From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #126 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/126 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 126 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens [B7L] Muir typos . . . Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Re: [B7L] BBC Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Re: [B7L] BBC Re: [B7L] favourite quotes Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens [B7L] Avon and Aliens [B7L] Galaxy Quest Re: [B7L] favourite quotes Re: [B7L] NYC get together [B7L] Brecht/Weill Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 [B7L] Old discussion on Hamlet, revisited Re: [B7L] favourite quotes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 07:33:10 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Message-ID: <391038A6.FAEE20A6@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having followed this thread with varying degrees of amusement and dismay, I'd just like to make the following observation: as much as this argument purports to be about whether or not Avon is damaged, it seems to *actually* be about whether or not Avon's cool, detached nature is a *result* of damage. Those are not remotely the same issue. Is Avon damaged? Are the others? I'd have to say absolutely yes. I've never met an adult that wasn't damaged in some way, though many aren't self-aware enough or brave enough to face it. Whether Avon is aware of his own damage is yet another issue (my answer-- yes, but it doesn't haunt or even occur to him except in his bleaker moments; in fact, he'd view that awareness as a strength, and despise and mistrust those who believed themselves undamaged. He did seem to understand and appreciate Mellanby's comments on blindness.) OTOH, are Avon's cool, unemotional facade, his personal reserve, his barbed wit a result or evidence of damage? Absolutely and most emphatically not. Roughly half the population are cooler types who prefer reason over emotion. Even within the cooler side of the spectrum there is a range. Avon's right out at the end of the range, but it's his natural state, not a result of damage or emotional barrenness. (In fact, I'd be inclined to guess that a significant portion of any damage he's accrued over the years is from being viewed as abnormal when he's perfectly normal for his type. Hence the wry comments such as 'She is more human than I am.') (The barbed comments are not nice, mind, but they are normal.) Neil wrote: > I sometimes wonder if all this talk about poor ickle Avon being 'damaged' > and 'dysfunctional' isn't just a way for some Avon groupies to reconcile > their attraction to the man with the fact that behind the acerbic wit and > saturnine good looks he's really just another arrogant macho moron:) More likely it's the natural but IMO deplorable human tendency to assume the self as a yardstick of normalcy. Therefore, if someone acts in a particular way, they must have the same sorts of motives the observer would have to have to exhibit that same behaviour. It ain't necessarily so. I find the comments implying that Avon must be some sort of alien or android because he doesn't display what some people think of as 'normal' emotions deeply disturbing, because they carry the implicit message that there is only one way to be healthy or normal, which message can be extremely damaging in its own right. I'd like to discuss this from a Myers-Briggs perspective, but I'll put that in another post, to avoid upsetting the penguins. Pity I'm too tired to take you up, Neil, on that arrogant macho moron remark ;-) Mistral -- I won't get to get what I'm after till the day I die.--Pete Townsend ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:08:48 -0700 From: "Ann Basart" To: "Blake's7" Subject: [B7L] Muir typos . . . Message-ID: <00ba01bfb519$df370cc0$ddeeb5cf@flp1> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFB4DF.314E8780" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFB4DF.314E8780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After I finished my (too-long) review of John K. Muir's "History & = Critical Analysis of Blake's 7," which Judith Proctor was kind enough to = put on her website, I discovered that that are many more typos than I = had noticed previously. (In his book, I mean.) "Kairopan" becomes "Kairopon" and (symmetrically, perhaps) "Sopron" = becomes "Sopran." "City at the Edge . . . " is translated into "City on = the Edge . . . " Geela becomes "Neela." And so forth. Why didn't this = man consult Neil's Sevencyclopedia??!! And I don't think I gave a clear enough idea of how repetitive = repetitive repetitive Muir is. But there are some good things, too. Question is, whether they are worth = the price of the book. Best, Ann abasart@dnai.com ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFB4DF.314E8780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
After I finished my = (too-long) review=20 of John K. Muir's "History & Critical Analysis of Blake's = 7,"=20 which Judith Proctor was kind enough to put on her website, I discovered = that=20 that are many more typos than I had noticed previously. (In his book, I=20 mean.)
 
"Kairopan" = becomes=20 "Kairopon" and (symmetrically, perhaps) "Sopron" = becomes=20 "Sopran." "City at the Edge . . . " is translated = into=20 "City on the Edge . . . "  Geela becomes = "Neela." And=20 so forth. Why didn't this man consult Neil's = Sevencyclopedia??!!
 
And I don't think I = gave a clear=20 enough idea of how repetitive repetitive repetitive Muir = is.
 
But there are some good = things, too.=20 Question is, whether they are worth the price of the book.
 
Best, Ann
abasart@dnai.com
 
------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BFB4DF.314E8780-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 06:07:27 +0100 From: "DragonFly" To: , Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Message-ID: <003201bfb586$a7b40060$d942883e@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are everyones favourite quotes? ???? julia-loughborough ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:48:51 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Message-ID: <001201bfb528$0ce02a40$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellynne wrote: > I'd say Avon is at least partly damaged. He has an emotional reserve > that seems to go far beyond normal, healthy levels and seems capable of > going through considerable difficulty to maintain it. This might be the point on which our divergent appreciations of Avon part company so widely. To me, Avon is flat out normal. That is, emotionally he falls well within the spectrum of normality. I'm not sure I would call him 'emotionally reserved' at all. Indeed, he's really quite animated compared to some I've met. > This somehow creates a mental image of Neil prefering stories where they > skip through sunlit psyches saying "Hello trees, hello birds," which must > be a complete misrepresentation of reality. Dont get me on that agane my dere hem-hem Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:15:29 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC Message-ID: <001101bfb528$08186900$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Neil replied: > > >ground > > And Sally said... > >Too true...I've been ......wondering if too much enthusiasm will get the > film > >(which I dislike the idea of more every time I hear about it, but that's > >just me) really off the ground... Prompting Gnog to ask > Why ? Different fans relate to B7 in different ways. Check out Una's q-sorts. I suspect that those fans who appreciate the series in its entirety, as a self-contained subcreated universe, are those most likely to be horrified at the thought of any more B7 being made. Such fans are those who are most likely to have constructed their own coherent or near-coherent reconciliation of all the anomalies and contradictions within the existing canon, which is now regarded as closed and finite. A new movie, or an entire new series, would open it up and tear that delicate coherence to shreds (just as nearly all fan fiction does). The two radio plays certainly don't set a terribly promising precedent. OTOH, fans who just love the characters and don't give a toss about the background would love a new movie, so long as it handled the characters correctly. The prospect of beloved characters being mangled, however, might turn such a fan against any new production. That's how I see it, anyway. But it would need other people to speak up - for or against the putative movie - to show if there's any correlation with the different q-sorts. Neil ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 2000 19:36:30 +0200 From: Calle Dybedahl To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Message-ID: <86aei7h6xt.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "DragonFly" == DragonFly writes: > What are everyones favourite quotes? Servalan: "While there's life, there's threat." -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se "Our five main weapons are Invincible Ignorance, Not Invented Here, FUD, derision, wild-eyed ranting, ad hominem attacks, straw men, and, and...oh bugger." -- Joe Bednorz, A.S.R ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:06:57 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] BBC Message-ID: <004e01bfb532$d4675fc0$9a86bc3e@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally Manton" > > B) what I've heard of the projected story-line (Avon's been > basically propagandising for the federation since GP) > I hate, because (for me and me only) it would be hard > enough to imagine him, having killed Blake, to spend > *twenty years* basically helping to destroy any meaning > Blake's life might have had. I was listening to the latest "Together Again" tape last night and Paul was answering a few questions on the movie. Whilst obviously he couldn't give away the plot, what he did say about it did not correspond to this story-line. He was describing a situation where Avon has been in a sort of Napoleonic-style exile for twenty years and has been forgotten then suddenly he is active again. Or something like that anyway, I was well down a bottle of wine by then so I will need to listen to that bit again. Julie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:52:52 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] favourite quotes Message-ID: <001101bfb58c$fcf31060$8aee72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What are everyones favourite quotes? > >???? >julia-loughborough There isn't a volcano alive that would dare to swallow Avon. (Vila in Volcano.) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:21:00 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Message-ID: <000601bfb596$c7c101e0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: > Is Avon damaged? Are the others? I'd have to say absolutely yes. > I've never met an adult that wasn't damaged in some way, though > many aren't self-aware enough or brave enough to face it. Whether > Avon is aware of his own damage is yet another issue (my answer-- > yes, but it doesn't haunt or even occur to him except in his bleaker > moments; in fact, he'd view that awareness as a strength, and despise > and mistrust those who believed themselves undamaged. He did seem > to understand and appreciate Mellanby's comments on blindness.) And though I have to grit my teeth whilst typing this, I agree with her on every point in that paragraph. >I find the comments implying that Avon must > be some sort of alien or android because he doesn't display what > some people think of as 'normal' emotions deeply disturbing, > because they carry the implicit message that there is only one way > to be healthy or normal, which message can be extremely damaging > in its own right. Can't really argue with that either. > Pity I'm too tired to take you up, Neil, on that arrogant macho moron > remark ;-) Just my standard provocative flippancy to goad people into making fools of themselves. One day it might even work... Neil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 07:45:53 GMT From: "Mat Shayde" To: calle@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Message-ID: <20000504074553.89694.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >>>>> "DragonFly" == DragonFly writes: > > > What are everyones favourite quotes? "I am not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going." Avon (I watched Horizon the other day so it's fresh in my memory, but I've always liked that one anyway.) Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 01:37:17 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Message-ID: <20000504083717.51814.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mistral wrote: < More likely it's the natural but IMO deplorable human tendency to assume the self as a yardstick of normalcy. Therefore, if someone acts in a particular way, they must have the same sorts of motives the observer would have to have to exhibit that same behaviour.> I don't think it's so much different ideas of what "normal" is as (surprise!!) different ideas on what *Avon* is. We 'Avon groupies' (Hi, Neil!) are very very lucky in that - as Chris Boucher said somewhere, "(Avon) bad-mouthed a lot more than he actually did" - and then we all get to decide for ourselves if he would too have done what he was going to. Avon's blackest impulses are usually sidetracked or stopped by outside factors (the plot, Blake, etc). But given that (as I see it) ... - he truly considered helping the London crew to murder the other prisoners, and only stops because he works out that it *won't* get him what he wants. He then tries to stop Blake surrendering to save the others when Raiker makes it clear he'll kill the lot of them; - he tries to stop Blake putting out that plague warning in Killer - doesn't even *think* about the consequences of letting Servalan's people taking the plague (it's an interesting point as to whether it's worse to want to do it while aware of the consequences, or to be so indifferent to others that their lives don't even *occur* to him); - he is all for the destruction of Star One as long as *he* gets what *he* wants out of it; - he's severely miffed when the possible catastrophe at Auron (the message that "they're al dying" interferes with his personal plans for revenge, even though Cally is one of the few people he does care about; - he's completely serious when he tells Tarrant not to interfere *in any way* on Helotrix, that it doesn't matter if the entire population is being slaughtered. I think it's at least arguable that his level of unabashed self-centredness goes beyond what I'd call normal (even in a society like this one). Of course, someone who doesn't think he *would* have done any of the above had push come to shove would have a different viewpoint. But that's just interpretation of the ambiguous evidence of canon, and we *all* expect that to range all over the place, don't we? And as I said earlier, even this extreme level of self-interest is over-ruled by his almost knee-jerk instinct against letting anyone else trust him (it goes way past natural reserve when someone as survival-centred as Avon lets it actually endanger his safety). And then there's the few but fierce cases of commitment overruling even common sense, let alone his survival instincts (again, there's Star One, where he takes on the kamikaze defence of the same people he was perfectly prepared to let die to suit himself, simply because one other person - Blake - wants him too.) Avon has a lot of good points, and more importantly, he's more than tough enough to compensate for most of the less reasonable things that *something* makes him do. But that doesn't mean that we can't speculate on what it is that makes him do those things, and I'm with Ellynne, it's far more interesting to assume that he's been made that way by circumstance than he was just born, as I said, bloody impossible. There's a whole range of 'normal' ways to behave - we all know that. Vila I would call very normal, rather more so than Avon, even though IMHO he's even more selfish and self-centred. He's far *less* likely to let other factors illogically interfere with what he sees as central... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:12:02 +1000 From: Andrew Williams To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" Subject: [B7L] Avon and Aliens Message-ID: <4103E830BB67D211877400A0247B635E34DE5C@dialup49.actonline.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain > >Dana Shilling wrote: > > >>Avon is a self-hating human being, in the same way that Alexander > > >>Portnoy is a self-hating Jew > Joanne then asked >What, then, is his complaint? Avon's complaint was chilblains.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 03:11:18 -0700 From: Nick Moffitt To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] Galaxy Quest Message-ID: <20000504031118.X9362@zork.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii begin Murray quotation: > P.S. Have you seen 'GalaxyQuest'? While the film is obviously based > on Star Trek, mostly original series with a bit of The Next > Generation, there is a scene where an alien is shooting the command > crew of a ship in slow motion that reminds me of the episode > 'Blake'. Actually, it was Galaxy Quest that caused me to remember Blake's Seven and begin the weekly viewings here in San Francisco. Something about the early-eighties video effects in the mock TV-show just brought back some of that feel. And yes, there was a scene much like that at the end of Blake. -- CrackMonkey.Org - Non-sequitur arguments and ad-hominem personal attacks LinuxCabal.Org - Co-location facilities and meeting space Pigdog.Org - The Online Handbook for Bad People of the Future You are not entitled to your opinions. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 03:16:25 PDT From: "Hellen Paskaleva" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] favourite quotes Message-ID: <20000504101625.77102.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >What are everyones favourite quotes? > > > >???? > >julia-loughborough "Wisdom must be gathered, it cannot be given." - Zen, to Avon. "... but stories of [Blake's] exploits are still circulating. They excite people. The fact that he is still free gives them hope. And that is dangerous, Travis. Hope is very dangerous." - Servalan, to Travis. Hellen ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:05:58 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "Blakes 7 List" Subject: Re: [B7L] NYC get together Message-ID: <004b01bfb5c1$2eed9160$d9249ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd love to! I'm based in Toronto, wouldn't take too long to get to NYC, but money is too tight right now - I'm still awaiting landed status in Canada after moving from the UK, so can't work yet. It would be good to meet up with other fans. So if there are any other meetings later in the year, let us know. One of the problems living in Canada and not earning money.... I can't yet buy a dual system video to play my UK B7 tapes! Arrgggh! Steve http://webhome.idirect.com/~cgorman/b7/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: May 2, 2000 11:22 PM Subject: [B7L] NYC get together > As a Yank, I know I am often a wee bit jealous of those enticing bar > gatherings in London (a bit pricey commute for me). > > After finally meeting Dana Shilling face-to-face today, we discussed the > possibility of arranging something in the US, on the Eastern Seaboard, in > particular, New York. > > As Dana and I live in cities that orbit NYC, here's an open invitation to > those in the tri-state area, or others willing to travel, to let me know if > you're interested in gathering at NYC bar/cafe mid to late May. It will > likely be the Village or that vicinity. > > Trish > formerly prmolloy@aol.com > > "Auron may be different, Cally, but on Earth it is considered ill-mannered > to kill your friends while committing suicide." > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:45:41 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Brecht/Weill Message-ID: <000501bfb5c6$aa68a500$74ae4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for getting the wrong show--thanks Harriet Monkhouse for providing the correct information! I can't help thinking that, if languages other than Standard still exist, Avon really likes German--it takes ages to get to the subject of the sentence. Yesterday, I was listening to the "Solomon Song" from "Threepenny Opera" which is my nomination for S4 theme song. All I have is the execrable Blitzstein translation (which really gives an insight into fears for the TV movie). The first two verses deal with Solomon, "who was the wisest man on earth, and so he cursed the day of his birth...he knew that all was vanity...so, not much fun had Solomon" and Julius Caesar, assassinated by his friends "and all because Top Dog was he." -(Y) "I thought that having brains was good...guess not" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:44:21 +0200 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: b7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon and Aliens Message-ID: <7xY0viAVKWE5EwYm@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <000501bfb31e$1d41b720$e0604e0c@dshilling>, Dana Shilling writes >That's one of the many reasons why Avon has so many female fans--many of us >are fascinated by someone who has entirely abandoned the burden that >being/trying to be nice places on us. Quite. This INTx would *love* to be able to behave like that and get away with it. Although this isn't just the blatant "treating everyone else like morons"- it's also the refusal to conform with what the Es consider to be acceptable social behaviour, based on their belief that "normal" people desire constant social and emotional interaction. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:45:33 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #125 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/3/00 11:08:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time, dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk writes: > What are everyones favourite quotes? Dr Havand (TWB) - "Reality is a dangerous concept." Nina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:27:48 -0700 From: "Ann Basart" To: "Blake's7" Subject: [B7L] Old discussion on Hamlet, revisited Message-ID: <00b101bfb5d4$ede400a0$64d3b5cf@flp1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, Mistral was interested in parallels between B7 and Hamlet. I sent her this, and then thought some of you might be interested as well. Best, Ann abasart@dnai.com >Here is an old discussion, part of which which I saved. About Hamlet and >Blake, Hamlet and Avon: > >Rob suggested parallels between Blake and Hamlet which appealed to me >greatly, since Hamlet is my favorite Shakespearean play. However I do not >agree that the personalities of these two are the same, although their >circumstances do bear some similarities to one another. > >Hamlet is a tragic hero. To be a tragic hero one must not merely be a >participant in a tragedy, but be the character who could have resolved the >issue had he not possessed within him one tragic flaw. In Hamlet this tragic >flaw is clearly present; his tendency to rationalise and ponder rather than >take decisive action to challenge his uncle and kill him. Taking this action >would have resolved the entire situation, although of course it wouldn't >have been much of a play. > >Although Blake is a complex character, he does not have this single flaw, >and his death at Gauda Prime would not have been avoided simply by changing >one facet of his character. It is precisely because of the changes which >occur in him over the seasons of Blakes 7 that he is killed by Avon. His >lack of trust, his unclear communication and his secretive manner with >Tarrant, whom he knew was with Avon all contribute to his death. > >Blake is an idealist. He fights the Federation because it is wrong and >oppressive, and to free the oppressed, drugged masses. He does not fight for >personal or selfish reasons (although he has reason enough to do so) but for >a cause, a greater purpose. We know this because he was a committed rebel >even before the Federation killed his family >"Four Years ago . . . there were many activist groups. But the only one that >really meant anything was lead by Roj Blake. You and I worked together. We >were outlawed and hunted, but we had supporters and we were making >progress." —Bran Foster, The Way Back. > >Hamlet is motivated in his task purely by revenge: > "That I, with wings as swift > As meditation or the thoughts of love, > May sweep to my revenge" > — Act I scene 4 > >The wrong done to him and his father is personal, and nowhere in the play is >there any indication that Claudius makes a bad King, in spite of his murder >of his brother. Hamlet hates him personally because of Claudius' >relationship with his mother, and not due to any higher considerations. Thus >his motives are in a sense selfish, where Blake's are not. > >Hamlet also allows circumstances to rob him of the perfect opportunity to >kill Claudius, either through a moral objection to killing on holy ground or >because he feels that this death would shrive Claudius of his crimes, >allowing him into heaven. > > " Now might I do it pat, now he is praying: > And now I'll do it . . . > Why this is hire and salary, not revenge." > "This physic but prolongs thy sickly days" > — Act III Scene 3 > >Blake is clear about his goals, and neither circumstance, not morals, nor >the blandishments of his crew will turn him from them. For example Pressure >Point where he will do anything to reach central control, even if he must >act without his crew. > Gan: "Do you think you can do it alone?" > Blake "I'd rather not try. But if I have to I will not be alone." >In this remorseless purposeful pursuit of his goal Blake is more reminiscent >of Laertes, the son of Polonius and brother of Ophelia. Laertes too has >relatives to revenge. > "And so have I a noble father lost; > A sister driven into desperate terms," > —Act IV Scene 7 > >Blake's relatives are, coincidentally, almost the same: > "Your mother and sister are both dead . . . they were executed four years >ago just after your trial" —Bran Foster, The Way Back >Laertes's pursuit of his vengeance against Hamlet goes against all the moral >imperatives of the time, he is indeed prepared > "to cut his throat I' the Church." > — Act IV Scene 7 > >Blake's reaction to Cally when she questions the moral rightness of their >actions echoes this single-mindedness, the willingness to do any deed to >reach the desired goal. > Cally: "Many, many people will die without Star One." > Blake: "I know." > Cally: "Are you sure that what we're doing is justified?" > Blake: "It has to be . . . .We have to win. It's the only way that I can >be sure I was right." > >If any Blake's 7 character is similar in nature to Hamlet then it is Avon. >Hamlet's wish to avoid his destined role to resolve his father's murder is >most reminiscent of Avon's resentment of his involvement in Blake's cause. > "The time is out of joint; O cursed spite, > That ever I was born to set it right" > — Act I, Scene 4 > >Also, Hamlet is a scholar who could have been crowned King once his father >died (probably would have shortened his lifespan by a gnat's whisper!) but >instead wishes to return to university: > "For your intent > In going back to school in Wittenburg" > —Act I Scene 2 > which reminds me strongly of Avon's study of the sopron in "Harvest of >Kairos." > >The strongest similarity between Avon and Hamlet comes in their reaction to >killing an innocent bystander. Avon, in "Stardrive," is directly responsible >for the death of Dr Plaxton, but his cold, pragmatic attitude to her death: > Dayna: "What about Dr Plaxton?" > Avon: "Who?" >is every bit a callous as Hamlet's words when, having just stabbed Polonius >to death, he is disposing of the body: > "this counsellor > Is now most still, most secret, and most grave, > Who was in life a foolish prating knave." > — Act III Scene 4 > >If we take Blake as Laertes and Avon as Hamlet, the finale of the play is >most appropriate. After Laertes wounds Hamlet with the poisoned blade, >Hamlet wounds Laertes with that same blade. Blake could be said to have been >responsible for Avon's death in some sense, since his lack of communication >with Liberator had brought Avon seeking him. However, just as ultimately six >people die because of Hamlet's errors of judgement (Polonius, Ophelia, >Laertes, Claudius, Gertrude, and Hamlet himself), Avon, ironically, is >responsible for the same number of rebels killed at Gauda Prime (Blake, >Dayna, Vila, Soolin, Tarrant, and Avon himself), also through errors of >judgement. —Jenni > >Hope this is of interest, >Ann >abasart@dnai.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:14:22 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] favourite quotes Message-ID: <000301bfb5ee$6d11f300$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What are everyones favourite quotes? > >???? >julia-loughborough BLAKE: People collect odd things. JENNA: Look what you ended up with. ** AVON: It's a pity we can't all be as reliable as Zen. CALLY: But I thought you were:) ** CALLY: I'd quite like to be famous too. How about the woman who killed Bayban? ** SOOLIN: Something useful? AVON: Guns. SOOLIN: Something useful. ** VILA: I'll get you for this, Tarrant. I'll tear your arm off and beat you to death with the wet end. ** AVON: One down, one to go. ** EGRORIAN: Do you know the quote? No, of course you don't. ** Neil -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #126 **************************************