From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:35:01 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:30:27 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #53 tariqas-digest Wednesday, 10 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 053 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lilyan Kay Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Stoning and re:questions On Mon, 8 Jul 1996, Jacquie Weller wrote: > Dear lily, in response to your question would I want to live anywhere where > there was no legal actions, (for ex. crimes), no. > > I am not questioning the authenticity of the Quaran, or the Bible, exactly. > When there is something I do not understand I asked wiser people than me to > explain it as I have done here. asalaam-u-aleikum And you are yourself brave and wise to do so. Many will only ask in in secret, never in public. And so the misconceptions and assumptions grow. Please don't ever stop asking the questions that should be asked. Lily ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 23:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Press reports on Muslim counties On Tue, 9 Jul 1996 maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > > > Dear Lily, > > I won't believe 100 percent all the reports from the wire agencies. Usually > such reports originated from local newspaper reports, and then rewritten to > suit the taste of American reading public (in the case of AP, UPI) and > British and the rest of English speaking world (in case of Reuters). > asalaam-u-aleikum I don't believe it is necessarily true, and I also don't have any doubt that it is entirely possible. I know as an American that we not only have a press that lies to promote its political agenda (which right now centers largely around Islam bashing), but that we have the most inhuman prison system in the world right here. In my own experience, brutalized Muslim women seeking help from Islamic religious leaders are likely get responses ranging from apathy and avoidance to blaming the victim. This is not to tar them all with the same brush, but this is unfortunately what I have experienced and witnessed both here and in the middle east. Lily ------------------------------ From: Gale Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 00:02:09 -0700 Subject: RE: Press reports on Muslim counties - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6D2A.019AD940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maroof... IMHO, the legal system in Pakistan is dreadful. I've spoken = with a number of the leading Pakistani feminists, and what I've heard = them report to me is absolutely disgraceful. Sorry. I've been around = this shit for so long that I'm tempted to say that the news agencies = aren't reporting enough. Besides, what goes on in the villages is a far = cry from what happens in the major cities. Blessings, Nur - ---------- From: maarof@pc.jaring.my[SMTP:maarof@pc.jaring.my] Sent: Monday, July 08, 1996 10:24 PM To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: Press reports on Muslim counties I don't think the legal system in Pakistan and Bangladesh is that bad. = However, it might happened in isolated place, on remote place, but highlighted in = local press, but the international version in your newspaper, gives the = impression=20 such case is rampant in those countries. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6D2A.019AD940 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgYHAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAAB0YXJpcWFzQGV1cm9wZS5zdGQuY29tAFNNVFAAdGFyaXFhc0BldXJvcGUuc3RkLmNv bQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABcAAAB0YXJpcWFzQGV1cm9wZS5zdGQuY29t AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAZAAAAJ3RhcmlxYXNAZXVyb3BlLnN0ZC5jb20nAAAA AAIBCzABAAAAHAAAAFNNVFA6VEFSSVFBU0BFVVJPUEUuU1RELkNPTQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAA AgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA+o4AQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgBBIAB ACUAAABSRTogUHJlc3MgcmVwb3J0cyBvbiBNdXNsaW0gY291bnRpZXMASw0BBYADAA4AAADMBwcA CQAAAAIACQACAPAAASCAAwAOAAAAzAcHAAgAFwA5ACYAAQBZAQEJgAEAIQAAADQ4QThBMzJGMUNE OUNGMTE5OURFNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAAoHAQOQBgAYBQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AKDu04tkbbsBHgBwAAEAAAAlAAAAUkU6IFByZXNzIHJlcG9ydHMgb24g TXVzbGltIGNvdW50aWVzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7bWSL0y+jqEnZHBHPmd5ERVNUAAAAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAZ2FsZUBzaW5ld2F2ZS5jb20AAAADAAYQfug1 6gMABxC4AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAATUFST09GSU1ITyxUSEVMRUdBTFNZU1RFTUlOUEFLSVNUQU5J U0RSRUFERlVMSVZFU1BPS0VOV0lUSEFOVU1CRVJPRlRIRUxFQURJTkdQQUtJU1RBTklGRU1JTklT VFMsQU5EVwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAI4DAACKAwAAGAYAAExaRnWMINGf/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJ AgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzO3AuQHEwKDNBLMFMV9CoA/CM8J2QKA CoENsQtgbmf4MTAzFFALChViAdAF0CEKwG9vZi4bUCBJAE1ITywgdGhlkCBsZWcHQCBzE7PCIAuA IFBhawQAAZATA6AEACBkF6BhZGZMdWwbcBuAJ3YcEHNocG9rCfAgA/Ab8CCwYSBudQbQBJAgGzAX G+UeIAuAZx0naSBmtxPgC4AdYXMb0ABwZB9Q/xGABUAeoxwACxEb4hzgF6DnHwAAIBvgbyAHgB2y AaDKcwbwdRPQbHkd4AQALwnAANANwB5TUwWwcnnvHnYgAB8xGwF1IpEb8B3B/nMoQAVAAhAFwCUw HCACIP8hEBvwIuMc4BPRBTAJgCRy3HNhJaApkxvybgfQJPE6ZwnwYwiQJPEXoG4nnwVAJBQg8gnw CGBnaBtwOkIHkGkNsCJRIsNnb+8HkQIgHPIb8nYDEAtgLAD/BCAk4iHACsEFACWgA1IitHkRgHBw CfAwUS+EAMBqbwWxLDAtQAeQLgqFCoVC/xwwBBAg8SJRB7AIcDOsCvQgbGkxODAC0WkteDE0NA3w DNA3UwtZMa42CqADYBPQYwVALTl3rwqHOCsMMDj2RgNhOjp+Dzj2DIIywRsBZkBwYwwuagrAIPEu bXlbYFNNVFA6Pj8/QF2/Oh87LQZgAjA8Xz1rTQIgNmQq4BvQSh5QJaAwOCEb0DE5OTZGIDA6NDI0 HSBNQQ87LVRvD0NPPWsBkAUQcWFzQCplCHBvMhAuE8BkLo0FoG1HD0IedWJqOTF7SS89a1AXoAQR JBQvI038dXM2sBzgBaAn8DNSNX/5NoMzNjf3FFEL8jj2M6w9CoVJHeACICzBKDFua/cb7xz7IoJC GUELYC5RH5AbHcEpk2IeIBtwSG938mUewHIsCoUooSHwLdD/McYqcR0BBAAG8CLgKnELUX8mIBvQ L0EXoARgE9BeNmJ/JWAjUFyhNrBcsV1UFzBj/wdACoUTUDShX6RX4guAE9D7BKAi4GkCIFhRW7EA kC9EfnkIYSuTCrAyEFvQLuBpfx7AWrIkwSpAUMJjwgqFc/51EXAw8EtQJMMmACpAAHD7BUAvc29n YVIzCIEzjmnvL1NfVG9VeRbBAG5wAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMEDUO+pjbbsBQAAIMEDU O+pjbbsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAffg== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB6D2A.019AD940-- ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 17:40:58 +0800 Subject: RE: Press reports on Muslim counties On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Gale wrote: >Maroof... IMHO, the legal system in Pakistan is dreadful. I've spoken with a number of the leading Pakistani feminists, and what I've heard them report to me is absolutely disgraceful. Sorry. I've been around this shit for so long that I'm tempted to say that the news agencies aren't reporting enough. Besides, what goes on in the villages is a far cry from what happens in the major cities. > >Blessings, Nur > Thanks Nur, I'm surprised if that's true considering Pakistan and Bangladesh are the few Muslim countries ruled by women Presidents. However, there are other factors such as poverty, which can lead to decline in society. Is it really bad? I read too much agencies reports on Muslim countries, and what I saw was a subtle attack on Islam and trying to impose "their way" on others. I talked with the not-so-leading journalists from the West, and what's happening was these international agencies was only feeding what the Western readers want, not really to report the truth (all sides of the story), but the "truth" as they "want" it. God knows best. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: shuja@biruni.erum.com.pk Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 17:25 PDT Subject: Male/female and religion (was Re: full moon - religion -Reply ) <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> Return-Path: Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 11:59:26 -0700 From: "E.Phil Konigsberg" To: celestine-l@newciv.org Subject: Male/female and religion (was Re: full moon - religion -Reply ) tdee@intermind.net wrote: > > As far as making the "force" one sex or another--(snip) ... I think these are > just convenient symbols or symbolic ways to understand the eminations of the > "force or God, or G-d, Higher Power," etc. Making them male or female or even > androgynous is just a convience for our understanding. The source of this comes from the Aramaic, where all words are either male of female. Kabbalisticly, male refers to "positive energy" a sort of spiritual "electron giver" and female refers to "negative energy" or "receiver". Then it was later misconstrued (by the pagans for one) as sexual "male/female" which is not the way it's meant to be understood. In Aramaic, a desk is shulchan which is a male word. But a desk doesn't have a penis nor is it agressive or anything like the male of any species. G-d is refered to by 10 different labels in Aramaic, some of the labels are male, some are female, some are singular, others plural. These refer to the 10 Divine Emanations of G-dliness that are perceptable by us. I have never heard of any discussion by rabbis or prophets that try to pin G-d down to being male and the Earth being female, as this refers to only G-d's emanations, and G-d Himself is not of a sex, and Mother Nature or Mother Earth are just created beings like us and have no reflection on the sex of the One that created them. It seems to me that the easiest emanation of G-d to perceive is Mother Nature, in Aramaic Elokim (male-plural) and in Kabalistic teachings Tiferet within Binah (the Beauty aspect in the Tree of Knowledge), which is male within female. But trying to comprehend why this is a female word and why that is male word is possible, though maybe not worth our effort. In Torah, The Six Days of Creation are the determinant factor of what is male or female energy. As to the significance this has in our lives, I do not know. Ciao for now, - -Phil ??\ /?? ################################# ??| |?? Speed of lighting # ??| |?? Roar of Thunder # ??| |?? Fighting all who rob or plunder # ??\ /?? Underdog... Underdog! # ???????? ################################# ~~~~~~~~ <---- End Forwarded Message ----> ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 06:58:59 -0700 Subject: RUMI #945 A VOICE OUT OF THIS WORLD calls on our souls not to wait any more get ready to move to the original home your real home your real birth place is up here with the heavens let your soul take a flight like a happy phoenix you've been tied up your feet in the mud your body roped to a log break loose your ties get ready for the final flight make your last journey from this strange world soar for the heights where there is no more separation of you and your home God has created your wings not to be dormant as long as you are alive you must try more and more to use your wings to show you're alive these wings of yours are filled with quests and hopes if they are not used they will wither away they will soon decay you may not like what i'm going to tell you you are stuck now you must seek nothing but the source RUMI, ghazal number 945, translated May 18, 1992, by Nader Khalili. tanzen ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:10:34 -0700 Subject: Re: More Questions maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > > On Mon, 08 Jul 1996, "Michael J. Moore" wrote: > >Jacquie Weller wrote: > >> > >> >From my background in reading the King James Bible, and the Quaran a little, > >> I am left with many doubts. Parts speak right to my heart and I can say AH > yes, > >> other parts, I do not understand. > >snip- > >> Love Kaffea Lalla. > > > [...] > > >The Quaran says, kill the kafir (un-believer) that is nearest to you. > >Some have taken this to mean that you may kill non-muslims. > >A good shaykh will tell you that it refers to your nafs,- you > >must kill your nafs. > > > >So, to me, you seems to be in the right place. > >-- > >Best Wishes, > >Brother Michael http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 > > > > The Quran says, kill the unbelievers nearest to me? Hmmm... I've never met > this verse, Michael. However, there are verses about the conduct of war, > and what struck me most is that Muslims are prohibited from attacking > anyone who seek refuge in places of worship (church, synagogoue, temple). > > > salam > maarof Please forgive my poor memory and translation. I was thinking of sura 9.5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free, L0! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. " PICKTHALL Anyway, it does not sound to good, taken out of context. The Quaran must always be read in context and with the knowlege of abrogation in order the get the right meaning. - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 03:04:13 +0800 Subject: An-Nisaa (Women) On Mon, 8 Jul 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: >asalaam-u-aleikum > >I don't believe it is necessarily true, and I also don't have any doubt >that it is entirely possible. I know as an American that we not only have >a press that lies to promote its political agenda (which right now centers >largely around Islam bashing), but that we have the most inhuman prison >system in the world right here. In my own experience, brutalized Muslim >women seeking help from Islamic religious leaders are likely get responses >ranging from apathy and avoidance to blaming the victim. This is not to >tar them all with the same brush, but this is unfortunately what I have >experienced and witnessed both here and in the middle east. > >Lily Assalamualaikum I agree, there is a need to understand fully the mistreatment of women in Muslim countries. Unfortunately the press (I'm embarrassed to admit that I am a member of this group) do oversimplify the issues and highlight the mundanes, rather than the "real" problems faced by Muslim women. There are bigger issues such as dicriminations against woman in education, jobs among other things, and even the laws put the women on the disadvantage. In my previous posts, my remarks about my colleagues (the press from the West) are rather harsh, but I also admire their bravery in reporting the war in Bosnia. salam Maarof ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 04:37:23 +0800 Subject: Quran 9:5 On Tue, 09 Jul 1996, "Michael J. Moore" wrote: >Please forgive my poor memory and translation. I was thinking of sura 9.5 > >"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye >find them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. >But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then >leave their way free, L0! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. " >PICKTHALL > >Anyway, it does not sound to good, taken out of context. The Quaran must >always be read in context and with the knowlege of abrogation in order >the get the right meaning. >-- >Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 Assalamualaikum Dear Michael, I have a fond memory of Mohammad Marmaduke Pickthall's "The Meaning of The Glorious Qur'an". I remembered buying it very long time ago, which opened a door to my understanding of the Quran. There were Malay translations of the Quran, but, being brought up in a Malay culture, where the life of Muhammad (saw), his family and the sahabas (companions), is lovingly told, there's nothing really new in those translations ... considering he fact that the Prophet (saw) is an inseparable part of the Malay consciousness (Even, when I'm writing now ... Mecca and Medina is the center of the Malay heartland in my mind). What is remarkable to me about Pickthall's translations, is that I can relate the Quran, the Prophet (saw) and Islam with the previous revealations to Moses and Jesus (as). Now, there are many English translations of the Quran (even from Arabs), and Abdullah Yususali's is OK (from the reformists' perspective) ... but T.B Irving's (Ta'alim Ali) translation from American perspective ... is a joy to read. So about the interpretation of the Quranic verse (9:5), its OK with me what you said, and I certainly agree that al-Quran is a spiritual book, and we have to look at it from spiritual angle (and in this we need a guidance from a spiritual teacher). with best wishes maarof ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:10:45 +0700 Subject: Re: An-Nisaa (Women) I am new to this list. I live in Indonesia. I am not a Muslim, unless this term is defined broadly as "belief in the unity of God". I declare the unity of God several times a day (including upon waking in the morning) and work to understand it in daily life. Regarding the posts by Lilyan Kay and Maarof: It is nice to hear sympathy for the plight of others. However, I would be very much interested in reading a post FROM a Muslim woman rather than merely reading ABOUT Muslim women. Are there any others on this list who reside in Indonesia? Martin Schell Central Java Maarof: Can you shed some light on how it came to pass that orthodox Muslim women in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia wear a "jilbab" (head covering similar to a "wimple") rather than a veil? God Is Eternal, Is In All Of US, Is In Everything, Is One Without Second ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 17:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: An-Nisaa (Women) On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Martin Schell wrote: > > Regarding the posts by Lilyan Kay and Maarof: > > It is nice to hear sympathy for the plight of others. However, I > would be very much interested in reading a post FROM a Muslim woman > rather than merely reading ABOUT Muslim women. asalaam-u-aleikum You did read such a post. I am a Muslim woman. I was speaking from personal experience. Lily ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:25:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Quran 9:5 Assalaamu alaikum. (Thanks for the welcome Habib. Maybe we haven't "met" in physical form, or in e-reality, but this past weekend I did meet with many of the Tariqas' brothers and sisters. To you and all, I'm really glad to be here/there. This is a very peaceful place .) Maarof wrote: >and I certainly agree that al-Quran is a spiritual book, and we >have to look at it from spiritual angle (and in this we need a guidance >from a spiritual teacher). To read a book, even a holy book, is one thing. But the real learning begins when one begins to read a Living Book. This is why I think the spiritual teacher/guide is so important in sufism. To find, or to be found, by one who actuates?, lives, possesses The Message in the heart, is truly a blessing. It has been said that Muhammed read the book of his heart, read his nafs. Was the Quran revealed by an external Gabriel? Impossible - Allah has no partners. Illusions - There is no external. Truth/Reality/Love/God is One! To be with one who has purified the heart, is like looking into a mirror. And in the mirror one can see: Truth. Even the best of books can only allude to such realities. Ya Hu! Muhsin ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:19:02 +0800 Subject: Re: An-Nisaa (Women) On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Martin Schell wrote: >I am new to this list. I live in Indonesia. I am not a Muslim, >unless this term is defined broadly as "belief in the unity of God". >I declare the unity of God several times a day (including upon waking >in the morning) and work to understand it in daily life. > [...] >Maarof: Can you shed some light on how it came to pass that orthodox >Muslim women in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia wear a >"jilbab" (head covering similar to a "wimple") rather than a veil? > >God Is Eternal, Is In All Of US, Is In Everything, Is One Without Second > Hello, Orthodox Muslim women? I guess that is different and "backward" from "progressive" Western women? I don't understand why others label the Muslims such as orthodox, moderate, conservative, fundamentalist, extremist or terrorist? OK, that's aside. There are Muslim women wearing veil in public. They are usually members of a sufi group (which is banned in Malaysia). Most women (my estimate is 70 percent of Muslim women) wear the jilbab when in public. I'm not sure when "jilbab" first worn by Malaysians. Traditionally, the Malay women wears a shawl that covers the head. I first notice them in the 70's, when Malaysia send thousands of its young men and women overseas. I think, jilbab is one of the many things they brought home. salam maarof ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:12:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Quran 9:5 In a message dated 96-07-09 16:39:50 EDT, you write: >So about the interpretation of the Quranic verse (9:5), its OK with me what >you said, and I certainly agree that al-Quran is a spiritual book, and we >have to look at it from spiritual angle (and in this we need a guidance >from a spiritual teacher). I agree with you that the Quran is a Spiritual Book, but even in my study of Quranic Arabic I find in it no doubt and in my life it is not on Spiritual but the book of "Life and a healing source for the ills of the world. I have studied the bible, read the torah and have not found the source of light that I've experience in the Quran. We have beautifully written translations, but reciting or hearing the Quranic Arabic touches me in a totally different way. Sh. J-Kenyatta Chicago,Ill. ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:32:13 +0100 Subject: Feelings about Questions I am a friend of the Muslims, but not a convert. I feel like I have been raked over the coals. This last person, I lost the post suggested I read about sin in the Gayan, or some word like that I never heard of, as if I never heard of sin before and had no idea about this term. I have said that I thought the Quaran was a beautiful book and to hear it in Arabic is quite soothing; I have said that I respected your five pillars of faith, especially in giving a portion of your wages to the poor. I have mentioned that my friend from pakistan mentioned to me about the stoning of individuals for adultery, and so asked for verification whether this is true or not. In no way do I condemn the peaceful Muslims, and the teachings of Mohammed who recomended freedom and peaceful co-existence among his neighbors of various religious beliefs. Your Friend, Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:05:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Feelings about Questions In a message dated 96-07-10 10:37:26 EDT, you write: >I am a friend of the Muslims, but not a convert. I feel like I have been >raked over the coals. This last person, I lost the post suggested I read >about sin in the Gayan, or some word like that I never heard of, as if I >never heard of sin before and had no idea about this term. > >I have said that I thought the Quaran was a beautiful book and to hear it in >Arabic is quite soothing; I have said that I respected your five pillars of >faith, especially in giving a portion of your wages to the poor. > >I have mentioned that my friend from pakistan mentioned to me about the >stoning of individuals for adultery, and so asked for verification whether >this is true or not. As-Salamu Alaikum, I would like to apologize for some of the bad muslim etiquette on the list as yourself I have also been raked over the whipping board myself for things I said from Quran, Whatever problems that the muslims or non-muslims have on the list that problem was with-in themselves long before you or I came along and that was one reason why I stop answering e-mail on the list, until I took time through meditation and prayer to seach my own heart & soul first. Islamic Law from a teachers point of view is the best law of the land it is 100% better than this crooked legal system we use here in America, but what can we do it's the only system we have now. Here's the name of 2 books I use in the teaching and study of Islamic Law that may help you; 1. Introduction To Islamic Law, and 2. Islamic Jurisprudence in the Modern World. Sh. J-Kenyatta Maqam-r-Ruh Chicago,Ill. ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:38:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Feelings about Questions Jacquie Weller wrote: > > I am a friend of the Muslims, but not a convert. I feel like I have been > raked over the coals. Kaffea, you are friend of The Friend! Many believe they have an exclusive view of Truth, even of Law of Land. Your messenger, your Prophet, is in your heart, as such is in mine. Your tact, your kindness, shows... God knows! Love, Harmony, and Beauty, up and down golden threads, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:25:13 -0400 Subject: Questions Assalaamu alaikum. Kaffea Lalla wrote: >I am a friend of the Muslims, but not a convert. I feel like I have been >raked over the coals. Dear Kaffea, My greetings of Peace and Love double for you, As you know, I'm new here, so I feel unqualified to apologize for the e-bashing. Yet, as a fully qualified me, I would like to apologize for my lack of compassion reflected in my inaction. A few days ago, after many rounds of Re: Questions, you mentioned feeling like the lone ranger. You felt alone, the focus of possibly to much attention, and I heard you. Sorry I didn't jump in and say something then. But my head was whirling full speed with thoughts of Nature-Bugs-Tawhid, so I thought I'd just watch the Question Discussion. I wasn't being sensitive to your needs or call for help, I wasn't being a good brother, muslim, or human. Next time... Questions? For me, they are very important. Often, in the midst of a circle, I will ask my shaikh a question wich suprises and shocks those present. It's as if certain topics are supposed to be off limits. Yet, the shaikh has never expressed anything but joy regarding my lack of formality. Usually, the question within my question which he has the ability to hear, leads to a wonderful discourse. As a teacher, and a long-time learner, I have come to appreciate the powerful nature of the question. To not ask is to not learn. Entering a situation believing I possess the answers, ultimately blocks the potential for learning. It is thru questions that we find truth. Ask the oracle - Who is the wisest man? She will answer - Socrates, because he knows he does not know. In my opinion there is no such thing as a bad question. Weak answers, yes. Weak responses, yes. But all questions have the ability to spark the fire, to lead one to truth. And within a group as this, it seems to me, we need to be talking about the issues which you raised. I learned a lot by listening to the resulting comments and I credit my learning to you. Thanks. Thanks for asking the uncomfortable questions. Thanks for being you. Hoping I am priveledged to continue learning from your questions, Muhsin ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #53 ****************************