From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #216 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/216 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 216 Today's Topics: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214 [ Helen Krummenacker ] [B7L] Re: Cally in Breakdown [ Helen Krummenacker ] Re: [B7L] Re: Avon, Tarrant, Guada P [ "Sally Manton" ] Re: [B7L] The charge against Blake ( [ Ika ] Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge aga [ Ika ] Re: [B7L] Orbit [ "Marian de Haan" ] Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge aga [ "Marian de Haan" ] Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge aga [ "Sally Manton" ] Re: [B7L] Blake model [ Judith Proctor To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214 Message-ID: <3983A97F.A8B@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Helen: > > >Okay, am I the *only* one who thinks that Avon did a pretty good > > befuddled, harmless strandee?< > > > > No, you're not. I too go against the majority view here. And his acting > > *did* convince the slave traders :-) > > As representative of the majority view, I must add, however, that I > don't think the slave traders *cared* what his story was or whether he > was telling the truth, just about how much he was likely to fetch on the > auction block. So, it comes down to, he should have worn the red leather pants for maximum "Capture me" appeal? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:11:40 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Cally in Breakdown Message-ID: <3983AAFB.4033@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The problem is, the only logical reason for Cally to have believed him > when he said he was OK when it was breaking down was if she had some kind > of telepathic input - he wasn't _feeling_ violent. > Try this one on for size: she can't read the minds of non-telepaths. Gan can't send, so Cally doesn't know what she's thinking. She could send soothing thoughts to him (didn't try), but only has the same hints as us; face ad voice, etc, to know how he's responding. OTOOH, she's bad at reading signals. I mean, the fluttering eyelashs... do you think Avon took his acting lessons from Gan? At least Cally knows Gan well enough to know he wasn't sounding quite himself. Whereas the slavers didn't know Avon at all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:08:40 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon, Tarrant, Guada Prime Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed We'll have to agree to disagree on this point, I think (yes, I think the relationship had changed. It was fairly mild and impersonal anyway, and during Warlord it went backwards. Fast. No way was Avon IMO even thinking of dying for Tarrant - more likely just thinking - after Stardrive, Orbit and Warlord - "oh s**t, not *again!!!") But I will agree that 'Blake' was one episode where *Tarrant* behaved beautifully almost all the way through, and Steven Pacey managed to keep the Dudley-Do-Rightism of the script under firm control. I like him better in Terminal, but I can admire him in 'Blake'. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 01:35:10 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Cally in Harvest Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/25/00 8:22:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time, smanton@hotmail.com writes: > Reminds me of Avon and Tarrant doing the same when Dayna's taking care > of Klegg in Powerplay. Maybe they just don't like to interrupt her > when she's playing with a new toy ... Yes, interrupting Dayna in fight mode could be viewed as potentially hazardous to one's health! Nina ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:36:22 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Red leather *again* (was: Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #214) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Helen wrote: Oh yes oh yes oh yes ... except that they went up in flames with the Liberator (pause to dab at eyes with a hankie). Tragic. Had it been me instead of Vila, I regret to say Orac would have been rather down on the list of 'stuff to save from a burning spaceship ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 05:51:37 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime (leaving Del out now) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed To change the subject a little ... and to see if anyone's got ideas on two of the biggest plot holes in the entire series IMHO ... 1] Avon's just gone through that wonderful piel about it being 'the day of the bounty humter'. He's teleported down, the ship's crashed, he's alone with Orac. WHY WHY WHY does he then send out a completely open distress signal? ('Tis picked up by the local law enforcement base, so it must be a generic code). Who's he trying to attract? (Given that there are bounty hunters everywhere, why does he want to attract anyone at all?) Not his crew - they don't have receivers. I know he's stressed - I know that he tends to get single-minded when he's Hunting Blakes - but I really can't see the excuse for this one. 2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent. But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly indicate she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he? Maybe that was the plot hole that Chris Boucher used to say was written into the script? Maybe he arranged for her to get a stun gun, not forseeing that *she* wasn't going to get the chance to shoot Blake before someone else did.) But his blank look when he runs in after Blake's shooting (*not* death, he ain't dead, so there) doesn't seem to me that indicative that he had realised she was untrustworthy. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:13:35 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake model Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 29 Jul, Harriet Monkhouse wrote: > Judith wrote: > >Ian says he's going to start work on Travis next week. > > May we enquire how far down the production line Jarriere is waiting? > I've asked Ian if he can do Jariere after Travis. I'm hoping we can find some good pictures to work from - it may not be that easy. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:50:35 GMT From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-Id: <200007300856.JAA00730@smtp.uk2net.com> Gnog: > Now there is a new angle for Orbit (no not the Avon - Villa scene). > Egrorian. He is an eccentric man, who regards himself as a genius, but > becomes banished on a lonely planet, with a hero worshipping adolescent for > company. (Insert stuff for other list here). How would you expect Egrorian > to behave ? Is his performance in Orbit really that unbelievable, or just > the product of prolonged isolation of that sort of man. > A new angle on your new angle: I always think some of Avon's weird laughter and general behaviour around Egrorian comes from recognizing something of himself in E. It's a kind of "road not taken" thing. If Avon had made it to XK-72, would he have ended up like a (better looking) version of Egrorian? Discuss. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:14:11 GMT From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] The charge against Blake (was Orbit) Message-Id: <200007300920.KAA00917@smtp.uk2net.com> Sally on the child-abuse charges: > > >I mean, they *did* it to discredit him, then, when he's becoming a > galaxy-wide hero, they never think to use the most potent weapon in their > armoury against him (I might add that I find *this* plot hole a little > annoying, since it says so much about the Powers-That-Be's intelligence).< > Marian: > Maybe they deduced that the Federation's reputation had now become so bad > that it lead to everyone automatically being prepared to believe that Blake > had been framed. In those circumstances there would be little use in going > through with it. But I agree that it is a gaping and irritating plot-hole. > I think there's also a difference between "Oh, that Blake that recanted his revolutionary beliefs - did you know he's just been sent to Cygnus Alpha for child abuse and will never be heard of again" (which could work as an end-of- story for the Freedom Party) and "Oh, that Blake who was sent to Cygnus Alpha for child abuse has busted out, gathered a crew of criminals and alien rebels and is going round smashing the apparatus of the Federation". Once Blake is visibly an active revolutionary again, the child-abuse charges are less likely to work to destroy his reputation, because the Federation's motives for framing him are far more obvious. Remember before he busted out of the London no-one outside the Administration could have known he'd gone political again. Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:26:51 GMT From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge against Blake) Message-Id: <200007300932.KAA00981@smtp.uk2net.com> Sally on Blake's choice of crew: > wouldn't he better off going and searching > for other rebels, who (having a less-than-glowing view of Federation > justice) would be more likely to give his story of a frame-up credit than > ordinary criminals? > > Can't help feeling that had he turned up on, say, Avalon's door with an open > invitation, there would have been enough real rebels dazzled (like My > Darling) by this great big beautiful toy - err, I mean struck by the > possibilities of this wonderful weapon against oppression - to fill the > spots on the flight deck quite satisfactorily. > Has Blake ever met Avalon? As far as I remember Jenna was the only one who knew her and set up the contact between them. Which goes back to the question of whether Jenna was "just" a smuggler or whether she was a political from the beginning... Random thought from me is that I think Blake might well have become unbearable very quickly if he was surrounded by real rebels. He has (imho) a bit of a desire to convert (orate at length about his Cause) which means he might well be happier with non-politicals around him who he can convert. Admittedly, it's a bit of a small scale, but it could be some sort of attempt to bring his message to The Masses. Or you could just cite the Convenient Mind-Wipe (Blake can't remember where any of the rebels live). Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:43:36 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit Message-ID: <000e01bffa0a$a21d2820$60ef72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ika wrote: >A new angle on your new angle: I always think some of Avon's weird laughter and general behaviour around Egrorian comes from recognizing something of himself in E. It's a kind of "road not taken" thing.< That would require a lot of self-awareness from Avon. Basically, it depends on his self-image. Does Avon believe in his own protrayal of a totally ruthless and callous bastard or is he aware, deep down, that he can never live up to that image and is he simply hoping that nobody else will see through him? [Which Blake does two minutes after meeting him while the others, except for Jenna, don't take much longer. :-)] >If Avon had made it to XK-72, would he have ended up like a (better looking) version of Egrorian? Discuss.< Heaven forbid! :-) Serious, I can't see that ever happen. But I don't subscribe to the Avon-is-insane-in-S4 theory. In my view he stays perfectly rational, even when he's shooting Blake . Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:06:52 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge against Blake) Message-ID: <001501bffa0d$e404c560$60ef72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ika asked: >Has Blake ever met Avalon? As far as I remember Jenna was the only one who knew her and set up the contact between them.< That's right. Good point. >Which goes back to the question of whether Jenna was "just" a smuggler or whether she was a political from the beginning...< I think she was just a (very successful) smuggler, selling arms to the rebels for a profit. Clearly she has a conscience, in that she refuses to deal in drugs (Shadow), but she never gives the impression of sharing Blake's political views. IMHO she's following Blake for his beautiful brown eyes [or something like that :-)], not because she believes in his Cause. >Random thought from me is that I think Blake might well have become unbearable very quickly if he was surrounded by real rebels. He has (imho) a bit of a desire to convert (orate at length about his Cause) which means he might well be happier with non-politicals around him who he can convert. Admittedly, it's a bit of a small scale, but it could be some sort of attempt to bring his message to The Masses.< And his lack of success might well discourage him from any larger scale attempts. Let's face it, the only one vaguely responsive is Gan. Cally doesn't count as she's already a freedom fighter. Jenna just seems interested in getting past his Noble Streak. :-) Vila is merely staying because he hasn't got anywhere else to go. And Avon has his own agenda. >Or you could just cite the Convenient Mind-Wipe (Blake can't remember where any of the rebels live).< If he ever knew that. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:31:55 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avalon (was The charge against Blake) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ika wrote: Has Blake ever met Avalon? As far as I remember Jenna was the only one who knew her and set up the contact between them.> Jenna had met her, yes (and presumably could've also acted as go-between if an earlier meeting was needed). I'd assume that the approach we *do* see in Project Avalon came from Avalon rather than Blake, since she needed transport, which would mean that Jenna *was* only needed to verify that it was Avalon. But after all, she's the original generic rebel-when-one-needs-one in fanfic, so she can stand in for the rest here ... Blake seems to be regaining his memory *very* quickly through this period (AKA as "the mind-wipe was a lovely authorial idea, but is now a bloody nuisance, get rid of it") and knows a fair bit about the Saurian Major massacre that presumably is *not* on the official records. Yes, it might be common rumour (though none of the rest have heard of it) but given that he went straight from mind-wipe to prison to the London to the Liberator, he must be talking to *someone*. As I've said before, the time line on the early episodes is a bitch … but maybe that's part of what Blake was doing in that time they were following the London. They all three had a lot of time to fill in between [a] working out how to get soap and clean undies and something-almost-completely-unlike-food-as-they-know-it of the computers without Zen, and [b] unaccountably always overlooking the doors to the treasure and wardrobe rooms. He could have been building up his first few contacts … and learning all he can about Saurian Major and Centero. Nice idea (I'd listen to him, but more for the sound than the sense) but he tends IMO to keep the lectures for where they have at least a theoretical chance of doing any good (Ro, Horizon, for instance). He's as fond of the sound of his own voice as the next man, (the next man being either Avon or Vila, of course) but not of talking to the equivalent of a brick wall. That tends to make him tetchy and abrupt. After the speech in Spacefall, he tends to mostly stick with Avon either to the practicalities, or the shifting games of verbal and intellectual challenge, possibly recognising that trying to explain the whys and wherefores isn’t going to make a lot of difference. Avon is only interested in the why-nots and the oh-all-right-then-hows. And I don't think he'd inflict it on Vila :-) who'd probably fall asleep faster than I would. He has a slight tendency to lecture Jenna, but not about politics (history of space vehicles, yes, but it's a Holmes episode). My (again uncanonical) view is that he, Cally and Gan may have talked politics sometimes. The reasons for and his feelings about whatever it is they're doing at any given time do colour his speech (Project Avalon being a perfect example, or the beginning of Pressure Point). ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:29:26 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: [B7L] Zenith Message-ID: <3983F576.BC9FF3D8@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My copy of Zenith came yesterday, and all I can say is, it's beautiful. Better than the official stuff I've seen made during the original run of the show; I may have to get another copy to disassemble for pictures to hang on the wall. And I'm extremely envious of Judith getting to stand on a mock-up of the flight deck. My thanks to everybody who participated in creating Zenith. I do hope there will be another issue. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 11:39:17 +-100 From: Louise Rutter To: 'B7 Lysator' Subject: RE: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime (leaving Del out now) Message-ID: <01BFFA1A.CD372460@host62-6-85-198.btinternet.com> Sally wrote: >1] Avon's just gone through that wonderful piel about it being 'the day of >the bounty humter'. He's teleported down, the ship's crashed, he's alone >with Orac. WHY WHY WHY does he then send out a completely open >distress signal? ('Tis picked up by the local law enforcement base, so it >must be a generic code). Who's he trying to attract? (Given that there are >bounty hunters everywhere, why does he want to attract anyone at all?) He wants to attract exactly the people he did attract - the bounty hunters. Nobody on GP is going to help stranded spacefarers out of the goodness of their heart, and Avon isn't in the mood for a hike through a large plantation. The only way to get transport is to steal it from somebody else, so that's what he does. Soolin sees it - hence her line about being the bait in the trap he set. >2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent. >But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly >in dicate she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he? Never have managed to get my head around why they trusted Arlen after she showed willing to sell Blake. Anyone?? louise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:17:17 EDT From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime Message-ID: <50.8ccbcde.26b576cd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louise wrote: > He wants to attract exactly the people he did attract - the bounty hunters. > Nobody on GP is going to help stranded spacefarers out of the goodness of > their heart, and Avon isn't in the mood for a hike through a large > plantation. The only way to get transport is to steal it from somebody > else, so that's what he does. > Soolin sees it - hence her line about being the bait in the trap he set. Exactly. Avon knows it is a dangerous place and he wants to strengthen his position--as in get transportation so he's mobile--as soon as possible. Pretending to be in distress is the best way to quickly attract lowlifes with a flyer. They'll come with the assumption that they are going to find easy pickings. Which puts Avon at an advantage. It's a clever strategy. > >2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent. > >But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly >in > dicate she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he? > > Never have managed to get my head around why they trusted Arlen after she > showed willing to sell Blake. Anyone?? Nope. But it's consistent with what might have made Blake willing to trust Tarrant. For the record this isn't *Deva's* testing program. This is Blake's testing program. And he would have been the one to set the parameters. So if Arlen's willingness to sell out Blake is the way you pass the test, one has to ask why does *Blake* take that to be a signal of trust? Moving on to Tarrant. When Blake and Tarrant arrive in Deva's office, Blake takes Tarrant's gun and pretends to be about to turn him in for the bounty. IOW, Tarrant is apparently still considered to be untrustworthy at that point. After Tarrant suicidally breaks free, we get this: ARLEN: Do you want him killed?! BLAKE: No, of course not! When he knows as much about this as you do now, he'll join us, like you did. ARLEN: He passed the test, then. BLAKE: I'm satisfied. So somewhere between entering Deva's office and exiting Deva's office Tarrant has passed the test. And what did he do in between? He tried to betray Blake to Deva: TARRANT: [to Deva] Doesn't it occur to you to wonder where he's got all this information from? DEVA: Give the man credit for knowing his trade. TARRANT: Oh, surely you're not that naive. BLAKE: You're wasting your breath, Tarrant. Tarrant is about to reveal to Deva that Blake is Blake (with a bounty of his own on his head). Blake tells him he's wasting his breath (because Deva already knows this). They are then distracted by the arrival of Avon's flyer and Tarrant makes his quick exit. Shortly after that Blake tells us that Tarrant passed the test. Now I'd like to think that haring off to protect his shipmates was what gave Tarrant a passing grade, but the earlier scene with Arlen suggests that it was betraying Blake that won him that honor. I think it's further evidence that Blake is way stressed out in BLAKE. The testing program seems to be ill conceived and dangerous. Allowing Tarrant to escape is a terrible oversight. Blake's answers to Avon's questions are imprecise and misleading. Blake isn't even close to being Mr. Reliable. It's why PGPs where Avon and/or Avon's crew are willing to follow Blake make me scratch my head. Avon and his crew are survivors. Their evaluation of Blake's leadership on Gauda Prime has to be a negative one. Blake has let a spy onto his base. His allowing Tarrant to break free has gotten Klyn and the white-coated technician (two of Blake's followers) injured or killed. Not to mention what happens to Blake himself. Blake's security system was flawed in that an entire flock of Feds were able to penetrate his base. This is not a track record that would inspire the Scorpio crew to sign on the dotted line. Carol Mc > > louise > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:38:36 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Gan-zilla Message-ID: <00c801bffa35$c8bfffe0$3c694e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton, responding to Trish & Ellyne: > Ellyne: > <[if the Federation could do that kind of conditioning, Blake would have > been given one]).> > > and Trish: > > > > But 'twould have brought the series itself to a screaming great halt round > about - err - the start :-) In (I think) Michael Pennington's wonderful book about playing Hamlet, I read about a backstage game at the RSC: coming up with lines that would bring a play to a screaming halt ("Falstaff, you are heartily welcome at our coronation!" "Thank you, Professor Higgins, I find that after two lessons I am able to speak perfectly.") Perhaps sometime around The Web, the crew sat Blake down, kept filling his glass with Real Ale, encouraged him to tell war stories... and, when he woke up the next morning, he discovered that they all divided up the Treasure Room and buggered off. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:51:50 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake model Message-ID: <00ca01bffa35$d139cca0$3c694e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacqueline & Judith: > > > >Travis 2, I believe. > > Yesss!!!! Yesss!!!! Yesss!!!! Want one!!!! Want one!!!! Want one...... How about reversible, with TI on the front TII on the back? -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 15:51:32 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Parsec {was Orbit} Message-ID: <01a501bffa36$0a121b40$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary said - >I'm not sure about the one second on arc at that distance, but the correct >'yardstick' for a parsec is 3.26 light years. I suppose if an ear of corn >were that far away it would not subtend an angle that large. I'm sure Judith was right about the definition of a parsec. I mean that's why it's par-sec parallax-second It works no matter how big or small the observed thing is (as long as it is big enough to see) The point is that it is the observer that is moving - ie us, as the earth moves around the sun, so the angle at which we observe the star changes, so it seems to hop about against the background of further-away stars and the amount it hops about tells us how far away it is. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:04:28 GMT From: Ika To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fwd: [B7L] Tachyons Message-Id: <200007301510.QAA03298@smtp.uk2net.com> Ellyne: > Thoughts on the Tachyon Funnel: > > So the name didn't make sense. Maybe Egrorian was one of those > scientists who was messing in the lab one day, got a weird effect, even > learned how to do something with it, but never actually managed a sound > theory to explain the phenomena. Instead, he just spouted a lot of > technobabble to try and cover. > > So it was pretty bad technobabble. What did we expect from him? > LOL! This is the best theory I've heard yet, and my enjoyment of Orbit can now proceed undistracted by annoyance from my GCSE-level physics (plus reading A Brief History of Time like 10 years ago). Love, Ika ---------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using http://uk2.net NEWS - CHEAPEST DEDICATED SERVERS IN THE WORLD - 29/month UK's FREE Domains, FREE Dialup, FREE Webdesign, FREE email ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 10:58:16 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake model Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 29 Jul, Sally Manton wrote: > > Have we got enough takers for a Vila yet? (and I'm with Harriet on the > Jarriere too, surprise surprise). I haven't counted the requests recently, but I think he was doing pretty well. We're still getting more Avon orders in, so that bodes well for later figures, though obviously it will depend on how well Blake and Travis go. I got Kelvin an initial five Blakes to paint and I think four of them already have homes to go to as soon as they're done. He had a busy session last night on both Avon and Blake, cleaning flash, inserting pins to hold the arms properly and more pins to stand them securely on the bases. (You can just glue them, but pinning makes for a much stronger join.) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:26:11 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] quarry trip Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII We had a great day at Winspit. Not only did the sun shine gloriously (which makes drying wet clothes much simpler) we ran into a group of Dr Who fans visiting the planet Skaro, so we loaned them some spare supersoakers and then shot them from ambush . It was great to see some new faces too - we had several fans with us who hadn't been to the quarry before. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 09:57:51 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime (leaving Del out now) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 30 Jul, Sally Manton wrote: > To change the subject a little ... and to see if anyone's got ideas on two > of the biggest plot holes in the entire series IMHO ... > > 1] Avon's just gone through that wonderful piel about it being 'the day of > the bounty humter'. He's teleported down, the ship's crashed, he's alone > with Orac. WHY WHY WHY does he then send out a completely open distress > signal? ('Tis picked up by the local law enforcement base, so it must be a > generic code). Who's he trying to attract? (Given that there are bounty > hunters everywhere, why does he want to attract anyone at all?) Not his crew > - they don't have receivers. > > I know he's stressed - I know that he tends to get single-minded when he's > Hunting Blakes - but I really can't see the excuse for this one. I assumed he was trying to attract any one he could with the intent of jumping them and stealing their ship. > > 2] Deva. I like Deva, and I do want to think he's reasonably intelligent. > But for goodness sake, Arlen offers to sell *Blake* to him, clearly indicate > she cannot be trusted, and he does ... nothing?!?!? Or does he? Maybe that > was the plot hole that Chris Boucher used to say was written into the > script? Maybe he arranged for her to get a stun gun, not forseeing that > *she* wasn't going to get the chance to shoot Blake before someone else > did.) > > But his blank look when he runs in after Blake's shooting (*not* death, he > ain't dead, so there) doesn't seem to me that indicative that he had > realised she was untrustworthy. I think this was part of the test. Arlen passes because her reason (supposed) for selling Blake is that he has obviously betrayed the revolution by turning bounty hunter. She does *not* offer to trade in any fellow rebels and thus passes the test again. (Tarrant also refused to say anything that would help Blake find the rest of his crew - he too passed this part of the test. He also considered Blake to have sold out and had no qualms about saying so.) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:19:38 -0700 From: Steve Rogerson To: Lysator , Freedom City , B7 Egroups , B-7 egroups , Couro Prido , projectavalon@egroups.com Subject: [B7L] Redemption Message-ID: <3984E239.200FF222@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, just a reminder for anyone thinking of booking for Redemption but hasn't yet done so, the discount for early bookers runs out in one month's time. If you book before the end of August, the adult weekend rate is 40 pound. From 1 September it is 45 pound. For those who don't know, Redemption is a Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention due to run from 23 to 25 February 2001 in Ashford, Kent, UK. It is a fan run convention with all profits to charity (split evenly between the National Asthma Campaign and The Woodland Trust). The main theme of the event will be fan-run discussions, panels, debates and workshops. There will also be games, quizzes and competitions, Friday and Saturday night discos, dealers room and fancy dress. There will be some guests to complement the programme - Gareth Thomas (Blake in Blake's 7), Ron Thornton (cofounder of B5 special effects firm Foundation Imaging and a model builder for Blake's 7), Andy Lane (author of the Baylon Files and the backs of 350 B5 trading cards), David Walsh (Servalan impersonator) and Michael Sheard (section leader Klegg in B7 among many TV appearances). The Klingons will be back and there will be a special telepath arc. For more info, we have a web page at http://www.smof.com/redemption or you can email us at redemptioninfo@smof.com, or send an SSAE to Lesley Rhodes, 26 Kings Meadow View, Wetherby, LS22 7FX, UK. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "In my world, there are people in chains and you can ride them like ponies" The alternative Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:32:49 +0100 From: "Pat Sumner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime Message-ID: <009401bffa5d$f024a860$f581883e@s5e8f3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sent: 30 July 2000 13:17 > Blake's security system was > flawed in that an entire flock of Feds were able to penetrate his base. This > is not a track record that would inspire the Scorpio crew to sign on the > dotted line. My opinion is that the Federation guards were not there to capture Blake and his 'nest of rebels', but were the security personnel that Klyn requested. The base is a Federation run base, set up to allow Fed personnel to pretend to be rebels, to think like them, the better to infiltrate or catch the real thing. In essence, they are roleplaying. Blake (assuming he's the original) has been conditioned to work for the Federation instead of against. The series has established that people can be conditioned (some more easily than others, like Dayna in 'Animals'), and since Blake's mind has been tampered with before, it could more easily be adjusted again. Arlen is working under the impression that the rebels are the genuine article. I think that the base could have been set up under maximum security, probably while Servalan was President. Her replacement doesn't know about it, since Servalan presumably didn't leave an envelope marked 'Secret plans made by President Servalan. Do not open unless she is deposed or killed' on her desk. Servalan's motivation in 'Warlord' is clearer, I think. She arranged for the 'rebel alliance' set up by Avon to fail, and arranged for Zukan to bomb the base, and leave everyone there dead. She could have arranged for the entire base, and everyone inside, to be completely destroyed, as soon as Zukan's ship touched down. But that would have also meant the destruction of Orac and the Teleport. Since Avon knows that one of the alliance will betray him to the Federation, he will have no other choice but to abandon base. And where else would Avon go? Servalan knows that Avon has risked everything to find Blake in the past. And Servalan knows exactly where Blake is. Remember that all that is my opinion only, and I'm sitting here waiting for the plasma bolts of disagreement to hit. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 16:36:13 EDT From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/30/2000 2:37:54 PM Central Daylight Time, pat@freedomcity.fsnet.co.uk writes: > My opinion is that the Federation guards were not there to capture > Blake and his 'nest of rebels', but were the security personnel that > Klyn requested. > > The base is a Federation run base, set up to allow Fed personnel to > pretend to be rebels, to think like them, the better to infiltrate or > catch the real thing. In essence, they are roleplaying. This is a very interesting theory, and not one I'd have thought of, Pat. :-) > Blake (assuming he's the original) has been conditioned to work for > the Federation instead of against. The series has established that > people can be conditioned (some more easily than others, like Dayna in > 'Animals'), and since Blake's mind has been tampered with before, it > could more easily be adjusted again. Very plausible, and we don't know what happened to him between "Star One" and "Blake." It's very possible he was captured, and who better to attract other rebels? He spent four years following the party line back on Earth before he regained his memory the first time; I could believe that he could be conditioned again, poor guy. :-( Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:42:39 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Guada Prime Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Pat wrote: Nothing wrong with it as a theory I guess (or fanfic cliche - I've read several of these, usually blatantly written to let My Darling off the hook) but it makes nonsense of the entire plot, doesn't it? If he's working for the Federation, why on earth does he test people/talk to Deva about a base and an army, etc etc? As for the base being easily infiltrated ... yes it was, once Arlen got her deceitful little foot in the door, but again (Boucher/Nation's favourite motif) we don't know how long Blake and Deva had been running their operation successfully. I assume from what Deva says that it's been for a fair while - months, maybe even over a year (yes, that's uncanonical, but I also like to *try* and tie what happened to Blake to Rumours, and again, there's no proof to gainsay it). Also, *is* this Blake's base? Since Klyn appears to be one of the local law-enforcement wannabes (and Deva is acting as one, being sent information in that role) I think not. Blake's too distrustful to take people being tested *there* (and obviously Arlen hasn't yet been told this bit - he still This is a local 'proto-police' base. What Blake had back at the real base he mentions to Deva we have no idea. Thirdly, the Scorpio crew may have no choice. Avon has Orac stashed away and if Avon decided to stay with Blake (which, even if *he* thought the whole thing was stupid, he probably would, going on his track record), then the crew have the clothes they stand up in ... and that's it. Yes, they could try and steal another ship and get off-planet and hope for another rabbit-out-of-hat like Dorian to show up ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:26:32 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Parsec {was Orbit} Message-ID: <017401bffa8e$84701060$5e139ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary wrote : > I'm not sure about the one second on arc at that distance, but the correct > 'yardstick' for a parsec is 3.26 light years. I suppose if an ear of corn > were that far away it would not subtend an angle that large. The crowd does > note your exposure of Han Solo's use being incorrect. However, I must add > that Star Wars had the best usage of the jump to hyperspace being > *dangerous* and *time-consuming*. In series like B7 and Doctor Who and the > Star Trek > series' they just simply get the order to go warp whatever and basically > just slam the gas and go... At least Han explains it takes time for the > computer to get it right and it's just simply not a safe, free thing. Of > course, they gloss over it in later movies anyway, just like everybody else > does. Being a sad Trekker, I have to jump to the defense of Star Trek's warp drive systems, with the use of the trusty technical manual. Trek had the benefit of a computer system with enough storage space to store information on all major stars, nebulae, dust clouds and other stable nautural objects. Newly discovered objects were catalogued and their information transmitted by subspace radio to all Federation vessels. Using this information, the ship's computer would automatically determine the optimal flight path. With its faster than light processing elements, the computational time was minimal. The helm/conn does only need to give the desired destination and speed, but the computer has the power and speed to limit the dangers of warp travel. This is a bit different to the Liberator's systems, which insisted on human intervention when anything strange occurred during the flight, but the same process as the Millennium Falcon, which had a navigational computer to calculate the flight path. That too would need a database of all celestial objects. Steve Dobson. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #216 **************************************