From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #244 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/244 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 244 Today's Topics: [B7L] Recasting and Cricketers [ "Erica Hayes" ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Doraleen McArthur" ] Re: [B7L] Re:recasting [ Kathryn Andersen ] Re: [B7L] Re:recasting [ "Doraleen McArthur" ] RE: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) [ Iain Coleman ] [B7L] casting, recasting etc. [ Alison Page ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Iain Coleman ] Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. [ Mac4781@aol.com ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ mistral@ptinet.net ] [B7L] In praise of Mistral [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ] Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ] [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@comp ] [B7L] Thanks, Harriet [ mistral@ptinet.net ] [B7L] Re: recasting [ Steve Rogerson ] Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc [ "Neil Faulkner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Recasting and Cricketers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Heh heh... Blake: Wasim Akram. Survived allegations of misconduct (??) to lead a group of ultra-talented misfits who would have much more success if they'd just co-operate and be nice to one another for a change. (Hmmm. Maybe I mean Richie Richardson.) Avon: Brian Lara. Sometimes being in charge distracts him from what he's good at. His skill much vaunted, he can be brilliant at times but unfortunately no one really likes him very much. Jenna: Justin Langer. Cool, competent, smart - but we just don't see enough of him. Vila: Mark Waugh. Elegant, obviously an expert in his field, does some great stuff for the team but there are times when you wonder if he's got a brain. Gan: Inzamam-Ul-Haq. Big, can't move very fast, hangs around in the background pretending to be something he's not, but when the restraints are removed, he goes on a rampage. Or maybe Shane Lee - only ever made the team because he was in the right place at the right time. Cally: Graeme Hick. Did a few good things early but then went soft and never lived up to his full potential. Travis: Hansie Cronje. Humorless, driven, chased by demons. You can't deny he still has talent and presence but we liked him better *before*... (Or maybe Hansie should be Avon - finds the idea of being wealthy rather appealing, and his team mates want to punch him in the face) Servalan: Javed Miandad. Flamboyant, scheming, can taunt the opposition past reason and will wait forever to get his own back. If only he was on your side. Dayna: Saqlain Mushtaq. Small, looks harmless enough from a distance but if you don't pay attention he'll pull a devastating weapon from nowhere and it's thanks for coming. Tarrant: Shoaib Akhtar. Young, brave, handsome (three good reasons for anyone not to like him). Impressive on first sight but it's too early to tell if he's actually any good. Soolin: Brett Lee. An extremely fast, sometimes intimidating gun for hire whose bark is at least as bad as his bite and who must take forever to do his hair in the morning. Erica. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:27:18 -0400 From: "Doraleen McArthur" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <000201c0115e$8554d060$70f35a0c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dana Shilling > I'm not quite sure how to interpret his reaction to Gan's death, which is so > disproportionate to his reaction to the deaths on the London and Cygnus > Alpha--it could be argued that he is indifferent to the latter because he > didn't know them very well personally, or OTOH that he went postal > in the wake of Gan's death because of the cumulative effect. I'd think more the former. The deaths on the London... well, the people who were actively involved in the revolt were free to be in or out, while by the time Gan dies he knows he has a significant amount of power over the crew of the Liberator. More responsibility in the latter. Same argument for anyone who was uninvolved (*were* all the prisoners involved? I can't remember) but got shot. They're bystanders. He won't be thrilled, but I don't think he'd be any more upset than over any of the *other* bystanders that'd been killed because of his actions. In Gan's case, Blake wanted him to go down to Earth, specifically tried to convince him to go (well, tried to convince the whole crew), and made a promise that he would pull out if things looked bad. When they did, he had to talk Gan (specifically this time) into continuing. And then, of course, he ended up dead. So then we get "Trial", which is, for Blake, partly about his feelings of guilt for talking Gan to his death and partly a calculated attempt to get the rest of the crew to commit more explicitly to him so he doesn't have to feel so guilty about involving them in this fight. (Er, IMO.) I think it's so spectacular mainly because of the second issue, rather than being much about Gan himself. Note that he didn't react that way to Cally's presumed death; of course, he hasn't known her as long, but I think it's also important that Cally's already a revolutionary; he didn't talk her into that one, and everyone on the Liberator knows it. So there's no need to convince them of his regrets. --Katie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:47:24 -0400 From: "Doraleen McArthur" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <000401c0115e$8e45a1e0$70f35a0c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dana Shilling > Sometimes I think about the Morning Line if Orbit had involved a different > combination of people--i.e., Soolin/Vila: 19:1 in six furlongs (i.e., the > race > would be over in about a minute and a half). Blake/Vila? They would've died nobly together. (See also: "Countdown".) Blake and Avon, on the other hand, would've gotten to "well, what's making us too heavy, then? Obviously it's not a bum shuttle, it worked before..." and would've chucked the neutron speck out the airlock quite a bit earlier. Incidentally, is it ever explained why they can't just turn around and *land* the shuttle? --Katie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:31:37 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Attn: Filk writers and crossoverdoers... Message-ID: <39AB1279.2600@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a friend who likes to award unusual fanfic a "Wicked Fic" award. (She's making some kind of button to send to the winners, and she'll link your writing to her webpage if you permit with the announcement of the win) She's trying to do this on a weekly basis, but doesn't have a lot of submissions. If you'd like one more place to get strange songs about the Blake's 7 crew posted, email her at LizR2@aol.com She asked me to let you guys know about it after I shared with her my contributions to the Blake's 7 haiku cycle. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:49:24 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:recasting Message-ID: <20000829084924.A8106@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 09:50:54AM -0400, Dana Shilling wrote: > Steve Rogerson said: > > > Steve Kilbane said: "Anyone reckon Anthony Stewart Head could do Blake?" > > > > Only if Sarah Michelle Gellar could do Jenna and Alyson Hannigan as > > Cally. > You forgot Nicholas Brendon as Vila. LOL! That would work, it really would... (grin) "I have this complaint, there's a name for it..." "Cowardice?" Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Vila (with irony): Good. Terrific. I'm really looking forward to this. Danger, excitement, sudden death. I can't wait. (Blake's 7: Countdown [B9]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:07:49 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <39AB1AF5.5C58@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (However, if you're > going to try to decide between T and N, I'll point out that Avon > says in 'Mission to Destiny' that he doesn't trust intuition - doesn't > sound very INTJ to me.) iNtuition is quite different from Intuition (the Meyers-Briggs meaning versus the English meaning), if you ask me. I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) but iNtuition (valuing mental processing of data into systems and creative thought versus simply accepting information at face-value) is another matter. I don't like the therm iNtuition for the N type because it strikes me as less useful than say, iNternalized (seeking thought stimulation rather than sensory stimulation). Maybe, however, I'm misinterpreting the whole thing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:20:49 -0400 From: "Doraleen McArthur" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:recasting Message-ID: <008901c01168$ed996d20$68f25a0c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Steve Kilbane > Dana writes: > > You forgot Nicholas Brendon as Vila. > > True (although too young). But I think he could also do > Avaon or Travis, considering how menacing he managed to > be as a hyena. I was just watching _Brassed Off_ earlier tonight and I'm now needing to see Ewan McGregor as Vila. Though I'll admit that's not really casting against type. --Katie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:15:08 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <39AB46DB.58BCE4BF@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen wrote: > > (However, if you're > > going to try to decide between T and N, I'll point out that Avon > > says in 'Mission to Destiny' that he doesn't trust intuition - doesn't > > sound very INTJ to me.) > > iNtuition is quite different from Intuition (the Meyers-Briggs meaning > versus the English meaning), if you ask me. > I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) but > iNtuition (valuing mental processing of data into systems and creative > thought versus simply accepting information at face-value) is another > matter. I don't like the therm iNtuition for the N type because it > strikes me as less useful than say, iNternalized (seeking thought > stimulation rather than sensory stimulation). Maybe, however, I'm > misinterpreting the whole thing. Fair enough; I was teasing a bit, in a pugnacious way. But I take the M-B meaning to mean that N is relating to the ability to conceptualize and extrapolate without hard data; to say, 'what it?' N as possibilities, and S as realities. (And T as the ability to analyze, to build chains of logic.) (And it is true that I don't trust my N skills as much as my T skills. I use N when there isn't enough data for T, or use N as a pointer where to apply T.) Mistral (over-analyzing again) -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:08:25 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re [B7L] Recasting as common British birds Message-ID: <003c01c0119c$51231d40$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If we can have hordes of actors I hav never herd of, and now cricketers, then I reckon birds are legit. BLAKE : North Atlantic Gannet (Sula bassana) - large yet surprisingly graceful, with plumage offering a strikingly black and white perspective. Tendency to dive trustingly into deep waters. Pelagic, therefore mostly seen to be pretty far out. (Though if I were going by American vernacular names, Great Northern Loon would be a strong contender. If political affinities lie in certain directions, he might even be a Red Grouse.) AVON : Eurasian Starling (Sturnus vulgaris) - glossy black with shiny speckles. Long beak. Voice is a consistently irritating variety of tuneless squeaks, squawks and whines. Annoying habit of being everywhere. Should not be confused with the Great Bustard. JENNA : Turtle Dove (Streptopelia turtur) - slender, graceful, rather pretty to look at but doesn't actually do a great deal. VILA : Reed Warbler (Acrocephalus scirpaceus) - small, drab, unassuming appearance. Spends a lot of time in deep cover, but easily lured out by its strong inquisitive streak*. Very vocal, but song is as incessant as it is monotonous. Noticeably flighty when disturbed or agitated. CALLY : Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus collybita) - tiny, dull green, with incredibly thin legs. Voice largely consists of feeble 'seep seep' calls. Ability to always be in the bush immediately beyond the one you're peering into suggests possible telepathic capability, but if so then nearly all birds have got it. GAN : Greylag Goose (Anser anser) - large, dull, ponderous and generally unmemorable. TARRANT : North American Ruddy Duck (Oxyura jamaicensis) - an introduced species that has no right to be here. Decorative in appearance and resourceful in its ability to colonise suitable sites, which might be the underlying cause of a perennially smug expression and pertly upright tail. Currently the subject of a controversial culling programme, which I happen to be all in favour of. DAYNA : Eurasian Jay (Garrulus glandarius) - gaudy and raucous, with a pronounced sense of curiosity (though not, perhaps, a healthy one as such). Attractive appearance belies the way it bullies smaller species. Very rarely heard singing. SOOLIN : Great Grey Shrike (Lanius excubitor) - predominantly grey plumage, but nevertheless rather attractive in a cold, stark way. Largely silent, and seen mostly towards the end of the year. Also known as the Butcher Bird. SERVALAN : Goshawk (Accipiter gentilis) - a majestic predator, pronouncedly deep-chested, with many plumage phases. Known to chase after Starlings, but will also go after larger prey. Inhabits dense and intriguing forests which it negotiates with ease. A tenacious species, surviving all attempts at persecution. TRAVIS I : Raven (Corvus corax) - large, black, stern and sinister. TRAVIS II : Coot (Fulica atra) - somewhat smaller but still black, though nowhere near as stern and not really sinister at all. Honks a lot. ZEN : Long-eared Owl (Asio otus) - just sits there doing nothing. What it does when no one's looking is a mystery. ORAC : Sanderling (Calidris alba) - very fidgety, ceaselessly pattering about, and appears resentful at being disturbed. SLAVE : Ring-necked Parakeet (Psittacula krameri) - recently released into the wild and has unfortunately managed to establish itself. Almost painful to listen to, especially given its habit of making itself heard at every opportunity. Classified as a pest, or if it isn't then it damn well ought to be. *You can do this by making 'pish-pish' noises. Honest. I've done it and it works. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:33:31 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <003d01c0119c$52407420$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Helen Krummenacker > I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) I wouldn't describe intuition as guesswork. More as the ability to perceive patterns (of shape, form, behaviour, whatever) instantly without going through all the tedious logical slogwork of checking the position of each element, veryifying its authenticity etc. If, for example, I see a little green bird flit out of a bush, I know intuitively that it's a phylloscopus warbler. Shape, size, manner of flight etc all instantly click into place. I don't have to ask myself what kind of bird it is, because I've seen thousands of phylloscs. But to determine which species of phyllosc it is, I have to go through the checklist of eyestripe length and prominence, leg colour and thickness, relative wing length, bill structure, presence or absence of wing bars etc before I finally decide it's just another Chiffchaff pretending to be something rare. The problem with intuition is that it's based on prior experience, so it tries to squeeze things into pre-existing patterns to which they don't necessarily conform. Nevertheless, it's a valuable process when speed is of the essence, even if it can go wrong. It's also useful for realising that 54124 actually spells SARA (quick bit of obB7 there). As for Meyers-Briggs, I classify people into just two types. Those who are into M-B pigeonholing, and those with something better to do:) Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:27:25 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <39AB73EC.D12D709F@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil Faulkner wrote: > As for Meyers-Briggs, I classify people into just two types. Those who are > into M-B pigeonholing, and those with something better to do:) Like classifying birds? Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:50:54 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 Mac4781@aol.com wrote: > On the same topic--liking shipmates--it was interesting to hear Gareth say > (on THE ACTOR SPEAKS CD) that Blake didn't like any of his shipmates. He > cared about them in the way you'd care about anyone you came in contact with, > but there was no deep caring. He primarily viewed them as tools to use for > the job he was trying to accomplish. While I don't accept what an actor > might say as canon, his view of Blake doesn't contradict anything in canon. > It's a valid, possible interpretation of what we see on the screen. > I think Blake was very good at caring about big, abstract things and not very good at caring about individual people. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Louise Rutter wrote: > Tom and I were discussing recasting last night and came up with Michelle > Yeoh as Dayna. Oh yes. Carrie Ann Moss could do Soolin or Jenna equally well - > she's the only non-blonde I can picture as Soolin. Dear God, no. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:53:21 +0100 From: Alison Page To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" Subject: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C6F9@BRAMLEY> Content-Type: text/plain Hey, this has been really interesting. The cricketers were excellent, even though I'd only heard of half of them. But really funny. Would anybody like to do a football one? (that's soccer BTW) In fact as I write this I just stopped to read Neil's bird analogies and laughed out loud in the office. On the casting of Skinner and Giles to play Blake. They wouldn't be my choice, but I think the comments reveal an interesting perspective. Would I be wrong in saying that people who see an association of Blake with these other characters see him as a predominantly calm and parental figure, somewhat exasperated by the people he is responsible for? Hmmm.. ver-ry interesting 'und how long haf you had these feelings about your father'? Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:06:43 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <20000829170643.A10821@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 07:07:49PM -0700, Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > (However, if you're > > going to try to decide between T and N, I'll point out that Avon > > says in 'Mission to Destiny' that he doesn't trust intuition - doesn't > > sound very INTJ to me.) > > iNtuition is quite different from Intuition (the Meyers-Briggs meaning > versus the English meaning), if you ask me. > I hate intuition (the valuing of guesswork over logic and knowlege) but > iNtuition (valuing mental processing of data into systems and creative > thought versus simply accepting information at face-value) is another > matter. I don't like the therm iNtuition for the N type because it > strikes me as less useful than say, iNternalized (seeking thought > stimulation rather than sensory stimulation). Maybe, however, I'm > misinterpreting the whole thing. I found it a *lot* more enlightening when I read a book which linked the N (iNtuition) part to *imagination*. That made a lot more sense to me. Imagination is the throwing out of ideas, the percolating of possibilities, and, like intuition, it does consist of ideas out of "nowhere", and it is, also, the opposite of Sensing - the down-to-earth attention to the detailed mundane realities. But it doesn't have the same irrational connotations as intuition. Intuition, as whoever Avona was quoting said, is considered to be the opposite of logic. But an INTJ (and an INTP) use iNutition and logic hand in hand -- so obviously it can't be "intuition" in the commonly used sense. Wheras logic and imagination *can* go hand in hand very powerfully, the imagination disciplined by the logic, and the logic given more scope by the imagination. Wheras when you have an INF* type, their N function probably acts more like intuition, because it is fed and supported by Feeling, and therefore it's harder to define, and it works non-logically. A powerful imagination with an F acts like empathy -- which is what Cally would be using. Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "...but in future, I would prefer something a little more reliable than hope." -- Kerr Avon to Roj Blake (Blake's 7: Horizon [B4]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:39:42 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39AB84DD.DA5F2534@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wanted to clear up a couple of small points. Carol Mc wrote: > > and I don't > > think you can be said to be a true friend if you don't encourage their > > growth. > > Ahhh, there's encouraging growth and encouraging growth. I suppose it > depends on how one categorizes encouraging Avon to be part of the rebellion. > I don't see that as encouraging growth. Nor do I. But Blake, with his warmly passionate extraverted nature, would, IMO, see encouraging people to work together for the common good as encouraging growth. Group-oriented people generally (though not always) see group-oriented behaviour as more mature. > My Avon appears, to me, to be a colder > Avon than your Avon. And I'm not saying cold is bad; I think it's great. LOL. We *are* miscommunicating. I think cold is wonderful. But even cold-natured people appreciate being liked. At simplest level, what I have been saying all along is that Avon appreciates warm-natured Blake's *not* trying to warm Avon up. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:41:16 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <39AB853C.C7C243A2@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn Andersen wrote: > Wheras when you have an INF* type, their N function probably acts more > like intuition, because it is fed and supported by Feeling, and > therefore it's harder to define, and it works non-logically. A > powerful imagination with an F acts like empathy -- which is what > Cally would be using. Ooh, now that's a very useful insight. Nice and logical, IMHO. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:36:06 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: b7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Dana Shilling wrote: > I'm not quite sure how to interpret his reaction to Gan's death, which is so > disproportionate to his reaction to the deaths on the London and Cygnus > Alpha--it could be argued that he is indifferent to the latter because he > didn't know them very well personally, or OTOH that he went postal > in the wake of Gan's death because of the cumulative effect. I think it's because he did a bait-and-switch on his crew, especially Gan. They were reluctant to go ahead with the attack on Control, and only agreed because Blake assured them that he would pull out if the odds were less than even. After they realised Kasabi's team were no more, he should by rights have aborted the mission. Gan urged him to do so. Instead, he browbeat him into continuing. That's why Blake was so crushed (metaphorically speaking) by his death. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:38:31 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: b7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Neil Faulkner wrote: > That's the theory, anyway. Quite how it stands up in practice I can't say, > since I don't buy commercial tie-in fiction. B7 is not exactly brimming > over with examples, and that's the only series I'd show any interest in re > such products. I don't see the theory standing up too well with the DW New > Adventures, but it might with commercial ST fiction. I reckon your theory stands up fairly well with the DW novels. They are produced mainly by professional fans, or fannish professionals, for a mainly fannish audience. It's just that there are enough Who fans out there to support a monthly magazine, book range, regular audio dramas and so on. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:41:11 EDT From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. Message-ID: <34.9c9e4ab.26dced47@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison asked: > On the casting of Skinner and Giles to play Blake. They wouldn't be my > choice, but I think the comments reveal an interesting perspective. Would I > be wrong in saying that people who see an association of Blake with these > other characters see him as a predominantly calm and parental figure, > somewhat exasperated by the people he is responsible for? Hmmm.. ver-ry > interesting 'und how long haf you had these feelings about your father'? I've been pondering something along this line in recent days: images of Blake. It seems as if a portion of fandom has a default setting for Blake of calm, caring, compassionate, extroverted, revolutionary. Whereas Gareth's image (per how I interpret his comments on the CD) is more in keeping with how fandom views Avon: reserved, calculating, driven. For the former it's usually assumed that Blake came from a warm, loving family. Gareth thinks Blake's family was loving but not warm. He speculates that while Blake loved his father, he had difficulty communicating with him. None of this is really making any point, except that it's been interesting to mentally review the series with Gareth's Blake in mind and to find how well it fits. One of the interviewers mentioned that he thought Blake regarded the Liberator crew as substitute family (which Gareth didn't agree with) , with Avon filling in for Blake's father (with both relationships being stormy), Jenna filling in for Blake's mother (Gareth mentioned he thought Jenna was far more beautiful than Blake's mother ), Cally and Vila as Blake's siblings. Gareth added (tongue in cheek) that Orac must be the family pet. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 02:55:18 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39AB8885.FFE2EF46@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana Shilling (replying to me) wrote: > > Without the potential for dark in Avon, the events of Blake are > > not possible. Without the potential for light, they are not a tragedy. > Without Blake's ability to devise a scheme hare-brained well-nigh > beyond the bounds of fiction, they are not an episode. Aha! You see, it *is* Blake's fault! > >but I can't ignore the fact that my brain and instincts both > > tell me that Avon wouldn't care for someone who didn't have > > the *capacity* at least to return his friendship; > This is a well-argued point of view and I respect it, but (and I see you are a gentleperson and a scholar ;-) > bearing in mind which list this is) I rather think that Avon > would look for yet further evidence of a cruel and uncaring > Universe PRECISELY by choosing to care for someone whom > he believed was incapable of reciprocation. I don't think we even have to resort to Other List material to see the potential for this viewpoint. An Avon who had taken the slight turning that would shift him from my version to the somewhat more self-destructive Avon of your fics would seem to me to be nearly certain to punish himself in this and similar ways. Makes sense to me. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:07:59 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] In praise of Mistral Message-ID: <200008291009_MC2-B166-F9DC@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Just back from a weekend away, during which I visited the Dome - not bad for a tenner, I thought, featuring as it does the Travis zone (it's an illusion!), the Ultraworld zone (actually a heart, not a brain, but surprisingly similar), the Lexx zone ( a bunch of talking brains), and lo= ts of others... Anyway, I haven't time to reply to some of the extremely interesting but lengthy threads, but would like to say I agreed with most of what Mistral= was saying. And I second Sally's recommendation of Pat Fenech's Remember= Me. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:08:12 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <200008291009_MC2-B166-F9E0@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Oh, all right, I'll tackle one: Carol objected to Mistral: >At one point you said Blake accepted = >Avon for what he was, then below that > you said he was trying to persuade Avon = >to be his best. = Don't see the problem. Blake sees through Avon's carefully concealed disguises, spots his potential to be "his best", and tries to focus him o= n that. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:09:28 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <200008291009_MC2-B166-F9F8@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Betty wrote: >Can you imagine Blake accidentally e-mailing > Servalan with the plans for his next raid? = Aha! Possible explanation for Hostage. Avon was actually trying to emai= l the news that Travis was on Xbar to the Support Group for Vengeful Relatives of Travis's Victims, but accidentally sent it to Travis's ex-employers instead. And he was too embarrassed to explain he'd made su= ch a basic technical mistake, so preferred to pretend it was what he'd intended all along. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:09:59 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] recasting (was Coltrane) Message-ID: <200008291010_MC2-B166-FA00@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Iain replied to Jessica: >> Iain, you're a genius. > >I hear these words surprisingly rarely. Me too. And I published first! And I thought of Helen Baxendale for Soolin in October 1996, though no on= e else seems to have offered that one. Alison wrote: >For that reason I think it is most interesting > to think of recasting against superficial > resemblance and style. It makes you be a > bit more creative, and it brings out deeper = >aspects of the character as you see it. Precisely. I was trying to get away from Avon qua sex symbol. Only then= I found out lots of people thought Coltrane sexy. Which he is, of course. = Well, never mind. >Ed Harris as Travis is casting against superficial = >resemblance. I can sort of see it. Something about = >centred confident physicality and lack of frills. >That's why I like this game, because now I have > a new possible idea of how one fan (in this case = >Harriet) sees a character. Well, actually Ed Harris was Darren R's idea, and I threw in James Woods.= = This probably was Travis qua sex symbol... but my excuse is that I percei= ve these two actors as very intense, and intensity is what I like about Travis. >I have been racking my brains for good casting > against appearance for Blake. Denzel Washington > is a possibility, he's 'good' without being soppy, > but I think he is too introverted. I can't be bothered to go and check until the browser is mended, but it's= just possible I mentioned him too. I know I was rather keen on a black Blake, and knowing me that would have meant him or Hugh Quarshie, who is seen far too rarely these days. This may have had something to do with a= throwaway remark at Who's 7 in October 1996, when Paul Darrow mentioned that they'd once discussed what nationalities the various characters were= , and decided Avon was South African. (No, I've forgotten the others.) If= the actors had discussed it, they presumably did so in the time of the apartheid regime, so I thought a black Blake and a white South African Av= on would throw up some interesting tensions. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:10:08 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <200008291010_MC2-B166-FA04@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Morrigan wrote: >When I hear Pope and Avon in the same sentence > I immediately think Medici. The Medici popes weren't very bright... or are you thinking total cock-up= ? Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:07:12 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: [B7L] Thanks, Harriet Message-ID: <39ABC390.1D27E46F@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice to know that my little pocket of insanity hasn't completely closed off from the larger universe yet ;-) I'm now thoroughly mortified and in need of a lie down. Fortunately it's my bedtime. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:57:59 +0000 From: Steve Rogerson To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] Re: recasting Message-ID: <39ABF9A7.2B23AB6C@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Henderson wrote: "Provided you DONT use David Borenaez as Avon." Now there's an idea - dark, brooding, perfect. Dana wrote: "You forgot Nicholas Brendon as Vila." I thought it went without saying. Someone to play Tarrant would be difficult - I like all the Buffy actors too much. Helen wrote: > James Marston (Spike) isn't really a Cockney; he's from Modesto. To my > ear he deos the accent rather well, but I suppose you Brits can tell me > if it's totally hokey to your ears. IT's not too bad. At the recent Nocturnal convention in London, he said that Tony Head had been giving him lessons. Also, I can forgive the odd Americanism and American twang, because any Brit who'd been over there that long would have picked up little bits of American accent and dialogue - that just helps make it more realistic. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:17:30 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Cc: Maureen Marrs , Ann Bown , Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow on new CD Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Paul Darrow has just recorded the role of Kaston Iago for two CDs in the new 'Kaldor City' series. This series follows on from the well-known Dr Who story 'Robots of Death' which was written by Chris Boucher who also wrote the follow-up novel 'Corpse Marker'. Scott Fredericks, one of the most popular guest actors ever to appear on Blake's 7, reprises his role as Carnell the psychostrategist. Two CDs are currently being produced: Occam's Razor written by Alan Stevens and Jim Smith, and Death's Head by Chris Boucher. Each play lasts around 50 minutes. Cast includes: Paul Darrow - Kaston Iago Scott Federicks - Carnell Russell Hunter - Uvanov (the character he played in 'Robots of Death') Rull - Trevor Cooper (from 'Star Cops') Cotton - Brian Croucher Firstmaster Landerchild - Peter Miles Firstmaster Strecker - Peter Tuddenham Producer - Alan Stevens Directors - Alan Stevens and Alistair Lock Executive Producer - Chris Boucher Cover art - Pete Wallbank The CDs are expected to be released in the early months of 2001. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:22:46 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: recasting Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Steve Rogerson wrote: > > IT's not too bad. At the recent Nocturnal convention in London, he said > that Tony Head had been giving him lessons. Also, I can forgive the odd > Americanism and American twang, because any Brit who'd been over there > that long would have picked up little bits of American accent and > dialogue - that just helps make it more realistic. It always sounded particularly convincing to me. What makes it work isn't just the accent (which sounds fine to my admittedly Scottish ears), it's the appropriate use of words like 'sod' and 'wanker'. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:59:04 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <006001c011f4$677fe020$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: > Neil Faulkner wrote: > > > As for Meyers-Briggs, I classify people into just two types. Those who are > > into M-B pigeonholing, and those with something better to do:) > > Like classifying birds? All the taxonomic groundwork was done years ago. I just enjoy them for what they are. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:01:13 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <006101c011f4$687ba540$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iain Coleman > I think Blake was very good at caring about big, abstract things and not > very good at caring about individual people. Isn't that pretty much what I said? Admittedly less concisely. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:16:49 +-100 From: Louise Rutter To: 'B7 Lysator' Subject: RE: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. Message-ID: <01C011F6.4B728FC0@host213-1-184-9.btinternet.com> Alison wrote: >On the casting of Skinner and Giles to play Blake. They wouldn't be my >choice, but I think the comments reveal an interesting perspective. Would >I be wrong in saying that people who see an association of Blake with >these other characters see him as a predominantly calm and parental >figure,somewhat exasperated by the people he is responsible for? Sorry to blow your theory out of the water, but in my case you would be very wrong indeed. Calm and parental? Hah! Dangerous fanatic more like...I'm wondering if you would have asked that if you'd seen Tony Head in VR5? Louise ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:04:37 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: Re: [B7L] casting, recasting etc. Message-ID: <010301c011f4$801dc160$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louise >Sorry to blow your theory out of the water, but in my case you would be >very wrong indeed. Calm and parental? Hah! Dangerous fanatic more >like...I'm wondering if you would have asked that if you'd seen Tony Head >in VR5? No, I don't know what that is. Ah well, this is where the 'casting to illuminate character' breaks down, because it depends on mutual recognition. I wonder if we could persuade Una to do a Q-study grouping fans in terms of what other TV shows they like? Or what films and books they like? It seems unlikely that likes and dislikes would be distributed completely at random, but you'd need industrial strength statistics to get it all sorted out. Alison -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #244 **************************************