From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #196 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/196 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 196 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock [B7L] Servalan as Jareth [B7L] Re: posts on Shrinker & treatment thereof. Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) Re: [B7L] Sally Knyvette Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) Re: [B7L] Re: posts on Shrinker & treatment thereof. [B7L] Stock equalization Re: [B7L] Re: Susan Matthews, PGP Vila, etc. Re: [B7L] Re: After the revolution [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette [B7L] Nexus [B7L] REfractions Re: [B7L] Corrections/Additions on Zenith & Misc. [B7L] Re: APE Re: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock RE: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) RE: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock [B7L] Re: Bleeding onto the page Re: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) [B7L] Una convincing Neil to do a webzine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:14:07 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <39.73aa46a.269aa78f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/7/00 1:53:17 AM Mountain Daylight Time, smanton@hotmail.com writes: > Nina wrote: > original ST's bit with the space hippies --> > > True, but they did have Space Rats ... But at least they didn't SING! Nina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:14:05 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <3a.7999f21.269aa78d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/6/00 11:10:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, j_macqueen@hotmail.com writes: > Please, not Gene Simmons! Mercy! Yeah, well, Paul Stanley doesn't really wear enough studs, does he? Snarly's prettier than Ace and Peter's just too...nice. Yep, I'm afraid it's gotta be Gene! Nina (now afraid she'll find the KISS comics whilst unpacking -- ack!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:14:04 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <8e.788af9d.269aa78c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/6/00 11:01:58 PM Mountain Daylight Time, B7Morrigan@aol.com writes: > Was it the clothing? I don't think it was the tongue (oh, better go to the > other list...) Alas, I fear we'll never know... OTOH, my late-teen fascination with the whole KISS studs'n'leather shtick might have been a foreshadowing of my later drooling over Snarly! Nina ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:04:12 +0200 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock Message-ID: In message , B7Morrigan@aol.com writes >To assist, I've been using Judith's list of zines, some of which have >reviews, but I don't see Refractions on the list of B7 gen or adult/slash. Look in the multimedia gen zines section. There's a large collection of multimedia zines, including several issues of Refractions, which include B7 material. The zine database has the B7 content listed. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 21:33:59 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Servalan as Jareth Message-ID: <39695237.9BE@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >From: Kathryn Andersen > >What, she reminds you of Jareth from Labyrinth because she's cool, or > >because he defies gender roles? > > Thankyou to the pair of you, because I'm now trying to get rid of the idea > of Servalan reeling off the "You remind me of the babe" bit of the movie, > with assorted troops and toyboys standing in for the goblins! > > Regards > Joanne And now I have an image of her standing at the top of an M.C. Escher stairway, with Avon below (depending on perspective) "Everything I've done, I've done for you! I move the the stars for no one." ::shiver:: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:17:04 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: posts on Shrinker & treatment thereof. Message-ID: <39695C50.3685@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am I the only one, besides Cally, who was bothered by the other rebels surrounding and taunting Shrinker while Avon went off? Frankly, Avon had strong presonal reasons for leaving Shrinker with a gun in a cave without an opening. The sentence was death, passed on Shrinker's self-admitted crimes. It was made as dispassionately as possible (typical of a judge giving sentence) and the means to chose a quick or slow death left up to the disposition of the individual. Avon even gave him a chance to preserve his dignity in death. I found the taunts of Vila, Dayna, and Tarrant a form of torture. They knew the appeal to his conscience wouldn't have an effect, but they wanted him to know he was completely in the power of ruthless people who hated him with all the passion of those who sincerely believe in their moral superiority. They were attempting to disorient him with their circling and badgering. Avon was hard, but acting on a notion of revenge as justice. Why Vila, Tarrant, and Dayna acted that way--? We can charitably say they were so disturbed by Avon's condition they were trying to avenge him, or we can say that his cowardice/nastiness combination allowed them to indulge latent bullying streaks without guilt. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:02:24 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) Message-ID: <396974FF.22A67A21@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: > I tend to need 3-4 hours warm-up time before > I can even start writing, and these days I'm lucky to get even that. Regular > 12-15 hour stints at the keyboard are out of the question, and it could take > me that long to produce just one paragraph. I am not a fast writer. LOL, something in common. I often spend an all-nighter coming up with three sentences (and occasionally erase those the next day). Perhaps we need the help of Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle. (Though sometimes, usually at the beginning of a project when I'm still inspired, I might get two or three good pages that come out in a rush, more or less whole; ever get that?) I'm told the cure is to sit down and write whatever comes out, whether it has anything to do with the story or not, and without editing; dump the garbage to get down to the good stuff. Piers Anthony does something like this; I saw a reproduction of part of a first draft of his, full of everything from to-do lists to questions to research to actual paragraphs of the story. I'm reluctant to change workstyles in the middle of a piece, for fear of damaging it (such as it is), but I'm thinking of trying this 'dump-writing' style next time, to try and get to a rough draft faster. Why don't you try it as well? (Dare ya!!) 'Twould be interesting to compare people's working styles. Quick or slow? Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking? Beginning to end, or jumping around? Outline or not? Know the end when starting, or not? Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day? Anybody? ObB7: Nation and Boucher of course had to produce scripts on a tight schedule--no staring at the blinking cursor allowed, I suppose. They did rather well, considering. -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:30:31 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Sally Knyvette Message-ID: <20000710093031.59233.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Neil wrote: Well, there *are* some indications that Blake confided rather more in Cally than the rest ... okay, not a lot of proof, but some. We have to be fair to the writers, though; in my experience of fanfic, that's much the same. Blake's the leader and eponymous hero so he has to do a lot of the talking, and Avon and Vila are just so much more *fun* to write (well, IMO so is Blake, but ) ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 02:31:23 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <20000710093123.20996.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Me: Space Rats ...> Nina: I dunno ... given it's likely that most of them couldn't carry a tune in an intergalactic dump truck, that could be rather fun ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:51:03 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) Message-ID: <0ca801bfea6d$88c8d060$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: > I'm told the cure is to sit down and write whatever comes out, > whether it has anything to do with the story or not, and without > editing; dump the garbage to get down to the good stuff. Piers > Anthony does something like this; I saw a reproduction of part of > a first draft of his, full of everything from to-do lists to questions > to research to actual paragraphs of the story. I'm reluctant to > change workstyles in the middle of a piece, for fear of damaging > it (such as it is), but I'm thinking of trying this 'dump-writing' style > next time, to try and get to a rough draft faster. Why don't you > try it as well? (Dare ya!!) > > 'Twould be interesting to compare people's working styles. Quick > or slow? Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking? Beginning to end, > or jumping around? Outline or not? Know the end when starting, > or not? Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day? Anybody? I'm definitely a dump-writer. I always have a very good idea of where I want a piece to go before I even start it. Not to the extent of it basically being a transcription of what I've been thinking, but I always have a very firm idea of the structure and I usually have the beginning and the end quite clear in my mind. It's invariably a single draft with tweaking. Once I start, I don't like to stop. The long story on 'The Aquitar Files' ('A Little Knowledge') was written across about a week. Sessions can get *very* obsessive! When I do stop, it really breaks my rhythm and it can be a fair while before I can go back to a story (if ever). Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:45:15 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: posts on Shrinker & treatment thereof. Message-ID: <0ca701bfea6d$88733650$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen K wrote: > Am I the only one, besides Cally, who was bothered by the other rebels > surrounding and taunting Shrinker while Avon went off? This scene is one of those I remembered distinctly from first watching the show, it made such an impression on me. 'He's an animal, Cally.' - 'Yes, and it's contagious, isn't it?' Great stuff. > Why Vila, Tarrant, and Dayna acted that way--? We can > charitably say they were so disturbed by Avon's condition they were > trying to avenge him, or we can say that his cowardice/nastiness > combination allowed them to indulge latent bullying streaks without > guilt. I'm definitely with the second interpretation. What I like best about all these scenes on the Liberator in RoD is that no-one is acting well, yet you remain sympathetic to them. Avon is operating purely from revenge, yet you admire his singleminded pursuit of justice. Dayna, Tarrant and Vila turn on a defenceless man - but one who just a few minutes previously had been prepared to burn out Avon's eyes. Cally keeps the moral high ground, but it so damn pious about the whole thing. Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:03:52 +0000 From: Murray To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] Stock equalization Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sarah and Fiona, >Fiona, in addition to Dayna and her father, and the two warlords, there is >also an anonymous black individual in "Traitor," presumably thrown in just >to prove Avon corect in his statement that Dayna would not be conspicuous on >Helotrix because the Stock Equalization Act was in force at the time it was >settled. I assume that bit must have been put in because the BBC had been >getting awkward questions as to why there were no black people besides the >Mellanbys themselves in Series 3. > >Even so, the African contingent in B7 is doing better than the East Asian >contingent, which is represented only by that single rather unpleasant >individual in "Children"-- Glinka, I think his name is. What I found interesting about the Mellanbys was that they regarded the (white) Sarrans as inferior, but only because they were 'uncivilized', not on racial grounds. Also, Servalan's hostility towards Hal Mellanby was merely political, based on him being a rebel. Regarding Asians, the passing over of Ginka for promotion does not appear to have been on racial grounds. I believe that we can assume the existence of a prevailing attitude of racial equality in the Federation; and I also believe that the same can be said about equality between the sexes. In the series, none of Servalan's enemies ever asserted that she was unfit for the offices she held because she was a woman. Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:03:45 +0000 From: Murray To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Susan Matthews, PGP Vila, etc. Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nyder, >Likewise skirting the borders of Freedom City (and not stopping to flip >through the mags either) but remember one of the characteristics of the >Cheerful Cockney/humourous "lower" (sic, guys) class character is that s/he >is sensual and generally oversexed. This is a stereotype, actually, which >seems to get applied to most if not all oppressed groups, African-Americans >and homosexuals being the two that leap to mind first. I would correct you a little in that this sensual steryotype is directed against groups that are _seen_ as threatening, whether they are actually oppressed or not. For example, after the Act of Union between England and Scotland in 1707, many Scotsmen of all classes went south to better themselves. At the time, there was a huge amount of anti-Scottish propaganda, which included contentions that they were oversexed. As an example, the new King George III appointed as Prime Minister the Earl of Bute, a Scottish nobleman, who was believed by hostile propaganda to be the lover of that monarch's mother. Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:03:35 +0000 From: Murray To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: After the revolution Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kat and Nyder, >> > Is Cygnus Alpha part of the Federation at all? It appears to be just a >> > place where the Federation dump people, >> >> Maybe this is unsupported, but I got the impression that it was sort of like >> eighteenth-century Australia; part of the Federation, but in such an early >> stage of colonization that they don't worry too much about it. > >> > If Cygnus Alpha is not a full part of the Federation, this can be used to >> > explain any deviation from the latter's religious prohibition policy. >> >> Re the religious prohibition policy: perhaps such a mandate was just in >> practice too difficult to police, and so pockets of religious feeling >> continued to exist on the periphery. > >I would have thought that penal colonists would be considered >non-persons, yeah, not worth bothering with, *certainly* not worth >policing. Mind you, it makes one wonder why they bothered shipping >them out at all, it would have been cheaper just to execute them. The difference with eighteenth-century Australia was that Cygnus Alpha had no manifestations of Federation authority _whatsoever_, there being no need for such things as the convicts were stuck on the planet. Because of this, the religion that emerged on Cygnus would not have been a threat to the Federation. In terms of not executing them, my suggestion is that the Federation shipped the convicts to Cygnus Alpha as a show of clemency, giving them a chance (it would claim) to redeem themselves through hard work. Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:01:14 EDT From: JEB31538@cs.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy gave this site for a parody of Horizon. http://www.geocities.com/rooneia_vijensis/ Thanks, Wendy, for listing the site. I'd never seen it before, and it's really cute. My only disappointment was that it wasn't developed in more detail. But what was there was very amusing and well done. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:29:25 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Nexus Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII This is a brief con report because I'm knackered and there were loads of zine orders waiting when I got home. In a nutshell, Nexus is a really good con. I intend to go next year regardless of who the guests are and it's very rare indeed that I say that (I think only Cult TV and Ecclecticon have ever had that status until now - Who's 7 would have done, but it always had a B7 guest anyway). Nexus is my type of event. In addition to enjoying listening to Paul's guest talk, I also went along to the interactive programme and that was really good. I'm the kind of sad person who really enjoys listening to an aerospace engineer analysing the design of Thunderbird 2 and managing to find plausible reasons for most of it. (though I fear Cloudbase from another Anderson series had some rather serious design flaws) I like discussing the possibility of data crystals (and was really evil when I discovered that my long ago O-level in geology could be used to generate difficult questions) and had a great session with the people discusing the merits of good scripts versus good special effects. The panel member who said 'Invasion Earth' summed up my views perfectly. (great special effects cannot compensate for bad acting and a lousy script) There were some great-sounding sessions that I missed while minding the Redemption stand. "Will you swop?" I asked Eddie. No such luck - he wanted to go to the same session. Then there were the great ones that clashed. Paul Darrow won out over a discussion on the future of Crusade. My definition of a good convention is how many things I had to miss and regretted missing. There were at least half a dozen at Nexus. We also had good sessions in the evening. The Jarvis hotel has a really good social area with lots of comfy chairs and good air-conditioning (clears the cigarette smoke) and I had a lot of interesting chats with other fans. Emma Peel did a Wobblevision session which was an absolute hoot. We all got assigned our parts for Rumours of Death and had ten minutes to find a suitable costume. The random assignment led to some highly amusing casting. As I was in an Avon costume, fate decreed that I drew Tarrant . My husband, wearing a bright orange Hawiaian shirt, drew Avon - but my costume didn't fit him . He got the studded vest, but that was all. I got the fluffy black wig that someone else had brought. Servalan was drawn by David McIntee (imagine a middle-aged man with a beard and a Glaswegan accent if you don't know David). I'm really looking forward to the photos on Emma's web site! This one had to be seen to be believed (a true testament to David's sense of humour). Shrinker's laser probe was hastily constructed out of a toilet brush! I haven't enjoyed an evening so much in ages, well, except perhaps the Friday night of the con when one vampire, half a dozen Centari and one Avon went out the Bristol hippodrome and blended perfectly into the audience for the Rocky Horror show! All together now - "Let's do the time warp again." The people running the event were friendly and helpful. There was the occasional cancelled/rearranged session, but that's inevitable in any convention. If Jackie Pearce turns up at the last moment (with impeccable timing on a perfect entrance line during Paul's talk and really delighting the audience who hadn't known she would be there) then you adapt events to fit this. There were long autograph queues, but many cons have problems in this area (I'd say Cult TV and Neutral Zone cope best of the cons that I've been to - they both have ways of getting people to turn up in small groups rather than everyone queueing for ages) As I don't collect autographs, this didn't cause me any problems anyway. The main reason I'm not repeating what Paul said is that apart from the news he'll be involved in a radio play about monks and nuns it was mostly stuff I'd heard before. I'm hoping that someone who's been to fewer cons than me will be able to write about it and convey the enthusiam that one has when seeing Paul for the first time. (I should add that Paul isn't dull even when you know the answers. He's a great entertainer.) The con charity was the National Library for the Blind. Their particular aim is to make more SF available to the blind. I hope they succeeded. It was a great convention. Judith PS. I must say thank you to my husband. He spent a lot of time looking after the table in the dealers' room, handing out Redemption flyers and selling zines. That gave me a lot more time than I normally have to take part in the actual convention. (But then if Nexus hadn't had a lot to do, he wouldn't have come because the boys would have been bored. As it was, they enjoyed themselves too.) I spent some time on the table to give him a break, but it's also nice to chat to passing fans. If you're selling B7 fanzines then, surprise surprise, you meet B7 fans. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:42:37 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] REfractions Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Refractions is a nice little zine with some good stories. I always find it hard to sell because it's multimedia, but it's well worth checking out because apart from the high standard of writing and layout, its also Australian and that (due to the exchange rate and printing costs) means it's good value for money. I've got copies of Refractions 3,4,5 for sale that Kathryn gave me last time she was over here (I just sold my last copy of 6 at Nexus), but the zine doesn't sell as well as I feel it deserves. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:45:14 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Corrections/Additions on Zenith & Misc. Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 08 Jul, JEB31538@cs.com wrote: > Judith's website says Liberatored (Sheelagh Wells's audio tape) is out of > print now. I don't know if that's an error or not. The last I heard both > Blake's Back and Liberatored were NOW currently in stock for a brief time. > The tapes are $15 for Americans. I urge everyone who doesn't have them to > order them now--either through Judith's website or directly from Sheelagh. > You might have to Email Judith to find out if the comment on Liberatored is > true or not. I think she just forgot to remove the notation. I hope > that's the case. If not, then the reprint runs are really LIMITED. we need to catch up with te updates there (Richard's been busy installing new sorfware and various pretty bits of hardware on his computer, so he's a bit behind on the site until he's got everything working together properly) Essentially, if you want to pay in pounds or US dollars, then order Blake's Back and Liberatored from sheelagh. (she can take US$ cheques) If you want to pay by credit card, then order from me. (but contact me by e-mail first as they won't appear on my normal order form) The idea is for me to take the aus and European orders. There's only a limited stock and sheelagh would prefer people to get them directly from her if possible. > > It is definite that Blake will be the next model and is in progress right > now. He's ready now. Kelvin's just catching up on a backlog of painting Avons and then he'll start painting Blakes. Blake is wearing his landing outfit - the green parka that appears in a lot of episodes. There'll be a picture on the web site before long. Do be sure to visit Judith's website and specifically Email her which > models you want to buy NEXT after Avon and Blake. It's expensive, but > let's face it---after over 20 years, don't we deserve to finally have some > models? Support this project. I think Travis is probably next. I don't know if Ian will be doing Travis 1 or Travis 2. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:36:45 EDT From: JEB31538@cs.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: APE Message-ID: <76.f890ef.269b63ad@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una, you are the only one I remember saying that you ordered APE. Would you give us a report on the Blake's 7 cartoon strip in it when you get the magazine? I heard back from APE http://www.apemag.demon.co.uk/ and Cornelius says the strip will be a series. However, spending 21 pounds for an overseas subscription for a comic strip is just too pricey. From what I've seen of APE from the website, I'd say I was definitely not interested in the rest of the magazine. I'm too old and definitely not hip, and the target audience for this magazine seems to be young people, 15-30, I'm guessing. By the way, Una, I liked your article in ZENITH about how badly the Beeb treated the B7 reruns this year. And I definitely think Americans spending 12 dollars cash for ZENITH from Judith Proctor is a very good deal. Joyce Bowen JEB31538@cs.com Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:37:57 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page Message-ID: <002001bfea95$964cb760$06ee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral asked: >'Twould be interesting to compare people's working styles. Quick or slow? Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking? Beginning to end, or jumping around? Outline or not? Know the end when starting, or not? Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day? Anybody?< How can I resist? :-) I'm a fairly quick writer but like Neil and Mistral I need time to "get into" the story. That takes at least half an hour and I do it by reading over what I've already done. I too find it much easier to rewrite what's already there so at first I just keep on writing even though I know it's bad. On going over it again and again I gradually adjust it until I'm satisfied. Then I let it rest story for a few weeks and go back to it and find a lot of things which need changing that escaped me earlier. I can keep tinkering with it forever and at some time just have to say: "Enough!" I love to write dialogue, which consequently is what I'm best at. Also, I find it much more easier to write fiction than fact. Facts need to be precisely worded, while a story can be told in many different ways. To bring this on topic: writing B7 stories seems to go almost by itself but I'm really sweating over the episode reviews. :-) Does anyone else suffer from the frustration of getting much more ideas for stories than one will ever be able to write? Right now I'm finishing off one story (you'll get it, Neil, when it's ready) and have already three others worked out in my head and some dozen loose ideas floating. >ObB7: Nation and Boucher of course had to produce scripts on a tight schedule--no staring at the blinking cursor allowed, I suppose. They did rather well, considering.< Extremely well, with the pressure they were under. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:22:32 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Message-ID: <000701bfea9b$210d1840$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: > > http://www.geocities.com/rooneia_vijensis/ > > > > Most of it seemed to be an in-joke, but the layout is > > just perfect, and the zine page is a real laugh-- > > anyone else seen it? > > Parodies are always amusing and this one is no exception. Agreed. Thanks to Wendy for finding this one. > However, if this > opens up THAT subject again, I'm off to find a bolthole. Seconded. It's far too soon to go through all that again. November, maybe. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:14:08 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock Message-ID: <000601bfea9b$20115320$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Una McCormack > Why not do a webzine then, Neil? That's just design and layout, and no > printing, distribution or cost at all. You mean, do a webzine for people who have never heard of the Aquitar Files? What about contributions from people who are not online? How do they get their trib copy? Or do I just say, 'Sorry, I can't take your story, you're not online'? And if they are online, why don't they just stick their fanfic up on their own website? Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:27:19 +-100 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) Message-ID: <01BFEAA0.0596D060@host213-1-165-174.btinternet.com> Mistral wrote: >'Twould be interesting to compare people's working styles. Quick >or slow? Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking? Beginning to end, >or jumping around? Outline or not? Know the end when starting, >or not? Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day? Anybody? I consider myself slow, but having read that people can spend an entire night writing 3 sentences maybe I'm not as bad as I thought! Two hours for one scene is pretty usual. I only write one draft, but it gets tweaked multiple times. My writing sessions usually last 3-4 hours at a time, sometimes only 2 hours if that's all I have spare. The two hour sessions do tend to irritate me though - firstly because I'm often in the middle of a section when I get dragged away and secondly because I have the bad habit of starting from the beginning of the story every time. I tell myself I'll reread the previous sections just to get back into the story, but what happens of course is that I spot something I'm not happy with and end up editing. Lots. My two hour writing sessions have been known to turn into nothing but editing sessions. It's a habit I'm deliberately curing myself of, forcing myself to start writing the next bit and then go back and edit the whole thing when it's finished. Generally I write beginning to end, but if one of the later scenes suddenly jumps into my head complete with dialogue, I'll write that down before I forget it. I always know a rough outline and the ending when I start. On the one occasion I was inspired to write a story simply by the image of a single scene, I didn't start writing 'til over a week later when I'd figured out how to wrap a plot around it. I certainly don't know every last detail of the plot when I start. Generally, I have a beginning, an end and one or two middle bits, and figure out as I go along how to link them together. If I try to plot it all out at the start it's much harder - things tend to sort themselves out naturally once I start writing and by the time I get to the blank bit I've sussed it out. My editing process is obsessive and I'm never happy. I would say I tend to edit everything a minimum of 10 times, and the tenth time I'm still finding things I want to change. I often leave a story alone for 1-3 weeks shortly after it's finished then go back to re-edit with a fresher eye. And then at some point when I'm sick of the sight of the thing, I give up and call it finished by default! Louise ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:06:12 +-100 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Bleeding onto the page Message-ID: <01BFEAA2.6E579BA0@host213-1-165-174.btinternet.com> Marian wrote: >Does anyone else suffer from the frustration of getting much more ideas >for stories than one will ever be able to write? Right now I'm finishing off >one story (you'll get it, Neil, when it's ready) and have already three >others worked out in my head and some dozen loose ideas floating. Not for B7, oddly, despite it being my favourite fandom by far. After 8 years in B7 circles, my stories are in single figures, and all quite short. Recently I have found a fandom where this happens, and for the last 5 months I've had a queue of ideas. I'm not sure I like it, it's eating up my life and my other hobbies have all gone right out of the window... Louise ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:42:48 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "b7" Subject: Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock Message-ID: <0d5701bfea9e$de2f5700$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: > From: Una McCormack > > Why not do a webzine then, Neil? That's just design and layout, and no > > printing, distribution or cost at all. > > You mean, do a webzine for people who have never heard of the Aquitar Files? Just because there's one B7 webzine out there doesn't mean there can't be more. I regularly read two DS9 ones (the editors publish every two months, BTW, tho' that's not a commitment I'd like to take on). > What about contributions from people who are not online? How do they get > their trib copy? Or do I just say, 'Sorry, I can't take your story, you're > not online'? That's up to you as the editor and the author, I guess. Would someone who isn't online be interested in contributing to a webzine? > And if they are online, why don't they just stick their fanfic up on their > own website? Maybe they're not HTML literate. Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:02:36 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Bleeding onto the page Message-ID: <396A1DCC.E4F35F5E@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: > 'Twould be interesting to compare people's working styles. Quick > or slow? Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking? Beginning to end, > or jumping around? Outline or not? Know the end when starting, > or not? Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day? Anybody? Hmm, let's see... To answer those in order: 1) I can write pretty quickly once I get going, but actually getting myself to sit down at the keyboard and stay there until the words start flowing is *hard*. So it can take me a very long time to get anything written. 2) One, plus tweaking. 3) I tend to be a very linear thinker, so it's usually beginning to end... But the last thing I wrote, I found myself jumping around all over the place, and that seemed to work OK. (I probably never would have even gotten the thing started if I had to start at the beginning.) So maybe I'll do that more often in future. I'm still learning this stuff. 4) Major outline. Or, more accurately, a *lot* of scribbled notes which, when combined together in a somewhat non-intuitive order, contain a description of pretty much everything that happens in the story, including large chunks of dialog. 5) I don't think I *can* start until I have at least some idea of the end. Endings are important. They can determine the tone of the whole story. 6) It depends. I'll do at most an hour a day for ages (and have great trouble motivating myself to do that), and then suddenly I'll just find myself taking an entire weekend and obsessing over the thing until it's pretty much done. > ObB7: Nation and Boucher of course had to produce scripts on a > tight schedule--no staring at the blinking cursor allowed, I suppose. > They did rather well, considering. Well, if they were anything like me (doubtful, I know!), having a deadline probably *helped*. -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:16:55 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: Bleeding onto the page (was Re: Re [B7L] Pressure Point out of stock) Message-ID: <000601bfeaa8$653d8880$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: > Neil wrote: > > > I tend to need 3-4 hours warm-up time before > > I can even start writing, and these days I'm lucky to get even that. Regular > > 12-15 hour stints at the keyboard are out of the question, and it could take > > me that long to produce just one paragraph. I am not a fast writer. > > LOL, something in common. I often spend an all-nighter coming > up with three sentences (and occasionally erase those the next day). > Perhaps we need the help of Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle. Been there done that etc. I find that I tend to write better at night, or at least write more at night, which just adds to my difficulties since I work the night shift. > (Though sometimes, usually at the beginning of a project when > I'm still inspired, I might get two or three good pages that come > out in a rush, more or less whole; ever get that?) Yes, though not necessarily at the start. The last big rush I had was when I was rewriting Candle In The Dark. Not my best story, but there were some bits in there I was rather pleased with. One passage almost wrote itself, the words just flowed out in a steady stream, and I was just about ready to finish and save to disc when ... the computer crashed. And since I was due to leave for work in about an hour, I had to hurriedly reboot and rewrite as much of it as I could while it was still fresh in my mind. > I'm told the cure is to sit down and write whatever comes out, > whether it has anything to do with the story or not, and without > editing; dump the garbage to get down to the good stuff. I have tried this, starting at a particular time and saying to myself, "Right, 300 words in the next hour, even if it just means the quick brown fox dies of exhaustion". It sort of worked for about three days, when the appointed hour suddenly became unavailable and the brave new rigorous schedule became unavailable. Piers > Anthony does something like this; I saw a reproduction of part of > a first draft of his, full of everything from to-do lists to questions > to research to actual paragraphs of the story. I'm reluctant to > change workstyles in the middle of a piece, for fear of damaging > it (such as it is), but I'm thinking of trying this 'dump-writing' style > next time, to try and get to a rough draft faster. Why don't you > try it as well? (Dare ya!!) Writers do develop odd techniques to get that 90 per cent perspiration done. Dumas, apparently, wrote in the nude, in a bare room containing only one table and one chair (with paper and pen, obviously). He would even get a servant to lock him in the room and not let him out until he'd written the requisite number of words for the day. I can't say I've tried that one. I haven't got a servant, for one thing. I heard of another writer who would stick his pages on the wall. If he was happy with them, they were the right way up. If they needed rewriting, they went up at an angle. Anything upside down needed serious reworking. Another trick I've employed myself is to stop in mid-sentence, when you know how it's going to carry on. Supposedly helps you to pick up the thread next time. It works too - when I've gone back to the story a day later, I finish that sentence in no time:) > 'Twould be interesting to compare people's working styles. Quick > or slow? Multiple drafts or one plus tweaking? Beginning to end, > or jumping around? Outline or not? Know the end when starting, > or not? Long obsessive sessions, or an hour a day? Anybody? Slow, definitely. One draft, tweaked as I go (I will go back and tweak as changes have to be made), but I like to get it as near perfect as possible first time around. I normally start a story knowing how I want it to end, in fact I normally start knowing the end and then invent a beginning. Before getting stuck somewhere in the middle. I rarely have anything more than a rudimentary outline, which might be where a lot of my plots founder because they tend to be complicated. I've tried listing all the various elements and how they play off against each other, but then I tend to end up getting lost. One story had (pause for deep breath) Blake's crew, a corrupt government, two rebel factions, at least two freelance mercenaries, the Auron intelligence service, Federation Central Security, a Space Command contingent and an Outer World corporation, all freely stabbing each other in the back as they pursued their conflicting agendas. I nearly always invent a few original characters for a story, indeed they might be the primary focus of a story, which can make it hard to give breathing space for all the regulars. I did it with Hunter, though - the five on the Liberator, with decent roles for about seven originals. Dammit, you're inspiring me! (Mistral snickers to herself, "It's working, it's working ha-ha-ha!!") Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:22:54 EDT From: B7Morrigan@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Una convincing Neil to do a webzine Message-ID: <7f.6d97062.269b8a9e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > And if they are online, why don't they just stick their fanfic up on their > > own website? > > Maybe they're not HTML literate. > They might not be HTML literate and face it, no matter how highly each of us thinks of our own writing, it is rare that a story doesn't benefit from a good editor. I'd be content if you did another paper zine Neil, and if you're looking for stories, I'll send you one that you should receive shortly after Marians Morrigan (aka Trish) "I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. " -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #196 **************************************