From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #186 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/186 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 186 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Re: Flag waving Re: [B7L] Blake (was Flag waving) Re: [B7L] Jackie Pierce/Dr. Who [B7L] Jackie Pierce/Dr. Who [B7L] A query or two Re: [B7L] A query or two Re: [B7L] A query or two [B7L] Drugging to Control Behaviour [B7L] B7 Flag Waving Re: [B7L] A query or two [B7L] US spelling [B7L] Happy endings Re: [B7L] Happy endings Re: [B7L] Drugging to Control Behaviour Re: [B7L] US spelling Re: [B7L] Drugging to Control Behaviour Re: [B7L] A query or two ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 08:38:18 -0400 From: Susan Beth To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Flag waving Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980707083818.006917cc@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (and apologies to Taina for the duplicate -- I keep forgetting.) Taina Nieminen wrote: And never mind how many health problems people cause >for themselves, my understanding of the American system is that if a >person is injured in an accident, or something, and they don't have >health insurance, hospitals won't treat them. If I'm wrong, please tell >me so. I would very much like to be wrong about that. It undoubtedly varies from state to state, but I'd be very surprised if that "let them die on the sidewalks" attitude was the rule anywhere. What we have, instead, is a sloppy and inefficient mishmash of methods: There are clinics (funded usually at the state level) that offer care on a sliding scale of charges, everything from free to near-market level. Hospitals will offer at least emergency/stabilizing care to anyone who arrives (there have been a few scandals about hospitals that refused -- judging from the outcry that resulted, these were rare events) before sending them along to hospitals that are designated and receive subsidies to give free care to those who can't pay and don't have insurance. In Massachusetts, this Free Care Pool if funded by surcharges added to the costs of those who DO have insurance, plus funds voted from general tax revenues. Most doctors feel a social obligation to provide at least some charitable care -- either they accept a certain percentage of poor patients at reduced fees/free, or they volunteer for XX hours a month at the above mentioned clinics, or they donate money from their own practice to help support clinics. The bottom line is, "emergency" type health care is just about always available. What is missing is the normal, ongoing care of chronic conditions or preventative treatment that would actually save money in the long run. A "working class" man might find it very hard to come up with the money to see a doctor and get the drugs etc. to stabilize his diabetes -- but once he needs to have a leg amputated....THAT will be covered. The system is stupid rather than utterly cold-hearted. Susan Beth (sbs@world.std.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:33:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Clerc To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake (was Flag waving) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 AChevron@aol.com wrote: > << BLAKE: That's possible! They butchered my family, my friends. They > murdered my past and gave me tranquilized dreams. >> [Argh! I snipped too much!] > So, was the Resistance lying? Were they desperate enough to fabricate the > story in order to get back their figurehead? The alternative explanation is > that Blake's family met with an accidental death, or were later executed for > "crimes" committed after transport. Any comments? D. Rose The Federation often does things that make no sense. 8-) But here are 3 possibilities to cover the circumstances: 1. There are factions within the government and it also looks like the President is somewhat anxious about political embarrassment in front of other people (governors? other planetary systems like Teal and Vandor?), so it's important to present a front of humane treatment of prisoners and dissidents and kill them off stage. Some people within the Fed, like rebels, know what really happens. Opposing governments might as well but not be able to prove it. 2. His family was killed and Blake knew it before the mindwipe, that's why the Federation gave him the forged tapes to suppress the memory. Being off the drugged food and water, meeting Foster again, and seeing the massacre overcame the conditioning and he remembered everything the Federation had tried to make him forget. 3. Foster is lying and Blake's siblings are still alive somewhere. Blake believes him because he knows it's something the Federation might do, maybe rumors circulate about such things to keep people in line. Sort of like the way rumors about dumping prisoners in space have got around the London. Sue, returning to lurkerhood sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:34:14 -0500 From: "Reuben Herfindahl" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Jackie Pierce/Dr. Who Message-ID: <000b01bda9d5$d8164bf0$660114ac@misnt> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="openmail-part-0ee0b963-00000001"; charset="iso-8859-1" It was late, I was sleepy, but I swore that I saw Jackie Pierce in several Dr. Who episodes with Colin Baker. **************************************************************************** **** You were quite right. Jackie was in The Two Doctors with both Colin Baker and Pat Troughton. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:05:53 -0600 From: CHERYL_MARKS@HP-LakeStevens-om2.om.hp.com TO: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Jackie Pierce/Dr. Who Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="openmail-part-0ee0b963-00000001" --openmail-part-0ee0b963-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="BDY.TXT" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BDY.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was late, I was sleepy, but I swore that I saw Jackie Pierce in several Dr. Who episodes with Colin Baker. ******************************************************************************** * * Cheryl Marks Email: cherylm@lsid.hp.com * Telnet: 1-335-2193 Phone: (425) 335-2193 Fax: (425) 335-2828 * Address: Hewlett-Packard, MS 90, 8600 Soper Hill Road, * Everett, WA 98205-1298 * "Some days you're the dog; some days you're the hydrant." -- Unknown ******************************************************************************** ** I am currently testing a new e-mail client called Outlook. If present, please disregard the "winmail.dat" attachment.____________________________________________________ --openmail-part-0ee0b963-00000001-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:33:24 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] A query or two Message-ID: <19980707223325.13577.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Hello again. I'm presently working as an indexer and, amongst the previously indexed topics of an index I'm adding material to (example: unsightly erections and other "there goes the neighbourhood" cases), I came across the topic Defamation - defences - constitutional right, freedom of speech. This made me wonder. It's more than possible that this has been discussed before (I may not have been paying due care and attention), but what sort of constitution do you think the Federation has? If it has one at all, of course. It could be that the Federation grew out of a declaration of martial law that was never revoked, a situation that suited both civil and military authorities. Thoughts, anyone? Something far more frivolous that's been bugging me for months: ever since I managed to obtain a copy of Carroll's "The Hunting of the Snark", I've been convinced that Servalan would make a very good Boojum. Especially in her disguise as Sleer. The only ones who know what a Boojum looks like have vanished, which sounds like her to me. Anyone agree? Violently disagree? Have any other characters to add to the list? Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:33:10 -0500 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A query or two Message-Id: <199807072326.SAA18763@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joanne MacQueen wrote: >ever since I managed to obtain a copy of Carroll's "The Hunting of the >Snark", I've been convinced that Servalan would make a very good Boojum. I think I am eminently qualified to answer this one. I have a cat named Servalan and a cat named Boojum. They bear absolutely no resemblance to each other and don't even like each other much, so I would have to say that the answer is no, Servalan would *not* make a good Boojum, or vice versa. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@ti.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 21:29:33 EDT From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A query or two Message-ID: <90cb4f4e.35a2cb7e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My own feeling about the Federation is that there is probably some constitution, but one that is similar to that of my home state, Virginia, which is in essense a code of laws, subject to change by each year's General Assembly sessions. I do not get the impression that the concept of 'human rights' as we know them today are even given the token lip service the former Soviet Union gave them in their own constitution. I also believe that the Federation evolved out of an actual Terran Empire, which was responcible for the early spread of mankind to the stars. Possibly the Federation was a response to the inevitable corruption that set into the Empire, and the whole Alpha/Delta system was a remedy for injustices that had set in. Of course, the Federation then proceeded to evolve into something as bad, or more probably worse, than that of the Empire. Didn't mean to rant on so. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:53:30 +1000 From: Taina Nieminen To: B7 List Subject: [B7L] Drugging to Control Behaviour Message-ID: <35A2D11A.A3A915AF@netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently read a newspaper report about pheromones. The main gist of the article was the similarity between male pig pheromones and male human pheromones (explaining why boars are more aggressive towards men than women), but it also mentioned an experiment in which spectators at a soccer game were sprayed with pheromone blockers as they entered the stadium. Apparently, violence at that match dropped by two-thirds. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, because it has been filtered through the media, but it did get me thinking about the issue of controlling people's behaviour using drugs. I posted a couple of days ago to say that "drugging and dulling" people takes away their fundamental freedom to be theirselves, and I stand by that. However, there may be certain circumstances in which it is acceptable to use chemical means to influence behaviour. The Federation, though, went way past any acceptable use. Here are my thoughts: Control of Crowd Violence As in the pheromone example above. This influences a person's reaction to the presence of others around them, but isn't a mind-altering drug and doesn't affect their thoughts or the sense of self. It affects the biological mechanism by which humans (especially male ones) react aggressively to the presence of aggressive males around them, apparently reducing violence. So it does influence behaviour, emotions and, to a lesser extent, thoughts, insofar as they spring from emotions. I see this as acceptable in situations such as reducing violence at sporting events, because there are conflicting rights: the right of people to behave as they wish (which has restrictions) and the right of people not to be subjected to violence. Also, the event is a small part of people's lives, and people can choose to attend or not. Extrapolating to a government like the Federation using it to control political protest, it cannot be used to stop individual protest, or a mass demonstration taking place. It could, however, be used to reduce the incidence of violence during that demonstration. This would mean that the police could break up the protest more easily, but I don't think that would have mattered much to the Federation. They would much rather use a drug that stopped people wanting to protest, and if people did protest, they had no qualms about using extreme violence to squash it. Psychiatric Medication I don't think this is an issue for the Federation. Psychiatric medication has very little (I hesitate to say none) effect on people without a psychiatric disorder, apart from side effects. There is a current issue, which will no doubt continue to exist in the future - involuntary medication. I think there is a place for involuntary treatment against a person's wishes, because a person with a mental illness is not always capable of making an informed decision, but it does have to be used judiciously. Before anyone jumps on me for saying that, let me say that I have been taking SSRI antidepressants (the Prozac group) since 1996. I wish very much, if wishes are worth anything, that the psychiatrist I was seeing in the early 1990s had insisted that I try medication in spite of my strong objections. It would have given me an extra five years of more-or-less normal life. Tranquilizers/"Happy Pills" Here we come to the class of drugs that the Federation seems to have been using. Something that stopped people from noticing, or if they noticed, caring about the situation they were in. Some examples from our world: Valium: valium can make it easier to cope with a difficult situation, but has a problem in that people build up tolerance to it. Also, it doesn't stop a person from seeking alternatives to the situation that they are in. Cocaine: the Spanish in South America at one time used the native population as slave labourers. The labourers suffered under terrible conditions, and the Spanish were able to get so much work out of them because the labourers used cocaine from chewing coca leaves. The cocaine made them able to endure fatigue and hunger, and also acted as a mind-altering drug, so that they didn't care so much about their situation. To force this on people under any circumstances is reprehensible. But here's a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend story. A fruit picker somewhere in the southern parts of Australia was able to pick twice as much as anyone else, because he used cannabis to let him pick from dawn till dusk. I'm not sure there was any point to it apart from him being stoned all day long, because he only broke even after using his extra income to buy cannabis. The point is that some people choose to do this to themselves. There's also the history of drug-controlled slave labour in Haiti - the zombies. I can't see the development of a drug that could influence people's thoughts specifically enough to make them accept the Federation's control and atrocities. That's more the role of propaganda and restriction of information. They could have developed a drug which kept people's minds in a fog, as in the zombie example, but they would get very little useful work out of those people. Another possibility is a drug which reduced people's motivation, so that even if they believed something was wrong, they would not do anything about it. Again, this would have problems in work productivity, because it would dramatically reduce people's work ethic and initiative, but it could be workable. Judith wrote that Blake as an engineer, and Avon as a computer expert, might have been left undrugged, and such a system would make this use of drugs even more workable. There's also the possibility of developing a drug which controlled neurotransmitter levels so that people were always happy. No matter what the Federation did, they would be happy about it. They would also be happy when people they cared about died, when relationships broke up, when they didn't get the job they wanted, and so on. The Federation would probably have quite good worker productivity, although I think a lot of creative work (including R&D) would go down the tube. This, to me, is the worst of these three scenarios, although all three are bad. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on these issues. Taina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:38:59 -0400 From: "cmhg" To: Subject: [B7L] B7 Flag Waving Message-ID: <00d001bdaa21$f39df520$2152fad0@default> In reply to the following comment: >And never mind how many health problems people cause for themselves, my understanding of the American system is that if a person is injured in an accident, or something, and they don't have health insurance, hospitals won't treat them. If I'm wrong, please tell me so. I would very much like to be wrong about that> Yes, you are wrong - fortunately:). As a critical care nurse here in America I can assure you that the injured or sick are very well taken care of, regardless of their ability to pay. Many of the ICU beds are occupied by people of all ages who have no insurance or other means to pay their medical costs, and there is very little difference in the care and treatment they receive. The "little difference" I speak of is generally found when there is a need to look at scarce resources such as a liver transplant or bone marrow transplant - in these cases even those with excellent health insurance are not guaranteed treatment because there are only so many resources to go around. The issue of the allocation of limited resources in the medical field is not particular to the USA but to all countries. The USA is, of course, not without its problems relating to health care, but one of the major factors in ensuring that hospitals and doctors treat the sick and injured, is the ability of the individual to sue the hospital and/or doctors if adequate and appropriate treatment is not forthcoming (grin). Suffice it to say, it is generally much cheaper for a hospital to pay for the medical care of the non insured, than it is to pay the malpractice or negligence costs that would arise if treatment was ignored. I believe it was stated on another post that medical costs are so high in the USA for the reason that the insured are supplementing the costs incurred by the hospitals that are not recovered from the non insured or non payer. Being involved in the nursing field and as a patient on both sides of the Atlantic (England and America), I would much prefer to take my chances with the American health system - even without insurance - than to be placed on the "waiting" list in England (that's if you even can get on the "list"). This weekend I took care of 2 patients who were 79 years old and recovering from elective bypass surgery - both of whom were covered by the regular social security medical insurance provided by the US to retired citizens. How many other countries out there are providing bypass surgery to the 70s - 90s population on a routine basis? As you can see, the American medical system is not so bad as people are lead to believe. With regard to B7 - how do you think health care was handled in their Universe? Sorry for rambling, but I feel I have to at least put in a good word or two in favor of a not so bad health care system! hg cmhg@msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:32:36 -0500 From: "Raymond C. Kaplan" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] A query or two Message-ID: <002701bdaa29$992a9e10$781a7e82@dogbert> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am new on this list. I just found this list recently. It has been a few years since I have seen any of the episodes, unfortuneatly. -----Original Message----- From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [B7L] A query or two : My own feeling about the Federation is that there is probably some :constitution, but :one that is similar to that of my home state, Virginia, :which is in essense a code of laws, :subject to change by each year's :General Assembly sessions. I do not get the :impression that the concept of :'human rights' as we know them today are even given the :token lip service :the former Soviet Union gave them in their own constitution. I would have to assume it had a consitiution since like any goverment today, they would try to claim popular legitimacy and it would aid them in it. I would think that the Federation's consitiution would be very similar to that of the Soviet Union, lots of articles and clauses designed to cover everything. They probably would give token lip service to human rights in their consititution, but it would be so complicated that it would probably be meaningless. I would guess that it would cover local and regional government to a certain extent as well, making it hard for someone like Gov. Le Grand to cause any real change within the system. However, there would probably be clauses that allow the President/military to get away with anything it wanted. ________________________________________________ Ray Kaplan CS Major University of Illinois rckaplan@acm.org Chair of SigVR at ACM@UIUC http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~rckaplan O- ________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 00:30:44 +0100 From: "amanda" To: Subject: [B7L] US spelling Message-ID: <01bda9ff$433d7e20$LocalHost@james-robertson> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAA07.A501E620" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAA07.A501E620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable all this talk of the forth of July and flag waving got me talking to a = teacher I know I the USA and she informed me that Y is a vowel now I = know its a long time since I was in school but I am sure its still only = AEIOU that are vowels so is this just in the States that they use Y as a = vowel. =20 back to Blakes 7 I have been of work for the last 3 weeks and it has = given me time to watch some Blakes 7 again, after watching Gambit it = remained me why I loved the Avon/villa by play the look of little boys = caught is just wonderful at the end,this is probably why I love the = zines like jabberwocky where things work out well for our heroes. =20 is it just me or do people prefer happy endings or do people prefer all = the ones where every one dies or suffers terribly. =20 and a thank you to all who write such interesting letters that have = amused for the last 3 weeks with my broken rib. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAA07.A501E620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
all this talk of the forth of July = and flag=20 waving got  me talking to a teacher I know I the USA and she = informed me=20 that Y is a vowel now I know its a long time since I was in school but I = am sure=20 its still only AEIOU that are vowels so is this just in the States that = they use=20 Y as a vowel.
 
back to Blakes 7 I=20 have been of work for the last 3 weeks and it has given me time = to watch=20 some Blakes 7 again, after watching Gambit it remained me why I loved = the=20 Avon/villa by play the look of little boys caught is just wonderful at = the=20 end,this is probably why I love the zines like jabberwocky where things = work out=20 well for our heroes.
 
is it just me or do people prefer happy endings or = do people=20 prefer all the ones where every one dies or suffers = terribly.
 
and a thank you to all who write such interesting = letters that=20 have amused for the last 3 weeks with my broken rib.
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BDAA07.A501E620-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:51:27 +1000 From: "Afenech" To: Subject: [B7L] Happy endings Message-Id: <08452467536164@domain2.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: amanda To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Amanda said: >>>back to Blakes 7 I have been of work for the last 3 weeks and it has given me time to watch some Blakes 7 again, after watching Gambit it remained me why I loved the Avon/villa by play the look of little boys caught is just wonderful at the end,this is probably why I love the zines like jabberwocky where things work out well for our heroes. is it just me or do people prefer happy endings or do people prefer all the ones where every one dies or suffers terribly.>>> Well we may be in a minority Amanda but I too prefer at least hopeful endings -smile- I don't want them to suffer any more terribly than they have and definitely don't want them dead. >>and a thank you to all who write such interesting letters that have amused for the last 3 weeks with my broken rib.>> Hope the mending is swift. Pat Fenech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:01:34 EDT From: AChevron@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Happy endings Message-ID: <987acc2.35a3518f@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-08 04:48:15 EDT, you write: << Well we may be in a minority Amanda but I too prefer at least hopeful endings >> I like happy endings myself, but in the B7 world they are often hard to imagine. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching Avon et al suffer, but it's with the expectation that no matter how hard they get hit or knocked down, they will get back up.(Geez, sounds like a Rocky movie). This thread has me wondering. How many people think that our heroes "really" died on GP, even if that's not the ending you would have wanted? How many believe they all lived? That might determine if the "happy ending" folks are really in the minority. D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:42:19 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Drugging to Control Behaviour Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Taina posted a very thought-provoking piece about mind-controlling drugs. > Tranquilizers/"Happy Pills" > > Here we come to the class of drugs that the Federation seems to have > been using. Something that stopped people from noticing, or if they > noticed, caring about the situation they were in. > There's also the possibility of developing a drug which controlled > neurotransmitter levels so that people were always happy. No matter what > the Federation did, they would be happy about it. They would also be > happy when people they cared about died, when relationships broke up, > when they didn't get the job they wanted, and so on. The Federation > would probably have quite good worker productivity, although I think a > lot of creative work (including R&D) would go down the tube. This, to > me, is the worst of these three scenarios, although all three are bad. > > I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on these issues. > I wonder to what extent we are already there. I always wondered about the 'perfect women' who you see picking up their kids from school - the Stepford Wives if you like. Their houses are immaculate, and so are their coiffures, they don't argue with their husbands or go out to work. They talk to you for half an hour about soap operas and soap brands, seemingly entranced by the subject. If you mention anything which happened in the news, or talk about science or literature, they seem completely bewildered. Also noticeable - they don't take much notice of their kids, although that is ostensibly why they don't work. Check it out. Kid is saying 'mum, mum? why aren't there dinosaurs nowadays?' (or whatever) mum doesn't answer. Well, since I started working from home I've got to know a few of these Stepford Wives. And it is noticeable that a good proportion of them are boffed out of their minds on happy pills. Sleeping tablets, 'stuff for my nerves', 'the doctor said I should take them'. If you know anyone like this - check it out. I'm convinced that 'normal life' in our countries is so bloody unpleasant that people will only do it if they are drugged out of their skulls. Please note - I'm not talking about stay at home mums in general (nearly one myself) I'm talking about I-never-do-anything-unusual mums. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:05:00 -0400 From: Susan Beth To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] US spelling Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980708080500.00687ddc@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" amanda wrote: > me talking to a teacher I know I the USA and she informed me that Y >is a vowel now I know its a long time since I was in school but I am sure >its still only AEIOU that are vowels so is this just in the States that >they use Y as a vowel. Excuse me? How would you define the role of the letter Y in these words: lymph nymph syzygy More to the point, if the Y's aren't the vowels in those words, which letter is? Susan Beth (sbs@world.std.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:20:38 -0400 From: Susan Beth To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Drugging to Control Behaviour Message-Id: <3.0.4.32.19980708082038.00687ddc@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison Page wrote: >Please note - I'm not talking about stay at home mums in general (nearly >one myself) I'm talking about I-never-do-anything-unusual mums. Skepticism here: are there really any such creatures? Or is it just that their differences are non-obvious or even hidden? If your "Stepford" wife spends her free mornings writing slashy stories, will she volunteer that in casual conversation with faint acquaintance? Leaving that aside, I've been thinking over the stay-at-home mothers I know, and I honestly can't think of one I'd call a "Stepford", with the connotations of plasticity and shallowness and artificiality. The one who comes closest to your "never does anything unusual" is fiercely devoted to the idea that raising healthy, happy, well-adjusted, well-educated, socially responsible kids is the most important job she could possibly tackle at the current point of her life. She excels at the "motherly virtues", keeps a clean house, cooks from scratch, and is always the one who will volunteer to serve as a room mother/bake cookies/chaperone field trips/run a scout troop. Frankly, I don't understand why doing an excellent job at THOSE jobs should get a woman sneered at as a "Stepford wife" while doing an excellent job at any other job gets respect. If you want a group I do find it hard to consider with an open mind, it's trophy wives of rich men. If you don't work AND you have a housekeeper and maid and nanny and gardener and so on -- well then, if your entire "job" is to keep yourself lovely enough to serve as a trophy and (presumably) sexually service your husband, you aren't exactly adding your share to the progress of the world, are you? Susan Beth (sbs@world.std.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:59:43 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] A query or two Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Joanne MacQueen wrote: > > This made me wonder. It's more than possible that this has been > discussed before (I may not have been paying due care and attention), > but what sort of constitution do you think the Federation has? If it has > one at all, of course. It could be that the Federation grew out of a > declaration of martial law that was never revoked, a situation that > suited both civil and military authorities. Thoughts, anyone? I don't think so, for various reasons, but especially the bit at the start of "Trial": Trooper Par: "Space Command runs the Federation." Other Trooper: "Think so?" Par: "Know so. We look after ourselves." Now, if the Federation were under martial law it would be obvious that the military were running the show, and Par wouldn't have to explain it to his colleague. Furthermore, the trappings of civilian constitutional law are clearly still in place, and the Federation citizens still generally believe they work. The Federation appears to hve an independent judiciary, a constitution that allows political disputes to be resolved by peaceful means, a military which is accountable to the civilian authorities and for all we know democratic elections. Doesn't do much good, though, does it? My, what a cheery thought. One important distinction between the Federation and our respective legal systems is that we never see a trial by jury. However, Travis's trial is a court martial, and perhaps the right to trial by jury has only been revoked in certain sensitive cases, including child abuse. Iain -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #186 **************************************