From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #238 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/238 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 238 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Christine+Steve" ] Re: The Jacket (was Re: [B7L] FC: Ne [ "Ellynne G." ] Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? [ "Ellynne G." ] [B7L] Josette Simon sighting [ Jacqueline Thijsen ] [B7L] Re: The Jacket [ "Sally Manton" To: "B7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <000001c00d2b$e9c795a0$0e059ad8@cgorman> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle Dybedahl added :> >>>>> "Christine+Steve" == Christine+Steve writes: > > > I'd love to see John de Lancie try out for Avon, he's got a great sneer. > > And just imagine the crossover potential. > Maybe that's really how Avon survived the shootout - he was really a member of the Q having some fun. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:51:25 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <20000823.125859.-88155.1.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 16:28 21-8-00, Marian de Haan wrote: > > >Now this makes me wonder if those lyst members who prefer Travis II > saw S2 > >before they did S1? I like the theory that we prefer the one we > saw first, > >but of course I may be totally wrong. So, members of FINAL ACT and > others, > >please satisfy my curiosity. > Speaking for myself, I believe I saw Travis II first. Then I saw a lot of S3 and S4 before it got around to S1, at which point I tried to remember if that's what Travis had looked like but decided I must be getting confused. Then S2 rolled around again. OTOH, I've never really developed a strong preference for one Travis over the other. T1 seems to radiate a greater humanity but T2 got to take more of an active role in events. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:57:41 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: The Jacket (was Re: [B7L] FC: New frame captures) Message-ID: <20000823.125859.-88155.2.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:00:28 GMT Ika writes: > My personal theory re: the Lobster Top is that Blake (or someone - > no, probably > Blake) was telling him off for wearing too much black/grey and > making the place > look depressing, so Avon thought: Right. I'll wear something *red* > and see how > he likes it. Ha ha ha. > I am suddenly reminded of the Hercules episode where Hercules is having a talk with Hades, king of the dead, in Tartarus (the Bad Place for dead people to wind up in [I'm assuming everyone knows this, but minor explanatory notes can't hurt too much if I'm wrong). Hades is complaining how his prospective mother-in-law, Demeter, is always getting on his case. He's too serious, she doesn't like the way he dresses, etc. Hercules looks at him and says, "Well, it is a little dark." Hades, very exasperated, waves a hand at all the eternal torment going on and says, "Have looked around you?" Avon as Hades. The scary thing is that actually could work.... Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:44:10 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <20000823.125859.-88155.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:47:50 -0400 "Christine+Steve" writes: > Calle Dybedahl added > > :> >>>>> "Christine+Steve" == Christine+Steve > writes: > > > > > I'd love to see John de Lancie try out for Avon, he's got a > great sneer. > > > > And just imagine the crossover potential. > > > > Maybe that's really how Avon survived the shootout - he was really a > member > of the Q having some fun. > Well, it puts a whole, new light on all the arguments Blake and Avon had. Q only argues with Picard to get his goat. He doesn't really care about how dangerous the mission is. Hmm, and it puts a whole, new light on any potential Avon romance, since the missus might show up and object. Suddenly, the odd chain of coincidences in Rumors makes sense. And I suppose Anna was just set up to die there at the end by you-know-who. Also, for any PGP stories, Avon/Q could just wave his hand and bring back anyone he wanted to, erasing memories if necessary (which may have happened in previous episodes, given some of the unlikely messes they escaped). Orac, of course, was really Wesley Crusher trapped in a box until such time as Q thought he deserved to be let out again. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:05:00 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Josette Simon sighting Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000823215717.00a72520@pop3.wish.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I just saw an episode of Kavanagh Q.C. called Blood Money with Josette Simon as one of the guest stars. She played a surgeon called Hilary Jameson who was accused of negligence. She didn't look much older to me than during her B7 days, but she did look a lot more mature. I hated the little braid at the base of her neck, though. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:44:19 +0300 (EET DST) From: Kai V Karmanheimo To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Travis I or II Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello again. Well, I finally had something to say, even if it's not on a very pleasant subject. Which Travis is better and why? I admit that Travis is by far my least favourite regular in the whole series. I have never really been able to seen him as more than a walking, wafer-thin cliche whose repetitive cat-and-mouse encounters with Blake I could have lived without. Admittedly, he makes me ponder about him simply because he seems so horribly one-dimensional that I have to try to invent some substance or face him as nothing more than a shadow with an eye patch (speaking of which, why didn't they just go for broke and have Travis rave something like, "Rrr, just ye wait Blake. I'll catch ye yet an' when I do, I'll haul ye under the keel of me pursuit ship!"). The fact that there are two very different versions of the same character does nothing to help me like him. Having to choose between the two, I still prefer Stephen Greif's version. Yes, this is partially because I saw him first and on first seeing "Weapon" was actually slow to realise that Brian Croucher was suppose to be the same character. But mainly it is because Greif has stronger presence, and he seems to suggest more depth, some hint of other emotions rather than simple-minded sneering and raging. It is also with Travis 1 that we have the few moments when the writers actually seem to suggest something a bit more than just your average blackhearted mad henchman. This is of course more the question of writing than portrayal, as some of the possibilities suggested by Travis 1 were discarded with Travis 2. Coming after Greif, Brian Croucher is somehow the "lighter" version in most respects, lacking both Greif's presence and range, though packing more rage and aggression. His portrayal may in fact be more fitting to the idea of Travis becoming a loose cannon and eventually a loose doomsday weapon, but it also seems increasingly compressed, stripped of any finer nuances that would make me care. I would again lay some of the blame on the writers for not trying to explore the possibilities of Travis' whole ultimate-betrayal-for-betrayal scenario more or at least trying to get more out of the whole set-up, but when I look at the few poignant scenes like Travis' courtroom speech in "Trial" or some of the scenes in "Gambit", where there seems to be clear openings for a wider palette to be deployed, I can't help but to think that it is all very narrow and undynamic. Now I am not putting down Brian Croucher, and I have no idea whether Stephen Greif would have worked better in these scenes. I just feel that while Croucher is good in lot of the menacing scenes (his best scenes in "Trial" are the ones after Blake's attack run), Travis 2 is otherwise painfully flat and tunnel-visioned (I also wonder whether this had anything to do with the fact that so many of Travis 2's episodes were directed by George Spenton-Foster, whom Croucher apparently clashed with). So perhaps that is the key-point in my prefering Travis 1. In T1 I see possibilities and a suggestion of depth, while in T2 I see a rabid dog amoking across the city. In the first case, I am occasionally even interested in the character's fate. In the second, I am only hoping that the inevitable bullet that is the only solution in a case like this, is already in flight and will reach its target as soon possible, letting the poor beast out of his misery and me from having to watch it go through its motions. Having said that, I think Travis' death scene in "Star One" is staggering and adds additional weight to the already excellent episode. At least when I watch that I can think, "twenty episodes too late, but better late than never." Kai ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 06:56:07 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <20000824065607.C17672@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:06:39AM -0400, Christine+Steve wrote: > > I'd love to see John de Lancie try out for Avon, he's got a great sneer. But he doesn't suffer beautifully. (idea!) Mel Gibson for Avon! (Kathryn cackles hysterically) Actually Mel might make a good Blake. Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "I never doubted that. I never doubted your fanaticism. As far as I am concerned, you can destroy whatever you like; you can stir up a thousand revolutions; you can wade in blood up to your armpits. Oh, and you can lead the rabble to victory - whatever that means. Just so long as there is an end to it." -- Kerr Avon, to Roj Blake (Blake's 7: Star One [B13]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 07:06:12 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <20000824070612.D17672@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 04:55:04AM -0700, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > > > Kathryn Andersen wrote: > > > > > Yes. Exactly. Precisely. I'd rather have no B7 than bad B7. > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean bad B7. It doesn't have to be the same angle. We know the actors > > > are older now so they won't come back. If we use new cast then mucho people of > > > this list don't want to watch it! (I'll take a peek though :)) > > > > Yes, but considering what happened with the radio plays, *bad* B7 is > > the only B7 we're going to get. > > It really makes one think that TPTB don't understand what made > B7 popular at all, doesn't it? (Then again, maybe the fourth series > was all the proof of that that was needed.) And if that wasn't enough, look at the novels, "Aftermath" and "A Terrible Aspect". The thing that gets me is, how TPTB conclude that people don't want a (radio/TV/novel) continuation of a show when, say, the novels don't sell, and they think that people don't like the show, when the real answer was that the show is still wonderful, but the novels are absolutely awful. They think that all they need to do is slap a label on it, and it will sell, no matter how crappy it actually is. Fans do actually have some taste and discernment, you know. Most of them, anyway (she amended, thinking of some of the absolutely crass things she'd seen merchandised under the Trek franchise...) Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Avon: That was close. Vila: No respect. They obviously didn't realize who you were. (Blake's 7: Deliverance [A12]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:34:55 GMT From: kminne@camtech.net.au (Ken Minne) To: B7 Lyst Subject: Re: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: <39a46680.745954@mail.camtech.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good day all, On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:30:26 -0600, Betty wrote: >Iain Coleman wrote: > >> Possibly. However, I doubt they even got that far. Even such limited >> intergalactic travel involves much greater distances than interstellar >> travel. > >Plus, it seems to me there'd be a lot less incentive for expanding in >that direction. There's an awful lot of nothing between here and the >next galaxy: no planets to explore and conquer, no place to stop and >refeul or resupply. It'd be an awfully long, boring, unprofitable trip, >just to be able to say that you'd made it to the Lesser Magellenic >Cloud. What if ( to rip off Larry Niven's At the Core ) intergalactic or just extragalactic space allows travel at higher rates precisely because it is so empty. For Larry's universe, not having to constantly dodge stars at Quantum II hyperdrive made for a much faster trip. Other things could be less drag from the intergalactic medium, or better ramscoop efficiency. So once you get out into extragalactic space it may be like getting onto an empty autobahn, you can set the cruise control for flat out and let her rip. Staying in the galaxy would be like driving across a city via back streets, you have to constantly stop and turn to avoid solar systems, nebulas etc. BTW is it ever established in the episodes that the Liberator uses a Ramscoop system to collect fuel? So if the Liberator ( and the Federation pursuit ships ) find they can make the run to say one of the Magellenic Clouds, then the reason for not going may turn into assets. The scenario would go something like this : Avon : It will take six months of uninterupted work to get the ( insert technogadget ) working .. Vila : We barely get to look at a solar system before the Fed pursuit ships come sniffing around. Blake : So we need to loose them for that long ... Jenna : I reckon we could make it to the < insert tiny undiscovered satellite galaxy > in four months .. Gan : Nobody has ever been there before .. Blake : Great! No Feds. Zen lay in a course for ... Travis to mutoids : Where are you Blake? We have hunted you everywhere in or around Federation space .. Mutoid : Rim Fleet Admiral reports no trace of the Liberator at the edge of the Galaxy, Sir. Travis ponders, playing with a star map. Light bulb goes off above his head. "Of course, Order the Rim Fleet to Search the < satellite galaxy >, but not to engage the Liberator. Blake will be coming home, and when he does, I will be waiting for him.=20 =20 Catch you later, Walter Minne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:51:26 EDT From: B7Morrigan@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: > > > >Avon, like Dr Who or Iago, could be played by anyone with an Equity > card > > > >and a pulse. > > > > > > Iain, we here at FINALACT have Big Plans that require you to be Pope, > and > > > here you are trying for Sainthood instead. > > > > But the two are not mutually exclusive. Many Popes have been canonized, > > starting with St. Peter. ;-) > Neil > But not many Popes have played Avon, though. When I hear Pope and Avon in the same sentence I immediately think Medici. Morrigan "When I get a little money I buy zines; and if any is left I buy food and clothes." (apologies to Erasmus) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:38:06 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: <4.1.20000823231101.0093c6d0@mail.powersurfr.com> Message-Id: <4.1.20000823231101.0093c6d0@mail.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:28 AM 8/23/00 -0700, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: >I'm afraid I'll never be allowed into FINALACT, because I like >both Travii Contrary to popular misconception, virulent hatred of T-1 is *not* necessary for FINALACT membership (although it is a nice plus, as is a flair for karaoke). All we ask is a healthy appreciation of T-2 in and for himself. Join us, Mistral! Come to the Dark Side! >(they are so different! how can you say one is better?) It all comes down to the Swimsuit Competition. -- For A Dread Time, Call Penny: http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:02:08 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: b7 Subject: [B7L] Get Onboard The Coltrane (was Re: Why Not Blake II?) Message-Id: <4.1.20000824005757.00930c50@mail.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:25 AM 8/23/00 +0100, Iain Coleman wrote: >Ah, but in my ongoing one-man Robbie Coltrane For Avon campaign, I must >note that Coltrane has played the Pope, and is thus ideal casting for >Avon. I thought Harriet was also in favour of said bold casting choice. And I'll join you as well if you'll agree to let Ralph Fiennes at least be Vila. -- For A Dread Time, Call Penny: http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 05:16:12 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <39A5120B.368B430B@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny Dreadful wrote: > Contrary to popular misconception, virulent hatred of T-1 is *not* > necessary for FINALACT membership (although it is a nice plus, as is a > flair for karaoke). Sorry. Elitist that I am, I only work with live backup. I could, however, volunteer to crochet some antimacassars for the comfy chair. > All we ask is a healthy appreciation of T-2 in and for > himself. Join us, Mistral! Come to the Dark Side! So you're telling me that Travis II fell through the reactor and came out Darth Vader on the other side? I always knew Orac reminded me of Yoda. Uh-oh. I'm getting this terrible urge to filk 'Lola': O-rac, Oh-oh-oh-oh-o-rac, Oh-oh-oh-oh-o-rac... > >(they are so different! how can you say one is better?) > > It all comes down to the Swimsuit Competition. Oh. No contest, then. Brian Croucher it is. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:07:16 GMT From: "Hellen Paskaleva" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Liberator space travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Neil Faulkner" > > > I am not sure that the series ever established how much of the Milky > > > Way humans had explored, so it may be that the Federation is confined > > > to the rim of the Galaxy closet to the path taken by the Andromedans. >Surely that would depend on what direction Andromeda lies relative to our >galaxy. If anyone did make a beeline for our galaxy from Andromeda, which >bit would they hit first? If you imagine the Milky Way projected on a clock, where the Earth is far away in "9 o'clock" direction, then Andromeda will be approximately in "1.30 o'clock" direction. (Or, in other words, ~30 degrees clockwise from the North Pole.) I think. This places Star One a bit out of the main bulk of stars in the center of our Galaxy. Hellen ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:41:42 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-ID: <200008241141_MC2-B0D7-464@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Iain wrote: >Ah, but in my ongoing one-man Robbie Coltrane > For Avon campaign, I must note that Coltrane has = >played the Pope, and is thus ideal casting for Avon. I thought Coltrane For Avon was my idea? Trawling through the archives..= . = Yes, I stated that "I'd quite like to see Coltrane's Avon, myself" on November 11, 1996. When did you start? What I'd forgotten was that Darren suggested Ed Harris for Travis, and I agreed as long as we could have James Woods for the other season. I'm happy, of course, for the one-man and one-woman Coltrane campaigns to= join forces. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:46:48 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Why Not Blake II? Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Harriet Monkhouse wrote: > Iain wrote: > >Ah, but in my ongoing one-man Robbie Coltrane > > For Avon campaign, I must note that Coltrane has > >played the Pope, and is thus ideal casting for Avon. > > I thought Coltrane For Avon was my idea? Trawling through the archives... > Yes, I stated that "I'd quite like to see Coltrane's Avon, myself" on > November 11, 1996. When did you start? Aargh! That's about a year before I joined the list! I claim independent inspiration, although I am forced to acknowledge your prior publication. > > What I'd forgotten was that Darren suggested Ed Harris for Travis, and I > agreed as long as we could have James Woods for the other season. > As I watched 'King Lear' last night I realised that Amanda Redman _must_ be Jenna. > I'm happy, of course, for the one-man and one-woman Coltrane campaigns to > join forces. I offer you my virtual handshake. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:32:27 GMT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: The Jacket Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ika wrote: Or - given his soooo amenable nature ... several of them were rummaging through the latest offerings one day, Avon picked up it up, more out of idle curiosity than anything else, and Blake (or Jenna) looked across and said "you're not actually thinking of WEARING that bloody awful thing, are you?" Avon immediately decided that was EXACTLY what he would do ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #238 **************************************