From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #293 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/293 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 293 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] bfi poll [ "Neil Faulkner" ] [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #290 [ Helen Krummenacker ] [B7L] Dorian and Avon [ Helen Krummenacker ] Re: [B7L] Christmas presents [ "Sally Manton" ] [B7L] Servalan's Clones [ "Ellynne G." ] Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones [ Kathryn Andersen ] Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon [ "Marian de Haan" ] Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones [ "Ellynne G." ] Re: [Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon] [ Jacqui Speel To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] bfi poll Message-ID: <002101c03abd$993b3c80$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Emma Peel > > From: Julie Horner > > > Check out the results on > > > http://213.253.19.130/features/tv/100/poll/index.html > > > Neil replied:- > > > > BLOODY HELL!! > > *swoon* > > I love an eloquent man... Oh ghod, not another one... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:17:52 +0200 From: Natasa Tucev To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake as a cultural emissary Message-Id: <200010202017.WAA30872@Tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The British Cultural Centre in Belgrade is open again. I thought it would be an interesting information for the people on the list to know that the library contains some videos featuring Gareth Thomas - so far I've managed to dig out The Naval Treaty and The Children of the Stones, all six episodes. It is a small video library, no more than 200 titles. If it is supposed to be some kind of a cross-section of contemporary British culture, than I'm glad they've chosen GT as one of the representatives. (I'm even more glad that, thanks to my profession, I was able to rent these videos as 'teaching material', for the period of seven days and free of charge.) The library contains some ancient Dr Whos, but alas and much to my grievance, no B7. N. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:40:20 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Food and fantasy Message-ID: <008201c03ade$75ea1640$82614e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison said: > Aga - the kitchen appliance which combines maximum danger and discomfort > with minimum convenience. But it does take your dog out. AND if it was cold outside, can pop your dog into the plate-warming oven. > > On the cooking thread - nobody in B7 has a clue, everyone is brought up with > institutional food. Like being at boarding school, or in the army. This opens up entirely new vistas...like a special section in Avon's address book of places he isn't supposed to know about, for illicit temples of gastronomy. Nobody knows the truffles I've seen, -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:59:32 -0700 From: Mistral To: B7 lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Food and fantasy Message-ID: <39F0C044.AAEFF3AC@centurytel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dana Shilling wrote: > This opens up entirely new vistas...like a special section in Avon's address > book of places he isn't supposed to know about, for illicit temples of > gastronomy. > > Nobody knows the truffles I've seen, Both types, undoubtedly. Mistral ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:31:59 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #290 Message-ID: <39F0F20E.25EA@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yet she seems confident she'll be able to control the 12 (?) clones we see > in Children of Auron. Imagine they had survived - the infighting would > never stop! > > Raja: I'm going to be president. > Travisa: No, I'll be president! > Avona: Mother's going to appoint me. This is SCAREY! This is *my* nickname... and I do make a pretty good Servalan-clone in costume. May I never be reincarnated as such! But I think Servie believes she can control them because they were going to be aged only to infancy, at which point they'd be brought up as good little Federation children. (Just wait til they hit teenage rebellion! Maybe they *would* tear down the empire, just to spite mommy.) Anyhow, she was 'reproducing' through cloning, which seems a bit different from creating an adult copy meant to fool coworkers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:48:04 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Dorian and Avon Message-ID: <39F0F5D4.6CFF@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > True, he's right, but it also suggests something else, that Avon > understands Dorian because of underlying similarities. > > JMHO - well, not even that, just my humble speculation, but maybe this > was an attempt to foreshadow Avon's decline and growing ruthlessness over > S4. Any thoughts? > > Ellynne This made me think: Avon was part of the group at that time. There was no question about him getting absorbed into the gestalt, in Dorian's mind (since the group was still tight enough that he thought Soolin could substitute for Cally as there were no other problems). Avon, the loner by desire, has never actually been a loner in the series. He is always interacting, always drawn to one of his companions. (Gan and Jenna actually revealed and interacted less, or such is my impression) Post-Rescue, he continues the secrecy he created for *good* reasons in Terminal for more trivial missions, hiding parts of his plans. He becomes more of an authoriarian on the bridge. His 3rd season traces of warmth (helping up Dayna in 'Sarcophogas', checking on Cally's emotions after the Children of Auron-Rumours of Death fiascos virtually disappear. On top of that, he breaks Vila's trust in him in Orbit, that being the strongest bond he had left in the group. In Blake, he has lost his place as part of the team-gestalt. He is truely alone. What he thought was the rational thing to be, a loner, is actually emotionally damaging to him. He can no longer determine who to trust; he make the greatest error he has ever made, and he dies with his former friends. Dorian and Avon both placed survival above connections with other people; Dorian went mad in a nearly indiscernable way, Avon had a nervous breakdown. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:11:45 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Christmas presents Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Joanne wrote: I remember it too. Yes you do gave to pretty please? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:16:21 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] bfi poll Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Emma wrote: <*swoon* I love an eloquent man...> Neil, you ought to empthasize more with Avon, don't you think? Being a sweetness-and-light-challenged sex magnet like My Darling ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:27:59 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake as a cultural emissary Message-ID: <20001020.222850.-88783.3.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:17:52 +0200 Natasa Tucev writes: > The British Cultural Centre in Belgrade is open again. I thought it > would be > an interesting information for the people on the list to know that > the > library contains some videos featuring Gareth Thomas - so far I've > managed > to dig out The Naval Treaty and The Children of the Stones, all six > episodes. What? He was in Children of the Stones? I haven't seen that for ages (long before I saw B7). I can't remember the characters clearly. Was he the father? What part did he play? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:26:18 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Servalan's Clones Message-ID: <20001020.222850.-88783.2.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:31:59 -0700 Helen Krummenacker writes: > > Yet she seems confident she'll be able to control the 12 (?) clones > we see > > in Children of Auron. > But I think Servie believes she can control them because they were > going > to be aged only to infancy, at which point they'd be brought up as > good > little Federation children. (Just wait til they hit teenage > rebellion! > Maybe they *would* tear down the empire, just to spite mommy.) > Anyhow, > she was 'reproducing' through cloning, which seems a bit different > from > creating an adult copy meant to fool coworkers. > If I remember right, Blake's clone wasn't a literal clone - not made from his DNA - but made from the Federation's records of Blakes DNA (so long as no whizzo computer fiends had cause to mess with the record, not much practical difference [assuming the records and the Clone masters are as good as advertised]). But the Clone masters could probably have made a double who would pass basic physical comparisons and maybe even more in depth tests without being a genetic copy. So maybe Servalan had a _physical_ double made but whom she believes (rightly of wrongly) doesn't have her genetic tendency to overthrow the current president and appoint herself. Or, given the fact Blake's clone had been imprinted to think according to the Clone masters' philosophy, Servalan may have also have expected them to do one incredibly indepth programming job. Also, given the way the Clone masters seemed to have felt about Servalan, there's no reason to believe they wouldn't have tossed in a few modifications of their own. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:00:16 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones Message-ID: <20001021160016.A8142@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Oct 20, 2000 at 10:26:18PM -0600, Ellynne G. wrote: > > If I remember right, Blake's clone wasn't a literal clone - not made from > his DNA - but made from the Federation's records of Blakes DNA (so long > as no whizzo computer fiends had cause to mess with the record, not much > practical difference [assuming the records and the Clone masters are as > good as advertised]). But the Clone masters could probably have made a > double who would pass basic physical comparisons and maybe even more in > depth tests without being a genetic copy. > > So maybe Servalan had a _physical_ double made but whom she believes > (rightly of wrongly) doesn't have her genetic tendency to overthrow the > current president and appoint herself. > > Or, given the fact Blake's clone had been imprinted to think according to > the Clone masters' philosophy, Servalan may have also have expected them > to do one incredibly indepth programming job. > > Also, given the way the Clone masters seemed to have felt about Servalan, > there's no reason to believe they wouldn't have tossed in a few > modifications of their own. Ooooooh! I like this idea! A "good" Servalan! Instead of an Evil Twin, a Good Twin... Though unfortunately it seems likely that Good Twin is dead... Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Avon: Logic says we're dead. Blake: Logic has never explained what dead is. (Blake's 7: Duel [A8]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | \_.--.*/ | v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 00 04:57:40 PDT From: Jacqui Speel To: "Sally Manton" , blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [Re: [B7L] bfi poll] Message-ID: <20001021115740.19736.qmail@ww190.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Sally Manton" wrote: Emma wrote: <*swoon* I love an eloquent man...> Neil, you ought to empthasize more with Avon, don't you think? Being a = sweetness-and-light-challenged sex magnet like My Darling ... But such persons as Avon are far more 'fun' (and consider - why are there= several Richard III societies and none for Henrys VI & VII etc) ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home= =2Enetscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:17:50 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan's offspring Message-ID: <000c01c03b61$4ff1ff60$5bed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To my: >> Yet she seems confident she'll be able to control the 12 (?) clones we see in Children of Auron. Imagine they had survived - the infighting would never stop! >> >> Raja: I'm going to be president. >> Travisa: No, I'll be president! >> Avona: Mother's going to appoint me. Helen commented: >This is SCAREY! This is *my* nickname... and I do make a pretty good Servalan-clone in costume. May I never be reincarnated as such!< Sorry. No disrespect meant. What kind of names would Servalan choose for her offspring? Would she spend long nights in deep pondering to find something meaningful for each of them or would she go for the Roman tradition and just name them Prima, Secunda, Tertia etc.? >But I think Servie believes she can control them because they were going to be aged only to infancy, at which point they'd be brought up as good little Federation children.< That was what I thought. >(Just wait til they hit teenage rebellion! Maybe they *would* tear down the empire, just to spite mommy.)< I think the infight would start a little earlier, though. (As soon as they can sit up and talk.) And as they would be of equal strength and deviousness, they might well manage to destroy themselves along with their mother's empire. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:36:52 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon Message-ID: <001301c03b6c$6657a2e0$5bed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen wrote: >This made me think: Avon was part of the group at that time. There was no question about him getting absorbed into the gestalt, in Dorian's mind (since the group was still tight enough that he thought Soolin could substitute for Cally as there were no other problems). Avon, the loner by desire, has never actually been a loner in the series.< In Space Fall, he's presented as a loner. Our very first view of him is him sitting in the farthest corner. Although he must be the last in the row we get to see only him, emphasising his isolation. In the recreation/sleeping area he stands aloof, not talking to the other prisoners. (But his reaction to Raiker's clash with Jenna indicates he's aware what's going on.) He moves over to the table without acknowledging the presence of the others. Later when Blake decides to talk him into helping them, Avon sits alone in the flight seats erea. IMO this all serves to establish him as a loner. >He is always interacting, always drawn to one of his companions.< The fact that he can get along with this small group of crewmates doesn't mean that he needs company. I see him as a truly independent soul who can be perfectly happy on his own. >(Gan and Jenna actually revealed and interacted less, or such is my impression)< In Time Squad Gan confides in Jenna about his limiter and she's very sympathetic. (More than we see her to anyone else except Blake.) In that scene they interact more with each other than either of them ever does with Avon, IMHO. Initially, Avon seems very set at keeping his distance. When he gets to know the others better, it looks like he's prepared to let his defences down a bit towards Vila and Cally. He may even begin to enjoy their company - he seems more relaxed with them than with the others. He stays wary of Blake - understandable as, while Vila and Cally are prepared to take him as he is, Blake has the irritating habit of asking more of him than Avon wishes to give. [And Avon always ends up delivering :-)] Avon never seems to develop any feelings for Jenna or Gan. [And one can imagine Jenna never forgiving him for tempting her into abandoning Blake. After that, things never come right between them. :-)] >Post-Rescue, he continues the secrecy he created for *good* reasons in Terminal for more trivial missions, hiding parts of his plans. He becomes more of an authoriarian on the bridge. His 3rd season traces of warmth (helping up Dayna in 'Sarcophogas', checking on Cally's emotions after the Children of Auron-Rumours of Death fiascos virtually disappear.< Circumstances become much more dire in S4, leaving no room for chivalry :-) But there are still instances when he's prepared to take risks for the others, like in 'Assassin' when lets himself be taken prisoner by the slavers instead of allocating that task to Tarrant. >On top of that, he breaks Vila's trust in him in Orbit, that being the strongest bond he had left in the group. > >In Blake, he has lost his place as part of the team-gestalt. He is truely alone. What he thought was the rational thing to be, a loner, is actually emotionally damaging to him.< As I said above, IMO he's always perfectly capable of being alone, and I don't see why that should be emotionally damaging. I don't see Avon as emotionally damaged. [No, not even in S4 :-)] > He can no longer determine who to trust;< Ironic, considering Blake can't either. > he make the greatest error he has ever made, and he dies with his former friends.< We don't know that he dies - or that any of his 'former friends' do :-) And isn't it significant that in 'Blake' Avon's crew is still following him? After the Warlord fiasco they could have decided to drop him somewhere or even to leave him behind on Xenon when they leave with Scorpio, yet they still go along with his plans. >Dorian and Avon both placed survival above connections with other people; Dorian went mad in a nearly indiscernable way, Avon had a nervous breakdown.< We don't know how Dorian was before he discovered that cave. He may have been mad from childhood. All right, I'll stop rambling. I'm now off to the delights of London, so I won't be able to partake in these stimulating discussions for the next week. But I'll catch up :-) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:26:06 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Servalan's Clones Message-ID: <20001021.102607.-106241.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:00:16 +1100 Kathryn Andersen writes: > > Ooooooh! I like this idea! A "good" Servalan! > Instead of an Evil Twin, a Good Twin... > > Though unfortunately it seems likely that Good Twin is dead... > Sudden mental picture of Avon & co. meeting up with the good twin. She explains how it was the toughest decision of her life, but she really didn't feel it was right to help prop up Servalan's regime anymore. She sent out messages saying 'The president's gone, come on in,' to anyone interested in seizing power and took off (she can now see it was a bit naive to send the message to _everyone_ instead of screening for suitability first, but she was kind of new at this). It was a great relief to grow out her hair and stop wearing so much make up all the time (although she does feel it's important to have a good skin care regime). She also enjoys being able wear blue jeans, sensible shoes, and plaid shirts on a dayly basis. Not sure yet what she does for a living, but it probably involves some kind of political advocacy, trying to set right legal wrongs through honest persuasion and appealing to people's better natures. Why do I suspect she met up with Blake before Gauda Prime, leaving him convinced he could no longer tell when people were good guys or just faking it? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 00 14:38:28 PDT From: Jacqui Speel To: Subject: Re: [Re: [B7L] Dorian and Avon] Message-ID: <20001021213828.5877.qmail@www0u.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Marian de Haan" wrote: Helen wrote: >Dorian and Avon both placed survival above connections with other people; Dorian went mad in a nearly indiscernable way, Avon had a nervous breakdown.< We don't know how Dorian was before he discovered that cave. He may have= been mad from childhood. I would have thought Dorian linking up with all those extra personalities= would create problems - not quite 'split personality' but something of th= at nature. Jacqui ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home= =2Enetscape.com/webmail -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #293 **************************************