From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #161 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/161 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 161 Today's Topics: [B7L] Paul Darrow & Gareth Thomas - other roles [B7L] Travis. Re: [B7L] B7L re Avon Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? [B7L] Soolin as a leader (was Fourth Season - why??) Re: [B7L] B7L re Avon Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? [B7L] more B7 songs [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks Re: [B7L] Travis. Re: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks Re: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks Re: [B7L] Travis. Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Re: [B7L] Travis. [B7L] Criminals Re: [B7L] Criminals Re: [B7L] Travis. Re: [B7L] Criminals Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Re: [B7L] Criminals Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Re: [B7L] Travis. Re: [B7L] Travis. [B7L] Travis. Re: [B7L] Travis. [B7L] Nicola`s big news [B7L] re: FW: new virus warning Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Re: [B7L] Travis. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:41:57 +1100 From: Pat Fenech To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: space-city@world.std.com Subject: [B7L] Paul Darrow & Gareth Thomas - other roles Message-Id: <199806090929.LAA24901@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone Short & to the point, I would appreciate it if anyone in Australia who has copies of any of the other work of the esteemed creators of Blake & Avon could get in touch - either at this address P.Fenech@library.usyd.edu.au or at home Fenech@onaustralia.com.au see I can be just not often Hope everyone is well Pat Fenech ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:09:38 +1000 From: Katrina Margaret Harkess To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Travis. Message-ID: <357CB582.E725D966@mail.usyd.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm just curious if there is anyone else out there who sees Travis as a fascinating, very dark character with the occasional white spot and enormous potential for writers? _Trial_ was one of my favourites - it offered such an insight into Travis's mind and into the Federation's workings. And the irony when it was Blake's attack which let him escape was wonderful. _Project Avalon_ displays a character with a downright devious mind and the ability to utilise disparate resources. Actually, he's aften shown to have a knack for finding a way to use what resources he has to best effect - from Cally in _S-L-D_ to Docholi in _Gambit_ and his schemes in _Voice from the Past_, _Hostage_ and _Keeper_ - to utilises things like Blake's conditioning, family ties [do we have any other examples of this in the series??] and the situation itself. Travis isn't a nice character - but he's a fascinating one. Does anyone agree or want to argue the point?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 07:52:23 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] B7L re Avon Message-ID: <19980609075223.61872@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 10:24:44PM +0930, Ophelia wrote: > << After three seasons of dashing around in an alien > spacecraft, being shot, beaten, tortured, blown up and attacked by > mystical cosmic superbeings, I guess the temptation was just too great.>> > > I think they learned from Servalan - you can > get away with murder if your eyelashes are > sufficiently thick. There's an actual story about Servalan's tailor in Refractions #5. Seriously. By Kate Orman, which mean that those of you who haunt her web page will have read it already. But it's a serious story, really. (And of course I liked it, I wouldn't have asked Kate for it otherwise...) -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:14:33 +0100 (BST) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I also think the episode says some rather nice things about gender > stereotypes. Piri/Cancer manages to incorporate two female stereotypes - > the pathetically wimpy and dependent twit, and the nasty, heartless, > man-destroying bitch. This would be quite offensive to the female viewer, > if it wasn't for the presence of Soolin, showing that women can actually be > intelligent, reliable, independent and sensible. And sympathetic as well. > I particularly appreciated how Soolin went out of her way to be nice to > Neebrox. I got the impression she thought that a nice old codger who'd had > a nasty time on a slave planet was more deserving of sympathy than a young, > selfish girlie who ought to have been able to look after herself. All good points -- and I think that, as the series progressed, Soolin revealed a personality that transcended gender politics. She wasn't just a strong, sensitive Nineties woman: she had some of the raw material of a true leader. Avon certainly had no control over her: while his bully-boy tactics intimidated and infuriated Tarrant, Soolin found them pricelessly amusing. Look at what happened aboard the Scorpio in Warlord. There was a clear battle for alpha status, which Soolin clearly won. After that had happened, do you think Avon would have dared to try doing to Soolin what he did to Tarrant in Terminal? When Tarrant tries to intercede and prevent Avon from destroying the Liberator, Avon makes his point with a loaded gun. Soolin would have killed him where he stood -- after Warlord, he knew it, and where Soolin was concerned, he knew his place. All this brings me to my main point about Soolin. By the end of the fourth season, she had revealed parts of her personality, but she was still very much an unknown quantity. I defy anyone to suggest that she was cold, in the light of the Christine Lacey's paragraph (at the top). More than this, Glynis Barber (sp?) had proved herself as an actor, and in a fifth season, I think she could have created a character as memorable as Blake. (I'm not in any way trained in acting or theatre, but for me it's the actor who creates a character and brings her to life -- a scriptwriter can give the actor that opportunity, or bugger things up for the actor -- but the actor is the one who breathes life into the part.) Cheers, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:31:31 +0100 (BST) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > And instead of organising, they run off > on one ill-fated scheme after another, and > spend most of their time bickering. There was a lot of that in Series Three as well. And in Series Two, where there was a marked degeneration which began very early on, accelerated with Gan's death and ended with the partial break-up of the crew. One thing about Season Four is Avon's degeneration, which seemed like an echo of what happened to Blake during Season Two. Cheers, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:05:44 +0930 From: "Ophelia" To: "Rob Clother" , "B7 mailing list" Subject: [B7L] Soolin as a leader (was Fourth Season - why??) Message-ID: <01bd93ab$80b86220$17a226cb@waltersmith> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right, I made it to bed but I'm up again . Rob wrote - well, lots of things that make me want to immediately offer him membership in the Temple of the Golden Gunfighting Goddess. The shapely sharpshooter has another defender! Let the trumpets ring out in jubilation! Let much macadamia & liqueur ice-cream be consumed in celebration! >All good points -- and I think that, as the series progressed, Soolin >revealed a personality that transcended gender politics. She wasn't just >a strong, sensitive Nineties woman: she had some of the raw material of a >true leader. *Right.* Teh only draw-back, I think, is Soolin's ruthless independence. Despite Dorian's predictions, she is the only character who explicitly refuses to take on being part of the group as an importnat part of her identity. (Avon resists, but I think Horizon and Breakdown demonstrate that he became subsumed into the group despite himself.) Soolin uses wit as a distancing tactic, just as Avon did, but she also keeps things on a mercenary basis, ruling out ever being "one of them." I think this might prevent her becoming a leader, as that would require a level of committment that would irk her. Before my breakdown, I was working on an extended story on this theme, in which Soolin's ambivalence - she wants to become part of the group, even to challenge Avon for leadership, but on the other hand she doesn't *want* to be one of them - and her resentment that she is in some ways merely a replacement for Cally leads her closer and closer to a full, disastrous betrayal of the group. It was sparked from watching "Sand," and speculating that her cruel remarks about Cally were exactly a response to that kind of conflict, and a chance to *prove* that she wasn't and would never be Cally, never truly one of them. Soolin is very honourable in her own way, so I hadn't decided whether or not she *would* go all the way - maybe I should go back to it and see what happens. A thought- a long time ago, someone said that they felt Avon was testing Soolin's potential as a successor/adviser in "Gold," and was disappointed when she didn't automatically understand about the drugging on the ship. I agree. However, Avon was being unfair. He was raised on Earth, and has known for a long time about the Federation's use of drugs to keep citizens non-aggressive. However, Soolin grew up on Gauda Prime, on which the Federation used *very* different tactics, and is outside the Federation when we meet her. There is no real reason to assume she'd ever run up against Earth-style pacification before - she's from the more war-torn outskirts. Avon certainly had no control over her: while his bully-boy >tactics intimidated and infuriated Tarrant, Soolin found them pricelessly >amusing. I have to say it - She is soooo cooooool! Sorry. As I have said before, Soolin is a lounger. One of a lounger's best wapons is the ability to be sardonically amused in situations in which a more simple person might get cross and give away the psychological advantage. Look at what happened aboard the Scorpio in Warlord. There was >a clear battle for alpha status, which Soolin clearly won. After that had >happened, do you think Avon would have dared to try doing to Soolin what >he did to Tarrant in Terminal? When Tarrant tries to intercede and >prevent Avon from destroying the Liberator, Avon makes his point with a >loaded gun. Soolin would have killed him where he stood -- after Warlord, >he knew it, and where Soolin was concerned, he knew his place. She'd made the point already in "Power" - maybe it was his "success" with Pella that meant he didn't learn his lesson properly. >All this brings me to my main point about Soolin. By the end of the >fourth season, she had revealed parts of her personality, but she was >still very much an unknown quantity. Yeah, she didn't get much of a chance. I defy anyone to suggest that she >was cold, in the light of the Christine Lacey's paragraph (at the top). I will. I agree with Pat's image of her as crackling ice. This doesn't mean that she's without emotion, only that her complexities are protected by the layer of ice - Soolin had to become hard and cold to gain strength from her terrible experiences. The emotions are there - they surface in things like her support of ZeeZee and her hatred of Piri - but they're delicately laced with frost. Remember, ice can burn too. Soolin's the consummate Ice Princess in more than looks. >More than this, Glynis Barber (sp?) had proved herself as an actor, and in >a fifth season, I think she could have created a character as memorable as >Blake. (I'm not in any way trained in acting or theatre, but for me it's >the actor who creates a character and brings her to life -- a scriptwriter >can give the actor that opportunity, or bugger things up for the actor -- >but the actor is the one who breathes life into the part.) She's certainly managed to create a character that's become firmly entrenched in my conscious and subconscious mind. All right, the pain killers are beginning to work, so I'm going back to bed. If anyone can spare me any prayers,positive energy or loving thoughts over the next few days, I'll appreciate them. Life, don't talk to me about life... Love & Hugs, Lindley, High Priestess of the Temple of Soolin ---- Mistress Ophelia Frump. ophelia@picknowl.com.au The Knockwurst 'Allo 'Allo Pages: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2511/allo.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:27:31 +0930 From: "Ophelia" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] B7L re Avon Message-ID: <01bd93ae$8c26fd80$17a226cb@waltersmith> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia wrote: >Power? What do you mean Power? That's a *wonderful* episode for those of >us who enjoy seeing Avon knocked unconscious, dragged around, slung over >some hulking great brute's shoulder... Is a prat, yes, looks a prat, no. > >The plot may be crap, but the visuals are stunning. OK, I accept the distinction... ---- Mistress Ophelia Frump. opheliaf@picknowl.com The Knockwurst 'Allo 'Allo Pages: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/2511/allo.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:18:01 +1000 From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season - why?? Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980609101801.006dbc24@rabbit> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:07 5/06/98 +0100, Rob Clother wrote: > >I read in that B7 book -- can't remember the name off the top of my head >-- about someone who said that, had they gone ahead with a fifth series, >they would have needed both a major rethink and an actor of GT's stature >to play along with PD and MK. From what I've seen of Soolin, I'm >beginning to think they may have had the latter right under their noses. Hmm... not really. Soolin may have found a glib way of doing the lines, but she hadn't found much depth in her character. Personally, I think a fifth series including Deva would have worked well. For a start, it makes available an initial plot involving reconciling the people who killed Blake with the nest of rebels Blake set up -- Avon and co. would initially be kept out of the centre of the rebellion, and without a ship to carry on their own rebellion. It would be interesting to see Avon's reaction. -------------------------------------------------------- The Loch Mess Monster (occasionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:12:15 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: [B7L] more B7 songs Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They've just been playing 'Common People' on the radio, which is probably my all-time favourite single. It's a good Vila song too, a good song for all deltas really. 'laugh along with the common people, when all along they're laughing at you' and of course you 'dance and drink and screw, because there's nothing else to do.' and most importantly 'She said I want to sleep with common people like you.. Well, what else could I do? I said I'll see what I can do.' A girl can dream can't she? Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:19:56 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They don't have to be alcoholic drinks after all. I'd see Avon as extremely strong coffee with nothing else in it, Dayna as Pepsi, and Tarrant as a tall glass of milk. Hmm.. Gan as cocoa, Cally as fizzy water But some remain resolutely alcoholic. Blake certainly remains a pint of Guinness (stout but wholesome) Jenna is whatever bored housewives drink in the afternoon Soolin is pure cold vodka and Vila.. well.. Something under-rated and delicious. Either cloudy wheat beer or a nice hot cup of tea. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:23:37 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Katrina Margaret Harkess wrote: > I'm just curious if there is anyone else out there who sees Travis as a > fascinating, very dark character with the occasional white spot and > enormous potential for writers? Well, there's me and Chris Boucher, so that makes three of us. > _Trial_ was one of my favourites - it offered such an insight into > Travis's mind and into the Federation's workings. And the irony when it > was Blake's attack which let him escape was wonderful. A wonderful episode: Una's survey caused me spasms of physical pain by forcing me to have only two top episodes, squeezing "Trial" out of the joint first place. It would be interesting to know what was in Boucher's mind when he wrote Travis's speech to the court. There are a number of events to which it could apply that were still fairly recent when the show first aired. > Travis isn't a nice character - but he's a fascinating one. Does anyone > agree or want to argue the point?? Oh I can't agree with this - he _is_ nice, really. Deep down. Travis doesn't have many good points, but he does have his own brand of personal integrity, loyal to his troops and the service. It's the events of "Trial" that send him off the deep end. Betrayed by Space Command, he has nothing left except his vendetta against Blake. Then, the last straw. At the end of "Gambit", Blake refuses to kill him as "that would be a mercy". Not even Travis's hatred is reciprocated. With this rejection, Travis is left entirely alone in the world. It's at this point that he becomes capable of destroying humanity, as he has no connection to it any more. I'd argue that Blake really screws up at the end of "Gambit". For the sake of toying with Travis he sets him on a course which will lead to the intergalactic war. In fairness, Blake can't be expected to have realised all the ramifications. Nevertheless, he should have let Jenna shoot the poor sod. It would have been a mercy. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:32:09 +0100 (BST) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > ... and Tarrant as a tall glass of milk. Big drink of water might be a bit more appropriate. -- Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: JuliaN To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] .. and more B7 drinks Message-ID: <19980609153446.4445.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Alison Page wrote: and Tarrant as a tall glass of milk. > I'd love to see him in a "Got Milk" ad! (for non-US types a series of magazine ads where celebrities are pictured with milk moustaches) Jay 100%Avon == ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I plan to live forever, or die trying." Vila Restal, B7 Sharpe's Seven: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/3612 The McGuigan Family Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/4518 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:29:46 -0700 (PDT) From: JuliaN To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-ID: <19980609152946.1927.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Katrina Margaret Harkess wrote: > > I'm just curious if there is anyone else out there who sees Travis as a > fascinating, very dark character with the occasional white spot and > enormous potential for writers? I think he's a wonderful character. My favourite after Avon. The black leather aside , I find him fascinating, both versions too, and although I do prefer Mark 1, Brian Croucher's version is growing on me. He is very dark, but I also find him very pitiable. And from Trial onward I feel very sorry for him. I'd be interested to see any stories that explore his early life, are there any good ones out there? > _Trial_ was one of my favourites - it offered such an insight into > Travis's mind and into the Federation's workings. And the irony when it > was Blake's attack which let him escape was wonderful. This is one of my favourites also, for exactly the same reasons. And the way he just sits during the trial, saying and doing nothing is perfect. - to utilises things like Blake's conditioning, family ties [do > we have any other examples of this in the series??] I'm not sure, I haven't seen most of those eps in quite a long time, but I also like how Servalan keeps yanking his chain. One can almost understand his actions in Star One and the situation > itself. > Travis isn't a nice character - but he's a fascinating one. I *always* find the dark "bad guys" more fascinating than the good guys. Except a certain dark good guy, that is Does anyone > agree or want to argue the point?? No argument here. Jay 100%Avon == ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I plan to live forever, or die trying." Vila Restal, B7 Sharpe's Seven: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/3612 The McGuigan Family Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/4518 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 02:18:40 +1000 (EST) From: werry@netspace.net.au (John Werry) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Message-Id: <199806091618.CAA17781@hurricane.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Iain Coleman spake >> >This line might work on Una, but she's weird. I'm afraid I find the >> >Dayna/Justin bit so irredeemably shit that even Jackie Pearce turning it >> >up to 11 in this one cannot save the episode. >> >> It works a bit better if you try and imagine Dayna as Cally. This is one >> of the episodes where it is horribly, horribly obvious that they had >> started writing scripts with the assumption that Cally would still be >> present, and didn't always have time to rewrite properly. > >It's also one of those episodes where it's horribly, horribly obvious that >Jan Chappell was a far better actor than Josette Simon. The scripting in >those scenes is bad enough, but the non-performances from Simon and the >guest star whose name has mercifully erased itself from my mind are so >brain-buggeringly awful that I cannot watch them without attempting severe >self-mutilation in a desperate existential cry for aid from an uncaring >cosmos. > >> >> And at least if it had been Cally, Justin wouldn't be so obviously >> guilty of the crime Blake was framed with... > >If it had been first season Cally, maybe she would have just shot the >tosser and put him and the audience out of their misery. Ummm - I've never been able to take animals seriously - lets face it ... when the romantic lead looks like the father (Jeff Tracey) from the Thunderbirds enuf is enuf. Love the eyebrows - but how does he walk thru doors and when is he going to call for "Brains?" (and what would lady Pen say about the Dayna tryst ... or has the chuffer stolen the moment?). My own 2 cents worth re series 4 (S4) - It is my least favorite because the inconsistencies become greater and the episodes become much more linear with a more clearly defined start, body and resolution (+ or -). Up till S4 - this aspect was not so heavy and some senarios were really 1.5 - 2 episodes (cf Ensor's son/ORAC, or the Sarcophacus/Rumours pair) while in S4 they were more discrete one episode units. In S4 ... the characters are also tending to work in the one direction whereas there were multiple directions and emphases in 1-3 (I guess I'm saying that character differences were minimised in favor of plot) . OK there were great eps (Orbit) but there was also a resigned air about much of the series ... Vila certainly had less redeming features than previously and Slayer/Servilan is more melencholy than threatening (cf SAND). In S1-3 there was a tendency to have alternate federation and alien/human interest (straight SF) episodes (eg. Sarcophacus/Rumours etc). The only examples of this in S4 were Power and to a lesser extent Stardrive and Headhunter - but IMO - these were not different enough from the federation stories. I also have a suspicion that S4 also suffered from the lack of a federation headkicker/bastard as in Travis (IMO - he wasn't needed in S3 as this was about the regrouping of the clan). The federation became rather flat in S4... it was an often portrayed as a vague threat (eg Gold) or an ominous and lazy threat (eg Warlord). It didn't have the diversity of earlier series. Although it looks like I'm bucketing series 4 - I feel it still is far better than most TV sf produced in the last 20 Years - just S1-3 were more satisfying. Regards: John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:23:02 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, JuliaN wrote: > ---Katrina Margaret Harkess wrote: > > > > Travis isn't a nice character - but he's a fascinating one. > > I *always* find the dark "bad guys" more fascinating than the good > guys. Except a certain dark good guy, that is I take it you mean Blake? Iain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:50:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Criminals Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I've been having an interesting conversation off-list and I think some of the points are worth bringing back here. The series managed to include characters like Egrorian and Pindar and also hit grit with Blake's original conviction for child molesting. Gareth once told me that the charge of child molesting against Blake was the reason that the series wasn't shown in the US for many years after it was screened in the UK. Does anyone know if that's true? Export markets are possibly another reason (apart from censorship at home) why characters like Egrorian were never explitly stated to be gay. It's interesting to note that the series completely ignored that charge of child molesting and yet realistically it should have come back to haunt Blake. Child molesters in jail are frequent targets of attacks by other inmates. Did the other prisoners on the London all believe Blake to have been framed? Was his charisma such that he managed to convince them of his innocence or were they all in holding cells at the time of his trial and unaware of what he was suposed to have done? IN fact the same level of acceptance applies to all the crew. Their pasts never prove a hindrance. When the young surgeon in 'Breakdown' recognises Jenna, he's delighted. I guess smugglers had glamour as they often have had historically. In many ways, I can understand resistance leaders not baulking at working with a fraudster, a murderer, a thief a smuggler and an alien. They probably had some of the same in their own ranks. A convicted child-molester though? Alta Morag chose well when she picked a crime to destroy Blake with. Can you imagine the reaction if a leading political figure today was accused of that? I don't think he'd ever recover. How did Blake survive? When he says 'I'm Roj Blake, you may have heard of me', why does nobody say 'You bastard'? Not only does the series ignore this issue, but fanfic does too. I'd be hard put to think of three stories that pick up on it. You can see why of course. It's not a topic that many people would want to put into a story. Any yet, if the series was never going to mention the topic again, why introduce it in the first place? I think it was a bold move to accuse Blake of something so controversial. Or would it simply have become a dull repetative topic (much as forever failing to find Blake might have been if the third series had gone that way) with Blake having to try and prove his innocence over and over again to every person he met? I think 'Voice From the Past' is the only episode that mentions Blake's trial at all and even then, I wouldn't swear that it mentions what he was accused of, only that the trial was faked. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:45:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Morgaine To: Judith Proctor cc: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > It's interesting to note that the series completely ignored that charge of child > molesting and yet realistically it should have come back to haunt Blake. Child > molesters in jail are frequent targets of attacks by other inmates. Did the > other prisoners on the London all believe Blake to have been framed? Was his > charisma such that he managed to convince them of his innocence or were they all > in holding cells at the time of his trial and unaware of what he was suposed to > have done? Perhaps since he was such a well known political figure they were able to look past that charge, if in fact they even knew about it. Since these prisoners were of criminal mindset they may have been sceptical of any charges brought on by the Federation false or otherwise. Also after the prisoners were on the London, they were quite drugged so Blake being a "child molester" probably was the furthest from their minds. (Living their lives out on Cygnus Alpha was probably their maion concern) just my -.02 cents worth...... ~Morgaine~ -"Regret is a part of life." --Kerr Avon ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: JuliaN To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-ID: <19980609165306.9125.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Iain Coleman wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, JuliaN wrote: > > > > I *always* find the dark "bad guys" more fascinating than the good > > guys. Except a certain dark good guy, that is > > I take it you mean Blake? > Avon actually. I like my heroes to have a dark side as well as the bad guys. Blake, has a dark side, but he's too much an idealist for my taste. Jay 100%Avon == ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I plan to live forever, or die trying." Vila Restal, B7 Sharpe's Seven: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/3612 The McGuigan Family Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/4518 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 20:13:56 +0100 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals Message-ID: <897421030.1021768.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith said - > In many ways, I can understand resistance leaders not baulking at working with a > fraudster, a murderer, a thief a smuggler and an alien. They probably had some > of the same in their own ranks. A convicted child-molester though? Alta Morag > chose well when she picked a crime to destroy Blake with. Can you imagine the > reaction if a leading political figure today was accused of that? I don't think > he'd ever recover. I agree - everyone must have known it was a frame or Blake would have had no credibility at all. I note that Daniel Ortega (leader of the Sandinistas) is currently under suspicion for child abuse. And, indeed, it is destroying him politically, and quite right too. I liked him before. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:54:56 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Message-ID: <19980610075456.09562@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, Jun 08, 1998 at 07:28:25PM +0100, Julia Jones wrote: > In message , Iain > Coleman writes > > > >Not quite spelt out? I thought it was declared in mile-high neon letters > >with an accompanying brass band and firework display. > > > They didn't quite script it as "What a pity Pinder had that little > accident, I don't feel like shagging him any more, but I quite fancy > that bit of stuff you've brought with you." Even if it was blatently > obvious that that was the general idea. It was technically possible for > the BBC to deny that that was what they had intended, it's just the > National Viewers and Listeners Association collective dirty mind. But of course it's their dirty mind! When I watched it, I was Young and Innocent, and such a subtext did not have the shadow of a chance of crossing my mind. Now that I'm old, and I'm associating with you folk, of course there's no chance of such things *not* being pointed out - repeatedly. But that doesn't mean that they *have* to be there. What *was* obvious in blazing neon was that Egrorian was coming on to Servalan; any other come-ons were faint candle-light compared to that. Kathryn Andersen A.S.K.S. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:14:52 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Criminals Message-ID: <19980610081452.63469@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Jun 09, 1998 at 08:50:18AM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote: > The series managed to include characters like Egrorian and Pindar and > also hit grit with Blake's original conviction for child molesting. > It's interesting to note that the series completely ignored that > charge of child molesting and yet realistically it should have come > back to haunt Blake. Child molesters in jail are frequent targets of > attacks by other inmates. Did the other prisoners on the London all > believe Blake to have been framed? Was his charisma such that he > managed to convince them of his innocence or were they all in holding > cells at the time of his trial and unaware of what he was suposed to > have done? > Not only does the series ignore this issue, but fanfic does too. I'd > be hard put to think of three stories that pick up on it. You can see > why of course. It's not a topic that many people would want to put > into a story. I can think of one story that dealt with this excellently: "Fragments of Yesterday" by Ana Dorfstad in the Enarrare Blake's 7 Special (also known as the big black zine). It doesn't actually deal with the general knowledge of Blake's crime, but the effect on one of the children who had had their memories tampered with. Blake, after all, was not the only victim of that frame-up; he was the target, but those three children were the *victims*. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:24:57 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Message-ID: In message <199806091618.CAA17781@hurricane.netspace.net.au>, John Werry writes >Slayer/Servilan is more melencholy than threatening (cf SAND). That's an interesting misspelling of Sleer - Freudian slip? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:15:56 +1000 From: Bill Billingsley To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980610091556.006f2584@rabbit> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:09 9/06/98 +1000, Katrina wrote: >I'm just curious if there is anyone else out there who sees Travis as a >fascinating, very dark character with the occasional white spot and >enormous potential for writers? >_Trial_ was one of my favourites - it offered such an insight into >Travis's mind and into the Federation's workings. And the irony when it >was Blake's attack which let him escape was wonderful. >_Project Avalon_ displays a character with a downright devious mind and >the ability to utilise disparate resources. >Actually, he's aften shown to have a knack for finding a way to use what >resources he has to best effect - from Cally in _S-L-D_ to Docholi in >_Gambit_ and his schemes in _Voice from the Past_, _Hostage_ and >_Keeper_ - to utilises things like Blake's conditioning, family ties [do >we have any other examples of this in the series??] and the situation >itself. >Travis isn't a nice character - but he's a fascinating one. Does anyone >agree or want to argue the point?? > Also, in Deliverance and Orac, note Travis's reaction to Servalan killing the doctor that saved his life. Not quite the dark and devious Travis we expect. In some ways, it seems as though a plot-line was started but never carried through, with Travis becoming disenchanted with Servalan and leaving the Federation on his own, rather than escaping after Trial. Even with the change of actors, Travis's character certainly 'clams down' between his introduction as a psychotic commander who wipes out civillian populations, to the more docile, in-the-background Travis of Weapon, Pressure Point, etc. To be honest, selling out to the aliens seemed a bit out of character by the end. -------------------------------------------------------- The Loch Mess Monster (occasionally mistaken as Bill Billingsley) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:30:29 +1000 From: "Katrina Harkess" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-Id: <199806092336.JAA01154@extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---JuliaN wrote: > > I'd be interested to see any stories that explore his early life, are > there any good ones out there? I've written a [very] short story that is in the Aquitar Files. [http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~rmb/Blakes7/] Titled _Confession_ if you want to go have a look at it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 20:25:10 EDT From: StefiAB@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Travis. Message-ID: <6a8dd0b8.357dd267@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Lain wrote: > > I *always* find the dark "bad guys" more fascinating than the good > > guys. Except a certain dark good guy, that is > I take it you mean Blake? Very funny..... ;-) Stefanie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:30:21 -0700 (PDT) From: JuliaN To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-ID: <19980610013021.7340.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Katrina Harkess wrote: > > ---JuliaN wrote: > > > > I'd be interested to see any stories that explore his early life, are > > there any good ones out there? > > I've written a [very] short story that is in the Aquitar Files. > [http://www-astro.physics.ox.ac.uk/~rmb/Blakes7/] > Titled _Confession_ if you want to go have a look at it. > Thanks, will do. Jay 100%Avon > == ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I collect perfect teeth from dead Frogs, when I get home to England, I intend to have a full set made." Capt. Fredrickson (Sharpe's Siege) Sharpe's Seven: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/3612 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:05:52 +0100 From: Jackie To: space-city@world.std.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, b7spin@metva.com.au Subject: [B7L] Nicola`s big news Message-ID: <357E2240.3047@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicola Collie wrote: > > One thing that's true of kiwis (the birds) is that they're flightless. > P'raps because of this, one characteristic of Kiwis (the humans) is an urge > to do the big OE*. Anyway, for this Kiwi the time is coming when I'll say > goodbye to the South Pacific for a couple of years, and explore another > pond on the other side of the world. I'm delighted and excited to announce > that, come November this year, I'll be making my nest in Leeds. > > Citizens of the UK - consider yourself warned ;-) > ttfn, Nicola > > *overseas experience - a traditional rite of passage for young antipodeans. > We`ll have a big national celebration then. How does the 5th of November sound? Lots of bonfires, tons of fireworks, all covered on national TV! Welcome to the Centre of the Universe. Jackie. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:06:22 +0100 From: Jackie To: space-city@world.std.com CC: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] re: FW: new virus warning Message-ID: <357E225E.37E3@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ogredude wrote: > > **SIGH** > > When will people ever learn that VIRII CANNOT BE TRANSMITTED THRU > EMAIL!!! They can be in a binary attachment, but there is NO email > program that automatically runs these, and there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for > a virus to be embedded into an email message! > > --Ogre May I, as a novice of all things technical about the internet, give thanks to Ogre, in explaining this bit. Now I know that virii are not transmittable thru emails, I have no worries that in future I may pick up a virus in this way. I now know that I needn`t send warning messages to certain friends (as well as the all clear when told they are bogus). Thanx Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 00:04:09 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fourth Season Message-ID: In message <19980610075456.09562@welkin.apana.org.au>, Kathryn Andersen writes > >But of course it's their dirty mind! When I watched it, I was Young >and Innocent, and such a subtext did not have the shadow of a chance >of crossing my mind. When I first watched it, I was Young (15) and... well, sufficiently Innocent that such a subtext would not have sprung to my mind unless it was really there. No, I'm not being facetious. I really don't think I would have noticed it unless I was *supposed* to. I can remember thinking something along the lines of "Did I just see what I thought I saw? No, can't be, it's the BBC." -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:37:57 +0100 (BST) From: Rob Clother To: B7 mailing list Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis. Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Avon actually. I like my heroes to have a dark side as well as the > bad guys. Blake, has a dark side, but he's too much an idealist for > my taste. My favourite glimpse of Blake's dark side was in Breakdown. Instead of threatening to kill Kayn, he promises to destroy his hands if he fails to save Gan. That's the thing about being sensitive. If you're sensitive, you can detect people's vulnerabilities, and you don't have to choose to avoid them. Avon couldn't have done anything as heartless as that, which is why he gave Blake a look of genuine admiration just afterwards. :-) -- Rob -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #161 **************************************