From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #191 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/191 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 191 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Lost In Space Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Re: [B7L] Re: Videos was Lost in Space Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Re: [B7L] Re: Dead or Alive [B7L] Fw: barley sugar Re: [B7L] Fw: barley sugar [B7L] who died on GP *spoiler* [B7L] IIIII=Email Advertising?=IIIII Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Re: [B7L] IIIII=Email Advertising?=IIIII Re: [B7L] OFF-TOPIC: Discussing spam again Re: [B7L] who died on GP *spoiler* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:27:31 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Lost In Space Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 11 Jul, Anne Lane wrote: > Excellent. Remarkable that a 15 minute programme can get across so much so > well. The interviewees said just the right things, the appeal of the original > series was succinctly conveyed with appropriate clips (though they didn't > really show Avon's reaction to the "I have always trusted you" line) and the > references to fan fiction showed that Blakes 7 is still very much alive and > developing. I'd suggest writing/phoning to the BBC to say thank you. Hopefully a positive response will encourage them to treat fans in a similar manner in the future. Viewer and listener correspondence is on vlc@bbc.co.uk > > The only thing I think they missed was how well attended conventions are, not > just by fans but by cast and production staff, and consequently how many of > those involved in making Blakes 7 are still very committed to the programme. I think it was as much a matter of available time as anything else. We did talk about conventions, both Deliverance and Redemption, but I think when doing the editing he decided to build the programme around a general theme of fan fiction both in zines, on the web and as audio tapes. Even though I'd have loved to havea decent plug for Redemption in there, I think he made the right decision. It was only a 15 minute programme and covering one subject in detail was better than trying to skim everything. > > I didn't quite understand the shots of people standing outside their > doors.. He said he was after a 'home movie' kind of effect. That was the bit I liked least, not least because I'd forgotten I was barefoot! (I never wear shoes indoors and we just popped outside to take the shot) I didn't think they'd use such a large field of view, but my feet have now achieved immortality . I think the aim was to show fans as people living normal lives in ordinary houses and just to set us in the context of where we lived. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:07:19 +0000 From: "Loulou Harris" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On Sun 12 Jul, Harriet Monkhouse wrote: > > Judith P wrote: > > >I don't think the editor realised the implications > > >of a comment about the sexual relations between > > >the crew straight after a shot of Blake and Avon! > > > > Oh, I assumed it was extremely clever editing by someone who knew about > > slash and was signalling what couldn't be stated explicitly... How > > disappointing if it was accidental! > > Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but I never mentioned slash at all and > was never asked about it, though I think I mentioned in passing when he wasn't > recording that adult fiction existed. I figured we were getting enough by > having a sensible treatment of fandom. No point in muddying the waters when it > was being shown in an early evening time slot. Judith, I can't believe you didn't mention slash! I am sure that Andrew's editing was entirely intentional. We all said quite a lot 'off the record' because we had them around for quite a long time after the actual interview whilst they set up the lighting for the internal tracking shots. We also had quite a few moments when they were recording, when planes would go overhead and so that had to stop recording, or at least couldn't use what we said then. Some of the stuff we said when we knew they couldn't record was NOT suitable for broadcast (heh heh you know what I am talking about Una, Reba!) but my business partner, who was watching, said that it was the most interesting part of the interview. I must admit, I did begin to worry that he might have been sneaky and used some of it but phew, he didn't. Say no more. Actually, we found that at the end of the interview, Andrew (director), the camera guy and the sound guy Gary started to sound genuinely interested in the show. Andrew was a Dr Who fan but a bit too young for B7. They started asking us which clips to use, which were good episodes to watch to get into the show, then we talked about things like the development of rel;ationships etc. One of the things I told him was that there was perceived to be a homoerotic relationship between Blake and Avon and that you could see elements of that in certain episodes (told him which ones). Andrew seemed quite interested in that. So I don't think it was an accident at all. The other thing is that Reba told Andrew a good deal about that book about fan fiction by that MIT media studies guy ( I forget the title and his name, help me out Reba?) and he told us that he'd ordered it. So I think it likely that he knew all about slash, but was smart enough to know that some things (like our conversations when the planes went over) and slash were not fit subjects for his show. Like everyone else, I think he did a really good job with the editing. Judith, I thought you were great, so passionate and enthusiastic, as well as saying some very interesting things about Avon and Blake and Avon and Servalan and the doomedness of it all! My business partner, who is not a fan at all, watched the show with us and when they started the section about fan fiction, he suddenly said "Oh no, now its gone too far! You were getting away with it up until then!" I also got a phone call from my sister in law, in fits of laughter saying that it was great but that we were all very sad! So I wouldn't say that we can say we didn't some across as saddoes, obviously not to non fans, but what both these people said was that even though they felt that they had TOO MUCH information about what B7 fans get up to, they DID find it fascinating. Another friend (again, not a B7 or media fan) pointed out that anything that gives you an insight onto a subculture can be interesting. It needed that kind of detail that Judith and Andrew gave in the later section (about the fiction) of their interviews, to really let these people into the world of B7 fans. Btw, all three people in the crew were REALLY impressed with how popular Avon was! When we started to talk about him and basically what HOT STUFF he is they kept saying "What is it about this Avon guy!? Everyone has been going on about him!" Since the show, I have noticed record levels of interest in The Aquitar Files...lots of new registrations (about 20 - usually it is about five per week) ) and all saying that they had seen 'Lost in Space'and were amazed and delighted to know that there was so much on the Internet about B7! So lets hope that we can soon welcome some new members to the list! Pita ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:58:07 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Message-ID: <003601bdada5$7b6270e0$c84a95c1@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would just like to say congratulations to everyone on the show. I really felt that you did B7 and the fandom justice. Pita said: >I also got a phone call from my sister in law, in fits >of laughter saying that it was great but that we were all very sad! >So I wouldn't say that we can say we didn't some across as saddoes, No you didn't! You all came across as intelligent and articulated people. I could imaging that non-fans who may have been watching would have started off by expecting a bunch of propeller-heads but by the end may have felt that they really wanted to watch some of this B7 stuff. The one thing that surprised me was Judith revealing that she had only been involved for the last five years. As a relative newbie myself and a regular visitor to her page I had imagined she had been involved for years. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 16:04:16 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Videos was Lost in Space Message-ID: <004101bdada6$576bc960$c84a95c1@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harriet said > >PS By the way, I seem to remember Judith R said when the 7th video was due, >but I've forgotten again. And re Walter's query, can't they be ordered >through Horizon? When I go to the various Manchester shops, there are lots >of the first two still there, but usually one or none of whichever one I've >just come to buy. 27th July. HMV in Stockport seems to get them quite soon after release. The Horizon merchandise page gives details of mail order. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:21:13 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 12 Jul, Loulou Harris wrote: > Judith, I can't believe you didn't mention slash! I am sure that > Andrew's editing was entirely intentional. We all said quite a lot > 'off the record' because we had them around for quite a long time > after the actual interview whilst they set up the lighting for the > internal tracking shots. We also had quite a few moments when they > were recording, when planes would go overhead and so that had to stop > recording, or at least couldn't use what we said then. Some of the > stuff we said when we knew they couldn't record was NOT suitable > for broadcast (heh heh you know what I am talking about Una, Reba!) > but my business partner, who was watching, said that it was the most > interesting part of the interview. I must admit, I did begin to > worry that he might have been sneaky and used some of it but phew, he > didn't. Say no more. No, I didn't mention slash at all. We did most of our chatting before the filming as they set the lights up first, so in that sense it was harder to say things off the record that might not have come up during filming. No planes here . I suppose I was even more cautious because I'm a slash publisher. Also, you tend to feel a sense of responsibility. Non-fans coming across slash for the first time tend to have a rather negative reaction and TV is such a visible medium. > > Actually, we found that at the end of the interview, Andrew > (director), the camera guy and the sound guy Gary started to sound > genuinely interested in the show. Andrew was a Dr Who fan but a bit > too young for B7. They started asking us which clips to use, which > were good episodes to watch to get into the show, then we talked > about things like the development of rel;ationships etc. Yes, he was getting pretty interested when I was chatting to him too. Nice bloke and the sound man too. > > One of the things I told him was that there was perceived to > be a homoerotic relationship between Blake and Avon and that you > could see elements of that in certain episodes (told him which ones). > Andrew seemed quite interested in that. So I don't think it was an > accident at all. Ah . In that case I shall assume the clip to be deliberate and an in joke. > > The other thing is that Reba told Andrew a good deal about that book > about fan fiction by that MIT media studies guy ( I forget the title > and his name, help me out Reba?) and he told us that he'd ordered it. > So I think it likely that he knew all about slash, but was smart > enough to know that some things (like our conversations when the > planes went over) and slash were not fit subjects for his show. Do you mean 'Textual Poachers' by Jenkins? It's an interesting read. > > Like everyone else, I think he did a really good job with the > editing. Judith, I thought you were great, so passionate and > enthusiastic, as well as saying some very interesting things about > Avon and Blake and Avon and Servalan and the doomedness of it all! I think Reba had some fascinating things to say, so it made a good balance overall. He really did do a wonderful job of editing, not least in geting such a mass of interview material into something that gave a neat summation of what most of us were saying. (I notice Chris Boucher got mentioned more times than Terry Nation - I think we all independently tried to credit Chris's work on the programme) > So I wouldn't say that we can say we didn't some across as saddoes, > obviously not to non fans, but what both these people said was that > even though they felt that they had TOO MUCH information > about what B7 fans get up to, they DID find it fascinating. Another > friend (again, not a B7 or media fan) pointed out that anything that > gives you an insight onto a subculture can be interesting. It needed > that kind of detail that Judith and Andrew gave in the later section > (about the fiction) of their interviews, to really let these people > into the world of B7 fans. I find sub-cultures interesting. It's fun sometimes to work out how many sub-cultures you belong to. And of course, each sub-culture has sub-cultures within it. Bigger fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em. Little fleas have lesser fleas and so ad infinitum. > > Btw, all three people in the crew were REALLY impressed with how > popular Avon was! When we started to talk about him and basically > what HOT STUFF he is they kept saying "What is it about this Avon > guy!? Everyone has been going on about him!" In a word - sex. > > Since the show, I have noticed record levels of interest in The > Aquitar Files...lots of new registrations (about 20 - usually it is > about five per week) ) and all saying that they had seen 'Lost in > Space'and were amazed and delighted to know that there was so much on > the Internet about B7! So lets hope that we can soon welcome some > new members to the list! > Likewise. The jump in hits on my site was even greater than the peak after The Sevenfold Crown was broadcast. We had a hundred hits within the first two hours after the programme. Then over 200 hits on the top page in 24 hours as compared to our normal 50 a day. If it follows the pattern after the Sevenfold Crown, I'd expect the peak to last for several more days and to end up with a permanent increase on the normal hit rate. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:56:15 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Dead or Alive Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calle said - > This is where the expression "cliffhanger" comes from. I thought > everyone knew that, but given your comment above maybe I was overly > optimistic. You may well be right Calle, and I should have left out the explanation. I'm afraid my job mostly consists of trying to make sure I haven't left out any important explanations, and I know it's rubbing off on the rest of my life. Steve will no doubt remember the day I tried to tell him what a beer kitty was.. :-/ The words 'grandmother' 'suck' and 'eggs' spring to mind Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:43:51 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator" Subject: [B7L] Fw: barley sugar Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well a few of the folks on the Iain Banks list are discussing B7 - thanks to Lost in Space. Thought you might be able to throw some light on this anecdote - anyone? > Here's a bit a B7 trivia for you instead. One of the actors (can't remember > his name now) used to wear a large, translucent, ring. This was actually a > barley sugar (the props department having failed to come up with anything > else that looked like what the director of the series wanted). I have it on > good authority that whenever the actor concerned and the director fell out > over a scene the guy would eat the "stone" of his ring - necessitating > another trip to the sweet shop . Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:22:58 EDT From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Fw: barley sugar Message-ID: <78e459d1.35a96f83@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-07-12 18:00:50 EDT, you write: << arley sugar (the props department having failed to come up with anything > else that looked like what the director of the series wanted). I have it on > good authority that whenever the actor concerned and the director fell out > over a scene the guy would eat the "stone" of his ring - necessitating > another trip to the sweet shop . >> Sounds like Travis II to me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:47:48 GMT From: Roger the Shrubber To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] who died on GP *spoiler* Message-Id: <199807131447.OAA11239@axis.jeack.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ray & steve wrote Ray said: "Blake: Dead. Avon shot him at close range, so I >don't see how he can be alive." > >He was only shot in the gut and he was on a base that >presumably had modern medical facilities. People can survive >gun shots into the gut today. Like you said he was the only one bleeding. Unless there is a medical facility on that base (which there could have been) he would have died >That's cheating. You can say that about any of them. In fact the >ending was done in that way in case there was a fifth season >and they could pick and choose who survived depending on ***** *spoiler* according to the official book sequel "afterlife" dayna died soolin died blake died vila lived avon lived tarrant lived The debate about who died on GP only continues because many fans do not accept Afterlife as canon. Perahps someone can explain why this is so. ___________________________________ from Darren r ..... Comments are welcome ! powerplay@cheerful.com ____________________________________ "OK, here's a disc sander, maybe ratchet up the manliness just a tad." ______________________________________ "The Administration is out to get me" _______________________________________ "In the end, winning is the only safety" _________________________________________ "We are concerned obviously about any accidents of a lesbian running over a Christian person standing on the roadway" ________________________________________ ________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634 Anxiety & Panic _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/powerplay.html Blake's 7 FAQ & free screen savers ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 98 00:15:33 EST From: 50298235@bluewin.ch To: IIIIIOOOOO@mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net Subject: [B7L] IIIII=Email Advertising?=IIIII Message-Id: <199807130517.AAA04204@mail-gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net> WE REALLY SEND IT ! * We use remove systems * We use addresses recently collected * Recently Improved System Produces More Responses Now offering targeted lists! 10 cents per address, 4000 address minimum. General Mailing : Only $350 per 1 million. Introductory offer : Get the first million for only $250 ! " Test Drive " Special ! Try our service for $55, we send 250,000 of your ads. Click here to reply back about this offer Or, type in this address in your web browser if you are not html compatible: http://209.84.246.162/bmform.htm Admin Internet Services [ This message is not intended for residents in the state of Washington, screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability. Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by using the following link: If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be removed from this list, Click here to go to global remove site if you want your address removed from mailing .... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:37:14 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L]: Lost in Space Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 12 Jul, Julie Horner wrote: > No you didn't! You all came across as intelligent and articulated people. > I could imaging that non-fans who may have been watching would have started > off by expecting a bunch of propeller-heads but by the end may have felt > that they really wanted to watch some of this B7 stuff. Sorry, I had to laugh here. I assure you, I wasn't articulated - not fully anyway. My right elbow was recovering from a fracture at the time... Articulate possibly... > > The one thing that surprised me was Judith revealing that she had only been > involved for the last five years. As a relative newbie myself and a regular > visitor to her page I had imagined she had been involved for years. My favourite Gareth joke is when someone asked him how long he'd known me and he replied in all seriousness that it was six or seven years. It was more like two and a half at the time, but I certainly wasn't going to contradict him. (I was rather flattered actually) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 01:32:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kim F. Holec" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] IIIII=Email Advertising?=IIIII Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear List Maintainer, Looks like we have some problems. Is this "person" subbed to the list? If so, they need to cease posting this type of spam right now. If they aren't subbed to the list, may I suggest you check with your isp's sysadm, and make sure your mail servers don't relay. If you have any questions, or answers, send them in email and/or post to the list. Kim (delurking coz she hates spam) On Sun, 12 Jul 1998 50298235@bluewin.ch wrote: > WE REALLY SEND IT ! > > * We use remove systems > * We use addresses recently collected > * Recently Improved System Produces More Responses > > Now offering targeted lists! 10 cents per address, 4000 address minimum. > > General Mailing : > > Only $350 per 1 million. Introductory offer : > > Get the first million for only $250 ! > > " Test Drive " Special ! Try our service for $55, we send 250,000 > of your ads. > > Click here to reply back about this offer > > Or, type in this address in your web browser if you are not html compatible: > http://209.84.246.162/bmform.htm > > Admin > Internet Services > [ This message is not intended for residents in the state of Washington, > screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical ability. > Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you > by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by using the > following link: > > If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be removed from this > list, > Click here to go to global remove site if you want your address removed from > mailing > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 1998 11:40:29 +0200 From: Calle Dybedahl To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] OFF-TOPIC: Discussing spam again Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII "Kim F. Holec" writes: > Is this "person" subbed to the list? No. Everyone can post to the list. Changing this have been discussed, but at an average of one spam per four months it's not really worth the extra bother to close it. > If so, they need to cease posting this type of spam right now. Agreed. If you can find them, please kill them for me. > If they aren't subbed to the list, may I suggest you check with your > isp's sysadm, and make sure your mail servers don't relay. There is some confusion here, I think... 1) Sending mail to the list is utterly unrelated to mail relaying. 2) Our machines have had relaying turned off for a long time now (the occasional workstation may have been misconfigured, if you know of one please tell us). 3) We don't have an ISP, since we are part of the Internet itself. Although if you really stretch the definitions you might see the Swedish 'net backbone as our ISP, I guess. 4) I *am* a sysadmin at Lysator. Closing the list would mean that everyone who posts from more than one account would have to register the "extra" accounts. This would very likely cause quite a bit of confusion. I'll do it if spam starts to get more frequent, or if someone persuades me. -- Calle Dybedahl, UNIX Sysadmin qdtcall@esavionics.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~calle/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:59:09 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] who died on GP *spoiler* Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon 13 Jul, Roger the Shrubber wrote: > according to the official book sequel "afterlife" > > dayna died > soolin died > blake died > vila lived > avon lived > tarrant lived > > The debate about who died on GP only continues because many fans do not > accept Afterlife as canon. Perahps someone can explain why this is so. For the same reason that we don't accept' Avon a Terrible Aspect' as canon. It's not a good book. Besides, Chris Boucher has said that if there had been another series then the survivors would have been those who wanted to be in it. As far as I'm concerned, there're all dead. I saw them shot. The series ended. They're dead. Pushing up dasies. Including Avon. Even if they were stun shots, he'd still take enough to kill him. If you want another 'canonical' source, Paul Darrow once said that Avon smiled like that at the end because he knew his gun was out of ammunition. He raises his gun to force them to kill him. If I'm writing a story however, then I can manage any combination surviving that you want. I think my most improbable set of survivors so far was Gan and Soolin. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #191 **************************************