. The M8 AC is still alive, and pumps a couple more rounds of cannister into some infantry, and burns a halftrack. In the south the advance is badly mauled by some very accurate OBA - there is very little cover down there, and the green platoon is still defending their foxholes in front of the buildings, while the 9-2 is preventing any flanking movements. We have our first panther kill, although it may have been an error. A 76L got a side shot on a Panther which may have been the result of the counter being accidentally rotated. The 76L crew really does yoeman's service, blasting a couple of squads trying to charge it through the mist, and surviving several very large (24 and 30) FP attacks. It's the beginning of the end in the North, as all the troops on the line break except for one very manly squad entrenched behind barbed wire right in the way. They burn a loaded halftrack before they finally surrender due to being surrounded by 4 Panthers, a Mark IV, and miscellaneous infantry. The wounded 10-3 sees some spotting rounds landing awfully close to his building. At best it's "only" 120mm. In the bottom of the turn, the Americans start to pull out. In the south, the line is still holding just fine, but in Roua the artillery seals the 10-3's decision to get the hell out, and abandon the front line in favor of a fighting withdrawl. In the north, the surviving platoon (out of 3) pulls back into the woods, unfortunately leaving the door to the Sanitorium wide open - except for HIP guns. In the top half of turn 4 (the last we played), Chris' Panthers (Chris ran the largest northern assault; Mark drew the lot of attacking the much stronger southern defenses) started up and moved on the Sanitorium, getting maybe halfway there before getting into a firefight with another hidden 76L. The 76L has no APCR, which more or less dashes any hopes of killing the tanks, but one Panther malf's it's MA (works for me; now if he can make it permanent that'll be cool). The 76L now feels a little silly dueling with two tanks it can't kill at point blank. The real trouble is bringing up the rear in the form of a couple of loaded halftracks. The bulk of the infantry probably can't make it to the Sanitorium just because of time constraints; it's a long way to go. The southern front is still holding strong, and has only lost one building to the Germans (and paratroopers at that; the SS all broke or were killed, leaving the 4-4-7's to really get the job done). In the center, the first building or two of Roua fell, the 76L gun is captured and the valiant crew taken out in CC, and the AT mines and the HIP squad with a BAZ are neutralized. The 10-3 is preparing to do a fighting withdrawl, difficult with only 3 MF's. After three and a half turns, the Germans are definately getting the worst of the CVP totals. Three burning halftracks, one burning panther, and probably two platoons dead outright, primarily due to the 80mm OBA (gotta like it), some good CC, and the M8. American causlaties are probably similar, maybe a bit lighter, in terms of infantry (which is probably good in light of the long-term infantry availability), but we have lost only one gun captured and no vehicles at all (yet - the M8 has got to die pretty soon). The CVP count is probably still pretty pro-American; those halftracks can really add up. As long as we can hold the Sanatorium, it is entirely possible that we could retain most of Stoumont (although certainly losing Roua). If the Sanatorium goes, things are bad, since it controls our route off-board. Anyway, the last 3 or so turns should be very interesting; despite getting badly stalled on two fronts, Chris and Mark can still do very well since the northern front collapsed and the Roua front is weakening badly. The last turns for the US are going to be damage control. I still haven't received my M4 reinforcement platoon, but I'm not sure it'll help much (although it might if I got some tanks of the 76L variety :-) Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- From: joq@austin.ibm.com (Jack O'Quin) Subject: can mortars gain ROF firing SMOKE? Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 12:27:52 -0600 I recently heard the claim that due to a "hole" in the rules, mortars can retain ROF when firing SMOKE. Is this true? I don't see where it says they can't. It seems that the restriction on ordinance gaining ROF when using SMOKE is due to the use of the Area Target Type. But mortars, which always use the ATT, are specifically excepted from this restriction. There is no specific mention of mortars firing SMOKE that I could find. Maybe I just missed something obvious. If true, this makes mortar SMOKE even more effective. With luck, one could lay down a long curtain of SMOKE hexes from a single mortar. Jack O'Quin ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 12:20:13 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: AAR: Guards Attack Bob Oppen and I played the Guards Attack last night and I thought I'd write it up for your enjoyment. I was the British and had no real plan, except to try and lay smoke and cover the advance of my infantry. Things started out very badly. Through clever placement of his ATG and alot of ROF, he managed to immobilize my lead sherman on the bridge :-( which sure slowed things up until I could get by.) and scare the bejebees out of everybody else. Turn two, again I couldn't get smoke out of my sD or sMs. But Bob solved that problem by blazing two of my tanks, one with a surprise LOS from the ATG and another with a PF. Fortunately for me, this, and the sD on my last Sherman, provided enough smoke for me to get to the edge of the woods on the left. Some good British fire broke everybody defending the outer edge of the woods and by turn 3, the Limeys were into them in force. Alot of good MCs, kept the british intact, but the german's didn't fare so well. By turn five, Bob's retreated the 10-3, 838/lmg, 468, and 447 back to the victory area while I eliminated/captured everything else (including the ATG) and I start working my way up. Accurate lmg fire (aided by the 10-3, pins, but doesn't break me. My remaining sherman rolls up dispenses some smoke to help most of the brits cross the road and now attack the German left flank (out of LOS of anything the 10-3 can see). I'd been saving my wp and s on my last sherman for his 10-3, but discover that all the smoke rounds had been left behind. So, I switch to HE and break the 468 covering his right flank. Next turn, 6 or 7, can't remember now, I prep fire the sherman at the 10-3, 838/lmg, 447 and with ROF, break them all. :-) :-) :-) As everybody was broken, Bob conceded. A fun and short scenario. It seems tough for the Germans, though my good MCs throughout the game and his poor ones sure helped me alot. Don Hancock ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 12:43:45 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Goliath > > Hi there everybody. > > After deciding to take on The Old Town with Patrik Olsson, I read > (and reread and reread and...) the rules for the Goliath and have couple > of questions about them. (they are not relevant to this game, though. Patrik > sent my Goliath to the junkyard - after spectacular fireworks :-)) > > Now here are couple of quotes from the rules that tell how it works: > > "A Goliath attacks (and may attack the same targets) as a Placed DC, > but with 36 FP." > "... If a Goliath becomes a burning wreck or is detonated, it explodes > in the same manner as a 36 FP Placed DC attack [EXC: deleted] vs all unarmored > units in its hex and a 16 FP DC attack vs such units in each hex adjacent to > it." > "...Placement is considered to be at the level occupied by the Goliath." > > So ? Does it attack EVERYONE in the hex ? Everyone on every different > level, say of a building, including cellars ? Or just the location that it is > occupying ? If it's a Placed DC, it should attack the units in that location > only. However, the second sentence says that everyone in the hex is attacked. > Then what is the relevance of the third sentence ? Same goes for adjacent > hexes: Everyone in the hex or only the units at the same level with the Goliath. IMHO it would attack units in its location with 36 FP and adjacent (not ADJACENT) locations with 16 FP. > > > Now, if the answer to this question is "only units at the same level," > there will be another question: > > "...A Goliath can be detonated (i.e., attack) in a friendly AFPh - but > only if its controller can use a SW and is unpinned, non-BU, in Good Order and > has a LOS to both the Goliath and at least one enemy unit or bridge that can > be affacted by its attack." > > What exactly is meant by "affected"? If the effects of the detonation > is restricted to the location or level that the Goliath is on, some units, say, > on the second floor of a building will be same from direct effects of the > detonation of a Goliath on the ground floor. However, in such a case, a wooden > building has a probability very near to 1/6 of collapsing, killing all those > units. Therefore: Can the Goliath be detonated ? "Affected" means a unit which is attacked directly by the IFT or TK. In the case of a collapsing building, the Goliath is affecing the building which affects the units. Fred Timm > > > well, how many scenarios will we see with Goliaths in ? Do we really > have to worry about all these things ? :-) > > take care, > bahadir > > ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 15:50:54 EDT From: danl@jargon.whoi.edu (Dan Leader) Subject: D-Day Reenactment I'm anxiously awaiting a report by anyone involved in last Saturday's D-Day reenactment in Denver as to how it went. It sounded like quite an event! -Dan Leader ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:03:05 PDT From: erimli@systems.caltech.edu (Bahadir Erimli) Subject: Goliath Hi there everybody. After deciding to take on The Old Town with Patrik Olsson, I read (and reread and reread and...) the rules for the Goliath and have couple of questions about them. (they are not relevant to this game, though. Patrik sent my Goliath to the junkyard - after spectacular fireworks :-)) Now here are couple of quotes from the rules that tell how it works: "A Goliath attacks (and may attack the same targets) as a Placed DC, but with 36 FP." "... If a Goliath becomes a burning wreck or is detonated, it explodes in the same manner as a 36 FP Placed DC attack [EXC: deleted] vs all unarmored units in its hex and a 16 FP DC attack vs such units in each hex adjacent to it." "...Placement is considered to be at the level occupied by the Goliath." So ? Does it attack EVERYONE in the hex ? Everyone on every different level, say of a building, including cellars ? Or just the location that it is occupying ? If it's a Placed DC, it should attack the units in that location only. However, the second sentence says that everyone in the hex is attacked. Then what is the relevance of the third sentence ? Same goes for adjacent hexes: Everyone in the hex or only the units at the same level with the Goliath. Now, if the answer to this question is "only units at the same level," there will be another question: "...A Goliath can be detonated (i.e., attack) in a friendly AFPh - but only if its controller can use a SW and is unpinned, non-BU, in Good Order and has a LOS to both the Goliath and at least one enemy unit or bridge that can be affacted by its attack." What exactly is meant by "affected"? If the effects of the detonation is restricted to the location or level that the Goliath is on, some units, say, on the second floor of a building will be same from direct effects of the detonation of a Goliath on the ground floor. However, in such a case, a wooden building has a probability very near to 1/6 of collapsing, killing all those units. Therefore: Can the Goliath be detonated ? well, how many scenarios will we see with Goliaths in ? Do we really have to worry about all these things ? :-) take care, bahadir ----- Subject: COUNTER STORAGE BOXES From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 17:15:00 -0640 Howdy, Recent posts about counter storage reminded me to share my latest discovery. I have been using Plano boxes which are divided into four long strips. Separators are provided to divide the long strips into small compartments. The problem is that the separators are loose. They tend to slide up and let counters slide under them. They also slide up when counters are pulled out. I tried the obvious solution, glue, but whatever plastic these boxes are made of, it's more non-stick than a Reagan presidency. This made the boxes less useful than they might have been. Then I tried using a soldering iron to join the separators to the box. It worked beautifully. I secured the separators at the top, at a point half way down, and along the bottom. No more counter mixing. BTW I won't be revealing my counter storage system lest I give any potential opponent an advantage :-) So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: joq@austin.ibm.com (Jack O'Quin) Subject: Re: more ASL team tourney Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 17:06:49 -0600 > Matt Shostak writes: > > I immediately took the initiative in the pregame taunt and pose > phase by insulting Tom's counter storage system. I can testify to the effectiveness of this devastating ploy. During the tournament, Matt's only loss came when he made the mistake of using _his own_ counter trays. Thus prevented from destroying his opponent's morale in the TPPh, Matt came up just a little short of exit VPs at game end. :-) Jack "Who says only Matts are annoying?" O'Quin ----- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 15:24:25 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: Re: COUNTER STORAGE BOXES JR enlightens us with > > Howdy, > > Recent posts about counter storage reminded me to share my > latest discovery. I have been using Plano boxes which are > divided into four long strips. Separators are provided to > divide the long strips into small compartments. The problem > is that the separators are loose. They tend to slide up > and let counters slide under them. They also slide up when > counters are pulled out. > > I tried the obvious solution, glue, but whatever plastic > these boxes are made of, it's more non-stick than a Reagan > presidency. This made the boxes less useful than they might > have been. Then I tried using a soldering iron to join the > separators to the box. It worked beautifully. I secured the > separators at the top, at a point half way down, and along > the bottom. No more counter mixing. > > BTW I won't be revealing my counter storage system lest I > give any potential opponent an advantage :-) Please, JR, Please, Please, Please, Please, Please, post this. There's nothing I like better than a good counter storage thread :-) :-) :-) Don "let me tell you about MY counter storage system" Hancock ----- From: AAronson@aol.com Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 22:37:33 EDT Subject: Conversion SL -> ASL Does anyone know a sure fire (or area sure fire) way of doing this? I mean, converting SL scenarios to ASL scenarios? ANY hints would be welcome... .A. ----- From: "hr. Patrik Olsson" Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 05:14:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Conversion SL -> ASL Hi A! :) A few (or lots, dunno) SL scenarion have been converted to ASL in annuals and Generals. Check 'em out and see if there is a general way to attack this problem :) Patrik ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- po@lysator.liu.se "Life is a party and I'm not invited" c93patol@und.ida.liu.se Joakim, a deep loading existensialist. Patrik Olsson Rydsv. 258 B : 26 "Life sucks och }ss} d|r man" 582 51 Linköping Sweden 2nd Lt Bengtsson, swedish army corps. 013-171619 +46-13-171619 for those outside Sweden :) "Diskspace, the final frontier..." Not Captain J.T Kirk of Enterprise IRC alias Darkface "In dblspace, noone can hear u scream!" The microsoftprogrammer of dblspace ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Subject: WWW Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 12:43:28 +0200 From: Asad Rustum Sunny Greetings, Announcement! I have got my ASL-related WWW-pages set up now. Why don't you check it out? It is by no means finished; much will be deleted/added/changed, but this is as far as I have come. Folks, enjoy! +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Asad Rustum 'Oh Lord won't you buy me f90-aru@nada.kth.se a Mercedes Benz...' atomic@astrakan.hgs.se Janis Joplin http://www.nada.kth.se/~f90-aru ----- Date: 8 Jun 1994 08:22:32 U From: "Noah Matt" Subject: AFVs & A7.212 This is actually for Neal Smith, whose address I seem to have lost. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. A11.7 contains the rule that imposes the A7.212 firing restrictions on an immobile AFV *or* an AFV that chooses to remain in the hex with enemy infantry/cavalry. (I'm not quoting here, better look at A11.7). Later. Matt ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 14:28:00 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: can mortars gain ROF firing SMOKE? > > But mortars, which always use the ATT, are > > specifically excepted from this restriction. There is no specific > > mention of mortars firing SMOKE that I could find. > > Kinda makes you wanna just run home and try this, huh? But it sounds too > good to be true..... > > Paul > > Yes, mortars can definately retain ROF while firing SMOKE. In one of the Annuals, I think it was the '92 issue in the series replay article, it says that allowing mortars ROF while firing SMOKE was a "hole" in the rules, and they intended to change this in the '89 errata, but by then this ability had proved so popular that they decided not to change the rule. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 07:53:03 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) Okay, So color me stupid. What is WWW? If I wanted to check it out, where would I do so? What is the world's third longest river? Tom Huntington ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 09:51:39 EDT From: ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu (Jeff Kimmel) Subject: A7.212 OK, after reading all these posts about fire restrictions, I'm still a bit confused. Let me cite two examples form the KGP1 scenario we are currently playing. Im on the American team, btw. An American tank is in a house and a German tanks stops in bypass in the hex. Both are BU. The American tank cannont fire outside the hex, correct? The German tank has a broken MA also (no recall :( ). A squad with a MMG and a leader are in a house. A BU German halftrack parks in bypass in the hex. The Ameriacn cannot fire at anything but the HT until it is a wreck, correct? (this move cost me the main fire lane defense of the sanotorium :(, he slipped 3 squads and a 10-3 through) I want to know if the HT holds the American squads since it is BU and has no usable weapons to attack the Americans. Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Jeff Kimmel ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu st91nc28@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu ----- Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 08:28:12 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: Conversion SL -> ASL Read Stahler's articles in the General where he discusses how he does it. General clues are: * Keep the boards and game length the same * Slightly reduce the number and/or strength of MG's since they're more powerful in ASL. * If you tinker with the number of MMC's, reduce them slightly. Stahler fairly often will also take three or four MMC's and upgrade or downgrade them by one step (ie, 447's going to 436's, 467's to 468's). * If you tinker with the leaders, Stahler will mostly upgrade or downgrade the best leader by one step (most often changing a 9-1 to a 9-2 or vice-versa), and perhaps add a 7-0. * Since Victory Points are different between the two systems, you'll have to change the number of VP necessary to win if the VC's are based on VP. Figure out what the percentage of the total OB is required to win in the SL scenario, and apply that same percentage to the ASL version. EX: If the SL version says you need to exit 20 VP and you originally get 40, then the ASL version should require you to exit 50% of the at-start OB, whatever that comes out to. * Add Environmental Conditions as an SSR, generally clear with no wind * Check Chapter H for the basic ELR of each side during that time frame, and perhaps adjust up or down 1 depending on how the game feels * I have no idea about vehicles, but my guess is that they're probably the same between SL and ASL, with maybe changing their number by 1 or so. Tom ----- From: Neal Smith Subject: Re: A7.212 Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 10:58:10 -0400 (EDT) > > A squad with a MMG and a leader are in a house. A BU German halftrack parks > in bypass in the hex. The Ameriacn cannot fire at anything but the HT until > it is a wreck, correct? (this move cost me the main fire lane defense of > the sanotorium :(, he slipped 3 squads and a 10-3 through) I want to know > if the HT holds the American squads since it is BU and has no usable weapons > to attack the Americans. > This situation is exactly why I don't like this ruling! I think it's wuite sleazy to be able to do this. I still don't understand why this rule applies when you can't bring TPBF (by the rule definition) onto this AFV. I could only see this usage of the rule only when the AFV is CE. What does it take to get an "errata" changed back to a realistic rule? Later, Neal Smith ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:01:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: WWW, etc.. What is WWW? World Wide Web What is the world's third longest river? New York City sewer system(?) Paul ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 10:48:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: can mortars gain ROF firing SMOKE? > Yes, mortars can definately retain ROF while firing SMOKE. In one of the > Annuals, I think it was the '92 issue in the series replay article, it says > that allowing mortars ROF while firing SMOKE was a "hole" in the rules, and > they intended to change this in the '89 errata, but by then this ability > had proved so popular that they decided not to change the rule. Wow again. Am I gonna have fun with this one day: "Heh, heh, heh. I have you now you rotten german/american/russkie/etc. scum! I am going to lay down a smoke screen with my 4 mortars and over run you!" A drum roll....and the the die rolls (please): Reality: Fantasy: R4W6...drat! R1W3 (2-3 times in a row) R5W5...Drat! R1W3 (4-5 times in a row) R6W6...*&%$#! R1W3 (1-2 times in a row - why be greedy?) R4W5...$#@&^%@#$%^&! R1W3 (2-3 times in a row) Paul "Its OK to dream, isn't it?" Ferraro ----- Subject: A7.212 From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 10:53:00 -0640 Howdy, ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu (Jeff Kimmel) writes: >OK, after reading all these posts about fire restrictions, >I'm still a bit confused. Let me cite two examples form the >KGP1 scenario we are currently playing. Im on the American >team, btw. In general you can't fire out of a hex with an enemy unit in it. In your cases there are some points to note. >An American tank is in a house and a German tanks stops in >bypass in the hex. Both are BU. The American tank cannont >fire outside the hex, correct? The German tank has a >broken MA also (no recall :( ). You got sleazed here: D2.6 "ENEMY AFV: A vehicle cannot voluntarily stop or end its MPh in Motion in an enemy AFV's hex unless it can do so out of that AFV's LOS (i.e., while Bypassing a hexside opposite that of the DEFENDER's Bypass AFV), or unless it can, at the moment and position of entry into that hex, attack that AFV (regardless of its To Hit possibility) and be capable of destroying or shocking it with an Original TK or IFT DR of 5." A broken MA won't cut the mustard. >A squad with a MMG and a leader are in a house. A BU German >halftrack parks in bypass in the hex. The Ameriacn cannot >fire at anything but the HT until it is a wreck, correct? >(this move cost me the main fire lane defense of the >sanotorium :(, he slipped 3 squads and a 10-3 through) I >want to know if the HT holds the American squads since it >is BU and has no usable weapons to attack the Americans. Here your opponent is on more solid ground. You can make him pay, however. When in stationary Bypass the vehicle is automatically eligible for Street Fighting (A11.8). You may use CC Reaction Fire [D7.21] to kill that puppy, and if you pass the PAATC you have a good chance. This does tie up your units, however. An alternative is to attack on the IFT (D7.211 "Halftrack Passengers and OT AFV crews are subject to [TPBF attacks] even if not CE, but receive the +2 CE DRM (D5.31)"). If you attacked with just the squad, you might get a kill and have the MG available for the fire lane. On the other hand, you might attack with both the squad and the MG and either hope for ROF or that you can use SFF on the other units. Finally, you might go for the TH/TK attack with the MG. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:40:08 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) JR writes... >>An American tank is in a house and a German tanks stops in >>bypass in the hex. Both are BU. The American tank cannont >>fire outside the hex, correct? The German tank has a >>broken MA also (no recall :( ). > >You got sleazed here: > >D2.6 "ENEMY AFV: A vehicle cannot voluntarily stop or end >its MPh in Motion in an enemy AFV's hex unless it can do so >out of that AFV's LOS (i.e., while Bypassing a hexside >opposite that of the DEFENDER's Bypass AFV), or unless it >can, at the moment and position of entry into that hex, >attack that AFV (regardless of its To Hit possibility) and >be capable of destroying or shocking it with an Original TK >or IFT DR of 5." > Can a German halftrack with a passenger stop in the hex of a JSII? Can the passenger firing a PF from the 'track count for this requirement? Post opinions, things are getting mighty slow round here. Brian ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:03:08 -0500 From: Bryan Milligan Subject: Looking for players in NW Florida/ SC Alabama Howdy all, First let me apologize if this is not the proper venue for such a request, but I recently became affiliated with a great group of players in Austin, and I'm not looking forward to the idea of being ftf-less again. I'll soon be moving to the Ft. Walton Beach, Florida area (actually I'll be living midway between the coast and Alabama), and I was wondering if there are any players on the list in northwest Florida or south-central Alabama. (I've been known to drive as much as four hours round-trip for a game. Call me crazy.) Anybody out there? Bryan ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:03:08 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: trivia Guys, It has been slow on the list lately, so here's a trivia question that came up at the Austin ASL Team Tournament. Disregarding informational counters, how many counters can legally be stacked in a location, without overstacking? In a hex? Have fun, Matt ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:15:35 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: Re: trivia > From mbs Wed Jun 8 11:06:37 1994 > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:03:08 CDT > From: mbs > To: asl@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: trivia > Content-Length: 274 > > Guys, > > It has been slow on the list lately, so here's a trivia question that > came up at the Austin ASL Team Tournament. > > > > Disregarding informational counters, how many counters can legally be stacked > in a location, without overstacking? In a hex? > I guess I should add that all weapons must be possessed. Otherwise, it's a pretty silly question. Matt > > Have fun, > > Matt > > > ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 09:21:54 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: trivia > Guys, > > It has been slow on the list lately, so here's a trivia question that > came up at the Austin ASL Team Tournament. > > > > Disregarding informational counters, how many counters can legally be stacked > in a location, without overstacking? In a hex? There is no limit. Given enough time and SW, you can have a leader in a hex, have 3 squads each with several SW move into the hex. In the APh they transfer all the SW to the leader and leave the hex. Repeat each turn for several turns and you could end up with a leader possessing 100+ SW. Can you say QuarterMaster? Fred > > > Have fun, > > Matt > > > ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:44:19 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: trivia answer Okay, I forgot to mention the proviso about not exceeding anyone's IPC also. So here's my best guess: In a location, 6 HS, each with three 1-IPC weapons, and 4 leaders, each with a 1-IPC weapon. That's 24 + 8 = 32. Throw in a vehicle, and you get 33. For a hex, take a 2 story building with a rooftop and cellar (RB), and put the same amount of infantry in each location, getting 5x32 = 160, plus a tank in bypass for 161. Try balancing that stack. Cheers, Matt P.S. Sorry about posting an irrelevant message to the list. ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 13:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Avaloncon Haven't seen the list, but Jim Shetler and me are probably gonna be there. ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 13:33:36 EST From: "Cocke, Perry" Subject: Re: trivia Well, seeing as how a unit can possess an infinite number of SW.... Is this counting the Shallow Beach Location with that really big LC in it? ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 11:42:52 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Avaloncon Hi, Anyone seen the list for this year's scenarios used by round? I'm in the mood for an editorial on the subject! 8) On this note, who's going and who's buying the beer. I know earlier I posted that I wasn't playing ASL, but I feel forced to attempt yet another decent finish. Maybe this is my year? Doubtful. Oh well, at least I can hope that my AREA rating is under 1500 so I can try for the "newbie" trophy! Brian ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 12:10:12 -0600 From: djgour@acs.ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: trivia Well, I'll give it a first shot... In Location: 6 half-squads each with 3 1 pp weapons = 24 4 leaders each with a 1 pp weapon = 8 ---- 32 In Hex with a sewer location, cellar, 3 levels and a rooftop we would have s,c,g,1,2,3,r x 32 = 224 counters in hex This assumes no one is carrying more than their portage ability, could be way more if they were Darren Gour ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:52:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Re: trivia Let's not forget that the multi-level-building is on the edge of a cliff and there are guys climbing/descending the cliff and trying to throw DC/grenades into the caves in that cliff. And can you get more than one bypassing vehicle in there without exceeding stacking ( i.e. one per hexside)? Brent ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Brent Pollock Subject: Re: trivia I also forgot to mention that all the leaders are wounded or heroic and the HS are fanatic. Eventually some of them get TI/PIN/?/CX/labor (some -1, others -2)/disrupted/discovers the minefield/places one (partial) TB on each hexside. Commandos also start climbing the building, every level, every vertex/hexside. Eventually the counters either: 1. collapse the table or 2. hit the roof or 3. compress themselves into a fused mass Ciao! Brent ----- Subject: trivia From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 14:36:00 -0640 Howdy, mbs@zycor.lgc.com writes: >Disregarding informational counters, how many counters can >legally be stacked in a location, without overstacking? In >a hex? An infinite number, because SW and Guns don't count for stacking. If you restrict yourself to Real Units restricted to IPC, you could put 34 SMC, each possessing an LMG and guarding a prisoner squad and HS each in a Location plus a vehicle, and the stack would be pretty tall. You might try my trick of loading that LVT4(A) with SMC and LMGs too. And Perry's idea of sticking a really big LC is good too. What, the SMCs are on horses too? I assume you don't like the idea of unmounted horses (which are not restricted by stacking). That's some tallllll stack o' pancakes. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ foo ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 15:15:12 EDT From: earle@cmc.ca (Adrian Earle) Subject: Re: trivia Here is my answer: For an Open Ground Hex: Thirty four unwounded SMC each with a 1PP SW per location. Add a 357 pillbox with 34 more SMC with a 1PP SW Add a CE LVT4 with an armor leader, 35 with 4 1PP SW SMC passengers, an additional 4 SMC passengers and hero with two 1PP SW as a rider Add another 34SMC with 34 1PP weapons in a tunnel leading to the pillbox Thats 253 counters in a Non Building Hex. Now add an infinate amount of ? counters. In a sewer, cellar, 1,2,3, Roof building with LVCT4 in Bypass its its 456 plus ?s You might want to toss in a spotting plane too. Adrian ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: trivia Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 15:50:09 EDT Guys - I've been amused by all the attempts to fill a hex with counters. Actually, the limit cannot be infinite because of course you can't produce infinitely many counters. Besides, all you need is a hill with infinitely many levels and then put a cliff with infititely many caves in it, each with a SMC. So getting *countably* infinitely many counters in a hex isn't too challenging. The real challange might be to get an *uncountably* infinite number of counters in a hex. I would be impressed. Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- From: "Conklin, Ross E." Subject: KGP Gun CA constraints Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 16:15:00 PDT Since things are slow, I am asking this without checking the rulebook. In KGP during the initial scenario of CGI, the American Gun covered arcs are randomly determined when initially revealed. What exactly does this mean and can it be avoided? Does "revealed" mean when the Gun loses concealment? For example, one of the 76Ls is HIP. I take a shot when no one can see the Gun (in the processing placing an area acquisition). It still remains HIP since no enemy unit has an LOS. Do I have to roll for covered arc before taking the shot or not? If not, does it really make sense to have an acquired hex that could conceivably be outside of my covered arc in the future when the Gun is revealed due to a dr? Also, can the covered arc dr be avoided if I do not use HIP but just set up concealed? Thanks, rc ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 11:38:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "P. Gowdy" Subject: Re: trivia Choose a 3 story building, put a lot of big trucks next to the building (if possible) and place all of the small SWs (e.g., MMG), three squads and leaders and however many artillery/AT guns and you get a whole lot of counters; all the small SWs in the game I suppose. So it is sort of a silly question. Pete Gowdy ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 13:36:31 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: Re: KGP Gun CA constraints > > Since things are slow, I am asking this without checking the rulebook. In > KGP during the initial scenario of CGI, the American Gun covered arcs are > randomly determined when initially revealed. What exactly does this mean and > can it be avoided? Does "revealed" mean when the Gun loses concealment? For > example, one of the 76Ls is HIP. I take a shot when no one can see the Gun > (in the processing placing an area acquisition). It still remains HIP since > no enemy unit has an LOS. Do I have to roll for covered arc before taking > the shot or not? If not, does it really make sense to have an acquired hex > that could conceivably be outside of my covered arc in the future when the > Gun is revealed due to a dr? Also, can the covered arc dr be avoided if I do > not use HIP but just set up concealed? > > Thanks, > rc > I've thought about this a little and my opinion is that if you want to give away the location of a HIP gun by revealing (becoming unconcealed), then you can randomly check the CA at that time. If you time when you reveal it right, you may be able to grow concealment back during your CC phase. It seems a fair price to trade away knowledge of HIP location for the not having the wrong CA at a bad time. Any scheme that determines the CA while retaining HIP is IMO not reasonable and unfair. :-) :-) -- I threw the smileys in because my response seemed way too serious :-) Don Hancock ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 15:43:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Austin Subject: Pz 35R(f) AFV in Scenario 17 Does anyone on the list know about this AFV counter? It is used in the "Lost Opportunities" scenario from Paratroopers. I can't find it in Chapter H. Am I mistaken in my belief that all of the AFVs are supposed to be listed in Chapter H? The counter is a light tank with 4/4 AF with superior turret, 1MT, a 37mm MA, 8 MP. Thanks in advance for any info. Mike Austin mikea@bga.com ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 13:56:12 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Pz 35R(f) AFV in Scenario 17 > Does anyone on the list know about this AFV counter? It is used > in the "Lost Opportunities" scenario from Paratroopers. I can't > find it in Chapter H. Am I mistaken in my belief that all of the > AFVs are supposed to be listed in Chapter H? > > The counter is a light tank with 4/4 AF with superior turret, 1MT, > a 37mm MA, 8 MP. > > Thanks in advance for any info. There are 3-4 AFV's not in chapter H. The Pz 35R(f) was included in Para. Use the info on the counter and look at the French R35(?) for more info. The other two I can think of are the 150 AG in RB and the AAHT in KPG. I have asked Mac several times to include the vehicle notes somewhere, but thus far they have not been published. Fred > > Mike Austin > mikea@bga.com > ----- From: Marcus.Schakowski@lair.cds.alt.za (Marcus Schakowski) Date: 08 Jun 94 17:39:20 +0200 Subject: Changing VCA while not in motion Greetings everyone, I have a question regarding changing the VCA of a vehicle NOT in motion. Assume that a PzJg Tiger (non-turrted AFV) is stationary in the open. A T-34 is sneaking up from behind getting ready for a rear-shot. The way I understand the rules, the Elefant can change it's VCA to engage the T-34 in the DFPh (at +3/+1/+1) WITHOUT having to be in motion. Besides not making logical sense (how can an AFV turn without engaging its tracks ?!) it also has another implication: If the PzJg Tiger was to perform the same maneuver in its MPh, it would have to spend 4 MP's in total (1 to start, 2 to turn, 1 to stop) and have to roll for mechanical breakdown (having a red MP allowance). Am I missing something in the rules that stipulates that the vehicle must attempt to gain motion status as the T-34 sneaks up (this is our house-rule at the moment) ? Note: The rules DO stipulate that an AFV that is immobilized may not change its VCA. What gives ? Marcus (MS@lair.cds.alt.za) ... New Mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/N) --- Blue Wave/Max v2.10 [NR] ----- From: pec@cbstp2.att.com (Patrick E Connolly +1 614 860 7163) Date: 8 Jun 94 23:21:00 GMT Subject: Re: trivia >From: Chris Farrell >Subject: trivia > >Guys - > >I've been amused by all the attempts to fill a hex with counters. Actually, >the limit cannot be infinite because of course you can't produce infinitely >many counters. > >Besides, all you need is a hill with infinitely many levels and then put >a cliff with infititely many caves in it, each with a SMC. So getting >*countably* infinitely many counters in a hex isn't too challenging. The real >challange might be to get an *uncountably* infinite number of counters in a >hex. I would be impressed. > >-- >Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, >Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, >ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope >Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga That's easy! Next to that first cliff, put a second cliff that has a cave for each possible subset of caves in the first cliff. With an SMC in each cave of the second cliff, that's aleph zero SMCs in a hex. Now add a vehicle. "And if California slides into the ocean Like the mystics and statistics say it will, Pat Connolly I predict this motel will be standing att!cbstp2!pec Until I pay my bill." - W. Zevon pec%cbstp2@research.att.com ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 16:26:10 PDT Marcus writes: > Greetings everyone, > > I have a question regarding changing the VCA of a vehicle NOT in > motion. > > Assume that a PzJg Tiger (non-turrted AFV) is stationary in the open. > A T-34 is sneaking up from behind getting ready for a rear-shot. > The way I understand the rules, the Elefant can change it's VCA to > engage the T-34 in the DFPh (at +3/+1/+1) WITHOUT having to be in motion. > Besides not making logical sense (how can an AFV turn without engaging its > tracks ?!) it also has another implication: > If the PzJg Tiger was to perform the same maneuver in its MPh, it would > have to spend 4 MP's in total (1 to start, 2 to turn, 1 to stop) and > have to roll for mechanical breakdown (having a red MP allowance). > > Am I missing something in the rules that stipulates that the vehicle > must attempt to gain motion status as the T-34 sneaks up (this is our > house-rule at the moment) ? Nope. There's no such rule. > Note: The rules DO stipulate that an AFV that is immobilized may not > change its VCA. > > > What gives ? There's an errata somewhere that specifies that a red-MP vehicle DOES have to make a Mech. Breakdown roll. Although the tracks ARE engaged, the tank isn't moving in the normal sense; it's only rotating in place. Presumably they decided that this was not as difficult as trying to fire after just being actually driving across the countryside. Note also that if the T-34 Stops before the PzJg decides to fire, it can declare a Gun Duel with a good chance to win and get the first shot (which happens BEFORE the CA change). If not, the PzJg's CA is now fixed barring ROF/IF, so just move on and get your side shot. I think the real rationalization behind that way the vehicle and gun rules work together is that a single tank should have a difficult time getting behind an opposing single tank, and the rules are designed to make that true. It's hard to reflect this otherwise without simultaneous movement, so the TD gets many opportunities to change its CA (which, realistically, should happen faster than you can move around it under most circumstances). When you consider a battle with a few other tanks around it becomes MUCH easier to get your rear shot. The thing you've got to keep in mind, though, is that reality doesn't care about turn sequences. Tanks move when they move, so there's no reason why the TD should be fixed in place while you merrily drive around it, and if you don't take that into account you get some really screwy results. What I DON'T like is that if the TD had an MG, it could use THAT to change its CA too... so the number of facing changes you can take is partially determined by the number of MGs you have. Ick. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 21:50:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Tartaglia Subject: Re: A7.212 On Wed, 8 Jun 1994, Jeff Kimmel wrote: > An American tank is in a house and a German tanks stops in bypass in the > hex. Both are BU. The American tank cannont fire outside the hex, correct? > The German tank has a broken MA also (no recall :( ). > Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > The above could not happen, the German tank cannot stop in the hex with the American tank. Read D2.6 :) ==Daniel T. ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:30:10 +0100 From: Joseph Boeke (by way of roma@pe.chalmers.se (Robert Maglica)) Subject: COMP: Beyond Squad Leader I got this from Consim-l. Enjoy, Robert Maglica ******************************************************************** Designer's Notes B E Y O N D S Q U A D L E A D E R --- Game Designer Gary Riley talks about an opponent that is fast, competent, and deadly ... the Battlefield Artificial Intelligence in this upcoming game from Avalon Hill and Atomic Games. --- One of the great advantages of a computerized board game is that the player doesn't have to wait for his opponents to be available. One of the great disadvantages of a computerized board game is that the computer opponent is seldom as good as a human opponent. This becomes more apparent as the games become more sophisticated. So, for the upcoming Beyond Squad Leader (BSL) game from Avalon Hill and Atomic Games, we have focused on constructing a computer opponent that is fast, competent, and deadly. Overview The Artificial Intelligence (AI) in BSL is composed of two distinct components: the Planner and the Executor. The Planner analyzes the current tactical situation and generates commands for each squad, while the Executor, well, executes those commands. Typical Planner commands would be to move to a location along a specified path or to deploy troops so that they can fire into a specified arc. (While the computer player always uses the Planner to deploy its squads, the Planner can also be used to generate commands for any or all of the human player's units.) Once the Planner issues a command to a squad, the Executor determines what the squad actually does and how it does it. The Executor looks at the experience of each squad member as well as his psychological profile and current physical and mental conditions. (This information is available to the player, but all the bookkeeping is done by the computer.) The end result may be that the unit cowers or breaks or actually performs the assigned task. The Planner - Back to the Drawing Board The core of the BSL Planner is its blackboard architecture. In this architecture, independent "agents" process data made available to them from a global knowledge source called a "blackboard." (Intelligent agents are the latest buzzwords in the field of AI. Think of an agent as a computer program capable of performing a useful task for you without requiring explicit orders.) The blackboard paradigm is analogous to the real world situation of a group of people trying to solve a large problem by dividing it up and parceling it out. As pieces of the problem are solved, information useful for solving other parts of the problem can be written to a blackboard. In this way, each person can occasionally look up at the blackboard to see if there is any information which will be useful for solving their part of the problem. In the BSL Planner, each squad, platoon, company, and so forth is represented by an agent which is able to communicate with other units through the blackboard. A typical planning session might proceed as follows: The company commander agent determines that the overall goal for the company is to occupy a house near a crossroads. This information is posted to the blackboard. Each of the platoon agents seeing this information begins to formulate actions it can take to achieve this objective. These actions are then posted to the blackboard. Alpha platoon might be able to approach the objective location by either moving through a wooded area to the southeast or from the southwest by moving along a road. Given this information, the company commander agent coordinates the actions of the platoons. He may want all of his platoons in place before he has a platoon that is already in position open fire on the enemy and expose itself. Once the platoon actions have been coordinated, the company commander agent posts these to the blackboard so that the platoon leader agents can see them. This process of interaction would then be repeated between the squad leader agents and the platoon leader agents. In addition to the ability to realistically plan actions for squads, the BSL blackboard architecture provides other advantages. First, it makes it easy to simulate a squad being out of command control at any level in the command hierarchy. If a squad is out of the command control of its platoon leader, all that needs to be done to simulate this situation is to prevent the squad from sending or receiving information from the platoon leader agent through the blackboard. The squad out of command control is still capable of determining its actions based on its current tactical situation-it's just not capable of coordinating them with other squads in its platoon. Another advantage of the blackboard architecture is that it provides an easy mechanism through which the human player can assign specific squads to be controlled by the computer. The human controlled squads are directly given orders by the player which are then posted to the blackboard so that the computer controlled agents can utilize this information to generate their own actions. The Executor - The Freudian Connection One of the remarkable features of BSL is its psychological model. Developed by a combat psychiatrist (and war gamer) specifically for BSL, the psych model takes into account all facets of the "human" elements of men in combat. Each man in each squad has his own history and psychological profile. The player will want to examine these when organizing the squads since, as we all know, some people just don't get along well with others. The program monitors this and displays team cohesion and effectiveness. It also shows how leaders can effect a team's performance, both positively and negatively. As mentioned earlier, the Executor receives a command from the Planner (or the player) and determines how the specified squad will behave. The Executor first decides whether or not the unit will obey. This requires several checks and cross references of the psych profile and background of each man in the unit. Among the things the Executor looks for is the wounding or death of a comrade (or worse, a leader), whether or not the unit is under fire (and for how long), and generally how experienced each man is. And if one man breaks, cowers, or decides to be brave, the Executor has to determine how that effects everyone else. Assuming the squad decides to attack, the Executor now chooses the weapon each man is to use and the target he uses it on. Here, again, each man's background and experience is considered. It is quite possible for an inexperienced soldier to fire the wrong weapon at the wrong target or for him to expend far too much ammunition. The Executor keeps track of all such occurances, in addition to myriad other details. In this way, the Executor adds realism to the game by providing a sanity check on the commands given to each unit. Together, the Planner and the Executor combine to make Beyond Squad Leader's computer opponent tough, realistic, and a bugger to beat. We hope you'll agree. --- (Beyond Squad Leader is being designed and developed by Atomic Games, Inc. and published by The Avalon Hill Game Company, Inc. Look for it [Spring of '95]. Gary Riley who is designing the Strategic AI for Beyond Squad Leader, works at the Johnson Space Center in Houston.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This article originally appeared in the June 1994 issue of Strategy Plus magazine. For subscription information, please call 800-283-3542 within North America or 802-767-4622 elsewhere. This article has been uploaded to the Atomic Games Internet Server with the permission of Strategy Plus magazine. The Atomic Games Internet Server may be reached at listserv@atomic.com - Joe Boeke jrboeke@uci.edu "The day after tommorow is the third day, of the rest of your life." - George Carlin ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:52:14 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion Doug writes: > There's an errata somewhere that specifies that a red-MP vehicle DOES have to > make a Mech. Breakdown roll. Although the tracks ARE engaged, the tank isn't > moving in the normal sense; it's only rotating in place. Presumably they > decided that this was not as difficult as trying to fire after just being > actually driving across the countryside. Note also that if the T-34 Stops > before the PzJg decides to fire, it can declare a Gun Duel with a good chance > to win and get the first shot (which happens BEFORE the CA change). If not, > the PzJg's CA is now fixed barring ROF/IF, so just move on and get your side > shot. > > The errata you are thinking of applies only to Motion attempts, not to change of the VCA without a Motion attempt. > > I think the real rationalization behind that way the vehicle and gun rules > work together is that a single tank should have a difficult time getting > behind an opposing single tank, and the rules are designed to make that true. > It's hard to reflect this otherwise without simultaneous movement, so the TD > gets many opportunities to change its CA (which, realistically, should happen > faster than you can move around it under most circumstances). When you > consider a battle with a few other tanks around it becomes MUCH easier to get > your rear shot. The thing you've got to keep in mind, though, is that reality > doesn't care about turn sequences. Tanks move when they move, so there's no > reason why the TD should be fixed in place while you merrily drive around it, > and if you don't take that into account you get some really screwy results. > > What I DON'T like is that if the TD had an MG, it could use THAT to change its > CA too... so the number of facing changes you can take is partially > determined by the number of MGs you have. Ick. > > -- I totally agree. What I would like to see is a rules change saying that a vehicle may change its (V)CA a fixed number of times during the enemy MPh irrespective of the number of MGs. I will probably use such a house rule when I get to start the KGP CG (I'll only have to finish my RB CG III first, it's only 23 days left :-) Anyway I think the rule should be something like this: A Vehicle may change its (V)CA three (or four, or maybe even five - I don't know what's most realistic) times during the opponents MPh/its own DFPh. Even if the vehicle still has a weapon that may fire, it may not change it's (V)CA more than this number of times. A Vehicle that has fired all its weapons but not changed its (V)CA this number of times may freely change its (V)CA without firing during these two phases. For this rule only, when the vehicle fires a weapon, count this as a change of (V)CA even if it fired without changing the (V)CA. The possible VCA change during a Motion attempt is not counted for this rule. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 06:47:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion > What I DON'T like is that if the TD had an MG, it could use THAT to change its > CA too... so the number of facing changes you can take is partially > determined by the number of MGs you have. Ick. To the modifiers for each CA change become cumulative, or do you "restart" after each firing of a MG? (ie. +3, +1, +1, then +1, +1, etc., or +3, +1,+1, then +3, +1, etc..) ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:38:11 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion > > > What I DON'T like is that if the TD had an MG, it could use THAT to change its > > CA too... so the number of facing changes you can take is partially > > determined by the number of MGs you have. Ick. > > To the modifiers for each CA change become cumulative, or do you "restart" > after each firing of a MG? (ie. +3, +1, +1, then +1, +1, etc., or +3, > +1,+1, then +3, +1, etc..) > > For each weapon you count the CA changes since last time you fired that weapon. EX: Change the VCA 2 hexspines and fire the MA. This gves +4 DRM. If you fire the MA again, this shot will have 0 DRM (barring other DRMs), but a shot with a MG still have a +4 DRM. So you don't get rid of your MA's DRM by firing the MG first. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:05:46 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: Re: Avaloncon > Hi, > Anyone seen the list for this year's scenarios used by round? I'm > in the mood for an editorial on the subject! 8) No, but it's probably as creative as last year's. :) > On this note, who's going and who's buying the beer. I will be attending Avaloncon once again, but I'm only planning to do some Open Gaming this year instead of the ASL torny. But I could change my mind like Brian has. So for now, if anyone's interested in a friendly Ladder game or just wants to drink beer, drop me a line. It's tough these days for me to get that much time (3.5 days) to devote to torny, especially one that I can't get excited over. Too structured for me, but I guess it has to be that way. I'll take WO please. > I know earlier I posted that I wasn't playing ASL, but I feel forced > to attempt yet another decent finish. Maybe this is my year? Doubtful. I knew that competitive side would change you mind. :) Later, Chuck > Oh well, at least I can hope that my AREA rating is under 1500 so I > can try for the "newbie" trophy! > > Brian ----- Date: 9 Jun 94 08:56:00 EST From: "Pete McCarthy" Subject: Ladder Game Wanted Hello all... I found some spare space in my house and am interested in starting another ladder game. I have the following available... BV, Paratrooper, Yanks, West of Alamein, Code of Bushido, Gung Ho, Croix de Guerre A scenario from any of these or any ASL annual (or another that you could send me) would be fine. Peter McCarthy ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: Re: trivia Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 9:40:35 EDT > That's easy! Next to that first cliff, put a second cliff that has a cave > for each possible subset of caves in the first cliff. With an SMC in each > cave of the second cliff, that's aleph zero SMCs in a hex. > > Now add a vehicle. > The problem is that you still have only countably many levels and therefore countably many caves. Whether you fill 6 hexsides or one hexside, it doesn't matter. You still only have countably many possible locations for caves, so I don't see how you can get uncountably many caves in a hex, although you can admittedly do odd thing with infinity (that's the beauty of my original solution ... give each SMC a LMG, it doesn't matter ... same number of counters. You can even give them all a platoon armed to the teeth, or for that matter an infinite number of unpossesed SW or horse counters, it still doesn't alter the solution). As for the math part, we know that all the possible subsets of a countably infinite set is still only countably infinite, correct? I seem to remember doing a proof of this. I'll have to try to reproduce it, because if it's true the whole thing falls apart. So then even if we have a countably infinite number of those sets, a countably infinite number of countably infinite sets is still countably infinite. ASL and counting theory ... what a combination! So Pat, are you going to be in Cleveland this weekend? Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:48:02 -0400 Subject: KGP Gun CA constraints Item Subject: Message text > Since things are slow, I am asking this without checking the rulebook. In > KGP during the initial scenario of CGI, the American Gun covered arcs are > randomly determined when initially revealed. What exactly does this mean and > can it be avoided? Does "revealed" mean when the Gun loses concealment? Well, the intent was (as I understand it) to enforce the confusion and hasty setup on the Americans. As for avoiding it, I don't think you can (and play fairly that is). If you were really serious about it I suppose you could take your first shot (revealing the gun) at an empty hex, but on the whole I'd say that was kinda cheap. > For > example, one of the 76Ls is HIP. I take a shot when no one can see the Gun > (in the processing placing an area acquisition). It still remains HIP since > no enemy unit has an LOS. Do I have to roll for covered arc before taking > the shot or not? I know the rules don't prevent this, but imho, this violates the spirit of the rule. If the intent is to penalize the American for a hasty, midnight setup, then this kind of psuedo-bore-sighting strikes me as rules-lawyering. IMHO of course, dlw ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:17:20 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: trivia Opps make that 3 hex building on a level x-hill w/ an infinite number of caves :-) mike ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 16:33:28 +0200 From: bas@phys.uva.nl (Bas de Bakker) Subject: countably infinite levels Chris Farrell writes: > As for the math part, we know that all the possible subsets of a > countably infinite set is still only countably infinite, correct? No. Given a set A, the set of all possible subsets of A is always larger than (cannot be brought into 1-1 correspondence with) A itself. However, if you can imagine a cliff with a countably infinite number of levels, what's wrong with a cliff with an uncountably infinite number of levels? Bas. ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:14:29 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: trivia answer Nope not good enough. Take your 2 story building , make it three by ssr, make your afv in bypass, a half-track fully loaded w/ passengers and riders in bypass, then throw in some calvary on the other side in bypass. (Does the Calvary count as infantry for overstacking purposes) BTW, you could replace the cellar w/ the market and put a pillbox below it and perform your various tricks. Does sewers and tunnels count? mike ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 11:04:26 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Berserker II tournament Guys, Here is what I have so far, is this information accurate? Brian FRENCH Patrik Manlig m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se GERMAN Paul F Ferraro pferraro+@pitt.edu GERMAN David Elder david@starfire.utias.utoronto.ca FRENCH Nils-Gunnar Nilsson etxngni@aom.ericsson.se FRENCH Chuck Powers cpowers@ceramics.gsfc.nasa.gov (L) GERMAN Jean-Luc Bechennec jlb@lri.lri.fr (W) FRENCH Mustafa Unlu mustafa+@CMU.EDU GERMAN Timothy Van Sant tvansant@access.digex.net> GERMAN Mike Seningen seningen@ross.com FRENCH Rusty Shields D4F@CU.NIH.GOV GERMAN Warren Smith w.smith93@genie.geis.com (W) FRENCH Alan ? abillsasl@aol.com (L) FRENCH Carl Fago cdf1@psu.edu GERMAN Dave Ripton ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com FRENCH Bruno Nitrosso Bruno.Nitrosso@der.edf.fr (W) GERMAN Mike Allexenberg mallexen@lafontaine.webo.dg.com (L) GERMAN Bret Hildebran HILDEBRANB@iccgcc.cs.hh.ab.com FRENCH Rich Campbell CAMPBELL@CAPSRV.JHUAPL.EDU FRENCH Don Hancock hancock@ono.geg.mot.com GERMAN Bill Jelinek wjelinek@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu GERMAN Gary Fortenberry s.hudman@genie.geis.com FRENCH Chuck Goetz c.goetz@genie.geis.com GERMAN Glenn Elliott gee@eskimo.com (W) FRENCH Brian Youse brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (L) FRENCH Les Kramer lesk@LNA03.lna.oz.au GERMAN Grant Linneberg N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:12:23 -0700 Subject: Re: countably infinite levels > Hoo boy! I'd say we've beaten this one to death. No? The answer to the trivia question is quite simple: You can place more counters in a hex than you would ever want to try and play with! So, anybody up for another scenario discussion. How about Tiger of Tuongoo? Or something from KGP, St. Eduard's Santiarium, perhaps? Or, how about a night scenario, using JR's excellent article as a guide? Anything would be preferable to the counter/hex discussion. Dade ----- From: kinney@isis.cgd.ucar.EDU (Rodney Kinney) Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 9:59:10 MDT Ole Boe writes: >What I would like to see is a rules change saying that a >vehicle may change its (V)CA a fixed number of times during the enemy MPh >irrespective of the number of MGs. How about this: A vehicle may make a Motion dr attempt (D?.??) in order to change its VCA without going into Motion. As soon as the Motion dr is failed, no further attempts may be made, but as long as the dr as successful, any number of such attempts may be made (one per unit entering the vehicle's LOS). rk ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 09:52:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "P. Gowdy" Subject: Re: countably infinite levels What if we took this trivia question seriously and made some sensible assumptions. Let's assume that you cannot have (un)countably many anythings (caves, building levels, etc). Furthermore, assume you only have all the counters in the game available. Relying on the rules in the literal sense what is the maximum number of counters you could have in a hex? I think stacking all the support weapons and ? counters is out. At least it should be. Info counters do not count. Pete (hopefully we can have an end to this thread) Gowdy ----- Subject: OLD FFE ISSUE From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 10:53:00 -0640 Howdy, Does anyone who will be at Summer Wars on Saturday or someone here in the Philadelphia area have the issue of FFE that discusses the American strategy in Bloody Red Beach? I have the article by Phil Pomerantz, "Protecting the Bloody Red Beach," and in it he mentions an article by "Gary" covering the USMC tactics (I assume this other article is also in FFE). We are planning to play this scenario. One of the players had a bad experience as the Americans and is not convinced that it can be won. You would do me a great favor if I could borrow the issue for a short time. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: "Grabow, Barry E." Subject: Revealed unit Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 13:07:00 PDT Hello all; I am a little confused about the recent KGP discussion reguarding the random direction of the American Guns. The rule says that the American Guns must make the random CA role "when initially revealed." What does revealed mean to you? It is never defined in the rule book and is only used in 12.34 when discussing the loss of concealment due to rolling a 5 or 6 (or just 6) when an enemy unit has LOS to the firing Gun. 1) Does revealed mean HIP unit firing without being placed on board? 2) Does revealed mean HIP unit firing and being placed on board without losing concealment? 3) Does revealed mean HIP unit firing and being placed on board while losing concealment? 4) Does revealed mean any concealed (HIP or not) unit that looses concealment? I guess I just don't understand this KGP rule at all. B ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: Re: trivia Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 13:28:00 EDT OK, it's been proven to me that Pat's method of having one cave for all the possible subsets of caves will produce an uncountably infinite number of caves. (Thanks JR) I guess I should have trusted Pat here, 'cause his math is a lot better than mine. Still, it's nice to see the proof. I still think you can't fit all those caves on one cliff face though, since the levels are discrete and I can always map them to the real number line (just mapping the cave to it's level). So I think you are going to have to try harder to get an uncountably infinite number of counters into one hex. Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 14:03:42 -0400 From: jos@biology.bu.edu (Joshua Seamon) Subject: D-Day ghosts and luck are all you need! As sort of a D-Day commemorative, a friend and I played "Backs to the Sea" after our regularly scheduled scenario. As the thinly spread Rangers, I had left a weak spot on my right flank, and my ever opportunistic opponent surged forward on the first turn. My only consolation came when his patience deserted him at the end of the MPh, and my lone squad took out an entire platoon plus his sole minus modifier leader. Nevertheless, it looked grim, and by the middle turns the German was poised at the edge of Board 7, with the usual broad carpet of squads and half-squads advancing through the shellholes. Also, his mighty 50 mm MTRs wreaked havoc on my forces shifting from the other flank, as his rapid advance forced my squads to go to the woods line at the board edge instead of the more forward shellholes. This is truly a scenario in which these diminutive mortars shine, as they just outrange the US squads and 60 mm MTRs. The temptation to concede was great, but the 50th anniversary made that unthinkable... Fortunately, a second US hero and two fanatic half squads bolstered the defenses, and someone found the ammo for the oft-broken US MTRs. Accurate fire from the latter began to whittle away the ranks of the enemy, who seemed disinclined to rally once broken. My MTRs were succesful enough that a 7-0 and a squad were able to switch back again to the far left flank, where they broke 2/3 of what had been the enemy MG/movement interdiction platoon. This proved just sufficient, as he had one less than the required total of squads on the cliff edge at game end. Of course, the unbroken Ranger squad and a half that remained were in complete control of the situation! Actually, except for his early impatience, my opponent played a virtually flawless game. I think only the spirit of D-Day caused his MGs to break at a crucial moment, while my remaining MTR was fixed at the start of the last turn. It had been years since I had played this scenario, and I'd forgotten how enjoyable it was - there are a number of options for both attacker and defender, and lots of room to maneuver. For those looking for a quick, pure infantry scenario, I highly recommend it. Cheers, Josh ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 15:13:35 -0400 Subject: KGP Gun constraints Item Subject: Message text Ross posted this just to me, but I'm opening it up to the list since there's nothing particularly inflamatory in it. > Dave Wetzel writes: > > >I know the rules don't prevent this, but imho, this violates the spirit of > >the rule. If the intent is to penalize the American for a hasty, midnight > >setup, then this kind of psuedo-bore-sighting strikes me as rules-lawyering. > [Ross Conklin replys:] >... My usual opponent frequently makes use of the > pseudo-boresighting technique in our games. I have no problem with it and > view it as a valid tactic. Whether it should be allowed in KGP is a > debatable point. I just want to be agonizingly clear on this, I don't have a problem with area fire to gain acquisition on a hex in general. It's just this specific case where there's in essense an SSR that intends to emulate a haphazard American gun-placement where it seems to me like rules-layering. > ...point is that the CA rule is very unclear because the CG was playtested > very little if at all (at least according to a previous post by Brian). If > AH wanted to simulate surprise they could have done it in many different > ways. No argument that the rule is unclear. I don't think the rule simulates surprise though. Just poor gun placement due to haste and the fact that the guns were placed at night in relatively unfamiliar terrain. At least that's how I remember it. > Strictly reading the rules implies the revealed means loss of concealment. > Personally, I like the second interpretation [first time the gun fires] > since it eliminates some strange possibilities. Any opinions? Well, I'm guessing it means the first time he fires, not the first time the gun fires and fails to keep HIP (Note: I'm assuming that Guns can be set up HIP in the first senario; don't have a rule book handy to check that out). Presumably the CA of the HIP gun is recorded somewhere. When it first fires roll the CA-change-dr and if he's lucky enough to really be facing the right way then make a note on the HIP sheet that this gun doesn't have to be checked again. If it does have to change CA, then it's revealed through loss of HIP. I wonder what the odds are that the CA won't have to change CA and keep HIP? > BTW, my opponent suggested the first > view by trying to use the rulebook to answer the question. Always a mistake ;^) And yes, again, it's all IMHO! ;^) -dlw ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 16:41:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Van Sant Subject: Postscript hexgrids? Any gurus out there know of PostScript code which will generate hexagonal grids? It would be great if the size of the hexes and of the grid, and linewidth could be easily altered (this is beginning to sound like a pipedream), but even a pointer to a basic hexgrid alone would be a big help to me. Thanks, Tim tvansant@access.digex.net ----- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 14:45:45 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: countably infinite levels Silly us -- we forgot about Melees!!! mike ----- From: Mats Persson Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 01:05:54 +0200 Subject: Re: Postscript hexgrids? >Any gurus out there know of PostScript code which will generate >hexagonal grids? A file called hex-grid.ps is now at ftp.lysator.liu.se in dir pub/asl. You can change the size of the hexes in the "/scale 6 def" line. There are also two new discussion files Hill_621 and Eastern_Gate. I make these files for most scenario discussions on this list. If I have missed anyone, please tell me. /Mats Persson ----- From: r.woloszyn@genie.geis.com Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 23:29:00 UTC Subject: Summer Wars I will be attending Summer Wars this weekend and am looking for matches in Hedgerow Hell or Paratrooper in order to continue my commemoration of D-Day. If you see this Doug you will know that I won't be available for Face-to-Face this weekend in Greensboro. ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 02:31:00 UTC Subject: ACon I spoke to russ gifford last week. He should have the scenario list next week, and when I get it, I'll post it here for all to see. There will be htree sections per round. The scenarios in each round will be of similar length (he hopes). One scetion will only have one scenario, but it will be a nonAH scenario. I believe one of them will be Panzer Marsch. There will be two rounds each day except Sunday, when there will be one (as last year). Phil ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:16:42 UTC+0100 From: Andres Riaguas Subject: math and ASL About countably infinite sets. The number or cardinal of a countably infinite set is called aleph zero. The following "infinite" is the cardinal of a set composed by all the possible subsets of a countably infinite set, and is called aleph one and is equivalent to the number of elements in the set of the real numbers. I don't like to store a countably infinite number of ASL counters so let's follow with the ASL without counting theory... //////////////////o-----o\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Andres Riaguas Dpto. Matematica Aplicada. Universidad de Zaragoza. Espan~a \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\o-----o////////////////// ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:59:05 +0200 From: oleboe@idt.unit.no Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion > >What I would like to see is a rules change saying that a > >vehicle may change its (V)CA a fixed number of times during the enemy MPh > >irrespective of the number of MGs. > > How about this: > > A vehicle may make a Motion dr attempt (D?.??) in order to > change its VCA without going into Motion. As soon as the Motion dr is > failed, no further attempts may be made, but as long as the dr as > successful, any number of such attempts may be made (one per unit > entering the vehicle's LOS). > > rk > I was quite sure that a vehicle may do only one Motion attempt pr turn. It may of course be one of the instances where my memory fails me, I'll better check that at home. > > > > For each weapon you count the CA changes since last time you fired > > that weapon. > > EX: Change the VCA 2 hexspines and fire the MA. This gves +4 DRM. If > > you fire the MA again, this shot will have 0 DRM (barring other DRMs), > > but a shot with a MG still have a +4 DRM. > > So you don't get rid of your MA's DRM by firing the MG first. > > > So a ROF shot by a weapon will not count the VCA/GunCA mods? Wow! I've > been messing this up big time! > > > Thanks, > Neal > Yes, but remember that in the first shot after changing the CA, the ROF is lowered by one (unless with some mortars). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say: Ole Boe Me and my head or oleboe@idt.unit.no Me and my body? ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Re: Changing VCA while not in motion Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 11:50:36 CETDST Hi, > > So a ROF shot by a weapon will not count the VCA/GunCA mods? Wow! I've > > been messing this up big time! > > > > > > Thanks, > > Neal > > > Yes, but remember that in the first shot after changing the CA, the ROF is > lowered by one (unless with some mortars). Doesn't this only apply to Non-vehicular NT Guns ? Klas Malmstrom ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 07:45:56 -0400 From: Chuck Powers Subject: ASL World Cup Two things: 1. In need another Australian for round 2 (the present round) of the ASL World Cup, ASAP. You will be playing Randy Nonay of Team Canada. 2. For those of you playing round 2 right now, how's it going? I haven't heard of a completed match yet. Chuck ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 11:02 EDT From: Dan Sullivan Subject: ASL group in the Boston area ? Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knows if there is a ASL gaming group in the Boston area? Or if anyone from the Boston area might like to try and form one ? Dan djsullivan@bbn.com ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:42:00 -0400 From: "mark (m.a.) turnbull" Subject: re:math and ASL In message "math and ASL", 'riaguas@cc.unizar.es' writes: >About countably infinite sets. > The number or cardinal of a countably infinite set is called aleph zero. >The following "infinite" is the cardinal of a set composed by all the possible >subsets of a countably infinite set, and is called aleph one and is equivalent >to the number of elements in the set of the real numbers. Uh-oh. I think I just failed my MTC (math task check), or perhaps that is an MaMC (math morale check) ! Mark Turnbull ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 11:34:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: WWII tank simulator For all you armor fanatics on the list... I finally saw an add for this. It is "Across the Rhine" by Microprose. Add says you can control single tanks (either side), or platoons or more. If the lead time is typical, the add will have beaten the actual product to the presses by 3 to 6 months. If it is anything like an improved version of the same company's "M1 Tank Platoon", it should be one fun product. ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 09:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Glenn E. Elliott" Subject: Origins Hi Guys... I will be attending Origins with Wizards of the Coast this year, and even though I probably won't have time for any ASL I would really like to put some faces with all these email addresses! I'll be running Magic tournaments on the main gaming floor most of the weekend, and any of the other Magic judges and referees should be able to point me out. Drop by and say hi; I'd love to meet you! Glenn Elliott Coordinator, Research & Development Wizards of the Coast, Inc. ----- From: jfgrimes@netcom.com (John Grimes) Subject: Opponent needed for ASLUG16 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:24:08 -0700 (PDT) I have been staring at this scenario (ASLUG 16 - Bunshin Gogeki) for much too long to keep from playing it. Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone locally to play FTF with this one. Is there anyone out there interested in playing this thing for ladder points? (I had another game finish up and have the space....) John ----- From: "Shields, Rusty" Subject: Pittsburgh, PA Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 13:26:00 edt Hey guys! I will be in the Pittsburgh area next weekend and I'd like to try to get a little FTF action while I'm there. I know we have a couple list members from Pittsburgh, so any of you guys up for a little action? Rusty Shields shields@ssims.nci.nih.gov ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: newsgroup Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 14:10:18 EDT Guys - OK, I know this has come up before, and I would like to hash it out one more time, in light of a few recent conversations. This has been prompted by my talking to several of my friends who have recently de-subscribed to the ML, saying that it was just too much effort to wade through, but said that they would definately read if this was a newsgroup. The point is that for most of us out in netland, our newsreaders are much more intelligent than our mailers. For public access sites like the Cleveland freenet, people can actually sort through news fairly efficiently, while dealing with the large volumes of mail this list frequently generates is almost impossible. Personally, I don't see the advantage the current format has over a newsgroup. The only thing I can think of is that some sites receive news and not mail. Can somebody quantify this for me? ASL would be in the rec heirarchy and so would be carried by almost every site unlike a group in the alt hierarchy. Can somebody also tell me what would be the obstacles in setting up a machine as a news-mail gateway? The advantages of a newsgroup would be non-trivial, including larger circulation; a lot of ASL players don't read r.g.b because they aren't interested in other board games; seeing a group rec.games.asl would prompt people to subscribe, while how to join the ML is a little less readily obvious; people won't de-subscribe due to excessive mail, just because it's cluttering their mailbox which they use for real works also; plus the aforementioned players who would read a newsgroup but won't deal with a mailing list (I doubt there are many people who would feel the reverse if they had news available). I think maybe the point that we use our mailboxes for real work also is important; if we have 20 ASLML messages a day, which we have to sort through to get at our mail requesting copies of programs and requests for system maintainance and whatever, it's going to prompt people who use their account for work to de-subscribe. It's easy for many of us as unix-gurus and other highly computer- literate people to say, "well, just use this and that feature of elm to sort your mail, and if you have emacs you can pipe your mail into rn", but many people are either not going to have access to tools like elm or a pipe, let alone access to the expertise to come up with these solutions. For most normal users news is *by far* a more rational way to deal with the level of traffic we frequently generate. Anyway, mail me your opinions (so we can reduce extranneous traffic :-), and I'll summarize to the group. Thanks, Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 14:14:58 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Newsgroup Chris writes... (paraphrased) > Why no newsgroup? One easy reason is the 35-40 people on here from services which don't (to the best of my knowledge) do news. GEnie, AOL. Another reason for me personally, is that I don't care how much mail I get, but I do tend *not* to read news very often, unless sex or bestiality is in the title! 8) (JUST KIDDING) Everyone, nearly, gets email. A lot of sites restrict news. Even rec groups get restricted (sorry, it is true). I think an exploder is more personal, gets quicker response, and (oops, forgot my third point). Why I wouldn't mind a newsgroup? I could then quit my job without the fear of there being no ASL newsgroup. DO I care? No, I'm not in a rush to quit my job. BTW, in the two-three years (how long *has* it been?) that I've run the list, I've had something like 20 people ask off due to traffic. Total. I just don't think it is a major deterrent. Also, Chris, learn your mailer. There are easier, better, faster ways of taking care of mail. Personally, I just use "mail" with all the stinking tilde escapes and the whole obsolete package. Of course, I can then use mail on any unix machine I sit down at. Matter of taste, really. JMO, Brian (sorry to post, but this is relevant to the group, as opposed to math theory as to how many caves can fit on the head of a pin. Or whatever that topic was) 8) ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 14:34:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jimmie M. Raines" Subject: Re: newsgroup Chris, I think your points on this subject are good by and large. The biggest problem I see is that some sites (especially like Genie and CompuServe) don't get USENET bboards. I think the best option I heard is to mirror the mailings to the ASLML to a bboard in the rec.games hierarchy. That way people could choose how they want to access it. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim Raines, Doctoral Student in Chemistry/Biophysics Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: I'm in graduate school, what do you expect? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 14:43:34 EDT From: ut00894@volvo.com (Doug Maston) Subject: News Groups Chris, We do not have access to Usenet. Making this a news group would cause me to lose my access to the ASL guys. So naturally, I'm not in favor of this. I see no advantage in having a newsgroup, but then I'm on a Unix system, and have a pretty smart news reader. Just my .02 worth. Doug ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 11:51:50 PDT From: climber@rio.myra.com (Craig Limber) Subject: ASL newsgroup I agree with Brian that this ASL stuff is left better as a mailing list. However, I have one request: putting ASL as the first three letters in the subject would allow me (perhaps others as well) to quickly identify which mail items are related to ASL. It would also allow fancy mail readers to automatically sift the messages into a folder for later parusal. I find I don't read most of the letters that come across but the occasional one does catch my eye, especially new scenarios, the occasional playback and the wonderful scenario win-loss database. Brian, is there a way for the mailer to automagically prefix ASL onto the subject? Craig climber@myra.com ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 12:01:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "P. Gowdy" Subject: Re: Newsgroup I agree, keep this discussion over email and not a newsgroup. I find that dealing with newsgroups is a pain and it is easy to sort mail or pipe it. One thing we could do is reduce the amount of trivial mail that this ASL ML generates (e.g., how many caves can fit in a hex and the meaning of countable infinity - sheesh!). Also, there are often many rules related questions that the mailer could easily answer for him/ her self (in my opinion) by simply spending some time looking at the rules. But in all most of the stuff that gets posted is worthy of discussion. But I digress... I vote to keep the ML and not move to a newsgroup. Pete Gowdy ----- Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 12:46:14 -0700 From: Steven Lin "Craig" == Craig Limber writes: > I agree with Brian that this ASL stuff is left better as a mailing > list. However, I have one request: putting ASL as the first three > letters in the subject would allow me (perhaps others as well) to > quickly identify which mail items are related to ASL. It would also > allow fancy mail readers to automatically sift the messages into a > folder for later parusal. I find I don't read most of the letters > that come across but the occasional one does catch my eye, > especially new scenarios, the occasional playback and the wonderful > scenario win-loss database. > Brian, is there a way for the mailer to automagically prefix ASL > onto the subject? > Craig climber@myra.com I think it would be _far_ easier to have Brian's mail exploder add a single line, such as "X-List-Name: asl", to all messages posted to the list. Most smart mail readers can be configured to sort on a single keyword in the headers. This removes the responsibility of adding "ASL" to every message header from the author and assigns it to a machine. The advantage is obvious. Steve ----- Subject: Re: Newsgroup Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 12:55:41 -0700 From: Steven Lin "P" == P Gowdy writes: > I agree, keep this discussion over email and not a newsgroup. I > find that dealing with newsgroups is a pain and it is easy to sort > mail or pipe it. While mail software can sort mail into folders, I don't believe it is capable of sorting mail based on threads. Being able to follow a thread is one of the few things I really like about reading news. > One thing we could do is reduce the amount of trivial mail that this > ASL ML generates (e.g., how many caves can fit in a hex and the > meaning of countable infinity - sheesh!). I agree wholeheartedly. > Also, there are often many rules related questions that the mailer > could easily answer for him/ her self (in my opinion) by simply > spending some time looking at the rules. But in all most of the > stuff that gets posted is worthy of discussion. But I digress... I > vote to keep the ML and not move to a newsgroup. You should also consider the possibility that having a newsgroup might actually promote interest in ASL. > Pete Gowdy Steve ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 16:25:29 EDT > I think it would be _far_ easier to have Brian's mail exploder add a > single line, such as "X-List-Name: asl", to all messages posted to the > list. Most smart mail readers can be configured to sort on a single > keyword in the headers. Aaraargh! This is exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid. The mass of internet using people who don't have intelligent mailers can't take advantage of this! Anybody who has access through AOL, a freenet, or some other community based system which has a "user-friendly" front end (and thus no access to man pages) is still hosed. Take a step back a second. The people who receive this list are not the people who currently have a problem. My point is that I would very much like to see the appeal of this list *broadened* for the accomodation of many, many people for whom news is simply easier and more accessable (after all, the primary influx of subscribers comes from people who read the r.g.b faq, right? How else do you find out about the ASLML if not from a newsgroup? Primarily?) Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 17:11:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup All the points raised have been valid and good (for bothe sides). A problem with newsgroups that has not been raised is the lag in response to a posting. It can take some folks days for their post to show up. I don't know why, but it has happened to me. Similarly, I thinks the newsgroup posting do not filter in one at a time. It seems they have to "accumulate", then they become available to read. Does anyone know about this for sure? ***************************** Paul F. Ferraro Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA ***************************** ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 19:06:45 -0400 From: Stewart R King Subject: Virtual Face-to-Face Play Hi group, Mats Persson and I played Chapelle St. Anne (from KGP I) over the ASL Multi-User Dimension on mud.lysator.liu.se 2000. The scenario took us about six hours to play, or at least twice as long as face-to-face. However, it was easily quicker than an email game! Moreover, the interactivity of the format was equivalent to face-to-face. There was no need to compromise with the mutuality of the ASL system in order to fit the demands of email. The MUD has a few annoying features: 1. when both people talk at once, it can get confusing. This is inherent in the program, and requires discipline to not send when the other person is writing. 2. We lost track of some units at one point, just like an email game. Mats is working on a table where the locations, possessions, and status of units will be listed and updated automatically. I guess it will need to have two faces to take HIP, Concealment, and so forth into account. 3. The main portion of the MUD is used for role-playing gaming. The ASL room is located behind a church, and occasionally role-playing gamers wandered in and disturbed us, or, more often, their shouts could be heard from next door (they shout in church?) They seemed polite enough, though. You get to the MUD by telnetting to "mud.lysator.liu.se 2000". You have to type in an alias for yourself, and a password. As soon as you enter the MUD, type "asl" and you will be transported to the asl rooms. If anybody else is there, you can "say" to send messages to them, "DR" or "dr" to roll dice, or "ift x+/-y" to make an attack. I don't know if the iift is in the MUD, too. Oh, the scenario...Mats was the Germans and I was the Americans. I put my two elite HS'es out front with the anti- vehicle weapons, hoping for a shot at his halftracks, but he disembarked out of range. As he moved up, I threw the DC at one of his squads, hoping for a kill but only breaking him. He surrounded the other HS and captured the BAZ. My defense went OK through turns two and three, but on my turn three I made the mistake of going into melee with my leader and two squads against one and one-half SS squads. We failed to destroy them, and then the other German squads were able to move almost at will. They broke my melee'ers in Advancing Fire in their turn, and then I was left with one GO squad in the church. It managed to stand off the Germans with heroic ROF for its MMG, killing a squad and a half of Germans in the process. However, the heroics were in vain as my routed two squads were kept DM'ed by Mat's alert troopers and chased out of the victory area. Since the Germans win if the Americans have <= one MMC in the victory area, my squad was not enough (too bad I wasn't the Finns, or I could have deployed! These victory conditions should be changed to "squad-equivalent"). By the way, oh record-meister, you can consider this a report for your statistics. Anyhow, I encourage all and sundry to try out the MUD. I'm going to attempt an alternative form of "virtual face-to- face" as soon as I get information back from my computer office on wether they can implement an "IRC." I'll be sending a report on that soon. Enjoy! Stewart ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 19:20:32 -0400 From: Stewart R King Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup > My point is that I would very much like to see > the appeal of this list *broadened* for the accomodation of many, many people > for whom news is simply easier and more accessable (after all, the primary > influx of subscribers comes from people who read the r.g.b faq, right? > How else do you find out about the ASLML if not from a newsgroup? Primarily?) > I found out about the list from another gamer. However, I agree with the earlier poster on this thread who suggested that the postings here could be mirrored to a rec.games.asl newsgroup for those interested in receiving it that way. What do you think, Brian? Stewart King ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 20:01:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Robert Jablow Subject: re:math and ASL On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, mark (m.a.) turnbull wrote: > In message "math and ASL", 'riaguas@cc.unizar.es' writes: > > >About countably infinite sets. > > The number or cardinal of a countably infinite set is called aleph zero. > >The following "infinite" is the cardinal of a set composed by all the possible > >subsets of a countably infinite set, and is called aleph one and is equivalent > >to the number of elements in the set of the real numbers. > > Uh-oh. I think I just failed my MTC (math task check), or perhaps that is > an MaMC (math morale check) ! > > Mark Turnbull > > Well, aleph one is the next cardinal after aleph null. However, the proposition that it is the cardinal of the set of all real numbers (equivalently, it is the cardinal of the power set of the integers, the set of all subsets of the integers) is the Continuum Hypothesis, and is independant of the usual axioms of set theory. In other words, It is consistent with the other axioms to assume its truth (Godel), and it is consistent to assume its falsity (Cohen). See a good set theory book for details. I suggest Thomas Jech, _Set Theory_. Eric Robert Jablow "We'll send him cheezy programs, Reston, VA the worst we can find, la-la-la." ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 20:15:18 CDT From: Andrew McCulloh Subject: Trivia I will resist the urge to comment on the various infinites floating around this discussion to remind one and all to not forget the following types of counters, which although they may be called informational actually are necessary for play. Minefields (known), Smoke & WP, Wire, Panjis, Paddies, trail breaks, Hillock crest, veh smoke, a gun (or many guns - can guns be overstacked - I forget!) etc. and about an uncountable number i forgot... Andrew ----- Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 23:08:11 -0400 (EDT) From: EDANGLETON@delphi.com Subject: Re: Trivia Let it be hereby resolved, that in the course of further ASL enterprise, anyone who posts a trivia question such as how many counters can you stack in a hex, be strapped to the out-going end of 88mm AT gun. Besides, the answer can't be any form of infinity, as that would exceed the counter limit. :) Of course if anyone wants to try it out, let me know and I'll buy all the AH stock I can get my hands on, cause you're gonna make 'em very profitable. ED ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 07:18:27 EDT Subject: KGP, Avaloncon A few days ago there was some discussion about CA on a single lane woods rood. I'm forget who brought it up, including some answers from AH. As I read the KGP SSR 7 only P5.122 (of the P5.1 rules) applies. If a vehicle wishes to change CA he is free to do so, doubling the cost if across a non-road hexside (B6.43). An interesting sidelight (as I was looking up all of these referenced rules) is the WRECK removal rule D10.42. As I read this, if you push the wreck, it is removed from play (D10.4). Where did the wreck go? I can understand clearing the road, but the wreck just vanishes! Since this is the only feasible way to clear a single lane woods road, (trying to kindle the woods doesn't cut it in my mind) I assume there are/will be many disappearing tanks during the KGP campaign game. On to the "revealing guns" SSR. My ASLRB has changes to the A12.34 rule from the 92 Errata. It talks of "revealed" in the sense that concealment is lost with either a 5 or 6 based on the range/LOS of enemy units. Unfortunatley I can't picture a gun firing at the enemy for a few rounds, finally rolling a 5/6 on the colored die and suddenly having its CA changed. By the way the wording of the exception is written, IMHO revealing was meant to mean "loses HIP" or something like that. The exception discusses the case where HIP is retained, when the CA is needed for attack resolution. Now despite all of this I have to agree with Dave Wetzel that the intent was probably different than the exact wording of the rules. I would say that the first time you fire, regardless of target, you determine CA as per SSR I.3 regardless or your HIP/Concealment status. The exception (there always is one) would be as covered in SSR I.3. The only advice I'd have for German players is attack swiftly, that way very few of the guns are out of LOS when they take their first shot. Lets face it, how many people have played a complete campaign? I have know idea how this rule affects the entire campaign. From what I can see, this looks at a high level strategy view kind of like TRC. The Germans must take alot of ground in the initial scenarios and then hold off the superior number of American reinforcements. Given the five additional AT platoons available to the American player, I would think a few sacrificed AT guns for a few vehicles would be a good trade. Besides, AT guns are not the easiest things to destroy, even with a Panther. Wellll, I would rather have a Panther than a Sherman! The loss of a few Panthers will hurt the Germans more than the loss of the AT guns will hurt the Americans. Question: For the initial scenario the sides are given CPPs for purchases. Are these reduced by a DR as per P8.616? Or are these the actual points available for both players (unmodified)? Question: The initial setup locations for the Americans are "within 3 hexes of any _building_ hex(es) with a coordinate >=19 but <=34." Does this mean Z37 and K16 are valid setup locations? ie is the coordinate limit on the building hex, from which you can count the three hexes with no coordinate limitations? Next (to last) on my list is the attempt by Brian to become a "newbie". Unfortunately I replied to him directly by mistake. That should classify me as a "newbie". I tried to point out that even with 3 straight top ten finishes, the "newbie" (Alan Saltzman) finished higher than Brian. Brian may have some competition for the "newbie" title. And finally, on the Avaloncon topic, I am interested in finding ladder opponents for the tournament and for Wednesday evening. Russ Gifford seemed to not mind people choosing opponents as long as they were "close" to the correct matchings. This was more prevalent for the afternoon matches when things are not quite as clear-cut as far as matchups are concerned. Also I will be in town around four Wednesday and imagine a group of internet ladder ASLers taking over a room for a pre-tournament warmup, perhaps drawing even more players into the ladder (And more money for the Laddermeister!) [I get my usual cut of the take Tom] 8) If you will be there and are interested, just send me e-mail and I will keep a list to be posted mid-July for everyone to peruse. Include the day you are available to start play (WED or THUR). If anyone is staying Sunday, I _may_ be able to convince my wife that I meant all day Sunday was for ASL. ----- Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 07:40:11 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup >influx of subscribers comes from people who read the r.g.b faq, right? >How else do you find out about the ASLML if not from a newsgroup? Primarily?) > >Chris I found out from the ASL Annual, which said there was a group on GEnie. Then I joined GEnie and found from them there was an Internet group. So here I am! Davidb ----- Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 08:44:49 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: Re: KGP wreck removal >As I read this, if you push the wreck, it is removed from >play (D10.4). Where did the wreck go? I can understand >clearing the road, but the wreck just vanishes! Since this >is the only feasible way to clear a single lane woods road, >(trying to kindle the woods doesn't cut it in my mind) >I assume there are/will be many disappearing tanks during the >KGP campaign game. Unfortunately, SSR Rule KGP10. Explicitely states: "A Burnt-Out Wreck cannot be Scrounged, set Ablaze or removed from play as per D10.4" Sorry. You will have to find some other way to get around your wrecks (like during the refit phase?). As far as I understand, the wrecks in D10.4 are merely pushed to a tactically unimportant position (in a ditch, next to a tree, perhaps). So even though the wreck is still "there", it will not effect play. Otherwise, AGC might have to supply a bunch of "dead man" counters davidb ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 13:19:00 UTC Subject: Stuff Alan, We went over the single lane road business with MacNamara at the Open in January (someone was playing Panthers in the Mist). The sinle lane roads in the woods are not meant for 40ton monsters to gambol on like Jeeps. The tanks CAN'T change CA across a non-road hexside. This means that there are some intersections that you can't make the turn at and will have to drive through the woods to get by. Also, sometimes you have to make the CA change before entering the intersection. Foir example, if entering KK26 from KK27, you can't turn. you will be facing either hexspine 1 or 6, and need to turn to either 2 or 5 to leave. You cant do it as hexsides 2 and 6 are woods, so you can't make the CA change. If entering KK26 from LL26, you must change CA to 5 from 6 prior to enetring the hex. Once in KK26 you can't do it. I hoipe this helps. Phil (I remember my loss to you in Herisson at ACon last year, including the 4 turn melee in the main building. I'll see you agin, I hope.) ----- Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 12:45:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup > >influx of subscribers comes from people who read the r.g.b faq, right? > >How else do you find out about the ASLML if not from a newsgroup? Primarily?) > > > >Chris > > I found out from the ASL Annual, which said there was a group on GEnie. Then I > joined GEnie and found from them there was an Internet group. So here I am! A note of thanks to Bill Thomson, who placed an add in the General for email SL. I corresponded with him and he kooked me up with the SL-list and the ASL-list. Any one else "find" the list through Bill? ----- Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 11:01:23 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) Subject: This is Brent..... Hello out there to all of the ASL ers who must be having withdrawels without me around to complain about Avalon safely in Colorado Springs and it has surpassed our expectations. We found a nice place on the East sie of town and we are both working hard and keeping busy with local events. I have had an opportunity to get together with Tom Huntington - I am using his logon for this message - and we are playing occasionally. (sorry Munda Mash) when he was out here for a conference. Tom has said that the ASL Annual isn't coming out in the foreseeable future. That must mean that T. Rex is working on a top secret project. I guess I can wait for an index. Fussing aside, I would like to get in touch with Gary Fortenberry to give him my change of address - assuming that ASLUG exists...... remember I haven't been on the list. I hope everyone is doing well , my address is Brent Byrnes 3355 North Academy Coloraro Springs, CO 80917 (719) 573-4752 Hopefully I will get my act together and get back on the list soon. Best Regards, Brent ----- From: ahabig@riscgs1.lngs.infn.it (Alec Habig) Subject: Re: ASL newsgroup Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 19:41:11 +0200 (DFT) Craig Limber writes : > > I agree with Brian that this ASL stuff is left better as a mailing list. > However, I have one request: putting ASL as the first three letters in > the subject would allow me (perhaps others as well) to quickly identify > which mail items are related to ASL. It would also allow fancy mail readers > to automatically sift the messages into a folder for later parusal. > I find I don't read most of the letters that come across but the occasional > one does catch my eye, especially new scenarios, the occasional playback > and the wonderful scenario win-loss database. Here's the elm filter command I use that automagically saves all (well, 99%) of the ASL list mails into their own folder. This way, I can treat the list like a newsgroup - just go to that folder whe I want to read about ASL, instead of getting ASL posts mixed in with the rest of my mail. Here's the line one needs if one has elm and filter running : # Filter Rules if (to asl@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov) then save "/u/ahabig/Mail/newasl" Alec ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 16:28:18 EDT Subject: re: KGP Dave Smith responded to my wreck question and rightly pointed to the SSR. Ouch! I need to read more thoughly. Phil replyed to the CA change on single lane roads with a Mac sez. I need more than this! I can understand where Mac/Phil are coming from, but I can't see it in the rules. If that was intended, why not add the appropriate wording to P5.123 to specifically prevent the CA change. Or better yet, include it in the SSR. Without it, it remains another Mac sez and a rather large omission from the rules. What about the rest of the ladder. How many people play the no VCA on non-road hexsides way? And if so, what led you to play this way? Have I missed another rule? Am I just another closet rules lawyer? Am I rambling too much? Alan Bills (Phil, I also remember the massive melee which effectively stalled all hopes of a German victory, unfortunately my dice/strategy did not prevail as often as I would have liked during the rest of the tournament) ----- Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 18:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: SMITDV@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU Subject: getting onto the MUD? Hi. I read with interest about the asl room in the MUD at mud.lysator.liu.se. However, when I tried to gain access, I was continually beset with a barrage of "incorrect login" messages. I guess I am not sure how to gain access. If anyone has been able to get in, could they please email me how they did it? Thanks Davidb Smith ----- From: jfgrimes@netcom.com (John Grimes) Subject: ASLUG16 Ladder Opponent Wanted! Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 23:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Hi! After staring at this scenario for some time, I'm looking for an Email player to fight against. If anyone is interested, let me know. I know the scenario is rather large, but I think it could be done.... John ----- From: ABillsASL@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jun 94 07:22:20 EDT Subject: re: KGP Did I goof or what? B6.431 clearly states all of the single lane restrictions. I appologize to all for my stupidity and to Phil for questioning his understanding of the rules. This leads to the same question that was asked of Mac/AH. Is it legal for a vehicle [EXC: Motorcycles] to enter StKK26 from StKK27, StKK20 from either StKK21 or StLL20? And if so, can the VCA be changed? I do not have access to the FAQ so I can't look for the answers given awhile back. If Don is reading this, please send me a copy of the latest FAQ. In response to the wreck removal, SSR KGP10 addresses BURNT-OUT WRECKS. This makes some sense to me. A burnt-out wreck probably will not move easily and a normal wreck would be easier to push. Of course any American wreck has a high likelyhood of being burnt-out and any German wreck has a high likelyhood of being too heavy to push by the Americans. Alan Bills ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Sun, 12 Jun 94 13:44:00 UTC Subject: KGP Alan, There is nothing to prevent a vehicle from enetring KK26 from KK27, or KK20 from KK21; the problem is getting out of there once you are in. You can change VCA, but must make a Bog check to do so, or you can drive out through the woods with a Bog check. I think that you could make the VCA change in LL20, as it is a paved road hex, and as such, not subject to the single-lane bridge restrictions The other important point about sinle lane bridges, is that in a single MPh, vehicular traffic can only be in one direction. Phil ----- Subject: NIGHT ARTICLE From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 94 11:28:00 -0640 Howdy, Someone said they were going to upload my night article to a library on Genie. It suddenly occurs to me to ask: is there a lot of interesting stuff in the Genie on-line library for ASL? Is there anyway the internet people could "raid" the library, i.e. make the files available to the internet. We could place the stuff on the ftp servers to get access to it. Could we download the stuff on the servers to Genie, while we're at it? So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra) Subject: Air Support Question Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone, I'm playing "Grabbing Gavutu" [from the 93b Annual; Hi Neal! ;)] and I have the following questions about Air support: 1) Do I HAVE to have a SMC/MMC/vehicle as a target, or can I choose a building or an entrenchment instead? I ask because with all of the HIP that the Japanese player receives, there are no "units" in sight at the start of the game (all those caves!) 2) If the answer to 1) is 'no', is the idea then to try and use the air support during the Defensive Fire Phase of the Japanese Player Turn? It's complicated because by SSR the Japanese player can't fire until his Rout Phase in the Second Player turn - by then my FB's will be long gone (avail. during turn 1 only). Thanks for your help! -Nadir ----- Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 21:10:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Summer Wars Wrap Up Just got back from ASL Summer Wars in Harrisburg, PA. It's been an annual event for at least 4 years now. Attendance was about 35 or so. Not great but adequate. Kevin Meyer did a superb job. When I left, the winner was still undecided. I'll pass on the results when Kevin posts them to GEnie. Brian noted that it must be a sign of our declining hobby that, as he was whining and winning in our game of Totsugeki! at midnight on Saturday, only four games were being played. Used to be that there would be at least double that number that time of night and some hardy souls were getting ready to start Hill 621. Either a sign of the decline or age catching up with the players. :-) At any rate, I did well at 4-1. First I played Tom McCorry. We played Jean Luc's version of Kakazu Ridge (not to be confused with Dan Dolan's scenario of the same name.) First time either of us played that scenario. I won as the American's but it was looking bleak in the middle of the game. It came down to the last turn. I think that the Americans had best just reinforce the hill they are on and when the Japanese come at you, try to make them pay at least a 1:1 ratio your losses to his. You'll win every time if you can do this. Lots of smoke and WP floating around the map. Game 2 was against Chuck Goetz, part of the Baltimore crowd. We played another new one, Hart Attack from ASLUG. I had the British. Some good smoke from the OBA, tough breaks on the part of the German morale, and misreading of the overlays, confusing Orchard overlays for Open Ground overlays, led to the Brit's overrunning the town. Not too many good places for the German to put his 88. Tough on the Allied side having Inexperienced crews in the 5 Grants. Good scenario. Game 3 was against Mike McGrath. We chose to play Ramsey's Charge, another ASLUG scenario. I had the Japanese. Mike couldn't get his cavalry where he wanted them and the Japanese reinforcements swept over the foot bridge to guard the 2nd of the two victory hexes. A tough break on Mike's dice led to his 9-2 gacking an NMC along with the two squads that were with him. He never got close to that 2nd victory hex. Another good scenario...requires a lot of thought on the attack by the US player. Game 4 against Brian, Totsugeki! Second time playing it for me. Other time I played was against Brian with me as the Japanese. This time I took the Chinese. The Japanese were getting gunned up pretty good and all the shooting the Japanese did was pretty much ineffectual due to bad rolls on Brian's part. This lasted to the middle of the game. Then, he started inflicting some morale checks and the Chinese couldn't pass a morale check to save their life. The Chinese were down to one leader, the Japanese had none...they didn't need any. The Chinese Dare Death squads dared death a little too much and didn't do squat. Came down to the last turn, last CC. I missed winning when I only inflicted casualties in the HtH with a 5 rather than killing everyone with a 4. Fifth game on Sunday against Matt Noah. We chose Desert Citadel, yet another ASLUG scenario. I had the Italians. I didn't figure out this scenario until about the third turn. At the same time, I started getting gunned up when all the vehicle dust and smoke went away due to Gusts. This led to some rash action on my part that turned out just fine. Had an Italian squad motorcycle up to the British positions, weathering all fire at him. Then, in Matt's PFPh, the guy shrugs off an 8-1 shot, gets nuked on a K/2 result on another 8-1 shot, the resulting halfsquad breaks, takes the Bail Out NMC and gets HoB. Ends up Battle Hardening. Matt's mortar then inflicts a 1MC which results in another HoB...Berserk! That half-squad ended up killing another halfsquad and a crew. All my Semovente's malfunctioned their MA. I got one round of smoke. The only thing the AFV's did for me was to run into the hex with the HMG, another hex with the mortar and an additional squad, and yet another trench with a squad. These three tanks weathered many CC attacks and allowed my Italians to motor up to the British lines. Matt ended up resigning as things were looking bad for the Brits and his ride was about to leave. Another good scenario...motorcycles and light dust are your friends. ----- Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 21:43:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: NIGHT ARTICLE In message Sun, 12 Jun 94 11:28:00 -0640, jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) writes: > is there a lot of interesting stuff in the Genie on-line > library for ASL? Not really. Carlo and lysator are much better sources. > Is there anyway the internet people could "raid" the library Already done back when carlo and lysator started up the ASL archives. The GEnie folk on the net are constantly on the snoop to ensure widest distribution of stuff. BTW, JR, good to meet you at Summer Wars. ----- Date: Sun, 12 Jun 94 22:49:19 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: ORIGINS 94 Origins 94 is being held at the Santa Clara Convention Center in San Jose from 7-10 July. They're having a 2 day ASL tournament which starts Friday and winds up Saturday night. If I read their pre-registration booklet right, it looks like 4 day admittance to the convention is $25, and it will cost another $15 for two days of ASL. Anyone out their know anything about this puppy? Could it really be worth $40 to play two days of ASL? I've never been to a convention or tournamnent before, but this one's only 90 minutes away. If anyone knows anything more specific about the Origins ASL tourney, I'd appreciate more info. Dave ----- From: Mats Persson Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 13:13:37 +0200 Subject: Re: getting onto the MUD? >However, when I tried to gain access, I was continually beset with a barrage of >"incorrect login" messages. Your name was probably already in use in the mud. Choose another name. Maybe I start a dedicated ASL multi-user dimension, where players can chat online or play ASL. If there is enough interest. /Mats Persson ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 08:22:00 -0400 From: Doug.Williamson@DL-NOTES.SMTRW.LANGATE.sprint.com >A note of thanks to Bill Thomson, who placed an add in the General for >email SL. I corresponded with him and he kooked me up with the SL-list >and the ASL-list. Any one else "find" the list through Bill? Yep! I found the list through the exact same path. Thanks Bill! Doug Williamson ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 08:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "DALE A. WETZELBERGER" Subject: Contacts in Bologna, Italy Hello, I am going on a business trip to Bologna, Italy from June 19 through June 24. I was wondering if there was any ASL players in the area interested in a face-to-face game. Dale Wetzelberger Baltimore, Maryland ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Re: SL-list Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 15:15:35 CETDST Hi, everyone > >A note of thanks to Bill Thomson, who placed an add in the General for > >email SL. I corresponded with him and he kooked me up with the SL-list > >and the ASL-list. Any one else "find" the list through Bill? Anybody out there have the adress to the SL-list ? I have quite alot of official Q&A on the SL system (asked when I used to play SL, etc.) and I thought it might interest somebody. -- Klas Malmstrom ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 10:28:31 EDT Guys - Well, I guess most of you posted to the entire list anyway, so there's no point in me summarizing the responces. There were at least three people who said we definately need a newsgroup, but the majority sentiment seems to be to preserve the status quo; setting up a mirror site seems to be too much work, otherwise it would have been done by now (this is not a new idea). Single largest group of respondents said they do not have news access (maybe 5 or 6 people). A non-trivial number of people believe that we have a very nice group here, what would we want to open it up to more people for? I dunno, now that we have a traffic larger than many rec newsgroups, I was kind of hoping maybe our time had come to take a more official spot in the ether-world, as well as getting the ASLML out of my mailbox :-) I remember when we first went to this format back when Bob Ksumoto was running it out of Chicago and we had a rash of unsubscribes when people woke up to 70+ messages in their box. I guess all the people who had trouble sorting through 100 messages every time they logged in are already gone. I suppose if I had a little more spare time maybe I would try to start a newsgroup despite a very mixed response, just because it seems like the correct thing to do. However, I leave this as an exercise to the reader. I must confess that the ASLML has now become more trouble than it's worth for me. (don't worry, I sent the unsub message to asl-request :-) Thanks to Brian for doing a great job running this list for the past years, and for stepping up to a rather thankless position; thanks to John Foley for his interim editorship and being a great guy, and thanks to JR for all those rules answers. Thanks to Will Scarvie for maintaining the record, which is really our most notable ASL resource, and to everybody else who has made the list what it is today. Hope to see you all at ASLOK! Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 07:42:31 -0700 Subject: TB MF reductions Hi, y'all. Where is the listing for TB MF reduction? I know that a TB in a rubble hex reduces the MF cost through the TB hexsides to the pre-Rubble cost. But what about the TB cost for infantry in woods? There's an example in the Chapter B minefield rules that states that an Infantry unit normally pays 1.5 MF to enter a woods hex via a TB, but I can't find the specific rule. So, where am I not looking? Dade ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 11:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mustafa Unlu Subject: Re: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY What's wrong with making a newsgroup and cross-posting everything from this list to the newsgroup? That way, we can have both a mailing list and a newsgroup. Tell you what, Chris, if you start the RFD for rec.games.board.asl, I'll participate and I'll also vote yes for the creation. I am sure that many people will do so. M. ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Sun, 12 Jun 94 23:02:42 EDT Subject: Re: Finding the list I found the list by noticing the mention of it in one of the annuals, then by hunting around the internet for lists of newsgroups, finding consim-l, and having someone direct me to asl-request. Kind of circuitous but it worked. I've mentioned it to at least three people but they've lost an interest in playing ASL.... I think we should advertise the email addresses in OAF, RR, ASLUG, and the Hill (the General, and the Annual). Since I'm not running the list, it's not my place to advertise it publicly (sans permission). Anybody have any objections to this? Dr. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:16:44 -0600 From: thh@cccc.cc.colorado.edu (Tom Huntington) Subject: Looking for old messages Hi, Way back when I first subscribed to this list, someone posted a self-test so you could determine how good a Squad Leader you were (6+1 you haven't read the rules, 10-3 even AH wants your opinion). Does someone still have a copy of this? If so, could you email it to me? Thanks, Tom Huntington ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 11:20:25 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Re: ORIGINS 94 Hi guys, Dave (w/ 9 ML) said: >Origins 94 is being held at the Santa Clara Convention Center in San Jose >from 7-10 July. They're having a 2 day ASL tournament which starts >Friday and winds up Saturday night. >If I read their pre-registration booklet right, it looks like 4 day >admittance to the convention is $25, and it will cost another $15 for >two days of ASL. >Anyone out their know anything about this puppy? Could it really be >worth $40 to play two days of ASL? I've never been to a convention >or tournamnent before, but this one's only 90 minutes away. If anyone >knows anything more specific about the Origins ASL tourney, I'd appreciate >more info. $40 sounds pretty steep, but it's a Big Name Con, not some Cheesy Local ASL Tourney. And if you're close enough not to need a motel room, then it's a bargain IMO. And you get all the extra attractions of a Big Con, like: The Dealers' Room: 237644543795874 fervent MtG players using their parents' money to try to acquire that Uncommonly Rare Black Border Super- Cheato Robin Williams (as Da Genie) Three Wishes Card, and then argue that it _is too_ legal for tourney play. The Costume Contest. Guess who's going to win: the person with the best costume, or the woman with the smallest one? And will there be a lawsuit against the judge? The Cyberpunk LARPG Pose-off. See real-life Mickey Mouse Punks transform themselves with Radio Shack LED's into Dangerously Chromed Junkie Warriors from the Near Bleak Future. Watch them try to intimidate passersby who're interfering in their game by walking through the hallways to get pizza. Hear them bitch about the "no realistic-looking toy guns" rules, and vow to join the NRA and fight the power. The No-Doz Slo-Mo Titan Extravaganza. Wherein the four-hour time limits are ignored and the last player to fall asleep wins. Continuing throughout the four-day weekend. Any player who takes a shower break is disqualified, so watch from the other side of the room. Yeah, I'd go. Sounds like fun. There should be a lot going on to keep you busy, but I imagine most of the ASL players will barricade themselves into a room and ignore everything except junk food and ASL. ObActualASL: Summer Wars was definitely worth $12, as that included pizza. I kinda stunk up the joint, going 1-3 with my only win in Strayer Strays (stupid scenario), but it was fun. Riding Shotgun was a neat scenario that I'd recommend to anybody who enjoys stripping MG's off various American vehicles as they attack. Eric Givler pounded my Americans, but then I watched Chuck Goetz beat Guy Chaney with the Yanks so I guess it's reasonably balanced. A lot seems to ride on the gas DR for the German SP 105. Since it can't even change VCA once it runs out, it had better roll low. Under the Noel Trees is always fun, though Neil S. used the same HIP setup that Matt Shostak had used on me the first time I played it and I lost to it again. The Attempt to Relieve Peiper is no fun if you double red card your artillery in the first turn. Jeff Coyle demonstrated that SS with tanks can indeed walk over unsupported paratroopers in the woods, and I let him take some prisoners by retreating too slowly across a road, making his exit VP's that much easier. Mike McGrath showed me how to properly attack with the Italians in Bridge to Nowhere _after_ he wiped the floor with me. Ahah, now that I know where to put the mortars I'll do better next time. Carl overwhelmed my last few Germans in Chance D'une Affaire at about 3 a.m., showing that a captured DC is indeed a great thing to use to kill a halftrack. My only regret is that I couldn't find anybody to play an airdrop scenario, again. Time to design the paraMarines-with-RCL's-and-paraBurros-to-haul-them scenario that would entice somebody into playing with all those cool chute counters. I would have liked to get some PTO in, too, but my lack of forethought meant that I ended up playing whatever my opponents suggested most of the time. Gotta photocopy^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwrite up a list of good scenarios to try next time. Strayer Strays won't be on it. Kudos to Kevin Meyer for running a good tourney; many minuses for putting this on the suggested scenario list. :-> Nice seeing y'all that showed up. Dave "pretty long for an Ob, eh?" Ripton ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 09:06:29 PDT From: jon@netlabs.com (Jonathan Biggar) Subject: KGP II Sighting!! According to Game Shop News, KGP II is due to ship in June! Can anybody corroborate? Jon ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 09:12:32 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Re: ORIGINS 94 > The Dealers' Room: 237644543795874 fervent MtG players using their > parents' money to try to acquire that Uncommonly Rare Black Border Super- > Cheato Robin Williams (as Da Genie) Three Wishes Card, and then argue > that it _is too_ legal for tourney play. Pardon the topic drift, but what is this Mtg thing, anyway? That, and Star Fleet Battles, seems to be the highlight of Origins. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on it? Privately, so we don't incur the wrath of the Topic Police. Dave ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:49:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Allison Subject: Re: ORIGINS 94 Dave Ripton writes: [much rampant snipping] > Mike McGrath showed me how to properly attack > with the Italians in Bridge to Nowhere _after_ he wiped the floor with > me. Ahah, now that I know where to put the mortars I'll do better > next time. So are you going to share Mr. McGrath's insights with us? I have only played this scenario once, a long time ago, but I think it's one of the best. I was the Italians and I took too long getting into position...that 5PP ATR slows you down! How about some discussion on this one? > Dave "pretty long for an Ob, eh?" Ripton - Jeff Allison ----- Subject: ALLIGATORS & RECALL From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 10:57:00 -0640 Howdy, My recent request for information on "Bloody Red Beach" prompted one person to write with the suggestion that the Marines leave a HS mounted in their Alligators when the rest dismount. This gives the Marines lots of armor support even if some fail their recall TC. I think this is a nice, sleazy move, and I thought I'd pass it along to the rest of you. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 13:13:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "DALE A. WETZELBERGER" Subject: Hello, I am going on a business trip to Bologna, Italy and was interested if there were any players interested in a face-to-face game. Dale Wetzelberger Baltimore, MD Subscribe ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 13:18:47 -0400 (EDT) From: James D Shetler Subject: Re: KGP II Sighting!! On Mon, 13 Jun 1994, Jonathan Biggar wrote: > According to Game Shop News, KGP II is due to ship in June! Can anybody > corroborate? Holy smokes! Could this be true? I haven't been this excited since ... lets just say this level of expectation usually requires: 1. A hot date 2. A cold beer 3. Both You get the picture. Really, is this for real, or just another tease? Curious (again) in Pittsburgh, Jim Shetler P.S. Speaking of KGP, Paul Ferraro and I had a ftf over "Panthers in the mist" last Saturday night. I was the SS. Needless to say, there weren't many Iron Crosses handed out. ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:13:51 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: newsgroup This would be a major problem for me as I have access to internet mail only, not to newsgroups (other than the few that local sysops decide to bring in). I don't have direct internet access, just email access, so I would be off the list. -Grant. ... "Nurse! I said: "SLIP off his SPECtacles!" -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 15:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: James D Shetler Subject: D-Day Howdy everybody, This isn't really an ASL question, but more of an observation on the recent D-Day coverage in the media. I'm just curious to see (or hear) whatever is planned for the 50th anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge. Remember the hoopla over the anniversary of Pearl Harbor back in '91? I don't remember any similar treatment of the fall of Bataan/Corrigedor (which I believe was the largest mass surrender in U.S. history, followed by the surrender of the 106th Division during the Bulge). Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trying to diminish the significance of any of these events or insult anyone involved. I'm just curious to hear what yunz think. Well, sorry about my ravings. I'm just in a lather about the scuttlebutt of the impending KGPII release. Plus, I'm at work and bored to tears. Roasting in Pennsyltucky, Jim Shetler ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:49:40 -1000 From: pjonke@mano.soest.hawaii.edu (Patrick Jonke) Subject: Re: KGP II Sighting!! >On Mon, 13 Jun 1994, Jonathan Biggar wrote: > >> According to Game Shop News, KGP II is due to ship in June! Can anybody >> corroborate? > >Holy smokes! Could this be true? Not a chance in hell. KGP II is on indefinite hiatus. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Patrick Jonke School of Ocean and Earth Science & Technology Department of Marine Geology & Geophysics University of Hawaii at Manoa +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 16:09:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: KGP II Sighting!! > P.S. Speaking of KGP, Paul Ferraro and I had a ftf over "Panthers in the > mist" last Saturday night. I was the SS. Needless to say, there weren't > many Iron Crosses handed out. Jim is being understated. His SS did a hell of a job -- my Americans were just plain lucky. A _lot_ of Iron Crosses were earned. It is just that one particular M5 crew earned a CMOH. It fired canister every turn at the SS infantry and did a marvelous Energizer (tm) Bunny imitation with the canister shot. The same tank killed a Panther (I think?!). At game end I only had one M4 and one (mired) M5 left. It was a real manuever the infantry, race the tanks, and shoot at everything slug fest. It was my first exposure to KGP...wow, is that board tight on that side! I am pretty damn certain I won't fair as well the next time I face Herr Shetler! Paul ----- Subject: TB MF reductions From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 14:17:00 -0640 Howdy, dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) writes: > Where is the listing for TB MF reduction? I know that a TB > in a rubble hex reduces the MF cost through the TB hexsides > to the pre-Rubble cost. But what about the TB cost for > infantry in woods? You know, I spent 15 minutes looking for this in the ASLRB. >From the Q&A: B13.4212 & B13.43 "May Infantry/cavalry enter woods by using an existing TB in that hex? A. Yes. The cost for Infantry to do so is 1&1/2 MF, while that for Cavalry is 3 MF. {91}" So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 14:17:00 -0640 Howdy, Chris Farrell writes: [Resolved: ASL Mailing List should become a newsgroup] > A non-trivial number of people believe that we have a very > nice group here, what would we want to open it up to more > people for? I have never heard anyone say this. I, for one, would be very glad to have many, many more people on the mailing list. However, I think that the mailing list should remain a mailing list and not a newsgroup. BTW, I am in favor of making ourselves known in the various fanzines. I would be happy to write a short article describing the asl mailing list and ways of getting access for inclusion in if there was interest from the magazines. Alternately, I would contribute toward the purchase of an ad if that were the appropriate approach. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 02:56:48 EDT Subject: Summer Wars Hey Gang, The ASL tournament was fun. I ended up with a record of 3-1-1. Started the weekend with "Counterstroke at Stonne." [The French counterattack to retake a chateau.] I was the Germans. I f___ed up the placement of my HMG and put it too far back (for endgame use) but it malfunctioned on the first turn and broke later on. Turn 2, the French tried to get aggressive in the center and I opened up with my HIP 37L ATG to destroy two Renaults (one was critically hit!). A third tank was critically hit but the shot was a dud!!! Two GAME turns later I finally managed to dispatch that tank but by then the French infantry had moved up enough to break my crew in the ensuing DFPh. Meanwhile my 75* INF which was broken early on, got fixed and in the nick of time. It came back and blasted the center of what looked like a large diversionary attack. The French tanks (5 Char1 Bs with a 75* and a 47 each) were penetrating my flanks much to my consternation. [My StuGs only had HE ammo! And my 37L Htracks were out of position.] Nonetheless, I had a squad close assault a tank and immobilize it. The game was far from over (Turn 5 of 10) when my opponent decided he'd rather play something smaller. We called it a draw. Game 2 was a DASL scenario called "Back to School." I got the Russians and it was weighted for the Russians. I won handily but there was some intense action including my capturing the German FT and turning on it the Huns, and their capturing it back (both the German engineers and the Russian commandos rolled boxcars for MCs and disrupted adjacent to their respective enemies). On my last game turn I was broke a stack of squads by claiming wall advantage instead of the building and attacked at 8 even. That pretty much sealed the game. Game 3 saw me playing a different opponent in a relatively new DASL scenario called "Tussle at Thomashof." The British (with a Crocodile FT tank) assault two buildings over open ground with loads of barbed wire. The Germans get a 75L ATG, a 81 MTR, 1 MMG, minefields, wire, Panzerfausts, and 2nd line and conscript squads. I played the British and absolutely thrashed my opponent. It was the first time for me that a FT actually did well; its first shot scored a 2KIA! I attacked from two sides with my forces split almost evenly. We misplayed a couple of rules (barbed wire and CX status, low vis penalty) that would have slowed down my assault a little but I'm pretty sure I'd of won without these. Game 4 was a rematch of the same scenario with me as the Germans. It was tense (and we didn't add in the rules that we'd played wrong to make it even). The British tried the same attack that I'd made with some differences in leadership. I set up much differently with my wire surrounding the main building instead of the outbuilding. My minefields were set up in areas to interdict the use of the woods and significantly slowed the attack. The piece de resistance was when I opened up with my 75L ATG from HIP and critically hit the crocodile from the rear! Fireworks!! That sealed the game for me. Game 5 was " Dreil Team." It was set near Arnhem. The scenario pitted the British trying to get 4 squad equivalents off the board (no armor involved). The Germans had a panther and elite and 1st line troops. It's a tough row for the Pommies to hoe but I took it on. The panther scored a critical hit in my attempts to rush one of the bridges and blew 2 squads away with a 2KIA! It was getting late and I had a 6 hour drive coming up so I rushed a bit.;-) I rushed the second bridge and got a squad with a piat next to the panther and toasted it from the side! I conceded on turn 7 because I could only get 3 VP (of 8) off the board and it was getting late. After failing to take one bridge and losing many squads in the attempt, it was pointless to continue. My luck really sucked during the whole game. I think this is an excellent but difficult scenario. I'd enjoy playing it again. It was nice getting to meet ya'll! Got to work, Dr. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 16:37:00 -0400 From: Doug.Williamson@DL-NOTES.SMTRW.LANGATE.sprint.com Subject: Re: KGP II Sighting!! >On Mon, 13 Jun 1994, Jonathan Biggar wrote: > >> According to Game Shop News, KGP II is due to ship in June! Can anybody > corroborate? > >Holy smokes! Could this be true? I haven't been this excited since ... lets just say this level of >expectation usually requires: >1. A hot date >2. A cold beer >3. Both >You get the picture. Really, is this for real, or just another tease? > >Curious (again) in Pittsburgh, >Jim Shetler > Sorry, guys, but GSN is not the definitive source for publication schedules. They usually anounce things long before they actually show up. In this case, you've been told by AH itself it ai't happening so, so believe them (not GSN). Doug "sorry to rain on your parade" Williamson ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 17:58:23 EDT From: bconab@fir.pwcm.com (Bob Conabee) Subject: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY As a new member of the ASLML I wanted to throw my two cents in regarding the proposed establishment of a rec.games.board.asl newsgroup. I don't think the issue should be decided on the basis of "so and so" doesn't have usenet access, although with a group this small it's tempting to do so. Just because you don't have it now doesn't mean you can't get it. There are a few important questions to answer. Firstly, will the widening of the audience experienced by having the group added to news have a positive effect on the level of discussion. Secondly, do we have enough people with usenet access to sustain a newsgroup? Lastly, other than not currently having news access, why wouldn't people want an ASL newsgroup. Nobody sees the Genie group as a threat, except maybe on the playing board :) If only 25% of the people on the list have usenet access we might not even be able to sustain a newsgroup. Does anybody have any idea? I would be willing to compile the statistics. (Please don't send me email yet, I'd like to see whether people feel it's worth persuing first) IF A NEWSGROUP IS CREATED.... I definitely think that the size of the audience will increase with all the associated advantages/disadvantages More new people, which means new opponents but more stupid beginner questions More bandwidth in general, but an easier way to sift through for what each person finds to be useful. No mail boxes jammed with incoming letters. I've noticed that a few people have voiced concern about the future of ASL in a gaming world dominated by SEGA and DOOM. I think that this is one thing that the members of the list could do to counteract the fear of the games perceived slow slide into extinction. -Later Bob Conabee (new guy on the block) ----- From: nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra) Subject: Air Support Q's. Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 15:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, my apologies if this appears twice - I got the wierdest response from my mailer when I tried to send it last time (and nothing showed up indicating it'd gone through). Do I have to have a SMC/MMC/vehicle in sight to conduct ground support attacks? How 'bout entrenchments? Empty hexes where I think there could be HIP Japanese? (I'm playing Grabbing Gavutu from the 93b Annual). If not, what good are 3 FB's on Turn 1 (recall at end of turn) especially if the Japanese can't fire until game turn 2? THANKS! -Nadir ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 19:17:29 EDT From: dmk8r@neptune.cs.virginia.edu Subject: Re: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY I think it's time to revise the definition of chutzpah (Tom, there's that word again :-) that was posted here a few weeks ago: Chutzpah: An admittedly new member of the mailing list proposing that many long-contributing members of the list should be dropped so that he won't be inconvenienced by having to deal with a few extra mail messages. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that post was remarkably insensitive. But, on a constructive note, would it be possible to set the list server up so that some people could opt to receive a single mailing that contained all the traffic for the day? Wasn't this an option way back when, or am I thinking of a different list? Darrell Kienzle dmk8r@virginia.edu ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 18:54:06 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY Hey now, ho now dudes. The Equality, Fraternity, and Brotherhood Police gotta step in here a sec. Discussions like this are for _everybody_, regardless of how long they've been around. It's good to hear different opinions from new faces, especially if the Young Punks come up with good ideas that bear listening to. This extends beyond just the discussion about newsgroup-vs-mailing list. It'd be good to see questions, analysis, and other contributions from new people - otherwise the cast of regular contributors is just whistling in the dark. Tom Everybody hug! HuuuuuuuUG! ----- From: Chris Merchant Subject: Tettau's Attack pointers? Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:01:36 +0000 (GMT) I am about to play the second scenario in the Market Garden Campaign, and frankly this one scares Der Lederhosen off me as the German player. Looks like the only advantage I have is time. Lots of it. But I haven't got any room to manoeuvre, and I haven't got the happiest of troops to go prancing around in front of British Paras. Has someone had some experience with this scenario? It seems to me that the German should not split his force due to lack of one, but going you-beaut for the town is likely to end up in tears. Perhaps hope for some nice sniper attacks - but that would mean the Brit would have had to roll snake eyes to get it :@ Comments? Bitte? ************************ | Chris Merchant | | barkmann@adam.com.au | ************************ ----- From: p.pomerantz1@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 04:04:00 UTC Subject: Laddermeisters The battle of the Laddermeisters is joined. Tom's FJs have landed on the Akrotiri peninsula. Despite an elaborate plan of deception which has all the AA guns on Board 4, Tom landed 5 Gilders on Board 6. However, poor British gunnery (don't they teach these guys anything), resulted in no ROF, one damage roll before landing, and an elimination after landing. The damaged glider crashed into another glider evading fire, and one other glider was damaged on landing when it missed its ILH. Tally so far ( Ihave no idea what Tom lost, hopefully both -2 leaders a HMG and a MMG and 2 838s) is two eliminated gliders, 1 damaged glider, all on board 4 where they are about to smear two AA guns (a Bofors and a 3in.) Phil ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 00:48:42 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Noel Trees / Bridge to Nowhere / Newsgroup Hi guys, There were a couple of questions asked of me today that I couldn't answer without mapboards in hand. (Unlike some of you PBEM wunderkinds, I'm not gifted with an eidetic memory for hex coordinates.) The setup which has worked on me _twice_ in Under the Noel Trees has TD's in hexes 19K4 and 19E3. This is obviously a good setup versus an attack along the north edge, using the hedge for cover. But it also handles an attack along the south edge pretty well. The thing I missed in Bridge to Nowhere is that the Russians can put a single 426 in 7BB3 and prevent rout of units that break in the first hex off the bridge (7AA5) to BB4 (with units in or around 17X10 preventing rout to Z4) and nobody can touch that squad from the bridge. So a mortar should go in EE8 to take care of any annoying Russians in BB4/BB3, and the other should go in CC8 to hit Z2 and 17X10. That helps the Italians a lot. Also, more than the obvious stack in N6 should be placed away from the bridge. Since the Italian attack tends to bog down on the bridge anyway, a few more squads should go to the ford side. Finally, the Russian tank is pretty damned vulnerable to a 20L ATR, but can hide way in the back and provide 8 of the 16 FP factors needed for victory at almost no risk to its own safety. Everybody who hasn't should play both of these scenarios. They're pretty small, and simple, and balanced, and fun. Stop reading here if you're sick of the newsgroup thread. On the Eternal Newsgroup Question, my opinion is pretty simple. There is a newsgroup. It's called rec.games.board. ASL is welcome there. There's no compelling reason to set up a rec.games.board.asl, since there is no ASL traffic on Usenet. So any CFV would probably fail at this time. If you want it to pass, the thing to do would be to start posting all the crap^H^H^H^Hmessages from here to rec.games.board daily, until people get annoyed enough to want it moved and support a new group. Somebody could form alt.games.asl or alt.games.board.asl or alt. games.board.asl.spud.taunt-n-pose, but a lot of people can't read alt and a lot of sysadmins wouldn't propagate it. A one-way gating of traffic from here to there would be useful for people like Chris, since they could still mail their posts to the list even if they didn't subscribe to it, and all the idiot Usenet waste ("I've got a question about sign language...") would stay there when people hit the 'f' key rather than being sent to everybody's mailboxes. I kinda like the idea of gating a digestified asl-L to r.g.b, actually. But I don't feel like writing the scripts to prune my incoming mail for ASL stuff, strip off all the ugly headers, concatenate it into one mailing, and automatically post it once a day. A two-way gate would increase signal a negligible amount while doubling the noise around here. Bad idea. And a lot of work. Dave Ripton ----- From: Marcus.Schakowski@lair.cds.alt.za (Marcus Schakowski) Date: 12 Jun 94 10:12:38 +0200 Subject: Concealment & Morale 7 ? Hello everyone, One thing that has always bugged me about ASL: What the &^%$ does the "Morale 7" on all the concealment counters mean ? I have searched the ASLRB countless times trying to find a reference to this, but without success. Can someone please tell me so I can sleep at nights.... Thanks, Marcus "Insomniac" Schakowski ... Spaceballs: The Tagline --- Blue Wave/Max v2.10 [NR] ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 00:49:37 -0600 (MDT) From: Darren James Gour Subject: Re: Noel Trees / Bridge to Nowhere / Newsgroup On Tue, 14 Jun 1994, Dave Ripton wrote: > On the Eternal Newsgroup Question, my opinion is pretty simple. > There is a newsgroup. Its called rec.games.board. If you want it > to pass, the thing to do would be to start posting all the > crap^H^H^H^Hmessages from here to rec.games.board daily, until > people get annoyed enough to want it moved and support a new group. > Somebody could form alt.games.asl or alt.games.board.asl or alt. > games.board.asl.spud.taunt-n-pose, but a lot of people can't read > alt and a lot of sysadmins wouldn't propagate i > Dave Ripton We could always send transcripts of the how many counters in a hex thread along with all the stuff on advanced and theoretical mathamatics. While I would hate to disagree with Tom on the right of everyone to post what they feel to this group, hell, I've written some messages I'd rather have back, I would have to agree with Darrell. There are lots of old-timers here on the list who would be knixed if we went to a Newsgroup. While I am lucky enough to have direct access year round through school, I hate to see founders of the list and digest, like Chris, forced for whatever reason to discontinue their subscriptions and the contributions which have come from it. Guess it's just my Canadian diplomatic side coming out...weird, since I'm no Nationalist. Darren Gour ----- From: steve.cocks@duesenberg.se Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 10:45:21 Subject: FILES ON THE ARCHIVE Hi I have recently started to subscribe to the ASL mailing list and through here managed to get a PBEM game started. I also downloaded a bunch of files using the mail server and found them quite interesting. I have a couple of questions to ask and I think this is a good place to start. The "On my Honor" rules for PBM are widely used, does anybody know how I can contact the author ? The reason I ask is that I am trying to get them uploaded to CompuServe but can't until I get his permission. Is the ASL GAP the one written by Steve Zundel ? Do either of the archives (phys.uva.nl or lysator.liu.se) support AFTP ? And lastly. Would the guys in Denver let us know how the 16 foot recreation of D Day went ? It sounded like a very big effort and I for one would be interested to hear what happened. Cheers Steve Cocks ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 06:56:39 EST From: "Cocke, Perry" Subject: Summer Wars Carl writes: "We played Jean Luc's version of Kakazu Ridge (not to be confused with Dan Dolan's scenario of the same name.)....I think that the Americans had best just reinforce the hill they are on and when the Japanese come at you, try to make them pay at least a 1:1 ratio your losses to his. You'll win every time if you can do this." Steve Petersen told me the same thing. Very ahistorical. Dan's on Board 25 is supposed to be better. "Game 2 was against Chuck Goetz....and misreading of the overlays, confusing Orchard overlays for Open Ground overlays...." Chuck didn't tell me about this part, just the bad luck. And Carl's good play. "Game 3 was against Mike McGrath. We chose to play Ramsey's Charge, another ASLUG scenario. I had the Japanese....Another good scenario...requires a lot of thought on the attack by the US player." Mike told me that Carl played an excellent game with only one or two very minor mistakes. Of course, Mike thinks that you have to get lucky AND play a great game in order to beat him. Of course, he is right. "Brian noted... as he was whining and winning in our game of Totsugeki! at midnight on Saturday...." Brian was indeed in rare form in that game, whining his say to victory while taking the art of whining to new levels. All in good fun, unless, like Carl, you have to listen and lose. Carl took it all in stride, especially considering that he was 3-0 at the time with a legitimate shot at winning and was playing someone who was 0-1 in official tournament play and was officially designated as Carl's personal "spoiler" because the other soon-to-be 3-0 contender, Ray Woloszyn, was still wrapped up in his game with Pokey "Perry" Cocke. ...Perry ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 06:56:51 EST From: "Cocke, Perry" Subject: Origins Dave Van Kan asks if it is worth $40 for two days of ASL at Origins. Hell, ASLOK and DonCon arn't worth $40 admission and with them you get 4 days of ASL and proven (if not universally popular) formats. I can't imagine anyone paying $40 to play ASL for 2 days at Origins, except maybe some totally opponent-less geek. ;) Of course, if you are lucky, you might at least get to play Ron Berger. ...Perry ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:29:59 -0600 (CST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: Re: Noel Trees / Bridge to Nowhere / Newsgroup In message Tue, 14 Jun 1994 00:49:37 -0600 (MDT), Darren James Gour writes: > I hate to see founders of the list and digest, like > Chris, forced for whatever reason to discontinue their subscriptions He wasn't forced. He unsubscribed of his own accord. *-=Carl=-* ----- Date: 14 Jun 94 07:18:00 EST From: "Pete McCarthy" Subject: Re: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY Bob Conabee stated... > Just because you don't have it now doesn't mean you can't get it. The only way I can get usenet access is to pay some service to get it. My access to internet is through work, and the chance of my employer getting any usenet inside, much less a newsgroup starting with rec. is about nil. Even having usenet access may still require convincing whoever owns the site that it should carry another newsgroup. Space is sometimes a problem with some sites. There are two ways to handle this that might work. Method 1 (used by rec.games.diplomacy and DIPL-L): All mail sent to DIPL-L is automagically posted r.g.d. All posts on r.g.d are sent to DIPL-L. Both the list and the newsgroup have the same content. Method 2 (used by rec.scuba and SCUBA-D). All posts to rec.scuba are accumulated and mailed once every so often (daily or more often) to SCUBA-D. An address is provided such that those who cannot access usenet can still post to rec.scuba. Peter J. McCarthy ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 09:10:52 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Newsgroups and stuff Guys, One thought occured to me the other day. A lot of people are mentioning setting up automatic forwarding of list mail to a newsgroup. The problem is, the stuff posted to the newsgroup does not come back to the list. I, for one, have a problem with this since it, in effect, creates two separate entities within internet dealing with ASL. I'm not sure if there is a way to send net news to a list, there may be, but for now it would double my "read-load" since I'd have to read both the list and the newsgroup. Just a thought, Brian ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 9:38:54 EDT From: Paul Stoecker Subject: Newsgroup Although I do not post regularly I have been on the mailing list for a few months and have been following the discussions of the newsgroup idea. I think that if people would like to post messages to the mailing list and a newsgroup at the same time they can. They should just post to rec.games.board at the same time they could reference the mailing list and the usenet people could then join up. This way the audience is expanded. It seems a good idea would be to post once a month a note on how to subscribe to the mailing list on rec.games.board. I think this would be a good compromise for both sides of this issue. Question: Do most people on the usenet also have an internet account that does not charge a fee for messages? If so, they should have no problems with signing up on the mailing list. Paul Stoecker ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 13:55:27 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: Bridge to Nowhere I played this scenario for the first time at the Chicago ASL tourney in April; I lost as the Russians, but I really enjoyed the game. I felt I had the game reasonably well in hand, but then I (a) malfed the MA on the tankette and (b) let my conscripts get too close to the bad guys. Problem A is the breaks of the game, no big deal, but B was a botch on my part and left me with a few disrupted squads that shouldn't have gotten shot up in the first place. I would welcome a discussion of this scenario if folks are interested. I'll check the maps tonight and offer my good-but-not-great Russkie setup. Take it easy, JR ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: POSSIBLE NEWSGROUP RFD Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 10:07:08 EDT Guys - After my last post I have had more people who have been supportive of the newsgroup concept. So here is what I am going to do. Mail me if you would support and vote "yes" for a CFV for rec.games.board.asl. I would appreciate it if you would just send me an empty letter with the subject "yes for rec.games.board.asl" or somthing along those lines. If I get at least 25 messages I will go ahead with an RFD, which I have a basic outline for. For now, don't bother to mail me if you would vote "no". As long as it is possible to mirror the newsgroup and the ML (which I now understand it is) I have no problem with starting the newsgroup even if there are long-time subscribers who have no news access or other problems with it. These problems are not insurmountable, and IMHO a newsgroup would bring tremendous advantages. Chris -- Chris Farrell | Forward, always forward, Programmer/Analyst, Genetics | onward always up, ckf2@po.cwru.edu | catching every drop of hope Go Tribe! | in my empty cup - Lea Salonga ----- Subject: NAPALM HITS & BLAZE From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 23:56:00 -0640 Howdy, According to the ASLRB: G17.41 "any hit by napalm ... results in the immediate placement of a Blaze counter at the Base Level of the target hex." Does this mean that the Blaze counter is more likely to appear in a hex with unconcealed units than one with concealed/HIP/no units because of the Case K TH modifier? The Marines are planning a landing on Guam and would like to set some Kunai on a hill ablaze. BTW, thanks to all those who answered my question at Summer Wars. The cost to enter a burning wreck is indeed +2 MP, +1 for the wreck and +1 for the smoke (D10.2). So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 11:21:39 -0400 Subject: Newsgroup Item Subject: Message text > Question: Do most people on the usenet also have an internet account that > does not charge a fee for messages? If so, they should have no problems with > signing up on the mailing list. I have both but I'd *MUCH* prefer to see a newsgroup than email. My access is from work and I get beeped when mail comes in. I need that because I work in Tech Support and mail is the primary way people get ahold of me with a crisis. It's a little annoying to get beeped 50 times a day for ASL stuff. I've put up with the annoyance because this list is so good. If this list were to be offered in News I'd unsub here in a heartbeat. News is just too mind- numbingly more convienent. As for why I don't lurk out on rec.games.board, it's because I'm not interested in Titans or Monopoly or Diplomocy or King Maker. I just want to read about ASL. The signal to noise ratio there is just too low for me. So, I for now I continue to suffer the annoyance of this list in order to enjoy it's benefits. But you'll have to forgive me if I get a little excited everytime someone suggests the creation of what, for me, would be Nirvana: a newsgroup for ASL. thanks, dave_wetzel@vos.stratus.com ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 09:39:34 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Laddermeisters, the saga continues > > The battle of the Laddermeisters is joined. > Tom's FJs have landed on the Akrotiri peninsula. > Despite an elaborate plan of deception which has all the AA guns on Board > 4, Tom landed 5 Gilders on Board 6. > I will testify that Phil has the biggest cojones I've ever seen. He puts a AA-cluster ? in 6X9 and nearly all of the Brit infantry on board 3 are stacked on the western half of the town, but it's all a bluff. With NOBODY in buildings 3Z1, X3, V1, V3, U1, T1, T3, S1, or S3, Phil puts a real AA cluster around 4L5. > However, poor British gunnery (don't > they teach these guys anything), resulted in no ROF, one damage roll before > landing, and an elimination after landing. The damaged glider crashed into > another glider evading fire, and one other glider was damaged on landing > when it missed its ILH. Waal, this may not be true. I think that AA fire vs Aerial targets doesn't use PBF, so Phil's 16(+1) shot was actually an 8(+1) shot, and the final DR of 9 is a miss instead of a Damage. Which makes things look _very_ nice for the seven squads who landed nearly on top of the Bofors and 3-incher in 4L2 and 4N3; we look for some very irritable FJ's to vent their spleens (and their gun clips) at the Gun crews in Advancing Fire, with the coup de gras administered at 4:1 in CC. Very very very lucky for the FJ's here. Four Bofors AA shots yielded DR's of 8, 11, 11, and 10. Tough to hurt the fragile Gliders with luck like that. But still, the 3-incher did take out a Glider in final fire, and one glider was damaged. Tom "You want me to jump outta THAT?" ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Concealment & Morale 7 ? Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 17:48:52 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, The 7 ML on the ?-counters is used for taking PAATC's when an AFV enter your hex. I think it is also used for something else, but I cannot remember what. Speaking of that, why do american/axis minor/italian ?-counters have 7 ML? Why do finnish ones have *only* 7 ML? :-) Seriously, who thought we'd see ?-counters with a different ML? Everyone would try to use finnish ?-counters for his germans ;-) -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- From: Chris Farrell Subject: rfd Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 10:34:07 EDT Lest any of you panic, the possible RFD (which I will undertake ONLY if I get enough people to respond with positive support) is only the first step towards creating the new newsgroup. There is still plenty of room for discussion once the ball is set in motion, IF that even happens. One aspect of any RFD would certainly be to ask the Diplomacy types for exact details on how their list mirrors the newsgroup, since I imagine any plan which does not involve a mirror will lose considerable support from the people here. If we don't get at *least* a net 50 yes votes from this group I doubt very much that any new newsgroup will pass. Chris ----- From: Jean-Luc.Bechennec@lri.fr Subject: Re: Summer Wars Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 16:33:30 +0200 (MET DST) Cocke, Perry writes: > > > Carl writes: > > "We played Jean Luc's version of Kakazu Ridge (not to be confused > with Dan Dolan's scenario of the same name.)....I think that the > Americans had best just reinforce the hill they are on and when > the Japanese come at you, try to make them pay at least a 1:1 > ratio your losses to his. You'll win every time if you can do > this." > > Steve Petersen told me the same thing. Very ahistorical. > Dan's on Board 25 is supposed to be better. > Kakazu Ridge is not suppose to be very historical. It allows newcomers to play the japanese with no PTO terrain (light jungle is only 2 level wood) and on a well known board. That's all. -- ========================================================================== Jean-Luc Bechennec / / Equipe Architecture des Ordinateurs et ( ( Conception des Circuits Integres \ \ LRI, bat 490 \ \ Tel 33 (1) 69-41-70-91 Universite Paris-Sud ) ) Fax 33 (1) 69-41-65-86 F-91405 ORSAY Cedex / / email jlb@lri.lri.fr ========================================================================== ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 12:01:16 EDT From: bconab@fir.pwcm.com (Bob Conabee) Subject: NEWSGROUP Gentleman, When I stumbled across the existence of this list a few weeks ago I was ELATED. I had played ASL PBM in the past, but the lag of snail mail was just to long to tolerate. After playing one scenario for 6 months and only being on Turn 3 or 4 I gave up. I was even happier to find that the level of discourse on the list has a rather high content to bandwidth ratio and I can't say enough regarding the ftp-archive site. Kudos to Tom Repetti for work on the ladder, Eric Young for the amazing perl program (which I intend to study in detail being a perl programmer myself), Will Scarvie for "The ASL Record" and all the other people that I'm sure to have missed. The short of it is - I think this ML is a GREAT thing! Having said this....It looked to me as if the suggestion for the creation of a newsgroup was met with more responses of "You'll be abondoning me!" than a discussion of whether it would better address the needs of the group as a whole and what we could do to minimize the down side for some of the members. I knew when I wrote my last response that some people might take what I was saying the wrong way, and at least one person has: Darrell Kienzle wrote (with some justification): ..proposing that many long-contributing members of the list should be dropped so that he won't be inconvenienced by having to deal with a few extra mail messages. To clarify....I don't want anybody to HAVE to be dropped. I just thought it might pay to have a more serious discussion regarding the pros and cons and what our options are. I'm glad to see that appears to have been the net effect. Chris Farrell recently wrote: As long as it is possible to mirror the newsgroup and the ML (which I now understand it is) I have no problem with starting the newsgroup even if there are long-time subscribers who have no news access or other with it. These problems are not insurmountable, and IMHO a newsgroup would bring tremendous advantages. Chris...I think so too and soif there's anything I can do to help you with this, let me know! Thanks Bob Conabee bobc@panix.com (newbie with a clue) ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: NEWSGROUP SUMMARY Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 18:17:26 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, I just wanted to have a say in this about a newsgroup. Sorry if this is beating a dead horse... > As a new member of the ASLML I wanted to throw my two cents in regarding > the proposed establishment of a rec.games.board.asl newsgroup. I don't > think the issue should be decided on the basis of "so and so" doesn't > have usenet access, although with a group this small it's tempting to > do so. Just because you don't have it now doesn't mean you can't get it. ...and just because you can get access to news doesn't mean that everyone can. This is not a flame, I'm just trying to say that more people have access to mail than to news. > There are a few important questions to answer. Firstly, will the > widening of the audience experienced by having the group added to news > have a positive effect on the level of discussion. Depends on what you mean with the "level" of discussion. I think that the discussion would be less intelligent and more noise generally. > Secondly, do we have > enough people with usenet access to sustain a newsgroup? Probably. > Lastly, other > than not currently having news access, why wouldn't people want an > ASL newsgroup. The noise on news is a good reason IMHO. Of course we could create a moderated group, but that means someone has to moderate. If that could be arranged I wouldn't care whether I read mail or news. > If only 25% of the people on the list have usenet access we might not > even be able to sustain a newsgroup. I think that it would be a bad idea if only 25% of the people have access to news. Where would the other 75% go? The ml would remain, and then you would have to choose if you want to post to the list/group where 75% of the people are, or the one where 25% of the people are... > IF A NEWSGROUP IS CREATED.... I definitely think that the size of > the audience will increase with all the associated advantages/disadvantages > > More new people, which means new opponents but more stupid beginner > questions And more noise of the "# of counters in a hex" type. Actually, even the *noise* on this ml is IMHO fun and well worth reading. About the only messages I don't read is ads for opponents in and ads for conventions. Guess where I'm posting from... > More bandwidth in general, but an easier way to sift through for what > each person finds to be useful. Not necessarily true. As people have said before: if you can't deal with your mail, get a better mail tool! Yes, I know that news can be threaded, and that is great - but many newsreaders don't have that capability and is much more complicated than some of the mail programs. Then there is a possibility to kill threads/subjects as well. This can be done with mail too (sort of), but can be somewhat more complicated, depending on what mailreader you use. > No mail boxes jammed with incoming letters. And news that expires after some time. Add to that problems with even getting the group. I'm not trying to say that news is bad, just that it has deficiencies as well as mail. I admit that I am against the creation of a newsgroup, unless that newsgroup unless that newsgroup is moderated. Too much noise! If it is it doesn't matter, but I think we should respect those who cannot get news. Lastly, for those who cannot handle their mail - why don't think about getting another program to read mail with? I guess that those who say that getting a better mailtool is easy (like me) should be able to prove that by pointing out to you where you can find a better program! I guess a FAQ for this would be outside the topic of this ml, but I don't see why we can't discuss it to see if it is trivial or not to get a new mailtool. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Laddermeisters, the saga continues Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 18:24:08 +0200 (MET DST) Hi Tom, I just though that I saw something wrong in your message: > Waal, this may not be true. I think that AA fire vs Aerial targets doesn't use > PBF, so Phil's 16(+1) shot was actually an 8(+1) shot, and the final DR of 9 is That's perfectly true. > a miss instead of a Damage. Which makes things look _very_ nice for the seven > squads who landed nearly on top of the Bofors and 3-incher in 4L2 and 4N3; we > look for some very irritable FJ's to vent their spleens (and their gun clips) at > the Gun crews in Advancing Fire, with the coup de gras administered at 4:1 in > CC. I thought that FJ's couldn't fire in the AFPh because they take counter form only when they exit their gliders in the APh? Maybe I'm thinking of Parachutists here? (BTW, shouldn't it be "coup de grace"?) > Very very very lucky for the FJ's here. Four Bofors AA shots yielded DR's of 8, > 11, 11, and 10. Tough to hurt the fragile Gliders with luck like that. But > still, the 3-incher did take out a Glider in final fire, and one glider was > damaged. Congrats. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 10:34:05 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: FJ's and AFPh > > I thought that FJ's couldn't fire in the AFPh because they take counter > form only when they exit their gliders in the APh? Maybe I'm thinking of > Parachutists here? (BTW, shouldn't it be "coup de grace"?) > Well, at least Glider troops can fire in the AFPh, dunno about parachutists. Yes, this is after they leave the Glider and appear on the board, after taking any Damage NMC. And whoops, dunno where I got "coup de gras". Tom Doofus de Joor ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: KGP, Avaloncon Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 18:56:55 +0200 (MET DST) About KGP and when to reveal the HIP guns in CG date 1: > Lets face it, how many people have played a complete campaign? I have, three times by now. > I have > know idea how this rule affects the entire campaign. Not much, if at all. It's additional chrome, that's all. For the record, I think that the intent is to determine CA when the gun looses HIP. Sure, you can set them up w/o HIP. Sure, you can fire at an empty hex. Doesn't do you much good when you _need_ a rear or side shot! Determining CA is definitely _not_ worth blowing HIP for, IMHO. > From what I can > see, this looks at a high level strategy view kind of like TRC. The > Germans must take alot of ground in the initial scenarios and then > hold off the superior number of American reinforcements. Take a lot of ground - not really. Not very hard when there are no americans to defend that ground. Hold off the superior number of american reinforcements - I think this is a _severe_ understatement. The last date is bound to be some- thing like 3:1 or worse. > Given the > five additional AT platoons available to the American player, I would > think a few sacrificed AT guns for a few vehicles would be a good > trade. It is!!! Who cares about the AT guns? They're dead meat anyway if they can't move after the scenario - which thay can't w/o a vehicle to tow them away. To be honest, I don't know how hard it would be to just encircle the guns, mainly because I've never seen it done. They have always been captured after the first day anyway due to inability to move (=retreat). > Besides, AT guns are not the easiest things to destroy, even > with a Panther. Just roll over them! :-> > Wellll, I would rather have a Panther than a Sherman! > The loss of a few Panthers will hurt the Germans more than the loss of > the AT guns will hurt the Americans. Let's face it: the americans _will_ lose most of their onboard troops unless they retreat off the map during the first day. They will certainly lose the guns that cannot be moved. It is only a matter of mow mane germans they can kill in the process. Well, maybe they can survive if they mass their troops in one area, but thay are still going to lose lots of troops and get their butts kicked during date 1. > Question: For the initial scenario the sides are given CPPs for purchases. > Are these reduced by a DR as per P8.616? Or are these the actual points > available for both players (unmodified)? Those points are not alloted as per that rule, so we didn't decrease the number of points. > Question: The initial setup locations for the Americans are > "within 3 hexes of any _building_ hex(es) with a coordinate >=19 but > <=34." Does this mean Z37 and K16 are valid setup locations? ie > is the coordinate limit on the building hex, from which you can count > the three hexes with no coordinate limitations? I think Z37 and K16 are valid setup hexes. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 13:11:15 -0400 Subject: Newsgroups & mailer Item Subject: Message text To all concerned, thanks very much for all the suggestions on how to filter mail but since I'm not running on Unix and my mailer doesn't have a filter option it's not really an option. Trust me I've tried everything that can be tried in my mailer and environment and I can not filter mail. Not even mail about how to filter mail ;^) And no, it wasn't my decision to use this mailer, I probably would have picked something else, but saddly, corporate standards leave me no options. thanks, dlw ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 11:05:55 PDT From: vankan@sun10or.or.nps.navy.mil (Capt David Van Kan) Subject: Re: Origins Perry says > I can't imagine anyone paying $40 to play ASL for 2 days at > Origins, except maybe some totally opponent-less geek. ;) Funny, I don't recall ever having met, but you seem to have me down to a t. :-) Dave ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: KGP II news Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 11:35:30 PDT Well, last night I talked on the phone with someone who had just called AH about something, and have some news (though remember, it IS second-hand) about KGP II. The word is that it should be out in September. Timetable for the Annual is December and the next General should be out in 3-4 weeks. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: Newsgroups and stuff Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 11:47:27 PDT > Guys, > One thought occured to me the other day. A lot of people are mentioning > setting up automatic forwarding of list mail to a newsgroup. The problem is, > the stuff posted to the newsgroup does not come back to the list. I, for one, > have a problem with this since it, in effect, creates two separate entities > within internet dealing with ASL. > > I'm not sure if there is a way to send net news to a list, there may > be, but for now it would double my "read-load" since I'd have to read both the > list and the newsgroup. > > Just a thought, > Brian Okay, here's a thought. Set up the newsgroup as moderated, with all postings sent to the asl mailing list. All messages sent to the list are automatically approved and sent to the newsgroup. I'm not terribly familiar with how moderation is supposed to work, but from what little I know it seems that this ought to work, and it would make the mailing list and newsgroup equivalent if it could be done (which is another thing I'm not sure of). Anyone could then choose whether they wanted to read the ASL stuff as mail or news, and the discussion would be identical. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- Subject: BRING ON THE NIGHT V645 From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 14:51:00 -0640 Howdy, "Bring on the Night," revision 645, is now available on carlo. Version 645 fixes up a number of small errors and incorporates the ideas of a few more reviewers. Unless a major error is discovered, revision 645 should be stable for a while. Also, good news for those of you without a PostScript printer: the text version of "Bring on the Night" is now available. The text version is somewhat longer (~45 vs. ~30 pages), omits the bold and underline formatting, and does not use superscript for the footnote numbers, so if you can, choose the PostScript version. Also note that the Copyright, which allows non-commercial reproduction of the article, is designed to allow wide disemination of the article. If you belong to a gaming group or have friends who would be interested, print or make a copy for everyone. You may be reimbursed for the expense of copying without violating the copyright. Finally, at this time all three versions of the article come with extra Carraige Returns. These were inserted in the translation to unix. I will ask Bas to remove these, but in the meanwhile be aware that every Carraige Return has be replaced with a pair of them. This won't affect the PostScript versions (the extra lines are ignored), but will affect the text version. If you download that version in the next few days, see if the text is double-spaced. If so, replace all pairs of carraige returns with a single one. WHAT IT IS: "Bring on the Night" is an article that explains the ASL night rules. It brings together all the night rules along with examples. An extended example of play is also included to give some feel for how all the pieces fit together. HOW TO GET IT: "Bring on the Night" is now available on the ftp server "carlo.phys.uva.nl" in the "/pub/bas/asl/misc" directory. I hope that it will be on the other server shortly. There are three versions, one PostScript for A4 size paper, one PostScript for 8 1/2 x 11" paper and one text file. I have been honoring mail requests for the article. I don't know if we have a mail server set up, but if we do, using that would be preferable. Otherwise, send me a request via e-mail. By default my files are PostScript, 8 1/2 x 11", zipped, and uuencoded. If you want anything different than that, let me know (except the file has to be uuencoded because of my mailer). So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 17:36:08 EDT From: bconab@fir.pwcm.com (Bob Conabee) Subject: Old Generals Hey, One of Bob Conabee's non-confrontational split personalities speaking! I'm looking to get a copy of the two early General's that carried the remake's of the first 1/2 a dozen SL scenarios....Guard's Counter-Attack, The Tractor Works....etc. AHGC seems to be out of them. Any ideas where I might find new/used copies? Anybody want to part with their's? (I doubt it) Thanks in advance.......Shhhhh...the doctor is coming! ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 23:23:51 +0100 From: Michael Zedeler Subject: BSL Computer game Remarkable... In the article "Designers Notes - B.S.L.", Atomic Games doesn't state what computer systems their game "Beyond Squad Leader" will be available on... Does anyone know? Michael. ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 17:41:49 EDT From: bconab@fir.pwcm.com (Bob Conabee) Subject: General's Oh bye the way. I know that AHGC will photocopy the scenarios for you. (As mentioned in the FAQ) I'm just one of those anal guys who likes to have the "real" thing.:-) I'm just a pack rat/collector at heart. Bob ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 17:47:59 EDT From: bconab@fir.pwcm.com (Bob Conabee) Subject: Old AGWAV Games Me again (Bob Conabee) Did anyone save any of the old AGWAV games? I'm trying to come back up to speed and thought that retracing a few old AGWAV games would help. Does anybody have a complete history for the current game? :-) ----- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 16:33:15 -0700 From: Steven J. Szymanski Subject: Re: BSL Computer game BSL will ship for Mac and MS-DOS (same as all their other games). .szy RealLife: Steven J Szymanski "Apple has no idea what I am AppleLink: szy saying here and should not Internet: szy@apple.COM held responsible for my raving" AOL: Sszy So There. ----- From: r.woloszyn@genie.geis.com Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 23:56:00 UTC Subject: ASL in Germany I will be in Germany the next couple of weeks and would be interested in playing ASL with anyone near the following cities: Berlin, Kassel and Wuppertal. Da ich die Vetternstrasse ziehe, werde ich bestimmt ein Bisschen Zeit fuer eine Partie. Bitte, melde sofort! Raymond Woloszyn 'zadra' ----- From: r.mosher2@genie.geis.com Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 01:28:00 UTC Subject: Re: NEWSGROUP and nightltr ======= To: the inet gang ======= Sub: NEWSGROUP and JR's nightltr Here's the cacaphony of genie voices re: the nightltr by JR: > Games RoundTable Category 21, Topic 2 > Message 183 Mon Jun 13, 1994 L.MEHR [Notorious] at > 22:41 EDT > Dan, > While I ain't no computer whiz, not only could a scanner w/ OCR > software create a ASCII file of the PS text, but an even quicker > solution would be to _fax_ the the PS file from a computer to a > computer with fax OCR capability! > Ray T., > What's Critical Hit? > Later, > Louis > ------------ Games RoundTable > Category 21, Topic 2 Message 184 Tue Jun 14, 1994 > K.WHITESELL1 [Ken] at 00:04 EDT > Phlegm, > After it's displayed on the screen you could save it as a bit > map graphic image. Then, if your OCR software will allow you to use a > bit-map image as input, you could translate it that way. (Not the > easiest way, but I guess it could work.) > Ok, found something here - there's a PS file supplied with > Ghostscript called PS2ASCII.PS. It's supposed to extract all of the > text from a postscript file. I have no idea how well it works, or how > it handles tables, but it looks like it might be a start. > Ciao, > Ken > ------------ Games RoundTable > Category 21, Topic 2 Message 185 Tue Jun 14, 1994 > G.LINNEBERG [Razz] at 02:22 EDT > Phlegm- > Postscript to ascii is a no-go because postscript is almost like a > "drawing" of a page, rather than actual letters, words, etc. But, if I > remember right, the Internet author of the piece said he was going to > try make an ascii version as well. The problem is that there are a lot > of diagrams, apparently. > (PS- Saw the photo of you with the Cup in "All-Nude-Crokinole-Review" > Very flattering.) > (PSS- Game 7 tomorrow night! Go Canucks!) > Buzz And note for the record --- none of the genieites can get a newsgroup thing thru genie --so you would be cutting us off as well as the AOLites and Compuservites. for your info ron aka r.mosher2@genie.geis.com ----- From: dxb105@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (David Bofinger) Subject: World in Flames computer game Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 13:13:20 +1000 (EST) > How would you like to see the computer version of WiF that is currently > under development? What features should it have? Any different from the board > game version? More detailed? Etc. I'm not sure I see the point in doing it at all, other than to make money I suppose. My reasons: 1. The AI is unlikely to be good enough to take on any competent human being. Just think of what the program would have to juggle to play a decent game of WiF. 2. If somebody just transcribes WiF to computer, they won't be taking advantage of a computer's special abilities, principally limited intelligence, separate objectives for minor countries and the potential for hideously complex transparent book-keeping. I don't think the success of WiF face-to-face would is a good indication it would be suitable for a computer. Better to design a higher-realism double-blind WW2 grand strategic game from scratch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Bofinger AARNet: dxb105@huxley.anu.edu.au Snail: Dept. of Theoretical Physics, RSPhysSE, ANU, ACT, 2601 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The price of freedom of religion or of speech or of the press is that we must put up with, and even pay for, a good deal of rubbish." -Justice Robert Jackson ----- Subject: NIGHT ARTICLE TEXT FILE From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 23:50:00 -0640 Howdy, r.mosher2@genie.geis.com writes: >Here's the cacaphony of genie voices re: the nightltr by JR: [Various people trying to figure out how to convert PostScript to english. It can be done only imperfectly. At one time I investigated it.] > > The problem is that there are a lot of diagrams, > > apparently. Actually, the problem was that the damn word processor insisted on showing bold by printing the line three times and showing underlines by showing a line, putting a carraige return, then printing a line of spaces and underline characters. Since I thought that people wouldn't necessarily want to print the thing, I was going to go through the text file and fix these problems by hand. As I had other things to do, this didn't get done. UNTIL NOW! THE TEXT VERSION OF "BRING ON THE NIGHT" IS NOW AVAILABLE The text version is done. I discovered that if I remove all the bolding and underlining from the original document, I don't have to remove them from the text file. It is now available from a ftp server near you. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 01:29:18 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: AGWAV games Bob asked: >Did anyone save any of the old AGWAV games? I'm trying to come back up >to speed and thought that retracing a few old AGWAV games would help. I remember recently seeing a copy of the one between Bas and Carl. Hill 253.5, or somesuch number that's not 621. The one with all the toys. There's also a North Bank replay at one of the sites. Look around, or use the magic mail server if you can't ftp. (FAQ tells how.) I couldn't find the Le Herrison replay when I looked for it. Somebody must have saved it, right? >Does anybody have a complete history for the current game? Yes. If you don't mind one really big-and-nasty message, I can concatenate all the mailings. I believe it was being archived on lysator, but I haven't checked lately. We'll be done in a month or two, if you want to wait. :-> Dave "Yes, Comrade Josef, all the ISU's are doing fine" Ripton ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:01:00 +0200 From: bas@phys.uva.nl (Bas de Bakker) Subject: Re: BRING ON THE NIGHT V645 Jonathan Vanmechelen writes: > Finally, at this time all three versions of the article > come with extra Carraige Returns. These were inserted in > the translation to unix. This should be rectified now. Bas. ----- From: Klas Malmstrom Subject: Overstacking/Concealment Loss Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 9:45:17 CETDST Hi, everyone I have a question on Overstacking and Concealment Loss. The rules (A12.14) says that units loose concealment if the _become_ overstacked while in LOS of Good Order enemy units. What about if the _are_ overstacked ? Would a Concealed overstacked stack loose concealment if they Assault Moved/Advanced in LOS of GO enemy units ? -- Klas Malmstrom ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 19:10:30 +0930 GMT From: bjm@rommel.apana.org.au (Brad McMahon) Subject: Re: Newsgroup Hi Brian (Brian Youse), on Jun 10 you wrote: > Chris writes... > > (paraphrased) > > > Why no newsgroup? > > One easy reason is the 35-40 people on here from services which don't > (to the best of my knowledge) do news. GEnie, AOL. Surely this is the best reason to go to newsgroups??? :-P (sprints away from the flammenwerfer) > Everyone, nearly, gets email. A lot of sites restrict news. Even > rec groups get restricted (sorry, it is true). > > I think an exploder is more personal, gets quicker response, and > (oops, forgot my third point). Quicker response?? You better believe it!! It takes minutes for mail to get to any point in the world. With news it is a different story. It takes six days or sometimes longer to get news to Australia from Europe for example. From the U.S. you are usually looking around a 2-4 day average. Because of the long delay, articles can expire before reaching me, and it happens a lot, believe me. And quite often responses to articles reach me before the question, it's hard to be involved in any discussion like that (especially when you know that the thread was probably resolved three days before you read it.) > BTW, in the two-three years (how long *has* it been?) that I've run > the list, I've had something like 20 people ask off due to traffic. Total. > I just don't think it is a major deterrent. If I don't read my mail for a couple of days I can be quite astounded by the volume of mail in my mailbox , hence I have a seperate username just to read asl list mail so it doesn't crowd the more urgent stuff. > > JMO, > Brian > (sorry to post, but this is relevant to the group, as opposed to math theory > as to how many caves can fit on the head of a pin. Or whatever that topic was) err, this is vaguely relevant I guess, but I hardly ever post so Nyaaahh! -- Brad McMahon <> bjm@rommel.apana.org.au I want to get involved in a caper. Let me know! ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 09:03:50 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: "become" in rules Klas said: >I have a question on Overstacking and >Concealment Loss. >The rules (A12.14) says that units loose >concealment if the _become_ overstacked >while in LOS of Good Order enemy units. >What about if the _are_ overstacked ? >Would a Concealed overstacked stack loose concealment if >they Assault Moved/Advanced in LOS of GO enemy units ? The same thing occurs with DM, BTW. Becoming adjacent to a Known enemy unit makes a broken unit DM. So if a concealed enemy loses concealment, then it could _conceivably_ be argued that no DM is placed on the unit because of the wording. In both cases, I think this argument is hogwash and the intent of the rule is clear. Any unit that is overstacked in LOS of Good Order enemy units should lose concealment. Any broken unit that is adjacent to a Known enemy unit should be DM'ed. Once again, the Chapter A rules aren't worded as strictly as the later stuff. Arguments over the semantics of "are" versus "become" probably weren't something Don Greenwood had in mind when he wrote this stuff, or he would have written the rules in some flaky context-free grammar instead of English. But why the heck would "becoming" be more important that "being?" Obviously, it was assumed that you has to "become" before you can "be," which isn't always true in ASL terms because other variables are always changing. See the problems that come up when games are designed by game designers instead of logicians? (Then again, logicians would probably do some really ugly mapboards, and I doubt they know a lot about landing craft.) Dave "Have you been injured by a rule? Call 1-800-NITPICK" Ripton ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Mustafa Unlu Subject: Setting the newsgroup thread right OK, here's my Blaze spread attempt: (Those tried of this news vs mail debate skip now) Let's set this right in people's minds. What Chris, et al are proposing is NOT to abolish this mailing list in lieu of a rec.games.board.asl. I repeat: The mailing list will NOT be switched to a newsgroup. The mailing list will live, mirrored to a newsgroup. Thus, everything that this mailing list receives, the newsgroup will, and vice versa. This hopefully will represent the best of two worlds: 1) It will keep those without a news access. 2) It will enable those who have not been able to catch up with so many mail messages to use a news reader. I don't see how this is different from, say, subscribing genieites to the list. Look at it as expanding the number of subscribers. Sure, it will generate quite a few more mail messages, but, hey those who cannot deal with lots of mail have already unsubscribed, no? Now debate on... M. ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:16:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Shields Subject: "War" Stories We've all had strange and unusual things happen during games. To present another trivia thread why don't y'all relate some of these stories. And I'm not talking about critical hit duds unless they occurred more than three times in a game! I'll start: In _Tanks in the Streets_ I was playing the Amis. I managed to have 7 AFVs recalled due to my sniper! My opponent had all of his AFVs CE to fire his popguns. Needless to say I won! In _Kurhaus Clash_ my SS troops stormed a building holding the lone 7-0 with the radio. He called down the OBA and managed to hold off my guys for two whole game turns before I squeaked one measley squad in to kill the guy. Talk about tense. The 7-0 made 4 MCs while my guys broke all around him. Others? Jeff ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 08:51:38 -0500 From: Bryan Milligan Subject: Re: "War" Stories Okay, I've got one. In a game of "Rattle of Sabres" I generated five heros in three turns. Next game, same day, "The Guards Counterattack," five more. My dice have never again been so blessed. Bryan ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 08:25:30 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: 2 Glider thoughts Thought 1 - Can anybody come up with a reason why a Damaged Landed Glider is a Hindrance and a TEM while an Undamaged one is just a Hindrance? Thought 2 - Shouldn't Gliders NOT be a Hindrance on the Player turn that they land, kind of like a moving vehicle isn't a hindrance if you could apply Case J to it? (This may in fact be the case, since Ordnance firing on a landed Glider does indeed use case J.) Tom ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 08:28:20 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: "War" Stories > > We've all had strange and unusual things happen during games. To present > another trivia thread why don't y'all relate some of these stories. OK. One time, Carl took a shot with his ATG and he MISSED and didn't even retain ROF! Really! I was shocked. Tom ----- Date: 15 Jun 94 10:26:45 EDT From: Bruce Probst <100033.3661@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Some more ASL Q & A from the Hill Hi folks, While rummaging around some old wargaming papers, I found a letter that I had posted to AH some years ago (1989) with questions on ASL. (I think I had stopped playing due to other pressures by the time I got the reply.) Since the answers are "official", I figure it's worthwhile posting them here .... Most of them were inspired by a Hedgerow Hell scenario that I had just finished playing. I have a strong recollection of spending a long time with my opponent as we tried to nut out the bocage rules . ----------------------- B9.32 If a unit behind bocage chooses not to claim Wall Advantage in a hex so as to remain out of LOS of non-adjacent enemy units, when may it subsequently claim Wall Advantage? A. Not if an enemy unit claims it across that hexside first. {I freely admit to being unable to understand the above answer! Anyone else care to have a stab at it?} B9.32 May a unit in a hex behind bocage voluntarily relinquish an already claimed Wall Advantage so as to place itself out of LOS? If so, when and under what conditions? A. Only if it can claim in-hex TEM as per B9.31, or if it voluntarily breaks (see B9.32). B9.32 In Deluxe ASL, is there any limit to the number of hexsides a single unit may claim for Wall Advantage? A. 6 (heh heh). B9.522 Is this rule still true if an adjacent enemy unit has Wall Advantage on the bocage hexside? A. No (oops). C2.2401 The rule states "Neither the +1 DRM for a Gyrostabiliser nor the doubling of the lower dr of the TH DR for other Guns in Case C4 is included in this calculation." Does this mean the Case C modifier of +1 for G (only) is ignored? The Case C4 modifier (only)? Or both? A. Both. C2.2401 & D3.44 Does an Armour Leader's modifier count as a "Firer-Based Hit Determination DRM" for the purposes of Gun Duels? A. Yes. D4.2 May vehicles that are HD due to bocage claim a Case Q To Hit DRM? A. No. ------------------------- Enjoy! Bruce (Melbourne, Australia) ----- From: dade_cariaga@rainbow.mentorg.com (Dade Cariaga) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 07:38:29 -0700 Subject: Re: "War" Stories Hi, ya'll. On Jun 15, 9:16am, Jeff Shields wrote: > Subject: "War" Stories > > We've all had strange and unusual things happen during games. To present > another trivia thread why don't y'all relate some of these stories. And > I'm not talking about critical hit duds unless they occurred more than > three times in a game! Here's a couple of stories. (Hope they qualify.) I was playing the Italians in Showdown at Tug Argan Pass. I was positively rolling up my opponent, making steady progress every turn, and really punishing the defenders. On the last turn of the game I was positioned to storm the final victory hex with 4 squads, one of which had a DC. During his DFF, he FPFed against the DC squad, rolled snakes, vaped my DC squad and generated a hero in the ensuing HOB roll. I was shaken, but my AF broke his squad and wounded the hero. I advanced into CC with two squads against his hero: 6-1 odds. I roll low and pick him off. Then he rolls: SNAKES! I was robbed of victory by a lone SMC. Similarly, way back when I was an ASL-neophyte (6 years or more), I was playing the Germans in OAF's Smasher Karl (excellent scenario, BTW). I had the Russian attack contained the entire game, and on the last turn, his only chance of winning required that he CX his 8-0 leader across 6 hexes to be able to advance into a building. I had the route covered by 3 or 4 squads that were all in a position to get both FFNAM and FFMO modifiers. Well, GUESS WHAT? He brushed off a 2MC, a PTC, and another attack that missed completely and advanced in for the win. Ya gotta love this game. ;') Dade ----- Date: 15 Jun 94 10:48:17 EDT From: Bruce Probst <100033.3661@CompuServe.COM> Subject: "War" Stories Jeff writes: >> We've all had strange and unusual things happen during games. To >> present another trivia thread why don't y'all relate some of these >> stories. Well, I don't know about "strange and unusual" but the following was one of my finer moments and one of my lesser moments in the same game . Many years ago, when ASL was but an idle thought in Don Greenwood's head, some friends and I played a huge DYO double-blind game of SL (up to and including the GI rules). I played the British, my opponent was the SS, and we were trying to gain control of the central village. We used about six boards I think. (We had a lot of space and a lot of time and we both had full sets of the game, so we figured we should put it to good use! ) The great thing about the double-blind system was the uncertainty factor. (Anyone thought of updating that system for ASL?) My lesser moment: I had an Archer on top of Board 2 with a Panther in his 17-pdr sights on top of board 16 (I think), about five boards away. We traded shells for something like four or five turns. Under double-blind, unless you're close or unless the vehicle burns, you don't know what damage you're doing. He kept missing me; I was pretty sure I was hitting him but nothing was happening. After I while I noticed he wasn't shooting back any more so I figured I'd KO'd him and looked for other targets. A couple of turns after that the so-and-so flamed my poor Archer ... turns out I'd hit him, shocked him, the crew broke and abandoned the tank and hid underneath, spent three turns or so listening to 17-pdr shells bounce off the front of the Panther, then rallied and got back in. My finer moment: a British fireteam trying to infiltrate the village got mostly blown away by the SS, and I was left with a single squad, no leader, and a 51mm MTR. That squad and that mortar proceeded to damn-near empty the town of SS to avenge his fallen mates. Boy was that barrel _hot_. The referee told me that nearly every shot was scoring a HE Critical, and even the ones that didn't were breaking every squad within range .... I don't think I'll ever repeat that run of luck . Gosh that was a fun weekend ... but I can't remember who won in the end .... Bruce (Melbourne, Australia) ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: 2 Glider thoughts > Thought 1 - Can anybody come up with a reason why a Damaged Landed Glider is a > Hindrance and a TEM while an Undamaged one is just a Hindrance? Maybe all the splinters and balls of fabric stop some bullets, where as whole struts, strung and holding fabric, just let them bullets zip on through? Or perhaps rubbled gliders provide more protection than whole gliders (just as loose bricks/stone do versus having them mortared together into a building). > Thought 2 - Shouldn't Gliders NOT be a Hindrance on the Player turn that they > land, kind of like a moving vehicle isn't a hindrance if you could apply Case J > to it? (This may in fact be the case, since Ordnance firing on a landed Glider > does indeed use case J.) Sounds reasonable. Although maybe a big, lumbering glider should be considered a _distraction_. Heck, I'd rather shoot up a glider than a squad - it is more fun - and in real life battle, you probably would be distracted by those suckers coming in. > Tom "OK, so I pull _back_ on the stick to go up, and ..." Repetti ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 11:19:24 EDT From: ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu (Jeff Kimmel) Subject: "War" Stories I just finished a game of "Under the Noel Trees", actually the German conceded when he had just three tanks left. Several interesting things in this one. I won the game without firing a bazooka. One of my M18's intensive fired 5 times and never came close to malfunctioning his gun. The German used intensive fire once and rolled box-cars, broken MA, recalled. I rolled snake-eyes on consecutive to-kill rolls, flaming two tanks and the squads they were carrying. The second shot was intensive fire :) The same M18 broke two squads with 3MC's and ELR'd a leader, again using intensive fire. My sniper wounded his best leader and stunned another tank. All in all, a very interesting game. Bye for now. Jeff Kimmel ujkimmel@mcs.drexel.edu "Ask Walt Ulicki about "Blazin' Chariots" and intensive fire" ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 11:37:44 +0500 From: dmk8r@server.cs.Virginia.EDU Subject: Battlefield Integrity I've owned ASL since day one, but only recently went to my first tourney (Winds of War) and met other players outside of my immediate family. Before going, I tried to brush up on the Battlefield Integrity rules since, although I had never used them, I had assumed that everybody else did - particularly the experts. I was amazed to discover that nobody seemed to use them. Is there anybody who actually uses the BI rules regularly? Is there any point in even trying to learn them? Should they have even been included in the ASLRB? If you want to mail me, I will post a summary to the list. ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 16:40:41 BST From: jr_tracy@il.us.swissbank.com (J. R. Tracy) Subject: Re: "War" Stories Two quickie War Stories: End of the Ninth: My opponent, as the French, activates my sniper with attacks by SMC, twice; each time the SMC was the sole French unit on the board, each time the sniper attack was fatal. Devil's Hill World Cup: Nils-Gunnar Nilsson sends me his move with the subject line "Devil's Hill Turn 3: My best DFPh Ever!" You can guess the rest... 8^o JR ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 12:01:14 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: War Stories Hi, Dade said: >Similarly, way back when I was an ASL-neophyte (6 years or more), I was playing >the Germans in OAF's Smasher Karl (excellent scenario, BTW). I had the Russian >attack contained the entire game, and on the last turn, his only chance of >winning required that he CX his 8-0 leader across 6 hexes to be able to advance >into a building. I had the route covered by 3 or 4 squads that were all in a >position to get both FFNAM and FFMO modifiers. Well, GUESS WHAT? He brushed >off a 2MC, a PTC, and another attack that missed completely and advanced in for >the win. Something similar _almost_ happened to me Saturday night. I had the Germans in the last turn of Chance D'une Affaire, and Carl's French had taken the needed two buildings and then surrounded the closer one to remove any theoretical chance of losing it. But he missed the fact that the other, empty victory building was 6 MF plus an advance away from my 247 (who was my only Good Order MMC), and didn't have quite as much firepower guarding it as would have been prudent. (It was after 3 a.m., which explains a lot.) So I started the blind CX charge through the open. First MC: snakes. HoB: hero. Yahoo! Continued in my advance, confident that a 9 ML unit could make it. Oh, yeah. It takes a MMC to wrest Control of an unoccupied building from your opponent. Still, you've gotta love a scenario where you get absolutely mauled yet have a mathematical chance at the end. Unfortunately, my 247 failed a mere PTC, and it was too late at night to see if the hero could do the job since he didn't count. But for one shining moment it looked like I might recreate Dade's story. Gripe: Why can a vehicle crew or 1 FP partisan/Italian/other junk HS Control a building better than a hero can? 149, buddy. Just try to take it back. Don't the AH guys watch bad movies? One guy can definitely hold a building against an infinite^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H really large amount of extras.) Bring on Totsugeki! and round two of Berserker II. Brian, are you going to start up any round two games before round one is finished? If not, would it help if I harassed the stragglers? :-> Dave "building Control freak" Ripton ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 13:32:12 EDT From: brian@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brian Youse) Subject: Re: "War" Stories Ahh, the stories I could tell... How about playtesting Gung Ho!. Beach Assault rules. I have a 10-2 (might have been a 10-3), some squads, some SW in a LC. First LC on the map, first hex, it swamps. Deep Ocean, all eliminated. Oh well, at least **I** was the first to "officially" swamp a LC. 8) Again, Gung Ho! Perry Cocke, playing the Chinese in Today We Attack! Launches the first (that I'm aware of, anyway) Chinese HumanWave/Armored Assault. He's got most of the damn Chinese OB "impulse moving" towards my one 347 with a lmg. I'm in deep doo-doo. Instead of laying a firelane or just shooting at the hordes of infantry, I get cocky. I fire the lmg at a tank TH. Hit, TKDR= 1,1 Got 'im!. Second impulse, I do EXACTLY THE SAME THING! Two Chinese tank wrecks. Of course, I get swarmed on and lose, but the look on PC's face was a stitch. CDG. 9-2, 3 squads, running confidently behind a hedge step in a hex with a sleaze LOS to the French 155 Arty. 6 hexes, moving in the open. 10 or less to hit. Yikes! My guys are toast! TH DR= 1,2 Critical Hit! Rnd Sel. 3,3,3,3. I'm not sure you could find the boots of those guys! And, of course, this darn Naval Gun which just fired some 300 yards from my guys stays concealed! Like I couldn't hear/see the flames licking from the barrel! I could go on but won't. 8) Brian ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:51:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Glenn E. Elliott" Subject: Re: "War" Stories On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Jeff Shields wrote: > We've all had strange and unusual things happen during games. To present > another trivia thread why don't y'all relate some of these stories. And > I'm not talking about critical hit duds unless they occurred more than > three times in a game! I'll start: How about twice in a row? I once had an 8 shot sequence from an American 81mm MTR which included two critical/duds in a row. 2-12-2-12 is a really frustrating sequence of DRs. Then there was also the three consecutive eyes I just had in CC vs Brian in Chance D'une Affaire. Burned a tank and captured two squads with those. J8 was truly blessed in that game. But by far the most strange and unusual thing that has ever happened to me was during playtesting for KGP. An American 57L AT Gun maintained ROF for _17_ consecutive shots. Naturally, I took IF for the 18th shot. The gun even managed to kill a Panther with a crit during that sequence. Glenn Elliott Coordinator, Research & Development Wizards of the Coast, Inc ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 16:08:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: "War" Stories A fun one this weekend at Summer Wars... Playing Desert Citadel from ASLUG. I had the Italians with the motorcycles. Matt Noah had the Free French. I'm getting frustrated with all the running in the open. So I have one squad hop on a motorcycle and just make a joy ride up to the Free French line. Well, he survives many attacks, all at -1. Matt's Prep FIre Phase sees these guys still mounted on their bikes. More attacks, several 8 FP, etc. Well, the second to last attack gets a K/2 on them. The resulting half-squad breaks. Now for the Bail-Out roll...snake eyes. The battle harden. Next attack yields a morale check...snake eyes, berserk! This halfsquad took a lot of heat off my other guys who saw that motorcycles can be your friend. This halfsquad ended up taking out another halfsquad in CC followed by a crew. The thing that surprised me most about this was that they were the Italians! *-=Carl=-* ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 14:52:00 -0600 (MDT) From: "Tim S. Hundsdorfer" Subject: D+9 (GOLD BEACH COMES TO DENVER) Steve, Your message got garbled and your return address was irretrievably lost, so I geuss you will get this with everyone else... Everyone Else... If you are not interested, hit the delete key now. --June 4, 1994--D+18,262 Place: Denver, CO Thirteen Colorado gamers got together for the Mother of All Scenarios--Gold Beach, as represented by 24 mapboards, more than a few overlays and thousands of counters. We started around 9:00am, gamers coming from as far south as Pueblo and as far north as (I think) Nederland, from which I left at 6:00. The planning was terrific. The British players had eleven turns to accomplish a variety of tasks, the most difficult of which was silencing the big guns. Some players were fast (My game went the fastest.) Some players went the distance--around midnight. There were, of course, liberal breaks for food and libations. On all fronts, the Germans took it on the chin. My sector involved protecting a little over a mile of beach with a platoon of second line squads and a company of conscripts--the finest men the Stalags for Soviet Prisoners could provide. The British came at me with around two dozen tanks and lots and lots of infantry. Despite reinforcements from the Panzer Lehr division, which our beloved commander Rommel had pried from the Fuhrer's stingy grasp, my sector was soon beaten badly and I was done around two o'clock, but fought on to protect the flanks of my fellows. Only the batteries held out to the last, hurling 14" shells out to the "Texas" et al. In the end, though, the British cleaned these out and the Germans had lost all down the line. This scenario was huge, twenty four mapboards covering sixteen feet of table. German counters were, of course, all used, and several sets of British counters were brought along for the fun. Information counters reached into the countably infinite range. Balanced, maybe not, but, well, I imagine that the real battle went pretty similarly. ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:09:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: RE: "War" Stories > The thing that surprised me most about this was that they were the Italians! What happened was the Italien half squad overheard the Free French exclaim the very same (above) remark. Quite naturally, the Italians went Berserk, er, rather, what passes for Berserk. Rushing headlong into close combat, the valiant Italians rapidly uncorked their wine bottles, threw around food like there was no end to it, regailed the Free French with song and dance as well as food & spirits and effectively sent them all packing in a drunken, bloated stupor. It's what we do, ya know? Paul "Ammuneetion? You don' needa no ammuneetion! Justa _looooove_ them to death." Ferraro ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:14:45 -0700 From: robert@chem.UCSD.EDU (Robert D. Feinstein) Subject: ASLNET still alive? Dear ASL net - I was on this mailing list some significant number of months ago (maybe 16-20?) and had to vanish due to a loss of net access. I am not currently on the list, but I'd be interested in getting back on it IF the mail traffic has been less than 5-15 per day. Regardless, I would like to post the following question. Please let me know if the ASL net is still alive. Best regards Robert ======================================================== Greetings ASL Gurus It is I, Robert, who you may (but probably don't) remember from the ASL net of about 1.5 years ago. Ah, those were the days. Then, graduation, loss of net access, etc... 8-( Well, I'm back on for now, and I have a burning question for any or all willing to answer. Five of us from the San Diego ASL Club are heading out to Avaloncon this year, and we are obviously pretty excited. Last year's tournament was a blast, and the tournament mechanics were orders of magnitude better than any West Coast tournament I've been to. We especially liked the system for choosing a scenario. However, of the four of us that went last year, not one of us managed to hang on to the scenario list from that tournament. Duh. Would anyone out there have the list in an e-mailable form? How about the scenario lists from previous years? I would really appreciate receiving a copy of whatever anyone could offer. And to anyone I might expect to run into this Avaloncon, let me know and us SDASLCers will track you down. Thanks, and may you have rate. Robert D. Feinstein ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 19:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: "War" Stories From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) One game had two particularly poignant moments. It was The_Commissar's_House, with me as the Russians. Poignant moment #1: The Germans set three DCs in one turn. He rolls snake eyes on the first two and a three on the third. I wept, I cried. There went building 20Z3. Or so I thought. Poignant moment #2: A Guards HS and my 9-1 (the last troops in 20Z3) undergo a grand total of six (count 'em, SIX) morale checks from multiple attacks in one turn. Nothing less than a 2MC, and I think there was a 4MC in there. Neither the HS nor the 9-1 broke. My opponent wept, and cried. It was turn 9. A Moment of Melodrama: His 10-2 got picked off by my sniper. On turn 1. Boy was he pissed. -- (J)ohn (D)ouglas Frazer Qui custodiet ipsos custodes? a481@mindlink.bc.ca Who will clean the janitors? Vancouver, British Columbia ----- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 22:41:10 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Battlefield Integrity Bruce said: >> Is there anybody who actually uses the BI rules regularly? Is there >> any point in even trying to learn them? Should they have even been >> included in the ASLRB? >I have used them more often than not. It's rarely difficult to work out and >keep track of; certainly no more difficult than counting VPs or PFs or >whatever . You count VP's and PF's? Wow. I find that the Germans never seem to use all their PF's except in stupid all-PF scenarios like Dash for the Bridge and Delaying Action. VP's are easier to count at the end, unless you're one of those Advanced players who modifies his strategy based on whether he's winning or losing. (I think of stuff like this the way casinos think of card counters.) I count tank hunter heroes, though; it's pretty easy to just make a stack of dead ones as you go. I'm amazed by the memory of some players. Like whoever said he saw 17 straight ROF's by a 57L ATG. I'm not saying this can't happen (though if I did it people would say the Pop-O-Matic is rigged) but I would have no idea what the count was. Rabbits in Bunnies&Burrows can only count to four; I can only count -1 acq, -2 acq, many. By the way, do all Australians use the Australian Balance provisions? :-> (I like 'em, personally, and I've never been Down Under.) Battlefield Integrity? Right. I have a hard enough time remembering where my HIP units are, let alone taking notes as I play. Seriously, the problem with optional rules is that many players will only agree to use them when they're to their advantage. For example, when one side has a BI base on the scenario card but the other doesn't, only one side benefits. It's similar for prisoner interrogation. Or the IIFT if only one side has 3-FP or 5-FP units. (Uh-oh. I'm ducking.) These thingees should be shoved in [Australian] balance provisions more often so that they get more use. Dave "Can I use the optional ASL Jr. rules?" Ripton ----- Date: 15 Jun 94 21:43:20 EDT From: Bruce Probst <100033.3661@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Battlefield Integrity dmkr8r@server.cs.virginia.edu (what a strange name!) writes: >> Is there anybody who actually uses the BI rules regularly? Is there >> any point in even trying to learn them? Should they have even been >> included in the ASLRB? I have used them more often than not. It's rarely difficult to work out and keep track of; certainly no more difficult than counting VPs or PFs or whatever . Bruce (Melbourne, Australia) ----- Date: 16 Jun 94 01:33:20 EDT From: Bruce Probst <100033.3661@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Battlefield Integrity Dave writes: >> By the way, do all Australians use the Australian Balance provisions? >> :-> (I like 'em, personally, and I've never been Down Under.) Beats me, I've never used them. I've never played in an ASL tourney. >> Battlefield Integrity? Right. I have a hard enough time remembering >> where my HIP units are, let alone taking notes as I play. I use the Chapter J (or Chapter N) divider, and the various little markers that were included with Hedgerow Hell etc. It's all there and in one place ... doesn't get much easier, IMO. Bruce (Melbourne, Australia) ----- From: Neal Smith Subject: Optional Armament Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 08:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Hi All, Am I getting as annoying as Matt, yet? ;-) BTW, which Matt is the "original" annoying one? Anyway, where is the rule/table that you roll against for optional armament and special goodies like Schurzen (sp), gyros, etc. ? I thought I read it in the chapter H stuff, but it just seemed too easy to get some of these items. Can anyone explain the process? Thanks, Neal Smith sasrns@unx.sas.com ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 10:05:16 -0400 Subject: Net.ettiquette Item Subject: Message text I don't want to be a net.fascist (pulling out my blue SMC), but could I suggest that when someone volunteers to recieve posts via personal email and summarize to the list that we take him up on it? Twice in the last week or so we've had replies to posters that offered this (Newsgroup vs email and Battlefield Integrity posts). Inevitably those of us who followed directions end up having to decide if we should get involved in discussion on the list when we've already made our submission to the survey. david "if this were a Newsgroup it wouldn't be a problem " wetzel ----- From: Magnus Hindsberger Subject: postscript board 7 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 16:41:31 METDST Hello out there, Could anybody please tell mee a place (ftp) to find the ASL-board #7 as a postscriptfile. Thanks in advance... ---------------------- _____ /__\ Magnus Hindsberger gc928519@gbar.dtu.dk /_______\ \=\---/=/ > Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive? < ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 17:09:50 UTC+0100 From: Andres Riaguas Subject: HoB & FPF question Hi , Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? (I think the answer is yes.) B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? C) If a SAN happen instead of the 1-1, we must roll 1 or 3 dr for the sniper attack?. (The russians berserks squads was melted by a FT and the leader wounded and captured in CC.) //////////////////o-----o\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Andres Riaguas Universidad de Zaragoza. Espan~a \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\o-----o////////////////// ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 12:05:28 +0500 From: dmk8r@server.cs.Virginia.EDU Subject: Battlefield Integrity summary As promised, for your reading pleasure, the results of the very-informal Battelfield Integrity poll: Always use BI : 4 Never use BI: 4 Depends on opponent: 4 PBEM only: 1 Some of the more interesting comments follow: IMO BI effects are nowhere near severe enough. In SL the effect of failing a BI check was to immediatly lose one morale level to all units. Now the effect is just a lowered ELR. To this end I think i'd much prefer the campaign games (RB & KGP) which stress conservation of force. I use the BI rules regularly - we have seen little effect of BI, and have seen ELR drop only a couple times, out of dozens of games played. although it can be devastating to drop from ELR 3 to ELR 2.... I use the Avalon Hill GAP, and it has a BI function that does all the paperwork wonderfully.....I would not use BI if I didn't have that... My one credo for ASL is "there are no optional rules". I've played with B.I. since day one so it is second nature to me. Admittedly, it rarely has an effect and by the time you take an ELR loss, you've had it! This section is actually very easy andd one of the few without mistakes. Learn it. It won't take long. Not that scnarios aren't playtsted with BI rules in effect. Some scenarios where one side has a low morale can become heavily unbalanced by the use of this rule. Well, it certainly adds to the game. You have to worry a bit more about losing MMC because it may drop your ELR. Once you've been mauled enough you start really worrying about those losses. Tends to temper those reckless all-out attacks a bit. My ~2 years of experience with BI, showed that they had no effect on the outcome of a scenario. When the losses were so high that an ELR loss happened, the scenario was all but over... I have't used BI for a long time now. But the ELR reduction idea isn't bad, maybe specifying certain things in an SSR that would prompt a BI roll would be better. Things like the loss of that single tank or leader... or the loss of a crucial building when defending... ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 18:23:05 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, > 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. > A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? > (I think the answer is yes.) No. See the debriefing in the 91 annual. > B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then > both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status > and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? I don't think the order is specified, but it seems logical to do it like that. > C) If a SAN happen instead of the 1-1, we must roll 1 or 3 dr for the > sniper attack?. One. No reference for this, but I think it is fairly clear that it is one DR, therefore only one sniper attack dr. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 13:15:07 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question >> Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, >> 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. >> A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? >> (I think the answer is yes.) Patrik's answer: > No. See the debriefing in the 91 annual. (It says to use Random Selection, in case you don't have one handy.) >> B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then >> both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status >> and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? > I don't think the order is specified, but it seems logical to do it > like that. I disagree. I think all the units that are affected should roll their HoB first, then roll any Berserk TC's. This is analagous to the way LLMC/LLTC are handled. Give 'em a chance to Battle Harden or make heroes before they go Berserk; they earned it with the tie on the RS roll. Dave Ripton ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 11:13:51 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question > Hi , > > Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, > 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. > A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? > (I think the answer is yes.) As was pointed out the '91 debriefing says to use Random Selection. Sorry Matt, but with eyes all units pass their MC, but only one (usually) gets to roll for HoB. I would assume that the same applys if a 12 was rolled, RS would be used to determine who is effected by the CR. > B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then > both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status > and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? In a normal attack the MC (and any HoB) would be rolled for each unit before any Berserk TC are rolled. I would assume that the same would apply here. > C) If a SAN happen instead of the 1-1, we must roll 1 or 3 dr for the > sniper attack?. Only one sniper dr would be made since only 1 eyes was rolled even though the effects apply to several units. > > > (The russians berserks squads was melted by a FT and the leader > wounded and captured in CC.) > > > > //////////////////o-----o\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > Andres Riaguas > Universidad de Zaragoza. Espan~a > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\o-----o////////////////// > ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 11:32:25 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Couple of Questions An american marine mmc is broken and encircled ADJACENT to a Japaneese mmc in a cave. > He has valid route paths. > > What happens? Is he eliminated to failure to rout since encircled ADJACENT and broken > usually surrender -- but No Quarter is in effect -- or does he attempt to low-crawl/route? If No Quarter in not in effect (early war) he will surrender. If No Quarter is in effect he will ignor the surrender part of being encircled and attempt to rout (including low crawl). > > A American MMC in a gully(say Level 0) wishes to place a DC in an ADJACENT cave which is at > Level 1. Must he declare crest status first (for 2MF) and then 2MF to place it? Can he > jsut declare 4MF and place it? Either will work. > > What if there is smoke in his hex, how many movement points must he expend? Smoke in his hex has ne effect on the DC placement. > > If you place 2 DCs in a cave and the first one KIAs it -- do you have to roll the second > for sniper purposes? IMHO, yes since it will still go off. Fred > > mike > ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 11:48:14 PDT [stuff about using Random Selection to pick which unit HoB's when an FG rolls a 2 in FPF deleted] Matt Shostak writes: > *************************************************************************** > ALERT! ALERT! ALERT! NO-RULEBOOK-RULES-POSING IMMINENT! ALERT! ALERT! > *************************************************************************** > > > Geez, I sure don't like that answer. Okay, no RB handy, but I seem to > remember that in FPF if you rolled an 8 or something, it is as if each unit > had rolled an 8 on its MC, with all that entails. So on a snake eyes, I > figure that it should be the same way, that each unit rolled snakes on > its MC, with the resulting HOB. I'm surprised the question ever came up, > and I feel that the answer from AH is weak. Am I totally missing the boat > yet again? > > Matt > "took over the more annoying title with the start of the stacking thread" Well, I can see where you're coming from. According to just the RB, it does seem that they all get HoB rolls. HOWEVER, given that HoB is intended to be a relatively rare event, I think the correct answer from a design point of view is that only one unit SHOULD make an HoB roll. -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 14:02:17 -0400 Subject: HoB & FPF question Item Subject: Message text > Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, > 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. > A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? > (I think the answer is yes.) Probably true by the letter of the rules, but I'd suggest a random selection and HOB only that unit (though rs could select all three of course). > B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then > both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status > and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? I always try to do things leader first. I'd still have the squads do HOB though, they might have battle hardening which would be useful later. > C) If a SAN happen instead of the 1-1, we must roll 1 or 3 dr for the > sniper attack?. I'm not sure what the question is here. What you'd do is roll the sniper check (1 or 2 on a dr to have any effect). Then you'd do the scatter routine to see who's affected. Assuming it was this stack selected, you'd do random selection and apply the result to the unit or units selected. > (The russians berserks squads was melted by a FT and the leader > wounded and captured in CC.) Ah, the fickle fortunes of war! -dlw ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 21:32:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: "War" Stories In message Wed, 15 Jun 1994 17:09:41 -0400 (EDT), Paul F Ferraro writes: >> The thing that surprised me most about this was that they were the >> Italians! > > Paul "Ammuneetion? You don' needa no ammuneetion! Justa _looooove_ them > to death." Ferraro In message Wed, 15 Jun 94 14:15:24, tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) writes: > What, you think we Italians don't have heroism deep in our blood? Eh? > Why, I oughta smacka u upsida da head... Geez, ya would think you guys would have played the Italians by now. An Italian hero is about as unlikely as a Japanese guy _not_ going berserk! And, Paul, you're right; it must have been the vino. The French got the whole idea for wine from the Romans (I think.) Oh, and Tom, I thought you wuz Finnish, Mr. Repettinen. Or were you trying to say you wuz "finished", as in whooped on, you little fugutive. :-) ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 21:40:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Carl D. Fago" Subject: RE: Summer Wars In message Tue, 14 Jun 94 06:56:39 EST, "Cocke, Perry" writes: > "Game 2 was against Chuck Goetz....and misreading of the > overlays, confusing Orchard overlays for Open Ground > overlays...." > > Chuck didn't tell me about this part, just the bad luck. And > Carl's good play. This probably made the British job a little easier but, even if the additional olive groves would have slowed me down by a turn, I'm not sure the outcome would have been significantly different. Chuck just couldn't buy a good roll. > "Brian noted... as he was whining and winning in our game of > Totsugeki! at midnight on Saturday...." > > Brian was indeed in rare form in that game, whining his say to > victory while taking the art of whining to new levels. And no comment from Brian? > All in good fun, unless, like Carl, you have to listen and lose. Carl > took it all in stride, especially considering that he was 3-0 at > the time with a legitimate shot at winning and was playing > someone who was 0-1 in official tournament play and was > officially designated as Carl's personal "spoiler" because the > other soon-to-be 3-0 contender, Ray Woloszyn, was still wrapped > up in his game with Pokey "Perry" Cocke. Well, it wasn't the 3-0 and getting handed the loss that was the kicker. I think it was the late night that made the end less enjoyable than it could have been. Brian played a good game and I'd play it again in a heartbeat...even against Brian. Hmmm, it's coming up in Round 2 of the Berserker II tourney :-/. You're duckin' me Perry. ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 17:39:36 PDT [I don't know who the original poster was] > > C) If a SAN happen instead of the 1-1, we must roll 1 or 3 dr for the > > sniper attack?. JR wrote: > I don't completely understand this. If the SAN were rolled, > a dr would be made. If a 1 or 2, a direction and distance > DR would be made. The sniper counter would be moved to the > appropriate spot. If the sniper happened to drop on this > stack, random selection would determine who was hit, all > per the normal sniper rules. FPF doesn't change the > behavior of the sniper. I think his point was that three units are taking an MC, and all three effectively have rolled the SAN with a single roll. Does this trigger one sniper check or three? -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- Date: 16 Jun 94 19:26:38 EDT From: Bruce Probst <100033.3661@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Battlefield Integrity Patrik writes: >> Now, do you have five rulebooks as well? Would be necessary to play >> multiple email games... :-) What? Doesn't _everyone_ like ASL so much they buy multiple copies of the rules? Seriously, if I needed multiple copies for multiple games (which personally I don't, since I don't play games by e-mail - at least not at this point in time) then I would (looks sneakily left, then right) (speaks in low whisper) _photocopy_ the Chapter K divider (not Chapter N, as I said yesterday). If it needed to be "rugged" for some reason it could be mounted on cardboard. Actually, if you didn't have enough marker counters (and for how many situations in ASL can you say "there aren't enough counters!" ) you could just pencil in stuff on the photocopies. Bruce (Melbourne, Australia) ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 16:04:41 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Re: Couple of Questions > An american marine mmc is broken and encircled ADJACENT to a Japaneese mmc in a cave. > > He has valid route paths. > > > > What happens? Is he eliminated to failure to rout since encircled ADJACENT and broken > > usually surrender -- but No Quarter is in effect -- or does he attempt to low-crawl/route? > > If No Quarter in not in effect (early war) he will surrender. If No Quarter is in effect he > will ignor the surrender part of being encircled and attempt to rout (including low crawl). > Its ambiguous in the rules -- technically it seems as if he were eliminated for failure to rout -- I don;t have my rulebook here but the encircled mmc does not fall into the exception for prisoners rule and No Quarter doesn't specifically mention it either. Was yours a gut feel -- or can you give some evidence? -- BTW we went with the gut feel, but then it was moot as the 2 additional DCs removed the ADJACENT. Oh -- that leads me to another question. Squad moves into encircled position as described above -- is the placement cost 8MF (double the 4 -- technically though he hasn't left the hex)? Does he get a +1 on his DC attack for the encirclement? Do these questions ever end? mike ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 12:33:00 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Hob &FPF question > > Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) writes: > > >> Hi , > >> > >> Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, > >> 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. > >> A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? > >> (I think the answer is yes.) > > >As was pointed out the '91 debriefing says to use Random Selection. > >Sorry Matt, but with eyes all units pass their MC, but only one (usually) > >gets to roll for HoB. I would assume that the same applys if a 12 was > >rolled, RS would be used to determine who is effected by the CR. > > Well if we're going to extend RS to the unit that gets HOB/CR then we > also use RS to determine the MMC/SMC that gets broken by the FPF roll? > I know the rules don't say that, but it seems to follow from the two > exceptional cases. HoB and CR represent more extreme events than does braking. I believe that is why RS is used to determine which unit is effected, rather than effecting all units. Fred > > John Mantey john@microtekintl.com Microtek International > ...!uunet!data!john 3300 NW 211th Terrace > Those who know what's best for us, Hillsboro, OR 97124 > Must rise and save us from ourselves. - "Witch Hunt" - RUSH > ----- Subject: Desert terrain From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 14:45:00 -0640 Howdy, tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) writes: > Hillocks are what got me this time. "A unit can see past the > first hillock, past the second hillock, and even beyond the > THIRD hillock to parts of Sheboygan which he has LOS to." > HUH? I read the footnote about thinking of a hillock as a > "thick wall," but that didn't cut it. "Thick walls" only works if you are standing on ground level. When you are _on_ a hillock you can see past the first one you encounter (besides the one you are on) and then the "thick walls" kick in. "Thick walls," BTW, means you can see on the hillock or to the hex immediately behind it. It is like a wall, except that walls are "thin" so you can never be "on" a wall. > And wadis, well, let's just say I'm not ever gonna enter one > with a vehicle for fear of coming under those rules and > examples. It LOOKS simple; why are the rules so elaborate? Don't tell your opponent. It'll put you at a disadvantage. Wadis are nearly identical to gullies except that vehicles && Guns can go into crest status in them. Most of the rules deal with this new feature. Wadis are the least difficult of the rules. I could never get Diers. JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Subject: HoB & FPF question From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 14:45:00 -0640 Howdy, Andres Riaguas writes: > Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, > 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. > A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? >From the Q&A: A8.31 "If a FG of >= two units rolls an Original 2 (or 12) for its FPF attack, does each of those units make a Heat of Battle DR (or suffer a Casualty MC)? A. No - use Random Selection." {91} > B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then > both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status > and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? [I think you mean a "NTC" instead of a "PTC."] Assume all three units were selected by random selection. A15.41 says "[a]fter the fire which caused a leader to go berserk is resolved against any remaining targets in that Location, the berserk leader must attempt to change any other friendly units ... in the same Location to berserk status also." This means that the HoB would be resolved for the other units first, then the leader would try to "drive them mad." > C) If a SAN happen instead of the 1-1, we must roll 1 or 3 dr for the > sniper attack?. I don't completely understand this. If the SAN were rolled, a dr would be made. If a 1 or 2, a direction and distance DR would be made. The sniper counter would be moved to the appropriate spot. If the sniper happened to drop on this stack, random selection would determine who was hit, all per the normal sniper rules. FPF doesn't change the behavior of the sniper. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 11:31:44 CDT From: seningen@ross.com (Mike Seningen) Subject: Couple of Questions An american marine mmc is broken and encircled ADJACENT to a Japaneese mmc in a cave. He has valid route paths. What happens? Is he eliminated to failure to rout since encircled ADJACENT and broken usually surrender -- but No Quarter is in effect -- or does he attempt to low-crawl/route? A American MMC in a gully(say Level 0) wishes to place a DC in an ADJACENT cave which is at Level 1. Must he declare crest status first (for 2MF) and then 2MF to place it? Can he jsut declare 4MF and place it? What if there is smoke in his hex, how many movement points must he expend? If you place 2 DCs in a cave and the first one KIAs it -- do you have to roll the second for sniper purposes? mike ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 12:20 PDT From: john@data.microtekintl.com (John Mantey) Subject: Re: Hob &FPF question Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) writes: >> Hi , >> >> Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, >> 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. >> A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? >> (I think the answer is yes.) >As was pointed out the '91 debriefing says to use Random Selection. >Sorry Matt, but with eyes all units pass their MC, but only one (usually) >gets to roll for HoB. I would assume that the same applys if a 12 was >rolled, RS would be used to determine who is effected by the CR. Well if we're going to extend RS to the unit that gets HOB/CR then we also use RS to determine the MMC/SMC that gets broken by the FPF roll? I know the rules don't say that, but it seems to follow from the two exceptional cases. John Mantey john@microtekintl.com Microtek International ...!uunet!data!john 3300 NW 211th Terrace Those who know what's best for us, Hillsboro, OR 97124 Must rise and save us from ourselves. - "Witch Hunt" - RUSH ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 12:41:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: Re: Optional Equipment > For regular scenarios, you don't get any equipment not shown on the > scenario card. No gyros or Sz without SSR. Wait a minute...is that right? So any M4s the US player gets do not have gyros unless stated in the SSR? Hoo-boy, I been doin' that wrong forever. Paul ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 11:04:22 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Desert terrain Took another crack at Ch. F again, and at least got further into it before failing the Desert Terrain TC. Maybe with a tail wind... Deirs don't seem too bad. (BTW, is it pronounced "day-er" or "deer" or what?) Hillocks are what got me this time. "A unit can see past the first hillock, past the second hillock, and even beyond the THIRD hillock to parts of Sheboygan which he has LOS to." HUH? I read the footnote about thinking of a hillock as a "thick wall," but that didn't cut it. And wadis, well, let's just say I'm not ever gonna enter one with a vehicle for fear of coming under those rules and examples. It LOOKS simple; why are the rules so elaborate? Please, anybody with some clues or hints here about making sense of desert terrain? Tom "Over a quarter century of cluelessness" ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 11:22:22 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Optional Equipment Neal asked: >Am I getting as annoying as Matt, yet? ;-) No, but keep at it. > BTW, which Matt is the "original" annoying one? Matt Brown would claim that title, though I was annoyed first by Matt Shostak when he beat me in a PBEM scenario after I thought I had it in the bag. > Anyway, where is the rule/table that you roll against for optional >armament and special goodies like Schurzen (sp), gyros, etc. ? Chapter H. > I thought I read it in the chapter H stuff, but it just seemed too >easy to get some of these items. > Can anyone explain the process? For DYO, you do it just like Chapter H says. For regular scenarios, you don't get any equipment not shown on the scenario card. No gyros or Sz without SSR. The exception is that if you get six of the same tank, for example, and there are only four counters without an optional MG and two with it, you get to use the two tanks with the optional MG since the countermix forces it. I wish more scenarios had tanks with gyros. Good Australian Balance provision for the Americans, anyway. Dave "Learning to be more annoying" Ripton ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 12:55:17 CDT From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question > From ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com Thu Jun 16 12:17:09 1994 > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 13:15:07 EDT > From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) > To: asl@tpocc.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: Re: HoB & FPF question > Content-Length: 910 > > >> Here is another question HoB. In our RB game, a stack with a 9-1, > >> 6-2-8 and a 5-2-7 (in a factory) rolled a 1-1 in a FPF. > >> A)Is HoB applicable to all tree units? > >> (I think the answer is yes.) > > Patrik's answer: > > > No. See the debriefing in the 91 annual. > > (It says to use Random Selection, in case you don't have one handy.) *************************************************************************** ALERT! ALERT! ALERT! NO-RULEBOOK-RULES-POSING IMMINENT! ALERT! ALERT! *************************************************************************** Geez, I sure don't like that answer. Okay, no RB handy, but I seem to remember that in FPF if you rolled an 8 or something, it is as if each unit had rolled an 8 on its MC, with all that entails. So on a snake eyes, I figure that it should be the same way, that each unit rolled snakes on its MC, with the resulting HOB. I'm surprised the question ever came up, and I feel that the answer from AH is weak. Am I totally missing the boat yet again? Matt "took over the more annoying title with the start of the stacking thread" > > >> B) The leader take first his HoB result and changed to berserk then > >> both squads passed a PTC -1 and also changed to berserk status > >> and no HoB DR for them. Is this correct? > > > I don't think the order is specified, but it seems logical to do it > > like that. > > I disagree. I think all the units that are affected should roll their > HoB first, then roll any Berserk TC's. This is analagous to the way > LLMC/LLTC are handled. Give 'em a chance to Battle Harden or make > heroes before they go Berserk; they earned it with the tie on the > RS roll. > > Dave Ripton > ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:31:11 +0000 (GMT) From: TOWEY@statlan.ucd.ie Subject: FALLING DOWN Just a quick question sans rulebook.Playing a scenario last night I (as the Germans) brought down 100mm OBA on top of some Russkies in a level two building,and rolled double ones!!Now the whole hex was rubbled complete with all the RED SCUM inside.Here is where the question arises,the hex that was rubbled was the hex that had the only stairwell in this three hex building thus leaving a 9-2 two squads and two machine guns stuck on level two.I know only commandos can scale buildings but is there any way these guys can get down and run away instead of waiting to die. K. ----- Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:54:29 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: Blind hexes Gents- As a peruser of both GEnie and the internet list, I have come across these two formulas for calculating the number of blind hexes behind an obstacle. I reckon one of them is right, but after looking through the rules until I'm silly, I'm not sure which one. Let's let one of you math whiz boys set me straight. Method 1: Blind hexes= 2*Ho-Hv-Ht+trun(Ro/5) {-1 if crest} where Ho is height of obstacle Hv is height of viewer (always the higher of the two units) Ht is the height of the target and Ro is the range to the obstacle Method 2: Blind hexes = (2*Ho) -Hv-Ht+INT(Ro/5) +y where all abreviations are the same and y=0 if obstacle is Crest or y=1 if obstacle is not Crest (including cliff drops greater than one level unless firer is at the cliff) The two formulas are identical except for the handling of the Crest business. So which is it, or they both saying the same thing with different semantics? -Grant. ... "Nurse! I said: "SLIP off his SPECtacles!" -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 07:40:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul F Ferraro Subject: RE: "War" Stories (fwd) > Geez, ya would think you guys would have played the Italians by now. An > Italian hero is about as unlikely as a Japanese guy _not_ going berserk! > > And, Paul, you're right; it must have been the vino. The French got the > whole idea for wine from the Romans (I think.) > > Oh, and Tom, I thought you wuz Finnish, Mr. Repettinen. > > Or were you trying to say you wuz "finished", as in whooped on, you little > fugutive. In the words of the famous Italien, Bugs Bunetti, "Dis means war." And in the true (war time) Italian fashion, a noble leader is chosen due to a (lack of) consensus among (not so) great minds. This means that Tom gets to respond on behalf of all us other Italians who are too busy to respond because we are getting out the wine bottles in preparation for Tom's scaithing (beserk) attack. Where's the cork screw? Paul ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: FALLING DOWN Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 13:46:02 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > Just a quick question sans rulebook.Playing a scenario last night I > (as the Germans) brought down 100mm OBA on top of some Russkies in a > level two building,and rolled double ones!!Now the whole hex was > rubbled complete with all the RED SCUM inside.Here is where the > question arises,the hex that was rubbled was the hex that had the > only stairwell in this three hex building thus leaving a 9-2 two > squads and two machine guns stuck on level two.I know only commandos > can scale buildings but is there any way these guys can get down and > run away instead of waiting to die. Not as far as I know of, and furthermore they would be Encircled for being unable to trace a path to the ground floor! -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: Blind hexes Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 14:01:13 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > As a peruser of both GEnie and the internet list, I have come across these > two formulas for calculating the number of blind hexes behind an obstacle. > I reckon one of them is right, but after looking through the rules until > I'm silly, I'm not sure which one. Let's let one of you math whiz boys set > me straight. OK, let's have a go at this: > Method 1: > > Blind hexes= 2*Ho-Hv-Ht+trun(Ro/5) {-1 if crest} > > where Ho is height of obstacle > Hv is height of viewer (always the higher of the two units) > Ht is the height of the target > and Ro is the range to the obstacle Hmmm.... With a viewing unit at level 2, a obstacle of height 1, and the target at level 0. With a range to the obstacle of 2 this would yield: 2*1 -2 -0 +INT(2/5) = 0 This is obviously wrong. > Method 2: > > Blind hexes = (2*Ho) -Hv-Ht+INT(Ro/5) +y > > where all abreviations are the same > and y=0 if obstacle is Crest > or y=1 if obstacle is not Crest (including cliff drops greater than > one level unless firer is at the cliff) Now, we put the viewing unit at level 3 instead, with the rest of the values being the same. We get: 2*1 -3 -0 +INT(2/5) +1 = 0 Which is wrong, too! For even more fun, let's say we have a level 2 obstacle in the first example. Then we get: 2*2 -2 -0 +INT(2/5) = 2 Which is wrong as well. OK, I'm nitpicking here - trying to point out some things to be careful about when using those formulas. We should of course remember that the number of blind hexes from a non-crest obstacle is a minimum of the height of the obstacle (I think, otherwise it is 1). Also, the viewer will have to be higher than the obstacle for the formula to work. > The two formulas are identical except for the handling of the Crest > business. So which is it, or they both saying the same thing with > different semantics? Taking the above into consideration, if we have a nice problem then the latter (which adds zero for crest lines and one for others) is correct. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!" ----- Subject: BLIND HEXES From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 08:30:00 -0640 Howdy, N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) writes: [Two formulas for blind hexes, which is correct?] GL>Blind hexes= 2*Ho-Hv-Ht+trun(Ro/5) {-1 if crest} GL>where Ho is height of obstacle GL> Hv is height of viewer (always the higher of the two units) GL> Ht is the height of the target GL>and Ro is the range to the obstacle This formula is incorrect. If you have a viewer on a level two hill looking over a level one obstacle at 5 hexes or less, it says there are zero ( 2*1 - 2 - 0 + 0 = 0 ) blind hexes. It looks like a formula I wrote, but my printed copy here has a "+1", which will make it equivalent to the second formula. It should read: Blind hexes= 2*Ho-Hv-Ht+1+trun(Ro/5) {-1 if crest} Removing the "+1" and changing the "{-1 if crest}" to "{+1 if not crest}" will make it a bit more elegent. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 08:49:34 From: tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) Subject: Re: RE: "War" Stories (fwd) > > In the words of the famous Italien, Bugs Bunetti, "Dis means war." > > And in the true (war time) Italian fashion, a noble leader is chosen due > to a (lack of) consensus among (not so) great minds. This means that Tom > gets to respond on behalf of all us other Italians who are too busy to > respond because we are getting out the wine bottles in preparation for > Tom's scaithing (beserk) attack. > Who, me? > >> The thing that surprised me most about this was that they were the > >> Italians! > > > > Paul "Ammuneetion? You don' needa no ammuneetion! Justa _looooove_ them > > to death." Ferraro > > In message Wed, 15 Jun 94 14:15:24, tqr@inel.gov (Tom Repetti) writes: > > > What, you think we Italians don't have heroism deep in our blood? Eh? > > Why, I oughta smacka u upsida da head... > See, this is easily explained in terms of Italian geography. Paul's heritage obviously comes from Southern Italy, where the vino flows freely, red sauce is slathered over every possible main dish, and heroism on motorcycles is best left to watching old reruns of "Mannix." Whereas my family hails from Northern Italy, where the infamous Alp Effect (thin air, tight knickers) leads to a somewhat more testosterone-laced approach to things. That's the best I can do, Paul. Carl has the Big Whammy on me from the Fugitives, and until I whup on him again, he's got bragging rights. BESIDES, isn't "Fago" Italian? Tom Eastern European Mongrel, despite the surname. ----- From: "Jeff Shields" Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 20:57:45 EDT Subject: Re: Couple of Questions On Thu, 16 Jun 94 16:04:41 CDT, Mike Seningen wrote: >> An american marine mmc is broken and encircled ADJACENT to a Japaneese mmc in a cave. >> > He has valid route paths. >> > >> > What happens? Is he eliminated to failure to rout since encircled ADJACENT and broken >> > usually surrender -- but No Quarter is in effect -- or does he attempt to low-crawl/route? >> If No Quarter is in effect, the unit low crawls or routs even if Disrupted (unless it has to move adjacent to a known enemy GO unit in which case it dies). If No Quarter is not in effect, the unit should surrender. Dr. Jeffrey Shields CBNERRVA, Virginia Institute of Marine Science Gloucester Point, VA 23062 jeff@back.vims.edu ( ) ( ) (^ ^) (^ ^) (^) . . (^) \\ 0 | | 0 // \\__\\|}{|//__// \^ ^^ ^/ <====\^ ( ) ^/====> <====\^ ^/====> <====\ /====> ()===(____)===() ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 14:35:51 +0000 (GMT) From: TOWEY@statlan.ucd.ie Subject: war story Picture 3 German elite squads in melee with one US squad (it was three vs three).Now picture another area of combat close by where HOB causes a US hero to stand up and say "hey dem Germans are making too much noise" so he proceeds to grab a DC from his pals run four hexs riding a 2MC and then chucks his DC into the melee.He obviously screamed "heads down lads" because the GI's passed their MC but the hapless Germans fell like ninepins all breaking.If that wasnt enough his miserable 1FP then double breaks two of the squads and all the Germans were cut down like dogs in the next CC.Sickening! K ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 08:53:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Serafini Subject: followup on d-day book hello again, about three weeks ago i started babbling about books about d-day. it turned out that i was on the right track about one of the books, night drop, by s.l.a. marshall. (thanks rusty) i checked it out of the library last week, and it is pretty much as i remembered, a book that contains the tactical details of battles. it is basically made up of stories of individual commanders/soldiers, and it is a very impressive book. it is interesting to read about what kind of problems that the paratroops had to deal with after they dropped. well, after reading about 30 pages or so, i had all of these great ideas for scenarios. then i looked again at the published paratrooper scenarios. most of my ideas were already there. oh well, so i decided to just read the book for pleasure, instead of just inspiration. one other thing, though, is that the book contains fairly detailed maps that cover the entire 82nd airborne's drop zones. if you wanted to have a campaign game sort of thing with that, the maps are there. well, i just wanted to follow up on the book thing that i mentioned before. if you are interested in reading about some of the d-day action, night drop is excellent. have fun, kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Kevin Serafini | e-mail: | | Westinghouse Electric Corporation | serafik@cecil.pgh.wec.com | | Software Technology & Development | s-mail: | | (412) 374-5041 | P.O. Box 355 | | WIN 284-5041 | Pittsburgh, PA 15230 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "All animals are created equal, although some are more equal than others." | | - George Orwell, Animal Farm | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Subject: Re: Blind hexes From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 09:56:00 -0640 Howdy, Patrik Manlig writes: MA> OK, I'm nitpicking here - trying to point out some things to be careful MA> about when using those formulas. We should of course remember that the MA> number of blind hexes from a non-crest obstacle is a minimum of the MA> height of the obstacle (I think, otherwise it is 1). Also, the viewer MA> will have to be higher than the obstacle for the formula to work. Patrik is correct that there is a minimum number of blind hexes, but inaccurate as to its value: A6.42 "For every elevation advantage > one level over an obstacle, decrease the number of Blind Hexes created by that obstacle by one, to a minimum of one [EXC: non-Cliff Crest Lines may have their Blind Hexes reduced to none by suffcient elevation advantage; B10.23]." The formulas are intended to cover nearly all situations. I don't frequently encounter a situation where the minimum is invoked, but if you do, you could add a "min( 1 [if not crest], whatever )" to the formulas. So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 11:14:48 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Re: war story >Picture 3 German elite squads in melee with one US squad (it was three >vs three).Now picture another area of combat close by where HOB >causes a US hero to stand up and say "hey dem Germans are making too >much noise" so he proceeds to grab a DC from his pals run four hexs >riding a 2MC and then chucks his DC into the melee.He obviously >screamed "heads down lads" because the GI's passed their MC but the >hapless Germans fell like ninepins all breaking.If that wasnt enough >his miserable 1FP then double breaks two of the squads and all the >Germans were cut down like dogs in the next CC.Sickening! Awesome. It's usually those 8 ML Germans that fire into melees with the Yanks, so I'm glad it evens out sometimes. But the hero (like any HS or SMC) should have lost his inherent 1FP in the fire phases of the player turn when he used a DC. Dave "Not that I like Yanks, BTW; they just beat the O's." Ripton ----- From: Wetzel_Dave/sra_hq1@misx12.mis.stratus.com Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 10:20:20 -0400 Subject: FALLING DOWN Item Subject: Message text > Just a quick question sans rulebook.Playing a scenario last night I > (as the Germans) brought down 100mm OBA on top of some Russkies in a > level two building,and rolled double ones!!Now the whole hex was > rubbled complete with all the RED SCUM inside.Here is where the > question arises,the hex that was rubbled was the hex that had the > only stairwell in this three hex building thus leaving a 9-2 two > squads and two machine guns stuck on level two.I know only commandos > can scale buildings but is there any way these guys can get down and > run away instead of waiting to die. Well, if the building's a factory it may still have other stairwells. I think it's the hexes where roads come in that have unprinted stairs. Otherwize, it's "Hey Bobby, get the rope!" -dlw ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 09:06:05 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: Re: Couple of Questions > > > An american marine mmc is broken and encircled ADJACENT to a Japaneese mmc in a cave. > > > He has valid route paths. > > > > > > What happens? Is he eliminated to failure to rout since encircled ADJACENT and broken > > > usually surrender -- but No Quarter is in effect -- or does he attempt to low-crawl/route? > > > > If No Quarter in not in effect (early war) he will surrender. If No Quarter is in effect he > > will ignor the surrender part of being encircled and attempt to rout (including low crawl). > > > > Its ambiguous in the rules -- technically it seems as if he were eliminated for failure to > rout -- I don;t have my rulebook here but the encircled mmc does not fall into the exception > for prisoners rule and No Quarter doesn't specifically mention it either. If the unit could rout were they not encircled, they could rout. If they could not rout if they were not encircled, they would be eliminated. A20.4 says "(Once No Quarter is in effect) all other enemy units will subsequently always use Low Crawl or risk Interdiction to avoid surrendering - even if Disrupted." There is no exception for encircled units. > > > Was yours a gut feel -- or can you give some evidence? -- BTW we went with the > gut feel, but then it was moot as the 2 additional DCs removed the ADJACENT. > > Oh -- that leads me to another question. Squad moves into encircled position as described > above -- is the placement cost 8MF (double the 4 -- technically though he hasn't left the hex)? > Does he get a +1 on his DC attack for the encirclement? Do these questions ever end? The doubled MF cost would apply since that is what a unit would pay if moving there. I don't know about the +1 DRM. Fred > > mike > ----- From: Doug Gibson Subject: RE: "War" Stories Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 9:25:47 PDT Carl Fago writes: > Geez, ya would think you guys would have played the Italians by now. An > Italian hero is about as unlikely as a Japanese guy _not_ going berserk! Speaking of Japanese, I thought I'd relate an amusing tale from my current game of KP 167. I've got the Americans, and I'm getting walloped. In the course of a single fire phase, I manage WITH A SINGLE M3 GMC to inflict the following results on an elite 348 reduced squad: reduce to 238 (nothing abnormal here) Give it another MC, rolling snakes for it: HoB! Roll snakes AGAIN on the HoB... now it's Fanatic and generated a Hero (!!!!) Blow away the hero with ANOTHER shot, but roll snakes AGAIN! for the HS's MC... with HoB making it Berserk! On the next turn, one of my own berserk HS charged, happened to see HIS berserk HS, and ran on in... only to see my sniper wake up and nuke the HS while the Japs were doing their thing in the DFPh. QUESTION: Although my berserk HS was able to see an enemy unit at the end of its charge (so it doesn't lose berserk status), it no longer can see any Known enemy unit (that one was the only one in sight at end of charge). This case doesn't seem to be handled in the rules... what happens if nobody is revealed in sight by my next MPh? I suppose you could say that it is required to charge the last hex in which it saw enemy units, but it's already there! -- -Doug Gibson dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu ----- From: Shawn Kenny Subject: Sorry but.... Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 14:37:46 ADT Hey I may be wasting some bandwidth but I just had to say that I just recently saw "Stalingrad" the movie and then just finished readin "Enemy at the Gates" the book..... I thoroughly enjoyed both! Shawn ----- From: Jean-Luc.Bechennec@lri.fr Subject: war story Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 19:43:45 +0200 (MET DST) The most amazing sequence of events I ever so was during a game of "Aachen Pall". During DFPh, my opponent (German) opened fire with his HMG on a poor 666 and retained rof. my 666 broke, exceeding ELR. German's HMG fired again and retained rof again and I rolled snake eyes, HOB, battle hardening and here is a ready to serve 666. This happened 3 times in a row. At last, my 666 broke definitly. We were unable to stop to laugh during all these amazing DR. ASL is a great game. -- ========================================================================== Jean-Luc Bechennec / / Equipe Architecture des Ordinateurs et ( ( Conception des Circuits Integres \ \ LRI, bat 490 \ \ Tel 33 (1) 69-41-70-91 Universite Paris-Sud ) ) Fax 33 (1) 69-41-65-86 F-91405 ORSAY Cedex / / email jlb@lri.lri.fr ========================================================================== ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 10:49:09 PDT From: Frederick.Timm@Eng.Sun.COM (Fred Timm) Subject: RE: "War" Stories [...] > QUESTION: > > Although my berserk HS was able to see an enemy unit at the end of its charge > (so it doesn't lose berserk status), it no longer can see any Known enemy unit > (that one was the only one in sight at end of charge). This case doesn't seem > to be handled in the rules... what happens if nobody is revealed in sight by > my next MPh? I suppose you could say that it is required to charge the last > hex in which it saw enemy units, but it's already there! I would say that it remains berserk in it hex until its next MPh. If during that time it never sees an enemy unit it remains in the hex where it saw the last enemy unit and will lose berserk status. Fred > > -- > > -Doug Gibson > dag@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu > ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 16:11:13 EDT From: Paul Stoecker Subject: War Stories Two weeks ago I was playing a D-Day scenario (name escapes me) where the British try to capture 7 fortified locations from the germans. It is a deluxe scenario. Anyhow, On one flank I am preceeding well the german machine gun nest has been quieted by malfunction. We come to the rally and I open my big mouth and remind my opponent to repair it. In the ensuing PFPh, I learn to regret it as I lose the scenario due to the HMG from Hell. Out of nowhere this nest lights up and in an amazing display of snake eyes, extremely low rolls, and plenty of ROF maintenance. I am suddenly crushed beyond believe. I lose about 5 squads, create a hero (who is almost instantly wounded), lose a leader, and an lmg. I guess there is something to be said about my opponent snatching victory out of the jaws of defeat and my new found respect for an HMG nest. Worst of all all of my squads were in good cover. Paul stoecker@gandalf.rutgers.edu ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:27:05 -0700 (MST) From: N431532374@amuc.mtroyal.ab.ca (Grant Linneberg) Subject: The noble Grape > >And, Paul, you're right; it must have been the vino. The French got the >whole idea for wine from the Romans (I think.) Who got the idea from the Greeks, as usual. But more surprising is that some of the earliest wine-makers were Georgians (the country, not the state). We never really think of Georgians (or Russians for that matter) as wine drinkers, but it's a huge part of Georgian culture. Every meal, and images of grapes and vines run through their art and architecture. Grant "Wino" Linneberg ... "Too much of good thing is WONDERFUL!" - Mae West -== IceIQle v2.0 ==- ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 15:04:07 EDT From: ripton@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Dave Ripton) Subject: Re: war story Jean-Luc said: >The most amazing sequence of events I ever so was during a >game of "Aachen Pall". During DFPh, my opponent (German) opened fire >with his HMG on a poor 666 and retained rof. my 666 broke, exceeding >ELR. German's HMG fired again and retained rof again and I rolled >snake eyes, HOB, battle hardening and here is a ready to serve >666. This happened 3 times in a row. At last, my 666 broke >definitly. We were unable to stop to laugh during all these amazing >DR. "They" say that if you give them long enough, a room full of monkeys with typewriters can produce . (If it's a haiku or a sonnet, then "long enough" may even come around before the sun goes nova. For an Ezra Pound poem, maybe by Tuesday.) With that in mind, I can't help thinking that Jean-Luc was playing Aachen's Pall best-of-35 for ladder points when this happened. :-> (Now that we have Strayer Strays, Aachen's Pall is starting to look more like an actual scenario, so I guess I'll have to stop harassing Jean-Luc for playing it.) Dave "anybody for a one-mailing email game?" Ripton ----- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 12:46:26 MST From: hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) Subject: Re: Blind hexes > Method 2: > > Blind hexes = (2*Ho) -Hv-Ht+INT(Ro/5) +y > > where all abreviations are the same > and y=0 if obstacle is Crest > or y=1 if obstacle is not Crest (including cliff drops greater than > one level unless firer is at the cliff) > How about for half (or 3/4 level obstacles). Say I'm on a slope at 5 3/4 shooting over a building at 4 1/2 at a target at level 3, ignore range. That'd be 9 - 5 3/4 - 3 (+1) = 1 1/4 blind hexes. So, is that 1 or 2 blind hexes? Don Hancock ----- Subject: Re: Blind hexes From: jonathan.vanmechelen@dscmail.com (Jonathan Vanmechelen) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:47:00 -0640 Howdy, hancock@ono.geg.mot.com (Don Hancock x2712) writes: [Formulas for calculating blind hexes.] >How about for half (or 3/4 level obstacles). Half level obstacles do not affect LOS between units at different, whole levels nor form blind hexes [A6.21]. 3/4 Level obstacles (those of you who don't have KGP are missing something here) also do not create blind hexes. While these intermediate levels don't affect the number of blind hexes for obstacles, they do affect whether viewers located on them are "plateau-ed". Units on the same level as a crest hex can't see to levels below that crest if they are not adjacent to the crest line. Units on either a 1/2 or 3/4 Level object can see over an obstacle at the whole level below them, i.e. a unit at level 1.75 can see to level 0 over a Level 1 crest line, even when the crest line is not in the viewer's hex. In this case the viewer is treated as if he were at Level 2, e.g. such a crest line forms zero blind hexes at range 0-5, one at ranges 6-10, etc. If the lower unit is a partial level above the base Level of its hex, it does not seem to affect LOS at all. Note that this is explained quite thoroughly for slopes (3/4 Level obstacles) but is not mentioned for 1/2 Level Obstacles. However, the logic used for slopes (in P2.3) seems to apply equally well for 1/2 level obstacles. Fortunately hillocks and real hills don't happen together often (if at all). So long, JR --- þ 1st 1.11 #2895 þ Foo ----- From: Patrik Manlig Subject: Re: war story Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 15:04:21 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, > Awesome. It's usually those 8 ML Germans that fire into melees with > the Yanks, so I'm glad it evens out sometimes. But the hero (like > any HS or SMC) should have lost his inherent 1FP in the fire phases > of the player turn when he used a DC. But what would happen if he _placed_ the DC during the MPh? I don't consider that firing, but I suspect some people do. -- m91pma@student.tdb.uu.se /Patrik Manlig "Show me the Devil, and I'll show him HELL!"