From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #235 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/235 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 235 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel [ Betty Ragan ] Java Applets [ applet_graphics@123india.com ] Re: [B7L] Java Applets [ Calle Dybedahl ] [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Dana Shilling" ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Jeroen J. Kwast" ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Marian de Haan" ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ Betty Ragan ] The Jacket (was Re: [B7L] FC: New fr [ mistral@ptinet.net ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:22:29 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <399FF7B5.C4914FBB@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christine+Steve wrote: > I was watching Duel the other day and noticed this at the start : > > TRAVIS: Blake. The other patrols have pushed him into this galaxy. I knew > it, I knew it! This time I've got him. > > I was wondering if this was a slip, or does this mean the Liberator > routinely travels between different galaxies? *Definitely* a slip. (This is one piece of poor terminology that really, *really* puts my teeth on edge. It displays such a basic ignorance of the universe, and it's *so* easily prevented, and yet it's very, very common in media SF.) It certainly doesn't gel with "Star One." Either Travis misspoke, or Travis is completely clueless, or this is some new definition of the word "galaxy" with which we were not previously familiar. On a sort-of unrelated note, my all-time favorite astronomical terminology gaffe in B7 is "Cynus X-L" for what was surely supposed to be "Cygnus X-1" (a real astronomical object). Obviously, somebody got confused by the typography! -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 2000 08:49:54 -0700 From: applet_graphics@123india.com To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Subject: Java Applets Message-ID: <20000820154954.6816.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Hello, A request for all of you to visit the site www.geocities.com/applet_graphics. You can use all the source code there for free!!!! Also visit the exquisite rose flower animation to present your loved ones. The rose flower animation is available at www.geocities.com/applet_graphics/RoseExtreme/ExtremeRose.html Regards Applet_graphics team ______________________________________________________ 123India.com - India's Premier Portal Get your Free Email Account at http://www.123india.com ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 2000 18:27:59 +0200 From: Calle Dybedahl To: applet_graphics@123india.com Cc: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Java Applets Message-ID: <86itsvdhio.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "applet" == applet graphics writes: This user has been removed from the list and reported to the relevant abuse departments. -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se "Just about anything can be done if you are demented enough." -- Christopher C. Petro, scary.devil.monastery ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:53:56 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re:Liberator space travel Message-ID: <39A02944.26C@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I was wondering if this was a slip, or does this mean the Liberator > routinely travels between different galaxies? I don't see this gelling with > Star One - when the do leave the galaxy. I suspect Travis should have said > "pushed him into this system", or something like that. Any ideas? > > > Steve Dobson Ah... to interpret this playing the game, rather than rolling our eyes at a continuity error, I would suggest that this is evidence that FTL occurs by dimensional shift, and Travis is referring to the Liberator being forced back into normal space, thus being 'within the galaxy', which exists within 3 spatial dimensions but is 'flat' in hyperspace, allowing ships to go 'outside' it to take shortcuts. Does that work for you? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:08:27 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: "b7" Subject: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <001c01c00af3$646bf020$83694e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I were in charge of a series called Blakes7, and I had just found out that Blake had handed in his notice, I don't think I would have just nodded and said, OK, right, we have absolutely no Blake of any kind. Why not film a few episodes of The Quest for Blake (to give Gareth Thomas a chance to change his mind), then FIND him, in the person of another actor ("Yes, well, I had a good deal of plastic surgery to fool the Federation, even in its fragmented state" or "That life capsule didn't half prang")? A three-man interplanetary testosterone assay would have been fun to watch. Of course, my first choice for Blake II would be Stephen Greif, especially if they brought back Brian Croucher as Travis II ("there was a safety net underneath Star One" makes at least as much sense as "teleport malfunction" as an explanation of Servalan's survival after Terminal). And they could do the Marx Brothers mirror routine when they were chasing each other. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:40:59 EST From: "J MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Betty Ragan >On a sort-of unrelated note, my all-time favorite astronomical >terminology gaffe in B7 is "Cynus X-L" for what was surely supposed to >be "Cygnus X-1" (a real astronomical object). Obviously, somebody got >confused by the typography! They certainly would have if they'd been reading late '70s vintage New Scientists. Some library copies certainly confused me! Actually, I like the suggestion I read some time ago that Avon was influenced by the spreadsheet programme he'd been using for his embezzlement attempt. Regards Joanne ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:42:52 EST From: "J MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] FC: New frame captures Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: mistral@ptinet.net >Thank you, Lisa. Next to white coveralls, I do believe I like >brown vinyl the best ;-) With matador jackets close behind, I believe... Regards Joanne ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:44:05 BST From: "Gareth Randall" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Movie question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, Some of the longer-standing list members may recognise my name - I was a member aeons ago! I've popped back in because I figured that if anyone knows the status of the TV movie, they'd be on the list. Things seem to have been awfully quiet on that particular front for well over a year... would I be correct in the assumption that Darrow and Lighthill are still trying to get the funding in place? If this is something that has been done to death on the list (and consequently, everyone is sick of it), then I apologise for bringing it up again, but if someone could drop me a private mail to fill me in, I'd be extremely grateful! Cheers, Gareth ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:13:26 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Steve wrote: < I was wondering if this was a slip, or does this mean the Liberator routinely travels between different galaxies?> In the absence of a sensible explanation, I'll assume that Travis was woken up from his favourite Flash Gordon dream (he gets to be Ming the Merciless instead of Servalan, and Flash - who's developed suspiciously curly hair BTW - gets eaten nice and slowly by Venusian tree people) and takes a few minutes to bring his brain into gear, poor - errrr - dear. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:15:41 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dana wrote: SOMEONE ELSE playing Blake?!?!?! Bite thy tongue!!! next thing, someone will be suggesting a non-PD Avon ... Seriously, I'd never accept a B7 episode with either of them recast, unregenerate character junkie that I am (or with Vila recast, for that matter). While there's a lot of other things I like (and a lot of the characters that I like as well), central to my love or the show is Blake, Avon and the complicated relationship between them, and the wonderful chemistry between Gareth and Paul was crucial to that appeal. It just wouldn't be a tenth as interesting without that (even Avon and Vila - and the chemistry between those actors - just isn't as good). (Not that I'm biased or tunnel-visioned or anything, as you've all noticed). From what I've read, the producer knew that Gareth was *not* going to change his mind, and considered him irreplaceable in the role (a decision you surely don't expect *me* to disagree with :-)). And it wouldn't have been a three-way battle, because had Blake not left, they probably wouldn't have bothered coming up with one Captain Del Tarrant anyway ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:29:54 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Sally Manton wrote: > Dana wrote: > Thomas a chance to change his mind), then FIND him, in the person of > another actor ("Yes, well, I had a good deal of plastic surgery to > fool the Federation, even in its fragmented state" or "That life > capsule didn't half prang")?> > > SOMEONE ELSE playing Blake?!?!?! Bite thy tongue!!! > next thing, someone will be suggesting a non-PD Avon ... While I'm generally comfortable with heresy, I have to agree that recasting Blake would be very iffy indeed. The reason? Of all the main characters, Blake is the most difficult to cast. It's easy to think of other actors who could play Vila, Cally, Jenna and so on -- and Avon is an actor-proof role if ever I saw one -- but I find it very, very difficult to imagine anyone else as Blake. It's a complex role, demanding a blend of passion, heroism, ruthlessness, insecurity and danger that just wouldn't work if you didn't have exactly the right actor for the job. Avon, like Dr Who or Iago, could be played by anyone with an Equity card and a pulse. Blake isn't that kind of role. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 100 12:05:55 +0200 (CEST) From: "Jeroen J. Kwast" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: <200008211005.e7LA5t606829@pampus.gns.getronics.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! > > Dana wrote: > Thomas a chance to change his mind), then FIND him, in the person of > another actor ("Yes, well, I had a good deal of plastic surgery to > fool the Federation, even in its fragmented state" or "That life > capsule didn't half prang")?> > > SOMEONE ELSE playing Blake?!?!?! Bite thy tongue!!! > next thing, someone will be suggesting a non-PD Avon ... > What is wrong with another blake? I would love to see BlakeII on the screen today. Don't expect those old folk willing to appear again. I'm tempted to think you dont care about the show as much as the characters! :) > Seriously, I'd never accept a B7 episode with either of them recast, > unregenerate character junkie that I am (or with Vila recast, for that > matter). While there's a lot of other things I like (and a lot of the > characters that I like as well), central to my love or the show is > Blake, Avon and the complicated relationship between them, and the > wonderful chemistry between Gareth and Paul was crucial to that > appeal. It just wouldn't be a tenth as interesting without that (even > Avon and Vila - and the chemistry between those actors - just isn't as > good). > You call that seriously????? So you want me to believe that you rather have NOTHING than a brand new series bases on the original series with new characters? You don't think that it is even remotely possible that those new characters can have some chemistry going too??? > (Not that I'm biased or tunnel-visioned or anything, as you've all noticed). Not at all! I for one want to see a 2000 version of B7 because I LOVED the show. I like everything about it including the characters and the wobbeling. Lose 1 or 2 aspects -> doesn't mean the whole show. > > >From what I've read, the producer knew that Gareth was *not* going > to change his mind, and considered him irreplaceable in the role (a > decision you surely don't expect *me* to disagree with :-)). > I do. :) I really like blake but if the show would go on any other way that would be fine too. (although I still am not happy with the loss of the Liberator) > And it wouldn't have been a three-way battle, because had Blake not left, > they probably wouldn't have bothered coming up with one Captain Del > Tarrant anyway ... > That's for sure! Cheers, Jeroen PS: ANYTHING to get more B7 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:27:09 -0400 From: "Christine+Steve" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Liberator space travel Message-ID: <00d501c00b6b$33616140$e10e9ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helen Krummenacker added : > > I was wondering if this was a slip, or does this mean the Liberator > > routinely travels between different galaxies? I don't see this gelling with > > Star One - when the do leave the galaxy. I suspect Travis should have said > > "pushed him into this system", or something like that. Any ideas? > > > > > > Steve Dobson > > Ah... to interpret this playing the game, rather than rolling our eyes > at a continuity error, I would suggest that this is evidence that FTL > occurs by dimensional shift, and Travis is referring to the Liberator > being forced back into normal space, thus being 'within the galaxy', > which exists within 3 spatial dimensions but is 'flat' in hyperspace, > allowing ships to go 'outside' it to take shortcuts. Does that work for > you? Ahh yes, that could work. The Liberator's power drain was pretty high giving them diminished FTL ability, so had to stay in standard space. Much better than just a simple goof. Or maybe , as Betty says, Travis didn't do too well in space navigation school. Steve Dobson. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:37:23 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: B7 Mailing List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Liberator space travel Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Christine+Steve wrote: > > Ahh yes, that could work. The Liberator's power drain was pretty high > giving them diminished FTL ability, so had to stay in standard space. Much > better than just a simple goof. Or maybe , as Betty says, Travis didn't do > too well in space navigation school. Or maybe Travis had just scored some really kick-ass hallucinogens, and was personally in a completely different galaxy. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:28:10 +0200 From: "Marian de Haan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <001801c00b7c$09646ac0$afed72c3@marian-de-haan.multiweb.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally wrote: >> Seriously, I'd never accept a B7 episode with either of them recast, unregenerate character junkie that I am (or with Vila recast, for that matter). While there's a lot of other things I like (and a lot of the characters that I like as well), central to my love or the show is Blake, Avon and the complicated relationship between them, and the wonderful chemistry between Gareth and Paul was crucial to that appeal. It just wouldn't be a tenth as interesting without that (even Avon and Vila - and the chemistry between those actors - just isn't as good).<< I agree with everything but the last bit - I think the chemistry between Paul and Michael was as strong as between Paul and Gareth. :-) Jeroen replied to Sally: >You call that seriously????? So you want me to believe that you rather have NOTHING than a brand new series bases on the original series with new characters? > >You don't think that it is even remotely possible that those new characters can have some chemistry going too???< Nothing wrong with new characters, it's the same characters played by different actors that would not work IMHO. For me, Avon can only be played by Paul Darrow, Vila only by Michael Keating etc. Done by other actors, they would simply not be the same characters! For me the proof that recasting doesn't work is Travis. After Stephen Greif's subtle but sinister portrayal of Travis, I could never get used to Brian Croucher's interpretation of the character. Now this makes me wonder if those lyst members who prefer Travis II saw S2 before they did S1? I like the theory that we prefer the one we saw first, but of course I may be totally wrong. So, members of FINAL ACT and others, please satisfy my curiosity. Mind, I'm not asking for arguments why you prefer Travis I or II, I'd just like to know if the one you prefer is the one you saw first. The same goes to a lesser extend for S4 Avon. I saw B7 in the right sequence and I never could adjust to Avon's different hairstyle and behaviour in S4. But I'm aware that if I had seen that season first, when seeing him in Space Fall I would probably have jumped up, shouting: "That's not Avon!" :-) Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:43:40 -0600 From: Betty Ragan To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39A1401C.ACEE9E4C@sdc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marian de Haan wrote: > Now this makes me wonder if those lyst members who prefer Travis II saw S2 > before they did S1? I like the theory that we prefer the one we saw first, > but of course I may be totally wrong. So, members of FINAL ACT and others, > please satisfy my curiosity. Hmm, I seem to be a data point against your theory, I'm afraid. I first started watching the show in mid-2nd season, and thus the reign of Travis II, but when I went back and watched the show over from the beginning much later, I very quickly came to prefer Travis I. Of course, the fact that the time gap there was 10 years-plus might be relevant. I barely remembered what the second Travis *looked* like when I got around to watching the first one. > The same goes to a lesser extend for S4 Avon. I saw B7 in the right > sequence and I never could adjust to Avon's different hairstyle and > behaviour in S4. But I'm aware that if I had seen that season first, when > seeing him in Space Fall I would probably have jumped up, shouting: "That's > not Avon!" :-) I can deal with S4 Avon because I watched him turn into S4 Avon. If I'd been shown a random fourth season episode while still in my first viewing of the 2nd season, I probably would have been appalled. I do wonder if this theory might not hold for fans of Tarrant, and of the latter half of the show in general. Did most Tarrant fans, say, join the show originally during the third season (or later?). Did 3rd/4th season fans generally come in during the 3rd/4th season, or is it more usually a case of having watched it from the beginning and liking it more as it went along? (This is something I've been slightly curious about for a while, I must admit.) -- Betty Ragan ** ragan@sdc.org ** http://www.sdc.org/~ragan/ "Imposing Latin rules on English structure is a little like trying to play baseball in ice skates." -- Bill Bryson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:37:00 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: The Jacket (was Re: [B7L] FC: New frame captures) Message-ID: <39A13E8B.6BF54188@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joanne MacQueen wrote: > >From: mistral@ptinet.net > >Thank you, Lisa. Next to white coveralls, I do believe I like > >brown vinyl the best ;-) > > With matador jackets close behind, I believe... LOL! Apples and oranges, Joanne. The white coveralls and the brown vinyl are faves because they're associated with favourite eps; but The Jacket - ah! The Jacket is a thing of delight unto itself. When first I saw it, I was convinced that there was a special place reserved in hell for its designer, but after viewing the fourth series, I recognized it for the clever bit of foreshadowing that it is. The Jacket is blatant if unconscious self-mockery; it is Avon's sense of the absurd extruding into daylight. It is both mask and revelation; says both 'this is who I am' and 'touch me not'. Where the smocks and tunics of the first series show us an Avon moulded by his society; where the second season leathers show us an Avon freed from that society and its labels; where the outfit from 'Rumors' reveals the tragic-romantic that Avon sees himself as in his inner emotional life, The Jacket is a post-Rumors acknowledgement that Avon has seen the fool in himself, and is ready to get on with his life. It announcesto all he encounters: 'Love me or hate me, but stay the hell out of my way. You have been warned.' It is an externalization of Avon's interior landscape. It tells us.... well, you get the picture ;-) Perhaps you could get more in touch with these things if you wrote a filk about it? Just the thought of it makes me smile for at least an hour; the sight of it provokes gales of laughter. If I were a better seamstress, I'd try to copy it. Oh yes, The Jacket is a thing of Joy! (Or perhaps it's just one of those laugh or cry things.) Mistral -- "This is silly." -- Dayna -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #235 **************************************