To: talk.religion.newage From: kathy@vpnet.chi.il.us (Redheaded Goddess) Subject: Conversation with Pir Vilayat Khan Date: 49941129 Lakum dinukum wa-liya dini What follows is a post I picked up off of talk.religion.newage, edited slightly for typos. La ilaha illa 'Llah. Muhammudun rasulu 'Llah. Haramullah --------- article begins [partial excerpt of "A Conversation with Pir Vilayat Khan", The Monthly Aspectarian, p. 10-14, May nineteen ninety issue]. The Monthly Aspectarian is CHICAGO'S NEW AGE MAGAZINE. Since recently there appeared in trna an inquiry about "a Sufi", and also I notice time from time people's comments in this newsgroup asking about sufism, I thought I would share something that I found today in my cabinet, which is an interview with Pir Vilayat that appeared in a local Chicago-suburban area monthly publication called The Monthly Aspectarian. I will post only a section of the interview, which was between the Monthly Aspectarian [TMA] and Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan [PK]: TMA: How would you describe Sufism? PK: Well it would take a lot of books to describe Sufism. TMA: The thumbnail version, then. PK: It's the "ism" part I don't like, so I'll try to speak more about the Sufis than Sufism. I know they often define this as being the mysticism of Islam. I think that it represents the convergence of a lot of currents from various religions, and I think the origin is way back prior to Islam, and even prior to Zoroastrianism. I think it is in the old Macedonian tradition of the Magi, the three wise men for example, the Magus. It takes, of course, a deep study of Sufism to retrace that origin. You know that the troops destroyed the library which had a marvelous collection of old aesthetic learning of the Macedonian tradition. But one of our Sufis was able to pick up that knowledge. We're not quite sure how much was purely Macedonian and how much knowledge he had from traces that were still underground in esoteric schools in Iran at the time. I think that the best way of defining Sufism is...we are talking about the experience of mystics who found it difficult to confine themselves to the proscriptions of religion which, for them, was intended for the masses. Whereas they needed to honor their experience. And for that reason, for example, Sufism is not really recognized in Saudi Arabia--it is considered in a derogatory way. Sometimes it had been, in the course of histories, invalidated by those in power. But I think that the only way in which Sufism, the sayings of the Sufis, were accepted was to consider they were the sayings of a mad person. So that was a very good way out of getting into difficulty. Hallaj was crucified, as you probably know. And I think today many of the things that he said are still condemned, and therefore I think it is a mistake...I think that maybe, at best, one could consider Sufism as a heresy that is not to be accepted in Islam. Although some people say the other way around, the Sufism is the real gist of Islam, and the way of how it is presented is, as my father said, they are the followers of the followers of the followers; they are not the followers of Mohammed, they are the followers of the followers of the followers. That being so, many influences came in. For example, into the corpus of Sufism, for example, Buddhism, Korasan, Christianity. It is very well possible that the word Sufi originates in a conversation between a dervish and a Mullah, and the dervish is being accused by the Mullah of wearing wool because he was supposed to follow the example of the prophet Mohammed, who wore cotton. And he said, "I'm following the example of Christ." It's a very surprising statement, and all that they knew in those days was the the Christian monks were wearing wool because they had made a vow of poverty, whereas cotton was the dress of the richer folk. And so somehow Sufism was the way of the dervish, and the word Suf means wool; so they derived the word Sufi from those who wear wool because they are following the way of poverty--of the hermits who are in the world but not of the world. Although actually, in Islam there is a saying, "There is no monasticism in Islam." So it's really at the margin. It's not really totally accepted, although many people feel that it is the cream of the Islamic gift. So there's two absolutely opposite views. TMA: As the perceived esoterics of Islam, it's not surprising that it would have predated Islam itself. Similar to the esoterics of the other systems. PK: Yes. I think that when you talk the language of the mystics we find that there is a lot of commonality between them because they're talking experience. I often organize congresses, at least I used to organize congresses of religions, and I found that each representative stayed very much into their theology and were afraid of being disloyal to their particular theology. [TMA: Or being contaminated by the others?] Or contaminated by the other ones. Well it's very under- standable because our sense of sacredness is so treasured, and our religions are a kind of form that give those who value their sacredness some kind of protection. And if that protection goes, then one doesn't know what's going to happen. And you can see the result. When religion is not observed you see what happens: terrible defilement, terrible criminality and vulgarity and so. on. For example, a friend of mine said--who's an American but he lives in Saudi Arabia--he said, "My wife can walk in the streets in Saudi Arabia at nighttime and will not be molested. But she isn't safe on the streets of New York at any time." TMA: One of the differences that I think I see between the Sufi and the other mystery schools is that the Sufi seems to live more in the physical world than the other systems. The other systems seem to be trying to get away from the world. PK: Well of course that is a generality. I think that people do have a need to get in touch with their inner being, even if they are in the world. My father does place the accent--achievement in life and also awakening in life--from awakening out of life. Samadhi is often, for example, a way of awakening to the allness in everywhere, and I call it awakening in life; awakening in the way that allness and everywhere manifests in the here and now. So it's directly oppostie. It is true that Sufism lends itself to that orientation towards existence. First of all, I must say that one of the strong powers to be found in Islam is the idea of iskala, which means "the divine nostalgia". So that the whole of creation is the fulfillment of the divine nostalgia towards manifestation and activation. And, therefore, we would be going counter to that basic impulse behind creation if we were to try to liberate ourselves from it. So that the word liberation doesn't come into the picture as far as I know, although one Sufi spoke about returning to the state in which you were before you were involved in the state of becoming--in the process of becoming. [partial excerpt of "A Conversation with Pir Vilayat Khan", The Monthly Aspectarian, p. 10-14, May nineteen ninety issue]. The Monthly Aspectarian is CHICAGO'S NEW AGE MAGAZINE. Submitted by: Kathy kathy@vpnet.chi.il.us @}-->--- -------------------------- article ends