From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #100 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/100 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 100 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities [B7L] Re: Action Figures [B7L] Avon looking for Blake [B7L] Expense account [B7L] Action figures [B7L] Action Figures Re: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction [B7L] Behind-the-scenes [B7L] UnAmerican activities Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Re: [B7L] Expense account Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes Re: [B7L] Re:Avon's search? Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] Vila's taste in women Re: [B7L] Action figures ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:00:01 +0300 (EET DST) From: Kai V Karmanheimo To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Una wrote: Actually, that "eventually" in my post was suppose to indicate this (of course it didn't). Things are made good in the afterlife even if you have to suffer in this one, and the sinner will eventually get his comeuppance. The Judeo-Christian thinking sees time as linear, with Creation as the beginning and the Last Judgement looming at the end of the story. The central convention is that the story should have a clear conclusion and by that conclusion things should be made right. Neil wrote: Note that my main focus in this issue was narratological (as was with the article that inspired it), not primarily cultural and certainly not theological (a subject I know bugger all). However, I do feel that we learn and organise our perceptions and expectations of the world through stories and I don't mean just fan fiction (ultimately our lives are stories that we construct to make sense of experiences and build our subjectivity). Our laws, our language and our sense of sacred are imbedded with this tradition (even if we don't always recognise the origin of the ideas) and it remains even now when we've largely removed the preternatural baggage from the equation. But having removed God, we've also removed the undividable, transcendental signifier, the fulcrum on which this construct rested. We cling to its ideals and conventions but lacking the fixed, redeeming constant, it falls apart bit by bit, while no successful replacement has been found to fix things (Reason got a bad rap during the 20th Century, Love is a perennial contender but so far has failed to deliver, while Greed is ever popular but lacks a sustainable agenda). So yes, instead of one big story we're increasingly heading towards division, chasing fragments of image because the whole picture is too complex to process. Quite right. But as things *are* complex, we'll have to narrow our focus to one thing at a time. It's an interesting idea to develop (if I only had time to do so), but I'm not suggesting it's more than that. Hmm, has this been my very long way of saying, "I agree"? Una again: Now getting back to expectations of happy endings for a moment, I think that we often see these kinds of endings where the narrative ends at the victory of the baddies (with no supernatural balancing of the scales implied), but still there is the triumph of the good through their martyrdom. As westerns have often been mentioned as an influence on Blake's 7 (see, I finally got there) and considering the final episode's bounty hunter theme, I came to think about the classic Italian western "Il grande silenzio" (The Great Silence). This very unorthodox western ends with the hero and his black girlfriend getting shot by a group of evil bounty hunters who then proceed to slaughter their helpless hostages and finally ride off to collect the bounty from their killing. Now this is certainly a downbeat ending, but just before the end titles we get a text explaining how this massacre caused such uproar that the whole bounty hunter system was finally abolished. So the idea is that things got better outside the story, and people didn't die in vain. Victory in defeat. Blake's 7 of course doesn't do it like this. There is no final caption telling us how the people, inspired by the crew's sacrifice, rose against the Federation and wearing red leather trousers one size too small and Blake T-shirts of rather bad quality, took back the power from their oppressors (and later declared St.Vila's Day, a national holiday with mandatory intoxication), one reason being simply that there could have been a fifth season. But as Una pointed out, the ending is typically ambivalent, the ball ending in the audience side of the court. We make our own meanings. So no heaven and no hell, but maybe, just maybe, they made a difference in this life. Believe what you like. Kai ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 17:02:48 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Message-ID: <009c01bf9f42$6ed56540$f9694e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Wolfram & Hart letterhead] Dear Pat: In general, nice job on the Film Noir Avon set. Snap-brim fedora, trench coat, powder-blue suit (as per The Big Sleep), automatic and extra clips, supplemental smart ass remark cassette, gardenias for Film Noir Anna, all excellent. Suggest adding bottle of aspirin (whacks on head also common in this genre). Also, remove the blackjack: Avon demonstrably will not Play the Sap despite urging of Dame and Best Pal. Also thumbs-up on Servalan's Malibu Dream Dungeon. How are you getting along on Jenna's truck for things to fall off of? As for the Avon Classics Educational Line: 1. Yorkshire Moor package for the Wuthering Heights set is a tad featureless. But when has that stopped us? Box should read "Series 3-4: How can I die without my soul? How can I live without my life?" Standards & Practices says we can't include a ready-to-hang puppy. Pursue possible tie-in with Taco Bell chihuahua. Isabella Linton costume for Cally doll is excellent, and I'm sure the Vila doll will enjoy Edgar Linton get-up and being rich for a change. 2. I'm sure you'll get criticism about the casting in the Pride & Prejudice set (based on who's cleverer, who has more horribly embarrassing family, who's more likely to own big house, etc.) but I think Avonian ability to turn confession of love into unforgiveable insult is conclusive. I know where you could unload a fair few dozen copies of Avon doll in Darcy costume. Not sure about the suitability of Empire line for Blake doll. Discussions about who looks better in damp muslin will have to be taken off-line, but personally don't think it works with chest hair. 3. Why not Servalan/Travis Jane Eyre set? Eye & hand already missing, no need to retool. Dana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 13:35:46 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon looking for Blake Message-ID: <38EBA3A1.31FF@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally said: > At the start of Blake Avon says that he's known where Blake was for some > time, since before the warlord conference, but he's being distinctly > disengenuous throughout this scene (something he's rather good at). The > amount of time that (IMO) he and Orac have put into this is extremely hard > to equate with Avon's statement that he *would* have left Blake there had > the conference succeeded, not least of all because you simply *don't* go to > all that work for no reason, (and the search, by my reasoning, probably > lasted through several episodes, starting well before the conference idea > came into being). How about this-- he did know Blake's probable whereabouts before Warlord, but wasn't sure about getting Blake back *when* they needed help. If he did that, and Blake figured out a solution to the Pylene-50 expansion problem, Avon would be second place to Blake the rest of their days. Avon wanted to bring Blake back in *after* the problem was in hand. And probably was hoping to run off and do it on his own while the others were involved in other work. Only when the alternatives blew up in his face was he willing to risk having the others see him go running to Blake. > But after Terminal, he's unwilling to > risk another might-be, and the information Orac has on this man worries him > more than he later lets on (more disengenuousness) - makes him more > uncertain that he has the right man (or if he has, what the hell has > happened to Blake???). So he keeps his mouth shut and waits for more > information from Orac. That, too. Besides letting the others see his weakness for Blake, if it is another trap, he wants to face it alone. He had intended to risk only himself on Terminal. He would also want to risk only himself on Guada Prime. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:28:50 -0700 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Expense account Message-ID: <38EB85E2.CC96985E@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew 2 wrote: >( i am a different andrew from the other Andrew ( with a capital A ) on the list. ) Gee, I never would have guessed, as Andrew I writes such beautifully perfect prose, with Capitals, punctuation and paragraphs. >are there other signs that life is cheap in the federation ? Servalan's body count alone. >are there other signs of huge expense in one area but amazing frugality in other areas ? The Invasion of Star One - The Federation built a vast minefiled that must have cost gigabillions, in order to repel an invasion of eggbeaters. PatPat http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707 _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:47:52 -0700 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Action figures Message-ID: <38EB8A58.2DCB87F0@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: >From: Trish, Engineer, who holds Marketing in contempt (do you really need a >degree to make up products that violate the laws of physics, are impossible >to produce, and were promised yesterday?) Yes. In fact, "The Doctor" assures us that he can do exactly that. And if he fails: no one is indispensable. >Text: Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off so hard that I may have to >call in sick to work tomorrow. Don't bother. You're fired. SCE just merged with Mattel and Mortal Kombat. We already have B7/MK cross promos in the works. PatPat, CEO Supreme Commander Und Mortal Mattel (SCUMM) Inc. PP:ka -- http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707 _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:14:19 -0700 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Action Figures Message-ID: <38EB908B.A0D8D205@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana wrote: >PatPat, splendid suggestions! Can I be your legal department? money grubbing lawyers. Where were you before the big merger? ... >headline from the New York Times: "Democrats Criticize Gore for Position on Cuban Boy." Everyone's a critic. erm: for the record "No comment." >"My Mom and Dad invaded Cally's brain and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt" ha ha I love it! Legal will be sending you a contract for SCUMM production rights. ------ >From: Dana Shilling, Of Counsel, Wolfram & Hart >Subject: Marketing >Have reviewed your memo. Sorry if this duplicates material already in your >file, but if I'm going to be two digests behind, well, there's nothing I can >do about it. Enclosing this P.S. as I am 5 posts behind: Taking over ze vorld via young impressionable minds makes me one busy CEO (Cruel Evil Overlord) >1. Avon doll likely to be the most popular--good, in light of its propensity >to destroy all nearby props/accessories. Not to mention companions. >Enhanced potential for resales. >... etc. Am favorably impressed by your memo. Expect contract in morning post offering you position at SCUMM of CFO (Chosen Foul One). Suggest you change name from Shilling to Pounds. Think BIG! Regards, PatPat CEO, SCUMM, Inc. PP:ag (ka resigned in a snit upon typing this memo. Had been promised CFO slot until your timely caution about leaving KA doll too close to the computer.) -- http://www.geocities.com/area51/1707 _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:03:49 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction Message-ID: In message <20000405105824.77916.qmail@hotmail.com>, Sally Manton writes >So my taste runs to... What she said. And for "Avon looking for Blake". This is one of the reasons the software hasn't been getting much of a workout - I know that if I leave it a day, either Betty or Sally will probably post something to which I can append "me too!" :-) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:00:04 EDT From: RCalla6725@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm brand new to this Blake's 7 list, having been drawn in by the repeats. I was wondering if anyone could give me the URL to sites that have behind the scenes information? I've looked through most of the sites, and very much enjoyed them, but was wondering if there was a site out there concerned with the background of the series? In particular I'm curious to know why some of the actors, such as Gareth Thomas, left the show, and why Terry Nation didn't return as writer for the fourth season. Best regards, Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:01:15 EDT From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] UnAmerican activities Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lovely stuff from Neil and Una. Kudos to Neil for resisting the temptation of pointing all of today's evils on Capitalism, or any other economic system. It is far more complex than that. The point that I wanted to make about mental disorders, especially depression, is really about the impact of expectation in our lives, and how often the messages that are culturally sanctioned and of course contributed by the media combine to produce unrealistic expectations. There is a sense of competition, and a feeling a failure associated with not having or not *being* what you expect, but this is not a byproduct of capitalism, strictly speaking. These existential crises -- oh God, I'm 36 and is *this* all I'm doing with my life? -- arise from reasons more complex than simply economic factors. Capitalism offers everyone the same opportunity to succeed but offers no illusion that everyone is equal. It is fundamental to capitalism that not everyone can win. A true understanding of that philosophy is to see it as more Darwinian and in line with my earlier comments about Nature's essential savagery. IMHO, the malaise affecting much of industrialized/information age society is a byproduct of the bastardization between capitalism and socialism which fosters a sense of entitlement to all of the riches associated with capitalism's winners. For example: I am equal to everybody else, therefore I should have what they have, regardless of associated labor, for we no longer believe that he who reaps sows. If I don't have, or am not living, what my neighbor has, I may either become depressed and feel a failure, or will want to take what they have. Obviously, that's an oversimplification of a complex issue, but the blend of two highly divergent philosophies, which is pretty much in place in most of our governments, come together at a common point, the human nature of greed. Combining greed with the philosophy of equality and with the philosophy of wealth is the hideous society most of us live in. (Oh, the US pretends to be capitalistic, but please, any country with social security, income tax, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, unemployment, etc., is not a true capitalistic society. It is a blend.) Probably many watch B7 and see Avon as an archetype of capitalism: an out-for-himself, completely selfish bastard. Actually he is more truly representative of this socialistic capitalism in that he doesn't believe creating wealth, he just wants wealth, and will take it to satisfy his hunger for it. Certainly Avon has the brains and ability to create wealth - he could make a fortune with Avon Computer Consulting, Inc. for example -- but prefers to steal it from the Federation Bank. AVON: Listen to me. Wealth is the only reality. And the only way to obtain wealth is to take it away from somebody else. (Space Fall, as if you didn't know) Ahh, not the old fashioned way of EARNING it. So much for Avon the capitalist. Certainly a society where human greed is a central factor has a snowball's chance in you know where of maintaining any real relationship with God. I agree with you, Neil, that complex scientific "certainties" have replaced the simpler religious beliefs. The scientific breakthroughs have fostered an environment of questioning everything and expecting answers that make sense. How can faith stand up to a scientific model? I also agree with Una's comments about the promise of reward in the next life. The movement toward a society that doesn't create wealth but takes it from somebody else, combined with the increasing secularization that has eliminated future reward is a bleak picture of today's world and what we can look forward to in the future. One of the more interesting aspects of B7 is the acceptance of this bleak vision: the weak will be drugged and used (for production or cannon fodder) while the strong will abuse. However, the actions of Blake and others who really believe in the resistance echo the Augustinian belief that the sacrifices they make now will result in a better future life. As heaven is not mentioned, nor is religion, the better future life is likely one for future generations, not for themselves. This factor was addressed in a previous post (and horribly I've forgotten who wrote it but the point was excellent). One of the earliest definitions of American spirit was embodied by the pioneers who made things easier for those who followed, etc. I don't believe that it was for any intent of making it easier for those who were weaker, simply an acknowledgment that it was hard for any of them to survive, and the task of making just one thing easier might make the difference between life and death. This is by no means simply an American tradition. Certainly the traditions came with the immigrants, in much the same way homes would provide shelter for travelers passing through. All gone and forgotten. Why? Have we become so insulated and selfish that we no longer believe in creating a better future for our children? Has the xenophobia of some countries extended to individual homes? (don't get me started on the loss of front porches and the construction of walled back yards, never mind the split of families so that parents and children live hundreds and thousands miles apart). Yes, to a degree, in that xenophobia is largely fear, and we live in a fear-driven society. There's no hope for a better life in the hereafter, so we jealously guard what we now have. After all, it is all that we have. "B7 could therefore be seen as a reflection of the crisis of confidence afflicting a culture that has been stripped of its essential certainties." Excellent stuff Neil. In a culture that in many cases defines itself as Judeo-Christian (the US still does, but mostly the Protestant tradition, not the RC), how does society deal with the loss of mainstays to social behavior? If individuals do not believe in a reward in the hereafter, what *does* guide their actions? What is the moral compass for this society or is there one at all? That's why I love the Avon/Blake conflicts. BTW Neil, what is the economic culture of penguins? Trish ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:34:37 EDT From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana, Dana, Dana A powder-blue suit? I'm having flashbacks to my senior prom (no it wasn't my date in powder blue, it was my best friend's date in a powder blue tux) Can't we make it silver? Avon looks lovely in silver. In general, nice job on the Film Noir Avon set. Snap-brim fedora, trench coat, powder-blue suit (as per The Big Sleep), automatic and extra clips, supplemental smart ass remark cassette, gardenias for Film Noir Anna, all excellent. Suggest adding bottle of aspirin (whacks on head also common in this genre). Also, remove the blackjack: Avon demonstrably will not Play the Sap despite urging of Dame and Best Pal. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:55:31 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Message-ID: <20000405.225533.-89537.1.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:29:39 +0100 "Ariana" writes: > > Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know > who > Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily > blown into > oblivion. > The answer just hit me! Jenna (free trader and the person expected to have raw nerves about pirates) took Blake aside and told him that if he gave into his bleeding heart tendencies to let these people go, he wasn't supposed to be surprised when the teleport malfunctioned and his atoms on the galactic express, understood? Then she pretended to be surprised, so Avon wouldn't think _she_ was turning into a big bleeding heart (thinking she blew up pirates out of feelings of justice or something) and start getting on her case about it. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:48:39 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Expense account Message-ID: <20000405.225533.-89537.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:28:50 -0700 Pat Patera writes: > The Invasion of Star One - The Federation built a vast minefiled > that > must have cost gigabillions, in order to repel an invasion of > eggbeaters. Those weren't mines. They were just very, very large eggs. For further information, please write to: Federation - Andromedan Pillsbury Bake Off C/O Wolfram and Hart Oh, and completely unrelated issue, but I'm hopin I'm not the only one whose noticed the names of the favorite, corrupt lawyer team on Angel? Wolf (not a well represented animal in western literature even if you disregard eating of carrion and, hence, it's association with Ares, the war god. Then there are werewolves, etc), Ram (probably meant for goat, an animal also associated with evil), and Hart (as in stag, probably connecting to certain pagan gods, often associated with death, not to mention one of its more popular remnants, the Wild Hunt). Was this the legal firm that helped frame Blake and then shot his lawyer? And, if wolves are going to come into it, does this mean we need a story about Jenna walking through a quarry pit (disguised as a wood), wearing a red cloak of questionable fashion value? Oh, but wait, Little Red Riding Hood gets sidetracked into a strategically unimportant plotline, though heavy with - ahem! - possible meanings, only to reach the designated meeting place and discover the person she was looking for isn't really there. It's all a trap. Blake - I mean Grandma - was just the Federation - uh, wolf - in disguise. She's doomed. She's shot - uh, eaten. Grandma - I mean Blake - is pretty dead, too. So, it can't be Jenna. It has to be - No, no, no! Little Red Riding Hood is turning into a PGP / Avon metaphore! This is too ridiculous! Although, please note, LRRH (who was in a lot worse shape, what with being eaten instead of just shot) _survived_. So, we just need a useful huntsman to arrive and get rid of Servalan .... Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:25:52 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: b7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Message-ID: In message <009c01bf9f42$6ed56540$f9694e0c@dshilling>, Dana Shilling writes > Standards & >Practices says we can't include a ready-to-hang puppy. Pursue possible >tie-in with Taco Bell chihuahua. Yes! >3. Why not Servalan/Travis Jane Eyre set? Eye & hand already missing, no >need to retool. ROFL -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 03:05:05 EDT From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Action Figures Message-ID: <16.250a531.261d9121@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >3. Why not Servalan/Travis Jane Eyre set? Eye & hand already missing, no >need to retool. Just had image of poor, plain Servalan at that dreadful school. Isn't it amazing how she transformed herself into a glamorous woman? Who to play the Mrs.? Oh yes, the woman of 1000 faces and names ..... Anna Grant/Sula Chesku/Bartholomew/Mrs. Rochester Trish (What did he see in her anyway?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:50:32 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <000c01bf9f98$90de5b00$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una wrote: > >People, by and large, prefer simplicity to > > complexity - it makes life easier and lifts the burden of decision-making > > Isn't that also the attraction of socialism? Like any doctrine, it can be simplified to save people the irksome burden of having to switch their brains on. > > I'll take it the wedding's off Sometimes, my dear, one must be cruel to be kind. That's cruel to you and kind to me, of course:) > Kai wrote: > > > Our whole western tradition of story-telling is permeated by the influence > of Judeo-Christian tradition which imposes certain expectations: Good will > triumph over Evil, justice will be done (eventually), the guilty are > punished, the righteous rewarded. > > I have to say I'm not entirely convinced, altho' there's a lot in that. > There's a very strong strand in Christian thought (inherited, I think, from > Augustine, but any experts out there please correct me), which explains away > and makes acceptable injustice in this world on the grounds that rewards > (and punishments) will be dealt out in the next. This tradition recognizes > that the guilty *aren't* punished and the righteous *aren't* rewarded - but > to enable us to cope with this reality creates the notion that *after* this > life, we'll get our rewards in heaven. Then wouldn't a secularisation of this tradition tend bring the doling out of just desserts down to this mortal sphere, rather than leaving it all to the afterlife? > So, to me, B7 seems to be a rather typically pessimistic secularized > narrative. Except within the framework of modern popular entertainment, it isn't all that typical. In more highbrow circles, though, it's not particularly remarkable. Hmmm. B7 as E E 'Doc' Smith meets Orwell via Sam Peckinpah... Neil "I am not a man, I am a free number." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:11:46 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <00da01bf9f9f$e60a62c0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Claudia: > "Ann Basart" wrote: > : Yes! I agree. In fact, I've come to think that Londo was really the central > : character of B5. > > I am firmly of this opinion. :) I said last night as friends and I > watched The Long Night and Into the Fire that I felt Londo's personal > arc was really what the show was all about (if one *had* to pull one > narrative thread from the whole). I am so glad for Peter Jurasik's > sake and for ours that he got the chance to play it. He gave me > chills of delight right from day one with "nice shark... pretty shark" > in the pilot movie. > > Andreas Katsulas is best at delivering the more inspirational prose JMS > writes (but then, I really could listen to him read the phone book)... > but Jurasik and Londo are incredible. > > Without him, it's excellent space opera. With him, I think it's > literature. If B5 is a novel, he's the main character. But Londo is nothing without G'Kar operating as a comparison. The different paths that patriotism takes. The eternal cycle of enmity. That scene in which G'Kar buys Londo a drink and talks about the possibility of peace and friendship, not knowing that Londo has already screwed Narn, and Londo *regrets what he's done before it's even started* is a B5 pivot. If I was going to pick a single character, it would be Sinclair. If only for aesthetic reasons. > : John Kenneth Muir, in his "History and Critical Analysis of Blake's 7," > : suggests that (for complex reasons that I won't go into here) Avon is really > : the central character of B7. > No, if you have to pick a central character, I don't really see how > it can be anyone but Avon. And yet, I feel that it does the series > a disservice to look at it in those terms. It wasn't conceived as > a narrative whole, and Gareth Thomas's departure keeps the later > seasons from behaving as one might originally have expected. It is > often the case that the ensemble stars, rather than any one actor. > So I'd rather not answer the question at all. ;-) Again, Avon and Blake are mutually dependent. It doesn't matter that Blake isn't there, in fact, it's only his absence that makes the end so damn good! Una ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:30:26 +0100 From: Alison Page To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" Subject: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C4F0@BRAMLEY> Content-Type: text/plain I'm reading my mail piecemeal so I hope I'm not going astray here, but I'd like to pick up an interesting thread - 'Is Avon a capitalist?' Does the definition of a word matter? If enough people use the word the 'wrong' way does that mean it becomes the 'right' way? Am I pedantic git? Regardless, it seems to me that people are using the word 'capitalism' wrongly. Perhaps this is a cultural difference. What 'Capitalism' means is that people who own 'capital' (ie the means of producing goods) do not have to work, but get income by taking a proportion of the value generated by the each person using that capital (ie the mine owner takes part of the value generated by the miner). Now here are some quotes from Trish (not picking on you Trish, your post was very eloquent so it is good to quote from). >>Capitalism offers everyone the same opportunity to succeed but offers no illusion that everyone is equal. Capitalism by definition does not offer everyone the same opportunity. It directs social benefits according to inherited or acquired ownership. That's what it means. I'm not making a moral point, just a linguistic one. >>any country with social security, income tax, Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, unemployment, etc., is not a true capitalistic society Not at all. As long as you can get rich by owning capital, then it is a capitalist society >>(quoting Avon )'Wealth is the only reality. And the only way to obtain wealth is to take it away from somebody else'....not the old fashioned way of EARNING it. So much for Avon the capitalist. But, as I say, what Avon is describing is exactly capitalism. Earnings are a subsidiary form of income in capitalism, income from capital (ie money taken by people who do not work from those who do) is the main source of wealth in a capitalist economy. That's why it's called 'capitalism'. FWIW I think Avon changes his mind several times about what are the real values that underly a good life, so he was alternately all kinds of 'isms' I would imagine. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:47:00 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <00b101bf9f9e$379cdf20$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil: > Una wrote: > > I'll take it the wedding's off > > Sometimes, my dear, one must be cruel to be kind. That's cruel to you and > kind to me, of course:) But Neil, think of the genetic mix. With your brains, *my* brains, and the looks of an entirely separate person, we could create a GOD! Neil: > > So, to me, B7 seems to be a rather typically pessimistic secularized > > narrative. > > Except within the framework of modern popular entertainment, it isn't all > that typical. In more highbrow circles, though, it's not particularly > remarkable. I'm sure we could start trading anecdotal evidence at this point. Una ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:45:05 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu 06 Apr, Ellynne G. wrote: > > > On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:29:39 +0100 "Ariana" writes: > > > > Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know who > > Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily blown into > > oblivion. > > > The answer just hit me! Jenna (free trader and the person expected to > have raw nerves about pirates) took Blake aside and told him that if he > gave into his bleeding heart tendencies to let these people go, he wasn't > supposed to be surprised when the teleport malfunctioned and his atoms on > the galactic express, understood? Well, they did appear to be people who had no qualms about letting an entire planet starve to death. That makes them ruthless and potentially extremely dangerous in anyone's book. I always wonder if Blake was trying to avoid getting into a fight that he might lose. Remember that Liberator's weapons had yet to be tried in an acutal battle. His crew (apart possibly from Jenna) were inexperienced in space combat. Once these people realised he had the neutrotope, there was no way they were just going to let Liberator go lightly. The energy banks were virtually exhausted after two passages through the asteroid field. Liberator was in no condition to fight or run away. Is it so surprising that Blake chose to mine the entry lock? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:37:19 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 05 Apr, RCalla6725@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > > I'm brand new to this Blake's 7 list, having been drawn in by the repeats. I > was wondering if anyone could give me the URL to sites that have behind the > scenes information? > > I've looked through most of the sites, and very much enjoyed them, but was > wondering if there was a site out there concerned with the background of the > series? What you really want is a copy of 'Blakes 7: the inside story'. There's loads of background stuff, and photos, in that as one of the authors worked on the series as a make-up artist and she and her husband interviewed loads of people involved in the series - actors, directors, special effects, etc. (You can find more details in the 'merchandise' section of http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 ) > > In particular I'm curious to know why some of the actors, such as Gareth > Thomas, left the show, and why Terry Nation didn't return as writer for the > fourth season. Gareth went to play Orsino in Twelth Night with the Royal Shakespeare Company. He was worried about being typecast. He also loves Shakespeare. (If you're interested, there's some pictures from that production in the Gareth Thomas part of http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 ) David Jackson (Gan) was written out as the writers felt a death was needed to make the series believable. Sally Knyvette wanted to leave as she didn't feel Jenna had much to do. Jan Chappell left because she felt Cally was getting very limited and also because she wanted to spend more time with her young son. She was also worried about typecasting. (some of the cast worries about typecasting were justified. If you're in a well-known long-running series, there tends to be an assumption that you're not available for work.) Terry Nation went to the USA and had very little to do with B7 after that. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 01:08:26 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Avon's search? Message-ID: <38EC45F9.74A4E9A5@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avona wrote: > Which indicates, for whatever reason, they HAVE been collecting rumors > of Blake's whereabouts. But I suppose that could be Cally's idea. > Why didn't they look for Jenna? Mmm. Jenna made a few anti-alien > comments in front of Cally. And then she and Avon often snarled at each > other. Why didn't Vila suggest they keep an eye out for her, though? . Presumably Jenna (1) wasn't famous enough to generate rumors, and (2) was most likely to be found in proximity to Blake, since she left with him. And in regard to the discussion that comes up on occasion about why Blake and Jenna didn't contact Liberator--perhaps it's not that they both had broken bracelets, but just that they were out of Zen's range. This is particularly easy to justify if Liberator was too damaged when they left to recall its position accurately. Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:44:13 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <00b001bf9f9e$371c8b90$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kai: > Una wrote: > > Augustine, but any experts out there please correct me), which explains away > and makes acceptable injustice in this world on the grounds that rewards > (and punishments) will be dealt out in the next.> > > Actually, that "eventually" in my post was suppose to indicate this (of > course it didn't). Ah, skim reading. Bad habit, but a necessary one for survival. Please forgive me. > Things are made good in the afterlife even if you have > to suffer in this one, and the sinner will eventually get his > comeuppance. The Judeo-Christian thinking sees time as linear, with > Creation as the beginning and the Last Judgement looming at the end of the > story. The central convention is that the story should have a clear > conclusion and by that conclusion things should be made right. > But having removed God, we've > also removed the undividable, transcendental signifier, the fulcrum on > which this construct rested. We cling to its ideals and conventions but > lacking the fixed, redeeming constant, it falls apart bit by bit, while no > successful replacement has been found to fix things (Reason got a bad rap > during the 20th Century, Love is a perennial contender but so far has > failed to deliver, while Greed is ever popular but lacks a sustainable > agenda). There's always Justice. Incidentally, whatever rap Reason, God and Justice and the rest have got in intellectual circles over the past century, I reckon an awful lot of ordinary people still subscribe to them as ways of sense-making. Una ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:46:51 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's taste in women Message-ID: <20000406094651.78876.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >To Vila's credit, he was not much afraid of Kerril, even in her 'bad >grrrl black' get up. Yet he was clearly afraid of Bayban (expressed by >his best babble fest ever). Is this lack of reaction a sexist thing? I always assumed it was more to do with the fact that Bayban: a) was clearly a raving psycho. b) had a reputation for being a violent raving psycho. whereas Kerrill, whilst being tough and serious was at least sane and reasonably reasonable. Either that or Vila is as supremely confident of his ability with the 'ladies' as he is of his ability with locks. ;) Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 02:12:04 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Action figures Message-ID: <38EC54E3.7076C1A@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PatPat, CEO of SCUMM, Inc. wrote: > Mistral wrote: > > >From: Trish, Engineer, who holds Marketing in contempt Huh? Who, me? No, ma'am, that was Trish. I've been down here in my cubicle in Design for days, working on those new products you wanted: The Deeta Conversion Pak (for Tarrant doll): Stick-on sideburns Quick-draw Arm Accelerator (guaranteed to work against all dolls except androids & Soolin) The Mutoid Conversion Pak (for Soolin doll): Regulation uniform Regulation blaster Regulation mind-sucking, personality-sucking symbiotic hat The Shivan Conversion Pak (for Travis II doll): Black robe 10 metres of gauze bandage Looped tape of inarticulate groans and grunts The Sleer Conversion Pak (for Servalan doll): Black feather-edged cape Tear duct attachment (cries when exposed to Sand) Completely transparent disguise that only Scorpio crewmembers can see through without being killed by the end of the episode The Hal Mellanby doll: Completely submersible Comes with indoor firing range Marches to the tune of "Different Drum" The Zil doll: Lectures on philosophy Stays in constant motion Requires super-heavy-duty battery; when battery runs out, doll expires The Ushton doll: Comes with knife, bundle of sticks, headband Limps in proximity to Blake doll The Tynus doll: Comes with sketch pad and miniature caged insect Vinyl overcoat Programmed to stab Avon doll in the back The Dorian doll: Automatically deteriorates After first purchase, can only be replaced by trade in of another doll. Each subsequent trade in requires one more doll to be traded in than the last. Mistral (can I have my soma break now?) -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #100 **************************************