From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:08:05 1996 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #81 tariqas-digest Thursday, 25 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 081 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas McElwain Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:37:20 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Gale, Veil, and Hail Sports Assalaamu Alaykum Rahmatullaahi, My beloved and esteemed fellow Shi'ite Sufi, Dervish Gale, who is generally cool, intelligent and detached, refuses to open a can of worms in mentioning the hijab in Iran. I once met the Iranian wrestling team on a plane and found them to be not only prominent sportsmen but very pious Shi'ites. Back to the hijab and sports. Without the rather full covering, the whirling of the Mevlana dervishes would be quite a different spectacle. Perhaps we could add this to the list of Olympic games for the enrichment of humankind. The example of good might lead others to more Islamic and appropriate dress in sports. Every Sufi knows that almost all things can be idols, even a bowl of rice, and almost all things can be vehicles on the way, even music, as Jalal-ad-Din has so masterfully proven. If one of the thousands of participants breaks through to Al-Haqq, what do the thousands of splintered bits of marble about the masterpiece matter? Yet in the matter of competitive sports, humankind is amazingly irrational. I God fail to understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made grasshoppers and squirrels so infinitely better at it. Why not rather watch them? In fact, relatively speaking, human movement is more or less in the same class as that of hedgehogs. Compared to deer and their more awkward cousins, horses (which people do watch, strangely enough), running people are awkward and even downright funny. Perhaps the smiles are of amusement rather than joy? By all means, smile in the house of idols, smile in the sacred mosque, smile while you can, while I God am still hidden and the day of judgment a whole and significant breath away. Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:49:34 +0700 Subject: humor Friends traveling to the One: I am interested in polling members' reactions to the following old joke. In a few days, I will post a report of my experience using this joke in an English class I taught at a Thai university. "The Chess-Playing Dog" I was walking down a street one day, and happened to notice a man playing chess with his dog. I said to the man, "Your dog must be very smart. He can play chess!" He replied, "He's not so smart. I beat him 2 games out of 3." Why is this joke funny? Martin God Is Eternal, Is In All Of US, Is In Everything, Is One Without Second ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:50:12 +0700 Subject: physical prowess About ten years ago, I visited Sanjusangendo Temple in Kyoto, Japan. Inside the temple are 1001 statues of the Bodhisattva of Compassion. The Japanese government now operates the temple as a sort of museum. The back of the temple has a long verandah that runs the length of the building, about 30 yards or so. This verandah has a wooden floor and wooden ceiling. The back wall of the temple is also wooden. This makes a three-sided wooden "tunnel" that runs the length of the building. In previous centuries, a kind of endurance contest in archery was held at the back of this temple. A man would sit at one end of the verandah and shoot as many arrows as he could IN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS thru the "tunnel" that runs the entire length of the verandah. A "hit" was an arrow that passed all the way thru the "tunnel" without hitting wood or going astray out the open side of the verandah. According to a description posted inside the museum/temple, the record was held by someone a century or two ago, who shot several thousand arrows thru the tunnel. I calculated that he averaged 6 out of 7 PER MINUTE as "hits" (with only 1 out of 7 per minute going astray). Compare this feat of endurance to the "quickie" contests of the modern-day Olympics. Most health authorities agree that endurance is more significant than speed, strength, or coordination as a measure of long-term health. Martin ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:29:19 -0700 Subject: Re: humor Martin Schell wrote: [...] > I said to the man, "Your dog must be very smart. He can play chess!" > > He replied, "He's not so smart. I beat him 2 games out of 3." > > Why is this joke funny? Surprise... an aspect of "expect the unexpected". tanzen ------------------------------ From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:36:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Gale, Veil, and Hail Sports > >Yet in the matter of >competitive sports, humankind is amazingly irrational. I God fail to >understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made grasshoppers and >squirrels so infinitely better at it. Why not rather watch them? In fact, >relatively speaking, human movement is more or less in the same class as >that of hedgehogs. Compared to deer and their more awkward cousins, horses >(which people do watch, strangely enough), running people are awkward and >even downright funny. Perhaps the smiles are of amusement rather than joy? >By all means, smile in the house of idols, smile in the sacred mosque, smile >while you can, while I God am still hidden and the day of judgment a whole >and significant breath away. > Ali Haydar > > Since when is rationality a measure of rightness or being aligned with the divine? If we used this measure, we would all fail miserably. God alone knows what he/she finds amusing in this land of the rational irrationals or irrational rationals. The approach and attitude of the madzubs is as dear as any, and given a special place. The joy and the exaltation of the spirit at whatever level - nafs, nefesh, neshamah, chayah or yehicah is what comes through in these competitions. The nobility of the endeavor and the challenge in the midst of physical and spirtual adversity shines through these youth and to me gives some hope that yes there is an evolution on this planet toward some inspired endpoint. We are given spiritual and physical gifts from the beloved and to be a complete human to me means to accept these gifts and transform them into the highest forms possible -- transcending what I think or feel I can achieve, and this is being routinely and non-chalantly demonstrated throughout these olympics. In awe and reverence to the human spirit, Raqib - -- <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:24:17 -0700 Subject: Re: physical prowess Martin Schell wrote: [...] > Compare this feat of endurance to the "quickie" contests of the > modern-day Olympics. Most health authorities agree that endurance is > more significant than speed, strength, or coordination as a measure > of long-term health. Come on, Martin, what do "health authorities" know about health, long-term or otherwise? Seems the doing, performing our role as Slayer of Sloth, is the thing. Consider what a person goes through to get to the level of performance required by the Olympics of today. Training that puts spirit, mind and body to work at the edges and beyond... "will to continue on" to get to the top (movement, speed, strength, form, even grace) requires patience and endurance... the patience comes from spirit, endurance from body, a balance that few of us ever achieve... God knows this, huh, Ali? A scholar is normally looked-down upon because of lack of balance: all mind, all intellect, without a similar development of intuition and material body. When spirit, mind, body are fully unified we be what we are capable of being; but, what do I know? Only God knows! Peace, love, harmony, beauty, down these precious threads of gold, tanzen ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:31:15 -0400 Subject: supporting the ideal >>> I God fail to understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made grasshoppers <<< Well, god, they do it because of the ideal of excellance. You have made them capable of jumping and they have the desire toward perfection and the motivation of excelance and even in even in the case of worshiping you, they build their temples beautifully out of love. Surely you understand that. Further they have put forth the ideal they call the Olympic ideal. The ideal of universal brother/sisterhood, the ideal of competition through cooperation, the ideal of one earth, one planet. Perhaps you, like every other man, would have enjoyed to have had your own idea promoted as the olympic idea but i am sure you do not begrudge another thier success as promoting a worthy ideal. Perhaps you would like to see a more perfect rendition in this ideal, you are free to go to the games and work with the olympic commitee, they have a school in Paris and plenty of need for philosophers and poets. If you think there is a more appropriate dress, perhaps you will design it and your excellence of design will be recognized. It seems to me that sufis especially should applaud the desire of women and men who meet together in the spirt of friendship and striving for excellence, they may be better than those who meet in the temple in a mean spirit, as often happens, don't you think? Right now, in Atlanta, i know there are sufis who have gone there to take advantage of this spirit that yearns for perfection, God's name fits right in with this yearning, those who have gone there for other reasons, and there are many, as there allways are, they will pass right by and never notice, and yet, perhaps this whole event will be moved one step closer to god by thier effort of cooperation. I think god is most happy working in cooperation. And the day of judgement? is the day of judgement a day of icy cold hearts? or of warms hearts full of joy? Are people of the games just amusing themselves with a useless pass time, or are some of them expereincing a deep joy? Well to that last question i can't say i can know or judge another persons quality of expereince, but perhaps by your example of deep joy you will spread the awareness of love, it is not likely that fear will awaken a heart to love and joy, so why strike that note? Perhaps you think the games are a child's ideal? Did your mother not supporty your children's ideal when you were a child? Did she lead you to increase the depth of your ideal or attempt to knock it down? Mother's are wise in thier ways ... Asha ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:31:38 -0400 Subject: Re: physical prowess are the Marathon runs an example of a quickie contest? Why all this criticism of others? I'm sure that if we limited our criticism to ourselves we would not soon run out of work. ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:42:05 -0700 Subject: Re: Olympics Gale wrote: > ... if male critics are getting erections from watching the little girls > doing acrobatics, that's their problem. Problem? I find this one of Allah's blessings, to be able to appreciate beauty in all things, especially in women, young and old, big and little, large and small. > For my part, I enjoy their mastery of their art. So do I. Blessings to you, Nur Jemal Thank you, dear one, tanzen ------------------------------ From: gberlind@crl.com (Gary Berlind) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:48:41 -0800 Subject: Re: physical prowess >Martin Schell wrote: > >[...] > >> Compare this feat of endurance to the "quickie" contests of the >> modern-day Olympics. Most health authorities agree that endurance is >> more significant than speed, strength, or coordination as a measure >> of long-term health. > I think that the Olympic thing is, like many of our "institutions" of today, another example of a mixed bag of "good", "not so good", and "lousy". The dedication, artistry, etc., - probably good. The commercialization, idolation, distraction (for the public), focus on competition for its own sake, etc. - probably not so good. If one is to make a judgement, a good question to ask might be simply "does the good outweight the bad, or vice versa." Anybody read "In the Absence of the Sacred" (by Jerry Mander)??? Gary Berlind ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:13:27 -0400 Subject: those very urbane planners Dear Bob, yes i admit to being one of those designer types (landscape arch/designer) who look for the place in the space ... it is a part of what Ibn Arabi describes when speaking of the creation of form. Ultimately it leads to what some call, making God a reality ... from the saying "Make God a reality and He will make you the truth." thanks, Asha P.S. just read i nice little book myself called The Temple in The House ... and though this book doesn't say so, did you know that the very idea of having a house comes from the idea of making a place for god, not from need for shelter. The fact is that humans have demonstrated very well that they can live without shelter (well not you and i perhaps) but not so well without making god a reality. you wrote: >>>Hi, there's what I think is an interesting counterpart to this home/house distinction. It's the distinction between place/space. I read a book on urban planning that talked about how a focus on "space planning" (i.e., figuring out all the really neat things we can do with a particular plot of land or what not) misses the part about every space being a place (i.e., a place where people or other critters live, interact, and so forth).<<< ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:29:18 +0700 Subject: Re: physical prowess >Martin Schell wrote: > >[...] > >> Compare this feat of endurance to the "quickie" contests of the >> modern-day Olympics. Most health authorities agree that endurance is >> more significant than speed, strength, or coordination as a measure >> of long-term health. > >Tanzen replied: > >Come on, Martin, what do "health authorities" know about health, >long-term or otherwise? > >Seems the doing, performing our role as Slayer of Sloth, is the thing. > >Consider what a person goes through to get to the level of performance >required by the Olympics of today. Training that puts spirit, mind and >body to work at the edges and beyond... "will to continue on" to get to >the top (movement, speed, strength, form, even grace) requires patience >and endurance... - --Sure, endurance of will and attention during training. All forms of self-perfection have value, even "hard" martial arts. - --But look again at what I wrote and you quoted. Most TYPES of Olympic events (even the word "event") are performances, which often lead to physical collapse afterward. Compare that to endurance, as in the original marathon (which was a round trip, 26 miles each way). - --Hey! I'm as hypocritical as the next guy/gal at quoting only those authorities who support/mold my opinion, but...what is the physical condition of these olympic folks at age 50 or 60? What is the condition of professional ballplayers 20 years after retirement? It seems that regular, steady exercise (or some kind of culturally-instilled respect for the body) do more for an ordinary person's health in the long-run. If you like physical activity enough to watch it on TV, why not do it? martin PS Regarding Raqib's comment: "...accept these gifts and transform them into the highest forms possible -- transcending what I think or feel I can achieve" Is a momentary demonstration of speed, strength, etc. the "highest" form possible? For those who train, it is a transcendence. For those who merely watch, it is at best a sparkling wish or flashing reminder. Anyway, you seem to define "highest" in a subjective way, relative to "what I think or feel I can achieve". Do we have any objective way to evaluate what the "highest" human physical health actually is? To clarify: I'm not saying the Olympics are "bad" or "useless". What I'm suggesting is that they have limited value for community education about physical prowess, and they may well be oriented in a direction that distracts us from developing optimum physical health. To me, it seems that Asha's comment points to a key and undeniable aspect of the SPIRITUALITY of the Olympics: "ideal of universal brother/sisterhood, the ideal of competition through cooperation, the ideal of one earth, one planet". I agree with these spiritual virtues, but I still question the physical aspect: are the Olympic ideals of "prowess" actually the "highest" for human beings? ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:12:54 -0400 Subject: Re: physical prowess >>>I still question the physical aspect: are the Olympic ideals of "prowess" actually the "highest" for human beings? <<< I admit to listening to a "sports talk show" yesterday while traveling in my car ... the host was saying the same thing that you are saying now. They are actually discussing this point in sports itself, you bring a good point to the fore. I guess i was just amusing myself on a very hot day in my car, listening to a sports talk show ... i could have been paying attention to higher things, but thank god for bringing the higher things to me .... - -A ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:23:01 +0100 Subject: Olympics of harmony, peace, beauty Practice being in harmony three hours a day, then increase five minutes a day until you can spend 24 hrs in harmony with all beings. This is the first compulsory tryout. Practice being peaceful to all you encounter...then increase and expand your heart through breathing minute by minute. Seccond olympic event. Practice seeing beauty all around you, in everything and everyone, without judgement, criticism, or comparison. Third olympic event. Marathon is being able to balance all three activities, with proper diet, exercise, and being a human being. Last event, is hurdle all obstacles with love towards yourself, and patience, and then turn this love on all around you like a spotlight of God, giving shining grace to everything. Love Kaffea Lalla, And Allah is always Allah! ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:45:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Olympics of harmony, peace, beauty Jacquie Weller wrote: > > Practice being in harmony three hours a day, then increase five minutes a > day until you can spend 24 hrs in harmony with all beings. > This is the first compulsory tryout. > > Practice being peaceful to all you encounter...then increase and expand your > heart through breathing minute by minute. Seccond olympic event. > > Practice seeing beauty all around you, in everything and everyone, without > judgement, criticism, or comparison. Third olympic event. > > Marathon is being able to balance all three activities, with proper diet, > exercise, and being a human being. > > Last event, is hurdle all obstacles with love towards yourself, and > patience, and then turn this love on all around you like a spotlight of God, > giving shining grace to everything. > > Love Kaffea Lalla, And Allah is always Allah! Gosh, Lalla, what would God do without you? what would I do without you? love, harmony and beauty, down the lines, tanzen ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:27:43 -0500 Subject: Please Take another Look Assalaamu Alaykum Rahmatullaahi, One of our most esteemed colleagues Ali Haydar said: Yet in the matter of >competitive sports, humankind is amazingly irrational. I God fail to >understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made grasshoppers and >squirrels so infinitely better at it. Why not rather watch them? In fact, >relatively speaking, human movement is more or less in the same class as >that of hedgehogs. Compared to deer and their more awkward cousins, horses ... The object of what it is to excel no matter how frail a thin skinned hairless biped might be, is just another way toward mastery. As I have watched the gymnastic team two days ago I found myself observing the height of what is possible physically for this body which has been extended to us for a time. And the context demonstrated through my eyes displayed a great degree of concentration, poise, intention, tenacity, and grace. I have been reading about everything from the question of modesty to other statements regarding the very egocentricity involved in the arena of sports. And of course all points of view are valid. However when one reaches toward a height no matter what the form how can we be so arrogant as to judge. Someone mentioned that it would be better to feed the poor, the hungry than to support these games. I might point out this is the first time in a very long time that all the countries which are participating are doing so. That in fact while they are competing they are doing so on a basis of good will. That when a team is winning they are manifesting to some degree an achievement not simply for themselves or there countries but for humanity. It seems as though we who claim some sense of a path or spirituality tend to be very judgmental. When I hear things like why don't we put the money into feeding the hungry I cannot help think of Judas question Isa regarding buying oil and scents with the very same questions. We need healthy bodies to have a full healthy spiritual life. The Olympics and sports in general today unfortunately in many ways do reflect all the pitfalls of big business. Cheating needs to be guarded against, there is the question of steroids and other "enhancing" drugs, there is malice and a sense of selfishness which clearly are flaws within the structure. However in ways the same can be found in any tariqa, in any order, in any organized human event which we observe and or participate within. I would invite my friends to enjoy a worldwide public display of the best humanity has to offer at the present as an acknowledgment of the Creator by its creation. I would further invite that the perspective of this bringing us just an inkling toward world participation and thus world harmony as well be enjoyed. Love. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:14:52 +0100 Subject: Re: Olympics, etc. Dear Tanzen, since you said this publicly, I must tell you God does very well without me! Please do not embarass me with your brotherly love. Kaffea Lalla . ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:16:30 PST Subject: Re: Olympics Hello, tanzen! :) >Gale wrote: > >> ... if male critics are getting erections from watching the little >>girls doing acrobatics, that's their problem. >Problem? I find this one of Allah's blessings, to be able to >appreciate beauty in all things, especially in women, young and old, big and >little, large and small. Yes.... like Nur Jemal said, /your/ problem! ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:20:33 PST Subject: Dear God... > I God fail to understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made > grasshoppers and squirrels so infinitely better at it. Why not rather watch > them? I don't know why everyone seems so upset with you, God. You seem to be pointing out the obvious... again! :) Thank you! Now, please, if you would, tell me how to know what it is that i, your oh so human child, am infinitely good at! ... perhaps that's what You've always been telling me... perhaps i only thought i was listening when You said to Love You and to Love my neighbor as myself... oh, God... tell me how to keep to that promise! much love to All, yondanoota ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #81 ****************************