From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Fri Aug 9 06:22:52 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:41:49 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #94 tariqas-digest Monday, 5 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 094 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Phillips Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:01:01 +0000 Subject: Treating illness > > Very often the most innocent > >and the best souls, who have nothing but good wishes and kind > >thoughts, will be found among sufferers. --Hazrat Pir-O-Murshid > >Inayat Khan Mother Teresa of Calcutta has a dream--that before they die all people will know that they are loved. She devotes her life to making this dream a reality. She tells the story of walking past an open drain and catching a glimpse of something moving in it. She investigated and found a dying man whom she took back to a home where he could die in love and peace. "I live like an animal in the streets," the man told her. "Now I will die like an angel." "How wonderful to see a person die in love," she exclaims, "with the joy of love, the perfect peace of Christ on his face." --From "Words to Love By" by Mother Teresa Father, open our hearts just a crack, so that we too can see the light so resplendent in your kingdom of love. steve ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:01:37 +0100 Subject: Re: O FAITH Hello, folks! Thanks for all the private comments re FAITH. As a follow up to: Snip...Snip Tanzen wrote this on Sunday: "Illness is a manifestation of self-centered and morally weak behaviors. Imagine the public health problems we solve if we realize this in our country. The vast majority of our problems are due to gluttony, promiscuity, and other expressions of our spiritual bankruptcy."--in a private message sent to me This is not an all inclusive statement as I see it. This does not not account for chemical imbalances, nutritional deficiencies; My own encounter with psychiatric disorders, did not mean I was necessarily self centered and morally weak. Just as friends of mine who suffer from many diseases are not. On the contrary, my so called illness became the rock in which I came to know God as healer and remedy. Well meaning folks have thought clinical depression to be the result of sin, etc. They looked for quick get well schemes, quoting scriptures, that only burden an already suffering human being with more guild instead of recovery. The love of God is all wisdom and perfect timing, and my past experiences with mental illness is no different than some peoples bouts with diabetes or any other dibilitating disease. The amount of self centerness and moral weakness I have is not much different than any other human being; Any afflication that I have had in my life has been radically improved by the loving uncondemning prescense of my beloved Friend, giving me a rope to hang on to while s/he penetrated my soul with profound and peaceful growth. Love Kaffea Lalla {of course this is just one humble opinion{. ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 18:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: O FAITH asalaam-u-aleikum I am the one who wrote the offending quoted passages. I wrote this a long time ago, probably at least a year ago, in a completely different context in a private message. And now I see my words snipped apart almost (but alas not completely) beyond recognition, out of context (perhaps they are in another context but I am at a loss to comprehend what it is) and causing grave offense. To clarify, the part about illness being a manifestation of spiritual and moral decline was part of a description of the traditional healing beliefs and practices of a precolonial Zimbabwean tribe. I can't really remember why I was writing this, but trust me, it was relevant to that discussion. It did not mean that I think that all illness is the fault of the sufferer. The part about public health benefits that would result from changing behaviors such as overeating and promiscuity is self evident, but again should not be taken to mean that I believe that all who suffer from illness have caused it by their behavior. While I have no idea what Tanzen was trying to say, I'm sure he meant no harm by it, and I hope that this explanation is sufficient to defuse any angry feelings that have resulted from what I wrote back then. Lily ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 15:16:34 -0700 Subject: Re: O FAITH Hello, everybody! Jacquie Weller wrote: > Thanks for all the private comments re FAITH. As a follow up to: > Snip...Snip > Tanzen wrote this [reposted from a private message] on Sunday: > "Illness is a manifestation of self-centered and morally weak > behaviors. Certainly is likely true in many cases throughout human history. We are each products of generations of conditioning... Victor Hugo made popular an old sufi saying: "If you wish to change a person you need to change their great-great grandparents", meaning it is not easy to change a person, takes lots of work. Disharmony is a reflection of our weaknesses and illness results. > Imagine the public health problems we solve if we > realize this in our country. Health surely is related to morals and false ego (self-centeredness). > The vast majority of our problems > are due to gluttony, promiscuity, and other expressions of our > spiritual bankruptcy."--in a private message sent to me Health problems generally are relatied to spirituality. (If the person who sent this paragraph to me in a private messages wishes to defend it, have at it. I see the truth in it, but certainly don't wish to get personal or to make personal judgements about it. We each are our own judges and judge others as we judge ourselves. It's the law. So be it, for there is no way to break this law.) > This is not an all inclusive statement as I see it. You are right, not all inclusive, but may apply if one wishes to make judgements. I don't, other than in general terms, as I judge myself. > This does not not > account for chemical imbalances, nutritional deficiencies; Such things are a result of physical environments and generations (Hugo says at least four, and I believe it from my own experience) of community and evolution. We each are faced with "our work"... each of us are up to the task, if evolution is not to be defeated. > My own encounter > with psychiatric disorders, did not mean I was necessarily self centered and > morally weak. Of course not. Only you and your God know such things. > Just as friends of mine who suffer from many diseases are not. I believe that positive attitudes about life promote health, wholeness. Every negative thought I have had has generates some kind of dis-ease in my being. Our reaction to the diseases of others have a negative effect wiht which we all have to work. A positive reaction produces positive results, insh'Allah. > On the contrary, my so called illness became the rock in which I came to > know God as healer and remedy. That has been my identical experience, al-Hamdu'lillah. > Well meaning folks have thought clinical > depression to be the result of sin, etc. Some religious folks have thought that... > They looked for quick get well > schemes, quoting scriptures, that only burden an already suffering human > being with more guild instead of recovery. Here again, you are so right. Many of us are not conscious of what we say or do and the effect it has on others. We can bring dis-ease to others or joy. Such is by our choice. > The love of God is all wisdom > and perfect timing, and my past experiences with mental illness is no > different than some peoples bouts with diabetes or any other dibilitating > disease. True... body, mind, and spirit are one. We don't have one without the other two. > The amount of self centerness and moral weakness I have is not > much different than any other human being; This you can only judge for yourself. From my perspective, you are a kind and wonderful person, as I have, prompting you to embarassment, before said. Of course, this is just my opinion. > Any afflication that I have had > in my life has been radically improved by the loving uncondemning prescense > of my beloved Friend, giving me a rope to hang on to while s/he penetrated > my soul with profound and peaceful growth. Amen! Yes, yes... The Friend doesn't judge or condemn... we can do that for and to ourselves alone... by not loving ourselves, by not loving our neighbors, we don't love our God. > Love Kaffea Lalla {of course this is just one humble opinion{. Understand! and all I write is also my humble opinion. As we gain some truth we also gain tolerance for the opinions of others, else we really didn't gain what we thought we did. God's message is planted in our bones, in our inward parts... Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 15:16:34 -0700 Subject: Re: O FAITH Hello, everybody! Jacquie Weller wrote: > Thanks for all the private comments re FAITH. As a follow up to: > Snip...Snip > Tanzen wrote this [reposted from a private message] on Sunday: > "Illness is a manifestation of self-centered and morally weak > behaviors. Certainly is likely true in many cases throughout human history. We are each products of generations of conditioning... Victor Hugo made popular an old sufi saying: "If you wish to change a person you need to change their great-great grandparents", meaning it is not easy to change a person, takes lots of work. Disharmony is a reflection of our weaknesses and illness results. > Imagine the public health problems we solve if we > realize this in our country. Health surely is related to morals and false ego (self-centeredness). > The vast majority of our problems > are due to gluttony, promiscuity, and other expressions of our > spiritual bankruptcy."--in a private message sent to me Health problems generally are relatied to spirituality. (If the person who sent this paragraph to me in a private messages wishes to defend it, have at it. I see the truth in it, but certainly don't wish to get personal or to make personal judgements about it. We each are our own judges and judge others as we judge ourselves. It's the law. So be it, for there is no way to break this law.) > This is not an all inclusive statement as I see it. You are right, not all inclusive, but may apply if one wishes to make judgements. I don't, other than in general terms, as I judge myself. > This does not not > account for chemical imbalances, nutritional deficiencies; Such things are a result of physical environments and generations (Hugo says at least four, and I believe it from my own experience) of community and evolution. We each are faced with "our work"... each of us are up to the task, if evolution is not to be defeated. > My own encounter > with psychiatric disorders, did not mean I was necessarily self centered and > morally weak. Of course not. Only you and your God know such things. > Just as friends of mine who suffer from many diseases are not. I believe that positive attitudes about life promote health, wholeness. Every negative thought I have had has generates some kind of dis-ease in my being. Our reaction to the diseases of others have a negative effect wiht which we all have to work. A positive reaction produces positive results, insh'Allah. > On the contrary, my so called illness became the rock in which I came to > know God as healer and remedy. That has been my identical experience, al-Hamdu'lillah. > Well meaning folks have thought clinical > depression to be the result of sin, etc. Some religious folks have thought that... > They looked for quick get well > schemes, quoting scriptures, that only burden an already suffering human > being with more guild instead of recovery. Here again, you are so right. Many of us are not conscious of what we say or do and the effect it has on others. We can bring dis-ease to others or joy. Such is by our choice. > The love of God is all wisdom > and perfect timing, and my past experiences with mental illness is no > different than some peoples bouts with diabetes or any other dibilitating > disease. True... body, mind, and spirit are one. We don't have one without the other two. > The amount of self centerness and moral weakness I have is not > much different than any other human being; This you can only judge for yourself. From my perspective, you are a kind and wonderful person, as I have, prompting you to embarassment, before said. Of course, this is just my opinion. > Any afflication that I have had > in my life has been radically improved by the loving uncondemning prescense > of my beloved Friend, giving me a rope to hang on to while s/he penetrated > my soul with profound and peaceful growth. Amen! Yes, yes... The Friend doesn't judge or condemn... we can do that for and to ourselves alone... by not loving ourselves, by not loving our neighbors, we don't love our God. > Love Kaffea Lalla {of course this is just one humble opinion{. Understand! and all I write is also my humble opinion. As we gain some truth we also gain tolerance for the opinions of others, else we really didn't gain what we thought we did. God's message is planted in our bones, in our inward parts... Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: With Sadness Assalaamu alaikum, Kaffea Lalla sadly wrote: >... >Anyway I am just going to stay in the background and hopefully learn some >lessons that I need... Peace be with you Kaffea Lalla, Welcome to the background! You have loving friends here too. And watching, and listening, is good. It seems to make writing/talking/posting even more powerful. Lets see, what do you think our first lesson subject should be? Don't forget to include me on your Poetry CC: List. Here's to our future as co-learners. Your friend, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: With Sadness Assalaamu alaikum, Kaffea Lalla sadly wrote: >... >Anyway I am just going to stay in the background and hopefully learn some >lessons that I need... Peace be with you Kaffea Lalla, Welcome to the background! You have loving friends here too. And watching, and listening, is good. It seems to make writing/talking/posting even more powerful. Lets see, what do you think our first lesson subject should be? Don't forget to include me on your Poetry CC: List. Here's to our future as co-learners. Your friend, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:17:33 +0800 Subject: Cookies, Faith I wonder what a sufi will do when given a "free" cookie recipe? Perhaps she'll post it to Mother Theressa in Calcutta and let the "poor" folks bake and eat cookies? I wonder if the poor and old folks will enjoy eating cookies? They will say: "Why do you give us stone to eat?" They smile and show their mouths and said: "Look, no teeth!" Now someone has to send false teeth to those poor old folks so that they can enjoy their cookies, not just the smell of cookies. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:14:42 +0800 Subject: Rumi on sadness One can sip poison from the hand of one's silver beasted beloved. The bitterness of her words can be swallowed like sugar. Sweet is the beloved. How sweet! And where there is sweetness the bitterness of grief can be endured. (When a believer has sacrificed oneself to God, why should one be concerned over catastrophe danger, or one's own physicality? When one is going toward God, what need is of hands or feet [or even computer]? When you are going back to the maker of hands and feet, if you lose them, and go like Pharaoh's magicians, what cause is there for grief?) _From Fihi ma Fihi (It is what is is)_ ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:03:03 PST Subject: Re: O FAITH >> Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold... I will make a new >> covenant... I will put my law in their inward parts, >> and write it in their hearts; and will be their >> God... And they shall teach no more every man his >> neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know >> the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least >> of them unto the greatest of them... and I will >> remember their sin no more. (Also see Ezekiel 36:26-28.) > Perhaps we could also include the Names of God: > Al-Mu'min - The Inspirer of Faith > As-Sami - The Hearer of All > Al-Basir - The Seer of All > Al-Muhyi - The Giver of Life > An-Nafi - The Creator of Good > Al-Ghaffar - The Forgiving > Ash-Shakur - The Rewarder of Thankfulness Ya Shafee Ya Kafee - I am the healer, and the remedy - ---- A Beautiful bird came to me singing this song. <> love ya! carol ------------------------------ From: Hafizullah@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:36 -0400 Subject: Re: A good cookie is hard to find? I noticed an objection to using Tariqas for distributing cookie recipies, that we should limit our posts to discussion of sufism. I would just like to point out that this is a recipe for CHOCOLATE CHIP cookies... ;-) ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:31:29 -0400 Subject: Re: test Yes Kaffea I recieve all of your E-Mail Sh.J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 07:30:43 -0700 Subject: Re: A good cookie is hard to find? Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim Hafizullah@aol.com wrote: > > I noticed an objection to using Tariqas for distributing cookie recipies, > that we should limit our posts to discussion of sufism. > > I would just like to point out that this is a recipe for CHOCOLATE CHIP > cookies... > > ;-) Yep, and any good Buddhist or Taoist would understand! THIS IS... al-Hamdu'lillah Peace, love, harmony and beauty, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: With Sadness In a message dated 96-08-04 19:28:13 EDT, you write: > But understandably people have >been hurt by my errors; and all I can say I regret that this has happened to >people I consider >warm and loving friends. >Kaffea Lalla As-Salam Alaikum, Kaffea Please stay you are a breath of light to the list and I believe we all have hurt someone here at sometime. Even if human-beings don't forgive you ALLAH is Most Forgiving and Merciful. Your Brother & Friend Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:34:50 Subject: Re: A good cookie is hard to find? >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:36 -0400 >From: Hafizullah@aol.com >I noticed an objection to using Tariqas for distributing cookie recipies, >that we should limit our posts to discussion of sufism. > >I would just like to point out that this is a recipe for CHOCOLATE CHIP >cookies... This reminds me of something my daughter said when she was very young. My wife were involved in a metaphysical/mystical discussion at the breakfast table, then we asked my daughter "Why do you think we are here?" and she answered "To eat pancakes!" I think that response is about as profound an answer as any philosopher could have come up with, and what's more, I tend to agree with it. Of course, cookies seems to be as good a reason as pancakes also. I got the best fortune cookie in my life this past weekend. I opened it up, and it was empty -- no little piece of paper inside. Most people would consider it a defective fortune cookie, but I thought it most perfect myself. ;-) - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 07:53:08 -0700 Subject: Re: With Sadness Bismillah ar-Rahman ir-Rahim Maqam1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 96-08-04 19:28:13 EDT, you write: > > > But understandably people have > >been hurt by my errors; and all I can say I regret that this has happened to > >people I consider > >warm and loving friends. > >Kaffea Lalla > > As-Salam Alaikum, Kaffea > Please stay you are a breath of light to the list and I believe we all have > hurt someone here at sometime. Even if human-beings don't forgive you ALLAH > is Most Forgiving and Merciful. > > Your Brother & Friend > Sh. J-Kenyatta Being in the middle of the controversy, perhaps I am not the most objective one, but I see that Kaffea hurt no one, tried to be nice at all times. There is nothing to forget... she is the innocent! Yes, Sh. J-Kenyatta, Allah forgives, and forgives, and forgives, as this poor sinner knows so well. Peace and love al-Hamdu'lillah tanzen ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:43:31 PST Subject: Star Renga (15 total) STAR RENGA (15 total) (5, 7, 5 beat to the frame drum) Now, Star Light, Star Bright, Rather than a million bucks I seek to find me. -- Wahid, age 40 Star lights a thousand eyes share with me your laughter through clear winter air. -- steve what's that twinkly in your eye must be love come down shining! -- yondanoota When I see the stars The clouds have passed And God winks at thee -- Lalla Stars, why do you blink? - --Though your eyes don't always see, Light is always there. -- Tansen-Muni angels testify root and offspring glorious bright and morning stars -- tanzen, ageless Morning star rising, The golden-faced Gautama On a stony shore -- Saki Zenzaki The star rises slowly It warms my face, and heals me My heart shines more. -- Morning BEar, quickly 50 Process: Transmutation of Essence. Manifestation of Seed. Sing your mortality----loudly. -- Rashida out of the vacuum subatomic particles stars bright that is us -- tanzen northern lights sweep horizon her eyes on fire leaping stardust shining there ....aarifa starlight shining bright grant this wish for me tonight set this heart on fire -- carol, not yet born All the long night without blinking I watch the stars and they watch me finally, my heart is there. -- steve, greyhair Knees bent in helming Huge, 'green' foam hissing below Stars guiding the masts -- Azad before the stars were born into our consciousness I am One with Thee -- woodsong, older than the trees ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:38:33 +0800 Subject: star renga (16) STAR RENGA (16 total) (5, 7, 5 beat to the frame drum) Now, Star Light, Star Bright, Rather than a million bucks I seek to find me. -- Wahid, age 40 Star lights a thousand eyes share with me your laughter through clear winter air. -- steve what's that twinkly in your eye must be love come down shining! -- yondanoota When I see the stars The clouds have passed And God winks at thee -- Lalla Stars, why do you blink? - --Though your eyes don't always see, Light is always there. -- Tansen-Muni angels testify root and offspring glorious bright and morning stars -- tanzen, ageless Morning star rising, The golden-faced Gautama On a stony shore -- Saki Zenzaki The star rises slowly It warms my face, and heals me My heart shines more. -- Morning BEar, quickly 50 Process: Transmutation of Essence. Manifestation of Seed. Sing your mortality----loudly. -- Rashida out of the vacuum subatomic particles stars bright that is us -- tanzen northern lights sweep horizon her eyes on fire leaping stardust shining there ....aarifa starlight shining bright grant this wish for me tonight set this heart on fire -- carol, not yet born All the long night without blinking I watch the stars and they watch me finally, my heart is there. -- steve, greyhair Knees bent in helming Huge, 'green' foam hissing below Stars guiding the masts -- Azad before the stars were born into our consciousness I am One with Thee -- woodsong, older than the trees sebelum bintang-bintang lahir dalam kesedaran kita Akulah Satu dengan-Mu --maarof ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #94 ****************************