From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #297 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/297 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 297 Today's Topics: [B7L] hay fever Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience [B7L] sqash ladder Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Fandom Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person [B7L] Real Fan? Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296 [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296 [B7L] Curt Holland short story Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:59:25 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] hay fever Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 17 Oct, Neil Faulkner wrote: > Una wrote: > >Well, for those of us with hayfever, this is a very serious point. The > >outdoors is just plain nasty and horrid. Long may I live in built-up areas > >covered in tarmac. > > That sounds like a very good idea, Una. Actually, city dwellers often get worse hay fever. The pollution levels often increse pollen sensitivity. I had a friend at Uni who was fine until he went back to London in the holidays. In East Anglia he was usually fine. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:04:41 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience Message-ID: <000601bf192f$c3c6b480$fb418cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn wrote: >Of course, then obedience can become a habit, and it usually is. >Maybe that's what authority is - the *habit* of obedience. In all the posts on this thread, I'm surprised that no one's cited that famous experiment where subjects were duped into believing they were delivering electric shocks on an unseen person. Most of them carried on pressing the button, for all their protests at the screams of pain they thought they were eliciting. Some of them (all subjects were men) even broke down in tears, but still continued to apply what they believed were higher and higher voltages when ordered to. I've also heard of a follow-up experiment where another group (all women) were required to deliver real electric shocks to an equally real puppy. I think the theory was that women would be more likely to disobey orders if doing so could be seen to save an innocent animal from needless suffering. Apparently not. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:08:24 +0100 From: Steve Rogerson To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] sqash ladder Message-ID: <380AC767.5A270529@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit City at the Edge.. should be above The Web. City is Vila's best episode and he gets laid. Colin Baker as Bayban is excellent. We see the true nasty side of Tarrant (how anyone can like him after that beats me). As to The Web, Decimas, need I say more? -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Be inconsistent, but not all the time ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:07:03 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder Message-ID: <047601bf193f$c9702ff0$0d01a8c0@hedge> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Ellis wrote: >PowerPlay >Animals OK, just for the joy of knowing that it would put 'Animals' in the top three of a list of B7 episodes (no matter how temporarily). 'Animals' is better than 'Powerplay'. Um. Argument... Tricky, considering 'Powerplay' is one of my favourites. OK: 'Powerplay'; filler; just there to introduce a new character; irritating bit where they say, 'There could be someone on the ship that neither we nor they know about!' and then do nothing to develop this idea. 'Animals': I refer you to the website I constructed earlier. Andrew also wrote: > Space Fall > Blake 'Blake' should go above 'Space Fall'. 'Blake' is possibly the best episode of the show. 'Space Fall' is great, but 'Blake' is something very, very special. OK - now can I argue that 'Space Fall' should go below 'Animals'? No. Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:01:45 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience Message-ID: <047501bf193f$c900a540$0d01a8c0@hedge> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: > Kathryn wrote: > >Of course, then obedience can become a habit, and it usually is. > >Maybe that's what authority is - the *habit* of obedience. > > In all the posts on this thread, I'm surprised that no one's cited that > famous experiment where subjects were duped into believing they were > delivering electric shocks on an unseen person. Most of them carried on > pressing the button, for all their protests at the screams of pain they > thought they were eliciting. Some of them (all subjects were men) even > broke down in tears, but still continued to apply what they believed were > higher and higher voltages when ordered to. > > I've also heard of a follow-up experiment where another group (all women) > were required to deliver real electric shocks to an equally real puppy. I > think the theory was that women would be more likely to disobey orders if > doing so could be seen to save an innocent animal from needless suffering. Revolting experiments. One of those occasions when you wonder whether permission to conduct should really have been given by the ethics committee. Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:57:06 +1000 From: Kate To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder Message-ID: <380AEEF2.ACCE32C3@crosswinds.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Harvest of Kairos > Aftermath Harvest goes below Aftermath. Why? Well, have a look at the giant creature of Kairos, the notion of resin-like kairopan, Jarvik, Sopron, Cally seeing her parents in the sopron, Jarvik's attitude and Servalan's dramatics. Need I say more? Of course, one can say what Aftermath offers us. Dayna, an insight into Servalan, *that* kiss, sand, horses [yes I'm a horse-nut], Orac covered in seaweed. That *other* kiss. Anyone not convinced? Katrina. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:48:51 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <199910180949_MC2-8970-46DB@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Neil wrote: >So something like 20 per cent of the > population saw at least one episode. Hellen, could you tell us about the Bulgarian experience again (aside to others: Hellen visited us recently and told us that virtually the entire Bulgarian population saw Blake's 7 because it was on the only TV channel which broadcast in the evening - but I've probably got that muddled, so I'd like her more accurate account!) Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:54:53 PDT From: "Hellen Paskaleva" To: 101637.2064@compuserve.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <19991018145454.25429.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Harriet wrote: >Neil wrote: > >So something like 20 per cent of the > > population saw at least one episode. > >Hellen, could you tell us about the Bulgarian experience again (aside to >others: Hellen visited us recently and told us that virtually the entire >Bulgarian population saw Blake's 7 because it was on the only TV channel... Absolutely correct. Virtually everyone have seen Blake's 7 in Bulgaria (1984/85), because, firstly, it was *incredibly* wonderful show, and secondly, there was nothing other to be watched in the evenings. ;-) We even have had a merchandise - pictures, posters (pirate, most probably), in the time when that sort of bussiness was totally undeveloped and even forbidden (because it was unwise to like something *over* the Secretary General and the brothership Soviet Union...). No joke - it was official police. Channel One broadcasted it in the prime time (8.30-9.30pm) and, according to the enqire, which I've made 2 years later, 98% of the population had watched it. 95% had enjoyed it and 3% had hated it. Now the picture is almost the same - about 6 from every 10 questioned people answered, that B7 had been their favorite show and every 9 from 10 have memorised it (up to the names of the heroes). In fact, the most frequent answer, I've got, was "Aahhh, yeah, Blake's 7! That fantastic movie from my youth! And there was one very handsome guy, that one with the computers, what was his name ... Avon!" ... Here usually I am starting to spit snakes and lizards (bulgarian expression for anger). ;-) Hellen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:49:18 -0700 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <7SjZ8fA+F0C4Ewve@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <19991018145454.25429.qmail@hotmail.com>, Hellen Paskaleva writes >Absolutely correct. Virtually everyone have seen Blake's 7 in Bulgaria >(1984/85), because, firstly, it was *incredibly* wonderful show, and >secondly, there was nothing other to be watched in the evenings. ;-) We even >have had a merchandise - pictures, posters (pirate, most probably), in the >time when that sort of bussiness was totally undeveloped and even forbidden >(because it was unwise to like something *over* the Secretary General and >the brothership Soviet Union...). No joke - it was official police. Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need to resist such? What *did* they think it was about? -- Julia Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:38:34 -0700 From: "Kinkade, Carol A" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Subject: Fandom Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" << In America, most people have never even heard of it-including many people who consider themselves fans of science fiction. >> Last year a former lyst member, Candace Ma, got a personalized license plate saying KERRAVN (she tried for BLAKES7, but it was already taken). In the eleven months that she's had the license plate, she's met 108 B7 fans who have approached her asking her if the plate referred to Blake's 7. Amazingly, none of these people were aware of any B7 fannishness. Counting the 28 fans we already had in our little group, that gives us a sizeable little gathering here in our little corner of America. Blake's 7 fandom is here, it's just very silent. Carol K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:57:30 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <053301bf198a$f258cb70$0d01a8c0@hedge> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia wrote: > Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time > television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need > to resist such? Isn't that just fantastic? > What *did* they think it was about? Perhaps it was seen as a comment on fascism rather than communism (Terry Nation tended to obsess about the Nazis a bit). Or perhaps the censors thought the Federation was positively portrayed. That was all just *fascinating*, Hellen. Una ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:37:44 +0100 (BST) From: Murray Smith To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Julia wrote: > >> Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time >> television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need >> to resist such? > >Isn't that just fantastic? > > >> What *did* they think it was about? > >Perhaps it was seen as a comment on fascism rather than communism (Terry >Nation tended to obsess about the Nazis a bit). Or perhaps the censors >thought the Federation was positively portrayed. > >>That was all just *fascinating*, Hellen. Yes, what Hellen told us was interesting. I recall that the Chinese authorities allowed "1984" to be published, thinking that it was an anti-Soviet book. Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:17:44 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <000601bf1998$13a0ec60$8a1bac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: >Hm. If Horizon has only 1700 members out of all the millions who >watched B7, surely that's not the bulk of UK fandom, then. Maybe >there are more non-joiners than joiners. I think its reasonable to suppose that anyone sufficiently interested in the series to venture forth into fandom would stick with the series after having first encountered it. Therefore the viewing figures for the 4th Season would be the most relevant - they would include newcomers to the show as well as those who had got into it earlier on. 4th Season viewing figures were a fairly consistent 8-9 million (first time around - I don't know what the repeats got). Horizon membership peaked at something over 2000. So about one viewer in 4-5000 went on to join the club. That sounds pretty credible to me. Horizon NL #32 gives figures for the UK Gold repeats with a combined audience (it was shown twice a week) of 130,000, but I'm not sure how significant that is because not everyone had satellite TV at that time (as many still don't). >And I don't, strictly speaking, >mean Dormice. There are plenty of people who might be passionate >about a topic and still not see a fanclub as having anything to offer >them. Particularly if it doesn't put out a newsletter more often than >every couple of years. 1997? I'm rather glad I didn't waste my money. That was the last newsletter I got, when my membership expired. There's been others since. Does anyone know how well the videos sold? Do we count someone who simply buys the videos and does nothing else but watch them alone at home as a 'real fan'? I'm not trying to be elitist about this ('Hah! I'm a Real Fan and you're not, nyaah!') but should there be a cut-off point somewhere? And if so, who defines it? My set of tapes went through three or four people, whose level of interest doesn't go beyond expressing a vague like or dislike of particular episodes or certain characters. No analysis, no speculation, certainly no pressing urge to write or read LOCs, articles or stories. Or to join a club or attend a con, for that matter. The videos obviously sold well enough to be marketable, but then the same wasn't true of the short-lived posterzine. From what I gather, merchandise companies are generally not interested in B7 licenses because they know the product won't sell. That suggests that whilst there is (or was) sufficient interest in the source material (videos of the original episodes), that is less true of spin-off material (the province of fandom). If so, then the number of people who are passionate (to use your own word) enough about B7 to want to do more than simply watch the source material is actually pretty small. (In fact I hope it is and remains so, since I don't like the idea of B7 fandom being commercialised in the way that ST has. Fandom's vigour lies in the diversity of opinions within it, whereas commercialisation will bland out to maximise sales.) What about those people who like the show but don't feel remotely 'passionate' about it? Sales figures for the BBC radio plays would also be useful information, bearing in mind that some naughty people will have simply taped it off-air (as I would have done if I hadn't been at work). >OTOH, the basic assumption I've seen in posts by several >persons that the *number* of fans serviced by Horizon is by >itself an indicator of Horizon's importance to fandom shouldn't >be allowed to go unexamined. > >A hub is a centre of *activity*. And if I understand the definition, >it would be the Hatters who write and publish fanfiction, run the >clubs, organize the cons and other fan activities, etc. So the >Hatters would be those who keep fandom running, wouldn't they? >And without them, active fandom would seem to be in danger of >dying out. > >My thought, then, would be that the hub of fandom _might_ be where >there is the highest concentration of Hatters, and where 'Hatterdom' >is best promoted. And nowadays that may very well be online, i.e. >the ratio of Hatters to Dormice higher on the net than in Horizon, >coupled with the fact that the ease and speed of e-mail versus >Horizon's newsletters or even snail-mail provides more stimulation >and possibly turns more Dormice into Hatters. An interesting proposition. I think the relative density of Hatters compared to Dormice is probably consistently higher outside the UK, and almost certainly so online rather than off. The Hub of Fandom, as I would define it, will be where fandom is most organised, most visible (both publicly and within fandom itself), where its co-ordinators are most influential, and where the recruiting base for new fans is largest. To take the last first, the UK is probably the only country in the world (bar Eire and perhaps those european countries immediately over the Channel) where there is anything close to universal public awareness of the show. (There are certainly fans in Eire, a few at least in the Netherlands, but I don't know of a single one in the whole of France. Levez vous vous, mes gars?) Horizon takes an aggressive attitude to hauling in new blood, plugging itself at every available opportunity (including nationwide television). Its tentacles also spread out across international fandom (with representation at quite a few US cons, for example). At one point it had more US members alone than the total number of people on this Lyst. So the visibility is there. As for influence, a post on this Lyst will reach 300 people. Something in a Horizon newsletter will reach 1700. An article or newsflash on a website can potentially reach many more, but only those who are both online and sufficiently active to go looking for it. At the end of the day, online material can only be available to online fans, whereas offline material is potentially available to everyone. Online is exclusive, offline is inclusive. I'd agree that active fans are more likely to make the effort to go online, though not in every case (one of my regular zine contributors flatly refuses to do so), and I'd say this shift to cyberspace contributed pretty heavily to, for one thing, the death of AltaZine (possibly a good thing, actually). It also seems to have had a negative effect on zine sales, if I understand Judith P correctly. But I'm not so sure that this represents a triumph for online fandom, since there is, I think, a very real danger of writing off the passive fans, albeit unintentionally, and effectively discounting their very real, very valid but essentially invisible presence in fandom. There were a lot of Dormice at Deliverance, and I think several hundred people getting together for an enjoyable and memorable weekend is arguably a far greater achievement for fandom than a handful of people having an in-depth discussion on why Avon stayed aboard the Liberator (to pick a current Lyst thread). If you define the hub as the centre of -activity-, then the case for promoting the Net becomes stronger. This Lyst becomes a viable contender, since there is probably a higher density of B7 discussion here, day for day, than there ever has been anywhere outside the ephemeral confines of a convention bar (where B7 tends not to get discussed much anyway). But such fannish activity is not, at least as I see it, the totality of fandom - you start running into elitist waters again, and I don't want to get my feet wet. >Just thoughts... But interesting ones. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:55:20 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <005701bf199d$43cf9260$8a1bac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia wrote: >Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time >television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need >to resist such? > >What *did* they think it was about? Some time back in the 70s/early 80s the BBC made a series called, I think, 'Hawkmoor', a mediaeval romp about Twm Sion Cati, the Welsh Robin Hood. (My spelling is suspect, BTW). One of the countries to eagerly snap it up was the German Democratic Republic. The authorities there admired its presentation of the proper revolutionary spirit or some such. My favourite tale of western TV sales to the eastern bloc was Anglia Television's success with The Private Life of the Kingfisher. It was a huge hit in the USSR - apparently the Russians go nuts over wildlife programmes. A few years later Anglia followed up with The Private Life of the Starling. Naturally they sent a copy off to Moscow, only to have it promptly returned. Apparently some KGB lackey got Starlings confused with Stalin... Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:18:34 -0400 From: Meredith Dixon To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:17:44 +0100, you wrote: >Do we count someone who simply buys the videos and does nothing else but >watch them alone at home as a 'real fan'? I'd say someone who buys all the videos is a "real fan", and so would be someone (like me) who went to the effort of renting a second VCR and making copies of a friend's OTA tapes. Someone who just watches someone else's tapes probably wouldn't be, unless they go back and rewatch episodes regularly. >As for influence, a post on this Lyst will reach 300 people. Something in a >Horizon newsletter will reach 1700. An article or newsflash on a website >can potentially reach many more, but only those who are both online and >sufficiently active to go looking for it. At the end of the day, online >material can only be available to online fans, whereas offline material is >potentially available to everyone. Online is exclusive, offline is >inclusive. Nonsense. Online material is as "potentially available" to everyone as offline material is. All people have to do to see the online material is to go where it is -- that is, online, say through a cybercafe or a public library terminal, if they don't have their own computers. I'll never see that hypothetical Horizon article, because I don't go to places where I might see a Horizon newsletter. It's exactly the same thing. (Yes, I could subscribe to Horizon and receive their newsletter. And someone offline could subscribe to an ISP, too. Again, it's exactly the same thing.) > I think several hundred people getting together for an enjoyable and memorable > weekend is arguably a far >greater achievement for fandom than a handful of people having an in-depth >discussion on why Avon stayed aboard the Liberator (to pick a current Lyst >thread). That just reflects your bias towards offline activity. Several hundred people are on this list, ergo, several hundred people were "passively participating" in the thread being carried on by a handful of people, just as much as several hundred people were passively participating in that convention. Some of them may not have bothered to read the thread, but then some of the people at that convention may not have found it either enjoyable or memorable, either. -- Meredith Dixon Check out *Raven Days*, for victims and survivors of bullying. And for those who want to help. http://web.mountain.net/~dixonm/raven.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:17:03 -0700 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: In message , Murray Smith writes >Yes, what Hellen told us was interesting. I recall that the Chinese >authorities allowed "1984" to be published, thinking that it was an >anti-Soviet book. > All totalitarian governments look the same in the dark - but obviously not to each other. I suppose those of one flavour could see B7 as being a criticism of another, rival, flavour. The one that fascinated me was that apparently several countries of varying degrees of democracy have been decidedly nervous about showing a series that puts the case for violent overthrow of a repressive government if peaceful methods fail. Although B7 certainly wasn't the only BBC production to be sat on for fear of it giving people ideas - _House of Cards_ was reportedly bought by French television and then put in the attic when it was considered too close to real life. -- Jet-lagged Julia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:13:52 -0500 From: Reuben Herfindahl To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" Subject: [B7L] Real Fan? Message-ID: <16D5E9ABE65ED311A6DA00A0C9DD630D0133A4@STPNT4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A "real fan" I have always thought is anyone who takes the time to discuss the series with someone else, or try to get someone else into the series. Someone, with whom discussion levels go farther than "Animals stinks!". Personally I've never been in a fan club for anything other than Star Trek (in the 80's) and I guess I'm not really interested in joining one. In that sense I'm pretty much just an "online fan". I'd love to hit conventions and the like, but the odds of there being a B7 convention in Minneapolis is pretty slim. Reuben reuben@reuben.net http://www.reuben.net/blake/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:00:47 -0700 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: In message , Meredith Dixon writes >Nonsense. Online material is as "potentially available" to >everyone as offline material is. All people have to do to see >the online material is to go where it is -- that is, online, say >through a cybercafe or a public library terminal, if they don't >have their own computers. I haven't been to my public library since I bought a modem (the two are connected, although the former is also connected with one of the reasons I bought a modem), but as far as I'm aware it doesn't have an internet terminal. There's apparently a cybercafe in town, I presume it charges about the same as the one I used, briefly, while temporarily parted from my modem. Very briefly, at a pound for ten minutes, with a slow and unreliable link. It's easy to say "potentially available". Easy in practice? Well, I found "fandom" off the back of a video, and by buying a prozine off the newsagent's shelf. I looked for the prozine specifically so I could check out the con listings that I assumed would be in it. I couldn't afford net access at the time, my search there consisted of a fast hunt around Yahoo when I had the chance to use someone else's academic access. My first six months of reading the list involved the monthly use of a floppy and ftp. Compulsory lurkerdom... It is *still* much easier and cheaper for the typical UK fan to pick up a copy of SFX, Cult TV, etc and find Horizon's ad in the back than it is for them to find us lot here. More Brits have access to newsagents than they do to the net. Many more. And then there's the satellite channel repeats, with Horizon's ad listed in the teletext page of fan clubs. Con goers don't all have easy net access, but a lot of them pick up flyers, including Horizon's. I know they pick up Horizon's flyers, because I've handed out enough of them when manning Judith's table in the dealers' room. (You want to see heavy duty evangelising, try watching some poor unsuspecting Trekker who's stopped to look at Judith's table and asked "What's this show?":-) -- Julia Jones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:09:45 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296 Message-ID: <380BE0F9.4BF6@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Said Penny: > > He wanted the Liberator. Treasure-hold, costume-room, awesomely advanced > Altazoid technology and all. The 'new-life-on-earth' bird in the hand must > have paled dreadfully in comparison. > ... Altazoid... the Curiously Strong computer-enslaved race. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:16:13 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296 Message-ID: <380BE27D.53E3@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Una wrote: > >Well, for those of us with hayfever, this is a very serious point. The > >outdoors is just plain nasty and horrid. Long may I live in built-up areas > >covered in tarmac. > Suit yourself. I prefer to live without being covered in tarmac. Seems a trifle uncomfortable. --Avona. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:45:36 -0700 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: Judith Proctor , b7@barbarapaul.com Subject: [B7L] Curt Holland short story Message-ID: Review of the latest Curt Holland story - for those who don't know, Curt Holland is an Avon avatar who appears in several mystery books by mystery and SF writer (and B7 fan) Barbara Paul. More details on the Holland and Avon page at Barbara's website, http://www.barbarapaul.com/holland.html Yes, Judith, you can have it for the book review page. Clean Sweep by Barbara Paul In _A New York State of Crime_, 1999, ISBN0-373-26317-1 A short story outing for Curt Holland, mystery man with a shady past, high grade computer skills, and a curious resemblance to our favourite hacker. No Marian Larch this time, just Holland along with his employees Tuttle and Andre Flood. Holland discovers by chance that his agency has been used to gather information for a sweepstakes scam. Holland does not like being played for a patsy. The story details his investigation into the scam and his means of revenge. It's a nice insight into Holland's mind, focusing on his peculiar morality. For all his pragmatism and contempt for starry- eyed idealists, Holland has his own sense of right and wrong, and he rights a few wrongs in the course of this story's 27 pages. I enjoyed it, both as a mystery short story and as a piece of Avon drool. And I did like Tuttle's comment on the opening page, "Mary Sue has become my icon for self-restraint." :-) -- Jetlagged Julia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:03:10 +0200 From: "Nicola Rowe" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <000201bf19f6$774011c0$db174c86@frithabl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Neil Faulkner An: lysator Gesendet: Montag, 18. Oktober 1999 10:17 Betreff: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person > Mistral wrote: > To take > the last first, the UK is probably the only country in the world (bar Eire > and perhaps those european countries immediately over the Channel) where > there is anything close to universal public awareness of the show. Perhaps you could amend that sentence to read "... the only country in the northern hemisphere." I know it ran at least three times in NZ, but it may well have been broadcast much more frequently. I don't know when it initially ran in NZ, but I was introduced to it by a friend in 1987/88. She'd seen the series earlier in the 80s, but that may not have been its first time on air. Once the NZ broadcasting industry deregulated (around 1990, I think), it was picked up regionally, to the joy of all fans, since the regional stations didn't waste money blackaddering(*) their programmes. I know it ran on the Canterbury regional station at least once. Things tend(ed?) to run *over* and *over* and *over* again in NZ, so it may well have run a good many times in total. (Are there any NZers on here who know?) At any rate, I think most (though maybe not quite all) of us have heard of it. Nicola (*) to blackadder (v.; NZ slang): to mutilate a TV programme by lopping either (i) the best bits; or (ii) random chunks out of it, in order to make it fit within a shorter time slot than that for which it was originally filmed. Coined after TVNZ's outrageous response to an increase in the number of ad breaks per hour, to which a long-awaited Rowan Atkinson show fell first victim. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:18:31 +0200 From: "Nicola Rowe" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person Message-ID: <000301bf19f6$785be200$db174c86@frithabl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Meredith Dixon An: > I'd say someone who buys all the videos is a "real fan", and so > would be someone (like me) who went to the effort of renting a > second VCR and making copies of a friend's OTA tapes. > Someone who just watches someone else's tapes probably wouldn't > be, unless they go back and rewatch episodes regularly. The discussion seems to be conflating "being a fan" (which surely doesn't involve interacting with anyone else) with "participating in organised fandom". (Apologies if this is the distinction between 'Hatters' and 'Dormice' - I've looked for a definition in the posts coming through, but either I've missed it or they're established terms with which I'm unfamiliar!) When did you start thinking of yourselves as "fans" of B7? I didn't until I went to a convention in Christchurch (NZ) in the early 90s and someone asked me how long I'd been a fan. I was about to reply that I didn't think I would call myself a fan at all, when it occured to me that - since I was at a con, after all - this might have the ring of implausibility. But I'd never thought of myself as a fan, even though a friend and I had been writing radio plays, stories & crossovers, and making B7 prop ornaments & objects, for years. I think I thought that fandom, which is really only the state of being a fan, was something official and organised, with stamps and seals and committees. It isn't, of course. Nicola -------------------------------------------------------- Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:51:45 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296 Message-ID: <06d301bf1a00$143716a0$0d01a8c0@hedge> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen Krummenacker wrote: > > Una wrote: > > >Well, for those of us with hayfever, this is a very serious point. The > > >outdoors is just plain nasty and horrid. Long may I live in built-up areas > > >covered in tarmac. > > > Suit yourself. > I prefer to live without being covered in tarmac. Seems a trifle > uncomfortable. Admittedly, there is a brief stinging sensation when it first goes on, but after that it's worth it. Cyclists and even taxis just roll off. Una -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #297 **************************************