From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 07:37:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00628; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:50 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00590; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:48 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA295677467; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:47 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:47 -0400 From: NurLuna@aol.com Message-Id: <950816113747_76109257@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: re: teachers (was re: Religion is hard?) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Abundant Peace to you, brother Jim! On Tue, 15 Aug 1995 17:35:27, you wrote [in part]: >> In my experience, having a guide is quicker, easier, happier, and a lot less >> frustrating than not having one. It is *very* wonderful to have someone >> beside me, whose voice I can always hear, helping me, loving me, as I walk >> the path Home. >> > >This is an age-old question, but I would like your response anyway. How might I >find such a 'guide'? There is a saying that when the student is ready the teacher will appear. On Sun, 13 Aug 1995 18:16:12, brother Hafizullah wrote [in part]: >The only way to tell whether someone claiming to be a teacher is for real is by their >atmosphere. There are plenty of folks with mighty fine words, but the atmosphere >cannot lie... If I may add my interpretation of this, our hearts can sense the Presence of Truth in a person. And heart calls to heart, in my experience. I knew my teacher when I found him because I saw that I was already in his heart, and found him already in mine. Ya Shakur! Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 07:37:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00704; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:54 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00671; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:52 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA274707472; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:52 -0400 From: NurLuna@aol.com Message-Id: <950816113751_76109288@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: my confession (was re: tariqas attacks) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A May Peace and Joy fill your hearts, dear beloveds! As I contemplate why I feel like a kid caught with my hand in the cookie jar, I ask myself where was I "off" in this, or -- where was the fear. For me, what is not Love is always fear, and the presence of fear leads to inharmonious thoughts, words, and deeds. My own inharmonious feelings tell me that I have erred. So what was I afraid of when I saw brother Jabriel's post to brother Durkee asking for an apology? 1. I was afraid for a person who I perceived was "taking on" brother Durkee. This was based on assumption and projection. If it had been me writing the post, I would have been in the mind that that was what I was doing. Foolish of me to think brother Jabriel shared my fears or my perceptions! 2. I was afraid for tariqas. As much as I have made peace with the fact that violently-worded disagreement may always be a part of what we share here, there is still in me enough fear to hope that I could "head it off at the pass." Again, wrong of my to try to "rescue" my brothers and sisters! 3. I was afraid of brother Durkee. Rather than ever confront him directly, which feels like suicide for me to contemplate, I chose a coward's way out. My fear is that the truth of my own inner knowing would be trampled underfoot, mocked, ridiculed, and otherwise mutilated, even though I *know* Lord Jesus' words: "Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake." Again, my projections on brother Durkee. In my mind, I have turned him into my mother, in whose eyes I was never good enough, and could never do anything right. This is not who he is. My own error of mistaken identity. Thank you, brother Jabriel, for the opportunity to confront this directly. Thank you, brother Durkee, for who you are and what you believe. If anything I have said or done has distrubed your peace in any way, I ask your forgiveness. Please pray for me that I may see only Light and know only Love. Estaferallah al-Azim! Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 07:37:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00745; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:57 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00710; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:55 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA024567474; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:54 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 11:37:54 -0400 From: NurLuna@aol.com Message-Id: <950816113753_76109303@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: more confession! (was re: tariqas attacks) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Salaam to all. One more fear -- that I now appear foolish in the eyes of my brothers and sisters. This means that I have an investment and a hidden agenda in being perceived as wise. *Major* ego stuff there!! This is particularly interesting in light of my recent response to brother Durkee's post "radical subjectivism". I now see it to be a "defense" against brother Durkee's "attack". More fear, more darkness. I am blessed by such deep, profound lessons. How much I have to learn! Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 05:56:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23680; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:04:11 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com ([192.147.45.10]) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23644; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:04:08 -0400 Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA13388; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:00:03 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id ab16845; 16 Aug 95 15:57 WET Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 10:56 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Newage ? Message-Id: <10950816155601/0007106488PJ2EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > Perhaps you are not >afflicted with the "newage" disease (rhymes with "sewage"), as one of my >teachers calls it, in which we are somehow not spiritual unless we are never >sick, never angry or upset, have plenty of money, are thin, not balding, >etc., etc. It is an ailment that is rampant in my part of the world!! I think that there is a danger in using such labels as "newage". Some categories are necessary for communicating complex ideas quickly. But categories can also be used to vail the truth; to shrink consciousness. I only bring this up because "newage" is a term that I have also used. But then I considered if I really know any single person that I would call a "newage" person. The only people that seemed to fit the group/category were people that I did not know at all or people that I knew a little but not very well. Since I 'knew' nobody that fit this category, I stopped using it. Cheers, -Michael- From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 02:19:11 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09844; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:21:22 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09777; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:21:18 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA20900 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:19:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:19:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199508161619.AA20900@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: my confession (was re: tariqas attacks) Cc: an525@lafn.org Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > >May Peace and Joy fill your hearts, dear beloveds! > >As I contemplate why I feel like a kid caught with my hand in the cookie jar, >I ask myself where was I "off" in this, or -- where was the fear. For me, >what is not Love is always fear, and the presence of fear leads to >inharmonious thoughts, words, and deeds. My own inharmonious feelings tell >me that I have erred. > >So what was I afraid of when I saw brother Jabriel's post to brother Durkee >asking for an apology? > skipped stuff > >Estaferallah al-Azim! Farrunnissa > > Dear Farrunnisa: The clarity and precision of your sharings, observations, humility and deep warmth touch my heart. Thanks Raqib back in Santa Monica -- q k From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 09:56:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19218; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:01:17 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19177; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:01:15 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA30277; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:59:36 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ae08765; 16 Aug 95 19:57 WET Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 14:56 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Re: more confession! (was re: tariqas attacks) Message-Id: <91950816195619/0007106488PJ1EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > >One more fear -- that I now appear foolish in the eyes of my brothers and >sisters. This means that I have an investment and a hidden agenda in being >perceived as wise. *Major* ego stuff there!! > >This is particularly interesting in light of my recent response to brother >Durkee's post "radical subjectivism". I now see it to be a "defense" against >brother Durkee's "attack". More fear, more darkness. > >I am blessed by such deep, profound lessons. How much I have to learn! > >Farrunnissa Your confessions hold up to me a clear mirror. Thank you for casting light Farrunnissa. Al-hamdulillahi ! -Michael- From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 13:09:48 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28506; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:09:54 -0400 Received: from everest.cclabs.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28481; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:09:52 -0400 Received: from muphnx15 (muphnx15.phlab.missouri.edu [128.206.115.25]) by everest.cclabs.missouri.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA19988 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:09:51 -0500 From: Omar Qureshi Message-Id: <199508162309.SAA19988@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> Received: by muphnx15 (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA00793; Wed, 16 Aug 95 18:09:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 18:09:48 -0500 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Sufism and Shariah Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Salam, Thank you for replying to my comments, brother. What are your opinions of Imam Rabbani's doctrine compared to Shaykh Ibn al-Arabi's. Some people say that they see no difference, however, Imam Rabbani does think that there is a fundamental difference between the two doctrines. Bediuzamman Said Nursi also agreed and followed Imam Rabbani's way. Since both Imam Rabbani and you are Naqshbandi, I would like to know what your observations on him as a person, his impact on the revival of Islam and on the purificsation of Sufism in the sub continent, and his ideas are? I know it seems like alot, but let us just go a little at a time? Asalam wa alaikum. Omar Qureshi. From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 08:35:03 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04038; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:19:01 -0400 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04016; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 19:18:59 -0400 Received: from [204.157.98.115] (sea-ts1-p53.wolfe.net [204.157.98.115]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA19761 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:21:15 -0700 X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:35:03 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gws@WOLFE.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: sufi vs. traditional question Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > State University of New York at Stony Brook > Stony Brook, NY > > G. Fouad Haddad > 14-Aug-1995 11:37pm EDT >FROM: GHADDAD >TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) > >Subject: re: sufi vs. traditional question > >as-salamu alaykum, > >Regarding Habib Najar's citation of the Ihya >of Imam Ghazali: > >Yes, it is a monumental work that shows the >possibility of teaching tasawwuf and shari`a >at the same time, but this kind of discourse >existed from the start. The Ihya is a great >book for many other reasons. It is a >widespread notion that Ghazali "reconciled" >shari`a and tasawwuf but there was no dissension >in the first place. Imam Malik's famous saying >shows that ideally, one went with the other: ><> > >Fouad Haddad >Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation Assalam Alaikum Ya Fouad, indeed, there never was a separation for those engaged in tasawwuf or those who took the external to its logical conclusion. The sunnah of the Prophet (saws) - and I mean that literally - is sh'ariah and tasawwuf combined and integral. But, it was none of these sources who made the invidious distinctions. As you said, "Imam Malik's famous saying show that ideally...." Thus, the work of Imam Ghazzali was to destroy these distinctions, to bring together what never should have been separated, and to remind us what the Ashab an-Nabi experienced as the true sunnah. It was for this reason, that I emphasized his work. peace and Blessings, Habib Najar From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 20:25:49 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24963; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:25:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:25:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199508170025.AA24963@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From sal@eng.net.com Wed Aug 16 10:25:42 1995 Return-Path: Received: from unet.Net.COM by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24939; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:25:47 -0400 Received: from eng.net.com by unet.net.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA25478; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:26:01 +0800 Received: from polaris.net.com by eng.net.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03748; Wed, 16 Aug 95 17:26:31 PDT Received: by polaris.net.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01111; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:25:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:25:42 -0700 From: sal@eng.net.com (Shahnaaz Alibhai) Message-Id: <9508170025.AA01111@polaris.net.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: unsubscribe X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 12 unsubscribe From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 16:57:41 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12625; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:58:50 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12469; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:58:42 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HU5MXI03YO95OZ4B@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:57:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:57:41 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HU5MXI07QA95OZ4B@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 16-Aug-1995 09:48pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a as-salamu alaykum Brother Omar, In reply to your questions about Imam Rabbani and Shaykh al-Akbar. Imam Rabbani was as you know one of the greatest shaykhs of Ahl al-Sunna and a Reviver and Renewer of religion. His explanations about Ibn `Arabi had to encompass a wide-ranging audience which is in itself ill-suited to understand Ibn `Arabi correctly. However, it was the right thing to do at the time considering the enemies of religion and ibahiyyun (People of total permissiviness) that he had to deal with. There is nary a single scholar whether sufi or otherwise who did not warn against reading Ibn `Arabi -- not in the uninformed tones of Ibn Taymiyya (who, as Ibn `Ata Allah al- Iskandari said to him, completely misunderstood Ibn `Arabi) but as a precaution aginst fitnah. In the words of Ibn `Arabi himself, "Whoever takes the words of sufis in the sense that is usually meant by others, commits disbelief." Insha Allah I shall pass on your questions to more knowledgeable people than myself in the hope of not disappointing you by such a brief answer. was-salam, Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 04:05:58 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23441; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 04:05:58 -0400 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23412; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 04:05:56 -0400 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id JAA20452 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 09:06:01 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <3033066D@smtpmail.logica.com>; Thu, 17 Aug 95 09:05:49 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Free interpretation of the Ko'ran. Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 09:21:00 bst Message-Id: <3033066D@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salamuu 'alaykum, I know that in Islam the Ko'ran should be taken literally. I wonder however if there are any (accepted) muslim groups that practice free interpretation of the Ko'ran. I know of Ghazali that he said that the real meaning of the Ko'ran is between the lines, but he also stated that one should follow the words in the Ko'ran literally as a sure way to conform to the sharia and sunnah. Of course this leaves the possibility that an other "way" than the Kor'an is possible. Not trying to insult you, Matthias From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 20:49:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19044; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 06:49:15 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19031; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 06:49:14 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA07441 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 03:49:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 03:49:04 -0700 From: informe@best.com Message-Id: <199508171049.DAA07441@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: more confession! (was re: tariqas attacks) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam alaikum, Sister Farrunnissa, Thank you for your postings about your fears and misgivings when confronted with the trench warfare quality of some postings. Forgive me if I mention something you have no interest in, or have already studied, but let me recommend an introductory book on the theory of the Enneagram of personality, _Personality Types_, by Don Richard Riso. The Enneagram of personality is a typology system popularized in the west by Gurdjieff in the early part of this century and later systematized by Oscar Ichazo, Helen Palmer, Don Riso, and others. There is some evidence that the sufis have kept the knowlege alive more or less in secret for some period of time, and recently released it to the world. Imagine a clock face with nine numbers, 1 through 9, insead of twelve numbers. In the system of the Enneagram's nine types of personality, everyone falls somewhere on the circle between two numbers, with the close being the "core" type and the further being the "wing" type. Occaisonally you will meet a "pure" type, right on top of their number, but not that often. No type is better or worse than the others; all sin when unhealthy; all soar when detached from their particular ego's fixation. These characterisitc fixations seem to be formed very early in life as a coping strategy of the ego as it separates into "I"-ness and "Thou"-ness, and they differ for each of the nine types. Without study of how each types defends its own sense of self, others' actions seem bizarre and unintelligible. Or they did to me, but then I'm a Four with a Five wing... Since you mentioned that Noorudeen reminded you of your mother, you may easily recognize their type when you discover it. My study of the Enneagram transformed those around me from unknowable monsters into understandable beings with hopes and fears much like mine, if generated from different centers for different reasons. It restored my relation to humanity, and I recommend study of the Enneagram to all. Hamza From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 07:03:21 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24395; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:03:21 -0400 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24379; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:03:18 -0400 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id MAA29848 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:03:25 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <30333000@smtpmail.logica.com>; Thu, 17 Aug 95 12:03:12 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: RE: Islamic countries Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 12:51:00 bst Message-Id: <30333000@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 99 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: as-salaamu 'alaykum, FYI unfortunately there are no 'islamic countries. there are countries with muslim majorities but, sad to say, they have been hijacked by people with other agendas including secularism, me big king ism, me big generalism undsoweiter. For the most part this hijacking has been carried out with the help, assistance {financial and military} and 'aid' of the west {either the current free trade {sic} states or the old managed economy states} who continue to pursue as they have since the time of the Crusaders an agenda which is distinctly anti Muslim and anti-Sufi. The payoff which they promioose their surrogates and agensts is money, power, fame etc all of which the sufis have always held to be meaningless chimera preferring to be known as the fuqarah or- the poor- in consonance with the saying of the Prophet, blessings of Allah and peace be upon him, "My pride is in my poverty." one might say that to the degree the people living in these countries have been diverted, beaten, subverted, perverted , traduced, and humiliated by colonialism {old and new}, secularism by king ism, by big khaki suited revolver packing generalism etc they have lost touch with sufism. however among the traditional muslim people throughout the world, and may Allah bless them and strengthen them, sufism is still seen as the heart of 'islam whatever mis-informed people may say. the orientalist, secularists, and above mentioned hijackers would all like to see sufism extirpated and demolished but alhamdulillah real sufism continues as it always has and, we pray, always will. For years we have been hearing that 'sufism' was dead. Indeed for years we have been hearing that Islam was dead, something from the past. People even were so bold as to write books about"The Glory that Was Islam" I don't see to many books like that nowadays and I would suggest to you that reports concerning the demise of sufism in the muslim world are just as far off the mark. It is the wish of the colonialists {who hated sufism because the sufis opposed them everywhere}, secularists {because at heart they hate Allah and cannot and will not submit, which is to say surrender, which is to say Islam} orientalists, schismatics and innovationists who fervently hope that both Islam and the Sufism which is at its heart were dead, so they could proceed to fabricate their own brand of Islam and their own brand of Sufism out of whole cloth and con more people into their game. With all due respect to brother Matthias I would suggest, as I have in an earlier posting, that either his circle of informants is too small or he is barking up the wrong tree. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain As-salaamu 'alaykum brother A.N. Durkee, You might be very well right about that I have a little circle of informants. Most of the Arabs I know a very discontented with the religious education they received. That most of them still believe, I can only call a tribute to the spirituality of mankind and the mercy of Allah. For my Persian friends this sadly doesn't hold. They left a country, that, you have to confess, does a sincire attempt to be Islamic, abeit the shiite way. However, if you excuse me, I can not believe that this is true "Islam" . For other countries trying to be Islamic the same applies. Ethiopia and Pakistan are a mess, where, in the name of Islam, great injustice happens. About Saudi-Arabia one doesn't even need to speak: The troops of the unbelievers have desecreted the holy land, when the Princes feld their riches threatened by the Irakis. You cite as one of the reasons of the downfall of Islam the kolonialism of the West. Well, it's certainly a factor. But I don't think that the Arab states do a bad job with regard to this themselves. Pan-Arabisism, the secular movement to unite the Arab world (mis)uses "Islam" where-ever they can. For the Islamic answer "Fundamentalism", I can only state that they try to replace these injustices with something even worse " Torture and Intollerance in the name of Allah ". One should remember that the greatest time of Islam was in the golden 13e and 14e centuries. Islam then was tollerant and searching for Innovation. Islam was accepted for the progress it brought "among babaric people". Even later Islam had it's great leaders: My favorit "Akbar the Great" Great Mogul of India. Already than despiced by the orthodox of the ullama, but loved by his people for his tollerance and compassion. He himself was a searcher and not afraid to be open to other religians as well. (Yes, Akbar did not oppress non-muslim onder his people!). A penny for your thoughts, Matthias. PS. Oops I almost forgot: What holds for Islam in general holds for sufism too: There are modernist as well as Fundamentalist Sufi movements! From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 16 15:44:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26235; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:50:25 -0400 Received: from mailhub.cc.columbia.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26207; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:50:23 -0400 Received: from [128.59.228.37] (phl508a012a.english.columbia.edu) by mailhub.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02006 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:50:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 22:44:55 PDT From: Zaineb Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Sender: zi1@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <01HU5MXI07QA95OZ4B@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > There is nary a single scholar whether sufi or otherwise > who did not warn against reading Ibn `Arabi -- not in the > uninformed tones of Ibn Taymiyya (who, as Ibn `Ata Allah al- > Iskandari said to him, completely misunderstood Ibn `Arabi) > but as a precaution aginst fitnah. In the words of Ibn > `Arabi himself, "Whoever takes the words of sufis in the > sense that is usually meant by others, commits disbelief." Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. When I took hands with Rahmetli Shaykh Muzaffer a short 15 years ago, I was warned, not by him but by another "one who knows," to avoid the works of al-Shaykh al-Akbar Ibn `Arabi lest I misunderstand and am turned away from faith. Thus such warnings are still made even in this day and age. Wishing all of you the best, Zaineb > > Insha Allah I shall pass on your questions to more knowledgeable > people than myself in the hope of not disappointing you by > such a brief answer. > > was-salam, > Fouad Haddad > Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation > From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 07:04:42 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25889; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:04:43 -0400 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25855; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:04:41 -0400 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa26788; 17 Aug 95 12:04 EDT Received: from [128.143.3.220] (ara-mac-220.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.220]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA35205 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:04:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199508171604.MAA35205@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:04:42 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: out the door Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A as-salaamu 'alaykum, peace all. before leaving any place my shaykh taught me to say the following. dear fellow human beings, Thank you all for your deep sharing. If i have offended any one please forgive me and if anything i have said has been useful please ask Allah to reward me. The Inspiration is from Allah and the mistakes are from me and for this reason it is best to say 'istaghfiru-llah many times every day. inshallah i hope to be in touch again after a while. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 06:27:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16864; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:33:21 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com ([192.147.45.10]) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16823; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:33:19 -0400 Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA21698; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:32:37 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id aa25463; 17 Aug 95 16:29 WET Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 11:27 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Enneagram Message-Id: <14950817162741/0007106488PJ1EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > >As-salaam alaikum, Sister Farrunnissa, > >Thank you for your postings about your fears and misgivings when confronted >with the trench warfare quality of some postings. > >Forgive me if I mention something you have no interest in, or have already >studied, but let me recommend an introductory book on the theory of the >Enneagram of personality, _Personality Types_, by Don Richard Riso. > >The Enneagram of personality is a typology system popularized in the west >by Gurdjieff in the early part of this century and later systematized by >Oscar Ichazo, Helen Palmer, Don Riso, and others. There is some evidence >that the sufis have kept the knowlege alive more or less in secret for some >period of time, and recently released it to the world. I think that the enneagram of Gurdjieff and the enneagram of Helen Palmer and the others are two different things. As far as I know, Gurdjieff never mentioned the enneagram in relationship to 'personality types'. Gurdjieff's enneagram related to a specific cosmology that included ideas such as 'the ray of creation', 'hydrogens and their levels', 'the law of octaves'. Having studied Gurdjieff's work for several years, I then read Helen Palmer's book 'The Enneagram'. I was confused because I expected it to extend the ideas of Gurdjieff, but it seemed to be unrelated. At the time, a work mate of mine was a member of 'The Fellowship of Friends'; the primary Gurdjieff/Ouspensky group. He had made a detailed study of Gurdjieff. When asked about the relationship between these two enneagram systems he said that there was none. >My study of the Enneagram transformed those around me from unknowable >monsters into understandable beings with hopes and fears much like mine, if >generated from different centers for different reasons. It restored my >relation to humanity, and I recommend study of the Enneagram to all. > >Hamza I think the humility is the most effective path to understanding others. When the nafs are gone a person is humble and will see others clearly. Is anything more humbling than Islam? -Michael- From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 08:55:22 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03691; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:55:23 -0400 Received: from maine.maine.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03672; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:55:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:55:22 -0400 Message-Id: <199508171655.AA03672@world.std.com> Received: from maine.maine.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 17 Aug 95 12:55:17 EDT X-Sender: mcpheran@maine.maine.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: mcpheran@maine.maine.edu (Mark McPherran) Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >> There is nary a single scholar whether sufi or otherwise >> who did not warn against reading Ibn `Arabi -- not in the >> uninformed tones of Ibn Taymiyya (who, as Ibn `Ata Allah al- >> Iskandari said to him, completely misunderstood Ibn `Arabi) >> but as a precaution aginst fitnah. In the words of Ibn >> `Arabi himself, "Whoever takes the words of sufis in the >> sense that is usually meant by others, commits disbelief." > >Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. > >When I took hands with Rahmetli Shaykh Muzaffer a short 15 years ago, I >was warned, not by him but by another "one who knows," to avoid the works of >al-Shaykh al-Akbar Ibn `Arabi lest I misunderstand and am turned away >from faith. Thus such warnings are still made even in this day and age. > >Wishing all of you the best, >Zaineb > > Sure, but Ibn al-'Arabi wrote for a reason -- namely, to be read (albeit by a certain audience) -- and it is one that allows him to be studied sensibly by some with the help of an authentic commentary and knowledgeable teacher. Even Chittick -- mere Orientalist scholar according to some (though I think there is reason to suppose that there's more to him than that) -- points this out (although it must be said that he doesn't make a commandment out of it) (e.g., p. xvii, the Sufi Path of Knowledge). If this seems like nonsense, though, I'd like to hear about it. I'll be in a position in October to speak with Chittick, and it might be interesting to put the issue to him if someone knows of a specific place in al-'Arabi where he himself puts strict limits on the distribution of his work and commentaries on it. As-salaamu alaikum, Mark M. From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 03:13:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28686; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 13:57:44 -0400 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28645; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 13:57:41 -0400 Received: from [204.157.98.117] (sea-ts1-p55.wolfe.net [204.157.98.117]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA16870 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:59:57 -0700 X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:13:47 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gws@WOLFE.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Free interpretation of the Ko'ran. Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >As-salamuu 'alaykum, > >I know that in Islam the Ko'ran should be taken literally. I wonder however >if there are any (accepted) muslim groups that practice free interpretation >of the Ko'ran. I know of Ghazali that he said that the real meaning of the >Ko'ran is between the lines, but he also stated that one should follow the >words in the Ko'ran literally as a sure way to conform to the sharia and >sunnah. Of course this leaves the possibility that an other "way" than the >Kor'an is possible. > >Not trying to insult you, > > >Matthias Assalam Alaikum If you will permit me, I would like to send you a few thoughts on the Qur'an. The point of departure is less the question of "free interpretation" than of the significance of the Qur'an. If you and i accept that this is the Word of Allah received by His last prophet and that the book we have in hand is an accurate reproduction of that Message, then we must take that seriously. This is the Word of Allah in its last, most complete, and comprehensive form. Our first desire (for our hearts' sakes) and duty (for our souls' sakes) is to read what is written and understand it literally. This is difficult in translation, but for many of us, that is all we have. (However, be honest and accept that that is half a loaf and an iffy basis upon which to make "free interpretations.") Second, after reading what is written and absorbing it literally, read and absorb the Hadith, for the Prophet's life (saws) was the Qur'an lived. If we want to absorb the intented meaning, we should consult the fundamental guide, Muhammad (saws). Third, take what has been absorbed from the Qur'an and verified through the sunnah of the Prophet and shape the practice of your life to fit the pattern of the Message and the sunnah of the Prophet. At this point, you may object that this sounds like a life's work and when do we get to the issue of "free interpretation?!" That is my point. We MAY reach the point of the "meaning between the lines," but only AFTER we read and understand the lines themselves. Peace and Blessings. Habib Najar P.S. The monumental quality of this task is one reason for a teacher. Does the neophyte understand the canons of discourse, the twists and turns of interpretation, the difficulties of practice, the signposts of nearness or even what the goal is? From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 08:50:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25653; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:03:35 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25619; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:03:32 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA23084; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 19:01:52 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ah04215; 17 Aug 95 19:00 WET Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 13:50 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Re: out the door Message-Id: <41950817185014/0007106488PJ3EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >inshallah i hope to be in touch again after a while. > >wa salaam > >A. N. Durkee >Green Mountain > Your first words to me were.... " i would urge you to have nothing to do with any of the spurious soopis who operate outside of 'islam. their path is a shortcut to the fire. in reality (haqiqah) there is no sufism outside of 'islam no matter what uninformed people may say." This has made a deep impression and I dwell on it often. You may have changed the direction of my life. Thank you for all you have given and I will greatly miss you. wa salaam -Michael- From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 11:19:21 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09020; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:19:23 -0400 Received: from maine.maine.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08982; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:19:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:19:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199508171919.AA08982@world.std.com> Received: from maine.maine.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 17 Aug 95 15:19:15 EDT X-Sender: mcpheran@maine.maine.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: mcpheran@maine.maine.edu (Mark McPherran) Subject: Re: out the door Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >>inshallah i hope to be in touch again after a while. >> >>wa salaam >> >>A. N. Durkee >>Green Mountain >> > >Thank you for all you have given and I will greatly miss you. > >wa salaam > >-Michael- Ditto. Please return! -- Mark M. From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 06:24:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03219; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:32:19 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03186; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:32:16 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA27011; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 13:31:26 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA23521; Thu, 17 Aug 95 13:33:27 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA15171; Thu, 17 Aug 95 13:24:17 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 13:24:17 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508172024.AA15171@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Station and Salawat Cc: mateens@sybase.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > From tariqas-approval@world.std.com Mon Aug 14 08:28:05 1995 > Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:27:13 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Station and Salawat > To: tariqas@world.std.com > X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@world.std.com" > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > X-Lines: 25 > > As salam alaykum. > > I have been wondering lately about the whole concept of praying for the > Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him, and his family, as well as the concept of Spiritual > Stations. > Was the Prophet not a man? He was not a god, may Allah forgive me. So > why should he receive more prayers than any other human being? In Islam are we > all equal before Allah, or are some greater than others? I love the fact that > when we make prayers everyone is equal, race or wealth do not matter. Yet in > Zikruallah when we pray for all the saints and so forth, I really wonder why we > don't just go around the room and recite the names of everyone there. I wonder > how Allah could favor one human over another, it seems that favortism is more > of a personal failing of humans and rather unseemly for the Ultimate Reality. > I think *every* human being is precious. Is it that when we pray for > the Prophet, Upon Him Be Peace, that we are symbolically praying for EVERYMAN? > Is the Nur al-Muhammadi the secret essence of *every* human being? > I just have a hard time understanding why the Prophet needs our > prayers. He *IS* the Prophet after all, why would he need *our* prayers? And > why shouldn't some poor nobody slaving away in some forgotten town, saying his > prayers everyday, be just as entitled to our prayers? > Your thoughts? > > Abdullah Hicksvilli > > > My master, Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani sayd, "The Noble Messenger, may God praise him and grant him peace, was the only slave of God. He is the only one considered by God to be 'responsible' in the eyes of the people of Reality, as he is the only one who adapted himself perfectly to the Will of God." "Allah said about the character of the Prophet (s), "alayhi ma 'annitum," which means "on him is all that burdens ye". He is the carrier of the burdens of humanity, not as their Savior, but as their Intercessor with God. His intercession on the Day of Resurrection is so special and so valued, that for his sake, for the sake of the Beloved of God, Sayiddina Muhammad (s), we will be saved. The Prophet (s) said [paraphrased], "none of you will enter Paradise because of your deeds, but by the Mercy of God." God said, "and we did not send you except as a Mercy to all creations." Since the Prophet is the representative of God's Mercy, it is because of him we are accepted into the bliss and peace of God in the afterlife." Because of these benefits, herein only a FEW being mentioned preceding from the Prophet (s) and for his sake, we are thankful to him, and in response to God's order, "pray on him" we "hear and we obey" but more importantly, it is a work and a duty of love for us to do so. As you so rightly mentioned, the Prophet (s) is not God nor a god, rather he is the Intercessor of Created Beings. It is for this reason we pray ON him and we do not pray TO him. Similarly we pray through him and ask him to pray and intercede for us. As you said, every person is precious. Why are they precious? If we delve into the Sufis answer to this, we will again find the root of the matter lies in the honor and sanctity of the Representative of Mankind, our Master Muhammad, peace be upon him. May God make us acceptable to Him for the sake of His Beloved as our thoughts, intentions and deeds are wholly unworthy of His Glory. salaam alaykum, --mateen siddiqui _______________________________________________ Haqqani Sufi Foundation URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 17 17:50:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07399; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 22:50:23 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07378; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 22:50:21 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HU731SVFHS95P4JX@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 22:50:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 22:50:05 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HU731SYXOY95P4JX@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 17-Aug-1995 10:46pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a >if someone knows of a specific place in al-'Arabi >where he himself puts strict limits on the distribution >of his work and commentaries on it I only know of the following second-hand reports of a general nature. Certainly Dr. Chittick can give you more specific citations. Nuh Keller in the <>: (p.1080) [IA:] "We are a group whose works are unlawful to peruse, since the Sufis, one and all, use terms in technical senses by which they intend other than what is customarily meant by their usage among scholars, and those who interpret them according to their usual significance commit unbelief." (p. 1082) "Ibn Hajar al-Haythami in a legal opinion in which, after noting that it is permissible or even meritorious (mustahabb) to read the sheikh's works, but only for the qualified... writes: 'Imam Ibn al-`Arabi has explicitly stated: <>.'" Dr. Chittick himself told me about a kind of tradition of secrecy (easily perpetuated given the difficulties of reading Ibn `Arabi) around the works of the Shaykh al- Akbar among Arab scholars. His vulgarizers are hard enough to read and study! (Such as Abd al-Wahhab Sha`rani) salam alaykum, Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 18 05:37:15 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27314; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 05:37:15 -0400 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27302; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 05:37:13 -0400 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id KAA29497 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 10:37:21 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <30346D54@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 18 Aug 95 10:37:08 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Re: Free interpretation of the Ko'ran. Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 10:49:00 bst Message-Id: <30346D54@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 56 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalam Alaikum If you will permit me, I would like to send you a few thoughts on the Qur'an. The point of departure is less the question of "free interpretation" than of the significance of the Qur'an. If you and i accept that this is the Word of Allah received by His last prophet and that the book we have in hand is an accurate reproduction of that Message, then we must take that seriously. This is the Word of Allah in its last, most complete, and comprehensive form. Our first desire (for our hearts' sakes) and duty (for our souls' sakes) is to read what is written and understand it literally. This is difficult in translation, but for many of us, that is all we have. (However, be honest and accept that that is half a loaf and an iffy basis upon which to make "free interpretations.") Second, after reading what is written and absorbing it literally, read and absorb the Hadith, for the Prophet's life (saws) was the Qur'an lived. If we want to absorb the intented meaning, we should consult the fundamental guide, Muhammad (saws). Third, take what has been absorbed from the Qur'an and verified through the sunnah of the Prophet and shape the practice of your life to fit the pattern of the Message and the sunnah of the Prophet. At this point, you may object that this sounds like a life's work and when do we get to the issue of "free interpretation?!" That is my point. We MAY reach the point of the "meaning between the lines," but only AFTER we read and understand the lines themselves. ==> Exactly the point of Al-Ghazali. ==> However, its quite strange that (at least now) there are no muslim groups who object to the idolization (Sorry I'm not trying to offend you) of Mohammad, for his status is lifted above what it used to be as "messanger of God, foremost of Humans but still Human". Are there no doubts that he has made some mistakes in his interpretation of the messages he received. ( I know that centuries of study has been performed at the tranlation and interpretation of the Ko'ran. But there had to be groups that had their doubts). ==> As a muslim you are probably not informed about theses groups. But if you know some, I would be happy to ahve your answer. Peace, Matthias. Peace and Blessings. Habib Najar P.S. The monumental quality of this task is one reason for a teacher. Does the neophyte understand the canons of discourse, the twists and turns of interpretation, the difficulties of practice, the signposts of nearness or even what the goal is? From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 18 07:45:41 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11910; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 07:45:41 -0400 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11883; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 07:45:39 -0400 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id MAA08761 for ; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:45:44 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <30348B6C@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 18 Aug 95 12:45:32 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Other office! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 13:04:00 bst Message-Id: <30348B6C@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 10 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As salamuu 'alaykum, The coming two weeks I will be at another office without internet-access. So you have to mis me for two weeks. Wa salaam, Matthias. From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 18 12:39:41 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24873; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:39:47 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24839; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:39:45 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA162358381; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:39:41 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:39:41 -0400 From: RHMH@aol.com Message-Id: <950818163941_77951268@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: wh@seas.upenn.edu, dupnet@shawnee.org, tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Archives: looking for missing papers Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: from: Ramabai Most beloved followers of this most wondrous path, I am working on the Archives Project for the Ruhaniat (SIRS). We are in the process of putting Murshid S.A.M.'s writings on computer disk. After almost 25 years since Murshid's passing, some papers no longer have copies in the main Archives. I am currently trying to contact anyone (but especially long-time mureeds from Murshid's days) who might happen to have copies of papers distributed before the Mentorgarten's masters vanished. If any of you have copies of any of Murshid's writings, please go through them at your convenience and let me know if you should find anything listed below. Also, please feel free to forward this note to anyone, active in the greater community or not, who may have copies of papers from years ago, and may have held onto them all this time. We have all Gatha commentaries, and the following Githa commentaries: "Murakkabayat" Series I Amaliyat: Series I & III Ryazat: Series I, II, & III (#'s 1-5) Sadhana: Series I & II There was at least one other set of Murakkaba: Series I commentaries, and also for Series II and III (one of which may be Murakkabayat II or III), but all are missing, and there was probably also an Amaliyat Series II. There is no indication in the files of commentaries on the rest of the Githas: Mysticism (Asrar ul-Asnar), Spirit Phenomena (Kashf ul-Kabur), or Occultism... but if any you find anything on those, please let me know. We are also continuing to look for the first pages of "Spiritual Dance", and the following lessons from "On the Performance of Zikar" [which have been missing for some time (probably prior to 1980) but the search continues]: Abraham Khalil Buddha Gautama David Khidr Krishna Rama Solomon Siva Tansen Zarathustra Spitama Please feel free to send this call out far and wide, that it may, Insh'Allah, reach the hands of someone who has carefully taken care of a paper they were given to study, back when the masters were still available. Blessings to all, Ramabai Hoppe From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 18 06:42:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27124; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:42:41 -0400 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27051; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:42:37 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME ([204.94.232.136]) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA27374 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:42:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199508182042.AA27374@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 13:42:55 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Love and Union Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hello, sentient beings! We see the effects of love in every word and move of lovers, but do we ever see love itself? We see the wave, but do we see that which moves it, the particles? My hand touches your arm; how did it get there and how did you feel it? Are we both conscious, aware of each other's presence? To the degree that love is awakened within each of us, to the degree that we are awakened through love, do we seek knowledge (gnosis), distill knowledge into wisdom, experience the divine? Is "knowledge" and "divine" two words for one reality? Can it be said that understanding is of the "head" and knowledge is of the "heart"? Remember our evolutionary progression coming from High Self (Spirit of Guidance): truth, tolerance, wisdom, justice, faith, unity, and love! Never think we "know" love until there is union, union with Absolute, Allah, the "yes" that balances the "no". Some of you likely missed a prayer, a practice given to me by an early teacher of mine, Sheikh Iqbal, he, an inspiration unique: WHEN When you pray, you should enter your private place as if for the very last time. When you love, give all that you are: saving none for yourself. When you desire, desire me so completely that you are totally dependent that I come. Each time you come to me let part of you die in my heart. Seek me knowing there is no other way out. Fall down and collapse in my presence so that I have no choice than to pick you up and carry you. When you prepare to join me say good-bye to everything you know. Each time you approach me be certain that you will never leave the same. And when we have Union, hope that no part of you survives to separate, needing to pray, love, or desire again. Have no thoughts, no trust, no vision of tomorrow, for it does not exist. Spread yourself out entirely in front of me, hiding nothing from my view. Let your heart scream of peace, singing in the silence until everything ends and I begin. "This is not a poem but a way of life. This is not a poem but a practice; this is not a poem but a door open calling to all hearts to enter. This is not a poem but the last words of a person and the first words of God. Love and blessings"--Iqbal (Jonathan D. Lewis of Sufi Islamia Ruhaniat Society, SIRS) WHEN goes nicely with: Ignore the opinions of others. Let the rumors of your foolishness spread far and wide. None of it matters in the least. Busy yourself with the burning of all of the furniture in the house of the mind. When the job is finished, dynamite the foundations and bulldoze the lot. Love, harmony, and beauty, O sentient beings of TARIQAS list, Tanzen From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 18 15:06:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04769; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 19:06:57 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04754; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 19:06:56 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA012167214; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 19:06:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 19:06:54 -0400 From: RHMH@aol.com Message-Id: <950818190651_57754932@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: wh@seas.upenn.edu, dupnet@shawnee.org, tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Murshid S.A.M.'s Maqbara Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Beloved ones, January 15th, 1996 will mark the 25th Urs of Mushid Sufi Ahmed Murad Chisti... Samuel L. Lewis. His Maqbara / Dargah / gravesite is located at Lama Foundation, high in the Sangre de Christo Mountains of New Mexico (near Taos). The old, weathered sign which has marked his Maqbara these past years is being replaced, in celebration of the Silver Anniversary of his "passage". The Board of Trustees for the Sufi Islamia Ruhaniat Society would like to extend to all the opportunity to help with the replacement of this sign. We know that Murshid has touched the hearts of many, and that there is really no way to say "Ya Shakur" enough to ANY of the beings who touch our lives with their love and guidance. It somehow felt appropriate for the new sign to be more than just "maintenance", but to somehow be a symbolic gift from everyone whose heart has been touched by Murshid's life and teachings. If you feel so called, we are accepting contributions from everyone who desires to express their gratitude. Donations can be sent to Murshid S.A.M.'s home: S.I.R.S. Secretariat Mentorgarten 410 Precita Avenue San Francisco, CA 94110 Checks should be made out to "S.I.R.S." with "Murshid's Maqbara Sign" on the note line (bottom left). May "LOVE, LIGHT AND ETERNAL LAUGHTER" be with each and every one... for now and always. Peace and blessings, Ramabai From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 18 17:20:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22463; Sat, 19 Aug 1995 03:12:59 -0400 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.IslandNet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22425; Sat, 19 Aug 1995 03:12:57 -0400 Received: from Nelson.IslandNet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0sjiCL-0005ViC; Sat, 19 Aug 95 00:20 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 00:20 PDT X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Becomming Familiar and being re-cognisant of Qu'ran Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A'udhu billahi min-ash-shiat-nir-rajim. Bismillah-ir-Rahman-Rahim I would request that our prayers go with our brother A.N.Durkee on his journey, and that Allah's will have him travel safely and be as radiant a light for those me meets on his journey as he has been for us over the past several months. I am beninning to think that the study of Qu 'ran might be quite impossible with learning what it means to do abulution. How can one broach the Book without bearing witness? So perhaps before studing and even before supplication, and even before prayer one needs to understand and appreciate the prification through wudu. Beginning with Bismillah il Azimi walhamadu lilahi 'ala din-il-Islam. Al Islamu haqqun walkufru batilan I begin with the name of Allah, Who is Great and I express gratiude to Allah for keeping me faithful to Islam. Islam is right and infidelity is wrong. while washing the wands up to the wrists three times. What is happening here? Obviously an act of purification. In the Name of God. The approach is sacred. One is turning one's will over to God, this will has no place in the prescense of what is Great. There is only One that this superlative is reserved for. This then is butressed by the fact that the participant actually first of all has a will to turn over. This is very important as it demonstrates the function of choice. Next there is the affirmation of gratitude. Gratitude becomes the key through which a slave can be set free. Gratitude is a portal toward liberation it is the letting go and the entering into a sacred act. It coupled with faith pulls out of one the right to bear witness, it extracts success. The idea of Iman, of Faith by affirmation which can only be the giftfor that which one is greatfull makes the impossible possible, it is faith which allows the servant to rent the veil of illusion, it is faith which allows a camel to pass through a needle's eye, it is faith which allows one to bare witness. Keeping faithful to what? To Islam. Does Islam here become a dyamic rather than a religeon? If this were vow it might be said once as in a baptism and than it would be comeplete. No this is said several times during the day. One might consider that this is more than a reminder. Islam becomes alive in it action. Truthfulness is a blade here perhaps which is being sharpened. As a sound fidelity lends accuracy. I think this is very imporatant in regard to an approach both to the prayers as well as to the Qu 'ran. The sound, the cadance and rythum require a recitation of clarity. Here is where knowing more about Arabic is essential. Because the next line reads that fidelity is right and infidelity is wrong. This than is the first binary statement. This the first mention of division. What is infidel. It is the lack of faith, the lack of accuracy, the lack of observance, the lack of obligation and duty. Here was have an incredible buttress. Now we can see laughingly the subject correact, correct, correct .... lets get this corect as have some level of relevance to the Tariqas (this is aprtial attempt at a little humor). My own personal experience of wudu has been one of something truly refreshing. It is an obvious attunement. It is a right of purification. It allows one to feel invited to stand upon holy ground anywhere in the world and participate in worship. There has to be much more to it then this meager description. Without refering to book (although any bibliography would be appreciated) I would love to hear what other have to share regarding its meaning and purpose, which would ellucidate more handsomely than these meager guesses at its profound relavance. Thank you for your indulgence. Your Brother, Jabriel. ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 20 05:23:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29113; Sun, 20 Aug 1995 11:28:02 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29094; Sun, 20 Aug 1995 11:28:00 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA03153; Sun, 20 Aug 1995 15:26:20 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id aa03482; 20 Aug 95 15:24 WET Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 10:23 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: RE: Becomming Familiar and being re-cognisant of Qu'ran Message-Id: <94950820152349/0007106488PJ2EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Jabriel, Would you please send your email address to me so that I can post you directly. Thanks, -Michael- MichaelJM8@aol.com From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 20 03:22:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20245; Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:15:41 -0400 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca (Island.IslandNet.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20230; Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:15:39 -0400 Received: from Prevost.IslandNet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0skE5D-0005XNC; Sun, 20 Aug 95 10:22 PDT Message-Id: Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 10:22 PDT X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Wudu Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: "It was the Sunnah to use a very small amount of water for wu du, showing that its primary nature is not a phisical cleaning, since that is already presumed, but a purification - the reestablishment of an existential equilibrium, through the symbolism of water as primordal substance, made possible by the ritual. .... It is because it is a ritual, a series of acts established by heaven, or consecrated by Divine "approaval", that the symbolic nature of water can effect a spiritual purpose" from the Concise Encylopedia of Islam. What a wonderful gift this bridge between one's everyday routine and being able to stand directly in from of one's Creator. Love Your Brother, Jabriel ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 20 23:29:41 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28894; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 03:29:45 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28885; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 03:29:44 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA21625 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 03:29:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 03:29:41 -0400 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Message-Id: <950821032940_79419794@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Enneagram Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 95-08-17 12:52:49 EDT, one of us wrote: >When asked about the relationship between >these two enneagram systems he said that there was none. I think the thing to ask about this is not whether it has some relationship to another similarly-named system, but: "Does it _work_?" In that I can tell you that it does work, and quite well. My entryway to the spiritual quest was through gestalt therapy and bodywork --- experiential modalities basically unconcerned with cognitive/structural systems. Strike one against it. Additionally, I have a strong tropism to the more traditional sufi forms, and tend to look with hairy eyeball at the proclivity of some people to loot established, intact traditions for things that attract them, taking the most superficial level and presenting that as being "the teaching" or "in the sufi tradition" or somesuch. (Therapists are the worst at this, and the better they are as therapists the more they feel entitled to perform these essentially random, piecemeal extractions.) That was strike two. As it happened, I became involved with a woman who possesses some expertise in the enneagram-of-personality. Far from being a mere typology (to which I have profound allergies), I found the system to be elegant and very workable. The "typing" is based on observable behavior and internal motivation. There is no "analysis" as that term is usually understood. It has given me a very effective handle on some things that were problematical in both my inner work and my professional life. I would agree that there is no _direct_ link with Gurdjieff's enneagram system at the level which he explicated. I can't help but wonder if his exposition was but an abstract of a larger system. Remember, in those days psychology in the West was just developing, and there simply wasn't language to express what we now call psychodynamics. While incomplete and still only a fragment of a larger reality, that language is one of the West's great gifts to the world and sheds much light on things which are either implicit or ignored as background noise in most traditional spiritual systems. The Western mentality is what it is, and we have developed tools appropriate for our peculiar maladies. I believe that the realities describable by the enneagram include both the cosmic processes depicted by Gurdjieff's presentation and the personal processes explicated by Ichazo, Naranjo, et al. And, I would certainly love to find someone with expertise in the roots of Gurdjieff's approach. I am given to understand that Laleh Bakhtiar -- who has that sort of training and knowledge -- is forthcoming with a book on it.... in service, hafizullah From tariqas-approval Mon Aug 21 08:27:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08364; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 16:03:08 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08334; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 16:03:06 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzdtr26597; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:49:23 -0400 From: NurLuna@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24731 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:27:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:27:01 -0400 Message-Id: <950821122046_79615897@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: more confession! (was re: tariqas attacks) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: May Peace be with you, dear ones. Thank you, friends Raqib, Mark, Hamza, and Michael, for your kind words, and friends Lily and Habib for your sharing. Please pray for me in this time of painful lessons. Er-Rahman! Er-Rahim! Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval Mon Aug 21 10:32:43 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18476; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:11:31 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18463; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:11:30 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzdty28264; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 14:40:52 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA18007 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 14:32:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 14:32:43 -0400 Message-Id: <950821140820_79694742@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: radical subjectivism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: the means of true discrimination are possible and do exist. Yes. Look into your heart with whatever means at your disposal. If you see blame there, blame yourself. This is called harmony. To bring harmony is the greatest jihad, to stop external evil is the least jihad eventhough sometimes one must do it. >>"The Means of Discrimination"that we may know right from wrong, good from evil and the truth from illusion.<< There is today a new opening of freedom wich brings an air of happiness with increased will power to those that can recognnise for themselves (through their own heart) the difference between right and wrong. This is not to denegrate what has been said before by the Buddahist, the Christian, the Muslim, or the Hindu. The law which they have brought is sacred and is celebrated by the heart which looks inward for judgement. To miss one of those celebrations is to miss everything. When I listen to the wind I hear the word Freedom. It will be condemend, as it allways has, as licentiousness and laziness and as against God and it may be all these things but it is none of these things and in spite of all that is said against it, in spite of the improbability that freedom should ever become a value of humanity (as imporbable as life itself) apparently just as life has a way of hanging on tenaciously to its precarious position which is to give the greatest glory of God, so freedom is a wind which has grown as steadily as surely in the world of men and women as it has in my own heart. Asha From tariqas-approval Mon Aug 21 19:01:48 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12090; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 05:01:53 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12072; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 05:01:51 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA25479 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 02:01:48 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 02:01:48 -0700 From: informe@best.com Message-Id: <199508220901.CAA25479@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Enneagram Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >Could you give sources for your commentary on G and the enneagram? >In light and love, >AriLeib This section was quoted from the book: The Naqshbandi Sufi Way: History and Guidebook of the Saints of the Golden Chain by Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani. Presumably he heard it from Shaykh Abdullah, or from his own Shaykh, Shaykh Nazim al-Qubbrusi. This selection, Tariqas archives, and many others of interest are online at: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html Hamza From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 03:41:23 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14909; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 13:49:28 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14851; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 13:49:25 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA02662; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:48:39 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA22551; Tue, 22 Aug 95 10:50:41 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA16794; Tue, 22 Aug 95 10:41:23 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 10:41:23 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508221741.AA16794@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Enneagram Cc: mateens@sybase.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: as-salaam alaykum, Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar has three books on the Enneagram from a spiritual perspective. They are entitled "God's Will Be Done", volumes 1,2 and 3, KAZI, $19.95 each. Dr. Bakhtiar can be reached at KAZI Publications, Chicago. --mateen siddiqui From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 17:32:21 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12331; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:36 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12319; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:34 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUE1VKMJXC95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUE1VKMNOY95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 22-Aug-1995 10:20pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca ) TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) TO: Remote Addressee ( _islam-l@ulkyvm.louisville.edu ) Subject: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani WHO IS SHAYKH HISHAM KABBANI? ============================= He is the Pole of Attraction of the People of Truth in America and the holder of the Sunna in an age when many teach but few practice truly. He is the source of clear guidance in a time when many read and write but few are guided and fewer guide correctly. He is the mirror of Dhikr and the Way of the Prophet (s) who address all in a clear language and relies only upon God. He illustrates the saying of Khwaja Abu al-Hasan al-Kharqani: <> Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani al-Shafi`i al-Ash`ari al-Naqshbandi is the highest leader of the Naqshbandi Order in the Americas and the representative of Mawlana al-Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani, universal leader of that order. Shaykh Hisham is both a scholar of fiqh (Islamic law) and an authorized sufi shaykh (teacher) of the Naqshbandiyyah which counts millions of followers over the world. Born in Lebanon, Shaykh Hisham acquired an undergraduate degree in chemistry at the American University of Beirut, a degree in shari`a (Islamic law) at the Azhar University of Damascus, and a degree in medicine from the University of Louvain, Belgium. After completing his studies he turnedto the inner path of tasawwuf (Islamic spiritual sciences), studying under Shaykh Abdullah Fa'iz al-Daghestani and Shaykh Nazim al-Qubrusi. He travelled with the latter to all parts of the world over the years, including Europe, the Middle and Far East, the Indian Subcontinent, and the United States where he currently resides. Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time. These teachings focus on the brotherhood of all human beings as all were created by God and all are addressed by His Mercy. In the six years that he has been in the U.S. and Canada, Shaykh Hisham has visited over three hundred communities and congregations of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, and different New Age beliefs in addition to helping launch over thirty Islamic centers and mosques. His desire is to help those groups focus on their similarities and to facilitate their coming to Islam through what is already familiar to them. In the approximately forty Naqshbandi sufi centers in America, gatherings are held once or more times a week. These gatherings are open to all people without discrimination. Shaykh Hisham leads the gathering when he is present. He begins by giving advice addressing the heartfelt concerns of those in attendance. He then leads the gathering in a loud Dhikr (Islamic remembrance of God) and recitation of Qur'an and salawat (invocations of blessings on the Holy Prophet). Despite his extremely busy travel schedule both domestic and international, Shaykh Hisham is a published author of over a dozen titles on the subject of spirituality and Islam. His latest book, "The Naqshbandi Sufi Way" (1995) is available at KAZI Publications (312-267-7001). Blessings and Peace upon the Seal of Prophets, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`at From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 17:32:35 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12384; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:48 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12378; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:47 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUE1VURT8095QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: About Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUE1VURXXE95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 22-Aug-1995 09:32pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca ) TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) TO: Remote Addressee ( _islam-L@ulkyvm.louisville.edu ) Subject: About Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani WHO IS SHAYKH NAZIM ? ===================== Shaykh Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Haqqani is the imam of the people of sincerity, the secret of sainthood, and the keeper of the light of tasawwuf who revived the Naqshbandi Order at the end of the twentieth century and brought it to the people of the West. Shaykh Nazim is without contest the chief master of Divine Knowledge and Renewer of Islam in our time. He is the rain from the ocean of knowledge of this Order and the saint of the seven continents whose light has attracted disciples from all quarters of the globe. He was born in Larnaca, Cyprus, on the 23rd of April 1922, a Sunday, the 6th of Sha`ban 1340 H. His lineage from his father's side traces its roots to Abd al-Qadir Gilani, founder of the Qadiri order. His lineage from his mother's side goes back to Jalal al-Din Rumi, founder of the Mevlevi order. In addition to being the current Grandshaykh of the Naqshbandi order, he is a shaykh and murshid (guide) of the Qadiri and Mevlevi orders, as well as in the Chishti, Kubrawi, and Suhrawardi orders. He grew up in Cyprus where he was known from his tender age for holding an unusually high spiritual station. He learned Hanafi fiqh, hadith, and tafsir until he was able to give legal rulings on a number of issues pertinent to his time. He was able to speak from all spiritual levels. He had a gift for explaining difficult realities in clear and easy aphorisms. After completing school in Cyprus he moved to Istanbul in 1940 and studied under Shaykhs Jamal al-Din al-Lasuni (d. 1955) and Shaykh Sulayman Arzurumi (d. 1948). He obtained a degree in chemical engineering from the University of Istanbul. Then, in 1944, he moved to Tripoli, Lebanon, where he was hosted by the mufti of Tripoli and shaykh of all shuyukh of sufi orders in that city, Shaykh Munir al-Malek. The next year he was in Damascus where he met Shaykh Abdullah Faiz al-Daghestani, thirty-ninth shaykh of the Naqshbandi Golden Chain, who made him his successor when he left this world in 1973. Shaykh Nazim returned to Cyprus where he began a campaign to revive Islam in the face of intense pressure from the secularist Turkish government. He was jailed many times and at one point there were 114 cases brought by the state against him. During that time he spread the Naqshbandi tariqat over Cyprus, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. He moved back to Damascus in 1952 and married there. Shaykh Nazim is known in Arab countries as Muhyi al-Sunna al-Nabawiyya [Reviver of the Way of the Prophet] and as Mu'ayyid al-Din [Support of Religion]. He holds the middle course that is true Islam, between the ibahiyyat [permissiveness] of some groups and the tashaddud [harshness] of others. Allah has gathered the keys of all turuq [sufi orders] in his hand, and there is no permission to reach the Prophet (s) in our time except through his bay`at [initiation], just as the only door left open as the Prophet (s) was leaving this world was that of Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, to whom the Golden Chain traces its origin. Shaykh Nazim began to spread the Naqshbandiyyah in the West starting in 1974, when he took to travelling to London every year and spending the month of Ramadan there, until now. In 1986 he was called to travel to India-Pakistan and the Far East. His followers among the rank and file of the Indian and Malay peoples number in the hundreds of thousands. In 1991, he made his first journey to America. In this first trip he visited over fifteen states. He met many people of different beliefs and religions: Muslims, Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, and New Age believers. Thirteen centers were established for the Naqshbandi Order in North America in the wake of his visit. He made a second visit in 1993. Through him, tens of thousands of people have entered Islam and taken initiation in the Naqshbandi order in America. In October 1993, he attended the rededication of the mosque and school of Imam Bukhari in Bukhara, Uzbekistan He was the first in many generations of shaykhs in that line to be able to return to the heartland of the great Central Asian masters. His khalifa and representative in North America is his son-in law Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani. Among the books of the Haqqani Islamic Trust founded by Shaykh Nazim and Shaykh Hisham in America and Europe: - Mercy Oceans Series (about twenty titles) - Pearls and Coral Series (about twelve titles) - The Divine Kingdom - Mystical Secrets of the Last Days - The Naqshbandi Sufi Way - Dhikr in Islam - Mawlid in Islam - The Wahhabi Fitna - The Turban in Islam - The Staff in Islam - Respecting Shaykhs and Elders - Kitab al-Naqshbandiyyah fil salat wal-ad`iyat wal-adhkar - Natural Medicine - Forty Questions - Lore of Light Blessings and Peace on the Best of Mankind, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`at From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 23:38:27 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14809; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:41:35 -0400 Received: from clark.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14793; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:41:34 -0400 Received: from [168.143.2.233] (sarmad-ppp.clark.net [168.143.2.233]) by clark.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA21153 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:41:24 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:38:27 +0100 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: sarmad@clark.net (Brody) Subject: Re: sufism and shari`a Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >>> There is nary a single scholar whether sufi or otherwise >>> who did not warn against reading Ibn `Arabi -- not in the >>> uninformed tones of Ibn Taymiyya (who, as Ibn `Ata Allah al- >>> Iskandari said to him, completely misunderstood Ibn `Arabi) >>> but as a precaution aginst fitnah. In the words of Ibn >>> `Arabi himself, "Whoever takes the words of sufis in the >>> sense that is usually meant by others, commits disbelief." >> >>Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. >> >>When I took hands with Rahmetli Shaykh Muzaffer a short 15 years ago, I >>was warned, not by him but by another "one who knows," to avoid the works of >>al-Shaykh al-Akbar Ibn `Arabi lest I misunderstand and am turned away >>from faith. Thus such warnings are still made even in this day and age. >> >>Wishing all of you the best, >>Zaineb >> >> > > >Sure, but Ibn al-'Arabi wrote for a reason -- namely, to be read >(albeit by a certain audience) -- and it is one that allows him to be >studied sensibly by some with the help of an authentic commentary and >knowledgeable teacher. Even Chittick -- mere Orientalist scholar according >to some (though I think there is reason to suppose that there's more to >him than that) -- points this out (although it must be said that he doesn't >make a commandment out of it) (e.g., p. xvii, the Sufi Path of Knowledge). > >If this seems like nonsense, though, I'd like to hear about it. I'll be >in a position in October to speak with Chittick, and it might be interesting >to put the issue to him if someone knows of a specific place in al-'Arabi >where he himself puts strict limits on the distribution of his work and >commentaries on it. > > >As-salaamu alaikum, Mark M. > Perhaps reading Arabi is for this time. Abraham From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 17:43:26 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15170; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:43:42 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15155; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:43:40 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUE2AAH14W95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:43:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:43:26 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: The Naqshbandi Sufi Way To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUE2AAH5UA95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 22-Aug-1995 10:35pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca ) TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) TO: Remote Addressee ( _islam-l@ulkyvm.louisville.edu ) Subject: The Naqshbandi Sufi Way THE NAQSHBANDI SUFI WAY Excerpt from Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, "The Naqshbandi Sufi Way: History and Guidebook of the Saints of the Golden Chain" (Chicago: KAZI Publications,995) 470 p. [p. 3-8] The Most Distinguished Naqshbandi Way is a school of thought and practice that stood in the vanguard of those groups which disseminated truth and fought against evil and injustice, especially in Central Asia and India in the past, in China and the Soviet Union in modern times, and in Europe and America today. I specifically mean the Naqshbandi shaykhs who took up political, social, educational, and spiritual roles in their communities, acting according to the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (s). The Most Distinguished Naqshbandi order is the way of the Companions of the Prophet (s) and those who follow them. This way consists in continuous worship in every action, both external and internal, with complete and perfect discipline according to the Sunnah of the Prophet (s). It consists in maintaining the highest level of conduct and leaving absolutely all innovations and all free interpretations in public customs and private behavior. It consists in keeping awareness of the Presence of God, Almighty and Exalted, on the way to self- effacement and complete experience of the Divine Presence. It is the Way of complete reflection of the highest degree of perfection. It is the way of sanctifying the self by means of the most difficult struggle, the struggle againsthe self. It begins where the others end, in the attraction of complete Divine Love, which was granted to the first friend of the Prophet (s), Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (r). Historically speaking, the Naqshbandi Way can be traced back directly to the first of the Rightly-Guided caliphs, Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (r), who succeeded the Prophet (s) in his knowledge and in his role of guiding the Muslim community, and indirectly to the fourth Rightly- Guided caliph, Ali ibn Abi Talib (as). Imam Ahmad relates in his Musnad the following tradition with a reliable, authentic chain of transmission, "Abu Bakr does not surpass you by virtue of much fasting or prayer, but by virtue of a secret that took root in his heart." (...) God said in the Holy Quran referring to Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (r): "He was the second of two in the cave, and he said to his friend [Abu Bakr], Do not be afraid for God is with us" [9:40]. Of Abu Bakr al-Siddiq (r) the Prophet (s) said, "If I had taken to myself a beloved friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as my beloved friend; but he is my brother and my companion." The Naqshbandi School is distinguished from other Sufi orders by virtue of its having taken its foundations and principles from the teachings and example of six bright stars in the firmament of the Prophet (s). These great figures were: Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, Salman al- Farisi, Jafar al-Sadiq, Bayazid Tayfur al-Bistami, Abdul Khaliq al-Ghujdawani, and Muhammad Baha'uddin Uwaysi al-Bukhari, known as Shah Naqshband, from whose name the order takes its title. Behind the word "naqshband" stand two ideas: "naqsh" which means engraving and suggests engraving the name of God in the heart, and "band" which means bond and indicates the link between the individual and his Creator. This means that the Naqshbandi follower has to practice his prayers and obligations according to the Holy Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and to keep the Presence and the Love of God alive in his heart through a personal experience of the connection between himself and his Lord. (...) Bayazid [al-Bistami] made a detailed study of the statutes of Islamic law and practiced self-denial. All his life he was assiduous in the practice of his religious obligations. He urged his students to put their efforts in the hands of God and he encouraged them to accept a sincere and pure doctrine of knowledge of the Oneness of God. This doctrine, he said, imposes five obligations on the sincere: * to keep obligations according to the Quran and Sunnah * to always speak the truth * to keep the heart free from hatred * to avoid the forbidden food and * to shun innovation Bayazid said that the ultimate goal of the Sufis is to know God in the world, to reach His Divine Presence, and to see Him in the hereafter. To that effect he added, "There are special servants of God who, if God veiled them from His vision in paradise, would implore Him to bring them out of paradise as the inhabitants of the fire implore him to escape from hell." We come finally to Muhammad Bahauddin Uwaysi al-Bukhari, known as Shah Naqshband, the Imam of the Naqshbandi Way. He was born in the year 717 H / 1317 CE in the village of Qasr al-Arifan, near Bukhara. After he mastered the sciences of the Divine Law at the young age of eighteen, he kept company with the Shaykh Muhammad Baba al-Samasi [al-Naqshbandi], who was an authority on hadith in Central Asia. After the latter's death, he followed Shaykh Amir Kulal [al-Naqshbandi] who continued and perfected his training in the external and the internal knowledge. The students of Shaykh Amir Kulal used to recite dhikr [mention or remembrance of God] aloud when sitting together in a group and silent dhikr when alone. Although Shah Naqshband never criticized or objected to the loud dhikr, he preferred the silent. Concerning this he says, "There are two methods of dhikr. One is silent and one is loud. I chose the silent one because it is stronger and therefore more preferable." The silent dhikr thus became the distinguishing feature of the Naqshbandi among other sufi orders. Shah Naqshband performed the prescribed pilgrimage three times, after which he resided in Merv and Bukhara. Towards the end of his life he went back to settle in his native city of Qasr al-Arifan. His teachings became quoted everywhere and his name was on every tongue. Visitors from far and wide came to see him and to seek his advice. They received teaching in his school and mosque, a complex which at one time accommodated more than five thousand people. This school is the largest Islamic center of learning in Central Asia and still exists in our day. It was recently renovated and reopened after surviving seventy years of Communist rule. Shah Naqshband's teachings changed the hearts of seekers from darkness to light. He continued to teach his students the knowledge of the Oneness of God in which his predecessors had specialized, emphasizing the realization of the state of excellence for his followers according to the Tradition of t Prophet (s), "Excellence [ihsan] is to worship God as if you see Him." When Shah Naqshband died, he was buried in his garden as he requested. The succeeding kings of Bukhara took care of his school and mosque, expanding them and increasing their religious endowments. Later shaykhs of the Naqshbandi Way wrote many biographies of Shah Naqshband. Among them are Mas`ud al-Bukhari and Sharif al-Jarjani who composed the [book] "Awrad Bahauddin" which describes him and his life's works including his legal decisions. Shaykh Muhammad Parsa, who died in Madinah in 822 / 1419, wrote "Risala qudsiyya" in which he talks of Shah Naqshband's life, his virtues and his teachings. Shah Naqshband's literary legacy included many books. Among them are "Awrad al-Naqshbandiyyah," "Tanbih al-ghafilin," "Maslak al-anwar," and "Hadiyyat al-salikin wa tuhfat al-talibin." He left many noble expressions praising the Prophet (s) and he gave many legal rulings. One of his opiniosn that all the different acts and kinds of worship, whether obligatory or voluntary, were permitted for the seeker [murid] in order to reach reality. Prayer, fasting, paying the poor-due, striving [mujahada] and self-denial [zuhd] were emphasized as ways to reach God Almighty. Shah Naqshband built his school on the renewal of the teachings of Islam. He insisted on the necessity of keeping the Qur'an and the teachings of the Sunnah. When they asked him, "What are the requirements of one who follows your way?" He said, "To follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s)." He continued saying: "Our way is a rare one. It keeps the unbreakable bond. It asks nothing else of its followers but to take hold of the pure Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and follow the way of the Companions of the Prophet (s) in their efforts for God." [End of excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's book, "The Naqshbandi Sufi Way."] Blessings and greetings of peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`at From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 23:32:35 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12117; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 23:32:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 23:32:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199508230332.AA12117@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From hoon@apk.net Tue Aug 22 19:32:30 1995 Return-Path: Received: from junior.wariat.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12100; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 23:32:33 -0400 Received: from [199.18.253.211] (hoon.apk.net [199.18.253.211]) by junior.wariat.org (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA12297 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 23:32:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 23:32:30 -0400 X-Sender: hoon@junior.wariat.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: hoon@apk.net (Stephen Calhoun) subscribe a thin bright reedsong | Stephen Calhoun if it should fade, we fade | @Rumi PUBH | in Cleveland, Ohio From tariqas-approval Tue Aug 22 15:54:35 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11049; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 02:38:12 -0400 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11041; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 02:38:10 -0400 Received: from [204.157.98.129] (sea-ts2-p03.wolfe.net [204.157.98.129]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA10980 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 23:40:34 -0700 X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 22:54:35 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gws@WOLFE.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Enneagram Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >This text was copied from the >http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html page. These are >some of the most beautiful pages that I have seen. > > > > >Grandshaykh Abd Allah used to serve in his master's khaniqah. You have >attained safety in the Divine >Presence. May God bless you and strengthen you in your work." > >-Michael- Assalam Alaikum Quite stunning - I was made a witness to something quite powerful in it/in me/in Him, I really cannot distinguish very well anymore. Thank you and peace to you, Habib N. From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 08:55:59 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25691; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:56:05 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AB25517; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:56:02 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA03749 ; for ; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:56:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:55:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani In-Reply-To: <01HUE1VKMNOY95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings > of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true > representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our > time. The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the only pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims - elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite offended for using this forum for such claims. From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 06:39:56 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15331; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:43:49 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15239; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:43:45 -0400 Received: from mailhub.cc.columbia.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzebe21974; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:43:46 -0400 Received: from [128.59.228.37] (phl508a012a.english.columbia.edu) by mailhub.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11832 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:40:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:39:56 PDT From: Zaineb Subject: Re: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Sender: zi1@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaykum and greetings to all. I was not offended by the statement quoted below, but I did raise an eyebrow. I have heard this claim from another group and my reaction is "it's not my problem." I simply do not believe that Allah, in His Mercy, would have only *one* way within the Islamic tradition that is the "only pure and true" way. This is what I thought back in 1980 when I heard the line, and this is what I think now. With warm regards to all, Zaineb On Wed, 23 Aug 1995, Abdkabir wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > > > Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings > > of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true > > representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our > > time. > > The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the only pure and true representative of > Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very > hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is > that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth > getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims - > elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite > offended for using this forum for such claims. > From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 08:44:49 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17111; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:45:13 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17056; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:45:11 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUEXQUDHPC95QY56@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:44:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 13:44:49 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Reply to Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUEXQUI78I95QY56@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 23-Aug-1995 01:41pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: Reply to Abdkabir Abdkabir writes: >On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: >> Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings >> of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true >> representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our >> time. >The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the ony pure and true representative of >Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very >hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is >that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth >getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims - >elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite >offended for using this forum for such claims. as-salamu alaykum, I am sorry about your response and the language you used. Perhaps you were thrown off by that claim because of your conception that only one shaykh or one tariqa can make it at one and the same time. Not so. Take for example the claim of the Greatest Shaykh Ibn `Arabi, that he was <> i.e. that no saint before or after reached or will ever reach the station that he has reached. That claim was made by others than he. Did they label each other in the way that you have done? No, rather, they took from each otehr what they could and they did not feel hot under the collar or unduly challenged by each others' claims. That is the technical and stylistic explanation. Now for the emotional explanation: If you do not feel that the tariqa that you follow *is* the best and the worthiest in your time, then what are you doing following it? No wonder then that you should be surprized by the high respect held by others for their tariqat, and find it uncomfortably "sectarian" as you said, although it is big enough, my dear Abd al-Kabir, to include respect (and great respect) of other tariqas and other shaykhs as well. Please think again before you take offense so quickly, and if you eulogize your shaykh or your tariqa (if you follow one), be certain that I will be standing to attention and saying AMEEN, for absolute love/respect of one's shaykh (even if couched in exclusive terms) is a religious duty and the meaning of tariqa for all who seek to follow tariqa, and not the mean sectarian thing that you understand it to be. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`at From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 04:13:18 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AB12655; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:13:29 -0400 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12580; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:13:25 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME ([204.94.232.136]) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA19429 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 23 Aug 1995 11:13:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199508231813.AA19429@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 11:13:18 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Re: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > >> Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings >> of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true >> representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our >> time. > >The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the only pure and true representative of >Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very >hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is >that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth >getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims - >elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite >offended for using this forum for such claims. O Beloved! What's the use of truth if you use it to crack open the skull of a person? Yes, CRAP is crap, and it takes on its own atmosphere! Let it progress at its evolutionary pace. Tact is a thread which connects heaven and earth making them one. Tact, thus, is not learned by worldly cleverness. Earthly qualifications do not make a person really tactful; he may imitate a tactful person, but polish is different from gentleness. Where does tact come from? From the profound depth of the human heart, for it is a sense developed by human sympathy. A selfish person cannot prove to be tactful to the end. He will perhaps begin by being tactful but will end in losing that spirit, because false tact does not endure. It is the real--object or person--that endures. Tactfulness comes from our consideration for one another, and that consideration comes from our feeling, our sympathy for one another. What is consideration? A feeling all that is displeasing, distasteful, disagreeable to me--I must not cause such to appear in another. From this sense tact develops as wisdom, wit. A person may be learned, capable, influential, and yet not be tactful. Tactfulness is the sign of the great ones; great statesmen, kings, leaders, heroes, the most learned men, the great servers of humanity were tactful. They won their enemies, their worst adversaries, by their tact; they accomplished the very difficult things in life by the power of tact. One never can say, "I have enough tact." There is never enough. A tactful person, having proved not to be tactful enough in his everyday life, finds more faults with himself than a tactless person. As one becomes more tactful so one finds more fault with oneself, because there are so many shortcomings: actions manifest themselves automatically, words slip off from the tongues, and then the tactful one thinks and sees that he did not do right. But as it is said: "Once it is done then you, the thoughtful one, repent of it." This is not the time to repent; you ought to have controlled yourself in the first place. One becomes tactful through self-discipline, one develops tact by self-control. A tactful person is subtle, fine, poetic; he shows real learning and fine intelligence. Many ask, "How can we be tactful and at the same time truthful?" Many look at the fineness of the tactful person saying, "Hypocritical!" But what is the use of that truth which is thrown at a person's head as a big stone, breaking his head? A truth which has no beauty--what kind of truth is that? The Qur'an says, "God is beautiful," therefore truth must be beautiful; God is truth. If it, truth, were not beautiful then beauty-seeking souls and intellectual beings would not be seeking after truth. It is not always necessary to say things which could just as well have not been said. Very often it is weakness on the part of a person to drop a word which could have been avoided. It is the tactful soul who becomes large, because he does not always express himself outwardly. So his heart, accommodating wisdom, becomes larger; it becomes a reservoir of wisdom, of thoughtfulness. It is the tactful person who becomes popular, who is loved; it is the tactful person to whom people listen. If not, life turns into a stormy sea. The influences from all around in our everyday life are enough to disturb the peace of our lives, and if we were tactless in addition to it what would then become of us? There would be one continual storm in our lives and there could never be peace. It is by tact that we make a balance against all inharmonious influences which have a jarring effect upon our spirit. When inharmony comes from all sides and we are creative of harmony, we counterbalance it, and this makes life easy for us to bear. What is goodness, piety, or orthodoxy without wisdom, without tact? What will a good person accomplish by his goodness, if he is not able to give pleasure and happiness by what he says or does? Of what use will be his piety or spirituality, if he is not creative of happiness for those who come in contact with him? It is, therefore, with tact that we begin our work of not only healing ourselves but others. The Sufis of all ages have been known for their beautiful personality. It does not mean that among them there have not been people with great powers, wonderful powers and wisdom. But beyond all that, what is most known of the Sufis is the human side of their nature: that tact which attuned them to wise and foolish, to poor and rich, to strong and weak--to all. They met everyone on his own plane, they spoke to everyone in his own language. What did Jesus teach when he said to the fishermen, "Come hither, I will make you fishers of men?" It did not mean, "I will teach you ways by which you will get the best of people." It only meant: your tact, your sympathy will spread its arms before every soul who comes your way, as mother's arms spread out for her little ones. The Sufis say, "Neither are we here to become angels, nor to live as the animals do. We are here to sympathize with one another and to bring to others the happiness which we always seek." Yes, there are many thorns on the path of life, but looking at ourselves we see the same faults, if not more, as those of others which prick like stings, like thorns. Therefore if we spare others the thorn that comes out of us, we will give that much help to our fellowman--and that is no small help! It is by being tactful that we accomplish our sacred duty, that we perform our religion, our dharma. For how do we please God? We please God by trying to please others, the fellows, all of humanity. --Adapted from the teachings of Pir-o-Murshid Inaynat Khan The more the ego-self is put under subjection, the more the divine light WHICH IS ALWAYS PRESENT is made manifest. Love, Harmony, Beauty in the coming seconds, days, years, your obliged and faithful servant, Tanzen From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 10:42:19 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10822; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:42:32 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10699; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:42:23 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA19985 ; for ; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:42:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 14:42:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Reply to Fouad Haddad In-Reply-To: <01HUEXQUI78I95QY56@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 23 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > I am sorry about your response and the language you used. > Perhaps you were thrown off by that claim because of your > conception that only one shaykh or one tariqa can make it > at one and the same time. Not so. Take for example the > claim of the Greatest Shaykh Ibn `Arabi, that he was < Seal of Saints>> i.e. that no saint before or after reached > or will ever reach the station that he has reached. > That claim was made by > others than he. Did they label each other in the way that > you have done? No, rather, they took from each otehr what > they could and they did not feel hot under the collar or > unduly challenged by each others' claims. Fouad Haddad, the above is little else but self-justifying, double-talk casuistry. This sort of contortion and distortion of ideas and words will not bother, however, those who don't much value words or logic. If I believed in reincarnation, I'd think you were a Jesuit in a previous life. Your claim about Ibn Arabi, such as you have stated it, can be interpreted in a very different way, e.g., the station he reached has an aspect to it that is unique to him, hence no one else can reach it, that aspect is his alone. This is a very different thing to say than to say your tariqa is the best there is. From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 15:47:59 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10645; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199508231947.AA10645@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Caravan ] Status: RO X-Status: >From fifthd!root@uunet.uu.net Fri Aug 25 02:08:48 1995 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10580; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:55 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzebn24017; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:46 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:47:24 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 23 Aug 95 12:31:45 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:08:57 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:08:48 GMT+6 Subject: stray thoughts about the enneagram Reply-To: root!fifthd@forthd.dcl.com Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Peace be with you, and thanks for the enneagram postings recently. That the enneagram is of ancient or Sufi origin is still in the hearsay stage. Sufis have long used geometry and numbers as a means of discerning characteristics of the Divine Presence and as a means of self-knowledge simply because the principles of space and thing- ness are as much a clue about Reality-as-it-is as human verbal communication - sometimes more so, as there is more to be learned from, say, the perfection of a crystal than from most talk. Gurdjieff obscured most if not all of the origins of his teachings, which seem, these many years later, to have been assembled from whatever masters he haphazardly encountered and stayed with for a few days here and there, no aspersions upon those from whom he tried to learn. If he really had such an encounter with Sh 'Abdu'Llah Daghestani as has been described here (and it was possible and probable), we should not overlook the obvious: - Gurdjieff missed an opportunity to learn much more about the use of numbers and geometry on the Sufi path. - He also missed the potency of the practice of reciting Sura Ya Sin and conveying that practice to his later disciples. While we're on the subject of conveyed teachings, it might bear mentioning that Sh 'Abdu'Llah Daghestani's murshid was Seyyid Abu Hashim Madani of Hyderabad, who was also the murshid of Inayat Khan: Gurdjieff popped up in Moscow and New York when Inayat Khan was teaching publicly in those cities, and soon after Inayat Khan started an ongoing teaching activity in a suburb of Paris, Gurdjieff founded his Prieure nearby. Laleh Bakhtiar's books, the Thy Will Be Done series, are not all about the enneagram, but they are very useful, and founded in the matrix which Gurdjieff ignored. At the IAS symposium, she pointed out to me that most of the pop teachers who have made a living out of teaching modern distortions of the enneagram heard her lecture at a conference about this subject, and they were immensely grateful to her for making available the intact teaching, but they said it was too late for them to change their systems as they had become so widespread. Oscar Ichazo, whom I met in San Francisco in the '70s, claimed he received the enneagram system he used "from the same source as Gurdjieff" which he claimed was from high-ranking green invisible beings and angels. He later filed a lawsuit against some of the more popular teachers of the enneagram, claiming he had given none of them permission to teach it although several of them were his students. Taking a step backward for a broader look at the enneagram phenomenon, one notices its immense popularity with Roman Catholics who think they are getting a sanitized version of esoteric spirituality, neutral of course since it is based upon sound psychological principles and science, and which hence cannot possibly be offensive to the fathers of the Church. Somehow, their versions are remarkably similar to the medieval Catholic outline of the human make-up, with the Seven Deadly Sins re-labelled and brought up to date. No aspersions upon the Roman Catholics, either: their example shows us that those who may reject a dogma are usually already trained into a way of thinking that demands they accept or construct another one. Ho hum. It is fascinating to watch how Westerners glom onto systems, oblivious to the fact that the genuine teachings and sources out of which such neat little packages have been constructed were originally designed to dismantle this kind of rut-thinking. Non-dairy creamer, and be well - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 11:12:44 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07989; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:16:21 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07955; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:16:19 -0400 Received: from popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzebl25146; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:21:36 -0400 From: achande@gettysburg.edu Received: from [138.234.52.104] (weidensall4.mac.cc.gettysburg.edu) by popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26011; Wed, 23 Aug 95 15:12:45 EDT Date: Wed, 23 Aug 95 15:12:44 EDT Message-Id: <9508231912.AA26011@popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > >> Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings >> of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true >> representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our >> time. Abdkabir wrote: > The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the only pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is >that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims -elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite offended for using this forum for such claims. ******************************************************************* Salaams! I do agree that you can't claim (as followers of tariqas do) that all sufi paths lead to the spiritual centre and then go on to assert that only one path is the "pure" and "true" one! Does that make the Shadhili, Qadiri, Tijani and other sufi orders to be less "true" when all of them emphasize adherence to Qur'an and Sunnah? The Tijani order has played quite a positive role in North and West African Muslim societies. There is however intra-tariqa squabbles which sometimes erupt among Qadiri, Tijani, and Murid followers, for instance, in Senegal based on COMPETITION and the claims that one order is "truer" than another. It is not good for one to sound as if he or she is a salesperson for one brand of product which is supposed to be better than all the other ones! Also, the statement in respect of Shaykh Nazim that "Allah has gathered the keys of all turuq [sufi orders] in his hand, and there is no permission to reach the Prophet (s) in our time except through his bay`at [initiation], ..." needs closer scrutiny. A.C. [A. Chande] achande@gettysburg.edu From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 23 16:25:23 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16612; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:25:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:25:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199508232025.AA16612@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Caravan ] Status: RO X-Status: >From fifthd!root@uunet.uu.net Fri Aug 25 02:17:12 1995 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16583; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:25:21 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzebn24079; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:48:00 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:47:33 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 23 Aug 95 12:32:08 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:17:19 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com, rhmh@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:17:12 GMT+6 Subject: signs and archives Reply-To: root!fifthd@forthd.dcl.com Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Peace be with you, a response to a posting here: If there is another sign in the works for Samuel L Lewis' grave, and if it is like the old one, may Allah bless the project, one hopes this time that the inscription "And on that day the sun will rise in the West and all humans seeing will believe" will be attributed to its source. I would imagine that the reference, to the Day of Reckoning and acceptance of Islam, will continue to be obscured by those who officially carry on Lewis' teachings. This week I am giving my copy of Glory Roads to Wali Ali: Samuel Lewis co-authored it in the early 1930s and it was his first published work. I understand there has never been a copy in the Mentorgarden archives and that most if not all of the senior teachers of the Sufi Islamia Ruhaniat Society have never seen or read it. Best wishes, - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 07:06:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29559; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:06:15 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29332; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:06:03 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28606 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:06:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:06:01 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <950824110558_82233294@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Re: Reply to Abdkabir Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: In a recent radio broadcast an NPR reporter told of being pushed in his wheelchair by an Iranian during a demonstration, afterword the Iranian wondered to this reporter why the Americans seemed so insulted by the Iranians. The reporter said, "Well, perhaps it was because you were chanting Death to American" The Iranian said, "How silly of them!" I must admit that the intracacy of the ability to make excluxive claims to another - a claim which on the face of it says "You are excluded!" - is an intracacy which eludeds me. Perhaps it is as obscure as the humor of Monty Python must be to people of other cultures, but then I wouln't expect other cultures to get that intricate highly English sort of humor. There seems to be a lot of this claiming I'm right and you are wrong but of course that doesn't really mean I'm right and your are wrong, I'm just letting you know how confident I am. Whereas in this culture one might say," I see the beauty of your opinion" and in so saying shows his confidence to be so great as to not need to make claims, or perhaps the reality is so great that it doesn't need claims. Actually, I must admit that bravado seems cartoonish to me and I would never use it outside of rooting for sports. Especially, when speaking to a child or a person of evident lesser capability of understanding than myself I would be careful not to destroy their ideal. I can, myself, think of no sadder thing than to destroy another persons ideal, since the ideal is a steping stone to a greater ideal. I would, for instance, never tell a child that Santa Claus doesn't exist (untill they are ready for that). Although some people think that teaching their children the cruel reality of life is the best thing, I think that teaching children the ideal is the best thing. It has allways seemed to me to be this kind of rudness that I perceive in such claim making. Can you offer me a better, simpler way of thinking, as I am often rather put out by such bravado like, black and white, exclusive statements, and it has allways seemed to me that most others are allso, especially those in Jerusalem? Asha From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 12:45:16 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28188; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:46:18 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28166; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:46:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:46:16 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Ennegram (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:59 -0400 From:tariqas-approval@world.std.com To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Caravan ] >From fifthd!root@uunet.uu.net Fri Aug 25 02:08:48 1995 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10580; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:55 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzebn24017; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:47:46 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:47:24 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 23 Aug 95 12:31:45 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:08:57 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:08:48 GMT+6 Subject: stray thoughts about the enneagram Reply-To: root!fifthd@forthd.dcl.com Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Peace be with you, and thanks for the enneagram postings recently. That the enneagram is of ancient or Sufi origin is still in the hearsay stage. Sufis have long used geometry and numbers as a means of discerning characteristics of the Divine Presence and as a means of self-knowledge simply because the principles of space and thing- ness are as much a clue about Reality-as-it-is as human verbal communication - sometimes more so, as there is more to be learned from, say, the perfection of a crystal than from most talk. Gurdjieff obscured most if not all of the origins of his teachings, which seem, these many years later, to have been assembled from whatever masters he haphazardly encountered and stayed with for a few days here and there, no aspersions upon those from whom he tried to learn. If he really had such an encounter with Sh 'Abdu'Llah Daghestani as has been described here (and it was possible and probable), we should not overlook the obvious: - Gurdjieff missed an opportunity to learn much more about the use of numbers and geometry on the Sufi path. - He also missed the potency of the practice of reciting Sura Ya Sin and conveying that practice to his later disciples. While we're on the subject of conveyed teachings, it might bear mentioning that Sh 'Abdu'Llah Daghestani's murshid was Seyyid Abu Hashim Madani of Hyderabad, who was also the murshid of Inayat Khan: Gurdjieff popped up in Moscow and New York when Inayat Khan was teaching publicly in those cities, and soon after Inayat Khan started an ongoing teaching activity in a suburb of Paris, Gurdjieff founded his Prieure nearby. Laleh Bakhtiar's books, the Thy Will Be Done series, are not all about the enneagram, but they are very useful, and founded in the matrix which Gurdjieff ignored. At the IAS symposium, she pointed out to me that most of the pop teachers who have made a living out of teaching modern distortions of the enneagram heard her lecture at a conference about this subject, and they were immensely grateful to her for making available the intact teaching, but they said it was too late for them to change their systems as they had become so widespread. Oscar Ichazo, whom I met in San Francisco in the '70s, claimed he received the enneagram system he used "from the same source as Gurdjieff" which he claimed was from high-ranking green invisible beings and angels. He later filed a lawsuit against some of the more popular teachers of the enneagram, claiming he had given none of them permission to teach it although several of them were his students. Taking a step backward for a broader look at the enneagram phenomenon, one notices its immense popularity with Roman Catholics who think they are getting a sanitized version of esoteric spirituality, neutral of course since it is based upon sound psychological principles and science, and which hence cannot possibly be offensive to the fathers of the Church. Somehow, their versions are remarkably similar to the medieval Catholic outline of the human make-up, with the Seven Deadly Sins re-labelled and brought up to date. No aspersions upon the Roman Catholics, either: their example shows us that those who may reject a dogma are usually already trained into a way of thinking that demands they accept or construct another one. Ho hum. It is fascinating to watch how Westerners glom onto systems, oblivious to the fact that the genuine teachings and sources out of which such neat little packages have been constructed were originally designed to dismantle this kind of rut-thinking. Non-dairy creamer, and be well - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 12:46:27 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29086; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:47:28 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29064; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:47:27 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:47:27 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Response to posting (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:25:23 -0400 From:tariqas-approval@world.std.com To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Caravan ] >From fifthd!root@uunet.uu.net Fri Aug 25 02:17:12 1995 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16583; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 16:25:21 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzebn24079; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 15:48:00 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Wed, 23 Aug 1995 12:47:33 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Wed, 23 Aug 95 12:32:08 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:17:19 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com, rhmh@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 02:17:12 GMT+6 Subject: signs and archives Reply-To: root!fifthd@forthd.dcl.com Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Peace be with you, a response to a posting here: If there is another sign in the works for Samuel L Lewis' grave, and if it is like the old one, may Allah bless the project, one hopes this time that the inscription "And on that day the sun will rise in the West and all humans seeing will believe" will be attributed to its source. I would imagine that the reference, to the Day of Reckoning and acceptance of Islam, will continue to be obscured by those who officially carry on Lewis' teachings. This week I am giving my copy of Glory Roads to Wali Ali: Samuel Lewis co-authored it in the early 1930s and it was his first published work. I understand there has never been a copy in the Mentorgarden archives and that most if not all of the senior teachers of the Sufi Islamia Ruhaniat Society have never seen or read it. Best wishes, - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 08:27:11 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28710; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 12:28:37 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28646; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 12:28:32 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzeer15594; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 12:28:33 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA28148 ; for ; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 12:27:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 12:27:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Ideals In-Reply-To: <950824110558_82233294@mail02.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 24 Aug 1995 ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > Actually, I must admit that bravado seems cartoonish to me and I would > never use it outside of rooting for sports. Especially, when speaking to a > child or a person of evident lesser capability of understanding than myself I > would be careful not to destroy their ideal. I can, myself, think of no > sadder thing than to destroy another persons ideal, since the ideal is a > steping stone to a greater ideal. ...or a stepping stone to a lesser ideal. If Hitler is somebody's ideal, say of a misinformed child or adult, would you "be careful not to destroy their ideal"? True, there's lots of the saying of what is right and wrong, because there are such things and behaviors that are right and wrong. Why? Because we beings human are a mixture of light and darkness, of angelic and earthly natures. We nafs-ridden human beings that we are need, by our very nature, to burden much of our exchanges with the distinguishing of right and wrong constantly, to decisively aid in the peeling away and blowing off of our dark side, the nafs. Oh, we can go plodding on existing in some contorted hell-bent form without doing so, but IMHO there is no spiritual progress that can occur without doing so. Also, those mainly interested in a French-cafe, coffee-house, discussion-group "salon Sufism" type of exchange will inevitably find the intrusion of such content in their exchanges intolerably burdensome. > I would, for instance, never tell a child > that Santa Claus doesn't exist (untill they are ready for that). Although > some people think that teaching their children the cruel reality of life is > the best thing, I think that teaching children the ideal is the best thing. > It has allways seemed to me to be this kind of rudness that I perceive in > such claim making. Well, this is all well and good as far as it applies to children. But given we are adults here, I assume, I don't know how this applies specifically to adults. > Can you offer me a better, simpler way of thinking, as I am often rather > put out by such bravado like, black and white, exclusive statements, and it > has allways seemed to me that most others are allso, especially those in > Jerusalem? Folks are often put out by such statements for reasons that don't have anything to do with the statement's real validity or lack thereof. E.g., in Jerusalem and elsewhere such statements are often accompanied by police clubs, attack dogs, guns, prisons, etc., etc. These accompaniments (sp?) are what mainly puts off people. But what happens in the long term is people emotionally associate the police clubs with exclusive statements of all kinds, subconsciously on an emotional plane, even when the police club isn't there. Hence on the social plane, create a society where exclusive statement- saying is not habitually accompanied by the police club, or the innumerable and less-obvious but powerful functional equivalents of the this that start up in childhood, or maybe at birth, or maybe when the baby is still in the womb, and which are maintained and nurtured by various people and institutions, such as parents, schools, etc. On the individual plane, discern in yourself the psychological impediments and associations that got encrusted on the inside that resonate - and renew themselves, unfortunately - when you don't see them for what they are. Then you'll be able to make exclusive-sounding statements when appropriate and hear them without being regularly off-put. Although there are instances in life when being off-put is a very healthy and life-affirming response, as is implied by the remark I made about Hitler above. Salam From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 09:02:03 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19210; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 13:02:14 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19191; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 13:02:12 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA03333 ; for ; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 13:02:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 13:02:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: About Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani In-Reply-To: <01HUE1VURXXE95QFFE@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > Shaykh Nazim is without contest the chief master > of Divine Knowledge and Renewer of Islam in our time. It is deplorable that you continue to have such a complusion to make grandiose, unprovable and highly dubious statements about certain luminaries in your tariqa, especially in the context of such an obvious "advertisement" for your tariqa. Maybe you do this to attract a certain type of weak person with a strong need to identify with the greatest, the biggest, the bestest, the numero uno, who has more more degrees, who knows more fiq, who is followed by more people - and celebrities too! - than any other gun-slingin' Sufi sheik out there ("without contest") - the gold medal Olympic murshid!!! Or, your litany of Sheik Nazim's experiences, qualifications, education, travels, etc., etc., seems intented to imply to people who don't know any better that such things somehow demonstrate he's the Real Thing. I wanna clue ya: none of these things means anything with respect to his authenticity. The more you wax ecstatic about your luminaries, the more I think there is a problem with them. Read the classic Sufi writings, which have warned something is usually wrong with the sheik upon whom such litanies are lavished upon. And one never sees them going on and on and on about somebody, no matter what their station. Also, check out the case study literature of cultism, where exact parallels to this can be found in great abundance. From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 07:10:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28111; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 13:18:10 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28088; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 13:18:08 -0400 Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA07799; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:17:28 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id ag24390; 24 Aug 95 17:14 WET Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 12:10 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Mistaken sectarian propaganda Message-Id: <43950824171034/0007106488PJ4EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >> >> On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: >> >> > Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings >> > of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true >> > representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our >> > time. >> >> The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the only pure and true representative of >> Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very >> hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is >> that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth >> getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims - >> elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite >> offended for using this forum for such claims. I took it all a bit differently. It is said that the road narrows at the top. As we move towards the one all differences disappear. So, at the top, all path are the same path. All paths merge into oneness. At the top I am Naqshbandi, I am Christ and Muhammad and all tariqas of truth, and Buddah. I am all of these things and none of these things. These are all part of the same golden band. This is how I understand it. It is a statement of unity not divisiveness. -Michael- From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 09:30:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18761; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:31:11 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18708; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:31:07 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUGDN9WAS095QXH3@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:30:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:30:51 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Praising in Islam To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUGDN9YW0Y95QXH3@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 24-Aug-1995 01:43pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: Praising in Islam as-salamu alaykum, My posts on Shaykh Nazim and Shaykh Hisham were not meant to exclude the greatness of other shaykhs. I knew Shaykh Alawi of Mostaghanem (from various encounters and books) before my shaykhs, and he is Shadhili. I kissed the venerable hand of Muzaffer Effendi long before I met my shaykhs, and he is Jerrahi. I run to make dhikr with the Burhanis in my area whenever I have the chance. I know the devotions and the excellent qualities of many of their shaykhs, and I have no inner reservations or envy about hearing them recited. I can wax ecstatic about many shaykhs and many prophets, but our duty is to begin with what is closest to us and that is never finished. If this sounds cultish to some people, perhaps they need to get their eyeglasses replaced, because it is a thought that is going to damage them. As for the claim that no classic sufi manuals use lavish praise for the shaykh(s), anyone can easily refute it, as I alluded already by mentioning Ibn `Arabi's famous self-praise. You only have to pick up any old edition to see four or five lines of titles praising the author to the clouds written right under his name. No-one ever came and said: "Do not call Abu Hanifah the Greatest Imam, for the Greatest Imam is the Prophet (s)". Nor does that title belittle the other three Imams of the Sunni schools. Or Abu Yazid: The Sultan of Gnostics Or Nawawi: the Seal of Qutbs Or Ahmad Farouqi: The Furthermost Lote-Tree of Sufi Knowledge! Once again: enlarge your sights and don't feel threatened by superlative language. It is not "bravado," it is the proper posture of cheer and gratefulness for the guidance God grants to creatures through other creatures, and there is not an iota of injustice or exclusivism in it. There is enough gratefulness to go around. There is no restraint in praising and extolling what is worth of praise and honor, and that is proper worship also. Advertisement? Of course! The Gospel asks: "Who would put a lamp under his bed in his house?", therefore advertise even if this one frowns or that one envies. This begins with praise of the Prophet (s), and if you do not view your shaykh as the Prophet's successor (according to the hadith), then you are either not giving your shaykh his due, or you are following the wrong shaykh. Blessings and Peace on the Best of Creation, the Pride of the Two Worlds, the Intimate Friend of the Lord of the Universes, and upon his Noble Family particularly the People of the Mantle, our Liegelords al-Hasan and al-Husayn, and the Dedicated Pearl and Flower of Paradise their Mother Fatima, and the Pure Wives of the Prophet beginning with the Mother of the Believers Khadijat al-Kubra, and the children of the Prophet and the rest of his House, as well as upon his Beloved Companions beginning with the Four Truly- Guided Successors of the Prophet and the rest of the Ten Promised Paradise, and the Martyrs of Badr and Karbala, and the Successors of the Companions until the Day of Judgment, particularly my shaykhs and all shaykhs of turuq, as well as the rest of the Best Community, the Choicest Community, the Last Community. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 04:50:14 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07889; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:58:22 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07848; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:58:19 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA19124; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 11:57:31 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA29564; Thu, 24 Aug 95 11:59:35 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA18550; Thu, 24 Aug 95 11:50:14 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 11:50:14 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508241850.AA18550@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Praising in Islam Cc: mateens@sybase.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Salaam alaykum, Bravo! Well said. Abd Kabir is very jealous of Shaykh Nazim. Who is he? Is he kabir hellmiskeen? --taher From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 09:01:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20556; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:17:24 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20530; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:17:22 -0400 Received: from mailhub.cc.columbia.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzefg05214; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 16:13:15 -0400 Received: from [128.59.228.37] (phl508a012a.english.columbia.edu) by mailhub.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17732 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 24 Aug 1995 16:12:09 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 16:01:12 PDT From: Zaineb Subject: Re: Praising in Islam To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Sender: zi1@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu In-Reply-To: <9508241850.AA18550@serii.sybase.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. I found what was written below in very bad taste. I scan all sorts of newsgroups and am a member of a couple of nets, so I see all sort of ego-tripping going on. I see it on political and religious forums. But this one takes the cake among all the bologna I've seen in the last several months. I would not have expected it of you. Not only have you made an astonishing assertion about Abd Kabir, but you've taken a swipe at Shaykh Kabir Helminski (or am I reading too much into the post?) for no apparent reason. Dervish, edep ya Hu! May Allah forgive me, for I do admit that I am angry. Zaineb > > Salaam alaykum, > > Bravo! Well said. Abd Kabir is very jealous of Shaykh Nazim. > Who is he? Is he kabir hellmiskeen? > > --taher > From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 07:43:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15834; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:51:06 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15819; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 17:51:04 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA18994; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 14:50:19 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA06289; Thu, 24 Aug 95 14:52:22 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA18710; Thu, 24 Aug 95 14:43:01 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 14:43:01 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508242143.AA18710@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Praising in Islam Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear tariqas folks, salaam alaykum. I sincerely apologize for the post about brother Abd Kabir. It was definitely in bad taste and I ask forgiveness from all concerned, namely you readers, Abd Kabir and Shaykh Kabir. --taher From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 08:45:50 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15476; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:45:05 -0400 Received: from tacoma.nwrain.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15449; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:45:03 -0400 Received: from p3.tpl1.nwrain.net by tacoma.nwrain.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0sll6X-000PZbC; Thu, 24 Aug 95 15:50 PDT Message-Id: X-Sender: rayl@tacoma.nwrain.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 15:45:50 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: rayl@nwrain.com (Ray Levesque) Subject: Re: Praising in Islam Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A Dear Taher... Apparently sufis just wanna have fun... Our attempts at humor will never land us a slot on the late night talk shows. One of my wiser teachers told us that most who study theology do so because they need it more than others... certainly true for me. Ray > >Dear tariqas folks, > >salaam alaykum. > >I sincerely apologize for the post about brother Abd Kabir. It >was definitely in bad taste and I ask forgiveness from >all concerned, namely you readers, Abd Kabir and Shaykh Kabir. > >--taher > > From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 12:51:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21196; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:56:04 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21176; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 18:56:02 -0400 Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA17761; Thu, 24 Aug 1995 22:55:21 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id ai14239; 24 Aug 95 22:52 WET Date: Thu, 24 Aug 95 17:51 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Apologize to a Shaykh ? Message-Id: <84950824225148/0007106488PJ4EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear tariqas folks, > >salaam alaykum. > >I sincerely apologize for the post about brother Abd Kabir. It >was definitely in bad taste and I ask forgiveness from >all concerned, namely you readers, Abd Kabir and Shaykh Kabir. > >--taher I've been told that it is only our nafs that can take offence. Also, I've been told that a Shaykh is a person that has conquered his/her nafs. An apology is meant to assuage a person who has taken offence. So, by apologizing to a shaykh, are you not insulting him by implying that he has taken offence and hence his nafs have not been conquered? I DEMAND that you retract this apology! ;-) just kidding -Michael- From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 24 23:58:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20795; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:59:08 -0400 Received: from diamond.sierra.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20760; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:59:05 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME ([204.94.232.136]) by diamond.sierra.net with SMTP id AA24066 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:59:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199508251359.AA24066@diamond.sierra.net> X-Sender: frank@sierra.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:58:52 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: frank@sierra.net (Tanzen Frank Gaude) Subject: Re: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >On Tue, 22 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > >> Shaykh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the teachings >> of the Naqshbandi sufi way which is the only pure and true >> representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our >> time. > >The "Naqshbandi sufi way...is the only pure and true representative of >Islam and the Way of the Prophet (s) in our time." Well, you pushed a very >hot button with this claim, and the best response to such a claim is >that it is CRAP, "pure and true" crap, for various reasons not worth >getting into. Take your sectarian propaganda - with such claims - >elsewhere. Anyone part of any other Sufi tariqa here should be quite >offended for using this forum for such claims. O Beloved! What's the use of truth if you use it to crack open the skull of a person? Yes, CRAP is crap, and it takes on its own atmosphere! Let it progress at its evolutionary pace. Tact is a thread which connects heaven and earth making them one. Tact, thus, is not learned by worldly cleverness. Earthly qualifications do not make a person really tactful; he may imitate a tactful person, but polish is different from gentleness. Where does tact come from? From the profound depth of the human heart, for it is a sense developed by human sympathy. A selfish person cannot prove to be tactful to the end. He will perhaps begin by being tactful but will end in losing that spirit, because false tact does not endure. It is the real--object or person--that endures. Tactfulness comes from our consideration for one another, and that consideration comes from our feeling, our sympathy for one another. What is consideration? A feeling all that is displeasing, distasteful, disagreeable to me--I must not cause such to appear in another. From this sense tact develops as wisdom, wit. A person may be learned, capable, influential, and yet not be tactful. Tactfulness is the sign of the great ones; great statesmen, kings, leaders, heroes, the most learned men, the great servers of humanity were tactful. They won their enemies, their worst adversaries, by their tact; they accomplished the very difficult things in life by the power of tact. One never can say, "I have enough tact." There is never enough. A tactful person, having proved not to be tactful enough in his everyday life, finds more faults with himself than a tactless person. As one becomes more tactful so one finds more fault with oneself, because there are so many shortcomings: actions manifest themselves automatically, words slip off from the tongues, and then the tactful one thinks and sees that he did not do right. But as it is said: "Once it is done then you, the thoughtful one, repent of it." This is not the time to repent; you ought to have controlled yourself in the first place. One becomes tactful through self-discipline, one develops tact by self-control. A tactful person is subtle, fine, poetic; he shows real learning and fine intelligence. Many ask, "How can we be tactful and at the same time truthful?" Many look at the fineness of the tactful person saying, "Hypocritical!" But what is the use of that truth which is thrown at a person's head as a big stone, breaking his head? A truth which has no beauty--what kind of truth is that? The Qur'an says, "God is beautiful," therefore truth must be beautiful; God is truth. If it, truth, were not beautiful then beauty-seeking souls and intellectual beings would not be seeking after truth. It is not always necessary to say things which could just as well have not been said. Very often it is weakness on the part of a person to drop a word which could have been avoided. It is the tactful soul who becomes large, because he does not always express himself outwardly. So his heart, accommodating wisdom, becomes larger; it becomes a reservoir of wisdom, of thoughtfulness. It is the tactful person who becomes popular, who is loved; it is the tactful person to whom people listen. If not, life turns into a stormy sea. The influences from all around in our everyday life are enough to disturb the peace of our lives, and if we were tactless in addition to it what would then become of us? There would be one continual storm in our lives and there could never be peace. It is by tact that we make a balance against all inharmonious influences which have a jarring effect upon our spirit. When inharmony comes from all sides and we are creative of harmony, we counterbalance it, and this makes life easy for us to bear. What is goodness, piety, or orthodoxy without wisdom, without tact? What will a good person accomplish by his goodness, if he is not able to give pleasure and happiness by what he says or does? Of what use will be his piety or spirituality, if he is not creative of happiness for those who come in contact with him? It is, therefore, with tact that we begin our work of not only healing ourselves but others. The Sufis of all ages have been known for their beautiful personality. It does not mean that among them there have not been people with great powers, wonderful powers and wisdom. But beyond all that, what is most known of the Sufis is the human side of their nature: that tact which attuned them to wise and foolish, to poor and rich, to strong and weak--to all. They met everyone on his own plane, they spoke to everyone in his own language. What did Jesus teach when he said to the fishermen, "Come hither, I will make you fishers of men?" It did not mean, "I will teach you ways by which you will get the best of people." It only meant: your tact, your sympathy will spread its arms before every soul who comes your way, as mother's arms spread out for her little ones. The Sufis say, "Neither are we here to become angels, nor to live as the animals do. We are here to sympathize with one another and to bring to others the happiness which we always seek." Yes, there are many thorns on the path of life, but looking at ourselves we see the same faults, if not more, as those of others which prick like stings, like thorns. Therefore if we spare others the thorn that comes out of us, we will give that much help to our fellowman--and that is no small help! It is by being tactful that we accomplish our sacred duty, that we perform our religion, our dharma. For how do we please God? We please God by trying to please others, the fellows, all of humanity. --Adapted from the teachings of Pir-o-Murshid Inaynat Khan The more the ego-self is put under subjection, the more the divine light WHICH IS ALWAYS PRESENT is made manifest. Love, Harmony, Beauty in the coming seconds, days, years, your obliged and faithful servant, Tanzen From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 07:40:13 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27522; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:46:17 -0400 Received: from popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (diamond.cc.gettysburg.edu) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27433; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:46:14 -0400 Received: from [138.234.52.107] (weidensall7.mac.cc.gettysburg.edu) by popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05910; Fri, 25 Aug 95 11:40:13 EDT Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 11:40:13 EDT Message-Id: <9508251540.AA05910@popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com From: achande@gettysburg.edu Subject: Request from Associated Press International Desk (fwd) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: The Associated Press has recently appointed Ms. Katherine Roth to the International Desk with special interest in international Islamic news. Ms. Roth is a professional journalist with experience most recently in Jordan. She knows Arabic but is not fluent. She is not a Muslim, but is strongly sympathetic to Islam. She reported with satisfaction a decision by AP three weeks ago to ban the use of the term 'islamic fundamentalists' from their reporting. Ms. Roth would like to do a feature on how Muslims are using the Internet. She is not on the Internet, and therefore requested that I post this notice inviting anyone to contact her to report their views, expectations, and experiences. She can be reached at Associated Press, International Desk, 50 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10020. Telephone: 212-621-1664 FAX: 621-5449. I would be glad to transmit any e-mail for her if you want to address her through me. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Charles Ali Campbell PAK BOOKS,INC Manager Books on Islam and the Middle East 137 E. 27th St alicamp@j51.com New York, NY 10027 FAX(914)359-7547 (212) 213-2177 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 12:45:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00377; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 12:45:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 12:45:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199508251645.AA00377@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Kutluk Ozguven ] Status: RO X-Status: >From kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk Fri Aug 25 12:45:45 1995 Return-Path: Received: from ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00284; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 12:45:45 -0400 Received: from cclsun.ccl.umist.ac.uk by ursa.cns.umist.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 25 Aug 1995 17:47:33 +0100 From: Kutluk Ozguven Message-Id: <28016.9508251651@cclsun.ccl.umist.ac.uk> Received: from jamaica.umist.ac.uk by cclsun.ccl.umist.ac.uk; Fri, 25 Aug 95 17:51:18 BST Subject: Re: Request from Associated Press International Desk (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com, dost@trearn.earn Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 17:44:01 BST Cc: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) In-Reply-To: <9508251540.AA05910@popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu>; from "achande@EDU.GETTYSBURG" at Aug 25, 95 11:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > international Islamic news. Ms. Roth > [..] is not a Muslim, but is strongly sympathetic > to Islam. She reported with satisfaction a decision by AP three > weeks ago to ban the use of the term 'islamic fundamentalists' from > their reporting. Yes, but this has nothing to do with Ms Roth. You won't be seeing the term these days in "respectable" news reports, because US MoD last year decided the term was counter-productive, putting peaceful religious groups into the same category with the main enemy. So radical Islam, or Militant Islam is the new description now. I don't think Ms Roth's or anybody else's personal sympathy has anything to do with such issues. From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 09:45:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29936; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:45:20 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29842; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:45:18 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA08111 ; for ; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:45:04 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:45:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Praising and Madison Ave. in Islam In-Reply-To: <01HUGDN9YW0Y95QXH3@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 24 Aug 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > I knew Shaykh Alawi of Mostaghanem (from various > encounters and books) before my shaykhs, and he > is Shadhili. Oh, when did you meet him? He died many years ago. > closest to us and that is never finished. If > this sounds cultish to some people, perhaps they > need to get their eyeglasses replaced, because it > is a thought that is going to damage them. What will cause far more damage is swallowing nonsense. Some are so damaged they can no longer recognize this common-sense observation. There's nothing wrong with praising one' sheik or murshid, but the way you do it, as the context of my prior message indicates, is in fact cultic and, in Islamic terms, idolatrous. > claim that no classic sufi manuals use lavish > praise for the shaykh(s), > anyone can easily refute it, as I alluded already > by mentioning Ibn `Arabi's famous self-praise. > You only have to pick up any old edition to see > four or five lines of titles praising the author > to the clouds written right under his name. > No-one ever came and said: "Do not call Abu Hanifah > the Greatest Imam, for the Greatest Imam is the > Prophet (s)". Nor does that title belittle the > other three Imams of the Sunni schools. > Or Abu Yazid: The Sultan of Gnostics > Or Nawawi: the Seal of Qutbs > Or Ahmad Farouqi: The Furthermost Lote-Tree of Sufi Knowledge! I have read Ibn Arabi and others, including stuff from Sheik Nazim. There is no comparison between the writings of Sheik Nazim and Ibd Arabi. Perhaps if Sheik Nazim reached Arabi's level in his writings, he would deserve such praise. On the other hand, Ibn Arabi did not have access to the Internet and did not address 20th century modern mentalities with its tendency to rabid and nafs-ful celebrity worship, with its capacity to play on the weakness and emptiness of many people who *need* to identify with someone Bigger than themselves (as was the case with Hitler, as Eric Fromm has well pointed out in his "Escape From Freedom.") If he did, it is very doubtful that he would have permitted his followers to extoll him in the manner you do your sheik. > Once again: enlarge your sights and don't feel > threatened by superlative language. Nobody is "threatend" or "envious". You reveal something about *your own* mindset by using such terms in accusing me. > It is not "bravado," > it is the proper posture of cheer and gratefulness for the > guidance God grants to creatures through other creatures, > and there is not an iota of injustice or exclusivism > in it. There is enough gratefulness to go around. There > is no restraint in praising and extolling what is > worth of praise and honor, and that is proper worship > also. Advertisement? Of course! You completely and utterly seem to miss the point that the *way* you "advertise" is offensive. E.g., these long litanies about Sheik Nazim's academic career (as if this meant anything at all with regard to his qualifications), the long, detailed pedigree, which you trace - on both sides of his family, no, not just one side! - to illustrious Sufis, as if your Sheik were some prize racehorse with Superior Spiritual Genetics, and so much else in your message bears the plain-as-day imprint of the style and methodology of the Madison avenue PR and advertising industry, probably the most spirituallly and psychologically corrupting and devious industry in the world's history. Tell me, do you have any evidence that Ibn Arabi and the folowers of his time went about North Africa and Spain pinning advertisements on trees and buidlings telling people where he got a degree? Maybe they had somebody on a streetcorner yelling out Ibn Arabis' wondrousness? You are utterly oblivious to the fact that if your sheik really had something of value to sincere people, e.g., people who joined a tariqa who were NOT joining because they wished to associate with celebrities (the fact that you have "celebrities" or "famous people" in your tariqa is something that has been unabashedly posted by your people here before), then you would never need to *imitate* such obvious, crass, duplicitous, manipulative, profane, and "worldly" rhetoric and style characteristic of the PR industry, which some people say is an industry in which the art of lying to people has been refined and perfected. In short, you *model* your PR dispatches - and your Skeik's public appearances (concerts? - like a rock star, maybe?) - on the methods of the professional deception industry. What's especially interesting, IMO, is that your Mad Ave. style and rhetoric - the way you do your messages, apart from the content - reveals so very, very much about where your master's real teachings are really coming from. And it isn't from any real silsilah or the Prophet, al hamdu lillah, let me clue you. It is ironic that Mad Avenue is finding out it can't use it's usual techniques on the Internet without terribly alienating people - they're ahead of you on that score! The Gospel asks: > "Who would put a lamp under his bed in his house?", > therefore advertise even if this one frowns or that one > envies. Again, you prove my point that you are oblivious to the significance conveyed by the manner in which you advertise. You neglect to point out that in the NT Jesus also said to his disciples to leave and "wipe the dust from your feet" from towns that were not interested in his message. He did not seek to impose it on people, the opposite of what Mad Ave., your model, does (but in fairness to the ad industry, they normally pay for placing advertisements and get chased off the net when try they their techniques on it. You take up band width that you don't pay for in "advertising.") > > This begins with praise of the Prophet (s), and if you > do not view your shaykh as the Prophet's successor > (according to the hadith), then you are either not giving your > shaykh his due, or you are following the wrong shaykh. > Oh I do give him his due, my murshid, you can be certain. But he would be utterly appalled if I did so using your advertising methods. I think doing so would be an insult to him, and to the others of my tariqa. Given the pattern visible in your methods, I'm waiting to see next Sheik Nazim on one of the cable TV channels doing a presentation in the manner of the televangelists, like Jerry F. and the dozens of others with their Hollywood Bowl approach. Perhaps there will be choirs of sema singers, and Sufi dancing, and lots of colors and lights, and expert camera shots, and calls for "free will Offerings" and an 800 number to call? My advice to you is: read the classic Sufi authors, most or all of whom warned against fraudulent Sufi masters, even - especially - the sweet and beautiful *talkers* among them. Read also Guenon's "Reign of Quantity," where he talks about Sheik Nazim in that book. (Oh, just kidding slightly: he really talks about people or types very much like him). If you do, you just might wake up to some truth and some reality. Salam From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 09:54:30 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00432; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:54:33 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00284; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:54:31 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA09507 ; for ; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:54:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:54:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Praising in Islam In-Reply-To: <9508242143.AA18710@serii.sybase.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 24 Aug 1995, Mateen Siddiqui wrote: > > Dear tariqas folks, > > salaam alaykum. > > I sincerely apologize for the post about brother Abd Kabir. It > was definitely in bad taste and I ask forgiveness from > all concerned, namely you readers, Abd Kabir and Shaykh Kabir. > > --taher > Hey, no problem. I'm accustomed to getting knocked a lot harder by folks who don't want any forgiveness for doing it. From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 09:58:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07561; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:58:59 -0400 Received: from everest.cclabs.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07538; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:58:57 -0400 Received: from muphnx12 (muphnx12.phlab.missouri.edu [128.206.115.22]) by everest.cclabs.missouri.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA06070 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 14:58:56 -0500 From: Omar Qureshi Message-Id: <199508251958.OAA06070@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> Received: by muphnx12 (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA01383; Fri, 25 Aug 95 14:58:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 14:58:54 -0500 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: About Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Salam, I agree with you about your response. It seems as if all Sufism is is to praise your shiekh and to unquestionably follow him. Although I know that Sufism is not this, however, many followers of a tariqa seem to portray this idea. To me any person who follows thier Shiekh unquestionably and praises every single minute action the he/she(!!!) might do is a very weak person. Salam. From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 09:40:03 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13233; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 19:48:22 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13205; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 19:48:16 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA20853; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 16:47:27 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA00133; Fri, 25 Aug 95 16:49:27 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA20997; Fri, 25 Aug 95 16:40:03 PDT Date: Fri, 25 Aug 95 16:40:03 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508252340.AA20997@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: re: Praising in Islam... Cc: ghaddad@ccmail.sunysb.edu, mateens@sybase.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Raheem Our shaykh's stated purpose, in coming to the West and in publicizing his work is for only one thing: to bring as many people to Islam and Sufism as possible. Part of that is done via PR, as you so snidely put it, as is effective and useful. There are no billboards or magazine ads touting our shaykh, but if that were an effective means of bringing people to the Din, it would certainly be not only acceptable but recommended, in shari'ah, in tariqah and in haqiqah. However, if you have met either Shaykh Nazim or Shaykh Hisham, his calipha, you will realize how very humble they are. You confuse method with content, as a person watching a battlefield say between (your favorite example) Hitler's troops and the Allies and says, "I see no difference between the two groups, they both carry similar weapons, they wear similar clothing, they shout and scream the same, obviously they are the same in intent and malice." One example of what I am relating, i.e. that our shaykh's purpose is to spread Islam and the Naqshbandiyya in the West, is his adoption of the form of dhikr to one more palatable in the West. Usually the Khatm of the Naqshbandiyya is done silently, as the silent dhikr is considered preferable. However, due to the circumstances in the West, the shaykh has concluded the louder dhikr is preferable as it has an appealing quality to Westerners. Therefore, he has taken the fatwa used by the 40 other turuq which permits loud group dhikr, sometimes perhaps to the consternation of more "orthodox" Naqshbandis. That is simply following wisdom instead of sticking to a routine. When he is home in Cyprus, he still often conducts the silent dhikr. His intention is that followed by the Prophet Muhammad (s), as his stated intention was "to confront people until they say 'la ilaha ill-Allah.'" This he spent 23 years doing. This included what you have termed "advertising" by sending letters to the greatest leaders of his time, the Negus of Abyssinia, the Kaiser of Persia and the Holy Roman Emperor calling them to follow him and follow the Religion of Peace, the Sublime Path to God. His Companions followed that example after the Noble Messenger's passing, may Allah bless him and his family, by spreading to the four corners of the globe with the call of Islam. They did not cease until their own passing or martyrdom. What they accomplishments in less than 100 years no one has ever accomplished after them, but it is the the Inheritance of the Prophets ['warithat ul-anbiya'], that is carried by shaykhs of the Sufi orders. This tradition of the Prophet (s) and his Companions was continued until Islam reached from the Maghreb to the Isles of the Far East. Who continued it? The Sufi shaykhs and murabitun. They sought out the farthest horizon to which the religion had not spread and established themselves there. God made them Lights from His Lights and the people came to them as moths to the flame. Our shaykhs continue in that tradition. As is Shaykh Nazim's stated intention, "I intend to bring bring the light of 'la ilaha ill-Allah, Muhammad Rasul-Allah' to every human being on these two great continents." As for praising a shaykh being in any way fascism, then accordingly most of the Muslim Sufi scholars and shaykhs were fascists, [istaghfirullah] as they praised our beloved and honored master Muhammad, they praised the Sahaba, they praised the awliya and they praised their shaykhs. The style employed by Fouad in previous posts is very common in Arabic Islamic literature contrary to your statements to the contrary. It may not be a style that appeals to the Western intellect, but is a form very admired in Arab culture, one which is very language-oriented, because of the use of eloquence and subtleties of the language to create "flourishes" of meaning, like a painter on a canvas. To consider such praise idolatry is simply the highest form of ignorance, as exhibited by the Wahabis and Salafis today when they attack Sufism. In response the Sufis say, "they never understand the difference between worship and respect!" As for needing streetcryers announcing Ibn 'Arabi's arrival, or for that matter any shaykh's, it was not necessary and still is not, as the sincere people are quickly pulled from whereever they are at the approach of such Oceans of Gnosis. Our shaykh, Mawlana Shaykh Nazim is the same way, with little or no announcement, he is consistently greeted by hundreds sometimes thousands, wherever he goes. That is not due to his pomposity, but on the contrary is due to his humility as he is comfortable with everyone and makes everyone feel loved. That is a great treasure. If what you mean to say is "today there are no more Ibn 'Arabi's" then you are dead wrong. God said, speaking about the Forerunners in the Race to God, "many from among the first and few from among the Last," indicating there are always some of them present, and God knows best. ["thulatun min al-awwaleen wa qaleelan min al-aakhireen"] As to mentioning the "celebrities" and famous who meet with our shaykhs, it is something we celebrate, as we are most happy when we see someone pulled towards the beauty and love which is the essence of Islam, as manifested by our shaykhs' personal behavior and attributes. It is simply a sign of their greatness that they are able to attract such persons, who thousands are always attempting to attract with little success. And it is always a great success when a great person of the world enters the Path of Peace, Islam, because the Prophet (s) said, "those who were outstanding in their ignorance are outstanding in their Submission, their Islam." As for your more serious attacks on the character of the shaykhs, and the validity of their silsilah, to quote Zeynep, "I do admit I am angry," so I better leave the rest unsaid... Allah is well able to defend His Saints. --mateen siddiqui From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 11:16:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19338; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:16:12 -0400 Received: from carson-oms2.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19308; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 21:16:10 -0400 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by carson-oms2.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.07/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA12842; Fri, 25 Aug 95 18:16:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 18:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Ila" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: About Shaykh Hisham Kabbani In-Reply-To: <199508251359.AA24066@diamond.sierra.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum Tanzen Thank you for the beautiful, profound and apropos essay on tact. Lily From tariqas-approval Fri Aug 25 15:26:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05271; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 04:27:46 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05239; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 04:27:44 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzekj13365; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 01:26:19 -0400 From: informe@best.com Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA06215 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 1995 22:26:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 22:26:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199508260526.WAA06215@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Shaykh Nazim Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam alaikum, >I have read Ibn Arabi and others, including stuff from Sheik Nazim. There >is no comparison between the writings of Sheik Nazim and Ibd Arabi. >Perhaps if Sheik Nazim reached Arabi's level in his writings, he would >deserve such praise. As has been pointed out here, Ibn al-Arabi was not writing specifically to novices, except perhaps in places like "What the Seeker Needs", which is not that different from some of Shaykh Nazim's "Mercy Oceans" lectures, were delivered for the most part to novices and even non-Muslims. Considering the state of Dar-ul-Islam and people in general today, one would expect a modern writer to write from a somewhat different perspective. > In short, you *model* your >PR dispatches - and your Skeik's public appearances (concerts? - like a >rock star, maybe?) - on the methods of the professional deception >industry. You should see the Shaykh's black satin tour jackets, d00d! <{8{> >What's especially interesting, IMO, is that your Mad Ave. style and >rhetoric - the way you do your messages, apart from the content - reveals >so very, very much about where your master's real teachings are really >coming from. And it isn't from any real silsilah or the Prophet, al hamdu >lillah, let me clue you. It is ironic that Mad Avenue is finding out it >can't use it's usual techniques on the Internet without terribly >alienating people - they're ahead of you on that score! Please don't be coy; explain to us exactly where the teachings are coming from. If you write from sincere care for our spiritual welfare - and not because, as you put it in an earlier letter, "Well, you pushed a very hot button with this claim", then your concern will speak to our hearts and not burn them. >My advice to you is: read the classic Sufi authors, most or all of whom >warned against fraudulent Sufi masters, even - especially - the sweet and >beautiful *talkers* among them. Read also Guenon's "Reign of Quantity," >where he talks about Sheik Nazim in that book. (Oh, just kidding slightly: >he really talks about people or types very much like him). If you do, you >just might wake up to some truth and some reality. It's hard to see how there could be a more serious charge against a Shaykh than to call him a fraud. Despite your waffling a millimeter away from doing so, I hope that you will explain exactly why the Shaykh is fraudulent, what the deficiencies in his works are vis-a-vis Ibn al-Arabi, and exactly how the "cult" label fits. In my opinion, a pointer to a book is insufficient for a charge of this sort when you could simply explain your thoughts. Since you mentioned that you had personal experience of a cult, you might explain your qualification on that score. I was associated with the Church of Scientology for five years or so, so I feel confident that I recognize THAT sort of cult when I see it. Hamza From tariqas-approval Sat Aug 26 05:40:42 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03196; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 09:40:45 -0400 Received: from merhaba.cc.columbia.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03185; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 09:40:44 -0400 Received: by merhaba.cc.columbia.edu id AA29562 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for tariqas@world.std.com); Sat, 26 Aug 1995 09:40:43 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 09:40:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Zaineb Istrabadi X-Sender: zi1@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Shaykh Nazim In-Reply-To: <199508260526.WAA06215@blob.best.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. I don't write very often as you know, but I feel compelled to do so. Abd Kabir, I find your attacks on Shaykh Nazim Efendi scandalous. God knows my Naqshabandi brothers and sisters do not need *me* to jump to their defense particulary since they are far more eloquent than I am. I have not had the honor of meeting Shaykh Efendi nor Shaykh Hisham Efendi, but I have met a few of his disciples. One of them I met many years ago. The moment I laid eyes on her I was struck by her inner and outer beauty, by Beauty period, by the Nur that emanated from her face, by her quiet, strong piety. I shall never forget that moment for as long as I live. This is what I know of Nazim Efendi. And that is good enough for me to have nothing but respect for him and his khalifas, may Allah grant them good health and a long life. Wassalam. Zaineb From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 26 22:10:30 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20675; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:10:28 -0400 Received: from iconz.co.nz by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20657; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:10:25 -0400 Received: from ahmad.internet.co.nz (ahmad.internet.co.nz [202.36.39.31]) by iconz.co.nz (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id CAA11308 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:10:19 +1200 Message-Id: <199508261410.CAA11308@iconz.co.nz> X-Sender: ahmad@iconz.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:10:30 -0400 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: ahmad@iconz.co.nz Subject: 'Sheikh'Abd Kabir Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A Assalamualaikum I have been observing the tariqa nettiquette. Now I understand why Muslims are what they are now. With people like Abd Kabir, who needs shaitan! My advice to Abd Kabir is get out of this group while you can. Your views and adab doesnt reflect the majority of us here. I must apologise for being congruent. From tariqas-approval Sat Aug 26 06:40:38 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08740; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:40:40 -0400 Received: from maine.maine.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08725; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:40:38 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 10:40:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199508261440.AA08725@world.std.com> Received: from maine.maine.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Sat, 26 Aug 95 10:40:34 EDT X-Sender: mcpheran@maine.maine.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: mcpheran@maine.maine.edu (Mark McPherran) Subject: Re: 'Sheikh'Abd Kabir Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > >Assalamualaikum >I have been observing the tariqa nettiquette. Now I understand why Muslims >are what they are now. With people like Abd Kabir, who needs shaitan! My >advice to Abd Kabir is get out of this group while you can. Your views and >adab doesnt reflect the majority of us here. I must apologise for being >congruent. > > So how is it exactly that you know what the majority of us out here are thinking? And how is it that we all decided that it's a 'majority rule' sort of situation here? Is there no room for some tough talk? Who decided that? Are you the long sought-after Shaykh of Tariqas? From tariqas-approval Sat Aug 26 18:04:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27346; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 18:04:12 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 18:04:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199508262204.AA27346@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From achande@gettysburg.edu Sat Aug 26 13:57:39 1995 Return-Path: Received: from popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (diamond.cc.gettysburg.edu) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27337; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 18:04:11 -0400 Received: from [138.234.52.105] (weidensall5.mac.cc.gettysburg.edu) by popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10711; Sat, 26 Aug 95 17:57:39 EDT Date: Sat, 26 Aug 95 17:57:39 EDT Message-Id: <9508262157.AA10711@popserver.jr.cc.gettysburg.edu> Sender: achande@cc.gettysburg.edu To: tariqas@world.std.com From: achande@gettysburg.edu Subject: Help unsubscribe Salaams! Please unsubscribe me for now. I will re-join the list later when my work load is reduced. ma' salaama to all. A.C. achande@gettysburg.edu From tariqas-approval Sat Aug 26 23:47:58 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29745; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 22:48:59 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29734; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 22:48:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 22:48:58 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Naqshbandis To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. >From my limited understanding, the Naqshbandi tariqa(s) is a very widespread and diverse order, including branches which owe allegiance to Shaykh Nazim, Idries Shah, Idries Shah's brother, and other teachers. While Shaykhs Nazim and Hisham are the most widely known Naqshbandi Shaykhs, and almost certainly have the most followers, it might be more proper to refer to this branch as the Naqshbandi-Haqqani order, rather than assuming that their perspective represents all Naqshbandis. If my understanding is incorrect, I'm sure someone will correct me. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Sat Aug 26 19:31:43 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14228; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 23:31:47 -0400 Received: from junior.wariat.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14217; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 23:31:45 -0400 Received: from [199.18.253.211] (hoon.apk.net [199.18.253.211]) by junior.wariat.org (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA09418 for ; Sat, 26 Aug 1995 23:31:43 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 23:31:43 -0400 X-Sender: hoon@junior.wariat.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: hoon@apk.net Subject: Re: Naqshbandis Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaamu alaikhum Such controversy when rememberance might suffice. Just a thought. May I be forgiven, if in error. in peace, If we could give up tricks | Stephen Calhoun and cleverness that would be the | in Cleveland, Ohio cleverest trick! Rumi PBUH From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 26 22:50:58 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00852; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:51:00 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00840; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:50:59 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA13959 ; for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:50:58 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 02:50:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: 'Sheikh'Abd Kabir In-Reply-To: <199508261410.CAA11308@iconz.co.nz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 27 Aug 1995 ahmad@iconz.co.nz wrote: > > Assalamualaikum > I have been observing the tariqa nettiquette. Now I understand why Muslims > are what they are now. With people like Abd Kabir, who needs shaitan! Ah, a nettiquette police and judge and executioner all in one strikes again! For some reason, getting told I'm a standin for shaitan from the likes of you strikes me as a sort of back-handed - if unintended - compliment. > My > advice to Abd Kabir is get out of this group while you can. Really, and what are you going to do me if I don't? First time here anybody has issued a vieled threat to me, or anybody, if I can recall. Is this the sort of thing followers of Sheik Nazim do or approve of when somebody says unpleasant things about them? Given the deafening silence from his followers to this line above, I think I know the answer to my question. >Your views and > adab doesnt reflect the majority of us here. I must apologise for being > congruent. How do you know, did you take a vote? Given your veiled threat above and everything else you say, I think you reveal that you don't know anything at all about adab. But you reflect *volumes* about the real worth of the tariqa you adhere to. From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 27 00:02:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01789; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:02:56 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01773; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:02:55 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA21173 ; for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:02:55 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:02:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: re: Praising in Islam... In-Reply-To: <9508252340.AA20997@serii.sybase.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 25 Aug 1995, Mateen Siddiqui wrote: > Our shaykh's stated purpose, in coming to the West and in publicizing > his work is for only one thing: to bring as many people to Islam > and Sufism as possible. Part of that is done via PR, as you > so snidely put it, as is effective and useful. There are no billboards > or magazine ads touting our shaykh, but if that were an effective > means of bringing people to the Din, it would certainly be not only > acceptable but recommended, in shari'ah, in tariqah and in haqiqah. Such things would undoubtedly be successful for bringing people to your tariqa. But to say such would be "recommended" in shariah, tariqa and especially "haqiqah" is laughable. > However, if you have met either Shaykh Nazim or Shaykh Hisham, his > calipha, you will realize how very humble they are. > Yes, yes, we've heard this before again and again, about Rajneesh, about Muktananda, about so many others until the truth couldn't be hidden any longer... > You confuse method with content, as a person watching a battlefield > say between (your favorite example) Hitler's troops and the Allies > and says, "I see no difference between the two groups, they both > carry similar weapons, they wear similar clothing, they shout and > scream the same, obviously they are the same in intent and malice." > No, I don't think I'm confused here. > One example of what I am relating, i.e. that our shaykh's purpose is to > spread Islam and the Naqshbandiyya in the West, is his adoption of the > form of dhikr to one more palatable in the West. Usually the Khatm of > the Naqshbandiyya is done silently, as the silent dhikr is considered > preferable. However, due to the circumstances in the West, the shaykh > has concluded the louder dhikr is preferable as it has an appealing > quality to Westerners. > Therefore, he has taken the fatwa used by the 40 > other turuq which permits loud group dhikr, sometimes perhaps to the > consternation of more "orthodox" Naqshbandis. Yes, yes, we westerners come from a pretty cacophonous and noisy culture. The loud dhikr must make them feel more at home. > > His intention is that followed by the Prophet Muhammad (s), as his stated > intention was "to confront people until they say 'la ilaha ill-Allah.'" > This he spent 23 years doing. This included what you have termed > "advertising" by sending letters to the greatest leaders of his time, > the Negus of Abyssinia, the Kaiser of Persia and the Holy Roman Emperor > calling them to follow him and follow the Religion of Peace, the > Sublime Path to God. Yes, but did he, on a monthly basis, tell everybody, again and again and again, about the Big Wheels that he's gotten interested in Islam? > > As for praising a shaykh being in any way fascism, then accordingly most > of the Muslim Sufi scholars and shaykhs were fascists, [istaghfirullah] > as they praised our beloved and honored master Muhammad, they praised the > Sahaba, they praised the awliya and they praised their shaykhs. The > style employed by Fouad in previous posts is very common in Arabic > Islamic literature contrary to your statements to the contrary. It may > not be a style that appeals to the Western intellect, but is a form > very admired in Arab culture, one which is very language-oriented, > because of the use of eloquence and subtleties of the language to create > "flourishes" of meaning, like a painter on a canvas. > I guess this is an issue that your sheik has not gotten around to adjusting to the western mind set, even though, as you say, it doesn't appeal to "the Western intellect." I guess alllowing westerners to have loud dhikr sessions has a greater priority, which I can understand. But...it does still have an arbitrary air about it, not stopping western intellects from constantly hearing such praises, that it's not regarded too as "common sense" in our sport-star and movie-star and superstar-obsessed culture to put the brakes on this sort of thing vis-a-vis Sheik Nazim. > To consider such praise idolatry is simply the highest form of > ignorance, as exhibited by the Wahabis and Salafis today when they > attack Sufism. In response the Sufis say, "they never understand > the difference between worship and respect!" > Hey, I think the Wahabis and Salafis have much, much that is wrong with them, no doubt, Allah protect real Sufis from them, but sometimes even their critiques are correct when dealing with excesses among Sufis. It's shameful that Sufis will leave that field wide open to the enemies of Sufism when those who call themselves Sufis but are off-the-wall and are left unchallenged by real Sufis. Sufism's enemies use examples of wacko goofy-Sufi Sufism, so to speak, to "tar and feather* ALL of Sufism, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If one looks at the history of cultism, one always finds many instances of where the authorities had very good reasons for throwing cultic murshids, gurus and "spiritual figures" in jail. > As for needing streetcryers announcing Ibn 'Arabi's arrival, > or for that matter any shaykh's, it was not necessary and still > is not, as the sincere people are quickly pulled from whereever > they are at the approach of such Oceans of Gnosis. Our shaykh, > Mawlana Shaykh Nazim is the same way, with little or no announcement, > he is consistently greeted by hundreds sometimes thousands, wherever > he goes. The same has been said innumerable times by followers of many cultic leaders. > If what you mean to say is "today there are no more Ibn 'Arabi's" > then you are dead wrong. God said, speaking about the Forerunners > in the Race to God, "many from among the first and few from among > the Last," indicating there are always some of them present, and > God knows best. ["thulatun min al-awwaleen wa qaleelan min > al-aakhireen"] I'm not dead wrong, as this is the first thing you say that I agree with whole-heartedly. We disagree about who they are. > As to mentioning the "celebrities" and famous who meet with > our shaykhs, it is something we celebrate, as we are most happy > when we see someone pulled towards the beauty and love which > is the essence of Islam, as manifested by our shaykhs' personal > behavior and attributes. It is simply a sign of their greatness > that they are able to attract such persons, who thousands are > always attempting to attract with little success. The above shows you are dead-wrong. Celebrities can be found in all kinds of cults, regardless of the religion. I know very honest and honerable people who have met your sheik or attended his meetings, and most of them describe him with very different adjectives than you do. From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 27 00:37:38 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15167; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:37:40 -0400 Received: from access5.digex.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15134; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:37:39 -0400 Received: (from tbear@localhost) by access5.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA24289 ; for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:37:39 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 04:37:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Abdkabir To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Shaykh Nazim In-Reply-To: <199508260526.WAA06215@blob.best.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 25 Aug 1995 informe@best.com wrote: > > Please don't be coy; explain to us exactly where the teachings are coming > from. If you write from sincere care for our spiritual welfare - and not > because, as you put it in an earlier letter, "Well, you pushed a very hot > button with this claim", then your concern will speak to our hearts and > not burn them. > Most of your message has some decently-put-together points, but the blatant guilt-tripping, manipulative words above ("If you write from sincere care"), just spoiled your whole message for me. If I don't give you what you want, then I'm not sincerely concerned about everyone's spiritual welfare, right? You say I'm coy?! I won't fall for your Jesuit trap (or is it that C word that ryhmes with this?) > It's hard to see how there could be a more serious charge against a Shaykh > than to call him a fraud. Despite your waffling a millimeter away from > doing so, I hope that you will explain exactly why the Shaykh is > fraudulent, what the deficiencies in his works are vis-a-vis Ibn al-Arabi, > and exactly how the "cult" label fits. In my opinion, a pointer to a book > is insufficient for a charge of this sort when you could simply explain > your thoughts. You may not agree with this, but I sometimes think it is best to speak in a way that does not spell-it-all-out-in-excruciating-detail, in the manner of a Jesuit or typical academics. Like Voltaire with the Jesuits, and Jesus with the Pharisees, I prefer to sometimes speak in a manner that will allow those with the eyes to see the truth between the lines of what I am saying without invoking the Superstucture of Sufi Sophist dialectic that Sufi Pharisees are expert at using for covering up the truth. (And Jesus and Socrates were Sufis, although I don't think Voltaire was.) Your guilt-tripping words above is, moreover, characteristic among Sophist- Jesuit types. I only wish I were as good at it as Jesus, Socrates and Voltaire. But I'm working at it (smile). > Since you mentioned that you had personal experience of a cult, you might > explain your qualification on that score. I was associated with the Church > of Scientology for five years or so, so I feel confident that I recognize > THAT sort of cult when I see it. > It was a Sufi cult that had all the characteristics of what sociologists see to be comon in all cults. I was with it for about 5 years or so too. Hey, maybe or maybe not. it was with the Naqs! From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 26 20:41:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03136; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 06:42:01 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03122; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 06:41:59 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA19450 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 03:41:55 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 03:41:55 -0700 From: informe@best.com Message-Id: <199508271041.DAA19450@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Shaykh Nazim Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam alaikum, >> Please don't be coy; explain to us exactly where the teachings are coming >> from. If you write from sincere care for our spiritual welfare - and not >> because, as you put it in an earlier letter, "Well, you pushed a very hot >> button with this claim", then your concern will speak to our hearts and >> not burn them. >> > >Most of your message has some decently-put-together points, but the >blatant guilt-tripping, manipulative words above ("If you write from >sincere care"), just spoiled your whole message for me. If I don't give >you what you want, then I'm not sincerely concerned about everyone's >spiritual welfare, right? You say I'm coy?! I won't fall for your Jesuit >trap (or is it that C word that ryhmes with this?) You response is fine, is very illuminating, and I thank you for making it. My apologies to Tariqas readers for contributing to the thick atmosphere here, especially after the sublime posting about tact. Hamza From tariqas-approval Wed Aug 26 20:46:36 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04933; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 06:46:41 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04927; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 06:46:39 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA19737 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 03:46:36 -0700 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 03:46:36 -0700 From: informe@best.com Message-Id: <199508271046.DAA19737@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: 'Sheikh'Abd Kabir Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam alaikum, >> My advice to Abd Kabir is get out of this group while you can. > >Really, and what are you going to do me if I don't? First time here >anybody has issued a vieled threat to me, or anybody, if I can recall. > >Is this the sort of thing followers of Sheik Nazim do or approve of when >somebody says unpleasant things about them? Given the deafening silence >from his followers to this line above, I think I know the answer to my >question. For the record, I don't do or approve of this. >How do you know, did you take a vote? Given your veiled threat above and >everything else you say, I think you reveal that you don't know anything >at all about adab. But you reflect *volumes* about the real worth of the >tariqa you adhere to. He may or may not adhere to the Naqshbandi tariqat; he may simply object to the style of your postings, as have others. Hamza From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 27 10:27:44 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16759; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:28:45 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16743; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:28:44 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:28:44 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Request from Associated Press International Desk (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: From: Kutluk Ozguven > international Islamic news. Ms. Roth > [..] is not a Muslim, but is strongly sympathetic > to Islam. She reported with satisfaction a decision by AP three > weeks ago to ban the use of the term 'islamic fundamentalists' from > their reporting. Yes, but this has nothing to do with Ms Roth. You won't be seeing the term these days in "respectable" news reports, because US MoD last year decided the term was counter-productive, putting peaceful religious groups into the same category with the main enemy. So radical Islam, or Militant Islam is the new description now. I don't think Ms Roth's or anybody else's personal sympathy has anything to do with such issues. From tariqas-approval Sun Aug 27 10:38:42 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24667; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:39:44 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24656; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:39:43 -0400 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 09:39:42 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: 'Sheikh'Abd Kabir To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199508261410.CAA11308@iconz.co.nz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, If always having "the best" adab (manners) was required for membership in tariqas, we would loose many of our members (starting with the host :-). Hey, we're all human, and Insh'Allah, we're seeking as sincerely as we can. Yours, habib rose host of tariqas On Sun, 27 Aug 1995 ahmad@iconz.co.nz wrote: > > Assalamualaikum > I have been observing the tariqa nettiquette. Now I understand why Muslims > are what they are now. With people like Abd Kabir, who needs shaitan! My > advice to Abd Kabir is get out of this group while you can. Your views and > adab doesnt reflect the majority of us here. I must apologise for being > congruent. >