From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #16 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/16 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #314 Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #303 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:20:35 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #314 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:02:51 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #314 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 314 > > Today's Topics: > Re: [B7L] UNCUT > Re: [B7L] UNCUT > [B7L] Re: Christmas > Re: [B7L] 'Duel'... > [B7L] Redemption > Re: [B7L] 'Duel'... > Re: [B7L] UNCUT > Re: [B7L] UNCUT > [B7L] Clive James on TV > [B7L] Re: Clive James on TV > [B7L] Clive Jqmes > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:25:04 +1000 > From: "Taina Nieminen" > To: "B7" > Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT > Message-ID: <001001be2cbb$6ae2af60$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >Looking at mt collection of Blakes 7 vidos, I see that a most of the > >videos say "Contains 2 complete unedited episodes". Can anyone tell me > >exactly which episodes in the series have been edited and what exactly > >has been removed from them? > > > >Chris. > > > Some videos were released with three episodes on each tape, edited to fit > three episodes into two hours. > > Taina > =========================== > Is there a mind/body problem? > And if so, which is it better to have? > - Woody Allen > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:39:02 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: "Julia Jones" , > > Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT > Message-Id: <199812211050.KAA20854@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ---------- > > From: Julia Jones > > The tape of Rescue is allegedly uncut, but in fact is different to the > > broadcast version. > > Yeah, but it's an alternate version rather than strictly an edited one, so > that's why they can call it uncut. > > I wonder if the rerelease will be the broadcast version? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:25:41 GMT > From: mjsmith@tcd.ie (Murray ) > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: Christmas > Message-Id: <199812211325.NAA19224@dux1.tcd.ie> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > To all my fellow Space Citizens, > > Due to Christmas preparations and Christmas itself, I will be > 'offline' as regards my email; so I would like to wish you all a Merry > Christmas and a Happy New Year. > > Yours, > > Murray > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:12:33 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Duel'... > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Mon 21 Dec, Penny Dreadful wrote: > > >I never thought Servalan surprised him that much. They recognised > > >one another's ruthless streak. > > > > Yes, but his ruthlessness is generally of the neat-and-tidy kind, > > efficiency. Like (arguably) a machine (I swear I will at some future > > point construct a coherent and seamless argument vis a vis Travis's > > machineliness). Servalan's desires, and her schemes, are murkier, much > > more complex. So he identifies with her ruthlessness, but this doesn't > > mean he can predict her behaviour. > > That's true. Her scheming is more complicated than his. I think Travis was a > straightforward man in that respect at least. I think he would look for a > direct solution to a problem. Having said that, was it him or Servalan who came > up with the virus idea in 'Project Avalon'? I got the impression that the > scheme was Travis's. > > > >I think Travis lost his ability to read Servalan as time went by. He became > > >more fanatic and inward looking and she respected him less. > > > > She bent and bashed her toy until it broke, and then it wasn't fun to > > play with any more. How seasonally apropos. > > Yes, she strained him further and further. She took his loyalty to the system > and bent it further and further as he became more and more aware of how much she > sought her own power. 'Orac' is a classic example where Servalan was actually > trying to defraud the Federation. Then there were the occasions where Travis > could have killed Blake if Servalan hadn't prevented him because of the danger > to her own life. I think Travis disapproved of her for that, but loyalty to the > chain of command was deeply ingrained into him. > > Do you think Travis would have held his own life in such high regard? I think > he would have been willing to die to kill Blake (he was certainly willing to do > it in 'Gambit'.) Would he have been willing to die if he thought his death > would serve the Federation as a whole? (I'm talking about season 1 Travis here, > before his loyalties became stretched to breaking point) > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:11:57 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > cc: Space City > Subject: [B7L] Redemption > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > We lost Blake. We gained Travis! > > > Brian Croucher will be coming to Redemption. He'll be there for all three days > (work permitting, of course). > > We're looking into the possibility of getting Stephen Greif for a day as well, > but nothing is confirmed there yet. > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:29:44 EST > From: Tigerm1019@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Duel'... > Message-ID: <5e1892aa.367ea1a8@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-21 13:36:32 EST, Judith wrote: > > << Do you think Travis would have held his own life in such high regard? I > think > he would have been willing to die to kill Blake (he was certainly willing to > do > it in 'Gambit'.) Would he have been willing to die if he thought his death > would serve the Federation as a whole? (I'm talking about season 1 Travis > here, > before his loyalties became stretched to breaking point) > >> > > I think the first season Travis would have sacrificed his life if he thought > it would benefit the Federation. I also think he was willing to sacrifice > others lives as well and became more and more ticked at Servalan because her > motives were so often selfish. > > Tiger M > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:19:31 +0000 > From: Julia Jones > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT > Message-ID: > > In message <199812211050.KAA20854@gnasher.sol.co.uk>, Dangermouse > writes > >> From: Julia Jones > >> The tape of Rescue is allegedly uncut, but in fact is different to the > >> broadcast version. > > > >Yeah, but it's an alternate version rather than strictly an edited one, so > >that's why they can call it uncut. > > I'd call removing two significant scenes cutting rather than an > alternative version. All right, so the scenes in question are about two > seconds long, but they're important in temrs of character development. > > > >I wonder if the rerelease will be the broadcast version? > > > Fat bloody chance. > -- > Julia Jones > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:40:58 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] UNCUT > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Mon 21 Dec, Taina Nieminen wrote: > > >Looking at mt collection of Blakes 7 vidos, I see that a most of the > > >videos say "Contains 2 complete unedited episodes". Can anyone tell me > > >exactly which episodes in the series have been edited and what exactly > > >has been removed from them? > > > > > >Chris. > > > > > > Some videos were released with three episodes on each tape, edited to fit > > three episodes into two hours. > > Those were the infamous compilation tapes which are thankfully no longer > available. > > As far as I know, the slight edit to the fight scene in Spacefall (I think they > took out a shot of Avon clapping his hands over someone's ears) and the editing > changes to 'Rescue' are the only changes to the tapes. > > Has anyone thought of writing to Fabulous Films and asking them to use the aired > version of 'Rescue' when they get to that stage in the releases? > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:12:00 -0500 > From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> > To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" , > Space City > Subject: [B7L] Clive James on TV > Message-ID: <199812211912_MC2-646A-8879@compuserve.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Well, that wasn't as bad as it might have been. We saw Sally. We saw > Jackie. We didn't see Brian the Snail (maybe Clive James decided Jarvik > was an even sillier monster). He wasn't nearly as rude about Blake's 7 as > he was on paper in 1980. And we got several seconds of Moonbase Three! I > want more! > > The Dalek man was quite nice, too. > > Harriet > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:00:08 PST > From: "Joanne MacQueen" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: Clive James on TV > Message-ID: <19981222010009.770.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Harriet said: > We didn't see Brian the Snail > > Definitely need an explanation here. Seeing as you mentioned Jarvik, > could it be that the reference is to the kairopan gobbler in "Harvest of > Kairos"? (ARGH! Great gaps in my B7 education are showing!) > > >He wasn't nearly as rude about Blake's 7 as he was on paper in >1980. > > Maybe he's a little less enamoured of "Star Trek" these days - one of > his reviews suggested that series was his preferred choice of trashy > television. Then again, I have the strong impression that all science > fiction on television came under the heading of "trashy television", so > far as he was concerned while reviewing television. > > Regards > Joanne > > It's biliousness as usual in my corner of the kitchen > --The Whitlams, "You Sound Like Louis Burdett" > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:53:04 -0000 > From: "Taylor, Steve [CCS]" > To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" > Subject: [B7L] Clive Jqmes > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain > > Well - what a lot of publicity - and a fair few cheap shots. > > Sally and Jacqueline in full flow - criticising the development of Jenna > (agreed) and Servalan's costumes (Shirley Bassey - JP). > > Still - not that bad - and I actually liked the 'clow fighting' concept. > > SteveT > who unsubed yesterday for the hols but had to come back for this > > Some interesting comments on Dr Who as well > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #314 > ************************************** > Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:19:10 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #303 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:02:21 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #303 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 303 > > Today's Topics: > Re: [B7L] Gotcha all. > [B7L] Chain snowballs. > [B7L] In laws and out laws... > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] Re: Gotcha all > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] A New Character > RE: [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] Manchester Meet, Saturday December 12 > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Re: [B7L] A New Character > Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > [B7L] "Good and evil, there never is one without the other" > Tiresome Ethics (was Re: [B7L] A New Character) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:08:57 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: "Calle Dybedahl" , > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gotcha all. > Message-Id: <199812080020.AAA09085@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ---------- > > From: Calle Dybedahl > > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > > Subject: Re: [B7L] Gotcha all. > > Date: 06 December 1998 19:08 > > > > Spam and chain-letter-type things are not welcome on this list. Please > > don't do that again. > > Well, it wasn't either- just trying to inject a little festive fun. > > Sorry that humour doesn't seem to be so welcome. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 02:00:38 GMT > From: dixonm@access.mountain.net (Meredith Dixon) > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Chain snowballs. > Message-ID: <366c872b.165787721@cyberplanet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I just saw Dangermouse's rejoinder to Calle -- that the Internet > snowball he sent was "not a chain letter." It most certainly > *is* a chain letter; I've seen those confounded snowballs all > over the net, and I'm glad Calle spoke up in response. > > I didn't find the "Internet snowball fight" particularly funny > the first time -- several weeks ago, by the way -- that I received > a posting, and the joke definitely hasn't improved with age. > > Thanks, Calle! > > Meredith Dixon > dixonm@access.mountain.net > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:55:03 -0800 > From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com (Penny L Kjelgaard) > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] In laws and out laws... > Message-ID: <19981207.190233.-217145.0.penny_kjelgaard@juno.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > My darling 7 year old (remember when she was 5?) daughter has given me > another memorable exchange. Missy was practicing getting up with her > hands joined behind her back (hence the following conversation,) and of > course Travis entered her mind. > > Missy: Mamma, Servalan was chasing both Blake and Travis...and for no > good reason! > Mamma: She had a very good reason. They were both OUTLAWS. > Missy: And what was she...and INLAW? > > > > Peace, > Penny > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:02:28 EST > From: LordRab@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <10c7ee97.366cc0f4@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-12-07 09:21:38 EST, you write: > > << Kerr Avon) : > > "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others" > >> > > Nice line! Though the episode of Voyager you mention is one I actually > almost liked. They may have chosen the "PC" solution, but I didn't get the > feel that anyone was happy with the outcome. > So what would the B7 folks have done? Avon, as you pointed, probably would > have kept the data. What of the others? Deborah Rose >> > > > I "almost" liked that episode myself ! I would have prefered a bit more > debate about the ethics of using Cardasian medical data obtained from gruesome > experiments on their prisoners. Although to their credit, the Star Trek > universe does not rely over heavily on rock 'em sock 'em fight scenes ( but > look out for Data's "lock and load" scene from the upcoming movie) they still > manage to water down the salient points when they dare to be different. > > I don't think that we can judge the morals and ethics of other people from > other times by contemporary standards. Rather than say what I think the B7 > folks would have done I'll say what I would have had them do ( After all, they > are fictional characters and at the mercy of writers, heh heh ). In that > future, people would have accepted that most of our medical data has usually > been obtained from experimenting on live prisoners, albeit creatures slightly > lower on the food chain than us, and that even delicious Orange Tang probably > came at higher price than we'll ever know. ( for all you Brits, Tang powder > was developed by NASA as an artificial orange juice substitute for Astronauts > in their top secret laboratories and then put on the market on the shelf next > to the Spam) > > Will the future be more humane? Will humans find a substitute for lab mice? > The B7 universe is not quite the Age of Enlightenment Part 2, but Star Trek's > future humans are knockin' on Utopias door ! > Yikes ! Will Utopia be that smarmy? Blake and crew would keep the data without > a second thought and move on to some planet for a holiday only to find that > the planet is actually the pet asteroid of an inter galactic entity from the > WalMartian Cluster and that the delectible fruits and berries that they have > been eating are really.......... > > Well, anyway, I am reminded of a scene from 'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" > when Ford Prefect and Co. are dining at the Restaurant at the End of the > Universe, and is revolted by the creature who offers up it's own succulent > shanks as the main course. > One man's stew is another man's best friend. > > > Cheers, > Rab > > "If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?" > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:19:46 -0000 > From: "Alison Page" > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-Id: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Rab said - > > > Will the future be more humane? Will humans find a substitute for lab > mice? > > The B7 universe is not quite the Age of Enlightenment Part 2, but Star > Trek's > > future humans are knockin' on Utopias door ! > > > I've been thinking lately about what they call the 'Whig view of history' > The rough idea is that Whig's see history as progress ('things can only get > better') they believe in reason and meritocracy. The contrast is with > 'Tories' who see history as retreat, are pessimistic about reason, and > believe in established power relations. > > The reason I've been thinking about this is that I think the so-called > left/liberal governments we have at present in places like the USA, the UK, > Germany etc. are actually Whig governments. I think this makes them easier > to understand, rather than thinking about left and right. > > Anyway, that aside, I think Star Trek is Whig SF. Enlightenment, > redemption, science, progress. I'm not knocking it, just mentioning it. > > The glib thing to say would be that B7 is Tory SF. However I really don't > think it is, because it is so negative about the weaknesses and smugness of > established powers, and relatively positive about the idea of smashing them > up. Anyway, unlike Penny I think this makes the B7 writers freer than the > ST writers, because while there aren't any 'goodies' in B7, there aren't > any (real) baddies in ST. In line with the Whig view there are just people > who haven't yet become enlightened by progress. > > Alison > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:50:54 -0500 > From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> > To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" > Subject: [B7L] Re: Gotcha all > Message-ID: <199812080851_MC2-62D6-C871@compuserve.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Oh... when I saw a sort of circle and the word "squish" I assumed that > Dangermouse had finally come up with a picture of the alleged extra-marital > shagging. I must have spent too much time on Space City, I suppose. > > Harriet > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:10:32 -0800 > From: Pat Patera > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <366C98A8.6BF2@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > LordRab@aol.com wrote: > > All I could think of was a line from my favorite Blake's 7 character > > (surprise!!!! It's Kerr Avon): > > "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others" > > Hail Lord Rab! > and welcome to the list. > Happily, none of the B7 characters are overly zealous when it comes to > morals - of anyone. This Federated space is a grey, grey place. But > that's what makes the "danger" real. The potential for harm. Yes, in > this series people can get killed. And, happily, do! The Trek franchise > has shown us how dull it is when we know that nobody (except nameless > red shirts) will ever suffer injury or death. Or even wounded pride. If > there is so much as a minor disagreement, they will always all "make > nice" by episode end. > > Gan steps forward now and again, as he did in Shadow, to take a moral > stand. And look how tiresome it made him. > > I love the self-doubt these characters deal with. At times I can > empathize with all of them, for they personify basic human failings: > Blake wondering if he's throwing his life away on a pipe dream. Avon > knowing that nobody likes him cuz he's such a conceited egghead. Vila's > laziness and tendencies toward imbibing controlled substances. Cally's > loneliness. Jenna's jealousy and unrequited love. Gan's stupidity. > Tarrant's immaturity. Soolin's self-absorbtion. Dayna? hmmmm no, I don't > share her blood lust. Tho I wish I did, cuz it looks like such fun! :-) > > I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang perfect > and self-confident. Priggish Picard most of all. Lt. Barkley is the only > one who engenders any sympathy from the viewers. And he is such a sad > case that he's nearly a cartoon. > > re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the > Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research > on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or > added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > > "Give me ambiguity or give me something else" > hahahaha > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:12:42 -0600 > From: "Lorna B." > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-Id: <199812081604.KAA25678@pemberton.magnolia.net> > > Pat P said: > > >re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the > >Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research > >on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or > >added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on > posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9 > episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot > points in advance. > > Lorna B. > "Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!" > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:25:37 -0000 > From: "Gregory Graham" > To: > Subject: RE: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <000d01be22c7$63b95840$82ba46c2@barny.ascada.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > As far as I know this knowledge along with the information on rocketry from > the V2(orig R4?) program is still available. Since the Apollo program was > based on V2 technology, where would sci-fi hopes and dreams be without > ex-nazi scientists? Mind you if you would like to know about unethical > research, ask the Koreans about Japanese scientists. Apparently they make > Nazi, and Federation, scientists look positively wet. > > Greg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pussnboots@geocities.com [mailto:pussnboots@geocities.com] > Sent: 08 December 1998 03:11 > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > > > > re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the > Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research > on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or > added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > > "Give me ambiguity or give me something else" > hahahaha > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:32:50 -0500 > From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> > To: "INTERNET:space-city@world.std.com" , > "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" > Subject: [B7L] Manchester Meet, Saturday December 12 > Message-ID: <199812081333_MC2-62EA-7FBB@compuserve.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Mainly to celebrate the arrival of Nicola Collie, well-known New Zealand > Space Citizen and Servalan lookalike, on England's shores, a few of the B7 > fans in the Manchester area are planning to get together on the > afternoon/evening of Saturday, December 12. If any lurkers or people we > have unforgiveably forgotten to tell about it are interested, the plan is > to gather at the Fab Cafe round about three o'clock, and eventually go for > a curry in Rusholme. > > The Fab Cafe is (allegedly, I haven't been there yet) at 111 Portland > Street (that's the road from Piccadilly Gardens to Oxford Street, if you're > as vague as me about names). If you're coming from Piccadilly, it is said > to be on the left-hand side, somewhere between Princess Street and Oxford > Street. So if you're coming from Oxford Street, conversely, it's quite > soon on the right. There should be a free-standing bill board thing on the > pavement outside. > > Anyone wanting to check with me for details email > 101637.2064@compuserve.com. > > Harriet > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 13:29:28 PST > From: "Penny Dreadful" > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <19981208212929.29590.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Alison said: > > >Anyway, unlike Penny I think this makes the B7 writers freer than the > >ST writers, because while there aren't any 'goodies' in B7, there > aren't > >any (real) baddies in ST. In line with the Whig view there are just > people > >who haven't yet become enlightened by progress. > > > Hey, are you calling me a Trekkie? Grr! Lazeron-destructors at dawn! > What I *meant* was that it's very difficult to have Good triumph over > Evil on a weekly basis in a universe where there *is* no Good. Much > like our own (in my humbly cynical opinion). > > I don't *need* Good to triumph over Evil in order to feel good drama > has been perpetrated. But I know lots of people who do, and they watch > Star Trek and the Money Keeps Rolling In. > > -- Penny "I am not Spock" Dreadful > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 13:33:58 PST > From: "Edith Spencer" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <19981208213358.21033.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Pat had responded to Lord Rab: > > I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang perfect > and self-confident. Priggish Picard most of all. Lt. Barkley is the only > one who engenders any sympathy from the viewers. And he is such a sad > case that he's nearly a cartoon. > > All Right then, > I must admit, I do like Picard, priggish and all (smile) First, he is > a Frenchman with a British accent (smirk)and because he's unashamedly > bald. ( ha- hee). And of I identify with Barkely- nervous, antisocial, > smart and cute. Aww... > But I like the B7 series because of the not-so-clean characters and > (what seems to me at least) the extrapolation of the British Empire. I > find the politics and manuvering quite fascinating indeed. However, I > don't think that the two series can be compared- too diametric. But I > think there can justifiable criticism of both. > Edith > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:26:30 EST > From: LordRab@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Fwd: [B7L] A New Character > Message-ID: <85c41ce6.366db5a6@aol.com> > Content-type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="part0_913159591_boundary" > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > --part0_913159591_boundary > Content-ID: <0_913159591@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > In a message dated 98-12-08 11:15:51 EST, msdelta@magnolia.net writes: > > > > >I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on > >posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9 > >episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot > >points in advance. > > Good Point Lorna...sorry, but I thought it was a rerun, I watch the Star Trek > stuff so rarely that I just didn't consider it night be a new episode. I hope > we didn't ruin the story for you more than the writers already have. > > > > >Lorna B. > >"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!" > > > Yum! > Regards, Rab > > "I practice safe eating, I only eat condoments" > > --part0_913159591_boundary > Content-ID: <0_913159591@inet_out.mail.magnolia.net.2> > Content-type: message/rfc822 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Content-disposition: inline > > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by > air-zb03.mail.aol.com (v53.20) with SMTP; Tue, 08 Dec 1998 11:15:51 > -0500 > Received: from samantha.lysator.liu.se (samantha.lysator.liu.se > [130.236.254.202]) > by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with ESMTP id LAA23265; > Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:15:40 -0500 (EST) > Received: (from list@localhost) > by samantha.lysator.liu.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02601; > Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:11:29 +0100 (MET) > Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:11:29 +0100 (MET) > X-Authentication-Warning: samantha.lysator.liu.se: list set sender to > blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se using -f > Message-Id: <199812081604.KAA25678@pemberton.magnolia.net> > From: "Lorna B." > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] A New Character > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:12:42 -0600 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 > Resent-Message-ID: <"nHyiMB.A.lo.v-Ub2"@samantha.lysator.liu.se> > Resent-From: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/15473 > X-Loop: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: blakes7-request@lysator.liu.se > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Pat P said: > > >re: destroying the medical records obtained "under duress" by the > >Cardassian doctors on Voyager. What did the Allies do with Nazi research > >on human endurance obtained during WWII? Was this also destroyed, or > >added to the body of Western knowledge? Was it the right decision? > > I would like to ask that people put spoiler space or some sort of warning on > posts like these. Not everyone has ready access to the new Voyager or DS9 > episodes and would like a chance to enjoy them without knowing the plot > points in advance. > > Lorna B. > "Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!" > > > > > --part0_913159591_boundary-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 15:56:13 PST > From: "Rob Clother" > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] "Good and evil, there never is one without the other" > Message-ID: <19981208235613.24905.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Penny "I am not Spock" Dreadful: > > >I don't *need* Good to triumph over Evil in order to feel good drama > >has been perpetrated. But I know lots of people who do, and they > >watch Star Trek and the Money Keeps Rolling In. > > I know B7 is supposed to be about shades of grey, but some characters > are less grey than others. Servalan's character and motives were > explored in some episodes, but one could make a case for saying she was > just a greedy, evil gangster. And then the Federation itself was never > portrayed as anything but evil. > > Conversely, there were some characters who could genuinely have been > cast as "good". Gan is the obvious choice; another example might be, on > account of their devotion to the "Rule of Life", the clonemasters. > > There were examples of good and evil in B7 -- of that I'm sure. It's > just that they weren't plastered all over every plot. For me, the > biggest difference between Star Trek and B7 is that I've never watched > an episode of ST and come away from it wishing the events I'd just > witnessed hadn't happened. [I may come away from an episode of ST > wishing it had never been filmed in the first place, but that's just > me...] > > Cheers, > -- Rob > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:09:15 +1100 > From: Kathryn Andersen > To: "Blake's 7 list" > Subject: Tiresome Ethics (was Re: [B7L] A New Character) > Message-ID: <19981209080915.26407@welkin.apana.org.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Still haven't caught up on months of List stuff, gave up and started > reading recent postings, and saw: > > On Mon, Dec 07, 1998 at 07:10:32PM -0800, Pat Patera wrote: > > LordRab@aol.com wrote: > > > All I could think of was a line from my favorite Blake's 7 character > > > (surprise!!!! It's Kerr Avon): > > > "I rarely comment on the Ethics of others" > > > Gan steps forward now and again, as he did in Shadow, to take a moral > > stand. And look how tiresome it made him. > > Oi! No fair. Did not! (Kathryn jumps up and down) > Blake takes a moral stand (the Federation is evil, I will destroy it) > and he is not tiresome, yet when Gan takes a moral stand, he is? > *If* it were true that Gan was tiresome, then it must be some other > factor, rather than "taking a moral stand" that makes him so. > A lack of anger, perhaps. Or a lack of charisma. But not the moral > stand itself. > > Mind you, Gan isn't tiresome anyway. Unless you think Cally is > tiresome too? She was rather fond of the moral stand herself. > > > I love the self-doubt these characters deal with. At times I can > > empathize with all of them, for they personify basic human failings: > > Blake wondering if he's throwing his life away on a pipe dream. Avon > > knowing that nobody likes him cuz he's such a conceited egghead. Vila's > > laziness and tendencies toward imbibing controlled substances. Cally's > > loneliness. Jenna's jealousy and unrequited love. Gan's stupidity. > > Tarrant's immaturity. Soolin's self-absorbtion. Dayna? hmmmm no, I don't > > share her blood lust. Tho I wish I did, cuz it looks like such fun! :-) > > Gan isn't stupid. So there. Just because Avon's a genious doesn't > make Gan stupid. > > (There, Judith, do I get my oak leaves now? ) > > > I resent and dislike the Trek characters cuz they are so dang perfect > > and self-confident. Priggish Picard most of all. Lt. Barkley is the only > > one who engenders any sympathy from the viewers. And he is such a sad > > case that he's nearly a cartoon. > > I have to toss in this perfect quote I found on the net when TNG was > but a youngster -- > "I think that (one of) TNG's problems is that it considers lacking action, > humor and character interplay to be interchangable with cerebral (just like > it often considers civility and lack of conflict interchangable with > friendship)." > - Atsushi Kanamori on rec.arts.startrek, 7 July 1991 > > -- > _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen > / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat > \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" > v | > ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere > Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #303 > ************************************** > Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #16 *************************************