From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:07:23 1996 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #79 tariqas-digest Tuesday, 23 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 079 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: arsalaan fay Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 20:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Orientalists Friend Talat I can't disagree with you on orientalists, but could you clarify your comment on Prof. Massignon. I don't see "Catholicizing" in his work on Mansur Al Hallaj. Allah is kind/kindness Arssalaan > Even Massignon, whose love for Islam I want to > appreciate, insists on Catholicizing his reading of Hallaj beyond the > license of integrity to the tradition. ------------------------------ From: "Erik S. Ohlander" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:19:39 Subject: Re: Orientalist? Let's do it brother! Erik. >Of course, these days the word 'seminal' has gone out of vogue and >and in deference to our new found feminism, has be replaced by 'germinal'. >Perhaps future generations will be able to find a gender-neutral term. ;-) >How about 'procreative'? ------------------------------ From: MFKimball@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:38:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Orientalist? For a thorough explanation, look at Edward Said's book *Orientalism*. He popularized the term with this classic book. It's very interesting and has infuenced scholars' writng about the Middle East, Islam and the "Orient" for the better. Some orientalists, however, don't appreciate it. ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:39:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Plea for whatever! Congragulations Lalla --- I lasted five months this time around and started again after my engine blew up on the way to Wisconsin. Am committed to joining you however as soon as I am settled with my own place, which by the way is planned for the first. I celebrate you being this good to your self. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Steve H Rose Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 00:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sufi Wisdom & Chant with Music (fwd) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 96 22:21:51 PDT From: kaye@usace.mil (Kaye McGee) Message-Id: <9607220521.AA25551@longbow.usace.mil> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Sufi Wisdom & Chant with Music Sufi Wisdom and Chant with Music Sufi gatherings in a new location! Mountain View, California **** All Are Welcome **** * Principles and practices for living in the presence of heart * Sufi meditation for peace and tranquility * The Beauty of the Divine, expressed in Sufi poetry * Zekr: Inspirational Sufi music and chanting Sunday, July 28, 1996 2:00 - 4:00 East West Bookshop 324 Castro Street Mountain View, California (415) 988-9800 $5.00 donation presented by: International Association of Sufism 25 Mitchell Blvd., Suite 2 San Rafael, CA 94903 (415) 472-6959 * fax: (415) 472-6221 email: ias@ias.org ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:46:13 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: coyote "Coyote lingers..." Your haiku was perfect, Yondanoota. Ali Haydar. P.S. All those letters I sent to cwoodsong@juno.com came back. ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:45:56 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: re: plea for whatever Assalaamu Alaykum, Kaffea Lalla! As God, who never changes, I have an awful and infinite respect and admiration for such as you, who have the courage to make changes for the better. I myself, like other dogs, do not smoke, do not drink, never have. I always said two out of three was doing pretty well. Rooting and Tooting for you, Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:14:47 +0800 Subject: Re: Orientalist? >From the other side of the fence, the word "Orientalist" is considered "a BAD scholar on Islam" from the West. One thing, they wrote about Islam without experiencing Islam as a religion, its rituals and I think, foremost in their misunderstanding is the muslims respect for Muhammad (saw). However, I still enjoy reading the books by early Orientalist, usually Christian priests, who tried to explain Islam from the Christian point of view and very thorough in their research. The one I like to refer sometimes is the Encyclopaedia of Islam (thick book) but very informative (although slanted). salam maarof ------------------------------ From: "Ivan J. Rumi" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:43:08 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: ...I'm new around here :) Dear Friends !!! I'm new member of your list ...I'm so glad that I found it !!! I like Jelalluddin Rumi Very much..It's so Great !!!!!....I'm Russian :) I live in Asia..and I have some questions to you How must I say Rumi's name ??? I have some articles in English...and everytime I read new artile I see that they always write his name very strange...What is correct ??? Jelaluddin Rumi ..... ( I think This Is Correct) Jololadin Rumi Jellaludin Rumi I'm really confused about it ...Can you help me please ?? And one more question ...Where can I find 'Unseen Rain' I want it so much I never read it...I think it's great !!!! Can anybody send it to me ??? I found this here It's so beautiful :) > "The way of love is not > a subtle argument. > The door there > is devastation. > Birds make great sky-circles > of their freedom. > How did they learn it? > They fall, and falling, > they're given wings." > --Jelaluddin Rumi, mystic and poet ------------------------------ From: "Ivan J. Rumi" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:43:08 +0600 (GMT+0600) Subject: ...I'm new around here :) Dear Friends !!! I'm new member of your list ...I'm so glad that I found it !!! I like Jelalluddin Rumi Very much..It's so Great !!!!!....I'm Russian :) I live in Asia..and I have some questions to you How must I say Rumi's name ??? I have some articles in English...and everytime I read new artile I see that they always write his name very strange...What is correct ??? Jelaluddin Rumi ..... ( I think This Is Correct) Jololadin Rumi Jellaludin Rumi I'm really confused about it ...Can you help me please ?? And one more question ...Where can I find 'Unseen Rain' I want it so much I never read it...I think it's great !!!! Can anybody send it to me ??? I found this here It's so beautiful :) > "The way of love is not > a subtle argument. > The door there > is devastation. > Birds make great sky-circles > of their freedom. > How did they learn it? > They fall, and falling, > they're given wings." > --Jelaluddin Rumi, mystic and poet ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:44:45 -0700 Subject: Re: many thanks! Carol Woodsong wrote: [...] > This is how you honor God, by honoring all created things. > Give thanks to these many beings who have made this age so much > brighter for you. Give them your love. See them in every shaft of > moonlight and in every forest glade. [,,,] > /Return of the Bird Tribes/, Ken Carey Thanks, Carol! Carey's piece is about as clear as one can make it. Let us love all beings, one another as Allah loves us. Many thanks... Indeed! tanzen ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:22:02 -0700 Subject: RUMI 1512 RESTLESS now i go to the door now i go on the roof till i see your face i'll never know rest neighbors speak of me when you are away as meek or mad but when you return everything subsides this heart of mine tears itself apart and seeks no joy but only wants to know when you'll arrive but when you return and a wine-server is around i hold a cup fondle your hair and caress your face just come and see me letting go of my wish letting go of my pilgrimage keeping one wish in my heart making love to your desires ghazal number 1512, translated March, 1991, by Nader Khalili, "Fountain of Fire: A Celebration of Life and Love", translated from the original Persian (Diwan-i Shams-i Tabrizi, the Furuzanfar's 10th Persian edition), Burning Gate Press, 18401 Burbank Blvd., Suite 123, Tarzana, CA 91356, 1994 tanzen ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:37:10 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Ivan J. Rumi Dobro pozhalavaty, Ivan! Dabro pazhalovat, Ivan! It's hard to write words in one alphabet when you normally write them in another. Everything is close, but nothing close enough. What I mean to say is, Welcome, Ivan! By the time Jalal-ad-Din's name comes to us from Arabic through Persian and Turkish, it doesn't even look Russian anymore! If you really want to write it correctly, you'll have to use Arabic script. And if you want to read his Mathnavi or Mesnevi, you'll have to use both head and heart, which I see you already do. The best introduction to Rumi I know of is Rumi's Mesnevi by Erkan T=FCrkmen, professor of Persian literature at= Konya University. He is a scholar and Sufi, who is able to condense the core of commentaries in Turkish, Persian, Urdu, Arabic and other languages. My ochen vas lyubim, dobro pozhalovat, Ivan! Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:34:06 +0700 Subject: Re: commentary Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Asha, At 12:34 PM 7/22/96 -0400, you wrote: .... > Some would say that it is better that we understand the unwritten first, >other wise we get like many scientists and farmers of today who think that >health is something you can simply make, construct. Like the farmer who >values an apple by it's top ten or twenty or fifty list of characteristics >from shelf-life to the amount of vitamin C. IMHO, the written and the unwritten are better to be explored at the same time. Just keep the balance. If we only explore the written we'll become "theory-experts", and if we only explore the unwritten we may get confused or dangerously lost in a wrong path. Be careful, Satan is very tricky. Furthermore, Iblis is much more dangerous. Satan leads us to do wicked things, while Iblis make us think ourselves to be superior than others. A true shaykh is needed here to give guidance. > It is difficult to include the unwritten, it is confusing to include >disorder in the order, it is unreasonalbe to include passion in reason, but >without it the accuracy of our descriptions fade. I think we can use our understanding of the written as our 'map' to explore the unwritten and use our understanding of the unwritten to re-check the accuracy of our 'map'. Can we do that? The concept which I explained is called "The Rubbubiyyah Map" by my sheykh. A little bit more about it: The four stage of human soul: (1) The soul at the Realm of Works (Af'al) God introduce Himself to humans at this stage through His Creations. Humans know there is God who creates all. (2) The soul at the Realm of Names (Asma) God start to introduce His Names to humans at this stage. Humans call God (in their prayers) with His many names. (3) The soul at the Realm of Characters (Sifat) God's Characters dwell within humans at this stage. Humans find God within his heart. (4) The soul at the Realm of Essence (Zat) No more human only God's Essence. Through their knowledge about God, humans at each stage have the character of: (1) Water: Concept: Without water there'll be no life, so water is the basic SOURCE of development. - -> Humans at this stage worship God by creating things/objects/services which are useful for others to develop. The person is called Sholihin. Function in community: farmers, fishermen, ironsmiths, artists, engineers, etc. [Note: This does not mean (for example) all engineers' souls are at this stage, they can be at a higher stage (if they have deeper understanding about God) or can be at a lower stage (if they worship Satan), but engineers at this stage are those who accomplish their jobs to serve God only]. Examples: Sinan, Michelangelo, Avicenna, Uthman ibn Affan RA (radyallahu anhu). (2) Milk: Concept: Milk is the best nutrition to grow babies, so it helps creating a correct SITUATION for development. - -> Humans at this stage worship God by creating a perfect situation for others to develop. Their reputation (name) must be good or else such situation will not occur. The person is called Syuhada. Function in community: teachers, policemen, judges, generals, etc. Examples: Solomon, Saladin, Harun Ar-Rasyid, Umar ibn Khattab RA. (3) Wine Concept: Wine can make someone more energic, so it accelerates the PROCESS of development. - -> Humans at this stage will make others around them feel more attracted to God, because God's Characters emanate from them. The person is called Shiddiqin. Function in community: religious leaders, sufis, saints, priests, etc. Examples: Mahattma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Rumi, Abu Bakr Shiddiq RA. (4) Honey Concept: Honey is made by a very well organized team of bees which have a perfect STRUCTURE of development. Honey is also known as a neutralizer, it can warm someone with extreme inner-cold body and cool down extreme inner-hot body. The Neutralizing Force works within. - -> Humans at this stage have become one with The One. God will create through them a structure (visible or hidden) to let others around them to develop. The person is called Nabiyyin. Function in community: Prophets, Great Sufi Masters, Waliyullah. Examples: Muhammad SAW, Abraham AS, Ali ibn Abu Thalib RA. IMHO, the Hindus also have the similar concept of four human stage, which is the base of the four caste in Hinduism: (1)Sholihin ~~ Sudra (2)Syuhada ~~ Waisya (3)Shiddiqin ~~ Ksatria (4)Nabiyyin ~~ Brahmana with an extra caste of those who go astray: Kaffir ~ Paria. But in Hindu, children of a Sudra are also Sudras, while in this Islamic concept children of a Sholihin can be anything, they can be Nabiyyin or even Kaffir, it depends on their own spiritual evolution. I believe the pure Hindu concept about the caste is also like this, but maybe a wicked ruler or priest changed them some millenias ago. Any comment? Still in love with all of you. Wassalamu'alaykum, your (still) babbling brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:34:09 +0700 Subject: Re: ...I'm new around here :) Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear brother Ivan, At 03:43 PM 7/23/96 +0600, you wrote: > Dear Friends !!! > >I'm new member of your list ...I'm so glad that I found it !!! I like >Jelalluddin Rumi Very much..It's so Great !!!!!....I'm Russian :) I live >in Asia..and I have some questions to you > Welcome to the most beautiful mailing list in the cyberspace. By the way, in which Asian country do you live? I'm in Indonesia, SE Asia. >How must I say Rumi's name ??? > > Jelaluddin Rumi ..... ( I think This Is Correct) > Jololadin Rumi > Jellaludin Rumi Call him whatever you like, he is still our lovely Rumi. :-) His followers called him Mevlana (Our Master). Wassalamu'alaykum, your brother who also loves Rumi, Michael Roland BARZAKH FOUNDATION Wijaya Grand Centre C-3 Jl. Wijaya 2 Kebayoran Baru Jakarta INDONESIA 12160 Phone: (62-21) 720-5622, 723-4676 Fax: (62-21) 720-5622 E-mail : barzakh@idola.net.id http://www.yellowpages.co.id/life/barzakh/ ------------------------------ From: Kathleen Seidel Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:34:52 -0400 Subject: Whirling Dervish 1997 Tour Dates Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim "Sema is the food of the lovers of God, for within it is the taste of tranquility of mind." Mathnawi IV:742 Whirling Dervish Tour -- Winter 1997 Sponsored by Threshold Society http://www.webcom.com/threshld/ The 1997 Whirling Dervish tour is a not-for-profit endeavor. Its purpose is to offer to those who are interested in Mevlana and the Mevlevi tradition an opportunity to witness the central Mevlevi ritual, sema, conducted by semazens and musicians from Turkey, the cradle of the Mevlevi tradition. Inshallah, this group will include many of the same semazens and musicians who toured the United States during Ramadan 1995, and who are featured on the Water Lily Acoustics recording "Wherever You Turn Is the Face of God," and the Interworld recording "Returning." For ticket information, please contact the ticket offices of the individual performance venues. January 15 (W) Atwood Concert Center, Anchorage, Alaska January 17 (F) Meany Hall, University of Washington, Seattle January 18 (Sa) Hult Center, Eugene, Oregon January 19 (Su) Van Duzer Theatre, Humboldt State University, Arcata, California January 21 (Tu) Freeborn Hall, University of California, Davis January 22 (W) Marin Center, San Rafael, California January 23 (Th) Performing Arts Center, California State, San Luis Obispo January 24 (F) Wadsworth Theatre, University of California, Los Angeles January 25 (Sa) Mandeville Auditorium, University of California, San Diego, La Jolla January 28 (Tu) University of California, Santa Barbara January 30 (Th) Sanders Theatre, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts January 31 (F) City Center -- New York, New York February 1 (Sa) City Center -- New York, New York February 2 (Su) Lisner Auditorium -- Washington, DC Ashk olsun! -- Let it become love! Kathleen Seidel ------------------------------ From: Kathleen Seidel Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:59:24 -0400 Subject: Ivan J. Rumi Greetings! Unseen Rain is published by Threshold Books in Brattleboro, Vermont, USA. The Threshold website includes ordering information, and has many excellent pages on Mevlana and the Mevlevi tradition: http://www.webcom.com/threshld/ Unseen Rain is currently available, as are many other excellent translations of Rumi, and other books on Sufism. Prompt shipment is guaranteed. I highly recommend Kabir and Camille Helminski's translations of Rumi (Love is a Stranger, Rumi Daylight, and Jewels of Remembrance), and Kabir's book, Living Presence. Depending on the current exchange rates, you may wish to contact these Threshold distributors outside the US: Chalice Books, Switzerland Telephone 49-035-68571 Deep Books, London, UK Telephone 071/232-2747 Gemcraft Books, Melbourne, Australia Telephone 613-888-0111 Ashk olsun! -- Let it become love! Kathleen Seidel ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:20:36 +0700 Subject: levels, cycles, cultures, etc Friends, One and All: The section of Barzakh's post quoted below eloquently expresses the fact that we humans go up and down spiritual scales (like music!) throughout our existence. Some "higher" levels may be new, but the "lower" levels continue to be re-experienced. Asha's description of the seasonal cycle (which is not the same here in Indonesia, where there are 3 rice crops per year) is an old and essential metaphor. The interchangeability of active/attractive, here/there, now/then, etc is easy to empathize with by remembering the cycle of seasons. There are several traditions or schools that describe "parts of the soul". One is the Tarot, which describes 4 paths or roads (which might be called Angels in the Zoroastrian-Judaic-Christian-Muslim tradition, Dhyani Buddha/Tara couples in Vajrayana Buddhism, or the Medicine Women of the 4 directions in some Amerindian tribes). Each suit of cards represents a different "energy" or "center" or "realm" of human life, and also human society. The swords/spades are the military, the sudden stroke of Truth. The cups/hearts are the religions, the water of Love. The pentacles/diamonds are commerce, the application of Knowledge. The wands/clubs are the working class (farmers/peasants), who experience the spirit by solving life's problems to gain Wisdom. These suits/functions/angels were delineated as castes in India, and known as "estates" in France. They are still recognizable as social classes or political interests. HOWEVER, just as the feudalistic rigidity of "always following the caste/function of one's parents" is outmoded, we can also say that the belief that one function is "higher" than another is also out of date. Self-observation reveals that we move among all of these realms, sometimes within a matter of minutes! It is my understanding that the parts of the soul -- body, emotions, mind -- refer to a near-universal paradigm that even children can understand (see THE WIZARD OF OZ, for example). This paradigm is in human anatomy. Whether there are 3 faces, 4 suits, 5 latifahs, or whatever, the basic concept seems to be pretty similar. How can we see the differences? One example would be to engage in one function/center intensively, then go into another. For example, I was helping to prepare food at a party, doing a lot of physical work. When I finished, I entered a room where people were laughing and expressing emotions. It seemed very strange to me. Or, go jogging and then observe your motivation to read a technical book immediately afterward. Or, read a lot, and then go to the dinner table where your family wants to talk. Or, be fun-loving at a party and watch your resistance to someone who wants to talk seriously about an intellectual topic. Etcetera, etcetera. Each of the paths has its levels, as expressed by the cards 10 to 1 in the Tarot deck, 1 being "unity with God". The Chayah and Yechidah described by Raqib seem to me to be transcendental experiences in which one "witnesses" the operation of the parts of the soul without feeling them to be "separate" or preferring one to be better than the other. That is why I said that these two aspects seem to be "levels of BEING" rather than "parts" or "faces". There are numerous metaphors and systems that work with these "parts of the soul". I think latifah is one, but I'm not really familiar with the work with latifah. The point of such categorization is not to see the categories as ABSOLUTE truth, but to see them as RELATIVE truth which enables people to communicate experiences. This helps the guide or teacher understand where the student is along the path. Regarding the cultural distinctions that Gale asked me to clarify: My experience of living in northeast and southeast Asia for the past 12 years seems to confirm a passing remark by Ichazo that the "orient" works more with martial arts, and the "west" works more with reason. Much of western mysticism (Judaic/Christian/Islamic) comes from the Greeks, especially gnosticism. The Greeks evolved logic as we know it. There was also influence from Zoroastrians, Chaldeans, etc who made many observations about patterns of the planets and stars. East of India, especially in China and Japan, the emphasis has been on the accumulation of chi/ki, loosely translated as "vital energy" and experienced often as body heat. This is an essential concept in martial arts and oriental medicine. In my Tao Teh Ching post, I showed how one master of Tai Chi translated Lao Tzu in light of oriental mysticism. No other translation that I have ever seen addresses the concepts of "filling the belly with chi" or using the "white" energy to "strengthen the bones". Now, if we in the west understand "nefesh" to be "lower soul", and then we translate it as "physical body" we are really just following an old cultural prejudice that devalues the physical body. "Vital energy" is precisely the energy of LIFE, LIVELINESS. It is vital to health and happiness in the physical world. If we go to Japan or China (or maybe Korea, too) and see someone who has youthful grace in his/her movements, emotional composure, clear mind, and compassion for all human beings, are we going to say that vital energy is a "low" part of the soul? Nonsense. Vital energy is simply a path, like one of the Tarot suits. It can be understood as corresponding to the abdominal cavity. When people (individuals or an entire society) are hungry, they tend to become greedy and "self-centered". Even in affluent societies, there is a tendency to greed and selfishness that is associated with the need for "my job, my career, my family, my home, my, my, etc." As I see it, the "ego" that is worth criticizing is the tendency to have a narrow subjective perspective, as if one's entire soul were focused inside a small container that is "me in my present life". At times, our attention is indeed this narrow -- it could even be a survival mechanism in moments of danger. But this "narrowness of perspective" is NOT NECESSARILY always linked to the physical body. Hatred can be considered a "narrow" form of the emotions, lies can be considered a "narrow" application of the intellect, and prejudices are "narrowmindedness" of the spirit -- all are ego, or "lower soul". This is why I suggested that when east and west judge each other, it could be like one latifah trying to judge another. The path of intellect sees the path of emotion as flowery fluff, while the path of emotion sees the path of intellect as slow and boring. The rational west sees the east as undemocratic, while the physically calm east sees the west as chaotic. One "part" or "path" cannot judge another objectively. However, the Chayah and Yechidah (if I empathize with them correctly from Raqib's descriptions) are experiences of the WHOLE, not the parts. They seem to represent states that can be accomplished by various methods. Studying the experience of "parts of the soul" is one method (like pentacles in the Tarot). Other methods are equally valid. This is enough for now. I hope this post is useful. We should have respect for our physical body as a gift from God. Vital energy can be a source of joy and should not be considered a "low" part of the soul. In this light, it is more accurate to understand Nefesh as "appetite", which naturally is associated with our physical body, but can also be linked with emotional, mental, and spiritual craving. martin ***For further explanation about the Tarot, along the lines of the theory that I outlined above (which I learned from Oscar Ichazo, founder of the Arica School), surf http://www.moonview-graphics.com and go thru "Michel's pages" to find his Tarot "walkabouts". ***From Barzakh: The Islamic ritual practices are also presented hierarchialy by each stage mentioned before: (1) Sholat (Daily Prayers) transendence: Ikhlas - Find ourselves inside nature. emanence: Shiddiq - Find nature inside us. (2) Zakat (Donation) transendence: Al-Birr - Find ourselves inside community. emanence: Amanah - Find community inside us. (3) Shaum (Fasting) transendence: Taqwa - Find ourselves inside God's Will. emanence: Tabligh - Find God's Will inside us. (4) Hajj transendence: Tawakkal - Find ourselves inside God's Essence. emanence: Fathonah - Find God's Essence inside us. This does not mean (for example) if we reach stage (2) we don't have to fast, but rather the wisdom of each ritual practice can be found/experienced deeply at certain stage. Perfect and continous performance of each rituals may also be the key (still with God's Grace) for us to "leap" from the lower to upper stage. ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #79 ****************************