From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Fri Aug 16 11:12:11 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:20:58 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #99 tariqas-digest Sunday, 11 August 1996 Volume 01 : Number 099 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 13:55:56 PST Subject: Re: STAR RENGA >Self existent star... >Teach that secret >to this seeker...here and now > --Abraham Sarmad Thank you so much for this Beautiful contribution! Apparently i made a mistake in attempting to 'share' poetry between two forums. I apologize to everyone for that... but i hope that we will continue to share what is our Heart.... I believe that poetry goes beyond all the 'boundaries' of forums, culture, gender -- even language... Poetry can never be owned or even held on to... it is the wind... it is that Sweet Whisper.... it is, when we step aside and allow it to BE... Love! Thank you, Abraham Sarmad! You gave me what i needed to hear.... much Love to all.... i will not be 'copying' this renga to any other forums... but let that not stop us from spreading the message of Love -- heart to heart .... always and forever.... many blessings and much thanks! carol ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 14:42:33 -0700 Subject: Re: The Qur'an ought to be the Criterion Hello, everybody! Michael Moore wrote: [...] > And no doubt he never missed a prayer and was the most pious of men. How would we know? > How can we then avoid the conclusions that Ghazali drew regarding women? He was a product of his time and place, just as we are today. > Of course the only answer can be expansion of the heart which leads to > direct mystical experience of the truth. Yep, Michael, many call that "expansion of the heart", GNOSIS, i.e., Marifah or intuition, where you know something through it being revealed to you, knowledge beyond the intellectual, knowledge of the VOID, from which comes the create, i.e., manifestation. Towards The One, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Hudoyo Hupudio Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 06:30:19 +0700 Subject: STAR RENGA (23 total) > STAR RENGA (23 total) (5, 7, 5 beat to the frame drum, or any drum >beat :) > >Now, Star Light, Star Bright, >Rather than a million bucks >I seek to find me. -- Wahid, age 40 > >Star lights a thousand eyes >share with me your laughter >through clear winter air. -- steve > >what's that twinkly in your eye >must be love come down shining! -- yondanoota > >When I see the stars >The clouds have passed >And God winks at thee -- Lalla > >Stars, why do you blink? >--Though your eyes don't always see, >Light is always there. -- Tansen-Muni > >angels testify >root and offspring glorious >bright and morning stars -- tanzen, ageless > >Morning star rising, >The golden-faced Gautama >On a stony shore -- Saki Zenzaki > >The star rises slowly >It warms my face, and heals me >My heart shines more. -- Morning BEar, quickly 50 > >Process: >Transmutation of Essence. >Manifestation of Seed. >Sing your mortality----loudly. -- Rashida > >out of the vacuum >subatomic particles >stars bright that is us -- tanzen > >northern lights sweep horizon >her eyes on fire >leaping stardust shining there ....aarifa > >starlight shining bright >grant this wish for me tonight >set this heart on fire -- carol, not yet born > >All the long night without blinking >I watch the stars and they watch me >finally, my heart is there. -- steve, greyhair > >Knees bent in helming >Huge, 'green' foam hissing below >Stars guiding the masts -- Azad > >before the stars were >born into our consciousness >I am One with Thee -- woodsong, older than the trees > >sebelum bintang-bintang >lahir dalam kesedaran kita >Akulah Satu dengan-Mu --maarof > >>From a star's shining beam >descend's a heavenly being filled with love >a new life is born --Ruthie, new to >grand-parenthood > >civilized lights gone >deep black spilled with milky white >covers us in awe --junnayid, what age is this? > >* Ovals* @Aliens@ >*Stars* Mobius strip with an >Infinity twist --wahid wideeyed > >All the fixed stars move. >The brightest stars are planets. >Inspirational! --Malik, in the Age of Aquarius > >light seeing the star >the star is looking at we >eight seven nova -- abdul karim > >Self existent star... >Teach that secret >to this seeker...here and now --Abraham Sarmad Thousand stars twinkling Yonder in a starry night Beckoning to me As I gaze on them Lo... there is One, Wonderful Shining in my heart --hudoyo ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 01:01:45 -0400 Subject: Re: So Long/ Maqam1(A" # 3) In a message dated 96-08-10 17:40:59 EDT, you write: >>MAQAM1/CEO57: >>What was my purpose here in this life? > >MP:Also, is there a "me" to have a purpose? Salaam my dear Friend MP, I have made Q # 2, answer #3, After all my travel in life which had been more bad than good, as I was seeking I came to the doorway which read you are lost and what I recieve was a final understanding that ALLAH was the GOD of my understanding and what was here before me ALLAH, Who is with me in true reality ALLAH, and Who shall Be when I pass on from the illusion of this earth ALLAH, ALLAH, ALLAH. So there is a me fore he was merciful enough to bring me from the darkness into the light and I Thank Him for bringing you to AOL. Here is something for you: Once the seeker finds his treasure he/she still has work to do? I'm still a diamond in the ruff, Sh. J-Kenyatta ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 01:15:38 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Returned mail:Answers to Q's 1 & 2(So Long) In a message dated 96-08-11 00:29:27 EDT, MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) writes: >>Is this a useful question? We all have identities as >>matters of convenience -- doctor, writer, shaykh, CEO >>-- and names either given to us at birth or chosen >>for other reasons. > >Salaam to you Bruce, >As I've read your e-mail it was interesting in a worldly kind of way, Have >you not as who is Bruce? >I'm only a Shakyh because of ALLAH and my students, this isn't something I >decided to call myself this has happen only by the grace and mercy of my >Higher Power, who has sent me people in my life that feel I can benefit them >spiritually. So NO I'm not a title seeker human-beings were given titles long >before we were created upon this earth, such as; Creation, Human-Beings, Men, >Women, Children etc. > >Here are the answers to 2 of the Q"s: > >1. I'm only a slave servant to ALLAH one of HIS creations who has a lot to >work on from with-in. > >2. My purpose for being is to worship GOD and to have humble compassion >toward all creation from the smallest insect to the largest mammal. > >Love & Peace ># 3 is coming later >Maqam1 > >--AAA03519.839737866/emout08.mail.aol.com-- - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: Maqam1@aol.com Date: 96-08-11 00:29:27 EDT This is a MIME-encapsulated message - --AAA03519.839737866/emout08.mail.aol.com The original message was received at Sun, 11 Aug 1996 00:30:32 -0400 from root@localhost If you are unsure of the correct email address for a particular AOL user, please visit the NameSearch website at: http://www.idot.aol.com/search Here you will find instructions and a simple form to locate the email address you are looking for! -AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- Listing-l@zrz.tu-berlin.de(listing) (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 Unknown local user 'Listing-l' 550 Listing-l@zrz.tu-berlin.de(listing)... User unknown ----- Original message follows ----- - --AAA03519.839737866/emout08.mail.aol.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Maqam1@aol.com Received: by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA03518; Sun, 11 Aug 1996 00:30:32 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 00:30:32 -0400 From: Maqam1@aol.com Message-ID: <960811003031_176091941@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: editor@juno.com cc: Listing-l@zrz.tu-berlin.de (listing) Subject: Re: So Long/Maqam1 In a message dated 96-08-10 13:12:37 EDT, you write: >Is this a useful question? We all have identities as >matters of convenience -- doctor, writer, shaykh, CEO >-- and names either given to us at birth or chosen >for other reasons. Salaam to you Bruce, As I've read your e-mail it was interesting in a worldly kind of way, Have you not as who is Bruce? I'm only a Shakyh because of ALLAH and my students, this isn't something I decided to call myself this has happen only by the grace and mercy of my Higher Power, who has sent me people in my life that feel I can benefit them spiritually. So NO I'm not a title seeker human-beings were given titles long before we were created upon this earth, such as; Creation, Human-Beings, Men, Women, Children etc. Here are the answers to 2 of the Q"s: 1. I'm only a slave servant to ALLAH one of HIS creations who has a lot to work on from with-in. 2. My purpose for being is to worship GOD and to have humble compassion toward all creation from the smallest insect to the largest mammal. Love & Peace # 3 is coming later Maqam1 - --AAA03519.839737866/emout08.mail.aol.com-- ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:18:17 +0100 Subject: Re: Diamond/in the rough Even a flawed diamond has many sparkles Allah makes every single sparkle, give so much light. The polishing and grinding is not much fun But without it, we would always be Stuck in the mud. Love Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 13:19:13 -0400 Subject: Re: So Long/ Maqam1(Harden Ego) In a message dated 96-08-11 12:06:55 EDT, you write: >but questioning the whole >notion of there being an ongoing "me" that can be in a relationship with >ALLAH. If we look closer and closer at the idea of who or what we think we >are, is there anyone separate from ALLAH from the first or is that division >only imputed by thought? > >If a seeker thinks he has found treasure, he is working too hard. The work >or effort of the seeker seems to be the very affirmation of separation that >obscures the diamond. Perhaps it is this unexposed effort of a "seeker" that >hides the diamond. Dear MP if you wanted to know about ego then you should have said so, Let's clear your mind once and for all. I was in seclusion for 5 years in strict meditation and prayer and when I arose from the darkness of my harden ego it wasn't harden at all because I return riding it and not it still riding ME. Now your next Q' should be who took you through this seclusion? Answer: 1.ALLAH, My Shakyh, The Quran, Shaitan So if there is no me then there is no you either, the me who I have become is nothingness and until a person comes into the realm of nothingness how can they truly say they love and worship ALLAH totally if they choose to worship a higher power at all and if they choose not to worship then then my Q' to you is this; 2. Could there harden Ego let them truly love, show mercy or compassion? So if I truly thought I was a diamond, fore humans look at the diamond as a source of perfection so when my students(mureeds) say I'm a diamond I reply in the" rough" fore I say the only perfection is ALLAH. Maqam1 ------------------------------ From: gmtn@mail.comet.net (Green Mountain School) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 13:33:41 -0500 Subject: why one doesn't post often as-salaamu 'alaykum maarof wrote >"So Lalla, any idea why the majority of Tariqas e-mail list don't post to Habib?" I don't know why the majority don't post but I know that I do not post {but do read or sample the postings} because the majority of threads are almost always along heterodox lines which may have something to do with later day soupism but little to do with sufism as it has been understood and practiced these past 1400+ years. I have found posting from a traditional perspective which is admantly Islamic {for sufism is was and will be at the heart of islam} stirs up arguments, controversy and intolerance. In short there is nothing much to say without it being mis-understood and jumped on by people who, from a traditional perspective, are trying to re-invent the wheel in order, it would seem, to appease, gratify or justify their own nafs: advocates of the Frank Sinatra School {"I'll do it my way."}. Islam inevitably is about surrender which seems to present a very big obstacle and remain quite unpopular for understandable reasons to the advocates of the new-age melange which trys to pass itself off on the unkowledgable or uncaring as 'sufism'. So I for one don't bother to post except now and then for I have found none so intolerant of Islam and the true message at its heart as those who profess tolerance for everything. A. N. Durkee Green Mountain ------------------------------ From: "Erik S. Ohlander" Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 13:09:29 Subject: RE: why one doesn't post often as salamu 'alaykum- al hamdulillah!!!!!!!! Erik. >In short there is nothing much to say without it being mis-understood and >jumped on by people who, from a traditional perspective, are trying to >re-invent the wheel in order, it would seem, to appease, gratify or justify their own nafs: advocates of the Frank Sinatra School {"I'll do it my way."}. > >Islam inevitably is about surrender which seems to present a very big >obstacle and remain quite unpopular for understandable reasons to the >advocates of the new-age melange which trys to pass itself off on the >unkowledgable or uncaring as 'sufism'. > >So I for one don't bother to post except now and then for I have found >none so intolerant of Islam and the true message at its heart as those who >profess tolerance for everything. > >A. N. Durkee >Green Mountain > > > ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 11:50:41 -0700 Subject: Re: why one doesn't post often Green Mountain School wrote: > > as-salaamu 'alaykum > > maarof wrote > > >"So Lalla, any idea why the majority of Tariqas e-mail list > don't post to Habib?" > > I don't know why the majority don't post but I know that I do not post > So I for one don't bother to post except now and then for I have found > none so intolerant of Islam and the true message at its heart as those who > profess tolerance for everything. > > A. N. Durkee > Green Mountain So very easy to be either classical Sufi or sufi universal, but very difficult to be human being. tanzen ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:33:16 PST Subject: Re: why one doesn't post often On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 Green Mountain School writes: >as-salaamu 'alaykum >I have found posting from a traditional perspective which is admantly >Islamic {for sufism is was and will be at the heart of islam} stirs up >arguments, controversy and intolerance. Even the posting of poetry can tend to stir up those things! :) Maybe if we look at this forum as a place to learn what other's see, we can all benefit? I would like to hear your 'traditional perspective'... if that stirs up controversy... we can learn from that too, yes? >Islam inevitably is about surrender which seems to present a very big >obstacle and remain quite unpopular for understandable reasons to the >advocates of the new-age melange which trys to pass itself off on the >unkowledgable or uncaring as 'sufism'. okay. I've been warned not to do this... but i'm throwing caution to the wind these days! ... I am one of the 'unknowledgable'. I wish to see Truth. I wish to do God's Will. I have absolutely no undersatanding of Islam -- but i do have an intense desire to "surrender to Allah".... TELL ME how to do that! >So I for one don't bother to post except now and then for I have >found >none so intolerant of Islam and the true message at its heart as those >who >profess tolerance for everything. So, talk to me! I wish to listen. I may, or may not agree with what you believe, but i would certainly like to explore how other's see.... Whether or not everyone tolerates your 'view', doesn't really matter, does it? thanks for your post! love, carol ------------------------------ From: "Bryce G. Hoffman" Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 14:22:44 -0700 Subject: Help on the Path. Assalamu alaikum. I have been following this discussion group through its archives, but have only just subscribed. I have been trying to learn as much about Sufism as possible through the Internet, with mixed success. I feel the time has come for me to choose an Order, but I still have many questions (read nafs). I would very much like to hear from anyone out there who is part of an active Order. I am particularly interested in the Naqahbandi-Haqqani tariqa, but would like to hear from as many different voices as possible. Thank you all in advance. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --> Bryce G. Hoffman literati@goldrush.com www.goldrush.com/~literati <--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- ------------------------------ From: "Bryce G. Hoffman" Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 14:22:44 -0700 Subject: Help on the Path. Assalamu alaikum. I have been following this discussion group through its archives, but have only just subscribed. I have been trying to learn as much about Sufism as possible through the Internet, with mixed success. I feel the time has come for me to choose an Order, but I still have many questions (read nafs). I would very much like to hear from anyone out there who is part of an active Order. I am particularly interested in the Naqahbandi-Haqqani tariqa, but would like to hear from as many different voices as possible. Thank you all in advance. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --> Bryce G. Hoffman literati@goldrush.com www.goldrush.com/~literati <--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:23:28 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: why one doesn't post often Assalamu alaikum, On Sun, 11 Aug 1996, Carol Woodsong wrote: > On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 Green Mountain School writes: > > >I have found posting from a traditional perspective which is admantly > >Islamic {for sufism is was and will be at the heart of islam} stirs up > >arguments, controversy and intolerance. [...] > >Islam inevitably is about surrender which seems to present a very big > >obstacle and remain quite unpopular for understandable reasons to the > >advocates of the new-age melange which trys to pass itself off on the > >unkowledgable or uncaring as 'sufism'. > > okay. I've been warned not to do this... but i'm throwing caution to the > wind these days! ... I am one of the 'unknowledgable'. I wish > to see Truth. I wish to do God's Will. I have absolutely no > undersatanding of Islam -- but i do have an intense desire to "surrender > to Allah".... TELL ME how to do that! I am not qualified to give people instruction on the Sufi path, but I expect some people are keen, then when an authentic Sufi teacher asks them to do something, they refuse to do it. Many people like to mold God in their own image, which is the opposite of what should be done on the true path. Which reminds me of the following story: ============================================================================= There was a certain ascetic who was one of the great saints of Bestam. He had his own followers and admirers, and at the same time he was never absent from the circle of Abu Yazid al-Bistami. He listened to all his discourses, and sat with his companions. One day he remarked to Abu Yazid, "Master, today is thirty years that I have been keeping constant fast. By night too I pray, so that I never sleep at all. Yet I discover no trace of this knowledge of which you speak. For all that I believe in this knowledge, and I love this preaching." "If for three hundred years," said Abu Yazid, "you fast by day and pray by night, you will never realize one atom of this discourse." "Why?" asked the disciple. "Because you are veiled by your own self," Abu Yazid replied. "What is the remedy for this?" the man asked. "You will never accept it," answered Abu Yazid. "I will so," said the man. "Tell me, so that I may do as you prescribe." "Very well," said Abu Yazid. "This very hour go and shave your beard and hair. Take off these clothes you are wearing, and tie a loincloth of goat's wool about your waist. Hang a bag of nuts around your neck, then go to the marketplace. Collect all the children you can, and tell them, `I will give a nut to everyone who slaps me.' Go round all the city in the same way; especially go everywhere people know you. That is your cure." "Glory be to God! There is no god but God," cried the disciple on hearing these words. "If a nonbeliever uttered that formula, he would become a believer," remarked Abu Yazid. "By uttering the same formula you have become a polytheist." "How so?" demanded the disciple. "Because you count yourself too grand to be able to do as I have said," replied Abu Yazid. "So you have become a polytheist. You used this formula to express your own importance, not to glorify God." "This I cannot do," the man protested. "Give me other directions." "The remedy is what I have said," Abu Yazid declared. "I cannot do it," the man repeated. "Did I not say you would not do it, that you would never obey me?" said Abu Yazid. [From the "Memorial of the Saints" of Fariduddin Attar.] ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 16:09:12 -0700 Subject: Re: So Long/ Maqam1(Harden Ego) Maqam1@aol.com wrote: [...] > Dear MP if you wanted to know about ego then you should have said so, Let's > clear your mind once and for all. I get mine cleared at the same time. > I was in seclusion for 5 years in strict meditation and prayer and when I > arose from the darkness of my harden ego it wasn't harden at all because I > return riding it and not it still riding ME. Okay. > Now your next Q' should be who took you through this seclusion? > Answer: 1.ALLAH, My Shakyh, The Quran, Shaitan That is a path, for sure. > So if there is no me then there is no you either, the me who I have become > is nothingness and until a person comes into the realm of nothingness how can > they truly say they love and worship ALLAH totally if they choose to worship > a higher power at all Your logic is without flaw, none that this soul can find. > and if they choose not to worship then then my Q' to you is this: > 2. Could there harden Ego let them truly love, show mercy or compassion? My humble answer would be "no". > So if I truly thought I was a diamond, fore humans look at the diamond as a > source of perfection so when my students(mureeds) say I'm a diamond I reply > in the "rough" fore I say the only perfection is ALLAH. Maqam1, you have been through much, learned much, know much, pray that I can do the same, brother. Omar Khayaam's "Rubaiyyat", Omar Ali-Shah translations with Robert Graves settings to verse 25: Some ponder long on doctrine and belief, Some teeter between certitude and doubt. Suddenly out of hiding leaps the Guide With: "Fools, the Way is neither that nor this." Peace and love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 17:12:45 +0100 Subject: Sufi and Re: to postings I know there are many views of sufi. I am of the Ruhaniat Order. I have a friend also who is a Muslim, not a sufi. I don't understand what some mean by new age sufi? I have an initiator and practice Dhikr. I hope this does not make me any less than anyone here on Tariqas. I try to be open to all who share here, and not step on toes, intentionally. Sometimes I have said things that are not what the Quran says, and it is because I haven't had the background that muslims and certain islams have. The only bible I know anything about is the old and new testament from king james and other translations. If it was not for being in my sufi order, I would not have learned Alhumdililah, Allahoakbar, etc. These are probably mispelled. I just know how to pronounce these names a little. The little I have learned has helped me to feel closer and more akin to islam and at least knowing something is better than completely being in the dark as I was a couple of yrs. ago. What I am saying is that without this experience in the sufi order, I would have no understanding at all about Islam, Rumi, Sheiks, The Quran. One thing I would wish is when you use Arabic terms is that you could please put the translation in english, so I can learn more from your beautiful words. Love Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:24:04 -0400 Subject: Re:Thanks for the input /Maqam1(Harden Ego) In a message dated 96-08-11 19:16:31 EDT, you write: >Maqam1, you have been through much, learned much, know much, pray that I >can do the same, brother. > >Omar Khayaam's "Rubaiyyat", Omar Ali-Shah translations with >Robert Graves settings to verse 25: > > Some ponder long on doctrine and belief, > Some teeter between certitude and doubt. > Suddenly out of hiding leaps the Guide > With: "Fools, the Way is neither that nor this." > >Peace and love, > >tanzen > > > I have been dealing with this subject Tanzen for a week and it is teaching me more patience, This came about when I unsubscribe to a meditation list and 2 months later some of the people on the list felt for some reason I left because of ego maybe because my stay there had only been a 2 -3 weeks, so I decided to CC: some of this later conversation to tariqas list to get some input and I really thank you and anyone else for a shoulder to lean on. Keep in Touch Maqam1 ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #99 ****************************