From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #240 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/240 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 240 Today's Topics: [B7L] Re: errors [ Helen Krummenacker ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Dana Shilling" ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Betty Ragan ] [B7L] Space Travel [ "Dana Shilling" ] Re: [B7L] Space Travel [ Betty Ragan ] [B7L] info request [ "Minnie" ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:56:10 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: errors Message-ID: <39A715AA.6C2@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > OK, so, except for the Star One glitches (which we know were due to the > Andromedans, right?), how come nobody on B7 ever seems to make stupid > computer mistakes? Can you imagine Blake accidentally e-mailing > Servalan with the plans for his next raid? Well, maybe not, but it's > easy to imagine Vila hitting the wrong button and doing something like > that. And the look on Avon's face would be priceless... > Hmmm... I think I know why Servalan always seemed to be able to manipulate Our Heroes so well. She gathered her information through gossip with Vila on the HotBabes chat site. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:45:34 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <008f01c00f0b$975a2c60$3d9e4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally asks: > So why *do* you think Blake (and Vila - Anna we can leave out of thee > question, since we know almost *nothing* of Anna) gets the nod for that > veeerrry selective brand of loyalty? Or to put it another way, what does > Avon find actually attractive in other people (as apart from pragmatically > useful or tolerable-if-one-has-to) that they interest him to the point of > *thinking* about them, let alone making a commitment of this nature > (something he *knows* is a mistake with Blake, at the very least)? I think Avon is convinced that the Universe really has it in for him-- and if the car's gonna crash, why not hit the accelerator? That's why he's somewhat drawn to Servalan, but much more so to Blake, who can do much more damage to him. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:47:54 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:ORAC? Message-ID: <009001c00f0b$9940edc0$3d9e4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Helen Krummenacker To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:39 PM Subject: [B7L] Re:ORAC? > > Orac, of course, was really Wesley Crusher trapped in a box until such > > time as Q thought he deserved to be let out again. > > > > Ellynne > > No, couldn't be. Wesley was never as cool as ORAC. Wesley Crusher = Federation official in charge of stamping out Evangelical religion? -(Y) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:53:34 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <009101c00f0b$9f6001a0$3d9e4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral said: > > Mind you, cutting straight to the bridge Flight deck! Flight deck! >is a bit like dealing from the > bottom of the deck, isn't it? I only got as far as: > > We found it in a bunker on Aristo... > > before getting hung up on a four-letter rhyme for Orac. What about the young lady from Warwick who lived in a castle historwick? -(Y) Re American Pie: something about Built by Ensor, Late of Mensa, But his batt'ries ran dry ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:02:57 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 II? Message-ID: <009201c00f0b$a0c07c00$3d9e4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Variously Mistral and Joanne: > > Er, he's in "talks", apparently. One of the HP sites around the 'net > > thoughtfully gives a picture of him as the Sherrif of Nottingham so you can > > compare him with your mental image of the character. Not to mention comparing him with PD as the Sherriff of Nottingham. > > I can be every bit as restrained about Alan Rickman as Una is about > John Cusack. (And with more to be restrained about ;-) I believe it was Susie Wright who suggested casting Kevin Spacey as Avon, whereas I believe he is a predestinate Travis. I wouldn't suggest it as a serious casting choice, but I'd love to see Keanu Reeves' audition tape in the Travis II costume. (Probably with the sound turned off.) There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that James Spader should play Avon. attempting to join the > > sections of the joint Mistral/Dana filkIt's interesting to note that Joanne's is POV Blake and mine is (you're dying of surprise here, right?). Could make a nice duet for the Redemption cabaret though. > (Thinking about Avon interviewing potential flatmates. Ouch.) I think I saw that movie already--it's called "Shallow Grave." -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:09:51 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <009301c00f0b$a294ede0$3d9e4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Betty said: Can you imagine Blake accidentally e-mailing > Servalan with the plans for his next raid? Well, maybe not, but it's > easy to imagine Vila hitting the wrong button and doing something like > that. And the look on Avon's face would be priceless... "Oh,never mind, Vila, should she actually be foolish enough to carry out any idea of BLAKE's inevitable victory will be ours." Seriously, though, the whole series shows one example after another of touching faith in various pieces of technology that work about as well as a Windows 3000 alpha release. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:11:34 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <009401c00f0b$a8927000$3d9e4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Betty said: > > True enough, but I somehow can't see the Federation bothering... (with exploration of Magellanic Clouds out of sheer Blakean curiosity) There's be a huge !@##$%^ Coca-Cola logo on the spaceship, and Geraldo Rivera will broadcast the landing. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:32:51 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Pageantry Message-ID: <000501c00f0e$52f01b40$3fae4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Wolfram & Hart letterhead] Dear Ms. Dreadful: As Labor Day, traditional time for the Mr. Federation pageant, approaches, and with reference to your allusion to the "swimsuit competition" as determinative of Travis preference: Writing on behalf of my client, the Mr. Federation pageant, I must ask you to cease and desist. Such references demean the pageant by implying that it is a mere "beauty contest"-- what do you think, that's a bunch of decorative staff officers up there? Selection depends on performance in many factors, such as "Death of a Friend," "Leatherwear," "Lazeron Tag," and "I'll Get You Blake Realness." Anyway, they're just interested in the college scholarships. Tune in to this year's vidcast--the Talent competition is a doozy. D. Shilling, Esq. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:35:36 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Let a Thousand Blakes Bloom Message-ID: <001701c00f0e$b610ffa0$3fae4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Then again, the BBC could hire Alan Rickman to play both Blake AND Avon, and save money by using CGI effects to have him argue with HIMSELF. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:41:46 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39A7589A.7A479209@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana Shilling wrote: > > Mind you, cutting straight to the bridge > Flight deck! Flight deck! I thought most people use a Bicycle deck to play bridge? Ob B7: If Gan were a playing card, which one would he be? > Re American Pie: something about > Built by Ensor, > Late of Mensa, > But his batt'ries ran dry ? LOL! Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:39:03 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Pageantry Message-Id: <4.1.20000826012617.009422a0@mail.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:32 PM 8/25/00 -0400, Dana Shilling wrote: >Writing on behalf of my client, the Mr. Federation pageant, >I must ask you to cease and desist. Such references demean >the pageant by implying that it is a mere "beauty contest"-- >what do you think, that's a bunch of decorative staff officers >up there? No, no, never. I admire their Talent above all else. And it just so happens I consider the ability to wear a tiny swimsuit well to be a Talent right up there on a par with rocket surgery. >Selection depends on performance in many factors, >such as "Death of a Friend," "Leatherwear," >"Lazeron Tag," and "I'll Get You Blake Realness." What about "Writhing Around In A Quarry" and "Pissing Off Servalan"? --Penny "A Good Start" Dreadful -- "It's still me, Mulder." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:35:55 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: Subject: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) Message-ID: <01a901c00f30$6a9b8dc0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit back from lovely hols, interested to read the recasting threads some people don't like to talk about recasting because it seems to violate the integrity of the show. I can see their point in a way, but I think it's interesting because it makes you appreciate the ways the same character seems so different to different fans For that reason I think it is most interesting to think of recasting against superficial resemblance and style. It makes you be a bit more creative, and it brings out deeper aspects of the character as you see it. That's why I like the Coltrane / Avon thing. In contrast Alan Rickman is clearly very good casting for Avon, but that choice breaks the rules of this particular game because Rickman and Darrow are quite similar in style (IMHO) I'd say the same for my favourite casting - Kevin Spacey as Vila (Mr Spacey now holding a world record for 3 completely different nominations) - because I think Spacey and Keating are presenting on a similar wavelength of slight-built, good-looking, deceptively-submissive clever crook. Ed Harris as Travis is casting against superficial resemblance. I can sort of see it. Something about centred confident physicality and lack of frills. That's why I like this game, because now I have a new possible idea of how one fan (in this case Harriet) sees a character. I have been racking my brains for good casting against appearance for Blake. Denzel Washington is a possibility, he's 'good' without being soppy, but I think he is too introverted. My current choice is Tim Robbins. He's a 'goodie', and he's into human rights and anti-censorship and so-on, and he's extroverted like Blake, and also a bit odd and twisted. However I'm wondering if that might be against the rules, because his other notable characteristic is that he's a great big bloke, like Gareth. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:34:25 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I've come up with a possible for Blake - unfortunately, it will mean nothing AT ALL to non-Australians (sorry), and they share nothing *physically* but curls and a gorgeous smile ... Ernie Dingo. Well, for some reason it works for me. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:42:43 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] 'Tis Different All Right (Was: Why Not Blake II?) Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jeroen wrote: Been thinking, and I wouldn't mind that meself ... BUT ... This is where we each come into our own, as it were. What *I'd* like to see (being both single-minded and somewhat frivolous) is ... [a] the period inbetween when Our Heroes boarded the Liberator and when they got the food and hot water computers to work; [b] Vila's first driv- errr, flying lesson; [c] Vila's introduction to the treasure room; [d] how exactly they worked out how all those alien medical thingummies worked (Fearless Leader for volunteer duty again?) [e] the bit where they ferry Avalon to safety, and her - umm - POV, as a poor-but-honest-and-dedicated revolutionary, on Blake's group of rebel donwannabes; [f] whatever it was that got both My Darlings in such a baaaaddd mood just before Redemption; [g] the *proper* holiday Cally must have insisted on after Horizon; [h] some more of Jenna's 'old friends', nearly as unsavoury a lot as Avon's; [i] some of *Vila's* 'old friends' (now that would've been fun); [j] the twenty-four hours after Voice. God, I wanted to see the twenty-four hours after Voice; [k] the bit where Tarrant actually boarded the Liberator, and the Death Squad were already there; [l] the bit where they cleaned out Jenna's old room (she *was* a smuggler, quite possibly with avaricious instincts, this could have been interesting, says packrat moi); [l] whatever it was Our Heroes did to get Servie from "forget Blake" (Aftermath) to using him as bait in Volcano and all the way up to "you'd never let Blake die" (this must've been a doozie); and other Zen-cam moments. (PS - let no one say 'write them yourself - or I might, and *then* you'll be sorry, 'cause Chris Boucher I ain't :-)) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:45:01 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 II? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mistral wrote: Even more ouch ... went for a job interview this week, and couldn't help imagining Our Heroes interviewing rebel wannabes for the extra (and never filled) bunks on the Liberator. Fearless Leader would head the panel, of course, Jenna and Avon would be on it Or Else (and I thought the Professor was daunting enough, if rather less decorative) ... maybe they'd be lucky and Gan would insist on being there to make the luckless applicants feel less intimidated. Vila would be only interested in how pretty they were (if female) and how good a drinking companion they'd make (either sex). And of course, the very first question would be "never mind your revolutionary credentials - just how *crooked* are you?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:06:26 EDT From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: > All this while Blake keeps prodding Avon, trying to bring Avon around > to the cause, to be his 'best' self (as Blake sees it); The suggestion that Blake made Avon better (or tried to make him better) comes up periodically, and I've yet to understand it. Where about Avon do you think needed improving and how did Blake attempt to bring it about? > and this prodding > is good for Avon, the mental stimulation feeds his attachment to Blake, > since it's one of the things Avon needs in a friendship, and it doesn't > drive him away because it's always underlaid by Blake's respect and > acceptance - Blake tries to change Avon's opinion, not his nature. Something drove Avon away. "I need to be free of him." What do you think Avon had in mind when he said that and how does it relate to the above? On the same topic--liking shipmates--it was interesting to hear Gareth say (on THE ACTOR SPEAKS CD) that Blake didn't like any of his shipmates. He cared about them in the way you'd care about anyone you came in contact with, but there was no deep caring. He primarily viewed them as tools to use for the job he was trying to accomplish. While I don't accept what an actor might say as canon, his view of Blake doesn't contradict anything in canon. It's a valid, possible interpretation of what we see on the screen. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:02:57 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Carol wrote: On the same topic--liking shipmates--it was interesting to hear Gareth say (on THE ACTOR SPEAKS CD) that Blake didn't like any of his shipmates. He cared about them in the way you'd care about anyone you came in contact with, but there was no deep caring. He primarily viewed them as tools to use for the job he was trying to accomplish. While I don't accept what an actor might say as canon, his view of Blake doesn't contradict anything in canon. It's a valid, possible interpretation of what we see on the screen.> Oh, I'd say that his moments of total heart-over-head come under *my* heading of canonical evidence against it (one person's canon, of course, is another's 'which tape were *you* watching? ) ... The Web, and the remarkable speed with which he gives in when 'his friend' is threatened ; SLD and the way he's determined to go back for Cally, only baulked when Avon uses his loyalty *to the others* to stop him (and when he finds out Cally's alive, all bets are off); Breakdown, and his refusal to turn back in the face of the danger from the zone, because one life depends on it; and also - in my opinion, at any rate - his refusal here to use his unquestionable (by this stage) influence over Avon to keep an extremely valuable 'tool'; Redemption and his repeated (and always punished) attempts to protect or find out what's happened to the others; Horizon and his willingness to surrender himself to try and save them (this is not just giving his life for them, because *he* is unlikely to die quickly or easily once back in Federation hands and he knows it); Trial - the bolt; Countdown and *that* freeze at the end - he's already *said* that he and Vila were pulling out, but faced with the possibility of Avon's death, he can't do it; Star One, and that last, almost desperate attempt to reach Avon, even though he doesn't think it'll work ... (for what it is worth ..." that's rather touching, he doesn't know if Avon will believe him, but he's got to try). There's other stuff of course, if one is looking (and me, I look. Lots) but it's more individual interpretation; these are what I'd call on-screen proof positive (no one has to agree with me, of course). He is ruthless and single-minded, yes, but he cares. Lots. More than most of the others ever do, IMHO (not that - casting a quick eye over the entire Liberator/Scorpio crew - that's all that much, they're not a very warm and fuzzy bunch all told.) I haven't heard the 'Actor Speaks' CD, but on one of the Blake's Back tapes, Gareth mentions that he was *always* looking for and playing up Blake's faults, to prevent him being too good. This concern would probably colour his own view of his character - it certainly was a Good Thing, as it made for a far richer and more complex character, but I don't have to agree with it, any more than I have to agree with Paul Darrow or Steven Pacey or Jacqueline Pearce about *their* characters. Hell, I didn't even agree with whom Laurence Olivier thought he was playing in 'Hamlet' ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:36:30 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On the subject of actors and their views on their characters, I just thought of something Michael Keating said on one of the tapes about his Vila, that he thought Vila rather fancied *Jenna*. This honestly startled me at the time, because of the four female crew members, Jenna would be the one I would have said Vila showed the *least* interest in (okay, his passes at Dayna and Soling were probably in the comfortable expectation that they wouldn't take him up on them, but ...) Does anyone else see what he meant by this? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:42:01 +0200 From: Steve Kilbane To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) Message-Id: <200008260942.KAA01806@whitecrow.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Alison wrote: > I have been racking my brains for good casting against appearance for Blake. > [...] My current choice is Tim Robbins. [...] However I'm > wondering if that might be against the rules, because his other notable > characteristic is that he's a great big bloke, like Gareth. Well, if you want to go for a big-but-not-noticably-so guy who you wouldn't normally think of as Blake... (drum roll....) ...Mitch Pileggi. steve ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:32:32 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39A7E30E.23284BBB@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol Mc wrote: > Mistral wrote: > > > All this while Blake keeps prodding Avon, trying to bring Avon around > > to the cause, to be his 'best' self (as Blake sees it); > > The suggestion that Blake made Avon better (or tried to make him better) > comes up periodically, and I've yet to understand it. Where about Avon do > you think needed improving and how did Blake attempt to bring it about? Ah. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if I've been unclear; There really isn't any way IMO to do justice to such a complex topic as the A-B relationship in one relatively short post; but as Sally showed me the courtesy of asking, I wanted to do the courtesy of replying. I was just trying to give an approximate idea of how I approach the subject. So I take responsibility for any misunderstanding. If you'll note in the passage you've quoted, I've put 'best' in quotes, and the parenthetical (as he sees it). I was trying to distance myself from the opinion; it's (IMO) *Blake's* view, not mine. In fact, it's most of the crew's opinion, and most of the fans', from what I can tell. Avon is constantly being referred to as cold, heartless, a bastard, a selfish brat, secretive, nasty, psychopathic, a madman - onscreen and off. While I don't share that opinion, I do recognize it as being the most common reaction to someone of Avon's temperament; to deny that would be (for me) to ignore the obvious. Where I've tried to draw the line between Blake and Vila vs. the rest of the crew is in the matter of accepting Avon's temperament. Vila never, ever, ever tries to change Avon. He might try to get Avon to do what he wants, but that's something different entirely. Blake learns fairly early on to try to change Avon's *mind*, not his heart. There is some emotional leakage due to Blake's nature, but it's mostly incidental - his appeals to Avon quickly become based on logic; and the consequence is that he reaches Avon's heart as well. [The reason for this is easiest explained by type theory: as an INTP, feeling is Avon's *last* (4th) function; under stress he will reject it, which means that an emotional appeal from someone who claims to be a friend is the *least* likely way to persuade him - it will IMO be viewed as emotional blackmail; it would either have the opposite effect and/or damage the friendship. However, Blakes discretion in this will earn Avon's appreciation.] What do people want to see changed about Avon? I infer that they want him to be kinder (as in more overtly pleasant), more open, more group-oriented and democratic. Frankly, I don't find those particular changes either likely or even desirable; those sorts of changes would deny his basic nature and diminish his strengths. I like him just the way he's presented. This goes straight to discussions in the past about the fact that there's more than one way to be normal. Avon is one of the rarer ways, but he's perfectly normal for his type. OTOH, Carol, what I won't do is paint Avon all white, any more than I'll paint him all black; Avon is a deliciously complex mix of dark and light, and (I think) portrayed as being far more aware of the potential darkness within himself than many of us real-live people are. I hope very much that Dana Shilling won't mind me saying this, but I've had the privilege of reading her story 'Not Our Kind, Darling', in which she portrays an Avon who is darker, edgier, more self-destructive than the fellow I know - not my Avon at all; but I *recognize* Dana's Avon, I like Dana's Avon, I care about what happens to him - because I recognize the *potential* for Dana's version of Avon in the fellow I know. The road not taken. Now, somebody's going to think I'm waffling, so I'll try to recap. Sometimes I feel as if Sally is over on the one side going, 'No, no, you just don't get it, Avon is BAD! He would do this, and this, and this, and this!' and Carol is over on the other side going, 'No, no, you just don't get it, Avon is wonderful, good, noble.' Um. My version: Yes, Sally, I agree that Avon would do all those things you say that he would do, and for very *nearly* the reasons that you say; however, I see those actions as being in line with I perceive as his values system (as *I* draw it from canon and type theory); and though I agree that *most* people would say those actions and reasons would make him BAD, I am not one of *most*. I see him as having a strict if narrow moral code which is very different from most of society; for the most part, I see those values as good, since there is some overlap with my own values. That he persists in living his values in the face of conflict from his society, his friends, his situation, and the darker side of his own nature, makes him IMO both noble and admirable. You could therefore reasonably say that I see him as good for the same reasons that many see him as bad. Without the potential for dark in Avon, the events of Blake are not possible. Without the potential for light, they are not a tragedy. > > and this prodding > > is good for Avon, the mental stimulation feeds his attachment to Blake, > > since it's one of the things Avon needs in a friendship, and it doesn't > > drive him away because it's always underlaid by Blake's respect and > > acceptance - Blake tries to change Avon's opinion, not his nature. > > Something drove Avon away. "I need to be free of him." What do you think > Avon had in mind when he said that and how does it relate to the above? Another result of my oversimplification here; what I'm saying is that Avon isn't offended and driven away by the *style* of Blake's persuasion. But Blake *is* having an emotional effect on Avon, and thanks to the constant stress of their lives, Avon's capacity for dealing with Blake's feelings, and Blake's illogical cause, is stretched very thin. He's exhausted (and so is Blake, but they're exhausted by different things); he needs some distance rather desperately. Of course, he realizes later that he didn't want it to be permanent. Great big bleeding hearts - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. > On the same topic--liking shipmates--it was interesting to hear Gareth say > (on THE ACTOR SPEAKS CD) that Blake didn't like any of his shipmates. He > cared about them in the way you'd care about anyone you came in contact with, > but there was no deep caring. He primarily viewed them as tools to use for > the job he was trying to accomplish. While I don't accept what an actor > might say as canon, his view of Blake doesn't contradict anything in canon. > It's a valid, possible interpretation of what we see on the screen. Ooh. So Gareth's saying Blake was manipulative? Seriously; Sally's answered this, but let me add that the end result that we see on the screen isn't the view of any one person. It's a composite that may not reflect the view of *any* of the people who participated in bringing it to the screen; and then it's filtered through each individual viewer's perceptions and frames of reference. Gareth Thomas's view may have informed his performance, but so did his subconscious, the directing, etc. When I'm playing the game, I'm trying to build a picture that hangs together, that makes logical sense to me personally. I can ignore astrophysics errors because they don't jump out at me; but I can't ignore the fact that my brain and instincts both tell me that Avon wouldn't care for someone who didn't have the *capacity* at least to return his friendship; and if Blake had deceived Avon in that regard, Avon would have perceived that as betrayal on the same level as Anna's, and likely would have felt entirely justified in killing Blake on Gauda Prime. That is the only way in which I could perceive that interpretation as valid. And I'd like to reiterate that I'm only trying to explain my perceptions, to discuss, not to argue. I enjoyed thinking about these questions. Thank you. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:47:09 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Tis Different All Right (Was: Why Not Blake II?) Message-ID: <39A7E67D.E5D53D88@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton wrote: > [f] whatever it was that got both My Darlings in such a baaaaddd mood just > before Redemption; I thought it was Orac's prophecy? Followed by the ship being attacked? > [j] the twenty-four hours after Voice. God, I wanted to see the twenty-four > hours after Voice; Why? > (PS - let no one say 'write them yourself - or I might, and *then* you'll be > sorry, 'cause Chris Boucher I ain't :-)) You're not Trever Hoyle, either. Write them yourself. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:31:03 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) Message-Id: <4.1.20000826121242.00c81760@mail.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:42 AM 8/26/00 +0200, Steve Kilbane wrote: >Well, if you want to go for a big-but-not-noticably-so guy who you >wouldn't normally think of as Blake... > >(drum roll....) > >...Mitch Pileggi. Ooh I have seen the light! Forget Ralph Fiennes -- Gillian Anderson for Avon! She's got that withering How-Do-You-Manage-To-Breathe-Without-Written-Instructions stare right down to a science. And the actress who plays Marita Corroborrowhatever as Soolin. Well, I guess that's not really "against type", is it. -- For A Dread Time, Call Penny: http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:01:37 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <007701c00f90$22f89e80$ab029ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Betty Ragan wrote :> Neil Faulkner wrote: > > > If the Magellanic Clouds are in reach, someone will go there, simply because > > they are there. > > True enough, but somehow I can't see the Federation bothering... > They might have gone there to look for new minerals for mining, or to steal new technology. Servalan herself went on a pretty long trip in Moloch for the duplicator. Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: rpdavies@excite.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <4174462.967324238851.JavaMail.imail@ringo.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > remember when Jenna first hit the acceleration > button on > the Liberator? Everyone's face showed the G Force effects. I don't > ever > remember seeing that again - but that could be more the > responsibility of > the episode's director. Thiis scene happens before Zen scans Jenna & I guess this gathered enough information for Zen to get a suitable human setting for the the gravity conpansators (Or whatever device keeps everything on the floor during manouvers except in extreme conditions, like raining plasma bolts.) Just an idea. Richard Davies _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:32:40 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Tis Different All Right (Was: Why Not Blake II?) Message-ID: <39A84588.A7CF5E1D@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton wrote: > (PS - let no one say 'write them yourself - or I might, and *then* you'll be > sorry, 'cause Chris Boucher I ain't :-)) Damn, my little typie fingers were all set to do just that! But... But *Sally*! I *like* your writing! -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:43:55 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39A8482B.F1624E9C@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton wrote: > On the subject of actors and their views on their characters, I just thought > of something Michael Keating said on one of the tapes about his Vila, that > he thought Vila rather fancied *Jenna*. This honestly startled me at the > time, because of the four female crew members, Jenna would be the one I > would have said Vila showed the *least* interest in (okay, his passes at > Dayna and Soling were probably in the comfortable expectation that they > wouldn't take him up on them, but ...) > > Does anyone else see what he meant by this? Well, I could easily imagine Vila finding Jenna extremely attractive (somehow -- don't ask me why I think this -- she does seem like his type, physically), but never acted on it because she knew he'd kick his ass. Well, not that Dayna and Soolin couldn't kick his ass, but Jenna might have given him more indication that she *would*. Probably in the holding cell before we even met them... -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:24:19 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Space Travel Message-ID: <000501c00fb4$c44a2fa0$8c694e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Travis isn't the only one who thinks that intergalactic travel is possible: in Horizon, Ro says that the planet is important because of its Monopasium-239: "It's needed for the latest hyperspace ships that will send men into new galaxies." -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:52:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "rita d'orac" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Space Travel Message-ID: <380201881.967333976432.JavaMail.root@web304-mc.mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana says: <> Tarrant makes the same assumption in Dawn of the Gods when he's speaking to Groff: GROFF You went to the F.S.A.? TARRANT I'm surprised you've heard of it if you're from another galaxy. rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:01:28 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Space Travel Message-ID: <39A85A58.15F8EEE7@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana Shilling wrote: > Travis isn't the only one who thinks that intergalactic travel > is possible: in Horizon, Ro says that the planet is important > because of its Monopasium-239: "It's needed for the latest > hyperspace ships that will send men into new galaxies." Actually, I interpreted this as meaning that intergalactic travel *wasn't* possible using the current stardrives, but that the Federation was working on building new hyperdrive ships that *would* make it possible. Hence the need for Monopasium. -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:04:47 +0930 From: "Minnie" To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] info request Message-ID: <003601c00fe0$220640e0$56ae3acb@marina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I was wondering if someone could tell me what was requested on Scorpio for speed? Is Time distort the proper term?? If so, what was the speed they often used to get away from pursuit ships?? Thanks! Min.xxx -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #240 **************************************