From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 21 14:48:50 1996 Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:12:19 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #57 tariqas-digest Saturday, 13 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 057 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:23:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Reading Salikun@vnet.net wrote: > > Assalaamu alaikum. > > Lily wrote: > > > >Is there anyone on this e-list whose spiritual guide has thrown their > >books down a well? > > I was on a mountain top in southern spain - a spiritual retreat. > One afternoon, The Teacher saw me reading a book. > At lunch, he asked the circle, "What have you done for Allah today?" > When I mentioned reading, he gave a mini-lecture on the fact that reading > was not action, and that we walked the 15 miles up this mountain to act and > learn. > When I added I was reading the Quran, his mood changed suddenly. > "To read the Quran with an open heart is action?" > And then he asked me to tell everyone what I had learned. > He responded, "When your holding the Quran, you have direct access to Allah." > > Muhsin I find the idea that 'we' can 'do' anything 'for' allah to be questionable. My answer would have been "nothing, he as done everything for me." But these are all just words which may be taking a different view of the same thing. Peace - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:04:17 Subject: Re: Individuality After Merging (Was Re: A Physicist's MeditationI) >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:54:48 +0700 >From: Hudoyo Hupudio > When Hudoyo merges completely with the Absolute, will > Hudoyo's personality remain? Will Hudoyo's individuality > remain? Will he be conscious of both? I don't know. What would Hudoyo want? > What will happen with his Individuality after his death? > Will he be reborn again? Or will he continue existing > as an individual somewhere else? That you will never be able to experience it until it happens or doesn't happen. Of course, this brings in other questions, such as, how can I know its happened after I'm dead? How will I know it didn't happen? > What exists before the Big Bang, and what will remain > after the Big Crunch? Was Time there before and will > it still be around after? Ah, questions that have been pondered since man acquired the ability to ponder... >To me at my current stage of my journey home, all attempts >to answer all those questions will only provide me with >dogmas. Or should we try to answer at all, which is after >all the propensity of the human intellection? Not all questions require an answer (and do all answers require a question first?) In mathematics, a solution can be the Null set {}. Is no answer an answer? - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Keeper of the Dragon Flagon Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:04:17 Subject: Re: Individuality After Merging (Was Re: A Physicist's MeditationI) >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:54:48 +0700 >From: Hudoyo Hupudio > When Hudoyo merges completely with the Absolute, will > Hudoyo's personality remain? Will Hudoyo's individuality > remain? Will he be conscious of both? I don't know. What would Hudoyo want? > What will happen with his Individuality after his death? > Will he be reborn again? Or will he continue existing > as an individual somewhere else? That you will never be able to experience it until it happens or doesn't happen. Of course, this brings in other questions, such as, how can I know its happened after I'm dead? How will I know it didn't happen? > What exists before the Big Bang, and what will remain > after the Big Crunch? Was Time there before and will > it still be around after? Ah, questions that have been pondered since man acquired the ability to ponder... >To me at my current stage of my journey home, all attempts >to answer all those questions will only provide me with >dogmas. Or should we try to answer at all, which is after >all the propensity of the human intellection? Not all questions require an answer (and do all answers require a question first?) In mathematics, a solution can be the Null set {}. Is no answer an answer? - --------------------------------------- Brett W. McCoy "Unix was never designed to keep Istvan Dragosani people from doing stupid things, istvan@gnn.com because that policy would also keep Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries them from doing clever things." of both Love and War -- Doug Gwyn ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:04:26 +0100 Subject: Re: Reading P. Mantis said to his bug friends: I read a book about an antidote for bug venom, which gave me useful knowledge. When I got bit, using the antidote saved my life. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:31:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Reading Just to clarify! To me, the story i related about the bird watchers, is not so much about "being buried in a book" vs. experiencing life, as much as it is about a very real difference in how learning happens. The shift after we learn to read, is very apparent -- to me at least (and others i've read about! ). To me, It's about /where/ we seek knowledge... perhaps more than how. It's about knowing vs. /thinking/... it's about "unlearning" (we call the learning that takes place within my chidlren "unschooling"... ) Clear as mud... in the Beautiful Mississippi?! Mud, Beautiful mud! :) Kaffea, wanna make some pies? ;) love to you all, ALL! :) woodsong ------------------------------ From: Hugh Talat Halman Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 16:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Reading: Guide-Disciple Relationship As-salaam 'alaikum Concerning reading: Of course Shams-i-Tabriz (radya Allah) guided Mevlana (r.A.) to distance himself from over reliance on text-based learning. Shams clearly brought a teaching centered in the Guide-Disciple relationship such that the relationship itself was the teaching, the text, the model or analogy for relationship with Allah. Mevlana burned with love for Shams. And then "turned" out book after book. But so many of the realized souls (_erenler_) have written books, have read books, have quoted books. Clearly this is an issue of harmonizing different modes of teaching at appropriate times and stages in the growth of a student. What counts is how and why you read. All acts are judged by their intention. It must be the purpose, intention, or context for acts of reading that the Murshid must attend to on behalf of the murid, not a spiritual version of bookdumping. Incidentally, in Farid ad-Din 'Attar's _Tadhkirat al-Awliya_ a Shaykh instructs his murid to dump his books in the river. He pretends a few times; the Shaykh is not fooled. Finally the murid dumps the books and sees al-Khidr, the teacher whose immediate knowledge from God (_'ilm ladduni_) and divine compassion (_rahma min-na_), one expects, would overwhelm libraries and web sites. Even here, the Shaykh did not tell all the murids to dump all their books. We also don't hear of wholesale mandates to "stop-all-reading-in-the-dergya." Clearly reading is of many kinds. There is reading which only inflates the _nafs_, e.g., overpowering people with Foucault citation. There is reading which only adds information, not knowledge. There is reading pursued merely to advance in power and position. And there is _qir'a_, readin the Qur'an. Listen to the Read Flute How it tells it's tales Of love's separation it wails. Whether you read it or reed it, this also is a reading. Hazrat 'Inayat Khan spoke of there being only one Book, the Book of Nature (Sufi Thought # 3) Hu..... Talat ------------------------------ From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:08:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Individuality After Merging (Was Re: A Physicist's MeditationI) Dear Ones: Not all questions require or deserve an answer. Sometimes it is most productive to search and refine the question so as to be most meaningful for an individual and/or group perspective. Raqib - -- <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 05:12:02 +0800 Subject: Re: Shaikh On Fri, 12 Jul 1996, tanzen wrote: Sheikh, who is a first line teacher (Sheikha for female teacher)... the Sheikh of Sheikhs is the Murshid, or Murshida for a female. Pir is the head of the Order or Society. Pir-O-Murshid is the founder of the Order. Sheikh is Arabic, Pir and Murshid is Persian, and thus some confusion. Murshid means "guide" in Persian, and is considered the "one who has been there". - ---------------------------- Thank you, tanzen. I've wondering about these terms since I join this e-list. It's like reading shadows, now I can differentiate the shadows. I am fascinated by the existence of several orders (schools?) or societies, or in this public forum I think it would be appropriate (I think) to call them "children" of Pir-O-Murshid Hazrat Inayat Khan. So far I have identified three "children", i.e The Sufi Movement, The Sufi Order of The West and SIRS (Sufi Islamic Ruhaniyyat Society). There might be more (God knows best). I've come to understand that there are disagreements among these groups. Disagreements are not necessarily bad, The Prophet (pbuh) said "disagreements among my followers is a rahma (blessing)". My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves as shadow of One or different shadows of One? thanks for reading my ramblings maarof ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:38:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Qur'an, Question 1 A friend in the Muslim Community Association asked me to pass this message along to all friends and brothers: ****************************************************************** The city of Santa Clara is meeting on July 16/1996 to decide on the fate of the school and MCA center. I know all of us busy but do copy this message to as many people as you can today and follow the action items 1~4. ******************************************************************* The MCA of Santa Clara is struggling to save its school from an onslaught of legal challenges from one of its neighbour "LSI Logic" for the last 3 years. MCA has set up a Web site http://www.save-our-school.org for providing info and for getting support letters, etc. MCA has been supported by around 50 of its neighbours, over 30 local christian organizations and 2000+ residents of Santa Clara. The city of Santa Clara also has permitted MCA to operate school and center in the current premises. *****************************Action items******************* 1. Please visit http://www.save-our-school.org today and show your support. 2. Get a minimum of 5 of your friends to sign and mail the support and protest letters. 3. Call the city of Santa Clara at 408-984-3250 (if you can) and voice your support for the Granada School and MCA center. Talk to or leave a support message (we must be polite and cordial) with Judy Nadler, Mayor City Council members: Jim Arno, Jim Ash, Dave Dolozier, Keri Procunier, Patricia Mahan 4. Call LSI Logic at 408-433-8000 or 800-433-8778 or 800-422-4497 and talk or leave a (firm but polite) protest message for the following people: Wilfred J. Corrigan President, CEO Vice Presidents: John P. Daane, Donald J. Esses , Cindy E. Johnson , David R. LaRock , Vincent A. McCord , Willsie H. Nelson , Michael Rostoker , Kamal K Aggarwal , Peng H. Ang ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Maqam1@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:47:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Hello again ... In a message dated 96-07-10 20:46:47 EDT, you write: >Hello Tanzen, Carol, Lily, Maarof, Fred, and all... >Hi, Michael Moore, it's nice to have another michael here.. :-) >And welcome to brother Martin, i'm your Indonesian brother (besides Hudoyo) >in this list. Hudoyo, are you still with us? > > As-Salamu Alaikum, I glad you are here to share with us HELLO AGAIN. Sh. J-Kenyatta A. Haamid Maqam-r-Ruh Islamic & Sufi Resource Service, Chicago, Ill. ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 06:46:20 +0700 Subject: Who is the one that reads? The shift after we learn to read, >is very apparent -- > woodsong > In my present situation, I work in a small city and go to a larger city to do certain banking and other errands once a month. I have been riding in with my boss' 6-year-old daughter who attends a small international school (where English is spoken) there. During the course of several months, I observed her increasing ability to recognize street signs. Not having children of my own (yet, insh'allah), I was grateful for the opportunity to witness her transformation from nonreader to reader. It seems like a miracle that we adults take for granted. If you are exploring the dichotomy of "conceptual" and "nonconceptual" minds as a current topic for your conceptualizing mind, please look at the computer screen in front of your eyes. As you read my post, your eyes (and mind) are traveling over various shapes of black on a white background. Your mind "conceptualizes" the words but does NOT conceptualize each letter. Yet, at the time you were learning to read, you DID conceptualize each letter. Now that's a transformation!!! Martin ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:28:45 -0500 Subject: Zahir Zahir Lord my lover's legs, thighs, gentle breasts, and the way she penetrates the window of eternity, as I sink into a well as wondrous as the one Yusuf tarried in, or like the time I found myself lost in my heart on retreat, while looking at her eyes, leaves the endings of my nerves coated and dripping: like a purple and golden Wisconsin summer sunset, with sheets of rain and hail and surprise rainbows stretching across sweet time, always passing the manifestation of Your Grace from birth to death, through the many colored experience of illusions knowing You are what is behind, every particle of this great creation! Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 19:26:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? Martin Schell wrote: > > The shift after we learn to read, > >is very apparent -- > > woodsong [...] > As you read my post, > your eyes (and mind) are traveling over various shapes of black on a > white background. Your mind "conceptualizes" the words but does NOT > conceptualize each letter. Yet, at the time you were learning to read, > you DID conceptualize each letter. Now that's a transformation!!! Yes, yes, and think now what it would mean to understand a sentence or paragraph at the alphbet level. tanzen ------------------------------ From: ABDUL GHANI BENNETT Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:22:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Hello again ... 786 asalaam everyone and all! brother Shaikh. J-Kenyatta...i have a question...what does the Maqam-r-Ruh do is it a service or khanqa or bookservice or what...thanks. wasalaam abdul ghani> > In a message dated 96-07-10 20:46:47 EDT, you write: > > >Hello Tanzen, Carol, Lily, Maarof, Fred, and all... > >Hi, Michael Moore, it's nice to have another michael here.. :-) > >And welcome to brother Martin, i'm your Indonesian brother (besides Hudoyo) > >in this list. Hudoyo, are you still with us? > > > > > > As-Salamu Alaikum, > I glad you are here to share with us HELLO AGAIN. > > Sh. J-Kenyatta A. Haamid > Maqam-r-Ruh Islamic & Sufi > Resource Service, > Chicago, Ill. > ------------------------------ From: James McCaig Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 00:51:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Sheikh Brother Maaroff, who writes so beautifully (it was not a surprise to learn he is a professional writer) says: > >My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves >as shadow of One or different shadows of One? > One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind Any disagreements can only serve to create more ways to bring the Message of Love Harmony and Beauty that is at the core of each group. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 06:45:22 -0700 Subject: RUMI #528 WHO IS THIS EXISTENCE who puts sadness in your heart who is this soul who sweetens your grief as soon as you crawl the one who first frightens you with deadly snakes before opening the treasure vault who changes a monster to an angel a sorrow to happiness who gives the blind wisdom and inner sight who changes darkness to light thistles to flowers who sheds the sins of the sinful like autumn leaves and puts guilt in the heart of its own enemies who makes them repent and in silence says amen and whose amen brings inner happiness and soulful delight who changes bitter thoughts to lightness and joyous zeal bestows fire and makes you leap with unknown joy the fire that can make a hero from a desperate heart who is this existence who is this tell me who ghazal number 528, translated January 18, 1992, by Nader Khalili tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 07:11:17 -0700 Subject: Re: Sheikh Hello, everybody! James McCaig wrote: > > Brother Maarof, who writes so beautifully (it was not a surprise to learn > he is a professional writer) says: > > > >My question is: Do these groups (or branches) see themselves > >as shadow of One or different shadows of One? > > > One could say these groups cast no shadows, for they are OF the light. The > Message of Spiritual Liberty as taught and lived by Hazrat Inayat Khan has > inspired several groups, all in pursuit of the light. He has reminded us > that there are as many ways to God as there are breaths in mankind > > Any disagreements can only serve to create more ways to bring the Message of > Love Harmony and Beauty that is at the core of each group. Yes, James. Thanks! maarof, here's one of our daily prayers: SALAT Most gracious Lord, Master, Messiah and Saviour of Humanity, We greet Thee with all humility, Thou art the First Cause and the Last Effect, the Divine Light and the Spirit of Guidance, Alpha and Omega, Thy Light is in all forms, Thy Love in all beings: In a loving mother, in a kind father, in an innocent child, in a helpful friend, in an inspiring teacher. Allow us to recognize Thee in all Thy holy names and forms: As Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha. Let us know Thee as: Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathustra, as Moses, as Jesus, as Mohammed, and in many other names and forms Known and unknown to the world. We adore Thy past; Thy presence deeply enlightens our being, and we look for Thy blessing in the future, O Messenger, Christ, Nabi, the Rasul of God! Thou Whose heart constantly reaches upward. Thou comest on earth with a message as a dove from above when Dharma decays and speakest The Word that is put into Thy mouth, as the light filleth the crescent moon. Let the star of the Divine Light shining in Thy heart be reflected in the hearts of Thy devotees. May the Message of God reach far and wide, illuminating and making the whole of Humanity as one single Family in the Parenthood of God. Amin. - ----------- Every heart contains a blueprint of truth. Most people know what happiness and unhappiness are, what contentment and discontentment are. How do they know this? How do I know that I am not content? How do I know that I am now disturbed? My body may be completely out of balance, and yet I will still know what balance and tranquillity are, and what discord and imbalance are. There is something within the core of everyone that reveals the truth. That something does not change, for it is primal and sub-genetic. The original blueprint is within the nature of homo sapiens. Follow your heart and things go right; follow your head and things likely will not. Heart is associated with fate; head, accident. Now both of these must be coordinated, brought into harmony, with higher mind, our intuition (our heart). I guess you might say we are "followers of the heart", maarof, wherein That First Cause and That Last Effect is focused. Peace and love, coming down the lines, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 10:34:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Shaikh Assalaamu alaikum. Maarof wrote: > >I am fascinated by the existence of several orders (schools?) >or societies, or in this public forum I think it would be >appropriate (I think) to call them "children" of Pir-O-Murshid >Hazrat Inayat Khan. > Yes Maarof, there are several orders within sufism. And the three you mentioned may appropriately be described as children of Pir Inayat Khan whose roots can be said to originate in the Chisti Order of India. Yet, there are still many other orders, hundreds most likely, which do not include Pir Inayat Khan in their lineage. For example: My primary teacher, who resides in Mashad, is a dervish of the Alawi Order. My local teacher, from Istanbul, is a shaikh of the Rifa'i Ma'rufi Order. While travelling thru Philadelphia, I'll visit with the Bawa Muhayiaddeen Fellowship. I've gotten the impression that Tariqas is frequented by many of the children of Pir Inayat Khan: What other orders are my e-brothers & e-sisters associated with? Remembering that all divisions are only illusions, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 11:13:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Who is the one that reads? Hello, dear ones! >> As you read my post, >> your eyes (and mind) are traveling over various shapes of black on a >> white background. Your mind "conceptualizes" the words but does NOT >> conceptualize each letter. Yet, at the time you were learning to read, >> you DID conceptualize each letter. Now that's a transformation!!! > >Yes, yes, and think now what it would mean to understand a sentence or >paragraph at the alphbet level. Think what it would mean to /understand/ a BIRD at the 'alpahabet level'! :) Do we necessarily have to learn at the "alphabet level"? I'd be very interested in hearing others experience in this. Is this a "western" concept? My son 'learned' to read with total disregard for the alphabet. ... not all language is structured in this same way, of course... aren't some languages much more 'conceptual' in nature? Even the spoken language of many Tribes is so very different than most European languages.... hmmm.... Martin, as to the blessing of watching the miracle of learning! Yes! :)(: love to all! woodsong ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #57 ****************************