From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #94 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume00/94 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 94 Today's Topics: [B7L] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking=2E=2E=2E_?= Re: [B7L] Time Squad - A Cally Perspective (long) Re: [B7L] Take heed of what you post... [B7L] manners [B7L] Que Sera Sera [B7L] What do we want from Horizon? [B7L] Re: The Cally POV Neil's girls Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage [B7L] Carmen Re: [B7L] REM lyrics Re: [B7L] forwarded posts Re: [B7L] manners [B7L] An example to us all [B7L] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BB7L=5D_Re:=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking..._?= Re: [B7L] Avon's skills and Blake knowing about them [B7L] Avon's skills [B7L] Re: [B7L] REM lyrics [B7L] Avon's skills [B7L] Outfits [B7L] Penguins again [B7L] Re: Anna [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures RE: [B7L] Andromedan Battle Hym and Commander's Lot [B7L] forwarded posts Re: [B7L] Horizon discussion [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction Re: [B7L] Re: The Cally POV Re: [B7L] Avon's skills RE: [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures RE: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:46:04 +0300 (EET DST) From: Kai V Karmanheimo To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking=2E=2E=2E_?= Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello. Since someone opened the floodgate, a few thoughts about this whole lurking business and what makes you want to post... I've been on this list for about six months now and have made less than twenty posts during that time, so I think that makes me an "occasional" poster. It has been noted that the recent Horizon debate encouraged many lurkers to post, which I agree is very good. However, I was reminded of my own start on this list and how completely opposite my reaction was to a certain other hot issue. I subscribed around the same time as the original "Lightergate" affair erupted, and though I missed quite a lot of the debate because of the technical problems I experienced with my whole e-mail setup at the time, I do remember thinking whether I should just make a graceful turn of exactly 180 degrees and leave without ever posting anything. I didn't of course, as I eventually posted something on the subject of episode quality. I delurked because I wanted to talk about that subject and I felt I had something to say about it, whereas in-fandom power politics and smear campaigning (as the whole affair appeared in my eyes then) wasn't something that I could say anything about nor wanted to associate myself with. But that is just to say that different people are attracted to different things (and *not* to criticise anyone's approach), and as this list is a forum for discussing (nearly) everything dealing with Blake's 7, you are nearly always faced with things both relevant and irrelevant to yourself. Especially because it's about Blake's 7. The thing that amazed me the most is how different people are in their appreciation of Blake's 7. What makes the series attractive, why do you go back to it, how do you enjoy it - ultimately what is that ever-elusive signifier that this one given name with its possessive suffix and single numeral stands for in your mind? Everyone has his/her own answers to these questions. Some of them have been really surprising, some inspirational, practically all of them entertaining. A cliche I know, but the variety of approaches and interpretations is what makes this such an interesting forum. I can't say I have enthusiasm for all approaches, but then no one has. The point is that things move and develop. Whenever I get disillusioned and start believing that what I've joined is actually nothing more than the Cult of Avon, someone throws in a new and interesting thread, and restores my faith. So why do I post or don't post? Well, I read through every digest. If the thread doesn't interest me (e.g. generally anything to do with any part of Avon's anatomy, with the possible exception of his missing tooth) or doesn't seem have relevance to me (e.g. the Horizon discussion), I ignore it. If it does interest me but I have nothing to relevant to add, I usually don't post (though I think I should at least acknowledge them more readily). In other cases, I will write something, time and tide allowing. My time is often very short, and as I am in digest mode, it's often old news by the time I read about it and someone has already voiced my thoughts. Tide here means simply that I'm not always equally receptive to different things. When I've got other things on my plate, I may only give a passing glance to a post I would in other circumstances reply to. Enthusiasm fluctuates and the relevance of themes changes. Still there are many aspects of Blake's 7 I enjoy and many I could talk about. One of these days I may even get around to writing a proper, original post on one of them. As for the threads I don't care for, let others chase them. But even though I'm not constantly chattering, I'm still here and following things with interest. Kai ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:59:00 +0300 (EET DST) From: Kai V Karmanheimo To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Time Squad - A Cally Perspective (long) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As I said I should acknowledge interesting posts more readily, here goes: A great analysis. Thank you for posting it, and keep at it. We need threats like this. Kai ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 00:16:06 +0100 From: "Ariana" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Take heed of what you post... Message-ID: <00f401bf9c00$1d82aee0$35ed07c3@ariana> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > example, an attack of repeat fever on the part of the BBC may give your > boss the notion to watch this programme to find out why your office wall > is decorated with posters... Ah, but that eventuality is precisely why some of us choose to use pseudonyms. My family and colleagues are way too savvy about the Internet to miss a Web site that might have my real name on it (as it is, they'd find a page about a band called Alphaville -- source of 'Ariana' -- but not my naughty Star Trek stories). Though I try to avoid saying things I might regret anyway. Ariana http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:46:17 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] manners Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'm sitting here with a dear friend whom I met via this list. This is the second time she's been to stay with me. In light of the current flame war, I find this extremely ironic. Kathryn is a committed Christian; I'm a dyed in the wool athiest. She has personal and religious objections to slash. I write extremely explicit homoerotic material. We should obviously hate one another... It isn't necessary to hate people who happen to hold different opinions. It isn't necessary to be rude to them. It is perfectly possible to get on very well with them. Kathryn is far from being my only friend whom I don't share all my opinions with. I've good friends who love Tarrant, other friends who dislike slash, friends who who work for Horizon, as well as equally dear friends who think porn is wonderful and Avon is God's gift to women and dislike some of Horizon's policies, (and various combinations of the above) All it needs is a willingness to agree to disagree and to find the things that you enjoy in common like filking and watching song vids and enjoying Carnell and theatre, etc. I find it very distressing when a nice bloke like Peter, who hasn't even posted anything during the current debate, gets abusive mail. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:03:15 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Freedom City Subject: [B7L] Que Sera Sera Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Que Sera Sera by Judith Proctor and Kathryn Andersen Blake: When I first came aboard this ship I said to Zen, what will I be? Will I have victory? Will men be free? Here's what Zen said to me: (chorus) Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be, The future's not mine to see Que sera, sera Avon: When I first came aboard this ship I said to Zen, what will I be? Will I find safety? Will I be rich? Here's what Zen said to me: (chorus) Jenna: When I first came aboard this ship I said to Zen, what will I be? Will I be flying, and looping the loop? Here's what Zen said to me: (chorus) Vila: When I first came aboard this ship I said to Zen, what will I be? Will there be drinking? Will there be girls? Here's what Zen said to me: (chorus) Gan: When I first came aboard this ship I said to Zen, what will I be? Will I find friendship, and people I trust? Here's what Zen said to me: (chorus) Cally: When I first came aboard this ship I said to Zen, what will I be? Will I find honour? Will I go home? Here's what Zen said to me: Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be, The future's not mine to see Que sera, sera Zen: When Orac came aboard this ship I said to Orac, what will I be? Am I alive? Will I survive? And Orac said to me: (spoken) Trust me, you don't want to know. (we *were* going to do a filk for Rashel, but someone started humming Que Sera Sera and we ended up doing this instead) K & J -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:42:02 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] What do we want from Horizon? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 01 Apr, Peter Borg wrote: > However, recent posts on this list suggest alternative agendas beyond > expressing opinion. Exactly what do these people expect to happen? Do they > want Horizon to close? Be handed over to someone else? If so, fine, say so. > You're entitled to do so. What I would like to see is the following: 1. Clear, public policy statements. I want to know what Horizon's official policies are. eg. Redemption is now no longer linked from the Horizon web site. Is is Horizon official policy not to mention the convention in any way? (In spite of the fact that Horizon has advertised and been present at numerous slash-friendly conventions in the past - Who's 7 for example.) (Yes, I have a vested interest here, but I don't mind a policy that is applied evenly and without bias. If the same rules are applied to *all* conventions, then I've no cause for complaint. If the policy is never publically stated, then I cannot challenge whether it is being evenly applied.) 2. Published annual accounts. (This is *not* meant to imply that I suspect any dishonesty. It's simply that I'd like to have a better idea of how the club functions.) 3. Elections. If the members don't like Horizon's policies, then they should have the option to vote in new committee members. If they support the policies then they should be able to express this support. That's all I want. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 10:46:05 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: The Cally POV Message-ID: <38E635DD.7F05@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Russ, please keep this up. I'm enjoying it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:07:38 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Neil's girls Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage Message-ID: <38E63AEA.209A@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Much as I hate to disappoint the pair of you, Ms Right in this pair of eyes > must be a fanatical atheist with rabid Marxist inclinations. Can a person be rabidly inclined? The words seem incongruous. Leave off the fanatacism, and I'll let you know if I become available. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:30:39 EST From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Offers of marriage Message-ID: <63.3ad39b6.2617c47f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: Much as I hate to disappoint the pair of you, Ms Right in this pair of eyes must be a fanatical atheist with rabid Marxist inclinations. Wearing greasy overalls and singing songs about the glories of tractor factories will not fool me. Just another case of opposites attracting then... Trish a firm believer in the supremacy of the individual over the group, apparently one of the many reason why I love the snarly one ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:14:59 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Carmen Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Just been to see Carmen and decided to recast it in B7 terms on the way home. Carmen has to be Servalan, there's simply no contest. The best candidate for Jose seemed to be Blake. He's the only one who can cast off all his principles and the girl who loves him (Jenna) to follow her. None of the others really have enough principles to betray. Besides, Blake has sufficient capacity for obsession to get completely fanatic about her. (I don't see Avon in this scenario - his relationship with Servalan is of a different nature. Mutual sex appeal - she wouldn't be faking the attraction as we can see the chemistry on screen) We were a bit stuck for the toreador - eventually picked Jarvik on the grounds that he was popular and had a high opinion of himself. It had to be someone on the Federation side, really. (Kathryn was holding out for Jarriere...) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:18:18 EST From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] REM lyrics Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison started the REM kick >I've been on a bit of a lyrics kick this week. REM lyrics work well in the >songs, but frankly look rubbish when you write them down. But have you ever >heard 'losing my religion'? Mr Stipe is perhaps a B7 fan (she wildly >speculated) and Nicola jumped in. How come no one suggested "Shiny Happy People?" Trish ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:16:19 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: "b7" Subject: Re: [B7L] forwarded posts Message-ID: <00db01bf9bc3$dcff2560$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: huh@ccm.net > I love the show but I >certainly have nothing extraordinary to say about it. Now, on some of my other >lists I have plenty to say. Be glad this isn't one of them. :) > >lisabeth On the contrary please chip in with whatever you have got to say. I'm sure that the list members who are deeper into fandom than me find my posts to be nothing out of the extraordinary, but they are polite enough to reply and share their thoughts with me on whatever was crossing my mind. By doing this, I have actually learnt some things, and pick up new aspects when I see the episodes again. So I'd just like to say thanks to everybody who has replied to my posts over the last six months, and encourage other lurkers to come out of the shadows more often. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:50:41 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] manners Message-ID: <00de01bf9bc3$dfb6f260$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I find it very distressing when a nice bloke like Peter, who hasn't even posted >anything during the current debate, gets abusive mail. > >Judith Hear hear. Andrew (my real name is Gnog) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:56:51 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: [B7L] An example to us all Message-ID: <00df01bf9bc3$e06f9400$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Helen Krummenacker I said.... >> 2) Avon was into something bigger. The bank fraud was part of something. >> That's why Bartholomew was "running" Avon. ....... But why does Anna use her real name in this scenario ? Helen Said >Also, I think this all makes sense, the theory that he wasn't just a >fraud. This is exactly the sort of thin Kai meant. Last night there was a reply to my post which stated that my idea, although interesting offered nothing to change their view of the B7 universe (which did not include my view). Tonight, there is a reply which indicates that my view fits into somebody else's view of the B7 universe. Completely different views. The example to us all (including me) is that they are expressed politely and with respect, and I am sure all three of us will enjoy discussing it further. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 10:45:36 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: [B7L] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BB7L=5D_Re:=5BB7L=5D=A0Delurking..._?= Message-ID: <00dd01bf9bc3$dedcbf00$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kai V Karmanheimo >I've been on this list >for about six months now and have made less than twenty posts during that >time, so I think that makes me an "occasional" poster. But such high quality posts. > A cliche I know, but the variety of >approaches and interpretations is what makes this such an interesting >forum. I can't say I have enthusiasm for all approaches, but then no one >has. Exactly, everybody has their own version of what happens off screen. There are as many "missing" episodes as there are fans. For example(don't kill me everybody) I used to scoff (privately) at fan-fic, but I can see why people write it now, and why people enjoy reading it. As people might have realised, my schedule allows mainly for short comments rather than occasional stimulating essays, so that all for now. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:17:58 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's skills and Blake knowing about them Message-ID: <00e101bf9bc3$e29978e0$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marian de Haan, >As I said before, I can't see Avon functioning in the military. The >discipline would be an insurmountable obstacle. :-) Can we imagine him >meekly saluting and saying "Yes, sir," or even "Beg humbly permission to >disagree, sir," to a superior giving him an order he considers stupid? > >He does have knowledge about military matters but he can have gained that >while working for them as a civilian. There is more to military service than being a squadie / space corp trooper. There are numerous admin functions, scientific units etc etc. And, when push comes to shove. Avon takes orders from Blake when Blake actually issues them. He may protest, but he carries them out. When you have an asset as skilful as Avon, you don't worry about the odd bit of insubordination, provided the job gets done. So, for Avon to function in the military, he just needs a commanding officer who understands him, and to not be on the front line. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 11:11:53 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: [B7L] Avon's skills Message-ID: <00e001bf9bc3$e11f0de0$875f01d5@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said >> 2) Avon was into something bigger. The bank fraud was part of something. >> That's why Bartholomew was "running" Avon. To get at the other people >> involved. Not involved in the bank fraud, but the "grand plan". But why does Anna use her real name in this scenario ? Helen replied >Hmmm... Avon's computer skills. If he checks up on her, he notices >origins of documents not right. Wrong dates of origin, etc. Let him look >up her real identification, just close off anything that would lead to >recognition of what she does. An interesting thought. Are Avon's computer skills really, and also acknowledged by the security forces to be, so good as to be able to detect false computer records. So much so that it is worth risking using Anna's real name. We know that the Federation is perfectly happy to lie about peoples backgrounds, alter records etc. So at first glance you might think that the proffessionals (the secret service side) would be able to do it seemlessly. But. Your post has reminded me, in the first episode, whilst they cover most of the bases in framing Blake, one or two traces are left behind that a junior defence attourney is able to uncover. That would be trivial for Avon. So perhaps thats it. Not only is the Federation mind control imperfect, but the forging of computer records as well. >Also, I think this all makes sense, the theory that he wasn't just a >fraud. He's sure she died rather than tell everything she knows about >him. Why? He was arrested and tried for the fraud. No, she knew >something else about him, he knew she couldn't have told because he >wasn't charged with (treason or whatever). > Good idea. I can't remember if we actually get this from the series, but if Avon is certain that Anna is dead (and not just because her brother said so), then that could indicate that it was more than a bank fraud. Because in Avon's mind, if he were in charge of the Federation, HE would have put together all of the charges possible in order to ensure a conviction. It may not occur to Avon that a charge of treason (etc) in itself would damage the Federation and so restricting the charge to Fraud, and hence deportation, is the best course of action. That is after all what they did with Blake. They could have executed him for being present at the meeting, but it was better to discredit him than risk fuelling any other rebellions. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 01:20:38 GMT From: "Andrew Michael Spencer" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Message-ID: <20000402012039.20582.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Andy Hopkinson wrote: >It has been said by several people on this list that if you don't >like >what >Horizon do, you should try doing something else yourself. >We are. >Alan and I will be publishing a B7 magazine of our own. It's an >experiment. >We >don't know if it will be a success so we're only trying one issue > >initially. >If >people like it, we'll do another. >It's not a fan club. It's not intended to replace Horizon. We'll be > >happy >to >sell copies through Horizon, Avon, Judith Proctor or anyone else who >is >interested. Sounds good, is there any more information about the magazine? What is it going to be called? How much will it cost? When will it be available? Will it be in colour? Is it going to be a mix of fiction/non-fiction or is it going to favour one over the other? Good luck to you both with the magazine. Andrew. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 03:00:47 +0100 From: "Diva" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] REM lyrics Message-ID: <008001bf9c47$5727cb20$039afea9@diva> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I've been on a bit of a lyrics kick this week. REM lyrics work well in the > >songs, but frankly look rubbish when you write them down. But have you ever > >heard 'losing my religion'? Mr Stipe is perhaps a B7 fan (she wildly > >speculated) "World Leader Pretend" for Avon thinking about his life? Diva@tn.prestel.co.uk "World Leader Pretend" I sit at my table and wage war on myself It seems like it's all...it's all for nothing I know the barricades, and I know the mortar in the wall breaks I recognize the weapons, I used them well This is my mistake. Let me make it good I raised the wall, and I will be the one to knock it down I've a rich understanding of my finest defenses I proclaim that claims are left unstated, I demand a rematch I decree a stalemate I divine my deeper motives I recognize the weapons I've practiced them well. I fitted them myself It's amazing what devices you can sympathize...empathize This is my mistake. Let me make it good I raised the walls, and I will be the one to knock it down Reach out for me and hold me tight. Hold that memory Let my machine talk to me. Let my machine talk to me This is my world And I am world leader pretend This is my life And this is my time I have been given the freedom To do as I see fit It's high time I've razed the walls That I've constructed It's amazing what devices you can sympathize...empathize This is my mistake. Let me make it good I raised the walls, and I will be the one to knock it down You fill in the mortar. You fill in the harmony You fill in the mortar. I raised the walls And I'm the only one I will be the one to knock it down ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:03:15 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon's skills Message-ID: <38E6C683.5CBAA29C@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew wrote: >Whilst planning the bank fraud, clearly encryption and security systems are >the sort of things that you would read up on. I think that covers it all. >Avon was a Lieutenant in the military research establishment who teamed up >with some other people to pull off a military coup, for which they needed >lots of money. Your reasoning was brilliant. You have obviously been studying Avon too long. Get a life :-) It is interesting to note that Anna Grant actually achieved this 'military coup' objective (well, almost). Perhaps she managed to get away with the lion's share of the embezzlement, and left Avon holding the bag. Perhaps that's why, rather than reprogram his brain, they shipped him off to a very nasty place. To make him tell where he hid the money. In truth, he can't tell, because he never did figure out who made away with it. In this scenario, it is ironic justice that Avon should teleport in and mess up all her military take over plans at Servalan's new palace. Pat P _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:40:39 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Outfits Message-ID: <38E6C137.2B3F0095@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trish wrote: >Keep us posted. Perhaps this is a new area of fan interest. Mattel could >make little Avon dolls and we could dress him up exactly as we want. Pat >could keep him in those flamboyant outfits, Dana as she desires, and the rest >could have a field day with leather, or not Well, maybe those would be >the life-size Avon dolls that Horizon won't sell either Oh, I want one. (You realize Paul Darrow would want a cut, of course.) If Barbie sized, we could cross dress him in her clothes. Ken's clothes are too dowdily sophmoric by far. Who would Avon's companion doll be? Soolin? Blake, for the slash fans? Well dang, Mattell will just have to manufacture the whole crew. Once I acquire the whole set, I can stop dressing up my stuffed bunnies (Avon, Tarrant, Vila, Gan) in black leather. Of course, the best bunny (Servalan) always wears white. ummmm Would the Avon doll be anatomically correct? Heading for the drawing board, PatPat _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:03:39 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: B7 Lysator Subject: [B7L] Penguins again Message-ID: <38E6C69B.2E97AF27@netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Una wrote re: Trish: >> No penguins here alas, but I do have 16+ years of Catholic school behind me. > Hey! Me too! All good Catholic girls fall for Neil, huh? It's because we cut our teeth on abuse. PatPat (is that why beautiful suffering is so popular here?) _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:40:57 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Anna Message-ID: <20000401.224059.-89627.0.rilliara@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warning, Ariana, spoilers ahead. On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:32:23 +4100 Helen Krummenacker writes: if you want someone to tell you your plans, you have > to > be intelligent enough to be worth talking to. Stupidity is actually > pretty difficult to consistently fake. In fact, one Sherlock Holmes > pastiche I wrote makes use of a clever person going a bit overboard > playing at being a silly girl. Further, Avon would not be attracted > to a > stupid woman; he would ignore her. So true. I'd been thinking partly of Avon falling for Peri's ruse and of Anna using that line about going back to her husband. That latter seemed a definite attempt at playing the helpless, pitiable type. I think it may be possible (then again, maybe not) that Anna played on that chivalric streak which now and then seems to surface in Avon. In that context, it's at least a serious question whether she'd played _dumb_ and helpless. I agree the #1 reason she didn't play dumb is because it wouldn't have worked. As for helpless, I'm not sure if that's what I think she tried. For one thing, Avon knew she had a brother she could go to for help. Besides, when she gives Avon that line, she's in a rush to defuse a dangerous situation. The ploy she uses might be reflex - something she'd use on any or most guys about to figure out to much and turn on her (for what it's worth, when trying to keep Servalan alive earlier, she played on her supposed history of 'silent / stoic suffering' and on a supposed horror of bloodshed, both characteristics in keeping with a weak image. Also, it's implied she acted differently with Chesku at the beginning of their relationship. The cutting remarks she makes and her obvious disdain may be the real Anna since this is one time she has no reason to pretend. OTOH, I'd say she really did care for Avon and had let him go - either by not interfering in his final escape or by holding back evidence that could have gotten him killed. What's slowly driving me nuts is trying to figure out how much of the real Anna he knew. Did he fall for an illusion or the real person? And _why_ did he fall for her? What attracted him and made her the love of his life? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:11:41 EST From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures Message-ID: <5a.344cf6d.26183e9d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right, I started the ball rolling, so I thought I'd keep it in play. (Pat, you're just encouraging me you know) Announcing the Blakes Seven Action Figures - molded plastic, moveable, fully functional, realistic, physically accurate models of the Blakes Seven characters you have come to know and love or loathe, whichever your preference. The Roj Blake Doll Swivel ball head that can be turned up, down, left or right, but has a tendency to prefer the left Great big bleeding heart A mind that can be wiped clean and rewritten as many times as you like. Accessories include oversized vests and tunic a la Robin Hood, and wellies The Jenna Stannis doll Perfect blonde hair that never needs to be set High heels Resistance wear for ladies can also be worn as formalwear The Kerr (I don't really ever use a first name) Avon doll Battery operated model comes with limitless supply of sarcasm, voice supplied by Paul Darrow (substitutes not even considered) Comes with black leather pants and interchangeable jackets Blowdryer and hairspray to achieve the later series look Red lobster suit Intermittant conscience optional Heart considered an additional purchase and is available in limited quantities The Slash Avon doll Studded black leather clothing and gauntlets Accessories sold separately. Must be 18 or older to purchase The Vila Restal doll Set of breaking and entering tools The worst costumes of the entire group, with the exception of notable Avon costumes Bottomless bottle of adrenaline and soma The Cally doll Hair can be cut drastically and grows back Ability to change from forceful figure to moralizing wimp. (You'll need to buy a new one if you want the forceful figure back) Easily possessed by alien creatures Comes with her own personal moon disc The Olag Gan doll Come with his own limiter Interchangeable with Paul Bunyan action figures The Del Tarrant doll A set of 64 oversized very white teeth rather than the normal 32 Personality optional The Dayna Mellanby doll Bow, arrow, spear, High heels, Lute that can be used as mood music Weapons and ordinance that can be hidden in skin tight clothing The Soolin doll Includes 24 piece set of guns Hair can be set in any style, limited only by your imagination The Servalan doll (can also be used for voodoo) Includes the Servalan couture line, as designed by Joan Collins Knifes for backstabbing Poison for use with friends The Travis I doll Black leather attire and eyepatch Simulated laser arm and gadget ring Optional conscience The Travis II doll Black leather attire and eyepatch Simulated laser arm and gadget ring Complete with his own set of windchimes Certificate from the William Shatner school of acting (I'll get hate mail for this one I know) The Anna Grant doll Just turn her head to see the multiple faces To see the original Anna Grant, it is necessary to purchase the optional rose colored glasses available as part of the Avon accessories. Can't wait to see what some of you add, Trish ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:48:18 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Andromedan Battle Hym and Commander's Lot Message-ID: <20000402064818.48149.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed many thanks, I loved both of these… Given the unique nature of the Andromedan ships, 'tis indeed a pity that they didn't have Tarrant and Soolin at the battle - with their hair-styling implements, Vila's lock-picking tools, bits and pieces from Cally's first aid kit, Avon's leather polishing kit (and a few studs thrown in for good measure)… How could they lose? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:48:57 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] forwarded posts Message-ID: <20000402064857.92120.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Lisabeth wrote: Eh? Come on, lisabeth, you *must* have noticed that that never stopped me… ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:50:10 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Horizon discussion Message-ID: <20000402065010.22881.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Julia wrote: - by taking the next spaceflight off. And if necessary, by taking it at gunpoint. Lesseee...oh, to be different, let's make it black.. Very tight leather trousers, of course, with knee-length boots (hijackers in thigh-boots is a little hard to swallow, though I don't mind trying) and a black silk shirt like the one in Aftermath - or maybe white. Or cream. Or... Yes, the way he goes all cold and distant and ruthless, and those gorgeous smiles when everything's against him, and...what's that? Rambling about Snarly? *Moi*? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:54:47 EST From: Prmolloy@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction Message-ID: <11.24a9e85.261848b7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One of Andrew's last posts got me thinking about fan fiction. One of the great joys of happening into B7 fandom was the discovery of fan fiction. I took it as a sign of validation as I'd been making up stories involving favorite TV characters since I was about 8. I regarded this habit as a sign of weakness, a relic from childhood, never to be admitted (unless in therapy). What a relief to find many, many adults engaging in this activity. IMHO, fan fiction fills a void for those of us who wish there were more than 52 B7 episodes or wish there were more episodes with a specific cast. It allows the authors and readers to insert adventures or stories within the series, continue the series, or even take it in different directions into alternate universes. It allows us to ignore those characters we dislike and explore in greater detail the characters that really interest us. It got me motivated enough to try my hand at it, and I've written a few, most of which are shit and will likely be salvaged at future date for the few passages that are good, but they were fun to write and fulfilled a creative need. The stuff I've read was mostly on the web. Some of it is excellent, and some of it is not. The excellent stuff has challenged me and I think my writing is getting better with work. I haven't acquired many zines yet, but I have a wish list pulled together from Judith Proctor's site. The fan fiction out there runs the gamut, but most seems to focus on the group dynamics or the dynamics between specific characters, not surprising since the dynamics were highly combustible on their good days. I very much enjoy that which stays true to the characters, which doesn't require rigidity, just consistency. I find it harder to enjoy that which makes Avon too nice, portrays Blake as less complex than he was, etc. I like the stuff that allows Cally and Jenna to emerge as strong individuals, and writing that allows one to wonder how much of Vila was an act. Taking into consideration something that Neil Faulkner wrote a few weeks ago (I still want to marry you Neil, even if I have to convert you to capitalism) I've been attempting to focus on story, rather than just focusing on character. It struck me how little there was in the admittedly limited stories I've read of anything traditionally acknowledged as science fiction/fantasy. Anyway, now that I'd shared with all of us and emerged from lurkdom, I thought I'd solicit some of your thoughts on what you love and what you hate in fan fiction. I'll start (being the shy little INTP/J that I am) · I like stories that focus on Avon/Blake conflict · I don't particularly like slash, but some of it is written so well that it is quite good · I like stories where the characters are faced with ethical dilemmas · I admit to liking the "beautiful suffering" stories, when well done · I like stories that attempt to fill in or explain things within the series (e.g. how Blake convinced Avon to stay and fight the Andromedeans) · I like Avon/Cally stories - I love Loulou Harris's "In the Labyrinth" which is certainly more than just an Avon/Cally story · I'd like to see more Travis stories particularly ones that don't end with "I'll get you someday, Blake!" · I'd like to see more stories with aliens where the aliens don't look like humans with body paint, or like amoebas. · I admit I only read stories that have Avon in them · I prefer stories set in the first two seasons What do you like/hate in B7 fan fiction? Trish My turn: yes it is my real name :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 00:30:50 +0100 From: Russ Massey To: Helen Krummenacker Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: The Cally POV Message-ID: In message <38E635DD.7F05@jps.net>, Helen Krummenacker writes >Russ, please keep this up. I'm enjoying it. > I hear this sort of thing so often I had to check the thread title to see what it referred to :) -- Russ Massey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 00:15:13 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's skills Message-ID: <38E70191.D2AA316C@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PatPat wrote: > It is interesting to note that Anna Grant actually achieved this > 'military coup' objective (well, almost). Perhaps she managed to get > away with the lion's share of the embezzlement, and left Avon holding > the bag. Ack! What a neat twist! I can see Anna doing this, if I could just square it with her dying declaration of love... Mistral -- "Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:20:52 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Blakes Seven Action Figures Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99FDDECF3@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Trish wrote: > > The Travis II doll > Black leather attire and eyepatch > Simulated laser arm and gadget ring > Complete with his own set of windchimes > Certificate from the William Shatner school of acting (I'll > get hate mail for this one I know) Since I happen to like William Shatner, (I like anyone who has the guts to tell a studio full of fans to get a life), you're getting away with this. Provided that you also supply me with a slash Vila doll to go with the Travis II one. There is no need for a slash Travis II doll, since the normal one already has all the necessities. Jacqueline Chief High Inquisitioner of the One True Church of Travis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 09:13:39 +-100 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction Message-ID: <01BF9C83.D3078F00@host62-6-103-214.btinternet.com> Trish asked what we all like in fiction. Basically, I think it's safe to say we all like well-written stories where the characters fit our own personal idea of the characters. I have read stories that the majority of fandom raves about as "classics" that I just found dull because these weren't _my_ characters. I've found stories that fit into the pattern of exactly what I like best about fanfic, that fail because they weren't as well-written as I would like. OTOH I've found stories that normally I wouldn't go for at all, but which are so well-written they can persuade you otherwise, temporarily. With the above provisos: 1)I like het stories, esp Avon/Soolin because that is the relationship I find most likely (I'm talking recreation here, not romance). 2)I like angst as long as it's believable and, most importantly, does not turn mushy! 3)I don't like slash, simply beacuse I don't find the relationships credible. (I read slash in another fandom where I do). 4)I like action sci-fi stuff with lots of plot aswell as my favourite characters (thanks, Neil!) 5)I will read stories from any season happily, but prefer those that give everybody something to do rather than conveniently dumping some of the crew on the first page. However, I do sympathise with this as I certainly couldn't write a whole crew story, there are some characters I just wouldn't attempt to write because I don't feel I could do them believably. 6) I have a particular fondness for PGPs, even though I wholeheartedly believe that everybody died :-) Louise -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #94 *************************************