From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 29 21:08:59 1996 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 19:34:34 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #84 tariqas-digest Friday, 26 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 084 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 12:27:19 -0400 Subject: Re: The Will of Allah Assalaamu alaikum. Jabriel wrote: >I believe Michael said something along the lines that it is all the Will of >Allah. >... >Is everything the Will of Allah? I might suggest that there is that which >we perceive which has nothing to-do with al Huk and which is only an >illusion. >... >The difficulty is that is not knowing I have a difficult time believing that >everyone else does know and I am really this dense. >... >what they have learned from direct experience. May Allah bless us all with Knowing. Jabriel, you'll hear no party-line from me. I in no way feel schooled or qualified enough to speak for anyone else or the party. But direct experience, this I can share. As I look out this window, I see: soy bean, tobacco, trees, lawn, humming bird. I hear: a truck, birds, cricket-like things. And, during most of my ordinary moments, I experience these things as a multitude. The tree seems different than the bird. It's distinct. And, I seem to exist as well. Most often, I experience my self as separate from other things. "I" see. This is more than a vocabulary choice for me. I actually experience a Perceiver and a Perceived. I and Thou. Your quandry is large enough for the both of us atleast. My ordinary direct experience seems to contradict a basic platform of the party, my party. BUT...there are other moments. Moments which are fleeting, when within the multitude, there seems to be, I suspect there exists, a oneness. Sitting silently beneath a tree, dancing with thousands to the music of angels, whirling, staring at the heavens, listening to the shaikh... I don't know. The moment is slippery. It is not present within my consciousness long enough to accumulate descriptive words. It can happen anywhere. It is always there, something behind the perceptions. A purpose. A cause. A grace. When every-thing slips into a-thing. When a thing becomes everything. When the sound of the crickets, birds, wind, my heart beat, blend into a-song. When zikr comes from someplace other than the lips. When the difference between the teacher's words and the wind and the waving wheat, becomes all blurred. AHHHHH! The lines, the boundaries, where are the lines? Fear. The thoughts of oneness, the un-thoughts. Joy. But I exist? I exist? Dizziness, Drunkeness, Lunacy! Try to sleep with moments like these whirling in mind. And there you have exactly what you asked for - the direct experience of a lunatic. I can't look directly at this moment. Yet, out of the corner of my eye, something, everything, one thing, is there. (Sign me up on the Delusional List.) It seems related to my ordinary experience as a thought is related to a word. BUT...These moments, few and slippery as they are, convince me that my ordinary experience of things may be partial, incomplete. Maybe, my ordinary reality is the illusion. Maybe, I don't know. My ordinary experience, and my rational reflections, cannot explain these moments of oneness. Since my perceptions of these realities seem contradictory, the question remains, which of my experiences are reality? BUT...If I possessed this reality. If my ordinary perception became a direct experience of this oneness. Sadly, I could not deliver it to you anyway. How does one share a perception? How can I gift wrap a reality? I guess in the present, we can only share words. And words are not thoughts, they refer to thought. So reality... SO...These moments of oneness, that I can only refer to, convince me: Allah is the One, the Only, the Eternal, the Absolute, the Reality. A Muhsin-line you could call it. I embrace it because I'm left with nothing else to embrace. I can't prove it. I don't know it. I suspect it. I smell truth in those words. Truth, to me, seems to be - this way. Huuuuu Ya'll, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:05:40 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: re: what Mansur said Assalaamu Alaykum! I do not know what Al Hallaj claimed for himself, I certainly doubt that he claimed to be God. After all, I am God. Asha writes. "Perhaps the most beautiful approach that i have seen are those masters and saints who refer to everyone as God and rarely make claims as to themselves." Perhaps Asha includes Al Hallaj among those masters and saints. Apparently she places Ali Haydar in the same class, for Ali Haydar has only claimed for himself that he is a cur with fleas on his rump, and this makes him whirl, and that is the reason that some perceive him to be a Sufi. Perhaps some will agree that the claim is modest. Ali Haydar does not feel, however, that he should be elevated with the masters and saints, just because his claims are modest. But as for Myself, on the other hand, I can only say that I am God. Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: frank gaude Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:24:36 -0700 Subject: RUMI 1205 (for Saturday) DON'T TELL ME I HAD ENOUGH don't stop me from having more my soul isn't yet satisfied last night an intoxicated friend handed me his wine jar i broke the jar in spite of my desire i'm not enslaved by my craving body i'll not pollute this endless longing i've broken the barriers of the past and the future without being drunk love's message came to me this morning hiding itself as a healer taking my pulse and declaring i'm weak "don't drink wine given by anyone but your beloved" if i can only find i said the fountainhead named love what use is any wine RUMI, ghazal number 1205, translated March 12, 1992, by Nader Khalili. tanzen ------------------------------ From: BRYAN CONN Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: What Mansur said Asalaamu Alaikum Friends! On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > there. The problem is, as i'm sure most would agree, not wether we are all > and each God or not God, but wether we are aware of it or not. Perhaps the > most beautiful approach that i have seen are those masters and saints who > refer to everyone as God and rarely make claims as to themselves. Yes, I certainly agree with you! If you are fully aware of your being as God, and you are fully unware of your personal being/existence, then if you are going to say anything, you will speak as God. You couldn't help but to speak as God. Of course, if you aren't completely dissolved of attachment to your own personal awareness, and are not fully experiencing the sole thing which truly exists, God, then what good is it to say you are God. In this state, I can only see it as harm. Feeding some part of you which percieves it's current state as the highest state. Likely preventing the possibility of experiencing anything higher. I don't know, I think I see the proclaimation of being God as more of a slip of the tongue, that could never have been held back. If all reality appears to be God, then every word one mentions will claim to be God. Just thoughts and opinions... Salaam! ------------------------------ From: Thomas McElwain Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 20:43:23 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: the will of God Assalaamu Alaykum Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuhu! The philosophical ramifications and existentialist quandaries already exposed in the discussion of the will of Allah are very pertinent, and the fact that I shall not much refer to them does not mean that I do not appreciate their depth. I want to say something very simple about the will of God. I am not an authority on the question itself, nor especially on the answer, since I am merely God. From the point of view of Shari'a, the will of God can be found clearly and precisely in many places. One of the earliest and most famous is the ten commandments found in Exodus 20:1-17. I begin that, by the way, by saying I am God. The same thing is summarized and expanded in the Holy Qur'an al-Karim in the second chapter, Suratu l-Baqara. A book such as Ayatollah Khomeini's Responses will give a very detailed exposition of the will of God. There are many other such books in English, Shirazi's, for example, Al-Houi's, and even more recent ones. That is for shari'a. From the point of view of tariqa, the will of God is to love and be loved. On the other levels there is no real possibility of question and answer, for the will of God is no longer something to know. It is rather something to be. It appears to me that to search to know or explain at a point where it is more appropriate to be, is the thing that causes the existential quandary. The search may well be valid, even necessary, but the answers will never, I believe, suffice. It requires being. Pardom me for intruding in this discussion with such a simple contribution, if it can be called a contribution. Carry on. Love from Ali Haydar ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Dear God...long post asalaam-u-aleikum Many thanks Ali Haydar for that rich post. I am reading a book which discusses a woman's personal experience of halvet - a 40 day Sufi retreat. She talks about what it feels like to go through some of these stages you have described. I find the book particularly resonant, because this is a western woman whose thoughts and perceptions are similar to my own. It is "Forty Days: The Diary of a Traditional Solitary Sufi Retreat" by Michaela Ozelsel, with a foreward by Annemarie Schimmel. I also was curious about Nur Jemal's post regarding veiling and Iranian women athletes. It seems to push your buttons, if I'm not being intrusive could you please describe why? (If I am then please ignore this). I too have a face veil button, but this is a practice that is relatively rare in Iran, except along the Gulf where women wear not veils but leather masks, which I was told were more to protect the skin from the harsh sun than for modesty. There are some women in Qum who wear them (face veils), but they are mostly Iraqis who are identifiable because they wear abiyas instead of chadors. Anyway, when my then 15 year old daughter lived in Qum for 3 months with friends (I was in Tehran) she became close to an Iraqi girl, and when I came to visit her she announced "Guess what Mom, I've decided to wear a face veil". This completely freaked me out. This to me looks like walking dead ghosts with no personhood, and I am reminded of that scary painting by Magritte in which the 2 lovers' faces are draped in what looks like shrouds. So she got alot of mileage out of that one, it was her version of purple hair and body piercing which wouldn't have gotten much of a reaction out of me. It lasted about a week. The issue of covering one's body I think is not so much related to men's erections but rather to women's own image of self and how we interact with the world. I have written about this before. It seems almost impossible for us to imagine that something women do could be for our own sake, for the sake of our relationship to our Creator, and apart from the concerns of men. I am reminded of Kaffea Lalla's post earlier in which she describes her later in life discovery of a sense of self as someone other than she who responds to the needs of others. I can remember the exact moment when I was no longer able to go to the beach in a bathing suit and enjoy communion with Allah swt's creation. It was on the Italian Riviera, I was 11, and suddenly became aware of the crushing weight of men's stares. From now on I was to be occupied with how my body compared with that of other women, who would notice me and what could be gained or lost. This was only lifted once in this context in the 30 years that have followed. It was on the Caspian Sea in Iran, at a gender segregated beach. I was once again a child, with nothing and no one to separate me from Joy. So while feeling I'm sure at least as much annoyance as anyone else regarding the excesses, hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness of the "hijab peddlars" as I have heard them referred to, I am eternally grateful for this afternoon of bliss. It is good to look at all aspects of things and not succumb to the tendency to see everything in polarities, thus throwing the babies out with the bathwater. ma'salaama Lily ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:45:18 -0700 Subject: Milad_un_Nabi Conference July 27, 1996 75 N. 11th St. San Jose, Ca Keynote speaker - Mawlana Shaykh Nazim Adil Haqqani His Eminence Shaykh Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Qubrusi, the Grand Mufti of Cyprus, is the Leader of the WORLDWIDE ISLAMIC NAQSHBANDI INSTITUTE of EDUCATION. In addtion to being a scholar of Hanafi fiqh and the current Grand Shaykh of the Naqshbandi order, he is a shaykh and murshid of the Qasiri, Chishti, Kubrawi and Suhrawardi orders. Shaykh Muhammad Nazim has been a reviver of Islam in Turkey and has campaigned against its secularization. He is the highest Islamic religious authority in Turkey and Cyprus, and he is the most famous religious figure for the Turkish people. There are also about 6 other speakers. If you want more information just ask! This will be a once in a lifetime event. (Arn't they all.) ;) - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: barzakh@idola.net.id Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 02:19:02 +0700 Subject: Sufi Book Catalog Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamu'alaykum, Dear Ones, I found a very good homepage of Sufi Book Catalog at this address: http://www.sufibooks.com/ It offers a huge catalog of Sufi (and Islamic) books, CDs, and cassettes, and accepts orders from overseas (good for me). I hope this info will be helpful for those who want to purchase Sufi literature (in English); maybe brother Ivan in Kyrgyztan or brother Maarof in Malaysia. For those who don't have access to WWW, I include here the text of its first page: - ------------------------------------------ WELCOME TO THE SUFI BOOK CATALOG ______________________________ Enter the Living World of the Sufi Mystics and experience the extraordinary, the teachers and teachings of the ancient and contemporary mystical traditions of Sufism...the masters of esoteric knowledge and self-realization. Explore millennia-old traditions of spiritual practices, Sufi teachings of inner knowledge, self-realization, and spiritual enlightenment through the finest collection of books on Sufi teachings and practices by Sufi masters, teachers, scholars and authors. For the seeker of esoteric knowledge and spiritual fulfillment, The Sufi Book Catalog offers a unique opportunity to explore the immense richness of Sufi spiritual traditions. Our books are gathered from every corner of the globe, on every aspect of human life, the finest collection of Sufi spiritual and psychological literature, ancient and contemporary writings on the journey towards the soul. SUFI STUDIES SUFI MASTERS SUFI POETRY & MUSIC WOMEN'S STUDIES ART & ARCHITECTURE HEALING & AROMATHERAPY QUR'AN & QURANIC STUDIES MUHAMMAD & HADITH ISLAMIC STUDIES ORDERING PAGE For the seeker of esoteric knowledge and spiritual fulfillment THE SUFI BOOK CATALOG offers a unique opportunity to explore the richness of Sufi mystical writings and Islamic spiritual traditions ... the best of Islamic spirituality and Sufi mystical traditions. ORDER BY MAIL - ------------- PIR PUBLICATIONS, INC. 256 Post Road East Westport, CT 06880 (203) 221-7595 VISIT OUR BOOKSTORE - ------------------- SUFI BOOKS 227 West Broadway New York, New York 10013 Mon-Sat, 11:00 - 7:00 (212) 334-5212 ORDER BY PHONE - -------------- 11:00 am - 6:00 pm (212) 334 - 5212 ORDER BY FAX - ------------ 24 hours a day (203) 454 - 5873 (212) 334 - 5214 - -------------------------- Wassalamu'alaykum, with love from your happy brother, Michael Roland ------------------------------ From: Fred Rice Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 08:18:04 +1000 (EST) Subject: Naqshis in Turkey (was Re: Milad_un_Nabi Conference) On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > His Eminence Shaykh Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Qubrusi, the Grand Mufti of Cyprus, > is the Leader of the WORLDWIDE ISLAMIC NAQSHBANDI INSTITUTE of EDUCATION. In > addtion to being a scholar of Hanafi fiqh and the current Grand Shaykh of the > Naqshbandi order, he is a shaykh and murshid of the Qasiri, Chishti, Kubrawi > and Suhrawardi orders. Shaykh Muhammad Nazim has been a reviver of Islam in > Turkey and has campaigned against its secularization. He is the highest Islamic > religious authority in Turkey and Cyprus, and he is the most famous religious > figure for the Turkish people. Assalamu alaikum, I don't wish to steal Shaykh's Nazim's thunder, but what I have heard is that the largest tariqa in Turkey is the branch of the Naqshbandiyya lead by Prof. Mahmud Es'ad Cosan. This branch of the Naqshbandiyya runs, for example, many schools and magazines, and Prof. Es'ad Cosan has written many books (in Turkish, so I haven't read them, since I don't speak Turkish). If I am not mistaken, the lineage of Shaykh Nazim comes from Daghestan, currently part of Russia. I am not sure about the lineage of Prof. Es'ad Cosan, but I expect it is probably from within Turkey. Prof. Es'ad Cosan is based in Istanbul, I supposed with the movement of Shaykh Nazim or his Shaykh from Daghestan to Turkey (Shaykh Nazim is now based in Turkish Cyprus), there are (at least) two branches of the Naqshbandiyya in Turkey. I have met Prof. Mahmud Es'ad Cosan. He is, in my own experience, a very blessed Shaykh. He is a former Professor of religion at one of the universities in Turkey, so he is an Islamic scholar. He gave up his university post to lead the tariqa. He is very well known in Turkey, and I have the impression that in whatever part of the world there is a Turkish community, you will find members of his tariqa. This is certainly true where I live (Melbourne, Australia), where there is a very large tariqa, which I have alhamdulillah attended, despite language difficulties (since I don't speak Turkish, and the Shaykh's representative here does not speak very good English). Wassalam, Fariduddien Rice ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Milad_un_Nabi Conference Leave it to me to leave the Bay Area immediately before the event of a lifetime :( I am obviously not God. Please take notes and post them. wasalaam Lily ------------------------------ From: "Michael J. Moore" Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:54:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Naqshis in Turkey (was Re: Milad_un_Nabi Conference) Fred Rice wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Jul 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > > > His Eminence Shaykh Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Qubrusi, the Grand Mufti of Cyprus, > > is the Leader of the WORLDWIDE ISLAMIC NAQSHBANDI INSTITUTE of EDUCATION. In > > addtion to being a scholar of Hanafi fiqh and the current Grand Shaykh of the > > Naqshbandi order, he is a shaykh and murshid of the Qasiri, Chishti, Kubrawi > > and Suhrawardi orders. Shaykh Muhammad Nazim has been a reviver of Islam in > > Turkey and has campaigned against its secularization. He is the highest Islamic > > religious authority in Turkey and Cyprus, and he is the most famous religious > > figure for the Turkish people. > > Assalamu alaikum, > > I don't wish to steal Shaykh's Nazim's thunder, but what I have heard is > that the largest tariqa in Turkey is the branch of the Naqshbandiyya > lead by Prof. Mahmud Es'ad Cosan. This branch of the Naqshbandiyya > runs, for example, many schools and magazines, and Prof. Es'ad Cosan > has written many books (in Turkish, so I haven't read them, since I > don't speak Turkish). > > If I am not mistaken, the lineage of Shaykh Nazim comes from Daghestan, > currently part of Russia. I am not sure about the lineage of Prof. Es'ad > Cosan, but I expect it is probably from within Turkey. Prof. Es'ad Cosan > is based in Istanbul, I supposed with the movement of Shaykh Nazim or his > Shaykh from Daghestan to Turkey (Shaykh Nazim is now based in Turkish > Cyprus), there are (at least) two branches of the Naqshbandiyya in Turkey. > > I have met Prof. Mahmud Es'ad Cosan. He is, in my own experience, a > very blessed Shaykh. He is a former Professor of religion at one of > the universities in Turkey, so he is an Islamic scholar. He gave up > his university post to lead the tariqa. He is very well known in > Turkey, and I have the impression that in whatever part of the world > there is a Turkish community, you will find members of his tariqa. > This is certainly true where I live (Melbourne, Australia), where > there is a very large tariqa, which I have alhamdulillah attended, > despite language difficulties (since I don't speak Turkish, and the > Shaykh's representative here does not speak very good English). > > Wassalam, > > Fariduddien Rice Thanks for the info. I really know very little about the various schools and who is big and who is not. I copied the description out of a brochure. It struck me a rather boastful but I do understand that a shaykh's mureeds will sometimes become quite enthused with the wonderfullness of their shaykh. From what I have heard by people who spent time with Shaykh Nazim, he is quite a humble man. Prof. Mahmud Es'ad Cosan sounds interesting and I just got psychic flash ( good feeling ) when I read his name. Anyway, thanks. Oh yes, and for a picture of Shaykh Nazim try http://members.aol.com/naqsh/sufi/index.html Sometimes you can get vibes from a picture too. - -- Michael Moore home page --> http://home.aol.com/michaeljm8 ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 06:01:05 +0700 Subject: Re: humor Tanzen's comment on the chess-playing dog joke: >> He replied, "He's not so smart. I beat him 2 games out of 3." >> >> Why is this joke funny? > >Surprise... an aspect of "expect the unexpected". - --I'm asking, "what is the surprise that makes the punchline funny?" - --It is already "unexpected" that a dog plays chess -- the first line. What is "unexpected" about the final line, and why is that funny? - --Explain this, and then we can compare with the "unexpected" answer that I got from one of my Thai students... martin ------------------------------ From: Martin Schell Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 06:01:10 +0700 Subject: modest clothing Beloved Friends: Despite the hot humid climate, the "traditional" clothing that I have observed among Thais, Malays, and Indonesians in public generally covers the entire body except for hands, lower forearms, ankles, feet, neck, and face. Javanese women often wear a kerchief over their hair, but the front of their neck might be exposed a bit. The "jilbab" is seen among perhaps 10% of the Muslim women here (the vast majority of whom are Sunni). There is a debate among various Muslim groups in Indonesia about whether the feet should be covered. Covering the face is impractical and extremely rare. I have seen only a handful of women wearing gloves in public. Socks are slightly more common, despite the fact that those women often wear rubber "flip-flop" sandals. Men will sometimes appear topless if working or lounging near the house, or working as day laborers. But they rarely will go anywhere beyond the worksite or home without a shirt. I have heard that some of the Minang of West Sumatra get angry when they see a male tourist walking around without a shirt. In my grandfather's day (circa 1920), it was standard practice for American men to wear a shirt while swimming at the beach. (Nowadays, it's a good idea, due to the sick condition of the ozone layer.) It seems that modesty in clothing is a matter of culture, custom, and climate, not strictly a matter of religion. Questions: 1. What is/are the standard(s) for "modest" public clothing for Muslims? 2. Within any given standard, what are the differences for men and women? 3. Where do these standards arise from? 4. How and why do standards change (if at all)? martin ------------------------------ From: Simon Bryquer Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 19:34:35 -0700 Subject: Re: What Mansur said BRYAN CONN wrote: > > Asalaamu Alaikum Friends! > > On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 ASHA101@aol.com wrote: > > > there. The problem is, as i'm sure most would agree, not wether we are all > > and each God or not God, but wether we are aware of it or not. Perhaps the > > most beautiful approach that i have seen are those masters and saints who > > refer to everyone as God and rarely make claims as to themselves. > > Yes, I certainly agree with you! If you are fully aware of your being as > God, and you are fully unware of your personal being/existence, then if > you are going to say anything, you will speak as God. You couldn't help > but to speak as God. Of course, if you aren't completely dissolved of > attachment to your own personal awareness, and are not fully experiencing > the sole thing which truly exists, God, then what good is it to say you > are God. In this state, I can only see it as harm. Feeding some part of > you which percieves it's current state as the highest state. Likely > preventing the possibility of experiencing anything higher. > > I don't know, I think I see the proclaimation of being God as more of a > slip of the tongue, that could never have been held back. If all reality > appears to be God, then every word one mentions will claim to be God. > > Just thoughts and opinions... Salaam!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Greetings to one and all-------------- I'm afraid it is, that is ali Haydar's poses, simply suffering from a case of not being a red hot poker. As people may already know from Sufi parlance, the state of immersion in Allah which has been compared to an iron poker being immersed in hot coals and when withdrawn the poker is still red hot, retaining, at least on the surface,the same quality of the hot coals. But the poker is not the coals. And having heard, or rather read, some of Mr. McElwain posts, I strikes me (pun intented)that as I've said above, he is merely a shadow of the poker. Salaams, Simon Bryquer ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #84 ****************************