From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #183 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/183 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 183 Today's Topics: [B7L] Fave episodes Re: [B7L] Fave episodes Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones) [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones etc.) [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones ) Re: [B7L] Fav episodes [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #182 Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) [B7L] Blake's Jerusalem Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference [B7L] Re: fav episodes Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:11:05 +-100 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: [B7L] Fave episodes Message-ID: <01BFE1F5.52F52D60@host62-7-24-232.btinternet.com> Somewhat belated, RLs been busy, but here's the list: 1) Blake - how could it be anything else? This episode not only ended B7, it defined it. It's the reason that B7 stuck in my mind the way it did through all the B7-less years when I didn't know about fandom or zines or APAs. The episode hits you with disaster after disaster, offers the brief hope of sanctuary with Blake's group and then leaves you completely devastated. In the 18 years since I first saw this episode, I've watched a lot of TV, and I can name maybe 2 or 3 episodes of other series which have come close to this emotional impact. This is TV at its absolute best. 2) Terminal - more stunning TV. The scenes on Liberator, the Blake/Avon "meeting", the scenes with Servalan at the end are all fantastic. The destruction of Liberator as a symbol of the rebellion - what a stunning spaceship design that was. Dudley Simpson avoids intrusive music and leaves us with that great pulsing heartbeat on the planet, which really builds the tension. The only weak point is the Links, and Servalan's even weaker explanation of what they are. 3) Rumours of Death - and everybody else has already said why this is so cool (especially Neil's explanation). I love Anna - I find her very plausible as the type of woman Avon would fall for, she's fascinating and I think Lorna Heilbron did a great job. Angst? Me? Nah.... 4) Star One - I can't add anything more to what's been said. It's the culmination of all the political strife and the moral questions, our wonderful Servalan stages her coup, all the crew get a chance to shine. Brilliant scripting. 5) Shadow - this is the first truly brilliant episode of B7, raising all those moral questions and political wrangling and shadiness. Largo and Bek are fantastic, and once again teh whole crew gets a fair share of the action with sparkling dialogue. And it's another 4 out of 5 for Boucher, inevitably. If I'm allowed to add a number 6, it will have to be Gold, because I find the plot a pure delight with all its little twists, and I love Keiller. Tarrant pretending to be a dazed drug addict is just the highlight of an episode that's fun from start to finish. Louise ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:02:32 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes Message-ID: <0cca01bfe1f4$35be5880$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Louise wrote: > 5) Shadow - this is the first truly brilliant episode of B7 I think that's absolutely right, you know; altho' 'The Way Back' is something special. > raising all those moral questions and political wrangling and shadiness. Aha, I think that's what the difference is. There are clearly good guys and bad guys in TWB. Una ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:49:51 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) Message-ID: <00b201bfe1fa$e20f7280$500c9ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica Taylor added > Steve (Dobson) wrote: > >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights > >between Avon and Blake every other episode. > > > And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the > phrase "It's gonna blow". > But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American > version. Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant and Dayna. Been having problems with the list. Sending messages to it, but they're not coming back. Other peoples messages are though. Hope this works. Steve Dobson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:12:31 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones) Message-ID: <009101bfe1f5$cb268680$500c9ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica Taylor added : > >Steve (Dobson) wrote: > >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights > >between Avon and Blake every other episode. > > > And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the > phrase "It's gonna blow". > But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American > version. > Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant and Dayna. Steve Dobson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:59:22 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: Subject: [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones etc.) Message-ID: <00b701bfe1c1$8a147f00$7a0d9ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica Taylor added in : > Steve (Dobson) wrote: > >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights > >between Avon and Blake every other episode. > > And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the > phrase "It's gonna blow". > But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American > version. > Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant and Dayna. Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:28:42 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones ) Message-ID: <001501bfe1ef$8c50c480$500c9ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica Taylor added : > Steve (Dobson) wrote: > >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights > >between Avon and Blake every other episode. > > > And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the > phrase "It's gonna blow". > But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American > version. > Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant and Dayna. Steve Dobson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:06:18 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <0c6e01bfe1ec$5b211750$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: > From: Una McCormack > > Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody alien... > > I think it's an example of trying to do something beyond the capacity of the > > show. And that mars 'Trial' for me. For something to be the best of the > > best, it has to know its format and use it. > > I rather like Zil, as a failed-but-worthy attempt to portray something > genuinely alien rather than go down the easy ST latexhead route. Pushing at > the limits and getting knocked flat is, in some ways, more laudable than > playing safe. Hmm, phrased myself badly. Yes, I agree with that. But pushing at the limits and pulling it off is even more impressive. > > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the > > > Best Boots in the entire series. > > > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair > > > > I didn't notice any spots but then I wasn't looking at her chin:) I notice you don't deny the greasy hair. > But it's one of Boucher's talents that he can make 45 minutes of > next-to-nothing compellingly watchable:) A la 'Deathwatch'! > If there *had* been a more complex > plot it would have defused the ending, so he opted for a clean and simple > narrative with a very clear sense of direction. Just what the episode > needed. Or misdirection, I think. The whole episode is one of miscommunication and half-understood remarks. > > > So out of nine favourite episodes, only six were penned by Chris Boucher. > > > Odd. > > > > Funny, that. I note four out of my top five were Boucher scripts also. > > Now why might that be? Can't possibly begin to account for it. Um, it couldn't be something to do, say, with him being fucking excellent? Una ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:45:48 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: Freedom City Cc: lysator Subject: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 24 Jun 2000, Una McCormack wrote: > I just got back from delivering a paper on the Q study at a conference in > cultural studies in Birmingham. It's quite an important conference on the > circuit, so I was fairly chuffed to get the paper accepted. I was even more > chuffed when Henry Jenkins ('Textual Poachers' guy) turned up specially to > hear it! > > Unfortunately, we'd had to shift round the order of papers slightly and I'd > already spoken, but this ended up working in my favour as 1. I was already > nervous enough thank you very much; and, 2. it meant he came to speak to me > afterwards and asked for a copy of the paper, so email addresses were > exchanged > Excellent! I hope you gave him our love. > As a result of the paper, I also made contact with some academics working on > TVSF in the UK, Christ. How many of them are there? and one of them invited me to give a paper at a panel he's > doing on 'The Creations of Terry Nation'. I'm all jealous now. Woo hoo! I'm going to argue that > B7 was a Chris Boucher creation rather than a Terry Nation one, and I throw > that one over to you all for closer scrutiny! B7 is a collective creation, like any drama. (Note: anyone using the word 'auteur' in my presence who is not (a) French and (b) talking about books will experience my unrestrained bile.) To argue about whose creation it is, you have to think carefully about what you mean by creation. Obviously, there's a clear sense in which Terry Nation was the creator. However, if we ask about what makes B7 unique, about who created that part of the show that is distinctly its own and differentiates it from any other TV space opera, then it has to be Boucher. I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal all. > > Can I thank everyone again for contributing to the study, and then debating > the results with me? I had a brilliant evening last night, and it's because > of all the people round here. Happy to be of service, although the real credit is all yours. I'm glad the conference went well. Sorry for the late reply to this, but I've been on my hols. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:39:37 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna Message-ID: <4W6A05Apf5W5Ewbt@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message <20000629041204.92870.qmail@hotmail.com>, J MacQueen writes >A little akin to Avon chucking himself into the nearest body of water after, >say, Rumours of Death, if some of you can *ever* imagine his conscience at rest. >I think those who liked Colin Firth chucking himself into the estate's lake in >Pride and Prejudice will be sitting up and taking notice about now... Unfortunately that's his leather period. Leather doesn't cling when wet quite so fetchingly as say, the black silk shirt in Aftermath. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:55:46 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions Message-ID: <012401bfe3a5$dada1ea0$023e01d5@leanet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I will never doubt Una again. Ever. > >Morrigan (aka Trish) So you DO like Animals then ! Gnog ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:25:46 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Message-ID: <012501bfe3a5$dbee4dc0$023e01d5@leanet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ika < >Right. Now in 'Harvest of Kairos' Jarvik, .... > >As you can tell, I really don't know what I'm talking about, but if anyone can >tell me how the screens work and why this visual imaging technology should be >any more trustworthy than the scanning technology, I'd be grateful. The actual screens probably work in the same way that TV's, or LCD panels for PC's work today. The two main ways of geting a signal would be a) Detect radiation or particles emitted from the object. b) Detect radiation or particles reflected from the object from a source mounted on the ship (scanner technology) or another source. c) Be lazy like Orac, and ask the targets computer for information prepared previously. Bare in mind that you don't actually need many photons per second in order to actually build up an image. There is a lot of background radiation in space to reflect from the target (visible from stars, cosmic background at 2 cm wavelength or so etc etc)., ask the army, or even astronomers. So yes, it can be as simple as a very good camera. But, you are correct, the main screen on the liberator does not display a direct optical image, but an image processed by the computer. As such it is equally likely to be inaccurate as any other information the computers present. I think what Jarvik is refering to is that he has an instinct that there is a conflict between the two forms of data (main screen and Zen's verbal report). His instinct is also that the conflict must have arisen because somebody is trying to trick Zen, and so he believes the data which presents the weakest image. Of course, it is equally possible that a ship with a herculanium hull and a capacitively charged brain and advanced neutron blasters could project an image such as the one seen on the liberator main screen. Or could even actually look like a lunar module. Why not ? Who said powerful ships had to look good, the man who designed series 3 Federation cruisers ? On the whole this scene comes down to the theme of the episode. Servalan believes the direct output of the computer unquestioningly, and acts to minimise her personal danger. Jarvik interprets all of the information presented to him, takes into acount the human element, trusts his instincts, and takes calculated risks. How about Servalan only stunning Jarvik, rather than killing him, and Jarvik joining the crew, set on overthrowing a Federation regime so cold, heartless and dependant on technology ? A three way struggle for control ? > >(Also: can voice messages and images be transmitted faster than light in the B7 >universe? How?) It appears so, but they do appear to travel at a FINITE speed. In the same way that the ship travels faster than light ? The signals do pass through real space (not other dimensions or temporary wormholes or hyperspace or anything), because they can be intercepted. But as well as how fast they travel, how do they get them to travel so far. What about loss, what about the divergence of the beam. Gnog ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:40:43 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Message-ID: <012601bfe3a5$dd0ba4a0$023e01d5@leanet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ellynne G. >Sadly, I think Blake saw himself more as a reformer than a revolutionary. > The Federation may have BECOME evil, but it still payed a certain amount >of lip service to forms of just government. Blake probably saw himself >as the man who (eventually, at whatever cost) was removing the evil >infection and restoring a healthy body. I might agree with the "removing evil from the healthy body" bit. But doesn't "healthy body" kind of suggest that the Federation, as such, is not fundamentally evil, but rather a force for "good", that is suffering from a degree of corruption ? > >The way Robin Hood helped defend good monarchy from >bad. > Lets look at this example as an analogy. The party personified by the sheriff of Nottingham figure of popular legend abuses his power for personal comfort and gratification. He builds up a personal power base to further his own ends. Atrocities are committed by his subordinates in his name. And he misappropriates taxes. Lets say that makes him Evil. Does the fact that HE was evil, and that he smashed the quality of life of his subjects, some of whom were wrongfully denied status and possession (Robin Hood / Earl of Loxley), necessarily imply that the Feudal system itself was evil. Remember that Robin appeared to struggle against the Feudal system, not to overthrow the system, but to restore the rightful king to power. Gnog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:53:18 EDT From: B7Morrigan@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions Message-ID: <11.5c4b3c6.268d1f4e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I will never doubt Una again. Ever. > > > >Morrigan (aka Trish) > > Gnog: > So you DO like Animals then ! > I'd be backpedalling frantically were it not for the saving grace that I have not seen "Animals" (I don't have that video) and therefore I am in no position to state an opinion. So there. (I'll get you for that, Andrew. Don't turn your back at Redemption....mutter, mutter) Morrigan (aka Trish) "I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. " ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:58:18 EDT From: B7Morrigan@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision) Message-ID: <69.6faf0c6.268d207a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gnog wrote about message transmission: > It appears so, but they do appear to travel at a FINITE speed. In the same > way that the ship travels faster than light ? The signals do pass through > real space (not other dimensions or temporary wormholes or hyperspace or > anything), because they can be intercepted. But as well as how fast they > travel, how do they get them to travel so far. What about loss, what about > the divergence of the beam. > It would seem that there would have to be some sort of regeneration device, relay stations that boost the signal in some type of hubbing arrangement rather like long distance tandem switches. Of course, that would give our heroes some lovely targets; take out the relay stations and cut out an entire sector's communications with the rest of the galaxy. Morrigan (aka Trish) "I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. " ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:37:25 +0100 From: "DragonFly" To: Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #182 Message-ID: <009b01bfe27f$2f1fcb40$c758883e@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my questions. this is going to sound a funny questions (and I am asking on behalf of my husband) does anyone know Paul Darrow's agent address or where he would write to him on business level? whats happening with the proposed film? not heard much about it lately. Steve (my husband) bought me the Walking with Dinosaurs CD Rom. (I just love the Paul Darrows insults such as ' You are and evolutionary dead end' ) what does anyone else think? Julia - Loughborough ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:41:06 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants Message-Id: <4.1.20000629173809.00a69860@mail.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:51 AM 6/29/00 +0100, Una McCormack wrote: >in which a *very* young Brian can be seen stripped to the waist modelling >some very skintight underwear. You're not talking *prepubescent* here when you say "*very* young", are you, Una, buddy, pal? Suspiciously, Penny ______________________________ "No rules, no naps, no shoes!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:49:34 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Message-Id: <4.1.20000629174724.009e6a50@mail.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:32 PM 6/29/00 +0200, Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > > >Oh this is so great! Can I be bridesmaid? Can I, can I, please, please, please? > > Shouldn't that sound-effect be " "? -- For A Dread Time, Call Penny: http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:42:41 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) Message-ID: <005201bfe223$caaaff00$78019ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fiona requested : > > > Hollywood frequently seems to operate, IMO, on the Dr Goebbels > principle: > > > that is, that "the intelligence of the public cannot be underestimated." > > > > > Too true. The American Dr. Who shows this off well - chuck in a few car > > chases, a love intertest and some gangster shootings and the audience will > > be happy. Hmmm!! > > > > Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights > > between Avon and Blake every other episode. > > You want to read my article in Zenith (plug, plug!) Ummm.... I would if I knew what Zenith was... and it was available in Canada. *s* Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:00:49 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Sally Manton" , Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Message-ID: <000c01bfe220$fba6b2a0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Manton To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond > as distinct from the *only* member of Blake's new group that we > see, the hardened lowlife desperado named Deva. To be fair, though, how do you know he's not? Banality of evil, remember-- he could be wiping out thousands of lives every day with a penstroke. > Class/Nice (Our Heroes), Second Class/Not-So-Nice (theft, assault, being not > as pretty as our Heroes) To quote a Babylon-5 parody I like: "How do you know the chosen ones?" "They're in the opening credits, so you can't kill them off..." Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:58:00 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Dana Shilling" , "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Message-ID: <000b01bfe220$fae66fe0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Dana Shilling To: b7 Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 4:26 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond > correctly, NOBODY is supposed to know where Star One is, (what genius > thought THAT up? I think I used to work for him) and the entire > central computer control for hundreds of planets was supposed to be entirely > automated and would have been completely without personnel if a few people > hadn't volunteered to be stranded there. Talk about all your eggs in one basket. That scenario is *asking* for someone with a big ship and a powerful computer to go looking for it... Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:58:19 EST From: "J MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Message-ID: <20000630005819.14978.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Penny Dreadful > > >Shouldn't that sound-effect be " "? I will not, I repeat, I will not imagine Jacqueline employing a pogo stick as a means of locomotion. X100 Regards Joanne ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:08:24 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Christine+Steve" , "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) Message-ID: <000201bfe220$f238c1e0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Christine+Steve To: B7 Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons) > Nyder added > > > > Hollywood frequently seems to operate, IMO, on the Dr Goebbels principle: > > that is, that "the intelligence of the public cannot be underestimated." > > > Too true. The American Dr. Who shows this off well - chuck in a few car > chases, a love intertest and some gangster shootings and the audience will > be happy. Hmmm!! > > Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights > between Avon and Blake every other episode. You want to read my article in Zenith (plug, plug!) Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:51:44 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Jessica Taylor" , Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) Message-ID: <000a01bfe220$fa156440$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Jessica Taylor To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) > > > Dana wrote: > I can just imagine Gan leading them in a chorus > >of "Jerusalem." > > > Did anyone ever write a filk for "Blakes Jerusalem", I'd love to see it. No, but I once did a short-lived parody cartoon series called "Blake's Seven," in which William Blake, disgruntled with the London literary life, collected six romantic poets (Dorothy and William Wordsworth, Mary Wollstoncraft Shelley, Byron, Keats, Coleridge)and went off to run a poetic resistance movement from the lakelands. I don't remember much about it other than that Coleridge wound up being a kind of Vila figure, continually strung out on laudanum, and Mary Shelley was forever being taken over by divine entities. Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:02:58 EST From: "Jessica Taylor" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake's Jerusalem Message-ID: <20000630010258.4025.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed To whoever wrote the Blakes Jerusalem filk, Thank-you, I seem to have deleted the message a little fast so that I can't remember who sent it but thank-you just the same. Jessica ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:34:34 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Una McCormack" , "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <000501bfe220$f4e8edc0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said: > > > 4. The Way Back (going to get lynched for this I know, but I like the > > surrealism, and I think if the series had continued as it started, it > would > > have rivalled The Prisoner). And Una said: > Not at all. I often think that TWB is an episode from an entirely different > programme. To be honest, that's one thing I do like about "Sarcophagus." As I said it's not a favourite, mainly cos of the characterisation thing, but the thing that I do really like about it is that it's so different from the usual sort of story. Which is why I also have a fondness for stories such as "Killer" and "Shadow," which, while more within the conventions of B7, tend to depart from the whole Robin Hood/Che Guevara (depending on if Nation or Boucher's in charge) In Space scenario. Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:47:44 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Neil Faulkner" , "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Message-ID: <000901bfe220$f9199f20$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Faulkner To: b7 Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status > From: Ellynne G. > > Of the reams of gender power issues stories I've come across, there are > > the interesting Amazon stories (although Power was an exception, it's > > interesting that so many show an evil female hierarchy grinding down the > > males [hence, presenting a surface argument for the guys not to let > > females get to uppity] but they do this by presenting a role reversal > > that show the guys suffering an exagerated version of the women's > > position and finding it truly unjust and unbarable > > If you can find it, check out the essay Amor Vincit Foeminam by Joanna Russ I'd also recommend "The Gate to Women's Country" by Sheri S. Tepper-- it looks like it's going to be a run-of-the-mill gender role reversal story, but then winds up doing weirdly complex things. Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:42:18 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Alison Page" , "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) Message-ID: <000401bfe220$f3bace00$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Page To: lysator Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?) > Interesting post Fiona, > > >opinion is > >currently divided on whether or not carnival type activities act as a > safety > >valve or whether they, > >reinforce the status quo by presenting us > >with images of what should not be > > These are both rational, teleological, explanations, but there is another > possibility - that there are some human needs that can not be satisfied in a > rational way. Perhaps people can't help wanting things that spoil what they > have set up. You're right, of course-- though I do maintain that Cohen's theory about expressions of identity is less teleological, cos after all what *is* identity?-- but then anthropology in the UK has a long way to go in terms of the postmodern revolution. > It's probably true that the idea behind characters like Vila or Servalan > supports the status quo. But when they appear on screen they take on a life > of their own. I've been wanting for a long time to do a paper on fictional characters as social persons (i.e. as social entities in their own right) but haven't had the time... Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:40:46 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Una McCormack" , "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <000601bfe220$f59867a0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Una McCormack To: b7 Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes > Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody alien... I *like* the alien-- one of B7's few goes at doing a really alienesque alien, and it wasn't as overdone as it might have been. "Resist the Host or your Oneness Will Be Absorbed" has been a catchphrase around my family for ages (as has "the Host Stirs," mainly when someone staggers down late for breakfast, somewhat bleary-eyed). > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the > > Best Boots in the entire series. > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair > Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with the Boots! (um-- Ika? Back me up on this one. Ika? Ika?) > Did you see 'Star One' on first transmission, Neil? I wonder if I would love > it more if I had seen it then. That seems to happen with some episodes-- there are stories, e.g. The Web, which had me on the edge of my seat when I was watching them with no idea what was going to happen next, but which have since lost their attraction. > > Terminal - bleak bleak bleak bleak bleak > > Hmm. 'Dull dull dull dull dull' is usually what springs to mind. Hee. Have to agree with you there... Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:45:14 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: "Helen Krummenacker" , Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status Message-ID: <000801bfe220$f7fc4840$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Vila very clearly and completely outsmarts the two alpha(in both senses, > I believe) males. Which reminds me of another class thing that always makes me vaguely uncomfortable about Vila-- the story, later in the series, that he's got alpha-grade intelligence but deliberately failed the exams. Which says to me that a) delta-grade people can't be interesting and intelligent in and of themselves (if they're intelligent, it's cos they're not really delta grades); b) delta grades are seen as having the "easy option" workwise, as opposed to the challenging work of the alphas (I think the Daily Mail would call Vila workshy), and c) that delta grades are basically dysfunctional alpha grades (Vila is an underachieving alcoholic, as opposed to the alpha types who aren't). If you substitute "working class" for "delta grade" in any of the above, and map it onto the modern UK class system, these begin to sound like uncomfortably familiar stereotypes. > safe than he anticipated). Another lower class person, such as Rashel > from Weapon I'm not sure one can count Rashel as lower class, as she's a slave. In all the slaveowning societies that I'm aware of, slaves are kind of outside the class system entirely, usually cos they're not really considered persons. Although admittedly we don't find out enough about the slave system in the Federation to know if that's true or not. > Power isn't just divided on social class, but also gender. Servalan was > the only female who habitually gave orders to males, and she was 'evil'. > Justifying, fictionally, the real power difference between men and women > in most of society. Agreed wholeheartedly! Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:08:21 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Message-ID: <395BF304.B7D93D96@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joanne wrote: > I will not, I repeat, I will not imagine Jacqueline employing a pogo stick > as a means of locomotion. X100 I will. Heeheeheeheeheehee... Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:17:49 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Message-ID: <20000629.094845.-104627.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:32:59 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > > Ellynne wrote: > > > Gan - What we know of his crime suggests it was somewhat > justified. The > > basic impression is that his wife or significant other was raped > and > > murdered by Federation guards > > Can't remember if I've raised this issue before--I'd say this was > more > backstory you've hallucinated, if I hadn't seen so many other people > allude to it. There's nothing on my vids or in the transcripts about > Gan's > woman being raped, only killed. Does this idea come from the novels, > perhaps? As far as I've been able to discover, it's just not canon. > Well, I'd heard her refered to as raped and killed before seeing the episode in which Gan talks about it, so the idea was already entrenched. Granted, Gan didn't get into specifics, but that could be put down to the tendency TV once had to be discrete. OTOH, maybe Gan and his 'woman' were refugees from some serial killer movie and we _really_ don't want to know the details. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:08:29 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond Message-ID: <20000630080829.24357.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed After I wrote: < as distinct from the *only* member of Blake's new group that we see, the hardened lowlife desperado named Deva.> Fiona said (quite correctly): Absolutely true. But of course, so could Avon, Jenna or Tarrant have buckets of blood (enough to wade in) in their past - the fact that they look like Neil's cuddly munch bunch notwithstanding. The point I was making is that there's no overt reason to assume that Blake's new people - the *only* one of whom we see is Deva, who looks more middle-class and rabbity (in an utterly likable way) than all the Liberator crew put together - are worse than the old ones, or the pretty but lethal Scorpio crew. The only one, after all, who *looks* rather scary is GP Blake himself ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:20:17 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants Message-ID: <0da101bfe26d$b3a99010$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny wrote: > At 10:51 AM 6/29/00 +0100, Una McCormack wrote: > > >in which a *very* young Brian can be seen stripped to the waist modelling > >some very skintight underwear. > > You're not talking *prepubescent* here when you say "*very* young", are > you, Una, buddy, pal? Fret not, Penny. Although the selling of young children into slavery to textile manufacturers was, I believe, common in England just after the war, I think that Brian in these pictures is about 19, possibly early twenties. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:22:03 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes Message-ID: <0da201bfe26d$b40ff300$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fiona wrote: > > Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody > alien... > > I *like* the alien-- one of B7's few goes at doing a really alienesque > alien, and it wasn't as overdone as it might have been. Yes, you can fastforward through those bits and still have an episode left to watch. Neil/me/Fiona: > > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the > > > Best Boots in the entire series. > > > > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair > > > > Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with > the Boots! I watched it back last night, just to make sure I wasn't being unjust. Trust me. Zits galore. Una ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:23:21 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000630101541.00a8b100@pop3.wish.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:08 30-6-00, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: >Joanne wrote: > > > I will not, I repeat, I will not imagine Jacqueline employing a pogo stick > > as a means of locomotion. X100 > >I will. Heeheeheeheeheehee... And what, exactly, is so funny about using a pogo stick to move around? Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:25:29 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000630102403.00a8ca10@pop3.wish.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 18:45 29-6-00, Iain Coleman wrote: >I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm >afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal >all. That's three beers in all that you've managed to get out of us before redemption has even started. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 05:01:58 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: fav episodes Message-ID: <200006300502_MC2-AAB1-A302@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Neil wrote: >My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though >I think it's the overt Christian propaganda that puts me off. So what's your favourite Narnian episode? Mine is The Silver Chair. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 05:01:52 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna Message-ID: <200006300502_MC2-AAB1-A301@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ellynne wrote: > There was a certain, very evil entity (Fenris, I think, or >something like that) Fenric. Ooh, that was a lovely episode. Especially the scene where Ace distracts the sentry with the monologue that includes "Sometimes I move so fast..." I hadn't the faintest idea what she was on about, but it sounded wonderful. *I'd* have been distracted. Only it should have been the revelation about the baby that broke her down, not apparent rejection by the Doctor. Harriet -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #183 **************************************