From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #102 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/102 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 102 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures. Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes [B7L] credit cards RE: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #101 Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] More dolls Re: [B7L] More dolls Re: [B7L] More dolls [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls [B7L] re:apology RE: [B7L]Collectors Lot [B7L] Zenith RE: [B7L] call the BBC Re: [B7L] Expense account Re: [B7L] B7 action figures legal firm Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities [B7L] Avon and $$$ Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities [B7L] Re: b7spin: b7spin: RSI Re: [B7L] Zenith Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities) Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:02:05 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures. Message-ID: <88T42wANtP74EwUM@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <38ECA402.4CB8@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker writes >Say, is anyone collecting the info on the 'dolls', the legal and >marketing memos, etc? >It seems like with editing it would make a good addition to someone's >website. > It is being tagged for the Space City zine. At some point I shall go around annoying authors with pleas to be allowed to use it. However, if anyone else wants to play with it, I shall desist. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:57:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Behind-the-scenes Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu 06 Apr, RCalla6725@aol.com wrote: > Oh, so quite straightforward, no behind-the-scenes cast tensions or anything > then? I assume all the cast members got on well, though I did read an > interview with Jacqueline Pearce where she claimed disagreements with the > production staff kept her out of the last few episodes... Most of the cast got on extremely well - in fact it's been said several times that the show probably only worked because of that. The shooting shcedules were so tight that if they hadn't got on, it would all have fallen a heap. Methinks you need to listen to some of the cast reunion tapes. When you hear Paul and Gareth swopping jokes and anecdotes and cheerfully upstaging one another, you'll get a fair idea what the series was like behind the scenes. Look on my web site for the 'Together Again' audio tapes. They feature quite a few cast members and some of the anecdotes are hilarious. Sheelagh started recording them a few years ago (she's doing the latest one any time now) and most of them are still available. Hear directors and producers discussing how they got around budget problems and the joys of filming in quarries. Jackie did have a disagreement - there seem to be two views on that one. She certainly was very upset at being left out of the final episode and felt that she had been deliberately slighted. The production/writer apparantly said that she'd done the number of episodes that she was contracted for for the 4th season and that the other reason she was left out was because it was becoming dramatically implausible to have Servalan turn up everywhere. Jackie is on one of the tapes, but I can't recall if that's something she talks about as I've just lent my copies to a friend. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:23:16 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] credit cards Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII After an initial glitch on foreign currency transactions (caused by Worldpay not setting up a file correctly) we now have the other currencies working as well as pounds. We just successfully processed the first dollar order and pounds have been working fine for several days. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:22:45 -0700 From: "Otewalt, Andrew" To: "'mistral@ptinet.net'" , B7 List Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <3B5D5F691204D3118C0400A0C911A490012F9044@milxpr05.kla-tencor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mistral writes: I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused by people misunderstanding each other's terminology. question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ? or do we need to read the same dictionary ? - andrew - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:31:14 EDT From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <42.3c14b94.261e5c22@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain wrote: > I find this a little odd. For all the great virtues of capitalism, it is > manifestly inconsistent with some of the most famous sayings of Jesus. You're right Iain (I pronounced it Trixie). Much of what is in the New Testament is closer in nature to socialism than capitalism. I wonder how St. Joseph would feel about sharing the wealth he made? I think you'll find most of the comments related to the worker keeping his wealth more in the Old Testament. Trish (can't wait to see what I've stirred up this time) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 00:41:09 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <003201bfa021$c8ab55e0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral said - >>In the US, capitalism means that people are entitled to accumulate and >control >whatever wealth they can earn; and it's deeply rooted in our >Judeo-Christian heritage But in fact 'capitalism' is one of those words which was invented by a particular person and defined in a particular book (like 'relativity' or 'Islam') so we do know exactly what it means, in any country. It means an economic system where the dominant group generate income from capital ('ownership of the means of production') rather than from working. The person who defined it was, of course, an atheist though admittedly from a Jewish cultural background. I think that people are confusing 'capitalism' with 'private property', which clearly existed well before capitalism - for example in the Roman empire, or in feudal Europe. And of course predates Christianity. Avon clearly did believe in private property, after a fashion, and so did Blake ('my computer', 'my ship'). However, ironically, I think they owned very little, not in the sense that we own things anyway. They lived in a communal space, ate communal food (I guess - unless there was a pay as you go cafeteria on the Liberator), wore clothes taken from a communal room etc. Didn't seem to bother them either did it? Though I wonder what happened to the gambling winnings? Trish said - >The essential nature of capitalism is based on the belief that wealth comes >from work, and that what the individual creates through his own work belongs >to him. If you really allowed workers to keep everything they created through their work, then capitalism would collapse of course. Bill Gates would be a lot poorer for a start. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:21:58 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #101 Message-ID: <38ED1C16.669F@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The Klute: > > Comes with play-along chess set with built in joy-buzzer action for when > > you lose. > > Self-destructs if you beat the chess program. (repurchases very likely) > > Obnoxious laugh > > (Seperately available conversion kits to turn Klute doll into Moloch or > > Tharn.) > > What about the Link and Decima options? (the Tharn is cheating - > different actor) > > Judith Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:13:55 EDT From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <5b.42a53a0.261e8243@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused by people misunderstanding each other's terminology. andrew (small a) replied: question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ? or do we need to read the same dictionary ? Yes, to the second. With only the Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged, I have OED envy. Trish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:15:46 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot Message-ID: <20000407001547.77086.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >After watching yesterday's Collectors Lot (very enjoyable) >I had a couple of questions: > >(1) was the Federation guard who ran on at the end > anyone we know? I don't know, but his aim was too good. Did you see all those lovely teleport bracelets go up in smoke! Please tell me they were stunt bracelets! I also thought the collectors lot program was very good. An excellent showcase of some of the props, costumes and merchandise from the show, displayed in a fantastic setting. Shame it wasn't longer. Together with the article on page 331 on 4-tel it has provided quite an advertisment for the world of Blake's 7. Andy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:23:03 EDT From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: If you really allowed workers to keep everything they created through their work, then capitalism would collapse of course. Bill Gates would be a lot poorer for a start. Not to draw too fine a line, but there is a considerable difference between a worker/laborer and an employee. An employee agrees to work for someone else who provides all of the capital that makes the business run. The employee contributes his/her labor and receives a wage in return. S/he is not entitled to keep everything made as s/he has sold the labor for a wage. I agree with your comments about the small if any personal property on B7. The few times we see their cabins, there is no personalization. Even knowing that none of them were allowed to bring personal property on The London, and all apparently exist without real ties to others, none of them accumulate anything during the years some of them live on Liberator. I think that is really interesting and would love to hear some dialogue on why these very diverse personalities are all apparently minimalists. Trish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:44:49 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] More dolls Message-ID: <20000407004449.36097.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed No, I'm afraid it's not more additions to the growing and extremely entertaining list of Blakes 7 action dolls. Sorry to disappoint, but it seemed a semi-appropriate thread to come in on. A while ago I started buying the Harlequin range of 25mm Dr Who mimiatures which are released at the rate of 8 a month. During one of my phone calls to them I asked if they planned to release any other range of sci-fi figures? They said there would be a major sci-fi line released soon, not long after, their Babylon 5 range appeared. I asked if Blakes 7 featured in their plans? To my surprise the chap I was speaking to, didn't say "Blake What?" Instead, he said not at the moment but watch this space. That happened early last year. I don't know if anyone would be interested in 25mm Blakes 7 figures. If you would, it can't hurt to drop Harlequin a line and let them know. Their address & telephone number is: HARLEQUIN MINIATURES LTD, UNIT S3, 632 RADFORD ROAD, BASFORD, NOTTINGHAM, NG7 7EX. (0115 942 2265) Meanwhile please keep all those action figure suggestions flowing onto the lyst. Andy. The Dr Who range is brilliant it would be nice to have a B7 one as well. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:45:02 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] More dolls Message-ID: <20000407004502.58040.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed No, I'm afraid it's not more additions to the growing and extremely entertaining list of Blakes 7 action dolls. Sorry to disappoint, but it seemed a semi-appropriate thread to come in on. A while ago I started buying the Harlequin range of 25mm Dr Who mimiatures which are released at the rate of 8 a month. During one of my phone calls to them I asked if they planned to release any other range of sci-fi figures? They said there would be a major sci-fi line released soon, not long after, their Babylon 5 range appeared. I asked if Blakes 7 featured in their plans? To my surprise the chap I was speaking to, didn't say "Blake What?" Instead, he said not at the moment but watch this space. That happened early last year. I don't know if anyone would be interested in 25mm Blakes 7 figures. If you would, it can't hurt to drop Harlequin a line and let them know. Their address & telephone number is: HARLEQUIN MINIATURES LTD, UNIT S3, 632 RADFORD ROAD, BASFORD, NOTTINGHAM, NG7 7EX. (0115 942 2265) Meanwhile please keep all those action figure suggestions flowing onto the lyst. Andy. The Dr Who range is brilliant it would be nice to have a B7 one as well. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:46:48 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] More dolls Message-ID: <20000407004648.17611.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed No, I'm afraid it's not more additions to the growing and extremely entertaining list of Blakes 7 action dolls. Sorry to disappoint, but it seemed a semi-appropriate thread to come in on. A while ago I started buying the Harlequin range of 25mm Dr Who mimiatures which are released at the rate of 8 a month. During one of my phone calls to them I asked if they planned to release any other range of sci-fi figures? They said there would be a major sci-fi line released soon, not long after, their Babylon 5 range appeared. I asked if Blakes 7 featured in their plans? To my surprise the chap I was speaking to, didn't say "Blake What?" Instead, he said not at the moment but watch this space. That happened early last year. I don't know if anyone would be interested in 25mm Blakes 7 figures. If you would, it can't hurt to drop Harlequin a line and let them know. Their address & telephone number is: HARLEQUIN MINIATURES LTD, UNIT S3, 632 RADFORD ROAD, BASFORD, NOTTINGHAM, NG7 7EX. (0115 942 2265) Meanwhile please keep all those action figure suggestions flowing onto the lyst. Andy. The Dr Who range is brilliant it would be nice to have a B7 one as well. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:52:47 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls Message-ID: <20000407005247.8281.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending >posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll >suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me. Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go missing! :) Andy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:53:05 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls Message-ID: <20000407005305.59747.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending >posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll >suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me. Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go missing! :) Andy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:53:05 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls Message-ID: <20000407005305.35912.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending >posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll >suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me. Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go missing! :) Andy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:54:47 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:B7 Dolls Message-ID: <20000407005447.92150.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Whoopsie! (note to self-- always, always check ep guide before sending >posts!) I didn't mention the Decima because I had a seperate Decima doll >suggestion. And the Links didn't make much of an impression on me. Another reason would be that a Link doll would always be the first to go missing! :) Andy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:58:40 GMT From: "Andy Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re:apology Message-ID: <20000407005840.20344.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Apologies that my "more dolls" post appeared 3 times on the lyst. I have no idea how it happened. It is late and I'm just an inexperienced lurker I'm afraid. Andy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:48:33 +0100 From: "Andy Hopkinson" To: "Lysator" Subject: RE: [B7L]Collectors Lot Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie wrote: >After watching yesterday's Collectors Lot (very enjoyable) >I had a couple of questions: >(1) was the Federation guard who ran on at the end >anyone we know? That depends on who you know! The Federation Guard was played by Alan Stevens. >(2) I followed the teletext link and saw a reference to an >upcoming publication called "Zenith". Would this be >NL 40 that wasn't? Zenith is a magazine in it's own right. A number of the features that were written and laid out for H40 have now dated, and therefore have been scrapped. New features have been written, including an interview with Paul Darrow about The Strangerers which will include many behind the scenes photos, which have never been seen before. Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:48:31 +0100 From: "Andy Hopkinson" To: "Lysator" Subject: [B7L] Zenith Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Hopkinson wrote: >>Alan and I will be publishing a B7 magazine of our own. It's an experiment. >>We don't know if it will be a success so we're only trying one issue initially. >>If people like it, we'll do another. Andrew Spencer wrote: >Sounds good, is there any more information about the magazine? Yes! >What is it going to be called? It is going to be called Zenith. >How much will it cost? Don't know yet, but as soon as I have a figure, We'll let you know. >When will it be available? Soon! Very soon! A matter of weeks! >Will it be in colour? Some of it will be, yes. >Is it going to be a mix of fiction/non-fiction or is it going to favour one over the other? It will have interviews, reviews, location visits, in-depth character analysis and perhaps *some* fiction. We've put a lot of work into it, but if it is to continue then it will need the support of all B7 fans out there. Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 02:48:36 +0100 From: "Andy Hopkinson" To: "Lysator" Subject: RE: [B7L] call the BBC Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: >I just this minute phoned the BBC duty log on >08700 100 222 >and told them that I loved Blakes 7, that they had to show all four series >in order, and that it was the only thing I watched on BBC on a Saturday (hem >hem - well I had to rub it in) >Anyway the guy on the other end was really sweet, and we had a bit of a >chat, and he said he liked B7 too, and he was going to pass on my message, >and also add one in his own name too. So that's two more than there were ten >minutes ago. I have some disturbing news. At the moment the BBC intend to end the Blake's 7 repeats after Orac. (There are even some rumours that the repeats may end after Duel or Project Avalon, though this may just be paranoia). I think it would be a good idea if we all followed Alison's example and phoned up the BBC after every episode, telling them that we like the series and that we would be really pleased if the repeats continued into the second series. It would also be a good idea if everyone wrote/ring the Radio Times and Points of View, saying that we approve of the repeats and would like them to continue. Radio Times 80 Wood Lane London W12 OTT Tel: 0870 608 4455 FAX: 020 8433 3923 email: radio.times@bbc.co.uk Points of View BBC TV London W12 7TS Tel/FAX: 020 8811 1050 email: pov@bbc.co.uk Terry Wogan is presenting the show at the moment. There is the Wogan factor to consider here. He was a great advocate of the series in the '70's, now that he is back on Radio 2 in the mornings, why don't we all send him some witty letters about the show! Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:18:13 -0400 From: DDJ To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Expense account Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000407011813.006c21f8@keystonenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >No, no, no! Little Red Riding Hood is turning into a PGP / Avon >metaphore! This is too ridiculous! > >Although, please note, LRRH (who was in a lot worse shape, what with >being eaten instead of just shot) _survived_. > Just in the German version. In the French version, only the wolf survives. (Probably the version Avon would've appreciated -- the moral is, loosely, that trusting the wrong person gets you killed.) And in the earliest versions, Red outwits the wolf and never gets eaten at all. (Does that make it an AU instead?) DDJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:01:53 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 action figures legal firm Message-ID: <20000406.232447.-88313.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:17:39 -0700 Helen Krummenacker writes: > > C/O Wolfram and Hart Ram (probably meant for > goat, > > an animal also associated with evil), > Those are called Billies. Sorry, I should have clarified. When I said 'meant for' I meant it in the sense of 'that was probably considered close enough by writers living in a big city where they probably haven't seen farm animals for years, if ever.' You know, like in the way many people don't differentiate between flock and herd (or various other terms describing groups of animals), because it's no longer very pertinent knowledge to have or information to give. Or maybe they just thought 'Wolf-billie' wasn't very intimidating. But, Ram is the sign of Aries, which > sounds > like Ares, god of war. Also, if you aren't paying close attention, > sounds like they are saying Wolfman. Good point! I hadn't thought of either of those possibilities. > and Hart (as in stag, probably > > connecting to certain pagan gods, often associated with death, not > to > > mention one of its more popular remnants, the Wild Hunt). > Or as a homophone for heart, the organ that pumps blood through the > human circulatory system, and is the main point of weakness on a > vampire. Or the thing which Avon claims not to have. So this is what his teddy bear's been up to. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:59:29 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <20000406.232447.-88313.1.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:31:14 EDT Prmolloy@aol.com writes: > Iain wrote: > > You're right Iain (I pronounced it Trixie). Much of what is in the > New > Testament is closer in nature to socialism than capitalism. I > wonder how St. > Joseph would feel about sharing the wealth he made? I think you'll > find most > of the comments related to the worker keeping his wealth more in the > Old > Testament. > General agreement on NT with one addition. At least in my neck of the woods, there is a heavy emphasis on this being a _willing_ sharing on the part of the person with wealth rather than a _forced_ sharing instituted by the person(s) with power, that is, if you want to call it exercising virtue or doing good. Without going into a really long discussion on the differences and similarities between the OT and the NT, the OT had a lot of reasons to lay down the law (so to speak) on behavior from a civil or legal point of view (and I'd say that commandments in the NT were generally meant in context of working with those in the OT except in cases where they superceded it), which was not so much the NT focus. So, simply because you believe in donating all your time and efforts to charity does not mean you should expect someone you hire to fix the pipes to have the same attitude - or to hold it against them if they don't. Of course, the Federation's attitude towards money is open to question. Most of the people B7 focused on were living in state housing and had government jobs. Although there clearly was a money economy of some kind going, how much the average citizen could participate in it major wage earning - even if they had exceptional skills - is open to question. Ellynne > Trish > (can't wait to see what I've stirred up this time) > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:24:45 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon and $$$ Message-ID: <20000406.232447.-88313.2.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I had to make a guess, I'd say the average Federation citizen had little chance to get rich. Social rank was determined in supposedly fair testing, but there are enough indications family position and influence played a part in how people were graded (Kasabi's references to Servalan's connections, a certain up and coming officer's complaint that he lost the promotion to the less gifted guy with the right connections, Blake's relatives being sent to a better than average prison colony [implying Rushton was also an alpha] all come to mind). Since Avon equated money with power, and no one ever flat out contradicted him (except to point out fire power also could equal more power), one might assume a tight connection. Maybe poor, little peons worked for companies or guilds that automatically took credit for all their inventions (Weapon). Hence, Avon might think about selling the Federation tech information once he was operating outside any else's system but there's no indication he tried this while in the Federation (at least, he doesn't talk about the great pay scale on the teleport project). There also seems to have been the attitude that there was a limited supply of wealth, since Avon equated increasing his piece of the pie as being a chunk out of everyone else's. This isn't an uncommon attitude, though more common in more stagnant cultures. If the Federation supplies certain basic needs for its citizens (variations based on social rank) and money impacts the average citizen as a source of extras (for Vila, wine, women, and song. For Avon, the latest Nintendo) or as a source of influence (example: head of business controlling needed labor or supplies). This might explain why, despite their many differences, the Liberator crew actually adjusts well to communal living - experience. Jenna, who operated as an independent smuggler, may have been in it for the money but, if she was used to ship living, should also be used to some kind of communal living (assuming she didn't follow the pirate scenario). Given the exceptional size of the Liberator, that might have also meant she was used to Spartan quarters. The only _personal_ possesion we know she has is her necklace (I know it came off, but I'm still wondering if it wasn't part of some cybernetic implant they stick on some pilots). Avon made particular note in Deliverance that she wouldn't have left if behind willingly. Cally wasn't from Earth, but one assumes telepaths used to going along with the great, telepathic majority and never being alone, can adjust to communal life. Vila may have been a thief, but he obviously knew how to adjust to whichever way the wind was blowing in whichever group he happened to be stuck with. As to the gambling money, Cally found out about it and got Vila to sign the whole savings account over to widows and orphans while drunk (I don't know the exact charity, but it's not like they would have had trouble finding a bunch in need). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:23:54 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <032701bfa062$44874c60$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison wrote: > Mistral said - > > >>In the US, capitalism means that people are entitled to accumulate and > >control >whatever wealth they can earn; and it's deeply rooted in our > >Judeo-Christian heritage > > But in fact 'capitalism' is one of those words which was invented > by a particular person and defined in a particular book (like 'relativity' > or 'Islam') so we do know exactly what it means, in any country. It means an > economic system where the dominant group generate income from capital > ('ownership of the means of production') rather than from working. Not wanting to sound like I'm marking essays, but thank you, Alison, for a precise and contextualized definition. Interestingly, I note that that definition does not preclude a 'dominant group' which defines itself as 'the state'. > I think that people are confusing 'capitalism' with 'private property', Definitely. > which clearly existed well before capitalism - for example in the Roman > empire, or in feudal Europe. And of course predates Christianity. And, just to plug my hero, there is an unparalleled dissection of the private property debate in More's 'Utopia'. Umm, B7... Good, isn't it? Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:20:49 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: <032601bfa062$4420e970$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit andrew wrote: > Mistral writes: > I've often suspected that most of the arguments in the world are caused by > people misunderstanding each other's terminology. > > question: would this be cured by all of us speaking esperanto ? > or do we need to read the same dictionary ? Brr, shades of '1984'. I'll keep the messy uncertainties of potential misunderstandings, thank you very much. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:26:35 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: [B7L] Re: b7spin: b7spin: RSI Message-ID: <38ED8DAB.B7081F25@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > Dragon Naturally Speaking 4, Standard version. Thank you for the report, Julia. I've just one more question. Do you have to speak loudly in order for the program to work properly, or does softly work as well, as long as you speak distinctly? Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 08:55:14 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" To: andyrh@netcomuk.co.uk, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith Message-ID: <20000407085514.30651.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Andy Hopkinson wrote: >It will have interviews, reviews, location visits, in-depth character >analysis and perhaps *some* fiction. We've put a lot of work into it, but >if >it is to continue then it will need the support of all B7 fans out there. >Andy. Well you've got mine. Just let me know how much (when you know) and how to get it and you can put me down for a copy. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:39:45 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" To: stickman1968@hotmail.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot Message-ID: <20000407093945.84308.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Andy Spencer" >To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se >Subject: Re: [B7L]Collectors Lot >Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:15:46 GMT > > > > >>After watching yesterday's Collectors Lot (very enjoyable) >>I had a couple of questions: >> >>(1) was the Federation guard who ran on at the end >> anyone we know? > >I don't know, but his aim was too good. Did you see all those lovely >teleport bracelets go up in smoke! Please tell me they were stunt >bracelets! Yeah, specially trained Mongolian stunt braclets that were found performing in a circus in Minsk four years ago and smuggled into the country wrapped in condoms and hidden inside the bellys of King Penguins! (thought I had to get penguins in there somewhere!) :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 12:55:31 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Message-ID: <20000407125531.13016.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Judith Proctor >To: Lysator List >Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:45:05 +0100 (BST) > >On Thu 06 Apr, Ellynne G. wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:29:39 +0100 "Ariana" >writes: > > > > > > Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know who > > > Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily blown >into > > > oblivion. > > > > > The answer just hit me! Jenna (free trader and the person expected to > > have raw nerves about pirates) took Blake aside and told him that if he > > gave into his bleeding heart tendencies to let these people go, he >wasn't > > supposed to be surprised when the teleport malfunctioned and his atoms >on > > the galactic express, understood? > >Well, they did appear to be people who had no qualms about letting an >entire >planet starve to death. That makes them ruthless and potentially >extremely dangerous in anyone's book. Not necessarily - that presumes that Sara told her contacts that she was stealing the neutrotope from a bunch of desperate people. Maybe the people who were coming to buy it were equally desperate and didn't ask too many questions about where she was getting it from. (I'm not sure that if I were Sara I'd admit to stealing the neutrotope and condemming my own planet to death, it might make people distrust me. I'd just make myself seem like a legitimate vendor.) Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:04:46 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" Message-ID: <20000407130446.34573.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Hellen Paskaleva" >To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se >Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny" >Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:29:50 PDT > >Mat and Ariana: >>> > explosive device that Blake placed on the entry hatch... >>>Also, why did he want to *blow up* their ship? He didn't even know who >>>Sara's contacts were. Maybe they didn't deserve to be summarily blown >>>into >>>oblivion. >> >>Exactly my thought Ariana. Blake had no information about Sara's buyers at >>all, he simply *assumed* that they were nasty and blew them up. > >*We* have no information who they were. Blake obviously had. I don't see that at all. Where would he have got this information from anyway? Presumably only Sara knew who her contacts were. I see Blake making a snap decision about a percieved threat without actually taking the time to find out anything. Besides there really was no need to blow up the ship, despite the depleted energy banks the Liberator could easily have escaped whilst the two ships were docking if Blake was relly worried about a battle. >>Would you really want a man like that running the Government? :) > >If it were up to me, I would undoubtedly answer with "yes", because extreme >situations need desperate measures and a person, brave enough to take the >responsibility for them. provided that those decisions are reasonable and informed, not merely explosive kneee-jerk reactions. (Moreover, people, who are ready to doom a >whole >planet to starvation, death and Federal yoke, *deserve* their fate.) We don't know that they knew anything about conditions on Destiny or about the neutrotope's current owners. Also, presumably, if they needed the neutrotope they had problems similar to Destiny's anyway. Maybe they were their planet's last hope and Blake has just condemmed their planet to starvation! Also I'm not sure that it is up to Blake to appoint himself judge, jury and executioner. Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 05:14:12 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities Message-ID: <38EDD113.EACF30FC@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BTW, just noticed the last post went to the wrong list, sorry. Re Avon creating wealth, Trish said: > I wonder how confined he really was in an > expanding empire. We're told in Aftermath that Federation citizens needed permission to relocate (somehow I don't believe Servalan about the 'small' fine). Given the relative value of his skills on Earth vs. a frontier world, I doubt he'd be given permission. Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 06:34:29 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Avon's Dream Job (was Re: [B7L] UnAmerican activities) Message-ID: <38EDE3E5.97024786@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > Good god, this time it's Mistral's post I can append "me too!" to. > (Don't all faint in shock.) Um. Well, if you want, we could always argue about what Avon would have liked to do if he'd been given the choice :) I'm thinking, in an environment he felt safe in, he'd have liked to do pure research. He loves to tinker, explore, invent. Research would have given him enjoyment in his work, a good chance at putting his name on something, and an outside chance at getting rich (which I think would have diminished in importance if he felt in control of his own life.) Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:20:43 -0400 (EDT) From: sjk3@cornell.edu To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Blake didn't even have to be physically present in the last two seasons. He > was a dominant force, and may have been even more so without exposure to the > real human falliable Blake. It was enough that Avon believed Blake was out > there, until of course they very very end when Avon ended the search rather > abruptly. > > Trish This is interesting. Was Blake the legend a more powerful motivator, even for the crew, than Blake the man? Did Avon find it easier to blame Blake for failures when he (Blake) wasn't there to present his case? Sandra Kisner sjk3@cornell.edu -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #102 **************************************