From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #19 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/19 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 19 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels [B7L] Sevefold Crown Re: [B7L] Slash debate re:[B7L]: Avons Angels [B7L] Video rereleases Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels [B7L] Heartbeat [B7L] Sevenfold Crown [B7L] internet chat Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Re: [B7L] Slash debate Re: [B7L] Fanfic essay Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Re:[B7L]Sarcophagus Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] editing on Volcano/DotG tape? Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #16 Re: [B7L] Heartbeat Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown [B7L] Steven Donaldson Re: [B7L] Claypit People [B7L] More Steven Donaldson Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Slash debate Re: [B7L] Claypit People Re: [B7L] Claypit People ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:47:34 -0800 From: Ovina Maria Feldman To: B7 Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-ID: <34C42C66.68C86498@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heather wrote: > Forgive me for being thick, but I am an ardent Who fan, I can't think of > occasions when Trek corrupted Who (I can think of far too many occasions > when Trek ripped off Who tho' Cybermen/Borg, anyone?) > Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith > I was thinking about the movie, particularly the REALLY irritating nonsense about the Doctor's being half-human a la Spock. I don't know whose idea THAT was, but I can't help but think some (young, very young) MBA type executive at Fox came up with it thinking that Dr. Who would be just too alien (and sophisticated) for American audiences. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:32:09 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Sevefold Crown Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 The Sevenfold Crown is available from Horizon UK price including postage is 8 pounds. Europe 8.90 pounds USA/Canada 9.40 pounds Aus/NZ 9.65 pounds Order from Diane Gies, 18 Holt Rd, North Wembley, Middlesex, HA0 3PS. Cheques should be made payable to 'Horizon, the B7 Appreciation Society'. Australians facing currency conversion problems may pay via Pat Fenech and myself in AUS dollars. ( contact P.Fenech@library.usyd.edu.au) This is a free service - the only charge is for the postage stamp from myself to Horizon. Although I do appreciate it if you order one of my zines at the same time. Horizon will take US dollar cheques. There's a $1 surcharge to cover their bank fees. They request people to please ask a bank the current exchange rate for selling dollars when calculating how much to send. Multiply the pound price quoted above by the exchange rate to get the dollar price and then add one dollar. Horizon should have copies for sale at Deliverance. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:30:19 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <885291922.203672.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat P said - > Perhaps surival of the > species requires women to acquiese. Nah - survival of the species requires women to survive - and as someone said in another context :-) 'Winning is the only safety' > Women who > have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby > comes along. Hey - we aren't all childless on this list you know Alison 'something else' Page PS cheer up folks - I could have gone ballistic ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:42:32 -0800 From: Jackie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: re:[B7L]: Avons Angels Message-ID: <34C4FE28.6F0E@termlow.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > > In message , Iain > Coleman writes > > > > > >On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote: > > > >> his "followers" on target. Indeed, they belonged to Blake, even after > >> his departure. Altho Avon *wanted* to follow a different path, he seemed > >> gripped still by an unseen hand on his rudder. > > > >Was I the only person who nearly spluttered coffee all over the monitor > >after reading that line? > > I don't believe it - I didn't see it when I read that post the first > time round, and I have been accused on numerous occasions of having a > sick and filthy mind. > > > >"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon, > >certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake. > > > Nonono - Sid James is Vila. That`s fine as long as no-one, I repeat NO-ONE, suggests Charles HawtreY as Avon. Purleeze! Would`nt Peter Butterworth make a better Vila. Kenneth Conner would make a fitting Blake, all bluster. Or how about the charactor "Odd Bod" from a "Carry On.." film as Blake (all hairy). And I know this suggestion would be better placed on the other list, but how about Julian Clary as Avon? As a rabid Avon fan, I ask not to be excommunicated for that comment, I`ll take any punishment you care to give. I`ll even spend the next decade spit-polishing his leather outfits (to his PERSONAL satisfaction- sorry, it is supposed to be a punishment). Who should be cast as Servalan opposite Julian`s Avon?? Perfect! Hattie Jacques!! Now,.... who`s left from the "carry on" crew to be recast in B7: Jim Dale, June Whitfield, Frankie Howerd, and Barbara Windsor (omigawd!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:03:09 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: Subject: [B7L] Video rereleases Message-Id: <199801201332.NAA16934@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This month's Previews catalogue lists the B7 tapes as having "additional footage". Anybody know is this means extra bits in the episodes, or is it just the UK Gold interview intros, like the latest version of the Trek original series tapes? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:01:31 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Richard Watts" , "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: <199801201332.NAA16930@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >The plot was a load of tosh, though. > > In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-). Er... I think you mean Allan Prior here! Boucher did the best episodes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:00:42 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Judith Proctor" , "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: <199801201332.NAA16923@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No, I'd have hated a PGP. A PGP claiming to be canonial would fix too many > things that I prefer left unfixed. My motives are purely selfish. If they > had done a PGP without Blake, they would have continued in like vein if they > ever do another one. If they stick to within the series, there's a chance > that they'll do a first or second season episode. I doubt they'll ever do any more after this one... > Bring Back Blake! Hah! And if they did, they'd probably recast him too... > > Hmm. This sounds like it might be a fun place for a honeymoon... > > You are a man of amazing sagacity. Find me at Deliverance or the Neutral > Zone and I shall sell you two memberships with my own tender hands. > You know it's a nice hotel, you've stayed there before. Sell? Don't you fancy having a genuine StarFury pilot? (not to mention Dr Who/DS9/James Bond type guest?) > PS. If you have a pair of suspenders, than you may claim to be a man of > infinite resource and sagacity. Does this mean there is going to be a Rocky Horror night? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:56 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I was thinking about the movie, particularly the REALLY irritating > nonsense about the Doctor's being half-human a la Spock. I don't know > whose idea THAT was, but I can't help but think some (young, very young) > MBA type executive at Fox came up with it thinking that Dr. Who would be > just too alien (and sophisticated) for American audiences. Ah, well, If we're talking about that abomination they call 'the Fox TVM' then yes, I see your point, not only that stupid half-human idea, but also the sudden decision to replace the Chameleon circuit with a 'cloaking device' Argggg! Another 'dumbing down for American audiences' move, I guess that same MBA type executive thought that your average Yank wouldn't know what a Chameleon was. (not that I am accusing all Yank of being thick, merely that US TV exec. folks are:-)). (Oh dear, someone's now going to saw "Excuse me, but *I'm* a YV exec.). Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:29:11 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Heartbeat Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Heartbeat - Sunday 25 January - ITV 8.00 Gareth Thomas is in this episode, playing a farmer by the name of Nathaniel Clegghorn. (I gather he's a rather unpleasant character) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:59:59 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 If anyone wants to comment on the radio play - ie. Love the cast, but please could we have an intelligent script next time and Bring Back Blake! then the address is: Viewer and Listener Correspondance, BBC, Villiers House, The Broadway, London, W5 2PA, England I've just written a letter, though heaven knows if they'll actually listen. Still, they promise to answer written comments, so writing must force them to read the letter. And as the play is current , they can't use the old excuse that they only want letters on current programmes. Put your opinions on paper! Judith PS. I'm beginning to feel like Terry Wogan... -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:43:00 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] internet chat Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 I finally got to see Paul's internet chat when a kind soul posted a copy to Space City. (Maybe someone ought to tell the beeb that there is such a thing as a defined HTML standard and their page does not meet it...) There was nothikng greatly unexpected about the chat apart from two small bits that worried me. > nzfan asks: "The sci-fi writer, Tanith Lee, did some wonderful > scripts for "Blake's 7", any chance of any future "Blake's 7" > involving her?" > Paul Darrow: "I know her and I think she's a wonderful writer. She > wrote some superb stuff for "Blake's 7" and I would be delighted if > she wrote more for us." > Brian Lighthill: "If we're lucky enough to get another commission for > a one-off then out of loyalty I would naturally gravitate back to > Barry Letts. But if it was another series I would consider other > writers." Do we really want another Barry Lett's script? The script was the weakest point of the production. I'd cheerfully have gone with Chris Boucher (the script editor who also wrote some of the most popular episodes) or Tanith Lee. Why couldn't they have used a writer who knew the series? Tanith Lee has previous experience of writing SF for radio as well as having done two B7 scripts. I imagine one can write to Brian Lighthill care of the BBC. Maybe some of us need to put pen to paper... (politely) > Jamie asks: "Why didn't the radio-play follow on from the final > television episode. Isn't this something of a cop-out?" > Brian Lighthill:(laughing) "Yes it is a cop out. BUT I didn't want to > get into the discussion about whether the whole of the last episode > had been a dream, so I decided to pitch it between the penultimate > series and the last series. And if we ever do another one we'll pitch > it in the same place...probably." Does he realise that the 4th season is probably the least popular overall? The catch is that he produced 'Gold' and 'Orbit' and thus is naturally drawn towards the 4th season. If we ever do get another radio play, I like to see all the seasons given an equal chance. After all, in Horizon's massive character popularity survey (newsletter 30 and I believe 460 people responsed to the survey), the order was Avon, Vila, Blake, Cally, Servalan, Jenna, Tarrant, Orac, Travis 1, Dayna, Zen, Soolin, Gan, Travis 2, Slave. Thus, if you wanted to pick the most popular crew, you'd probably have to choose the second season. Include Orac, lose Gan (though I'd personally prefer to keep Gan as well). Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:11:06 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] t-shirt slogans Message-ID: In message , PATTI McCLELLAN writes > How about this shirt for Paul: > > Front: The Sevenfold Crown > Rear: Not Bad For a First Draft But add "of a Dr Who script". -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:18:43 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: In message <34C416E8.47C7@geocities.com>, Pat Patera writes >Ovina Maria Feldman wrote: >> re: >> Pat Patera wrote: >> > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more >> > focused and more motivated... >> >> This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men >> have controlled the social and economics factors ... > >refer to top statement. >Ann Landers said: "No one can be taken advantage of without their >permission." I'm going to use a very appropriate swear word here - bollocks. I'm spot-on average height for my racial group - 163 cm tall (5 foot 4) That means well over half the male population in my racial group is bigger and stronger than me. Think about it. > Women who >have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby >comes along. Yes, this does happen. But not to all women, and partly down to women not having a choice - if the woman doesn't look after the baby, the man certainly won't. Not being willing to neglect a baby is not the same as brain being turned to mush by hormones, which is what I think you were describing. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:05:57 EST From: E van Looy To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fanfic essay Message-ID: <68491c40.34c511b7@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Pat P wrote: Exactly. In every male-buddies series worth its salt, at one time or another you get the following scenario: One of our heros gets hurt badly, his best friend is anguished, sends him off in an ambulance and swears: "I'll get the bastards who did this to you." The rest of the episode is then devoted to our able-bodied buddy expressing his shock and outrage through hunting down the assailants and fighting with his superiors about his obsessive hunt. In the meantime, our wounded hero is all alone in hospital, fighting for his life. Does his best friend bring him grapes, tell him he's going to be just fine, help him fill out the insurance papers, water the cat and feed the plants? Hell no, he's off running around looking anguished. This, to a female, is very unsatisfying. That's when we send off $20 to buy a zine which tells us what really happened. Elise ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:16:58 EST From: E van Looy To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-19 12:23:51 EST, you Fewox wrote: << My question is: What is the general attitude of fans of the show about that episode? I can't think of a more unsatisfying ending than that but on the other hand its not the typical ending where everything gets neatly wrapped up in a tidy little package either. >> I'll say this list's raison d'etre is that very episode. Blake's very unsatisfactoriness still keeps B7 fandom going strong after all those years. Tidy script writers work like contraceptives on fandom. Elise ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:42:27 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re:[B7L]Sarcophagus Message-ID: <34C58AC3.7E3C@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just seen 'Sarcophagus' for the first time. Given everything I had read about this episode and the high regard in which Tanith Lee is held, I was a little disappointed. It had its good bits - notably the scene between Avon and Cally at the end - but to be honest all that atmospheric dancing around at the start was at least twice as long as necessary IMO (thats the first time I have used one of these acronyms I must be getting the hang of things!) Maybe its just me and I don't really go in for too much mysticism but I did feel that the plot was altogether too light. Two points though : I thought this episode was the strongest suggestion of an Avon /Cally "understanding". Not just the scene at the end but also one near the beginning when he is speaking to her in her cabin and she smiles and pats him on the shoulder. It also highlighted the aimlessness of the crew at this point. They were intending to visit some indifferent asteroid and then visited the alien spaceship instead as a sort of 'Why not, it's something to do' venture. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:05:34 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-ID: <34C5821E.209@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Patera wrote: > > Avon's Angels? > Yes, that line was trite. But as you'll recall, in the transcripts, PD > mentioned the B7 script he wrote, (the one with the *terrible* title: > Man of Iron - (even Sly Stallone wouldn't touch that one!) > Man of Iron? That reminds me of the time on our school German exchange when we were taken around a ball bearing factory and shown an informational film, translated into English, with the title 'Balls of Steel'. Collapse into helpless laughter all of the third year. Sorry, that was totally irrelevant and unnecessary. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:25:59 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-ID: <34C586E7.3A5@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <"Carry On Blake" - now there's a thought. Kenneth Williams as Avon, certainly, but I'm torn between Sid James and Charles Hawtrey for Blake. > So Barbara Windsor must be Jenna but isn't Hattie Jacques a bit big to be Cally? Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:59:24 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: <34C580AC.C75@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Iain Coleman wrote: Iain said : > > OK, the bottom line. > > I don't know whether to buy this or not, so I want to get it into > perspective by comparing it to the worst B7 stuff I've spent money on for > the sake of completeness. > > Is "Sevenfold Crown" better or worse than "Stardrive/Animals"? > At £8.99 (or less from Horizon) how bad does it have to be? Surely the more people who buy the tape the more encouragement it is to repeat the experiment ? Incidentally I haven't heard it yet because I was out on Saturday and my tapes haven't arrived from the BBC yet so I have no idea how good/bad it is. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:04:56 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] editing on Volcano/DotG tape? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia J hoped, about Avon boxing someone's ears: > Maybe the people who are re-releasing the videos should be encouraged to > use the original broadcast version, including the above No! Even more unlikely nowdays. Remember the first "You've Been Tangoed" ad, where the clown sneaks up on the man-on-the-street and assaults him with a huge rubber hand? That was changed pretty sharpish to the man getting kissed when it was alleged that kids were now doing it to people (without investing in the giant rubber hand first) and doing damage. Sorry to the non-Brits who have no idea what I'm on about. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:34:41 +0000 From: Richard Watts To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: On Tue 20 January 1998, master@sol.co.uk wrote: > >> >The plot was a load of tosh, though. >> >> In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-). > >Er... I think you mean Allan Prior here! Boucher did the best episodes ... but his plots weren't exactly original ... Richard. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:26:41 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's Angels Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat P mused: > I disagree that Blakes 7 was not a good title, even if Blake did > disappear. I thought it was great - it made the series even more different from the usual stuff on TV at the time. I was a young lad and I heard about this wierd series called "Blake's 7" where there were only 5 of then, and none of them were called Blake. Now if that doesn't wrench you away from the Flumps and Space:1999, even for a quick look, nothing will. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:30:19 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #16 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny wondered: > OK...what kind of slogan can we come up with for a t-shirt for our > greying friends? > I gave my dad a "60 and sexy" shirt some years back, but these fellas > aren't there yet, are they? > > "Grey to stay?" "Glad to be Grey" "Increasing Gravitas" "Born Before TV" "Getting His Third Leg" (Riddle of the Sphynx knob joke) "Licence to Gripe" "More Memory Than Your PC" "Zimmer's Angels" Any of those tickle your fancy? Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:09:58 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Heartbeat Message-ID: In message , Judith Proctor writes >Heartbeat - Sunday 25 January - ITV 8.00 Day before my birthday - what a nice present :-) > >Gareth Thomas is in this episode, playing a farmer by the name of Nathaniel >Clegghorn. (I gather he's a rather unpleasant character) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:34:10 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question. Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gwynn Shamlin wrote: > ...it would > have been more effective seeing the crew fall one at a time over a period > of time, whether than all together at once. It would have been nice to > see more interaction between Blake and the Scorpio crew as well. Perhaps > them joining him and Avon wrongly being suspicious and then committing > the act. I don't know, it just seemed a bit rushed. Actually, I liked it the way it was. From the moment Tarrant walked in, the shocks just kept coming harder and faster. - Hooray! Tarrant's back. - Oh cool - Blake and Avon have finally met after all these years. - Oh no - Tarrant's got it all wrong. - Oh my god - Avon believes him! - Argh! Blake's just making it worse instead of better - just shut up! - No! Avon you muppet! - Oh no - a Federation spy! - She shot Dayna! - Vila can fight?!?! - Everyone's getting shot!!! - Avon's gone completely fruitloop now. - What do you mean the end?!?!?!??!?! There you go - a thrill every few seconds. Why stretch it out over a three-episode special? Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 01:31:43 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard W waffled: > Oh, mumble mumble morphogenic field mumble teleport mumble. Actually, > I think this fits in quite well with the link between teleportation > and telekinesis. Erm... as much as it fits in with anything, of course! :-) > I note that you'd only need to be able to move something a couple of > um to kill a scorpio gun (they're electronically fired). Now, if someone > had had a pistol... Stuff pistols - if you're going up against anyone with only medium TK (i.e. not enough to simply lift you off the ground and then drop you onto something spikey), what you really want is a four by two with a rusty nail in it. Disable _that_ with a few micro-Newtons, you brainiac showoff! > Indeed. Then again, B7's a very personal show in a way that no-one > else seems to have been able to match: you get the feeling that you > could actually talk to the characters down the pub and find them > believable, as opposed to DS9 or B5: I can't really visualise > Sheridan going into a pub and not trying to defeat the evil forces > of the brewery, drive the bikers out of the table in the corner, and > ordering the pool table to break and attack... Ah, it's not that bad. I can see Marcus playing a round of pool anytime. Though he'd probably insist on using his staff instead of a proper cue and keep ripping the cloth. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:32:15 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: [B7L] Steven Donaldson Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat P wailed: > Years ago, when the first Covenant "White Gold" book came out, it was > much talked about. That was the only book of his I ever read, for I > found it depressing and disgusting. Talk about an anti-hero! After > spending some hours with his protagonist, (Thomas?) who was uniformly > depressed and unhappy, and brutally raped some young woman who just > happened to cross his path, I never wanted to hear from either Thomas or > Steven again. Ah, but he pays. And pays. And pays. And pays again. He's a complete bastard to begin with, and he knows it. It's great (though painful) watching him save the world time after time (largely by fluke), having everyone praising him as a demi-god, and he just keeps obsessing about all the crappy things he's done to the people of the land. And then, just as he's almost make peace with himself and figured that he might just about have paid back his debt to the land, it gets completely trashed in the second trilogy, almost beyond saving. And he has to do it all again, except this time everyone thinks he's the devil incarnate. So he pays a bit more. In no possible way can Donaldson be accused of being a misogynist (though I would say that, I suppose :-). If you don't want to wade through that (wonderful though it is, it is heavy going, though not as bad as Lord of the Rings - I gave up on that a third of the way through), try the Mordant's Need pair of books (bilogy?)*. Much more fun, even a couple of laughs, really tight plotting, good characters, loads of action, a bloke with cool weapons and power armour, some swords and sorcery (but no elves) and the women are almost universally smarter than the men. Oh, and they're about a third the thickness of the Covenant books. Oops. Better move this to the spin list - it's got nothing to do with B7. Tom Forsyth. * "The Mirror of Her Dreams" and "A Man Rides Through", though I've forgotten which is the first of the two. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:23:20 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Claypit People Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat P said: > > 7) Gravity, climate, topography and vegetation are all unremarkable. > > Nothing merits attention until everyone gawps at the double sunset. > Most planets with survivable "Earthlike conditions" would be - well, > Earthlike. Actually, our vegetation and beaches are quite spendidly > remarkable - it's just their familiarity that makes them seem mundane. I don't know - what's wrong with a planet whose hottest zones are barely above the melting point of water? For that matter, why do all planets have to be either "ice planets" (Hoth) or "desert planets" (Tattoine) or "jungle planets" (Endor). We have all three on our humble little globe. The one thing that would definately vary on other planets, even after millenia of terraforming, is its gravity. Unless you cover the planet in gravity generators/nullifiers (very expensive!), you can't change this much. I'm sure humans could survive on up to 2G quite well, though they'd have to be quite well-built humans (of course, humans born there would be naturally well-built) and they'd suffer bad back trouble, but they could live there. And of course humans can survive for ages in less than 1G. Anything more than 0.25G and the more worrying effects of zero-g would be removed, and if you're not going to go anywhere else, you're not worried about thin bones and weak muscles. I'm sure there are ways to make sure your 0.3G planet still has enough oxygen to breathe in (rather than floating away into space). > I'll say about fanfic in general what's often said of slash: if you > don't like it, (Neil), don't read it. But it's like a lot of things - most of any particular story is good, it's just the little (and often fairly easily fixed) things that annoy. I'm sure a lot of people on this list are fairly scientific, and cringe at some of the things said in canon that are not actually necessary for the plot at all. Trek does this terribly of course. When people vaguely mention that a planet's surface is at -290 degrees, I weep. It's not even a plot device! Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:41:28 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: [B7L] More Steven Donaldson Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenni O asked: > I also > find that he has a fairly small selection of personalities to choose > from (what is the real difference between Nick Succorso and Angus > Thermopile?) and they seem fairly simillar in many ways to Thomas > Covenant himself. I'm not sure about this, actually. I do agree with you in some respects, though. Yes, SD's not all that great at writing the internal "mind-talk" of people, and they all seem to come out like Covenant, but what they _do_ is very different. So what he says they think seems to have the same sort of phrasing and come out the same way, so it sounds as if the same person is "speaking", but I think this is just SD not being very good at desribing internals. But their actions show them to be very different people. Angus is obsessed with self-preservation, he hates feelings (i.e. he's worried about having any), he's fundamentally a coward, but he does what he has to to survive. So it's Vila with Avon's hangups and internal struggles over emotions, despite his distaste for them (whereas Vila just doesn't care most of the time, or gets drunk and that solves that). Nick, on the other hand, is a cocky, manipulating egomaniac who has a huge amount of innate talent, knows it, and so cruises through life. But when he slips up, he does so in major ways. Reminds me a fair bit of Blake (his talent being charisma, and guess where he slipped up on that!), but mostly of Travis. He is similarly motivated by revenge after a humiliation that left visible scars. They both hover on the borderline of legality. Covenant has Vila's talent for being utterly bewildered most of the time, and muddling through, and somehow becoming the hero every now and then when it matters (most notably in Ultraworld - or would we rather forget?). But mostly he just buggers up everyone else's life. Vila drinks to forget this and pretends he doesn't care, but Covenant's known for a long time that you can't run away from this sort of thing, or it eats you up when you're not looking (his leprosy). He's far more inward-looking than any of the B7 crew (except maybe some peoples' interpretations of Avon, though even then in a different way). > It's not that I don't like his books - I've got > everything he's written, and have read them several times - It's just > that they don't live and breath to me. (Saltheart Foamfollower is the > only exception - maybe he was based on someone SD knew?) Yes, I agree. It's been too long since I read the Covenant books, but Saltheart was written as a genuinely different character, and indeed the whole episode with the giants seemed to be more hopeful than the rest of the book(s) - and indeed a large chunk of giant stuff was removed and published later in the book of short stories whose name escapes me. Wonder why - it's almost as if he wrote it while on holiday, then later decided its tone didn't fit very well! Well, this is almost about B7, but it might have to go to the spin list too. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:42:15 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard W wrote: > > >The plot was a load of tosh, though. > > > > In the best traditions of Chris Boucher :-). To which Dangermouse replied: > Er... I think you mean Allan Prior here! Boucher did the best episodes Boucher did the best _dialogue_, and this sometimes lead to a good ep all round. _Plots_ he tends to leave to other people (though he can do them when he really wants to - he just doesn't really want to very often). Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:09:46 -0800 From: Ovina Maria Feldman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Slash debate Message-ID: <34C558EA.B32771D6@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Jones wrote: > > In message <34C416E8.47C7@geocities.com>, Pat Patera > writes > >Ovina Maria Feldman wrote: > >> re: > >> Pat Patera wrote: > >> > I think that when it comes to money making endeavors, men are more > >> > focused and more motivated... > >> > >> This is so much BS... Historically, for the last 2500 years or so, men > >> have controlled the social and economics factors ... > > > >refer to top statement. > >Ann Landers said: "No one can be taken advantage of without their > >permission." > I'm going to use a very appropriate swear word here - bollocks. > I'm spot-on average height for my racial group - 163 cm tall (5 foot 4) > That means well over half the male population in my racial group is > bigger and stronger than me. Think about it. > > > > Women who have everything going for them turn into "something else" when a baby > >comes along. > Julia wrote: >Yes, this does happen. But not to all women, and partly down to women > not having a choice - if the woman doesn't look after the baby, the man > certainly won't. Not being willing to neglect a baby is not the same as > brain being turned to mush by hormones, which is what I think you were > describing. I would just like to add that having a biological instinct or social obligation (male or female) to care for a child does not preclude a focus and motivation (whether emotionally or intellectually inspired) to make money or pursue a business or intellectual career... It may be choice -- as in our current social environment, or it may be something that is enforced by law or custom -- as was the common practice even 30 years ago to assume that when a woman married or had a child that she would stop working and give up her career/job. It wasn't that long ago that as a woman, if you married, you could just be fired; there was nothing you could do legally under the circumstances. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:16:31 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Claypit People Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980120201532.00d60460@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom Forsyth wrote: >Trek does this terribly of course. When people vaguely mention that a >planet's surface is at -290 degrees, I weep. It's not even a plot >device! Just to give them the benefit of the doubt -- if it was Trek they were probably speaking in Fahrenheit, in which case -290 is nippy but doable. -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 1998 08:50:26 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Claypit People Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Lisa Williams writes: > Just to give them the benefit of the doubt -- if it was Trek they were > probably speaking in Fahrenheit, in which case -290 is nippy but doable. If I'm thinking about the same Trek episode Tom is, they firmly nailed down the idiocy by commenting on the fact that it was below absolute zero. And then ignoring it for the rest of series, of course. -- Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #19 *************************************