From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:08:42 1996 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:25:12 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #83 tariqas-digest Friday, 26 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 083 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve H Rose Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 00:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: one moment (fwd) From: cmbsun@juno.com Received: (from cmbsun@juno.com) by x5.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XAA26494; Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:34:21 EDT To: woodsong@juno.com Cc: tariqas@europe.std.com, wh@seas.upenn.edu, CMBSUN@juno.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:45:16 PST Subject: Re: one moment Message-ID: <19960725.223111.3670.6.CMBSun@juno.com> References: <199607220627.JAA29660@nina.kolumbus.fi> <19960722.015926.4454.0.woodsong@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10,12 On Mon, 22 Jul 1996 01:59:26 PST woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) writes: >coyote lingers >anxiously pacing her steps >how'ling at the dawn Woodsong > > A Chukawalla Feels warmth high Easterly In the Joshua tree Morning Bear ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:00:09 -0500 Subject: The Will of Allah I believe Michael said something along the lines that it is all the Will of Allah. I can not challenge such a statement, just as I cannot challenge the statement that all is Allah. And yet I would bring up from the three texts of monotheism there is that which pleases Allah and that which incurs Allah's wrath. Now I question both the words please and wrath. These seem like some anthropomorphic bridge for us to understand a point. Is everything the Will of Allah? I might suggest that there is that which we perceive which has nothing to-do with al Huk and which is only an illusion. I would suggest that that has nothing to-do with the Will of Allah, but rather has much to-do with the delusion of a hallucinating and derelict's mind. I would further suggest that such a derelicts mind is the basis for what we normally call reality or how we as a species perceive nature. As far as I can discern the Will of Allah refers to the true nature of Reality. This is something which we know as little about as societies pre-dating Copernicus. Now if all is the will of Allah then the misperception is Allah's Will. That is to say Allah extends a capacity to some and hold back a capacity to others. At this point I hope my friends recognize that I am left in a true quandary. It is a quandary I think at least a few share with me. The difficulty is that is not knowing I have a difficult time believing that everyone else does know and I am really this dense. Here then I see my dilemma as either arrogance and/or I am suggesting that people have not really thought about the subject in a manner which can lend something distinct from the parroting of what they have been taught, rather then what they have learned from direct experience. What I am hoping to catalyze from this question if anyone chooses to take me up on it is not so much the company line or a platitude like God is One, Allah is All, there is only Allah's Will, but rather a genuine inquiry regarding what this means and how come anyway. If there is no response to this one then I will blush get over it and try to punt in a different way. Love Your Forever Puzzled Brother. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:00:14 -0500 Subject: Great News Great news after two months of experiencing the discomfort of transience I will be shortly moving into a wonderful two bedroom water front apartment which I can call my own home complete with phone. This is actually a breakthrough. I will be off line for a few days next week probably starting on Monday. At times given a blown up engine, a muffler which fell off, a bad transmission, an automobile accident and the sheer terror of thinking that living on the streets was a definite possibility I have been from time to time a bit agitated. I know this has come across in some of my messages and I once again thank all my friends for either indulging me and or attempting to put in the appropriate correction. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:41:01 +0100 Subject: Re: humor > > >On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Martin Schell wrote: > >> Friends traveling to the One: >> >> I am interested in polling members' reactions to the following >> old joke. In a few days, I will post a report of my experience >> using this joke in an English class I taught at a Thai university. >> >> "The Chess-Playing Dog" - ------ Amy met the chess-playing Dog, and was quite nonchalent about it. She said hu and the chess-playing Dog, played roll-over. That was funny. ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:25:22 -0500 Subject: Re: The Will of Allah Jabriel Hanafi wrote: > [snip] > Now I question both the words please and wrath. These seem > like some anthropomorphic bridge for us to understand a point. > > Is everything the Will of Allah? > [snip] Jabriel, I would like to think about this some more and have many of the same questions. I think, though, that maybe you already have a sense of the answer in your use of the word "anthropomorphic". If we were to imagine that Allah is very different from any human, we might conclude that "please" and "wrath" and "will" are not really relevant. Perhaps it is a little like a pet fish trying to understand his master's hobby of painting -- it makes no sense in terms of what the fish knows, feels, or desires. This does not, of course, stop us from striving to know our master and to understand. A few of us might break free of the water and find in the master's painting a reflection of ourselves and a new sense of the beauty of it all. ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) (by way of Thomas McElwain ) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:34:04 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Dear God... > I God fail to understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made > grasshoppers and squirrels so infinitely better at it. Why not rather watch > them? I don't know why everyone seems so upset with you, God. You seem to be pointing out the obvious... again! :) Thank you! Now, please, if you would, tell me how to know what it is that i, your oh so human child, am infinitely good at! ... perhaps that's what You've always been telling me... perhaps i only thought i was listening when You said to Love You and to Love my neighbor as myself... oh, God... tell me how to keep to that promise! much love to All, yondanoota The peace of God, Yondanoota. It is true, dear One, that I only say the obvious. I leave the deeper matters to the competent, and to those who have books at their disposal. As you know, I sit here in the middle of the forest with only My creation around me, my computer, the Tanach, the Qur'an, and a Seneca dictionary. In response to a direct question, I answer. How to love God with all the heart, soul and strength and the neighbor as the Self? Love to the self is automatic, it cannot be rejected and need not be attained. The very perception of the other is hostility. When the self and all selves are perceived as One Self, that is, when there is the realisation that God is One, then there is perfect love. Any other love is a camouflage for competition in illusion. That is the theory in a nutshell. I mean what is simple and obvious, not the deeper matters. How to achieve it? All Sufi practices foster it, some better than others, depending on circumstances. I shall but mention a few possible introductory vehicles for removing the veils one at a time. These have been handed down in my tariqa for generations, and have proved useful to several people in the past. 1. Go into the Self in silence. Silent meditation with the discipline of calmly laying each thought the comes aside, without strain, is a good preparation. 2. Submission to the will of Allah. This is the step of shari'a, which is primarily an attitude rather than a bundle of practices. Consciously melting the will into the will of God is a good second step. 3. Communion with the Beloved. One possible focus of meditation at this point is the baptism of Jesus, at which he experienced God calling him beloved and expression pleasure in him. The point is to transfer that realization to oneself. 4. Following the breath. The experience of baptism by immersion is just a cutting off of the breath, which means that every breath is a baptism or death and resurrection. The meditation is that the breath is being poured in directly from the mouth of the Beloved at each breath. Another possibility is to meditate the creation, in which the human is created by the hand of God. The human body is thus perceived as the shape of the hand of God. 5. The remembrance of sacred texts. The meditation of a sacred text can take place in four steps. First, the active reading of the text. Second, the attempt, using any and all means, to understand the text. Third, calmly laying aside both the recitation and the explanation of the text, and basking in the light of the words in silence. the fourth measure is incorporating the illumination of the text in active life. It is the third step which bridges to this and is what is generally left out in fundamentalist approaches and results in what others may view as hypocrisy. So I would point out special care for this third step. 6. The projection of identity. This is the active, conscious identifying of perceived objects as self. This is a conscious attempt to see beyond the illusion of a diversified universe. 7. The apperception of God. This is the active, conscious identifying of all perceived objects as God. The practice of any of these vehicles may not seem fruitful at first, or only fruitful in flashes. But the sense of fruitfulness in them is not what is significant, but rather what gradually takes place through their practice, the love that is revealed in the apperception of the One. I hope that I have not given the impression that I can teach anything. I merely refer to some aspects of the tradition to which I am attached. I have done so in response to a direct question. The first question: What am I infinitely good at? Yes, that is a very good question. It does not need an answer, though. The very asking of it is its value. I obviously know nothing about sports, but take sports for example. I should think the posing of that question again and again throughout sport training would be advantageous in the achievement of Haqiqa. What am I infinitely good at? The jumping champion might take lessons from the grasshopper. The humility of watching the teacher might bring on true insight to that question. In that way the human being, awkward as a hedgehog, might realise that she is nonetheless infinitely good at jumping. Love, Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain (by way of Thomas McElwain ) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:34:19 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: re: supporting the ideal Assalaamu Alaykum Rahmatullaahi, I God wrote the following, which has, I believe, been misapprehended by some. "My beloved and esteemed fellow Shi'ite Sufi, Dervish Gale, who is generally cool, intelligent and detached, refuses to open a can of worms in mentioning the hijab in Iran. I once met the Iranian wrestling team on a plane and found them to be not only prominent sportsmen but very pious Shi'ites." By this I meant that I myself prefer to be addressed with sincere respect, and therefore try to use such forms of address. Secondly, in the only encounter I have had with top level sportspeople, I was thoroughly impressed with their spirit. "Back to the hijab and sports. Without the rather full covering, the whirling of the Mevlana dervishes would be quite a different spectacle. Perhaps we could add this to the list of Olympic games for the enrichment of humankind. The example of good might lead others to more Islamic and appropriate dress in sports." In this passage I refer to a Sufi example to illustrate the idea that the most appropriate dress for a particular sport is likely to manifest itself without any particular discussion or imposition of strained morality. But since the matter of Islamic ideals of dress was introduced by someone else, I suggested that such matters might better be dealt with through example than through such discussion or even worse the imposition of a strained morality. "Every Sufi knows that almost all things can be idols, even a bowl of rice, and almost all things can be vehicles on the way, even music, as Jalal-ad-Din has so masterfully proven. If one of the thousands of participants breaks through to Al-Haqq, what do the thousands of splintered bits of marble about the masterpiece matter?" In this passage I make the point that sports like many other human endeavors can be made to serve the Sufi goal of achieving Haqiqa. As such I see sports as a possible way to what in my opinion is the highest possible achievement of a human being. Therefore sports are of value even if some people find negative aspects in them. I did not refer to any other aspect of sports besides the possibility of engaging in sports as a Sufi practice. "Yet in the matter of competitive sports, humankind is amazingly irrational. I God fail to understand why they compete in jumping, when I have made grasshoppers and squirrels so infinitely better at it. Why not rather watch them? In fact, relatively speaking, human movement is more or less in the same class as that of hedgehogs. Compared to deer and their more awkward cousins, horses (which people do watch, strangely enough), running people are awkward and even downright funny. Perhaps the smiles are of amusement rather than joy?" In this passage I make the point that, reverence for the human spirit, great as that spirit appears in such demonstrations as the Olympic games, is incomplete without respect for every spirit, human or not. For this reason, after being awe-inspired at seeing the great achievements of jumping, for example, in the Olympics, the Sufi may see the leap of the humble grasshopper with the same and perhaps even greater sense of awe. "By all means, smile in the house of idols, smile in the sacred mosque, smile while you can, while I God am still hidden and the day of judgment a whole and significant breath away." As many Sufis throughout history, I view the idea of a literal weighing of good deeds and bad deeds in a day of judgment with some amusement, and although I do not ridicule it (out of charity) as much as my Bektashi predecessors, I do on occasion refer to it. In this case I made it a medium for expressing the entering of Haqiqa, by reminding that, although God is hidden behind a veil, that veil can consist of merely one breath. I am sorry if this thought strikes fear to anyone. Even though I used the word "irrational", I did not refer to rationality or irrationality as such in the evaluation of anything. I have presented points in favor of non-rational approaches so often elsewhere in this forum, that I would not find it surprising if someone belabored me as being irrational. Even though I said "I God fail to understand" I did not address the sports event as such in this sentence (I had already expressed my evaluation of sports as an eminently valuable Sufic vehicle in the preceeding sentences). I addressed at that point the issue of reverence for non-human spirits. I did not disparage or even refer to the ideals of the Olympic games, the ideals of cooperation or any other human ideals. I did not show a lack of appreciation for the ideal of excellence. I did not suggest that improvement in sport dress was desirable, nor did I suggest a dissatisfaction with what exists in that area nor a desire to design sportswear. I did not express or even intimate a dissatisfaction with any matter involved in the Olympic games, or the philosphy and policy behind them. I merely pointed out that animals are as equally deserving of respect as people. If someone disagrees, there is freedom to express disagreement with that. I will not be offended, only slightly amused at the egocentristic viewpoint. Yes, from my point of view the Sufi ideal is the highest of all, not because it is of comparatively higher value than another ideal, but because it is in the final analysis inclusive of the other ideals. A child's ideal is just as valid and valuable as any other. I may be un-American, but don't try to make me out as denigrading mothers. I have not attempted to knock anything down, not even the God-given right to be disdainful of Me. I only say that I object to seeing that right used on the basis of things I have not said, especially when I have said the opposite. The only idea I have is the idea of Haqiqa. I am not particularly interested in "pushing" even that one, but if it fits, take it. Unless I err, this forum is an appropriate place to express it, and the last place where it should be disparaged. Perhaps I am disturbing a delicate Sufi experiment in approaching Haqiqa by tangents, similar to trying to see an object by not looking directly, but placing it at the edge of the field of vision. If so, I can be told that as repectfully as I have made the disturbance. But I am no One to say what anyone should or should not do. Finally, if you know somebody in Paris who wants to read my poetry, kindly send me the address and I will gladly send some of it to her or him. I am sorry to write in a cold and humorless way this time, but as God, I shall try to communicate according to the needs and desires of the listener. Is it too much to suggest that I would be happy for the listener to listen to what I say, rather than to pretend I have said the opposite? If there is One impelled to say Ana Al-Haqq, is there gain in disparaging that One? I think not. If the expression seems invalid, the conclusion to be drawn is that the claimant is mentally deranged. It is unbecoming to disparage such people. If the expression seems valid, then to disparage it is to disparage Al-Haqq. Respectfully and with reverence for even the hedgehog spirit, Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 06:55:11 +0100 Subject: No reality, but God I meditated, thought, wondered and awed over one thought for two yrs. It was "There is no reality but God" Then I realized "God is in me, God is not depressed, therefore I cannot be depressed, and yrs of psychiatric disorders dropped off me like husk off a corn. Now smoking is dropping off me like an old skin. Well after yrs of being subjected to medications, skilled doctors, etc, etc, No one could believe any of this, Because everyone thinks whatever they think. Well I don't think anymore, I just know, "There is no reality but God". Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 08:24:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Olympics maarof@pc.jaring.my wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, frank gaude wrote: > >Gale wrote: > > > >> ... if male critics are getting erections from watching the little girls > >> doing acrobatics, that's their problem. > > > >Problem? I find this one of Allah's blessings, to be able to appreciate > >beauty in all things, especially in women, young and old, big and > >little, large and small. > > > >> For my part, I enjoy their mastery of their art. > > > >So do I. > > > >Blessings to you, Nur Jemal > > > >Thank you, dear one, > > > >tanzen > > > > Assalamualaikum, > > How many broken bones the "little ones" endure before the Games. How can > anyone gettting "erection" with this thoughts. > > salam > maarof I don't understand. Are you recommending that one should think of broken bones in order to prevent erections? (In a thick German accent a la Colonel Klink cerca Hogan's Heros ) Verrry Interesting! ;-) - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: woodsong@juno.com (Carol Woodsong) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:24:55 PST Subject: Re: supporting the ideal > I God wrote the following, which has, I believe, been >misapprehended by some. yes... but You have been misunderstood since the beginning of time.. does it surprise you that i be still caught up in darkness? It is my eyes that are clouded, not yours. You see God, i do not yet understand... i do not yet see the Truth of Your Unity! .... this sometimes drives me crazy! .... i want to do what God wants me to do ... i want, i want.... but there is no /me/... soo... what does GOD want? My sister is right, of course... She, God, said that All is Allah, Allah is All. Sometimes i get caught up in confusion... and i begin to feel separate from You. But your Love keeps drawing me close... holding me beyond my confusion even /while/ i am deeply mired in it. Thank you for Love, God. >Finally, if you know somebody in Paris who wants to read my poetry, >kindly send me the address and I will gladly send some of it to her or him. I be in Oklahoma. :) but i would like if you would share more of your poetry with me! ;) >to listen to what I say, rather than to pretend I have said the >opposite? sometimes i cannot hear... my ears have been stopped up... please help me to listen better! I wish only to Love you, God. > Respectfully and with reverence for even the hedgehog spirit, all my love, to You God... with revevence for even, maybe even especially, the hedgehog spirit, and to all my beautiful relations here on tariqas... yondanoota ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:12:15 -0500 Subject: That If a Fish Might Understand Craig wrote: The Will of Allah: > Perhaps it is a little like a pet fish trying>to >understand his master's hobby of painting -- it makes no sense >in terms of what the >fish knows, feels, or desires. This does not,>of course, stop us from striving to know >our master and to understand. Here is where words, even poetry become the obstacle. It seems that the Nature of Reality seen from within is one form of having a sense of what might be up and what might be down. And then of course there is the vision, plane, and revelation which occurs through grace from meditation, prayer or just as a gift which seems to pull one out of the water for an instant allowing the perspective to shift. Ultimately there is the object of the field of reality itself permeating consciousness extending a small taste of omniscience or an all knowing, which (and I am not certain of this) some confuse with the notion of anl Huk. I believe that this is hardly the ultimate as experienced by Allah and is if at all a very dangerous trap. Ultimately what I think we each are all seeking is a type of open eyed Samadi. Here there is an attunement regarding the will of Allah which creates a distinction in what it means to be human from what is common. I think there is a grave responsibility that comes along with such a state. And I have no ground upon which to speak about it. While I believe I have had the honor of observing a few individuals who have delivered and generated from this place the platform was higher then I was capable of understanding. So what can a poor fish do in and out of water. First the realization that there are at least two different atmospheres might lend a call to prayer and intention for the sake of attunement. Here words, wasifas, mantras are just the portal. At first in my experience the wasifa is breathed with as much diligence to forgetting everything one has heard about meanings. There seems to be an energy of its own which like a doctor with a good bed side manner one might lovingly observe. After so many months this energy lets the observer know how it might like to be moved so that it seems to be generated at times from the heart or from the crown, to the solar plexus or whatever the case might be. This is where the physical movements of the prayers in Salat serve so handsomely. It is not only a matter of millions of brothers and sisters at a specified time are with me, and thus from time to time I feel like a part of Adam, a part of Ibrahim and a part of Mohammed, Peace be upon them all but that there is the full effulgence of the history of humanity as we know it from the Adam/Eve we call ourselves. Why would one reach for the Will of Allah. Here is the distinction in my opinion between mysticism and occultism. The mystic surrenders much like the Zen Monk who faces the wall and knows everything from wall. It is not analysis, manipulation, scientific method. Rather it is I and Thou. For I and Thou to occur I need by necessity to disappear. The occultist on the other hand once establishing in ritual protection uses the operation of her/his magical process to commune with a higher intelligence so as to establish a link for the purpose of a wisdom which enhances some self interest. It seems as thou the double helix of I am that I am becomes the issue. For the mystic the first I am surrenders to the Light behind the Light, for the occultist the first I am attempts to use the second while actually controlling the environment of operation for safety as well reasons of repeatability. It would seem then in relation to will the occultist is working with a different type of nur. Thus the Nur of Prometheus as he brings light from the heavens to humankind is different then the Light Mohammed, Peace be upon him prays for in The Prayer of Light. Or the light of the light bearer, Lucifer is distinct from the Light of experienced by Moses via the "Burning Bush". The Will of Allah becomes an incredibly volatile issue when one thinks they know what it is, even when one adamantly claims that that is all there is. For I think we are all consoures of the "taste". There is a distinction between light from the plane of the Jinn and the Angelic Plane from the human, and the human from the dolphin and all are distinct from Allah. I am not speaking of separatism here. I do not know what the distinctions really are in a way which is satisfying to me, much less beneficial to the service of others. I love the prayers of Hazarat Inyat Khan for many reasons the most obvious for myself is that in all of them he requests, invokes and speaks for all of us in the plural. Clearly to have any valid glimmer of the Will of Allah the main purpose begins with surrender and ends in surrender through service. It is important to say that after rereading this message the manner which I speak pretends some knowledge of something. I need to learn to form proper questions and I ask your indulgence. White is behind the inquiry before the inquiry is made perhaps begins to serve. Who will the inquiry serve and how will the questions illuminate so others may more handsomely serve is worthwhile for consideration. Thank you for your indulgence as well as your past response Craig. Love. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:00:34 -0400 Subject: What Mansur said Re, the recognition of the the divine in one's being: of course, when Mansur al Halaj is said to have said in his own language, "I Am The Truth" the key, of course, was that he was not Mansur al Halaj when he said it. And the proof is that when Mansur was reportedly crucified it wasn't Mansur that was crucified and in the midst of the crucificxation Mansur said something like, "let this curcifixation not end so soon!" Jesus, of course, when he said a similar thing "I am the truth and i am the light!" was reportedly in a similar state. So, when one claims to be God, well, usually this is not a very polite thing to do (except that evidently it is a Rastafarian cultural language) as there is quite a claim being made there. The problem is, as i'm sure most would agree, not wether we are all and each God or not God, but wether we are aware of it or not. Perhaps the most beautiful approach that i have seen are those masters and saints who refer to everyone as God and rarely make claims as to themselves. But then there is allways that occasional Al Hallaj, and we can but appreciate Mansur for his being. - -Asha ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabriel Hanafi) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:48:36 -0500 Subject: Re: No reality, but God Kaffea Lalla said >Well I don't think anymore,>I just know, "There is no reality but God".>Kaffea Lalla My Friend, There have been two women in my life whi I have held as exquisit saint types one was named Naquiba Boas the other Devi Tide and you my dear are the third. I thank you for allowing me the indulgence of my mind. Love. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #83 ****************************