From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #193 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/193 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 193 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #188 [B7L] After the Revolution Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) [B7L] Stock equalization Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Re: [B7L] Re: B7/DS9 crossover thing Re: [B7L] Jenna Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette [B7L] Re: ZENITH & misc. [B7L] Ansible mention Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:03:32 +0100 From: "Nyder" To: , Subject: Re: [B7L] Message-ID: <00ff01bfe78e$1a9e0880$5a1086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] > Perhaps Federation citizens are encouraged to see the state as God, in that > it is supposed to be the most important thing in their lives? I believe > that's how it worked in the Soviet Union. They'd need something, certainly-- or a Nazi-style cult of the leader/the uebermensch, whatever. It's an interesting anthropological fact that there are, in practice, *no* societies without some sort of religion or quasi-religion. Individuals may not believe-- in fact *lots* of individuals may or may not believe, but there's always *something* religion-like. Fiona Fiona Moore http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:51:21 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Message-ID: <20000706215121.29180.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed After Jurgen wrote: Neil queried: Yes ... after all, when it's 'Assassins and My Favourite Merchandise-to-Be pretending (very badly :-)) to be nice, naive and helplessly lost, we all put it down to *Kerr* being an endearingly lousy actor. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 22:18:20 CEST From: "Jurgen van de Sanden" To: penberriss@yahoo.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Message-ID: <20000706201820.84622.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed >I never saw any of those. Anything to do with the fan >club mentioned in my Programme Guide? Horizon has its own web site on www.horizon.org.uk, where you can find more info on the fan club. I can really recommend you to become a member. >I think you're reading too much into it. Fact is, she >doesn't have much to do in the story, so she doesn't >do much. > Well, she certainly has more to do in 'Trial' than in 'Countdown' for example. I love Jenna's scenes, even though her part in the episode is not that big and I might be reading more into it than there actually is. I especially like the way she stands up against Avon, which she seems to do in almost all of Chris Boucher's episodes. So there! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:03:12 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #188 Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000707003837.00a7b7b0@pop3.wish.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 20:10 6-7-00, Wendy S. Penberriss wrote: >--- Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > > > doing this? It would at least stop people from > > subscribing others as some > > sort of stupid prank. > >Now who would do a thing like that? The same kind of people who send around e-mail bombs or viruses. It seems that some of them get a kick out of subscribing others to lots of mailing lists so that their mailboxes overflow. It's an easy and hard to trace (for the victim) way of sending an e-mail bomb. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 08:17:17 +1000 From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] After the Revolution Message-ID: <20000707081717.B8158@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I got the following on one of my other lists, and figured that it was actually relevant to our discussion - the example of what happened to the leaders of the *American* revolution after they *won*. With this example, I don't think Blake was all that off beam to consider that he wouldn't survive. And no wonder Avon wanted to get out. ----- Forwarded message ---------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:05:17 EDT Subject: [CT] OT/What Happened To Them? ******* WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM? Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War. They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags. Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward. Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months. John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year, he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later, he died from exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing talk straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July Holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember: Freedom is never free! I hope you will show your support by please sending this to as many people as you can. It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Message-ID: <20000707004401.90934.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Dana Shilling" >To: "b7" >Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 10:17:21 -0400 Ika wrote: > >of course after the revolution the > > proletariat will decide and a whole new cultural/ideological milieu >which >we > > cannot yet imagine will be ushered in, Dana responded: >BUt it will be ushered in by people who had significant exposure to >bourgeois consumer culture, so it will be heavily influenced by then- >prevailing conditions. I think Lenins idea for after the Russian revolution was that actually setting up the communist state would be the job of the youth leagues who would grow up in a society that rejected capitalism. "In many respects the first half of the work has been done. The old order has been destroyed, as it deserved to be, it has been transformed into a heap of ruins, as it deserved to be. The ground hes been cleared and on this ground the young communist generation must build a communist society." V.I Lenin, October 2, 1920 I'd say that the same would be true for the Federation. The ones who grew up in the "bourgeois consumer culture" (Dana) would, in their lifetime destroy what was left of the old system of government, doing stuff like adjusting education and health so they are available to everyone and then progressively the system would change over time. Just MHO though. Jessica ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 23:24:36 EDT From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <7e.729103b.2696a774@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/2/00 5:50:32 PM Mountain Daylight Time, j_macqueen@hotmail.com writes: > "S Club 7 would not be popular pre-teen pin-ups if they line-danced their > way around the universe in a spaceship called the Liberator." Why do I get the feeling I'm better off NOT knowing who S Club 7 is/are? I've always been grateful that B7 never had an episode equivalent to original ST's bit with the space hippies -- even given Avon's occasional resemblance to a member of KISS. Nina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 00:59:58 EDT From: B7Morrigan@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <4c.7d39471.2696bdce@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Nina wrote: > I've always been grateful that B7 never had an episode equivalent to > original > ST's bit with the space hippies -- even given Avon's occasional resemblance > to a member of KISS. > Was it the clothing? I don't think it was the tongue (oh, better go to the other list...) Morrigan (aka Trish) "I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. " ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:07:53 EST From: "J MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <20000707050753.77532.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Pherber@aol.com >Why do I get the feeling I'm better off NOT knowing >who S Club 7 is/are? I would like very much never to have heard the Vengaboys, let alone a number of others, but it's much too late now... >even given Avon's occasional resemblance to a member of KISS. Hopefully not Gene Simmons. Please, not Gene Simmons! Mercy! (Although that might be preferable to "member of a boy band trying for an 'adult' image", I suppose.) Regards Joanne ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 22:21:51 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <396568EE.28EEE96@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nina & Joanne: > >even given Avon's occasional resemblance to a member of KISS. > > Hopefully not Gene Simmons. Please, not Gene Simmons! Mercy! You read my mind. (You see, there are some things worse than the jacket.) > (Although that > might be preferable to "member of a boy band trying for an 'adult' image", I > suppose.) That would be Tarrant in Powerplay. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 23:35:45 -0700 From: "Sarah Thompson" To: Subject: [B7L] Stock equalization Message-ID: <001101bfe7e0$b267c960$6cafcdcf@y1i7s9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fiona, in addition to Dayna and her father, and the two warlords, there is also an anonymous black individual in "Traitor," presumably thrown in just to prove Avon corect in his statement that Dayna would not be conspicuous on Helotrix because the Stock Equalization Act was in force at the time it was settled. I assume that bit must have been put in because the BBC had been getting awkward questions as to why there were no black people besides the Mellanbys themselves in Series 3. Even so, the African contingent in B7 is doing better than the East Asian contingent, which is represented only by that single rather unpleasant individual in "Children"-- Glinka, I think his name is. Re: Cleopatra, I believe the argument about her racial identity has to do with the maternal line, and the possibility that the Ptolemies may have mixed with the locals to a greater extent than is generally believed. (There's an argument about a specific royal consort who may have been Nubian or something, but I can't remember the details.) Also, of course, it involves the question of what race Egyptians count as in general, and that's the kind of sticky question that makes many present-day scholars want to throw out broad racial categorizations altogether and just talk about individual ethnic groups. Sarah T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 00:45:07 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Priceline (was Posting fanfic?) Message-ID: <20000707074507.14407.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Nina wrote: True, but they did have Space Rats ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:33:49 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond) Message-ID: <396595EC.82AC5547@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally & Fiona: > > non-unhappy. IMHO Carnell and the soldiers come under my heading of > > functionaries of the power structure (and willing instruments of > > oppression), and, since Marryatt seems to be in the employ of Servalan, > I'd > > put him there as well > > I'm inclined to disagree with you slightly; for one thing, what we know > about Carnell suggests he's more in the way of a freelance engaged for the > occasion rather than an out-and-out functionary. Been thinking about this. I got the impression that Carnell did work for Space Command in an official capacity, but was moonlighting for Servalan on an extremely UNofficial project that would have gotten them both in hot water. He did call himself an 'official psycho-strategist', and the aide/messenger was quite in awe of him and handed over an official communication. However I also got the impression that he was a tool of the power structure, as opposed to having any real power himself. Prestige, yes, but he needed Servalan's money and he didn't have enough power of his own, or enough powerful friends, to protect him from her when he failed, which would seem to imply there was no real power that attached to his job. He was a sort of human Orac--just a tool. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:50:43 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: B7/DS9 crossover thing Message-ID: <396599E2.48B6EE94@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > In my private canon Vila is actually an agent of whoever is behind the whole > first two seasons. Whether human, alien, or artificial intelligence. The > enigmatic 'forces' who made sure that the London, carrying just the right > people, stumbled across the Liberator, just the right ship. Who made sure > that Blake found Star One, and that Servalan was in a position to believe he > found it, and help him fight the andromedans. Interesting. What I find myself wondering is, does Vila know that he's an agent of these forces, or has he been somehow programmed, or not programmed at all but simply chosen to fill a role they knew he'd fill naturally? Sounds like you should write a story or two about this. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:36:28 CEST From: "Jurgen van de Sanden" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Jenna Message-ID: <20000707133628.97152.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Thanks again, Sally, for your interesting comments. One more question: what did you think of Jenna's part in 'Redemption'? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:04:27 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Message-ID: <003a01bfe83d$cc7f3100$09ed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jurgen wrote: >There was something about the review of 'Trial' by Jim Smith that I didn't like, though. He wrote that Sally Knyvette didn't appear to give a performance at all. Does anybody else on this list think so?< I don't see any bad acting by Sally but compared to what we sometimes see on Dutch television there isn't *any* bad acting in B7. :-) I think it's a pity that Sally Knyvette left because out from under Blake's shadow, her character could have developed the way it should have been from the start. Potentially, Jenna and Avon were well matched and it's a shame so little was done with that. With Blake gone, they could have engaged in a battle for command of the Liberator. Imagine at the end of Aftermath, Avon teleporting up to the Liberator with Dayna and being confronted not by Tarrant, but by Jenna pointing a gun at him: "Avon, what are you doing on *my* ship?" Jenna would have insisted they kept up the search for Blake and I think Cally would have backed her. That would have given S3 the needed direction and they could still have had all the adventures of that season, as the search for Blake would provide all the opportunity for them to encounter all those nasty individuals and phenomenoms. (I'm saying this badly but what I mean is that the writers wouldn't have had to go for things like recklessness, scientific curiosity or plain stupidity to get the crew into trouble.) Marian By the way, Zenith arrived today. I've just done a quick browse and it looks smashing! Compliments, Andy and Alan, and put me on the list for future issues. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:16:15 EDT From: JEB31538@cs.com To: freedom-city@blakes-7.org, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: ZENITH & misc. Message-ID: <61.5251e84.2697948f@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ZENITH I just received my copy of ZENITH today and let me say that it is absolutely wonderful. I urge EVERYONE to rush to order it. It's very nicely done. I had been afraid that there would be no Blake in it, but there is some. In fact, there is even a full size color photo inside the front cover. Thank you very much, Alan and Andy. I appreciate it. Order ZENITH through Judith Proctor at http://www.hermit.org/Blakes 7 The prices in pounds are UK 4.85, Europe 5.65, and Australia 7.15. For Americans it's 12 dollars cash. Of course, you can use credit cards. I think that every B7 fan ought to own this and support the fandom. Even though Croucher/Travis 1 is the main interest in this magazine, there are Blake and Avon photos and materials, too. I really urge everyone to get a copy. IF we support this venture, there will be more ZENITHS done, and this would be a definite plus for B7 fandom. We desperately need to get more print B7. MISC. THAT IS ADVERTISED IN ZENITH I noticed that there's an ad for AVON club in the magazine (p. 25), and I'd recommend that for a lot of fans, too. Even though Blake is my love, the AVON newsletter which does come out twice yearly is very interesting and AVON's fan fiction selection is rather varied and should have appeal for most fans. http://www.avon-paul-darrow.co.uk Also, I noticed on pp. 22-25 are reviews and an ad for the TOGETHER AGAIN tapes. Don't forget that there is CURRENTLY a limited reprint of two formerly OOP audio tapes: BLAKE'S BACK and LIBERATORED. These are fabulous tapes, and every fan should have these. If for some reason your collection is missing these two tapes, then NOW is your chance to order them. Again, Judith Proctor is selling these. http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 The basic price for each tape, including postage is 8.25 pounds for the UK and 15 dollars for the US. You can, also, order these directly through Sheelagh J. Wells, and Americans are NOT penalized for dollar checks. Sheelagh J. Wells, 20A New Road, Brentford, Middlesex TW8 ONX, UK . (The checks would be made out to Sheelagh J. Wells. ) I really must say that BLAKE'S BACK is one of my favorite B7 possessions. The front picture on the tape is darling, too. I love it. And lastly, for all Gareth fans.... P. 13 has an ad for THE ACTOR SPEAKS CD. These are available from, at least, three sources: Judith Proctor, Horizon, and the producer Mark Thompson. (You can link to these sites from Judith Proctor's site if you don't have the urls handy.) I haven't gotten my copy yet, so I can't recommend it based on hearing it. But I do want to remind GT fans that this is available, and that we all need to be supporting our B7 actors in their other ventures. THE ACTOR SPEAKS is 9.99 pounds, but I think that's for people in the UK. You'll have to check out the various websites to see what it is if you are not in the UK. Remember to support B7 fandom in various ways. I firmly believe fans should actively participate --and definitely not confine their participation to the net. I think for a fandom to be vital that there has to be a sizeable print presence. Joyce Bowen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:24:14 +0200 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Ansible mention Message-ID: <61D0eIAOBiZ5EwQ2@jajones.demon.co.uk> Quote from this month's Ansible: J.K.ROWLING, as the whole world knows by now, received an OBE in the Queen's birthday honours last month. (Also honoured was Josette Simon of Shakespearean thespian fame and _Blake's Seven_ infamy.) Someone scrag Dave for that at the next con, please... -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:52:22 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Zenith & Sally Knyvette Message-ID: <004d01bfe86a$8638a5a0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marian de Haan > Jenna would have insisted they kept up the search for Blake and I think > Cally would have backed her. That would have given S3 the needed direction > and they could still have had all the adventures of that season, as the > search for Blake would provide all the opportunity for them to encounter all > those nasty individuals and phenomenoms. (I'm saying this badly but what I > mean is that the writers wouldn't have had to go for things like > recklessness, scientific curiosity or plain stupidity to get the crew into > trouble.) But then the 3rd Season would have descended into trite formulaic predictability. Will they find Blake this week? Nah, 'course not, it's only episode 7. And if they'd done it that way, then we'd have lost some of the classic 3rd Season episodes, like Rumours, unless Blake really turned out to be Anna Grant in disguise. Neil -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #193 **************************************