From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #259 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/259 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 259 Today's Topics: [B7L] Seven Vices Re: [B7L] Orbit, Vila, and stuff [B7L] Re: Survival Skills Re: [B7L] Seven Vices [B7L] Egrorian/Samor [B7L] Avon apologising [B7L] Re: Judith's rant [B7L] Message from BBC Choice [B7L] Re: unsubscribe RE: [B7L] re: Double Standards RE: [B7L] re: Double Standards Re: [B7L] Videos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:46:58 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Seven Vices Message-ID: <19981011154658.4183.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >I'm trying to think of a sin for Soolin. Perhaps being The Golden >Goddess, she has none? I agree with Alison on this -- the Seven Vices can be strengths as well as weaknesses. However, I'll contradict Alison directly now, and suggest that Soolin would have had two main vices: anger and envy. The envy is, as an earlier poster pointed out, showcased in "Warlord" -- she envies those who've had a better life than her, and this is what drove her to bring Zeeona back to the Xenon Base. This is an example of someone acting explicitly to help the object of their envy. That, in case anyone ever asks me, sums up the difference between jealousy and envy. It also makes me wonder why envy is listed as one of the Seven Vices, rather than jealousy. Carol (and others who followed the earlier thread), while watching the UK video realeases, I think I saw someone who might just possibly make a realistic partner for Soolin: Carnell, from the episode "Weapon". I have reasons, but I won't elaborate on them here. Because Soolin was such an ambiguous character, she is one of the best candidates for a major figure in fan fiction. An interpretation of her character and her motives involves as much creation as analysis. Perhaps, instead of wasting my time posting to the list for the next few months, I'll waste my time writing a post-GP (or a GP-never-happened) story instead -- it'll certainly be a diversion from my thesis, anyway. Cheers, -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:10:12 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Orbit, Vila, and stuff Message-ID: <19981011161012.24562.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Carol: >My favorite moments of Avon-Vila bantering in season 4 aren't in >ORBIT. I liked the easy bantering of ANIMALS (when Vila is begging >for the wine as a reward for cleaning the glycolene tank). And in >GOLD when they are deciding on how much to ask for the black gold is >quite cute. In "Killer", it wasn't just banter. Avon and Vila functioned effectively as a team together. The way they were pressuring Tynus was a classic Mr Nice and Mr Nasty routine. It didn't work exactly as they'd planned it, but when things started going wonky, their skills complemented each other well enough for them to survive and succeed in their mission. >I guess that leaves me to conclude that I don't see special >heartbreak in ORBIT because of bantering. It's the situation that I >find more heartbreaking than the target; Avon would have been >prepared to toss anyone weighing enough off the shuttle at that >point. It wasn't anything personal against Vila. Do you think he would have tossed Blake off the shuttle? Or Del Grant? >Actually, no, I find cage shaking to be confusing. Unless >accompanied by a smiley or worded in an obviously tongue-in-cheek >manner, I presume that statements are meant to be taken seriously. >And I expect the person who makes the statement to be sincere in >his/her belief and prepared to back it up with canonical references. On the other hand, it would be sad if no one ever said anything provocative. If someone posts a message along the lines of "Tarrant's an obnoxious git who's always bullying members of his crew", that's not so much cage-shaking as playing into the hands of the TN. All it needs is a Carol Mc to provide three or four examples to the contrary, and then to ask for examples to back the original hypothesis up, and the TN have won the day. Cage-shaking or cannon fodder -- who cares? The result is the same either way: us lot, who read the postings, learn more about the characters whose worlds we're drawn into when we watch B7. Cheers, -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 21:25:04 -0700 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Survival Skills Message-ID: <361EE1A0.5879@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tigerm1019@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-10-09 20:22:18 EDT, Carol wrote: > << Now that provokes a question: the general assumption seems to be that Dayna > would have the best primitive skills of the lot (probably because we see her > with a bow and arrow), but I wonder those skills extended as far as fanfic > (including my own) often suggests (such as giving her tracking ability). > Could she rub sticks together to build a fire? >> > > Actally, I'm not sure Dayna would necessarily have the best primitive survival > skills. But Dayna states: "I like the primitive weapons. They require more skill." I can certainly see her playing games tracking her human quary, the Sarrans. Especially because she knows "They're afraid of me." I can see Dayna taking delight in playing the tracker, pretending to be the cougar, even sadistically toying with her prey, perhaps letting them know she is tracking them, just to delight in smelling their fear as they run and try to throw her off the trail, without once considering the unpleasantness of their panic or fear - much the way a cat would play with a mouse. It's this amoral mindset that makes her a fascinating character. As for making fire, Dayna would consider this the most elemental weapon of all. She could probably make fire rubbing two stones together. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:36:25 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Seven Vices Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob said - > The envy is, as an earlier poster pointed out, showcased in "Warlord" -- > she envies those who've had a better life than her, and this is what > drove her to bring Zeeona back to the Xenon Base. This is an example of > someone acting explicitly to help the object of their envy. That, in > case anyone ever asks me, sums up the difference between jealousy and > envy. It also makes me wonder why envy is listed as one of the Seven > Vices, rather than jealousy. I think that the meaning of jealousy is changing and weakening so that it comes to mean just about the same as envy (people use it like that don't they? - 'What a lovely coat, I'm jealous'). But I think it's old meaning is more along the lines of feeling that something is your own by right, so nobody else should have it. So I could (theoretically) envy someone else's boyfriend, but I would be jealous not envious if someone tried to take my boyfriend. Or as it says in the bible 'I am a jealous god' It doesn't mean god is envious, it means 'he' is expressing exclusive right over 'his' people. But back to envy. No I don't think Soolin envies anyone. It seems to me that envy has an element of admiration ('I wish I had such a nice coat/boyfriend/whatever') and Soolin doesn't seem to admire many people. Similarly I think Travis completely lacks envy. He hates the rest of the human race but he doesn't envy them, he despises them. Well. Not sure about this, it's just a train of thought. What do others think? Does Soolin ever admire anyone? Does Travis envy anyone? BTW on the subject of Soolin/Zeeona, isn't this just typical girl behaviour? Don't we always cover for each other when we have affairs and elopements and everything? Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 98 22:29:42 UT From: "Andrew Phillips" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Egrorian/Samor Message-Id: Dear Julie Horner, To put you out of your misery, the same actor does play both Egrorian and Samor. His name is John Savident and I understand he's currently in Coronation Street. Andrew Phillips ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:37:49 +1000 From: "Taina Nieminen" To: "B7" Subject: [B7L] Avon apologising Message-ID: <000b01bdf567$c8242310$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A text search of the episode transcripts for "sorry", "aplogise" and "apologize", showed 15 instances in which Avon used those words. Going on the text and my memory of the actual episodes, I'd categorise these as: expressing sympathy or used as social niceity: 4 sarcasm (mostly biting, a few mild): 7 acting (in Assassin): 1 to mean "no": 1 apology: 2 The two instances of apology are to Vila in Redemption, after attacking Vila when he enters the cell Avon and Jenna are in, and to the crew in Harvest after a small explosion involving his rock. (It's many years since I've seen Redemption, and I can't remember the body language/tone of voice Avon used - I'm presuming it's an apology from the text content alone. Harvest, however, is a genuine apology.) Taina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- DELIVERANCE JENNA: They're on their way. AVON: So are they. [Presses a switch and the final countdown begins on the monitors.] VOICE: [V.O.] Ten. Nine. Eight. Seven. Six. Five. Four. Three. Two. One. We have lift-off. [The rocket lifts off.] AVON: Meegat, I'm sorry you've waited so long. MEEGAT: Our waiting brought you. AVON: That seems like a poor reward, somehow. REDEMPTION [Cell. Avon and Jenna are sitting on the bench. They hear a noise at the door and Avon signals Jenna to stand by the window while he moves behind the door to attack whoever enters. Avon lets fly before he realizes it's Vila] VILA: Oh! AVON: I'm sorry, Vila. SHADOW BLAKE: No effect on the flight systems. JENNA: Everything seems normal enough. Maybe she imagined it. BLAKE: That's not like Cally. JENNA: Not like Orac either. BLAKE: [As Gan and Avon enter] Any luck? GAN: Can't find Orac. Even tried calling his name. AVON: Oh, I'm sorry I missed that. It's the kind of natural stupidity no amount of training could ever hope to match. HORIZON BLAKE: Persistent, aren't they? AVON: Let's just get out of his way. BLAKE: It was you that asked the question. Where are they going? We're hiding, already on the edge of the spiral rim. He's going further out. Zen, give us a course and speed where we can observe out of range of the freighter's detectors. [Blake has been rubbing his throat again and continues to do so] AVON: I'm sorry I mentioned it. VILA: Aren't we all? PRESSURE POINT AVON: There is a way. Where are Kasabi and her people? GAN: They were wiped out in an ambush. This is Kasabi's daughter. [Indicating the men in turn.] Veron, Avon, Vila. Veron was the only survivor. AVON: I'm sorry. [To Blake] I knew you were lying. VOICE FROM THE PAST |Teleport Area. Jenna and Blake appear in the teleport bay| CALLY: Are you all right? JENNA: He's a hard man to rescue when he doesn't want to be rescued. AVON: More to the point, are you yourself? BLAKE: What happened? Why aren't we at Del Ten? What's going on, Avon. AVON: Why don't you just say, "Thank you," nicely? BLAKE: Well what are we all standing around for? Or has the Federation disappeared? Our problem is to find Star One if you haven't forgotten. AVON: I'm sorry to have to inform you that he is himself all right. AFTERMATH AVON: Forgive me asking, but that device you're wearing ... [Indicates the glass bulb] MELLANBY: This? It's an image amplifier. Before I left Earth, I was taken in for questioning by Federation Security. They suspected me of supplying weapons to resistance groups. And they were right. Anyway, in persuading me to talk they were slightly overzealous. They destroyed my optic nerves. This thing gives me partial vision. AVON: I'm sorry. HARVEST OF KAIROS (1) DAYNA: Negative scan. TARRANT: Weapon systems? DAYNA: Mobilized. TARRANT: Energy banks? CALLY: Fully charged. TARRANT: Time? CALLY: Oh seven four five. TARRANT: Right. Zen, direct vision of Kairos. Locater fix on the transporter. ZEN: Two two one four. Stationary orbit. Thirty-six degrees. Five - four - steady. [The rock blows up.] AVON: Sorry. HARVEST OF KAIROS (2) AVON: Let's get on with it, shall we? Introduce yourself to Zen. SERVALAN: I am Servalan, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. AVON: Record her voice pattern, Zen. From now on you will respond to her commands -- on this one condition. SERVALAN: _No_ conditions. AVON: Sorry, too late. That instruction has to be completed by _me_. Unless, of course, you care to dismantle Zen and reorganize the program. I should warn you, I'm the only person in the galaxy who can put it back together again. CITY AT THE EDGE OF THE WORLD [Avon and Cally approach three of Bayban's men] AVON: Grenade! [throws object among men, who take cover. Avon and Cally come up behind them] Don't move. It must have been a dud. Sorry about that. SARCOPHAGUS CALLY: I seem to be more clever than I thought I was. TARRANT: What I really want to know is why you're being so bashful. What are you hiding and why? AVON: Shut up, Tarrant. TARRANT: Did you say something to me? AVON: I said, shut up. I apologize for not realizing you are deaf. POWER AVON: Narcissus is not the code word. Orac made it up. TARRANT: Why? AVON: Because that was my instruction. DAYNA: You told Orac not to crack the code? TARRANT: Why do that? AVON: For much the same reason as Dorian. I didn't like the idea of Scorpio taking off without me. I'm sorry to spoil your plan, Pella. ASSASSIN (1) [Avon slides down into a dry gully and walks along it towards the pirates] BENOS: Well, well, well. What's this, a mirage? AVON: [Feigning timid relief] Thank goodness! I'm so glad to see you. My space shuttle crash-landed back there. All my friends were killed. I've been walking all day. I wonder, can you please help me? BENOS: Well - what sort of help were you thinking of? AVON: Well, you know; food, water. BENOS: Well, I think we can manage that, don't you lads? Food, water, nice dry sleeping quarters. AVON: Thank you. It'll just be for tonight. BENOS: Oh no, no, no, this'll be board and lodging for a lifetime. AVON: I'm sorry, I don't understand. ASSASSIN (2) NEBROX: And another thing. A fine, well-set-up young fellow like you, you won't have any trouble in finding a buyer. Whereas an old wreck like me, with no special skills... AVON: I shouldn't think that bothers you too much. NEBROX: Yes, but they only - they only put you up twice. Then they decide you're not worth your keep, and ... [makes the cut-throat gesture] This - this will be my second time. AVON: Oh - I'm sorry. I wish you luck. ORBIT EGRORIAN: [Egrorian laughs, a high, nervous, laugh] Thank you, Vila. But when the Federation is broken, I shall return to earth to continue my work. Oh, there's one other thing I'd like from you. VILA: Yes? EGRORIAN: Orac. AVON: Sorry. That computer is a vital part of our defense. It keeps us one step ahead of the Federation. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:39:26 EDT From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Judith's rant Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Judith wrote: > Aaargh! You just ran slap bang into a pet hate of mine. I don't know much > Latin, but I can manage aquila = eagle. I said it "reminded" me of Avon; didn't say it was accurate. I actually consider the entire physical description to be inaccurate, but I left it in because it leads into the part that I thought fit Avon--the emotional impact of Monk's "countenance." Avon does not have particularly high cheekbones; he most clearly doesn't have gray eyes or an aquiline nose. > PS. hazel eyes are just as bad. Out of curiosity I once polled a group of > fans > as to what colour they understood by the word 'hazel'. After getting > replies > covering every shade from grey-green to brown and every with interesting > yellow > flecks in them, I resolved never, ever, to use the word in a story. Hazel eyes are not gray eyes. Hazel eyes are considered to be within the brown spectrum. Gray are within the blue. So, as you see, Monk's eyes aren't anywhere near Avon's. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:30:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Una McCormack To: Space City cc: Lysator Subject: [B7L] Message from BBC Choice Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I've been asked to forward this to all and sundry - hope it's of interest. Una ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:57:56 +0100 From: Ralph Lee To: Una McCormack Subject: RE: Blake's 7 Una, Please forward the following message to your emailing groups: Many Thanks. Dear Blake's 7 fans.... An Invitation from the BBC. BBC Choice, the BBC's new digital channel is making a theme night for next January called 'Over the Moon'. It's essentially a television theme night about our changing attitudes to space and space travel. We will be showing programmes such as; 'The Late Show: Whatever Happened to the Space Age?'; 'Horizon: MIR Mortals'; and others which show how the 'space age' influenced mainstream and popular culture: such as 'Louis Theroux's UFOlogists' and 'Fly me to the Moon' . We'll also be devoting one hour of the night to science fiction - based around an episode of Blake's 7. The theme night will be presented by Patrick Moore from a location in Sussex called Herstmonceux: a C16th castle with a major working observatory. In keeping with the informal tone of the theme we would like to introduce the Blake's 7 episode(we're still deciding which one to show) in a way that will draw-in viewers who are unfamiliar with it or would not normally watch it. Since nothing generates enthusiasm as much as the enthusiasm of others, we would very much like to involve some of the fans in this introduction. We will be filming on 30th of November and would welcome a response from Blake's 7 fans as to whether some of you might be able to attend and participate. The feature could take the form of anything from a discussion with Patrick Moore about Blake's 7 and Sci fi - to enacting scenes from Blake's 7 Fan Fiction or introducing memorabilia / collections associated with the series. It should be a fun day out at a great location and a chance for some of you to get together. I would really welcome any response from you all - to let me know whether you would like to attend on the day. I can be reached by email at: ralph.lee@bbc.co.uk Please contact me and let me know where I can reach you by telephone. Many thanks Ralph Lee ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:45:34 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: unsubscribe Message-ID: <28BC92C372F@dundee-as.dundee.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 17:03:42 +0200 (MET DST) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #258 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 258 > > Today's Topics: > [B7L] Orbit, Vila, and stuff > Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards > [B7L] Re: Sins > Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards > Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin) > Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be! > Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards > [B7L] Double Standards > [B7L] Gareth in Nottingham > [B7L] Standards and Sins > Re: [B7L] Re: Sins > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:08:26 EDT > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Orbit, Vila, and stuff > Message-ID: <1a4bc5f5.361f6a5a@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > More catching up... > > Deborah wrote: > > > The more I thought about it, the more I realize that the true horror of > > Orbit is not just that Avon is ready to kill Vila, but that he does so just > > after we've seen him and Avon sharing comaraderie that brings back to mind > > 2nd series. > > I'm not sure what this is referring to (some camaraderie that was shared in > ORBIT?) but then I'm obviously not as focused on the Avon-Vila relationship as > you are. When I look at Avon (or any of them) I tend to see more of the > overall dynamics. Avon had times when he was quite at ease with many of his > shipmates; and times when he was sharp and/or nasty to the same shipmate > (including Vila). Avon had a unique and special relationship with each > shipmate (as most of us probably have more than one friend, each of whom > provides a unique sort of camaraderie). > > > It's one of the few times in 4th series that we see the two bantering > > extensively, and where they interact one on one. To me, it just makes the > > whole episode that muchmore heartbreaking. Any thoughts? > > My favorite moments of Avon-Vila bantering in season 4 aren't in ORBIT. I > liked the easy bantering of ANIMALS (when Vila is begging for the wine as a > reward for cleaning the glycolene tank). And in GOLD when they are deciding > on how much to ask for the black gold is quite cute. > > I guess that leaves me to conclude that I don't see special heartbreak in > ORBIT because of bantering. It's the situation that I find more heartbreaking > than the target; Avon would have been prepared to toss anyone weighing enough > off the shuttle at that point. It wasn't anything personal against Vila. > > Jackie wrote (and I'm transposing two quotes here): > > > He doesnt. I can be argumentatively against any and all of the crew, > > including Avon. A little while ago I had a go at Blake, and got my tail > > shot off for my troubles (:-)). It`s just *fun* to shake the cage every > > once in a while don`t you think? :-) > > Actually, no, I find cage shaking to be confusing. Unless accompanied by a > smiley or worded in an obviously tongue-in-cheek manner, I presume that > statements are meant to be taken seriously. And I expect the person who makes > the statement to be sincere in his/her belief and prepared to back it up with > canonical references. > > Until now, I had been taking your statements seriously. For instance, I asked > you for examples to back your claim that Avon protected Vila from Tarrant and > never got them. Should I presume that was just cage shaking and not meant to > be taken seriously? What about the following? Serious or cage shaking? > > > After all with Tarrant forever picking on him on the Ship, > > Could you please provide canonical references that show Tarrant was forever > picking on Vila on the ship? It's the "forever" that I'd challenge, because > it presumes that was the only way Tarrant treated Vila, when in fact the two > shared an easy camaraderie often enough to presume they were on friendly > terms. But I'm not going to bother providing those references until you > provide yours. > > > Just exactly who on the Liberator accepted Vila. Dayna didn`t like him. > > Tarrant bullied him, Jenna didn`t like him (she was alpha, he was delta, > > nothing personal), > > Here's another statement that I'm not sure I understand. What makes you think > Dayna and Jenna didn't like Vila? Are there incidents in the series that > support this claim? Is this serious or broad exaggeration? > > Judith wrote: > > > A possible alternative interpretation (I was watching 'Hornblower' last > night; > > it was darn good and made me think of this possibility) is that Vila had > > reached > > the point where he didn't care any more. Rather like Hornblower going into > > the duel, he looked on it as a win win situation. If Tarrant shot him, he > was > > out of his misery. If Tarrant didn't shoot him, then he'd gained a victory > of > > sorts and would never fear Tarrant so much again. > > I didn't get any sense that Vila was anywhere near that despondent at that > point. There was no indication of brooding or depression earlier in the > episode that might suggest he'd reached that level of despair. He's > cheerfully passing out drinks and snoozing in Tarrant's flight seat. He seems > calm and relaxed rather than someone who is close to reaching the end of his > rope. > > Tigerm wrote: > > > I don't think it's a matter of his crewmates not liking Vila, I think it's a > > matter of their not liking some of his behavior. Vila DID have some > > dangerous > > and objectionable habits and not just from Tarrant's point of view (i.e. > > sleeping on watch and getting drunk on duty). > > Ah, yes, good evaluation of crew dynamics. > > > This was apparent even in the > > first and second seasons. I haven't seen the episode yet but I recall > > something about Vila taking off to go on a bender in "Shadow." > > A bender that proved to have fatal consequences. While the fatality was not > something Vila could have predicted, it was his hangover that set it up. He > returns to the ship not feeling well which leads to even patient Gan getting > frustrated with Vila: > > GAN: Vila! Get back to the teleport. > VILA: Five minutes. I must get something for my head. > GAN: You can't leave the teleport now. > VILA: Five minutes. > GAN: Don't be stupid. > VILA: My head is killing me. > GAN: And you may be killing Blake and the others. > VILA: All right. [He inserts Orac's key] Orac, operate the > teleport as instructed. Satisfied? > > If Orac hadn't had the key put in at that moment, Hanna might not have died > trying to remove the key later. Might not...no guarantee of how the situation > would have played out when Orac's key was eventually inserted. > > > Also, Tarrant didn't know they were dealing with Bayban. > > This is true. And he was fooled by a pro. Norl also had Bayban (who is > surely a rougher, more world-weary type than Tarrant) fooled into thinking he > was harmless. > > > For all their conflicts, Tarrant and Vila do not hold > > grudges against each other. Vila seems to have forgiven Tarrant by the end > of > >"City" > > Yep, when Tarrant apologizes, Vila tells him it doesn't really matter. Not a > gracious acceptance of Tarrant's apology but an indication that he isn't > holding grudges. > > This is getting long. I'll end it here and start another post. > > Carol Mc > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:54:38 EDT > From: AChevron@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards > Message-ID: > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 98-10-10 10:11:47 EDT, you write: > > << (One might be less > charitable and suggest Avon came back to Liberator in BREAKDOWN because he > didn't think it would be safe on XK72 when there were folks around who were > so > pro-Federation.) But you really seem to have trouble believing that Tarrant > might care for Vila as much as for the mission in MOLOCH. >> > > > Well, actually the motive listed above is one I do consider to be a primary > one, with his concern for his crewmates secondary.It's just that I don't want > to spoil the impression that I think Avon's perfect:-) And actually, I do > believe that Tarrant and Vila are establishing a fairly decent relationship by > Moloch: Tarrant has seen Vila in action enough times by now to realize his > worth. It's just that the Tarrant in Moloch is a throwback to the Tarrant of > City; the Tarrant I don't like much at all, vs. the Tarrant of Blake and > Terminal. Hope that helps a little bit( you realize you're going to ignite my > sadistic streak eventually, and get me to start goading you intentionally). D. > Rose > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:35:59 +0100 > From: Steve Rogerson > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: Sins > Message-ID: <361F8CE4.D3232445@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Julie Horner tried to fit first season crew into the seven deadly sins. > Here's my attempt, but I've widened it to all four seasons: > > Anger: Travis (because he never did kill Blake) > > Pride: Tarrant (with his sickly appearance) > > Avarice: Vila (doesn't really need explaining for our resident theif) > > Sloth: Servalan (always getting other people to do things for her) > > Lust: Dayna (for Justin at least, and a bit for Avon in her first > episode) > > Gluttony: Gan (I have to agree with Julie on this one) > > Envy: Jenna (after she saw Blake give Inga that kiss) > -- > cheers > Steve Rogerson > > Redemption 99: The Blakes 7 and Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Ashford, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > "Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care what you smell" > Star Wars > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:46:03 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Sat 10 Oct, AChevron@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-10-09 14:57:38 EDT, you write: > > > > << Avon was frequently nasty to Gan >> > > > > > > Then again, Avon was pretty nasty to just about everyone at one time or > > another, though it seems to me the ladies enjoyed relative immunity from his > > verbal assaults. > > And I think Avon had more respect for Gan than he lets on. After all, he > > sacrificed a bolt hole to try and help Gan, returned to the ship to help Gan > > and the others when he found out the Federation was on its way, and seemed > > concerned on Pressure Point when Gan took off after Vila. And I've pointed out > > before, though I can't remember the episode, where Gan and Avon are in the > > background, with Avon apparantly intently showing Gan something about the > > controls. Avon's not likely to waste his time trying to teach Gan something if > > he didn't think Gan was worth the effort....... Deborah Rose > > True. I hink Avon did liek Gan to some extent. I did a story in a revent issue > f Southern Seven that tried to find a more positive slant on their relationship. > > Acvon's choice in 'breakdown' gives Avon a lot of credit, especially as he > showed no sigh of making it because of peer pressure or a desire to look good. > > Would say mre - but typing is almost physically impossible now. > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:38:47 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] Killing characters (was Tarrant, Soolin) > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Fri 09 Oct, Julia Jones wrote: > > > > The black leather takes a while to appear, though... > > > > (Where *did* I leave the costume-by-episode file...) > > It's either on my web page or else in the file waiting to be posted to it. > We're hoping to add pictures of a lot of the costumes over time as well. It'll b > under 'essays' if it's thrre. I'd check, but the neck's very bad today. > > Judith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:19:05 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant, Soolin, damnit, the whole crew if need be! > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Sat 10 Oct, Sarah Berry wrote: > > Carol Mc wrote about some examples of Tarrant's loyalty. I've > > always thought of him as a loyal creature so I was very surprised > > to (finally) listen to Sevenfold Crown and hear Steven Pacey say > > Tarrant only thought of himself and had no loyalty to the crew! > > It's another example (like Paul Darrow's Avon from 'Avon: A > > Terrible Aspect/Prospect')of how the actors regard their > > characters compared to their fans! > > I'm no Tarrant fan, but I'm forced to agree. Some of the cast seem to have had > remarkably little understanding of their characters. Some of them have no idea > why those characters are popular with fans. > > I'm positive that Paul Darrow doesn't really understand why women drool over > Avon. I think he attributes it to the macho stuff. I attribute it to the > vulnerability. (A macho man only appeals to me if he is emotionally vulnerable) > > When it comes to Avon, I trust Chris Boucher's statements far more than Paul > Darrow's. Chris was the one working on the scripts. (Transation: I agree with > Chris because he views the characters the way I do ) > > One of the items we have planned for Redemption is to get Gareth to give an > in-depth analysis of Blake. The last Who's 7 was the only time I've ever seen > him really drawn into the subject and we ran out of time before we'd finished. > His normal comments on Blake tend to be throwaway lines to get a laugh. > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:54:53 +0100 > From: Julia Jones > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards > Message-ID: > > In message , Mac4781@aol.com writes > >Nicola, good luck with the move. I can relate to your box obsession: been > >there, done that. Especially with mailing a lot of packages within fandom, > >I've become something of a box connoisseur. It can be difficult to resist > >tasty discarded boxes that I see in supermarkets and the like. "That would be > >a perfect box for mailing zines/tapes/etc" runs through my head. > > > Sounds just like me for several weeks about a year ago, when I had to > move the office and lab from one end of the site to the other, for > reasons which seem to have more to do with politics than actual need. My > officemate and I became expert at grabbing likely looking boxes for > storing all our junk pre-, during and post-move. > -- > Julia Jones > > "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" > The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:38:58 EDT > From: SuzanThoms@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Double Standards > Message-ID: <4b6089da.36201a42@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > >>Judith wrote: > >>In fact, I've never been in a situation where I needed someone who > >>can kill. << > > But you've never lived in the B7 universe... > > Suzanne > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:05:54 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > cc: Space City > Subject: [B7L] Gareth in Nottingham > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Wed October 21st at the Red Lion public house, Canning Circus, Alfreton Road, > Nottingham, a televised party will be held as part of a fund raising event for > the BBC Children in Need Appeal. > > > At approximately 9.30 that evening an auction will take place of a newly > published novel, (Rivers of Blood) written by James Warrior and Gerry > Bramley. Every penny raised goes to the Children in Need fund. > > > The book will be signed by both of the authors and by Gareth Thomas and > Sylvester McCoy. The book will also be inscribed to commemorate the occasion > and will therefore be unique. > > > The event will be broadcast in the East Midlands on the evening of Fri 30th > November this year as part of the big Children in Need night. > > Gareth Thomas will be at the party too but not until quite late on because he is > acting in Arthur Miller's play The Crucible at the Theatre Royal in Nottingham > and the play will not finish until about 10.30. > > Sylverster McCoy will probably not be present due to other committements, but if > the situation changes in that respect, I'll post an update. > > (James Warrior is an actor friend of Gareth's and appeared in Morgan's Boy) > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:12:42 EDT > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Standards and Sins > Message-ID: > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Deborah wrote: > > > Hope that helps a little bit( you realize you're going to ignite my > > sadistic streak eventually, and get me to start goading you intentionally). > > But then I'd have to shift into Servalan mode and destroy your planet. Which > could be a bit messy since I live on it. ;-) > > I was thinking more about Avon giving Tarrant responsibility for bluffing > Servalan in HARVEST. I wonder if Avon did that because he was feeling a tad > unconfident in his own ability to outwit her. She had neatly trumped his > "crew to an Earth-environment planet" when she designated Kairos as their > destination. Or maybe he thought it more likely that she'd believe boy scout > Tarrant; that she'd assume anything Avon said would be a lie. I did like > Tarrant's nice touch of apologizing to Dayna, because he'd be blowing her up > along with Liberator. He said that with such believable sincerity. > > Steven wrote: > > > Pride: Tarrant (with his sickly appearance) > > "Sickly appearance"? Steve, what have you been doing to Tarrant and why > haven't you told me about it? The Seven Sins has been sort of a timely topic. > One of the songs I've been mentally fiddling with for B7 is THE SEVEN DEADLY > VIRTUES. But I haven't really had time to do more than vague pondering. > > Anne Perry's latest Monk book--A BREACH OF PROMISE--has a description of the > character that reminded me of a certain leather boy. > > "Monk smiled. He had a high-cheekboned face with steady gray eyes, a broad- > bridged aquiline nose and a wide, thin mouth. It was the countenance of a man > who was clever, as ruthless with himself as with others, possessed of courage > and humor, who hid his weaknesses behind a mask of wit--and sometimes of > affected coldness." > > Carol Mc > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:57:30 +0100 > From: "Alison Page" > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Sins > Message-Id: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This 'sins' stuff is rather irresistible, though all bases seem to be > expertly covered .. aha, perhaps not. > > I sometimes think the seven deadly sins are those personal qualities which > best distinguish us from doormats. So its not surprising that the > characters on my favourite show seem to feature them in great abundance. > Musing on this I thought - well most of them exhibit the majority of the > sins, often several at one time. So what about defining them in terms of > the sins they *lack* rather than those they exhibit? > > Like this: > > Pride - Gan > Gluttony - Cally > Lust - Orac > Anger - Zen > Avarice - Blake > Sloth - Avon > Envy - Soolin > > Vila of course lacks no sin, and Slave lacks all of them. > > Alison > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #258 > ************************************** > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:02:50 +-100 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: RE: [B7L] re: Double Standards Message-Id: <01BDF5CF.DDCA4CE0@cmg71700449> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit D. Rose wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:28:20 +0100 (BST) From: Iain Coleman To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: RE: [B7L] re: Double Standards Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Jacqueline Thijsen wrote: > > I don't know much about any laws about mutiny, but I don't think extenuating >circumstances are ever accepted by the courts. However, I don't recall >ever seeing anything like an official chain of command on Liberator or >Scorpio. They followed anyone who managed to convince them that doing >something was a good idea (not counting those times when the biggest >bully got > his way). You can't have a mutiny if you don't have anyone oficially in >charge. Which means that >any following of orders that occured was out of loyalty or fear. I guess >that >means that Tarrant simply had no business ordering Vila around, and got >exactly the answer he deserved. This (for me) is an important reason why I like B7 so much. Most other space adventure programs have a military or pseudo-military structure. This immediately makes the characters less interesting. Their motivations are generally clear (why does Spock carry out scientific analyses for Kirk? Because that's his job.) and it's hard to have any dramatically meaningful disputes when one character can simply order another to obey. In B7, all the characters had to have individual reasons for carrying on with this rebellion, and if conflict occured there were no guarantees about who would win. Iain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:23:21 +0100 From: "fifitrix" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Videos Message-ID: <01bdf5fc$a15a8630$1b649384@idscarf.unichem.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Rogerson wrote : >You mean you watch them! I watch the old set, the new ones I just put on >my window sill and look at them. Steve, Steve - what are you doing ????? Its the OLD set that will be worth money - as future collectors items. Honestly did you learn nothing from the whole Star Wars figures debacle ?? fifitrix -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #259 **************************************