Newsgroups: alt.religion.all-worlds Path: netcom.com!tomwillm From: tomwillm@netcom.com (Thomas Williams) Subject: Re: Topics for discussion Message-ID: Naeya Bowen-Dutson (nb2g+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: : I remember reading in Drawing Down the Moon that some of the early : interests of the pre-CAW group included intelligence tests and the : development of mental and psychic abilites. Do such things have a place : in CAW today? Is it more important at this point in time to develop a : relationship with the earth mother, and lead others in that direction? : Or could that goal be better accomplished (or at least helped along) by : a focus on human potential? Naeya; The Church of All Worlds called itself Pagan before it realized the full implications of that word as we now understand it. In our early years, we did focus on human potential and the development of mental and psychic abilities. The idea at that time was that humans could evolve to an "Omega Point" that would encompas a cosmic consciousness -- soft of like enlightenment. The salvation from the present condiditon was seen to be the actualization of the human potential for intelliigence, knowledge and wisdom -- something we intuitively believed in. An I will say that these ideals still have meaning for CAW today. Several years after the founding of CAW, we began to communicate with a group in Southern California called Ferafaria. Its founder, Fred Adams, talked of "eco-psychic" awareness of nature and humans finding their place in the cycle of the seasons and nature. It struck an immediate chord and the mostly intellectual "paganism" of CAW exploded into a full-blown exploration of Wicca, the nature religions of other cultures, our own hidden past and suppressed Celtic and European heritage. This is one of the things that makes CAW unique. We have tried to look at our own situation and that of native peoples and find that "common denominator" that links us with the urgings of Mother Earth over time and across cultures. It is from this wellspring that we create our rituals and formulate our ideals. Our realizaton of what we are about is something that is coninually evolving and at no point can we claim that we have "it." : This leads in to another question: does CAW have an obligation to guide : others, because its members have a more sane view of life? Is it : necessary for the re-awakening of Gaia, or the survival of earth? Would : it be elitist for pagans to assume that they know what is right? I'd like to think that we have a more sane vieww of life -- would not intentionally choose a less sane view --- but who asked me? The question about guiding others is a tricky one, as is the one about knowing whaT IS RIGHT. Too many religions have claimed that one for me to feel comfortable with it. But on some level, I think we know when something is wrong. It's discomfort with the way things are going, how the energy feels in a given moment. I feel we have an oblicatoin to communicate those feelings and that we have an oblication to be ourselves in tune with the Earth -- that's what we got from the nature religions that this original bunch of intellectual college students hooked up with. There's a synergy between the head and heart that I think has blessed CAW in formulating its message. It may not have been intentional, but we lucked out and grokked that we had stumbled on something that was most probably inspired by the Goddess spirit which is actually the consciousness of the planet. THAT sounds a bit elitist, I must admit. But we've always been accused of being elitist and I guess I'll own that. But that doesn't mean the sme thing as arrogant. I mean, some people think that just having strong opinions and expressing them is elitist or arrogant. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. It becomes unacceptable when you beat down the opinions of others -- either witrh noise or with rhetoric. And not everyone agrees where the boundaries lie. : The Church does not have an evangelical mission, per se, but I think : most of us happily answer other's questions. At what point is it wrong : to advocate a belief? I'm sure many CAW members have been involved in : social movements, protests, etc. I have, and I waver between feeling : that I should try to be an example to others, and actively changing : attitudes when they are damaging. At what point is it wrong to advocate a belief? It is wrong when force or coercion is involved. For free beings to advocate and live their own beliefs -- an' ye harm none -- is fine. To suppress that freely-chosen livng of ideals is wrong. If someone sincerely wants to be a Trappist monk, who am I to say he can't? I may argue with him that there is a more gratifying way of life, but that person's decision is one I must ultimately respect. If his decision is about how I am to life MY life, that is another matter. A Trappist monk would not approve of my libertine ways, but "If you don't like it, you can't have any." As to the idea that popinions cannot be expressed because they milght offend, I think we have to put some limits on our sensitivities for others or we will wind up practicing self-censorship. There is enough programming material in the world that no on eneed be forced to endure input they really don't want to hear. : The Pittsburgh Pagan Alliance (whose primary members are also affiliated : with CAW) adopted a stretch of highway outside of a local christian tv : station (for litter clean-up), and I decided to get a feel for their : business/mission. I wondered if they took offense to those signs posted : along the highway (one succumbed to an accident, the circumstances of : the other sign's demise are unknown). As much as I feel anxiety toward : that religion, I didn't want to unnecessarily make things worse. Many : times, it seems that their beliefs are similar, just couched in : different terms. : One show caught my attention because it featured an interview with John : Robbins, author of Diet for A New America, and May All be Fed. This was : followed by a program targeted for christian women, which dealt with the : problems of the african-american religious community, including the lack : of involvement by men, and the difficulties women face in the church. : It was all very interesting. Then, the thing which really set me off (I : admittedly over-reacted). A man by the name of Reinhard Bonnke, who was : called by the lord to convert the peoples of Africa. I watched mass : conversions, miracle healings, and worst of all, a witch doctor who : wanted to burn her clothing and tools. And she was only "saved" the day : before! All of them were! How can someone come into a culture and : utterly destroy it, so swiftly? If these people truly considered their : conversion, I would have no complaint. But how can one throw aside : their life's beliefs in a day? Brainwashing, I would call it. : To get back to the point, I worry about ever wanting to have people come : to my way of thinking or my beliefs. I wouldn't want anyone to blindly : follow. But on the other hand, I see such pain and destruction in the : world, and I want to change it. Are people capable of thinking things : out on their own, and coming to reasonable conclusions about how to live : on the earth? I would hope they wouldn't need to be led like children, : because there are many terrible persons willing to lead them. And the : leaders know not what they do. : Finally, what are the most pressing issues of the day? Those that we : should be aware of, if not working on? What interests do those posting : to this news group have? I'd be interested to hear. : Thanks for your patience throughout my rambling. : Naeya : To sum up, I htink you r recognition that kindness and compassion and caring can shine through even when couched in the metaphore of a religion you basically have problems with is a fine and true insight. It brings us to the realization of what "religio" really means -- re-linking, finding our place in the whole. When we do that, no matter what cultural forms we may be doing it in, we are truly practicing religion. The trick is not to confuse the metaphore with the motivation. But we must also realize that the metaphore often influences the motivation. That's why it is imnportant to stay centered as Pagans while treating the expressions of those who follow other paths on an idividual basis. There are no hard and fast answers to your questions, only general guidelines. And the real answers are found by consulting the oracle of your own heart. Blessed Be, Tom Williams Pres. and Priest Church of All worlds. -- tomwillm@netcom.com