From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #248 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/248 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 248 Today's Topics: [B7L] birds and the characters [ Judith Proctor ] RE: Re: [B7L] Horizon: The B7 Apprec [ nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net ] [B7L] Stephen Greif [ Judith Proctor ] Re: [B7L] Page movement [ "Alison Page" ] Re: [B7L] Mail [ "Una McCormack" To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] birds and the characters Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Neil gave us permission to use his comparison of the characters with birds on the web site and we've added illustrations of the relevent species. The result is hilarious (well, I nearly pulled another muscle laughing at it). Take a look on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 07:20:01 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] reviews Message-ID: <20000902072001.B1956@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote: > We had a suggestion in the web site guest book that we publish reviews of > on-line fiction as well as of fanzines. > > It seems like a good idea. > > If anyone would like to write reviews of any fiction site or of particular > stories then we'd be happy to put the review next to our link to the site. If folks are interested in zine reviews and online fiction reviews, I also have a reviews page However I think there's only, like, one B7 net-fic story reviewed there, cuz 90% of the net-fic I've been reading since I started the net-fic reviews page has been from The Sentinel. Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "You're wasting your time. They won't have radio. The only technology they're interested in is on wheels or flies or goes bang." -- Vila Restal, on Space Rats (Blake's 7: Stardrive [D4]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 20:58:30 -0400 From: "Dana Shilling" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon's type, etc Message-ID: <011201c0147a$6117f6e0$cb6b4e0c@dshilling> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain & Ika (12s of 7, by analogy with Seven of Nine): > > Oddly, that's the same score I got. > > Iain > And me. > Love, > Ika Well, now we know what Deva was fussing around with in those computers. -(Y) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 20:39:22 -0500 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Mail Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20000901203553.00ad1960@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Calle Dybedahl wrote: >There is only subscribed and not subscribed. I never understood the >point of "subscribed but not getting the posts" anyway. It's very useful on lists which don't allow an auto-subscribe. Without a NOMAIL option, the list owner has to resub you each time you are offline for a bit and come back, which gets tedious. As long as you can subscribe yourself, there's really no need for a NOMAIL option. - Lisa -- _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ From Eroica With Love: http://eroicafans.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:31 +0100 From: nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net To: "Mark Spencer" , blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: Re: [B7L] Horizon: The B7 Appreciation Society Message-Id: <20000902060252.F0EF8F8183@chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net> ----Original Message----- >From: "Mark Spencer" >Horizon is not a closed system to outsiders (fercrissakes, they let me in!), Ahem. I seem to recall saying earlier that the articles of several contributors to Zenith, my own included, would not have been published in Horizon due to the authors not being members. Fair enough, we could always join... but it occurs to me that DWM, DWB etc. don't force their contributors to take out a year's subscription as a condition of publication. Good luck with H40, it sounds a monumental task. Fiona http://redrial.com/nyder/indexx.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 09:05:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Stephen Greif Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII According to Cult Times, the Stephen Greif Mythmakers interview video is due for release on 4th September. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:46:45 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Page movement Message-ID: <20000902234645.A11953@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone who's interested in my picture gallery page (with mostly B7 pics on it) -- it has moved. The new URL is . Kathryn Andersen -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Blake: Does it support any intelligent life? Avon: Does the Liberator? (Blake's 7: Project Avalon [A9]) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://www.foobox.net/~kat \_.--.*/ | http://jove.prohosting.com/~rubykat v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:26:19 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Page movement Message-ID: <027901c014eb$77e8f600$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Damn, from the title I thought there was finally a political cause I could believe in whole-heartedly Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:30:43 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: Re: [B7L] Recasting and Cricketers Message-ID: <200009021230_MC2-B1E8-89F4@compuserve.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Joanne wrote: >Given allegations of misconduct involving > the female of the species, I'm surprised = >Warney wasn't linked with Vila. If that's the qualification, most of the cricketing circuit would qualify= . = I often wonder who the one maritally faithful cricketer of Imran Khan's acquaintance was. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 19:47:26 -0600 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #246 Message-ID: <20000902.115146.-88577.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:24:42 -0800 "Lysias" writes: > Helen: > > >I think you've hit the nail on the head. It feels very different to > lie > >to someone, versus outwitting them by sidestepping the question, > using > >acting skills, etc. I guess it's a question partly of... fair play? > To > >lie (deliberately mistating facts) is cheating? > > I think that the difference between lying and deception is an > entirely superficial one. After all, the overall effect is the same; > you have caused someone to believe something which is incorrect, > through your own deliberate efforts. Well, ethically, yes, you're right. OTOH, if we're just talking fiction, misleading truths are SO much more fun than lies. I mean, how interesting would the climax of Macbeth be if Macbeth tells Macduff he can't be killed by any man of woman born and Macduff just says, "I think they were lying." [Kills Macbeth] "Yep, they were lying."? Or how about that great moment in Return of the King when the Witch King says he cannot be killed by a man and Eowyn reveals she's a woman? (for those who keep track of such things and may have wondered why they didn't attack him with woman warriors sooner, I've always liked the fact that the Witch King got hit by all three definitions of man at once [a human, a male of more or less humanoid or at least sentient species, and singular known], since he was attacked by a woman and a nonhuman hafling simultaneously). I must also admit (slight pause while shuffling feet and looking elsewhere before admitting to ethical indiscretion) telling half the truth for purposes of misleading is (more foot shuffling) less uncomfortable than telling a bald faced lie. Or so I've heard. Going along with the traditional courtroom oath, the nineth or eighth commandment (depending on whether you go with the Catholic or Protestant breakdown) does something similar with "Thou shalt not bear a false witness." (I know, it takes all the fun out. Even the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth leaves a little wiggle room for giving in to personal slants and possible even delivering the whole truth in such a way as to alter meaning [the difference between "He died suddenly," meaning "I had no idea he had a heart ailment," vs "He died... suddenly," meaning "Get the cops and the coroner and I hope no one's disturbed the crime scene."]) So, I guess the question is whether Avon would be likely to tell the truth because of some kind of ethical scruples, finding it more comfortable than out and out lying, some kind of Avonishly bizarre scruples (he hesitates to actually alter facts because it could come back to haunt serious scientists or Orac), because he so enjoys ouwitting someone with the 'truth,' or because (like the witches in Macbeth [if you've seen one of those versions where they're hanging around silently at the end]) he just loves to see the look on someone's face when they find out what it is he REALLY meant (which means the odds on Avon having something to do with the To Serve Man cookbook - or at least misleading Vila about its contents - would be...?). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:27:46 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Mail Message-ID: <0a0501c01515$640b42d0$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy, > Can anybody tell me how to suspend the list for short > periods, without actually unsubscribing? I went away > for a week and I had a HUNDRED emails in my inbox! You can sub to the digest version, but if you're using Outlook, it sends them in a way that's not terribly easy to read. I've found that unsubbing when I go away and resubbing when I get back is the best way, and I use the web archive to catch up on what's been going on. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:38:27 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 II? Message-ID: <0a0601c01515$6463ea20$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain wrote: > The chap who supervised my PhD once spent a good bit of time working on a > rather obscure problem in general relativity. He solved it, and submitted > it for publication, only to be told that the solution had been published > in the 50s in some Russian journal that nobody ever reads. I know how he > felt. I just got back from a postgrad summer school where we were all in the middle of our PhDs. Someone told me a story of how she was going past the back of the library of Trinity College Dublin, and saw a skip full of PhD theses. I feel much better knowing that mine is substantially electronic. ObB7? Well, you've had absolutely loads of bloody brilliant threads while I've been away, you bastards, so I'm taking my brilliant insight away in a huff. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:57:33 +0100 From: "Una McCormack" To: "B7 List" Subject: [B7L] Join the Q Message-ID: <0aa201c01518$0f013670$0d01a8c0@codex> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison: > I wonder if we could persuade Una to do a Q-study grouping fans in terms of > what other TV shows they like? Not in this lifetime! > Or what films and books they like? It seems > unlikely that likes and dislikes would be distributed completely at random, > but you'd need industrial strength statistics to get it all sorted out. That's the key point, actually - I don't think it's a Q study, more of a survey, and they're fundamentally different things (Q methodology doesn't group fans or people to start with, but now I'm getting boring). Neil: > Una's study involved the ranking of a closed set of elements (the episodes) > which every participant was presumed to be familiar with, or at least seen, > whereas a study of the sort you're suggesting would involve an effectively > open set where every participant would be drawing on elements they've > selected for themselves. Whether or not a Q-study could work in such a way, > I don't know. But I suspect not. Not everyone reads books. Some don't go > to the cinema too often. There are even those who don't watch television. > Methodology could be a serious problem here. Inventing your way out of methodological problems is what it's all about. Iain: > Una's not around at the moment (off doing productive research, I think), Yup (well, the week before last). Fifteen interviews in four days. And the Q sort got coffee spilt on it round about interview number 3. It's a jungle out there. > or I'd just wait for her to answer this one. My own understanding of Q > methodology is deeply superficial, but from the chats I've had with Una I > gather the issues you raise aren't hugely problematic. The advantage of > the very strictly bounded B7 study was that people could self-report their > conclusions in a well-defined way. In more open studies, the researcher > typically has to conduct interviews. I think the answer is somewhere between the two: Neil's right that the content of a Q sort has to be meaningful to the participants, but the B7 study was unusual in that I had a ready made set of Q statements, i.e. the episode titles, which already made sense to the people I wanted to study. Other studies I've done start from a much earlier point, and involve developing the Q sort in a variety of highly skilful and deeply perceptive ways such as interviews, textual analysis, etc. etc., as you say, Iain. Drawing on something Mistral wrote: > I wonder if a simpler way might be > to ask fans if they've noticed a pattern or theme in the books and > shows they like? I could envisage doing a Q study using statements like: 'I like stories which are about polictical activism'; 'I like science fiction'; 'I like fantasy'; 'I like dystopic fiction'; 'I like character-driven stories'; 'I like romance fiction' etc. etc., but I don't think that would quite do what Alison was after, which would indeed involve industrial strength statistics and, as Garak says about all suicide missions, is well outside my field of expertise. > Perhaps we could arrange a grant. God Bless You, Iain, and All Who Sail in You. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:19:50 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #246 Message-ID: In message <20000902.115146.-88577.0.rilliara@juno.com>, Ellynne G. writes >So, I guess the question is whether Avon would be likely to tell the >truth because of some kind of ethical scruples, finding it more >comfortable than out and out lying, some kind of Avonishly bizarre >scruples (he hesitates to actually alter facts because it could come back >to haunt serious scientists or Orac), because he so enjoys ouwitting >someone with the 'truth,' or because (like the witches in Macbeth [if >you've seen one of those versions where they're hanging around silently >at the end]) he just loves to see the look on someone's face when they >find out what it is he REALLY meant (which means the odds on Avon having >something to do with the To Serve Man cookbook - or at least misleading >Vila about its contents - would be...?). Judging him by some of the INT scientists on this list - all of them at once. (yes, I include myself in that remark, I'm not embarrassing the others by mentioning names). -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #248 **************************************