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blakes7-d Digest				Volume 00 : Issue 204

Today's Topics:
	 RE: [B7L] aussies
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Re: winspit quarry trip
	 Re: [B7L] out-takes
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Re: winspit quarry trip (Oz members)
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 [B7L] Nexus 2000
	 Re: [B7L] aussies
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
	 [B7L] Avatars
	 [B7L] A Patriotic Fourth
	 [B7L] Darrow in Dr.Who
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 [B7L] Spin List
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Darrow in Dr.Who
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Darrow in Dr.Who
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past  - so off topic we should be kicked off by now.
	 Re: [B7L] Better late than never
	 Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
	 Re: [B7L] Re: potential Gareth Thomas sighting

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:12:18 +1000
From: "Michelle Wilcox" <publish@medeserv.com.au>
To: "blake's seven" <blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] aussies
Message-ID: <KDEPIHMKGDBAJMOIILJFKENJCAAA.publish@medeserv.com.au>
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>>>>>Melbournites all. <G>
>>>>>(except me )
>>>>>Min.xxx

I might be a bit late in on this, but I'm in Brisbane.

Michelle

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:19:21 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <e8.7305046.26a39cf9@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 7/13/00 9:56:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
rilliara@juno.com writes:

> And he and his "I don't know where I'm going, what direction I'm headed
>  in, or how long it will take" vacation plans are not going to win my
>  sympathy.  Neither will his withhold information for the good of others
>  (roughly equivilant to "Why would I have left the folder on your desk?  I
>  didn't know you were going to need it.  How was I supposed to know you
>  sent a memo? What standard operating procedure?  I was only gone for two
>  weeks.") story.

<chortle> In other words, behaving pretty much like your average 
programmer....You're right -- not much sympathy deserved!

Nina
(a tester at wits end with a bunch of programmers)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:27:10 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <006201bfef7d$9f665ee0$74ac4e0c@dshilling>
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Fiona said:
> 
> > >I think Sleer would pay by credit card, myself.
Or handfuls of fish bones.
> 
> > answer to American Express be "Federal Express"?)).
> 
> Murder on the Federal Express. Hm, I like the ring of that...
that's why they need the teleport system. "Federal Express.
When it absolutely, positively has to be there already."

-(Y)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:43:06 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: winspit quarry trip
Message-ID: <20000717004306.11289.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
>To: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>, <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
>Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: winspit quarry trip
>Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:45:41 +0930
>
>
>
>
> >>Let me guess Jessica, Melbourne?? <G>
> >>
> >>Min.xxx
> >
> >How did you guess that?
> >
> >Jessica
> >
>Nothing mysterious. Everyone else seemed to be, so I thought you might be 
>as
>well <G>
>
>Min.xxx

Oh, no magic or secret spy operations then, I must say that I'm a little 
disappointed. Oh well, good guess

Jessica
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:43:18 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] out-takes
Message-ID: <20000717064318.A28021@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, Jul 16, 2000 at 04:56:26PM +0000, Ika wrote:
> 
> what was real and what she dreamed. (The other week she dreamed
> Judith Proctor - who she's never met - came to live with us and
> looked exactly like Kasabi.)

I can assure you, she doesn't look like Kasabi.  (-8

-- 
 _--_|\	    | Kathryn Andersen		<kat@foobox.net>
/      \    | 		http://www.foobox.net/~kat
\_.--.*/    | 		http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat
      v	    | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |	-> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:32:41 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>, <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <000001bfefb6$0d37a4a0$3dc628c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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I'm starting to think I've wandered onto the off-topic list...

> Hmm, come to think of it I don't think the Australian dollar is doing too
> well either, although I'm sure our new GST will fix all of
> that (snigger).

That's what they thought in Canada... and they were right. It fixed the
economy, all right... fixed it good and proper.

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:35:15 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <000301bfefb6$0f79f380$3dc628c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>

> From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> > I take it we're not including the Napoleonic wars in that particular
> tally?
>
> It makes you wonder just how much of the world a war's got to cover before
> it counts as a world war.

I've heard some people refer to the wars of the 1630s/40s as a world war,
just cos there was some sort of conflict going on just about everywhere
there's records at that point.

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:30:52 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>, "Penny Dreadful" <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <000201bfefb6$0ec151e0$3dc628c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past


> At 11:55 PM 7/15/00 +0100, Nyder wrote:
>
> >did you know, there was an
> >American game show years back which had a quiz category entitled "Dead or
> >Canadian?" in which contestants had to guess whether a named individual
was
> >dead or Canadian.
>
> Did they specify which state of being was preferable?

I never actually witnessed this show myself, I just read about it in an
article somewhere. We'd better ask our American cousins :).

> Live From The Birthplace Of Robert Goulet,
>      Penny

Live from the Birthplace of Nobody In Particular [i.e., Croydon],

Fiona

Fiona Moore
St Cross College, Oxford
http://redrival.com/nyder/
Liberte - Egalite - Postmodernite

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:51:21 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>,
        "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <000101bfefb6$0df7e760$3dc628c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past


> It's far easier to chant "Two world
> >wars and one world cup" than to face the fact that Britain has fought
three
> >world wars and failed to win any of them.
> >
> >Neil
>
>
> Erm, I am terminally stupid, but..... I don't speak French, Dutch or
German
> as my first language.

Nor do I (though I do speak two of those as second and third languages), and
I fail to see what that's got to do with facing up to Britain's poor showing
in the past three world wars (not to mention world cups...). Come to that,
I'm not sure what it has to do with one's intelligence, either.

> Resident of an island not successfully invaded since Henry Tudor.

Unless you count the Americans.

Resident of the same island,

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:42:47 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <000201bfefc2$751b98e0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>

> It's far easier to chant "Two world
> >wars and one world cup" than to face the fact that Britain has fought
three
> >world wars and failed to win any of them.
> >
> >Neil
>
>
> Erm, I am terminally stupid, but..... I don't speak French, Dutch or
German
> as my first language.

Who said anything about losing?  Simply being on the winning side is not, in
my book, grounds for claiming victory.

Neil

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:34:53 +1000
From: "David Henderson" <David.Henderson@jcu.edu.au>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: winspit quarry trip (Oz members)
Message-ID: <005001bfefc1$7f70f8e0$6a3bdb89@lemon.jcu.edu.au>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Joanne <calliste@bigpond.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Date: Monday, 17 July 2000 12:19
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: winspit quarry trip


>>><How many Aussies are there on this list??>
>>>
>>><At least four. you, me, Joanne, Ross...>
>>
>>>Me. :-)
>>Me too.
>>Jessica
>
>And me as well - though I am mainly a lurker.
>Joanne (another one)


Well I might as well stick my hand up.

DaveH
(Wow, second post this year.  Already doubled last year's output)
(Actually it was about this time last year that I was hasslin Steve R at
Pages Bar.  Thanks again Steve.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:38:08 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <006a01bfefc1$779f04e0$3dc628c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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Me:
> > > answer to American Express be "Federal Express"?)).

Dana:

> that's why they need the teleport system. "Federal Express.
> When it absolutely, positively has to be there already."

"...or you'll be getting an unexpected visit from the Supreme Commander.
Same day delivery anywhere in the Federation; next day delivery to Auron,
Freedom City and Destiny. Cygnus Alphan deliveries may take anywhere from a
week to never."

Or, to paraphrase an old parody I heard once: "Federal Express. Don't Leave
Home."

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:29:51 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>,
        "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <006901bfefc1$76ee0460$3dc628c3@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Steve replied to something I said:

> If I remember correctly, the British Conservative party recently
"borrowed"
> their latest plans from Ontario.

I read an interesting article in the Economist last summer which pointed out
that New Labour's reform policies were effectively remodeling the British
parliamentary system along Canadian lines: a government-appointed House of
Lords/Senate, more power to the economic capital city, devolution for the
noisy countries/provinces off in the corner there, centre-leftist
governance, etc. Hm...

>The "Common Sense Revolution" was started
> here in Ontario by the ruling Progressive Conservatives in 1998.  Got them
> elected,

But it sounds so much more convincing coming from Mike Harris than from
William Hague (mind you, it would sound more convincing coming from a
*hamster* than from William Hague...)

> Guess they think Ontario is now similar to Britain.

What that says about the state of OHIP I shudder to think.

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:35:25 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <00ed01bfefc9$fc84cd90$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Neil wrote:

> From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
>
> > It's far easier to chant "Two world
> > >wars and one world cup" than to face the fact that Britain has fought
three
> > >world wars and failed to win any of them.
> > >
> > >Neil
> >
> >
> > Erm, I am terminally stupid, but..... I don't speak French, Dutch or
German
> > as my first language.
>
> Who said anything about losing?  Simply being on the winning side is not,
in
> my book, grounds for claiming victory.

Must... not... bite...

Well, I'm just not even going to open the subject of WW2 because, as you can
probably guess Neil, I don't agree with you, and I reckon you can work out
why.

WW1 is more debatable, and I think it's the peace that was really fucked up.

I just really want your first 'world war' clarified. I think you argued
cogently that the AWI was 'just one theatre in a global conflict', but your
response to my suggestion that perhaps you weren't giving the whole picture
of the wars with France was a bit of a cheat, as your use of the term 'world
war' seemed suddenly rather malleable!

From Linda Collee, 'Britons', p. 300-301 (Vintage, 1996): 'More than twice
as long as the First and Second World Wars added together, the wars against
Revolutionary and Napoleonic France were almost as geographically extensive
as far as British involvement was concerned, sweeping through Europe, into
Asia, Africa, North America, Latin America, and even precipitating sea
battles of the coast of Australia.'

I'm not going to claim that everything throughout the 19th century was just
super-duper in Britain, but I can't see how you can claim that Britain
emerged from these wars 'simply... on the winning side'. Taking a guess at
the reason why you claim WW2 was *not* a victory for Britain (economic and
political decline), it seems the reverse is true after 1815.


Una

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:21:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "rita d'orac" <orac@inorbit.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Nexus 2000
Message-ID: <382142663.963829293438.JavaMail.root@web303-mc.mail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A big apology to those of you who had trouble accessing the Nexus 2000 pics on my site - someone has now taught me how to do thumbnails and how to use Netscape friendly names and directories...

Easy to load pics are now up on

http://www.vilaworld.com

Sorry again...

rita d'orac

"If you think of this mouse as a space captain..."

http://www.vilaworld.com
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:24:24 +1000
From: Joanne <calliste@bigpond.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] aussies
Message-Id: <p04320401b598ab7215d2@[203.54.224.42]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
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>Darren wrote:
>
>>Me too ! From Melbourne (not the Florida one), Victoria, (not the Canada
>>one), Australia (accept no substitute).
>
>Melbournites all. <G>
>(except me )
>
>Min.xxx

Actually, I'm from Sydney.

Joanne
-- 
‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚

Because I love it.  It takes me to the stars, to the moon, on any 
journey I can imagine.  Any place but here ...

Cyrano de Bergerac

‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:56:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: sjk3@cornell.edu
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000717095526.16155A-100000@travelers.mail.cornell.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>> Live From The Birthplace Of Robert Goulet,
>>      Penny
> 
> Live from the Birthplace of Nobody In Particular [i.e., Croydon],
> 
> Fiona

     Wasn't Sarah Jane Smith from Croydon?

Sandra Kisner
sjk3@cornell.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:04:25 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: penberriss@yahoo.com, blakes7@hotmail.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette
Message-ID: <20000717150425.58626.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Jurgen and Wendy wrote:
> > Finally, I really enjoy the scene when she smiles at
> > Avon because she's
> > beating him at the game (What's the name of the
> > game?). This is Jenna at her
> > best, showing that she can beat Avon any time. :-)
>
>I think you're reading too much into it. Fact is, she
>doesn't have much to do in the story, so she doesn't
>do much.
>
>Wendy

Since when was reading too much into things a crime?  :) If it was then this 
list would never have any posting!  :)

Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:52:37 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Avatars
Message-ID: <20000717.102345.-98625.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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Minor spoilers for two books ahead.

I was looking through Garth Nix's "Seventh Tower: The Fall" and saw the
preview for the next book, "Castle."  I'm not going to explain the
background, just say that one character is getting dragged off to what I
think was called The Hall of Nightmares, which seems to be the castle
torture chambers.  I should also mention that magic using characters in
this castle each have a mystical Shadow (no relation [probably] to B7)
creature bound to them that helps heal them when they're wounded as well
as do other work.

OK, door to the Hall of Nightmares opens, reveiling a guy even the guards
are scared stiff of.  When he was described as a tall man with black hair
and very pale skin whose attitude to the guards was somewhat sardonic,
you can imagine who I thought of.  Then it mentioned an odd deformity he
had.  Apparently, about half of one side of his body had a major
accident.  His Shadow servant, unable to heal it, keeps him alive by
essentially filling in for that half of his body, giving him an
insectlike arm and other characteristics that keep him from getting
invited to parties much (as a consequence, he takes a certain
satisfaction in how his current job keeps everyone scared to death of
him).

So, kind of 'if Avon were Travis.'

And, with only the mildest of spoilers on the new Harry Potter book
(which still qualifies as a full fledged warning for those who haven't
read the book), Snape reminds me a lot more of Avon than he did before.

Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:23:42 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] A Patriotic Fourth
Message-ID: <20000717.102345.-98625.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Since I got perhaps a touch over cynical the other day (I can't help it.
Anything and everything to do with Clinton does that to me [it's not so
much his complete lack of ethics, it's people who shrug and go, "And
what's wrong with that?"]), I'm going to go the other way.

First off, special mention of one Revolutionary War leader (whose name I
should remember, but can't) who never won a single battle but happened to
win his particular war, a scenario I make particular mention of since it
might provide writers with some idea how to do a PGP that turns the
fourth season around (the guy did it by drawing the British into
relatively meaningless engagements further and further into deep swamp
land.  By the end, the British had conquored a great deal of swamp and
apparently brought many malaria bearing mosquitoes under their rule, not
to mention sunk a good many wagons in the mire [so I don't know how to
turn the fourth season into an ongoing battle that cost the Federation
more than it was worth and that relocated needed troops, I just got
started on the idea]).

Let's put in a special mention for old idealism (hey, we all know Blake
formed his political attitudes watching old films from the midtwentieth
century, especially Frank Capra - and he probably loved Jimmy Stewart).

And, although I think the U.K.'s flag is lovely (and I will admit, under
pressure, that ours does have a strong 18th century artistic sense that
is perhaps a bit much by modern standards, though it's nice to have a
flag that's easy to spot [half the point of The Star Spangled Banner]),
I'm very fond of the symbolism behind ours (side issue: political
implications in the various rebellions in B7 having no flag or symbol of
their own [other than Blake]. Did this reflect a lack of unity [all
groups apparently fighting under their own, already in use, local
standards], a feeling that they were only out to reform the system
instead of overthrow it, or some other factor [perhaps they asked the
Liberator's unknown fashion designer to come up with something but could
never quite bring themselves to fight under black leather studded with
silver stars]?).

Sniff, sniff.  Must change subject.  There's no way I can make some of
the family history stories that are bubbling up connected to B7 (the
advantage of doing extensive family history is the way you can tie almost
any bit of history, no matter how remote, into a family story).  I have a
really great one about my great-great grandfather's uncle [through his
mother's second marriage] that always comes up at this time of year.  But
I am getting teary eyed over it.  Poor Blake, he would have loved this
stuff (connection made! Bet you thought I couldn't do it!).

Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:57:07 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Darrow in Dr.Who
Message-ID: <002e01bff010$1e9cd1c0$b7089ad8@cgorman>
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Thought I'd share this.

For those who don't know, the BBC has come up with a pretty good Dr Who =
area on their website which has reviews of a number of episodes, one of =
which was Timelash.  You can see the review at =
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/timelash.shtml  There are =
two pics of Paul Darrow there, one on the main page the other on the =
analysis page.  Check out the hairdo in the first pic.

The review is quite good - but its been too long since I've seen this =
episode, so I don't know if its as bad as the early reviews make out.  =
Apparently Paul attempts to play his character as "an over the top =
pastiche of Olivier playing Shakespeare's King Richard", which is =
probably quite interesting to see!  He's also supposed to get the best =
dialogue in the storyline.

There is also a review of Doctor Who and the Silurians, Paul's other =
episode at http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/silurians.shtml =
but he's not mentioned much in that review.


Steve Dobson.


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thought I'd share this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>For those who don't know, the BBC has come up with a =
pretty=20
good Dr Who area on their website which has reviews of a number of =
episodes, one=20
of which was Timelash.&nbsp; You can see the review at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/timelash.shtml">http=
://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/timelash.shtml</A>&nbsp;=20
There are&nbsp;two&nbsp;pics of Paul Darrow there, one on the main page =
the=20
other on the analysis page.&nbsp; Check out the hairdo in the first=20
pic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The review is quite good - but its been too long =
since I've=20
seen this episode, so I don't know if its as bad as the early reviews =
make=20
out.&nbsp; Apparently Paul attempts to play his character as "an over =
the top=20
pastiche of Olivier playing Shakespeare's King Richard", which is =
probably quite=20
interesting to see!&nbsp; He's also supposed to get the best dialogue in =
the=20
storyline.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There is also a review of Doctor Who and the =
Silurians,=20
Paul's&nbsp;other episode at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/silurians.shtml">htt=
p://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/silurians.shtml</A>&nbsp;but=20
he's not mentioned much in that review.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Steve Dobson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:23:13 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <39734F11.5EFDAB98@sdc.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Nyder wrote:

> I'm starting to think I've wandered onto the off-topic list...

Hey, speaking of which, can anybody tell me what the address *is* for
the off-topic list?

-- 
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little 
like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:36:56 EDT
From: Tigerm1019@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Spin List
Message-ID: <be.6b0dadb.26a4ac48@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 07/17/2000 1:24:47 PM Central Daylight Time, ragan@sdc.org 
writes:

> Hey, speaking of which, can anybody tell me what the address *is* for
>  the off-topic list?

The joining instructions are on Judith's page at

http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/

under the link for mailing lists. :-)

Hope that helps!

Tiger M

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:45:57 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <021201bff01f$4fb41e80$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Betty:

> Hey, speaking of which, can anybody tell me what the address *is* for
> the off-topic list?

Details at: http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7/Fanclubs/MailNews.html#Spin


Una

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:51:32 -0600
From: Betty Ragan <ragan@sdc.org>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Darrow in Dr.Who
Message-ID: <397355B4.ED3752BA@sdc.org>
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Steve Dobson wrote:

> The review is quite good - but its been too long since I've seen this episode, so
> I don't know if its as bad as the early reviews make out.  Apparently Paul
> attempts to play his
> character as "an over the top pastiche of Olivier playing Shakespeare's King
> Richard", which is probably quite interesting to see!  He's also supposed to get
> the best dialogue in the storyline.

It was a pretty dire episode, IMHO, but then (again IMHO) very few of
the 6th Doctor episodes rise much above "dire."  Actually, I think the
best line was when the Doc called Darrow's character a "microcephalic
apostate."  Especially after I looked up the word "apostate."  See, PBS
*is* educational!

-- 
Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/
"Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little 
like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson
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Thought I'd share this.

For those who don't know, the BBC has come up with a pretty good Dr Who =
area on their website which has reviews of a number of episodes, one of =
which was Timelash.  You can see the review at =
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/timelash.shtml  There are =
two pics of Paul Darrow there, one on the main page the other on the =
analysis page.  Check out the hairdo in the first pic.

The review is quite good - but its been too long since I've seen this =
episode, so I don't know if its as bad as the early reviews make out.  =
Apparently Paul attempts to play his character as "an over the top =
pastiche of Olivier playing Shakespeare's King Richard", which is =
probably quite interesting to see!  He's also supposed to get the best =
dialogue in the storyline.

There is also a review of Doctor Who and the Silurians, Paul's other =
episode at http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/silurians.shtml =
but he's not mentioned much in that review.


Steve Dobson.


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thought I'd share this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>For those who don't know, the BBC has come up with a =
pretty=20
good Dr Who area on their website which has reviews of a number of =
episodes, one=20
of which was Timelash.&nbsp; You can see the review at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/timelash.shtml">http=
://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/timelash.shtml</A>&nbsp;=20
There are&nbsp;two&nbsp;pics of Paul Darrow there, one on the main page =
the=20
other on the analysis page.&nbsp; Check out the hairdo in the first=20
pic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The review is quite good - but its been too long =
since I've=20
seen this episode, so I don't know if its as bad as the early reviews =
make=20
out.&nbsp; Apparently Paul attempts to play his character as "an over =
the top=20
pastiche of Olivier playing Shakespeare's King Richard", which is =
probably quite=20
interesting to see!&nbsp; He's also supposed to get the best dialogue in =
the=20
storyline.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There is also a review of Doctor Who and the =
Silurians,=20
Paul's&nbsp;other episode at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/silurians.shtml">htt=
p://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/silurians.shtml</A>&nbsp;but=20
he's not mentioned much in that review.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Steve Dobson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:56:33 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <004301bff029$f3e59ce0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> Well, I'm just not even going to open the subject of WW2 because, as you
can
> probably guess Neil, I don't agree with you, and I reckon you can work out
> why.

A lot depends on how you classify 'winning'.  In a strictly military sense,
Britain simply can't field a large enough army to win a world war.  As far
as WW2 goes, I'd say the war in Europe was primarily won by the Soviet
Union, simply due to the sheer scale of the forces deployed on the eastern
front.  America helped.  Britain was there.  As for the war against Japan,
honours really ought to go to the USA, who took the war to Japan itself
(eventually), whilst Britain merely tied down (admittedly sizable) Japanese
forces in defence and reclamation of mainland asian colonies.  (And don't
forget the Chinese.)

All references to 'Britain' should also include the Canadian, Australian,
New Zealand, Indian etc contributions, which were considerable (to say the
least!).  The UK effort was hardly the UK on its own.

To play down Britain's overall impact on the outcome of the war is not, of
course, to denigrate the courage and sacrifice of individual service men and
women.  What gets up my nose is the tunnel-visioned mentality of union
jack-waving morons trying to claim that *England* won the Second World War.

(Much the same could be said of the First World War too.  The crucial
element in the Allied victory was the entry of the United States, seeing as
the French army was on the brink of mutiny and the British forces weren't up
to achieving much, even with colonial assistance.  I'm not happy with the
way all attention on that war seems to focus on Flanders, with a sidelong
glance at Lawrence in Palestine, when the largest army involved was the
Austro-Hungarian, the eastern front gets very short shrift, and the Italian
front is almost totally ignored even though tens of thousands of men died
there.  It's a very disproportionate perspective.)


> I just really want your first 'world war' clarified. I think you argued
> cogently that the AWI was 'just one theatre in a global conflict', but
your
> response to my suggestion that perhaps you weren't giving the whole
picture
> of the wars with France was a bit of a cheat, as your use of the term
'world
> war' seemed suddenly rather malleable!

Possibly because it is a bit malleable.  The 18th/19th Century wars with
France are not generally regarded as 'world wars' proper, though their scale
makes them useful for facetious argument.

Okay - Britain has fought *four* world wars, lost the first hands down, won
the second (with foreign help), and played a significant but limited role in
the winning of the other two.

Neil

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:49:03 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <023e01bff030$73dddec0$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Neil wrote:

> Okay - Britain has fought *four* world wars, lost the first hands down,
won
> the second (with foreign help), and played a significant but limited role
in
> the winning of the other two.

Not as good a soundbite as your original statement, Neil, but I think that's
something I could agree on.

Should we issue a communique?


Una

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jul 2000 14:00:06 -0700
From: "Bob Vinisky" <bobvin@europa.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Darrow in Dr.Who
Message-Id: <B598C1EB-17AC83@192.168.107.1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>There is also a review of Doctor Who and the Silurians,
Paul'sΚother episode at http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/episode_guide/
>silurians.shtmlΚbut he's not mentioned much in that review.

"Secretary Rontaine" is also in that episode (as the Project
Director). I believe he is also in one of the Dalek episodes (Genesis
Of The Daleks (?)). In that same ep is one of the Alta's from
Redemption (she's one of the freedom fighters).

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:28:48 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <005901bff1c5$92eb2ac0$a745063e@leanet>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> It's far easier to chant "Two world
>> >wars and one world cup" than to face the fact that Britain has fought
>three
>> >world wars and failed to win any of them.
>> >
>> >Neil
>>
>>
>> Erm, I am terminally stupid, but..... I don't speak French, Dutch or
>German
>> as my first language.
>
>Nor do I (though I do speak two of those as second and third languages),
and
>I fail to see what that's got to do with facing up to Britain's poor
showing
>in the past three world wars (not to mention world cups...). Come to that,
>I'm not sure what it has to do with one's intelligence, either.
>


OK on the world cups, but I'm going to disagree on the last two of the three
world wars. Not something for this list though, far to off topic.

Gnog

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:08:11 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past  - so off topic we should be kicked off by now.
Message-ID: <005a01bff1c5$93ccff40$a745063e@leanet>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I just said I wasn't going to discuss this, but what the...

<snip>All the stuff up to this point is relavant, but I hope this snip
remind people what was said.

>Okay - Britain has fought *four* world wars, lost the first hands down, won
>the second (with foreign help), and played a significant but limited role
in
>the winning of the other two.
>
>Neil


So lets go a little further with an analogy. Football (sorry Soccer) the
goal keeper does not score, but keeps a clean sheet. The midfield player who
runs down the left with energy and determination distracts TWO defenders.
The strikers put the opposition defence on edge, but the winning goal is
scored when a defender heads in from a corner by another defender. Who won
the match ?

The team. Its a team game, the team won, and all of the team members
contributed, and they can all claim the victory.

WWII.

I don't know what would have happened without the British presence in North
Africa, or with a significant part of the Luftwaffe not engaged over the
skys of Britain. Or what would have happened if the resistance in the
Balkans had just caved in, or the Americans had not send supplies over to
Europe and Russia before they actually joined the war. Or indeed hat would
have happened if the Germans had gone for the southern oil fields rather
than the political target of Moscow, or put Rommel on the Eastern front, or
the Japanese had solidly taken the "Western Pacific" instead of pearl
harbour. And these are just examples. It happened the way it happened, and
EVERYTHING that happened played some part in shaping the conflict.

It was an ALLIED victory, and ALL contributors, great and small, on the
front and back home WON the war. Thank you to everybody, even those people
who forget the parts played by the other team members. Yes, even those
people now working in Hollywood.

So.

Back to Blake. In order to judge the success of his high profile operation
during series 1 and 2, you need to know what influence he had on other
people. Even if he personally failed, his very presence on the team changed
things, and could allow something else to happen elsewhere in the galaxy.
Perhaps that was the plan. He didn't have enough resources to win, but he
was really irritating, with superior fire power and excellent early warning
system. He was (by luck) ahead in technology. And the Federation wanted rid
of him, for political reasons. You could even view the whole Star One debate
in this light. Blake didn't really want to destroy Star One. He wanted the
Federation to THINK he was going to destroy Star One. And come after him
with the whole fifth legion. Meanwhile with the Federation distracted by
Blake, a few planets declare independence, and the snow ball starts rolling.

And it worked. Throughout series 4 we hear of planets be brought back under
Federation control. Therefore they had chosen to be outside Federation
control. Blake (with the unwitting help of the Americ...oops Andomedans, who
came in right at the end) actually got what he wanted. Same it didn't last.

Gnog.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:04:32 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Better late than never
Message-ID: <20000717230432.27747.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>From: Pherber@aol.com
>Hey, it sounds good to me -- hope you're planning to finish it!

I did send a note asking people to ignore this, as it was sent by mistake 
<rolls eyes>, but it may not have got through to everyone - particularly 
Ika, who has a mailer daemon that keeps telling me my posts can't reach her 
because it takes more than 20 hops to do it (no, I don't understand, but 
someone will).

I can just hear Orac saying something like that, can't you?

Regards
Joanne
(back at work now)


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:41:20 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past
Message-ID: <004701bff043$683a75c0$351286d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Revolutions past


> From: Andrew Ellis <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
>
> > It's far easier to chant "Two world
> > >wars and one world cup" than to face the fact that Britain has fought
> three
> > >world wars and failed to win any of them.
> > >
> > >Neil
> >
> >
> > Erm, I am terminally stupid, but..... I don't speak French, Dutch or
> German
> > as my first language.
>
> Who said anything about losing?  Simply being on the winning side is not,
in
> my book, grounds for claiming victory.


Am I the only one who is totally failing to follow this conversation?

Fiona

Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:09:31 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: potential Gareth Thomas sighting
Message-ID: <20000717230931.67920.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>From: "Minnie" <minnie@picknowl.com.au>
>I did a bad bad thing!!  :(     I remembered up until 10.00pm and I had the
>video all set up and everything, then I took a phone call for a while then
>went to bed and forgot about it. Bugger bugger bugger. I remembered this
>morning when I got up. :((

<rolls eyes even more> I know exactly how you feel - I was up and in front 
of the television at the right time, only I happened to be trying to fix the 
tv channel settings on the video after a family member pressed the wrong 
button, and so I missed it. I suppose there's always next weekend - Rage's 
video playlists have been looking somewhat similar over the past few 
weeks...

Regards
Joanne


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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #204
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