From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #18 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/18 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 18 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma [B7L] Re: Beards and the silly season RE: [B7L] Get into the pay per call industry for FREE [B7L] scripts [B7L] Sevenfold Crown [B7L] Re: Blake's charisma Re: [B7L] Tyce's presence and so on Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels [B7L] New Here with a question. Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma [B7L] t-shirt slogans Re: [B7L] Slash debate/OT Steven Donaldson RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Re: [B7L] South Park Liberator (pt. 2) [B7L] South Park Liberator Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Re[2]: [B7L] t-shirt slogans [B7L] Re: Sevenfold Crown (and Beards) [B7L] Tyce Re: [B7L] Slash debate Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:20:25 -0800 From: Ovina Maria Feldman To: B7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <34C2E299.6AF608C9@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: > And yet most of the authors on the NYT best seller list are men. Just > like most of the great writers and painters of history. HIS STORY? > > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more > focused and more motivated. But in social situations (and fandom has > often been called "a sandbox in which everyone can play together" women > invest more time and energy, without expecting any measurable gain or > glory. This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men have controlled the social and economics factors that allow them to earn , get or control wealth or capital or whatever term you may want to apply. They have controlled the publishing world. There have been any number of accomplished female writers and painters, etc. throughout history; but you do have to look for them a little because it has been men who have been getting the history books published. It has also been men who passed laws that specifically banned women from owning property, from receiving an education, from being involved in governance, from doing just about anything that wasn't decorative or involved with providing men with babies! I realize this isn't the proper forum for this kind of rant, but some kinds of miopia just have to be addressed. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:10:20 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Sun 18 Jan, Dangermouse wrote: > Yet another argument for why it should have been PGP... ('cos by then maybe > they would) No, I'd have hated a PGP. A PGP claiming to be canonial would fix too many things that I prefer left unfixed. My motives are purely selfish. If they had done a PGP without Blake, they would have continued in like vein if they ever do another one. If they stick to within the series, there's a chance that they'll do a first or second season episode. Bring Back Blake! > > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > Hmm. This sounds like it might be a fun place for a honeymoon... You are a man of amazing sagacity. Find me at Deliverance or the Neutral Zone and I shall sell you two memberships with my own tender hands. You know it's a nice hotel, you've stayed there before. Judith PS. If you have a pair of suspenders, than you may claim to be a man of infinite resource and sagacity. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:52:37 -0800 From: Luxueil To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980118195237.007f5410@mail.halcyon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:55 PM 1/18/98 -0800, Buck, Courtney wrote: >>Judith wrote: >>The way that we judge charisma is inevitably affected by the reactions >>of others and if the rest of the crew are seen as largely unaffected, >>then the impact on us will be correspondingly reduced. >If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic effect of Avon? > The rest of the crew are generally unaffected by, and disagreeing with, Avon; >yet *his* charisma shines through as brilliant as a dozen exploding Novas. The fact that the crew are generally unaffected by Avon indicates, to me, that he lacks whatever you are calling charisma. *Fans* find Avon fascinating, but I don't remember that anyone in the series does (except Meegat). Those who are persuaded by him, are usually persuaded by his threats. Not because he's an irrisistable guy. For the Feds to have done what they did to Blake, multiple times, indicates that he was a threat to them at one time, in his ability to motivate people to action contrary to Fed goals, and in the memory of him in those times. Blake as we know him isn't interested in swaying masses, leading rabble, or ruling Earth - he simply wants to destroy the Federation. Nicole (damn, this work avoidance behaviour has got to stop - Fingers, stop typing! Modem, stop downloading! Eyes, stop reading! Mind, stop thinking about B7! Get to work!) ------------------------------------------------------------ Three candles shine from a noble heart: Justice with mercy, truth with compassion, excellence with humility. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:02:29 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Re: Beards and the silly season Message-ID: <199801190603_MC2-2FD0-6B54@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Our hairy friend Alex said: >Well, at least I know what to buy myself on my 30th birthday >(coming up in a few months!): a hair electrolysis kit. Alex, I never knew you cared! Our bearded friend Ian said: > I've done a fair bit of acting, and it's made it >difficult for me to watch plays/TV/movies, >because I get distracted from the show by > thinking "hmm, that was a nice reaction" or > "ooh, what a horrible line reading". Most irritating. I know, like trying to read a story when you're continually correcting the punctuation and grammar. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:25:57 +0000 From: Richard Watts To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] Get into the pay per call industry for FREE Message-Id: [ Oops - sorry Tom & Louise: I hit the wrong button and accidentally sent this to you directly, rather than to the list :-(. Come back, UNSEND, all is forgiven ... ] On Sun 18 January 1998, Louise Rutter wrote: >Kathryn Andersen asked: >>Calle! Isn't there some way for the List software to block all SPAM? > >Oh yes, indeed there is - only accept posts from people who are subscribed. >Unfortunately, this makes life really annoying for people whose posting >addresses are not the same as the address they recieve the list on. The other way of doing it is to have 'post-only' subscriptions. [snip] >I don't think the problem is very bad at the moment - 2 bits of spam in the >last year or so? It could very easily get worse very quickly, of course. It will. Most of the lists I'm subscribed to have started getting one or two bits of spam a week, if not more (gnu-win32, ssleay-users). RISKS has been getting vast amounts of spam for some time now. Even a fairly coarse access-control mechanism (rrw1000@*.cam.ac.uk, for example) should block 99% of spam - most of it seems to come either from its own domain, or from places like AOL or CompuServe where people aren't likely to be using more than a small, fixed number of userids. Calle ? Have the majordomo people cottoned on to this yet ? [snip] >number and going ex-directory. Also, like double-glazing salesmen's lists - >once you're on one, you tend to somehow migrate to the others'. Time will >tell... Indeed. However, it does have useful properties - just kill all mail with iemmc.com (or whatever it is) in the headers :-). This used to work quite well, but the spammers have recently caught on to it, and my last batch get past this filter. Sadly, even killing on *.com doesn't seem to work these days :-(, Richard. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:35:15 +1100 From: Fran Myers To: B7 Subject: [B7L] scripts Message-ID: <34C34883.2125@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit many years ago, the Beeb published facsimiles of working scripts for B7. These are badly duplicated, misspelt, with recording dates, etc - all the original errors. I have a copy each of "Death Watch" and "Orac" which I want to get rid of. Anyone interested? They'd be Aus$30 each (what I paid for them) plus postage. Fran M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 13:27:00 PST From: "Taylor, Steve [MIS]" To: blakes7 Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: <34C3C553@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Spoiler Space Well - I listened to it; fell asleep for about 5 minutes in the middle <:-<; was not that impressed. Still, it was better than nothing after all these years. I agree with most of the comments I have seen so far about the inconsistencies and anomalies. I didn't really like the way Servalan's voice has changed (not her fault of course) but the others, particularly Avon and Tarrant, were still very similar. The new women did very well to get into the characters. I don't think it works as well as a radio play - although it was easier if I shut my eyes (hence the snooze). Did you notice the 'it looks like an abandoned quarry' comment? - no change there then. No doubt the Avon fan club were/will be drooling over the concept of two Avons! I can see several possibilities for the slash fans and faulty teleporters as well (VBG) but that for the other list. Anyway - I taped it on VHS stereo tape so I can listen to it without turning the tape over and also get a better recording! Thanks a gain for those who reminded me when it was on. SteveT Cloning plant - or faulty teleport - what's the difference? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:34:28 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's charisma Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 18 Jan Luxueil wrote: Courtney wrote: >>If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic >>effect of Avon? > >The fact that the crew are generally unaffected by Avon indicates, to me, >that he lacks whatever you are calling charisma. *Fans* find Avon >fascinating, but I don't remember that anyone in the series does (except >Meegat). Those who are persuaded by him, are usually persuaded by his >threats. Not because he's an irrisistable guy. Yeah! That's the distinction I was trying to point out between what happens in the series v. fan reaction to the actors. And it's good to see you posting again, Nicole. And Lisa Williams wrote, in response to the sadly misguided Courtney: >Here again, I'll have to disagree -- I never saw Avon as having charisma. >Sex appeal, perhaps, at least to some (he's not my type, so I can't >really say), but not charisma. I like him, but I certainly wouldn't be >inclined to follow him based purely on his personality. I don't see him >as having the sort of almost hypnotic appeal that can sway the masses. Well said (well, typed 8-), Lisa. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu Http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:34:09 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Tyce's presence and so on Message-ID: <19980119.062932.15719.0.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> Russ wrote: > >And Tyce...well, I liked her as a character, but not really as a person. >I didn't think she was particularly beautiful, but she was sassy and >full of spirit, if not spite. I detested that leer she tossed to Blake >at the end of the program. Nothing like a woman who hasn't seen a real >man in who know's how long. > That's a foul slur on the masculinity of Federation troopers everywhere! > Tyce was the only woman on a planet with at least a section of 9 troopers (who >were probably rotated every three standard months) for 7 years. Are you >saying that not one of these 252 individuals was a real man? >There's always one who polishes his dark visor to a sensuous sheen, or another >whose overalls bag *just* that little bit less - small signals, but significant, surely. Well, Russ, my dear, Tyce seemed to me a staunch supporter of freedom, AND her father. Would she take up with an enemy? >>>>>OH! I hear the fan fic writers scurring to their story boards..... Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:58:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Malcolm Mladenovic To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: <199801191358.NAA00342@mort.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I haven't heard the radio play or read the script, but 'Bring me up' > seems to me to be suspiciously close to a Star Trek -ism: Isn't ST > content with having corrupted Dr. Who? Blake and Avon, at least, both use the phrase in the TV version several times, though not as often as I thought they did before I checked. As for the play, I quite liked it, though I think the average R4 Saturday afternoon play listener may have been hopelessly confused! -Malcolm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 15:25:00 PST From: "Taylor, Steve [MIS]" To: blakes7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: <34C3E118@courier.lmu.ac.uk> Malcolm said >As for the play, I quite liked it, though I think the average R4 Saturday >afternoon play listener may have been hopelessly confused! I have to agree with this. I cannot see that it was possible to follow what was going on without a Blake's 7 background. There was very little scene setting. SteveT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:28:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote: > his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after > his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed > gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder. Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor after reading that line? "Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon, certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:05:45 -0600 From: Fewox@webtv.net (Joel Rollins) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-Id: <199801191705.JAA28018@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Have been a fan of B7 for quite a while but have only perhaps most of the first season and a few bits here and there from other seasons.....I wasn't aware how the series ended until I checked out a page with the plots and scripts and I read the script for "Blake". My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. I imagine that quite a few defend the episode on that basis. Its is unusual and perhaps more realistic than many shows because heros don't always win and endings aren't always happy. However I have think the wholesale slaughter of the entire crew was kind of poor. Again I'm new to discussing this show.....around here...in Texas....it seems that even fewer people know of Blake's 7 than know of Doctor Who and that makes the number of people to converse with small indeed. So please be patient with me if I'm rehashing often walked ground. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:01:22 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain wrote: > Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor > after reading that line? You're definitely not alone! Although with me it was nearly choking on an Aero bar (healthy creature me). > "Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon, > certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake. Sid James I reckon, for sure. Ovina wrote: >I haven't heard the radio play or read the script, but 'Bring me up' >seems to me to be suspiciously close to a Star Trek -ism: Isn't ST >content with having corrupted Dr. Who? Forgive me for being thick, but I am an ardent Who fan, I can't think of occasions when Trek corrupted Who (I can think of far too many occasions when Trek ripped off Who tho' Cybermen/Borg, anyone?) Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:54:43 -0000 From: Duncan To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: <0B010792B465D1118B2A00A0C949B91C27ED@ENTERPRISE> Content-Type: text/plain > Oh No!!! Please tell me I did'nt miss it????? > > Anyway, hello to everyone here. I lurked around on this list about 3 > years ago, but now I have a more permanent address I thought i'd > re-subscribe! Are there any plans by the BBC to release this on > tape?? > > Cheers, > Duncan Murray > duncan@orioneng.co.uk (Apologies if this is posted twice - Mail Server Disaster!) > -----Original Message----- > From: Taylor, Steve [MIS] [SMTP:S.Taylor@lmu.ac.uk] > Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 11:25 PM > To: blakes7 > Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown > > Steve said that > Malcolm said > > >As for the play, I quite liked it, though I think the average R4 > Saturday > >afternoon play listener may have been hopelessly confused! > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:02:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Mon 19 Jan, Buck, Courtney wrote: > >Judith wrote: > >The way that we judge charisma is inevitably affected by the reactions > >of others and if the rest of the crew are seen as largely unaffected, > >then the impact on us will be correspondingly reduced. > > If this is true, how do you explain the overwhelming charismatic effect of Avon? > The rest of the crew are generally unaffected by, and disagreeing with, Avon; > yet *his* charisma shines through as brilliant as a dozen exploding Novas. It's like Lisa said. Avon doesn't have charisma, he has sex appeal. I lust after Avon (One of the good bits in the Sevenfold Crown is a bit near the end where we get a sense of Avon's loneliness). What Blake has is a passionate conviction that compels belief. I don't lust after Blake, but he might have been able to convince me to follow him. Wasn't it Vila who said of Avon "His idea of diplomacy is to knock a lame man over and then offer him a stick" (I've not got the words exactly right, but that's the general gist) > For the record, I like Blake. Season 2 is my favorite. The show really did > lose a lot when it, unfortunately, lost the Avon/Blake, Avon-Blake interaction. > *I* just don't see Blake as charismatic as the show implies he MUST have been. > > This applies only to Blake, however, not to Gareth Thomas...who I adore. Me too . I'll take Gareth over Blake any day. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:51:57 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Mon 19 Jan, penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote: > Julia Jones wrote: > > >Perhaps we can test this theory at Deliverence by presenting Paul with a > >shirt. > > OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our > greying friends? Dunno about greying. I think Gareth's past that stage (Ironic when he's actually younger than Paul!) Paul - 'the sexiest voice in the universe' Gareth - 'I'm not fat. I'm cuddly.' Jackie - 'If you've got it - flaunt it' David Jackson - 'Gan, but not forgotten' Judith PS. I notice Sally Knyvette is now on the guest list for Deliverance which completes the first season crew. Whopee! PPS. I'm taking orders for overseas zines for Deliverance. I've got several requests already, but if there are zines that I agent that you particularly want, please let me know as soon as possible so that I can ship them over in good time. Titles include: Gambit, Bizzaro, Southern Seven, Probability Square, Southern Comfort etc. and there will be even more added to the list in a couple of weeks time. I'm also happy to take pre-orders for my own zines. It makes it easier for me to know what to bring, and it means you won't miss out on a title you particularly want if I sell out quickly. I can only bring a small amount of stuff upto the Neutral Zone (long rail journey changing in London), so if anyone wants zines there, I would really appreciate knowing which ones in advance. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:00:53 -0000 From: "Jenni O" To: "Louise Rutter" , "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate/OT Steven Donaldson Message-Id: <199801191904.UAA23729@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Louise Rutter > To: 'B7 Lysator' > Subject: RE: [B7L] Slash debate > Date: 17 January 1998 17:46 > > Pat Patera listed a few greats: > >I tend to find this true in commercial fiction as well. Men tend to > >write more exciting action plots, but I seldom care whether the > >characters survive or not. Women tend to write characters I care about, > >but the excitement often isn't there. A few great writers can handle > >both: JRR Tolkien (Lord of the Rings, Barbara Hambly (most all her > >fantasy books), Mary Stuart (the Merlin Trilogy). > > I'm intrigued. Would people like Steven Donaldson fit the bill. OK, his > most charactersome books are actually fantasy (the Mordant series and the > Thomas Coventant bitrilogy), but the latest "Gap" series is SF (though > nicked from fantasy). IMO, Steven Donaldson writes very single dimensional characters. It's not that he doesn't take them through the wringer, it's just that I don't really care whether they come out the other side or not. I also find that he has a fairly small selection of personalities to choose from (what is the real difference between Nick Succorso and Angus Thermopile?) and they seem fairly simillar in many ways to Thomas Covenant himself. It's not that I don't like his books - I've got everything he's written, and have read them several times - It's just that they don't live and breath to me. (Saltheart Foamfollower is the only exception - maybe he was based on someone SD knew?) Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:42:24 +0000 From: Richard Watts To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: On Sun 18 January 1998, Louise Rutter wrote: >A bit of spoiler space first - I remembered just in time that some people >can't get Radio 4 (e.g. non-Brits). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I thought it was rather good (though I've only heard it once so far). Certainly a hell of a lot better than Power or Animals (or Hostage or Orac or ...). >Judith wailed: >>Was I imagining it when the king didn't use the powers of the crown to >>prevent it from being stolen from him, when Servalan didn't use the power >of >>her stone to neutralise a gun and when Avon didn't use the power of the >>crown to get his own way when his crew threatened to use weapons against >>him? > >No, you weren't. And of course there is the usual problem with telekinesis >- if you can do anything useful at all, like stop the hammer of a gun going >down (or whatever Scorpio guns have), then you can block the carotid >arteries and easily knock someone out or kill them. You might need to block >the ones round the spine as well, but only for a kill. Oh, mumble mumble morphogenic field mumble teleport mumble. Actually, I think this fits in quite well with the link between teleportation and telekinesis. I note that you'd only need to be able to move something a couple of um to kill a scorpio gun (they're electronically fired). Now, if someone had had a pistol... [snip] >>And as for Servalan forgetting to remove Tarrant's teleport bracelet - >words >>fail me. I think we can excuse that as sheer greed, thoughtlessness, and the off-chance of Avon walking up behind her with a gun at any moment. > >Am I right in thinking that nowhere in the series did anyone ever forget to >do this (except when they wouldn't know what a bracelet was)? I don't >recall them ever saying "Phew - lucky Servalan forgot to take our bracelets >off." So if the series didn't even stoop that low... True (AFAICT), but we have had worse examples of stupidity - can we say Hostage, boys and girls ? > >>I've got to listen again to be sure whether I actually heard Servalan >order >>'Bring me up' in a context that implied a teleport. I hope I imagined it. >>The Federation don't have the teleport. > >You didn't imagine it - I heard it too and thought "ooh - is this a cunning >plot where our heroes have to destroy the Federation's new transporter >technology? Has Servalan managed to capture Scorpio?" Er... no. I rather interpreted that (at least at the beginning) as being Servalan being able to influence Avon's dreams, but not to fully control them, so she could force him to dream about being tortured, but perhaps not control in what way he was being tortured. > >>Ah well, there were some good bits, and the acting at least was upto >>scratch. The cast did a remarkably good job with the script and it was >good >>to hear them again. Orac was in top form, Avon was mean and Vila was >>nervous. Agreed :-)... [snip] >her name). It's not Paula Wilcox's fault what her voice sounds like, of >course, but that image of late-middle-aged housewifeliness just doesn't say >"Soolin" to me. Dodgy casting. .. and agreed. > >The plot was a load of tosh, though. In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-). >Take one outrageously implausible and >daft Holy Grail, add in a smattering of irritating plot device complication >with the power crystals and the malfunctioning teleporter, which then leads >to a completely gratuitous plot device with two Avons, and as soon as that >happens you can see exactly where it's leading - we have to get rid of one >of them, but we can't have Avon just shoot his twin or anything - both >Avons have to win in the end! Erm, why ? Avon shooting his twin, thus allowing Servalan to `win' was exactly what I was expecting. The ending was terrible, I agree, but unfortunately, Avon#2 was the only expendable character - they should probably've taken the diadem-guardy-person along to grab the crown whilst Servalan was watching the Avons try to kill each other: I think easing her control over the Avons to allow them to kill each other would've played to her sense of making her plans more and more complicated until her enemies escape... [snip] >Another really annoying quibble, made doubly annoying by how easy it would >have been to fix, was that all the wrong sound effects were used. True... [snip] >Oh well, maybe they'll do better next time. I _was_ pleased by the amount >of coverage it got, though - nice to know the media still think it's worth >a mention, even if it is twenty years old and this is just a one-off radio >play. Indeed. Then again, B7's a very personal show in a way that no-one else seems to have been able to match: you get the feeling that you could actually talk to the characters down the pub and find them believable, as opposed to DS9 or B5: I can't really visualise Sheridan going into a pub and not trying to defeat the evil forces of the brewery, drive the bikers out of the table in the corner, and ordering the pool table to break and attack... Richard. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:49:13 EST From: ShilLance To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-ID: <2619e590.34c3ae3b@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-19 12:23:51 EST, you write: << Have been a fan of B7 for quite a while but have only perhaps most of the first season and a few bits here and there from other seasons.....I wasn't aware how the series ended until I checked out a page with the plots and scripts and I read the script for "Blake". My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. I imagine that quite a few defend the episode on that basis. Its is unusual and perhaps more realistic than many shows because heros don't always win and endings aren't always happy. However I have think the wholesale slaughter of the entire crew was kind of poor. Again I'm new to discussing this show.....around here...in Texas....it seems that even fewer people know of Blake's 7 than know of Doctor Who and that makes the number of people to converse with small indeed. So please be patient with me if I'm rehashing often walked ground. >> Can't speak for the general attitude of fans, but I always felt it needed at least two parts to be effective. Maybe its the American in me, but it would have been more effective seeing the crew fall one at a time over a period of time, whether than all together at once. It would have been nice to see more interaction between Blake and the Scorpio crew as well. Perhaps them joining him and Avon wrongly being suspicious and then committing the act. I don't know, it just seemed a bit rushed. Anyone else feel the same? Gwynn Shamlin (Shil) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:22:27 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] South Park Liberator (pt. 2) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Julia Jones wrote: > > Come on, doesn't ANYBODY on this list watch South Park? > No. What is it, I've never heard of it? It's a twisted cartoon that airs on Comedy Central cable network at 10 p.m. Wednesday (Eastern) and a couple of other times a week. The main characters are 4 boys having various offensive adventures in South Park, Colorado. Episodes, music videos (they did some Christmas song videos as commercials) and the 5 minute short that started it all, the wicked "Spirit of Xmas," can be downloaded in their entirety in several formats on many sites around the web. The one I used this morning to watch the first episode is South Park Headquarters: http://eccentrica.org/cheesegod. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html "Hell, yeah, I want some Cheesy Poofs!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:56:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] South Park Liberator Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Disposition: inline Umm...she said, revealing her utter ignorance, what is "South Park"? Patti ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:38:49 +1000 From: Gina Sartore To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Judith wrote: > >David Jackson - 'Gan, but not forgotten' > *choke* thanks Judith, I'll have one of those, please. gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:18:44 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-ID: In message <199801191705.JAA28018@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>, Joel Rollins writes >Have been a fan of B7 for quite a while but have only perhaps most of >the first season and a few bits here and there from other seasons.....I >wasn't aware how the series ended until I checked out a page with the >plots and scripts and I read the script for "Blake". > >My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about >that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but >on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets >neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. You really need to have seen a bit more of the second season, and a couple of third season episodes, particularly _Terminal_, and then *see* _Blake_, not just read the script, before you get the full impact of what's going on. A lot of it's in the non-verbal stuff that isn't written in the script. The sheer tragic irony is stunning. Puts the opera back into "space opera". > I imagine that quite >a few defend the episode on that basis. Its is unusual and perhaps more >realistic than many shows because heros don't always win and endings >aren't always happy. However I have think the wholesale slaughter of >the entire crew was kind of poor. Only one of the crew is definitely dead, and that's because the actor wanted the character killed off, very messily, on screen. No "it was a dream", no chance of him surviving. The script editor, Chris Boucher, said that he deliberately set it up so that if the BBC had commissioned a fifth series, any of the actors who wanted to go on could survive the shoot-out, any who didn't would be dead. And if the Beeb didn't want a fifth series - well, nobody who saw that episode was *ever* going to forget it. He was right - we haven't. Most list members who've commented say they have very clear memories of the first time they saw it, no matter how often they've seen it since. > >Again I'm new to discussing this show.....around here...in Texas....it >seems that even fewer people know of Blake's 7 than know of Doctor Who >and that makes the number of people to converse with small indeed. So >please be patient with me if I'm rehashing often walked ground. > Welcome, pull up a chair and sit down, we can always do with a new point of view. In case you hadn't heard, there are plans afoot to re-release the entire series on video, so if there's a US release you won't need to depend on your local PBS station being nice to you. We can advise on which episodes to skip if you're feeling low on money :-) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:06:37 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-ID: In message , Iain Coleman writes > > >On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote: > >> his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after >> his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed >> gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder. > >Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor >after reading that line? I don't believe it - I didn't see it when I read that post the first time round, and I have been accused on numerous occasions of having a sick and filthy mind. > >"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon, >certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake. > Nonono - Sid James is Vila. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:21:08 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's Charisma Message-ID: In message , Judith Proctor writes > >Me too . I'll take Gareth over Blake any day. > Would you care to re-phrase that? (Yes, I know I have a filthy mind...) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:28:52 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Message-ID: In message , Judith Proctor writes >On Mon 19 Jan, penny_kjelgaard@juno.com wrote: >> Julia Jones wrote: >> >> >Perhaps we can test this theory at Deliverence by presenting Paul with a >> >shirt. >> >> OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our >> greying friends? > >Dunno about greying. I think Gareth's past that stage (Ironic when >he's actually younger than Paul!) The unfortunate Whovian who was sharing a room with me at Who's 7 (and knew far more about B7 at the end of the weekend than at the beginning :-) ) was rather surprised to learn that Gareth was the younger of the pair. Mind you, she thought he was adorable, and she'd barely heard of B7 before the con. > >Paul - 'the sexiest voice in the universe' :-)) Definitely. It just keeps getting better. > >Gareth - 'I'm not fat. I'm cuddly.' And Judith is willing to prove it :-) > >Jackie - 'If you've got it - flaunt it' Appropriate for both actress and character :-) I'm really looking forward to seeing her at a con. > >David Jackson - 'Gan, but not forgotten' That is sick, sick, sick :-) > -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:53:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re[2]: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Disposition: inline How about this shirt for Paul: Front: The Sevenfold Crown Rear: Not Bad For a First Draft patti ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:43:59 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Re: Sevenfold Crown (and Beards) Message-ID: <199801192144_MC2-2FE7-8E25@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom answered Judith: >>I've got to listen again to be sure whether >>I actually heard Servalan order 'Bring me >>up' in a context that implied a teleport. I >>hope I imagined it. The Federation don't >>have the teleport. > >You didn't imagine it - I heard it too and thought "ooh - >is this a cunning plot where our heroes have to >destroy the Federation's new transporter technology? >Has Servalan managed to capture Scorpio?" Er... no. To be fair, wasn't that bit in Avon's dream? He went on: >Er... and the incidental music. The first two bars of >the theme tune are repeated for bars five and six, >but bars three and four are not! (it's AABBAACC, >not AABBAABB as played) This is getting mildly amusing - I come to the Sevenfold Crown's Defence twice in one post after giving the play such a comprehensive slagging off in Another Place. As you may have read there, one of the few new things I liked was that short martial variation on the theme tune. Or do I mean the only thing I liked. Iain asked: >I don't know whether to buy this or not, so I want to >get it into perspective by comparing it to the worst >B7 stuff I've spent money on for the sake of completeness. >Is "Sevenfold Crown" better or worse than "Stardrive/Animals"? Stardrive has got Vila's nifty faking-drunk scene. That's one redeeming moment. Can't immediately remember one in Sevenfold Crown. And yes, you do need Stardrive/Animals for the sake of completeness. There is no chance this will become accepted as canon, so that argument doesn't apply. If you're coming to Deliverance and can wait that long, I could lend you my tape. Oh yes, the tape does have some short cast interviews at the end, which I'm about to play to Ellie and Robert. And maybe we ought to be encouraging the BBC to do more... if they can find a decent script. Iain also wrote: >I'm a bit scared to ask where goatees >come in this hierarchy of repulsiveness. Ah. You didn't say it was a goatee. Hm. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:44:05 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" Subject: [B7L] Tyce Message-ID: <199801192144_MC2-2FE7-8E29@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sue Clerc said: >Patti, for what it's worth, everyone I know interprets >the set up the same way--we're supposed to think, >or at least consider the possibility, that Tyce and >Sarkoff are lovers until she addresses him as > "father" near the end. Oh. I think I was boring, and thought "well, she's probably his daughter". Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:15:52 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <34C416E8.47C7@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ovina Maria Feldman wrote: > re: > Pat Patera wrote: > > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more > > focused and more motivated... > > This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men > have controlled the social and economics factors ... refer to top statement. Ann Landers said: "No one can be taken advantage of without their permission." yeah yeah, now you're going to say "But what about Margaret Thatcher?" Never mind the occassional abberation. If women were aggressive / assertive enough, no one would keep them down. Perhaps surival of the species requires women to acquiese. To focus on family and tribal cohesiveness. I don't like this fact; I should prefer that women had honor and glory and power equal to or greater than that of men - but thousands of years of civilization support the opposite truth. And surely anyone in the workplace today sees it all the time. Women who have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby comes along. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:56:02 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-ID: <34C42052.5974@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ShilLance wrote: > ... it would > have been more effective seeing the crew fall one at a time over a period of > time, whether than all together at once. Perhaps it was Dorians lingering gestalt that ordained they should fall as one. > It would have been nice to see more > interaction between Blake and the Scorpio crew as well. That's what PGP stories are for. > I don't know, it just seemed a bit rushed. I expect it was supposed to feel rushed at the end. Not only a nice counterpoint to all that slow, cautious creeping about thru the dark, still forest, but also the reason for rash action. When rushed, one hasn't time to think, analyze, discard discordant information, and weigh appropriate response. When rushed, one reacts. What I wonder is: did the producers have any inkling of what they were about to set off by the final act of martyrdom? (i.e. a Fandom still going strong after 20 years) In earlier eps, it's pointed out that the Federation wanted Blake shipped off - alive - to a prison planet rather than executed and made "a martyr" of because they knew what sort of a following a martyr tends to inspire (i.e. Fen flagellating themselves with hurt / comfort stories). Pat P -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #18 *************************************