From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #264 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/264 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 264 Today's Topics: [B7L] costume auction [B7L] Shadow/Weapon tape [B7L] Travis (was Seven Vices) [B7L] Oxfam Re: [B7L] Travis (was Seven Vices) Re: [B7L] Aaargh! Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards Re: [B7L] Aaargh! Re: [B7L] Travis (was Seven Vices) [B7L] Blake and Avon Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards [B7L] Blake and Avon Liberator (was Re: [B7L] Shadow/Weapon tape) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:10:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] costume auction Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I'm geting a sudden flurry of bids on one of the auction costumes. The Space Princess guard's outfit is now upto 130 pounds. Dayna's outfit is at 300 pounds Ro's velvet costume ('Horizon') is at 100 pounds The auction runs until the end of the month. Pictures of the costumes are on http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - see news. Having seen the hassle caused by people putting in bids at the eleventh hour on the Horizon auction, I shall state in advance that I shall be seriously irritated if somebody puts in their very first bid late on the last day. As an attempt to prevent other people having a chance to put in a counter-bid before the deadline, it's contemptible and I'll certainly allow other bidders a chance to respond if it happens here. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:48:11 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Shadow/Weapon tape Message-ID: <19981017034812.5016.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Harriet, I only wish I could claim your duplicate copy (those are two of the episodes I've never seen), but things are about to get a bit expensive for me Never mind boxes for storage, I've got to find a place to "store" myself, let alone my possessions! It's a shame, too, that I may not necessarily be able to find somewhere with access to a video player, so as to be able to watch the ones I've got. Anyone ever wished they were a tortoise, rather than a hermit crab? Ah, well, back to lurking until I'm settled again. Regards Joanne "...just as well, for I suffer from anoraknophobia, which means I headbutt anyone writing down engine numbers." --Victor Lewis-Smith, Harpers & Queen September 1998 (who, like Nicola, would dearly love her very own Liberator) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:56:35 -0700 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Travis (was Seven Vices) Message-ID: <36280762.6C79@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D. Rose wrote: re: Travis >< we can see his hatred of Blake growing. >> > ... It would explain why Travis deteriorates the way he > does into selling out the Human race. He reaches a stage where no price is too > much to accomplish his goal. An interesting parallel to Blake's own growing > obsession with Star One. We see several characters unwittingly become what they originally disparaged. 1. Avon becomes the revolutionary terrorist - for which he derided Blake. 2. Blake becomes the (potential) unrepentent mass murderer, as Travis I was portrayed when the character was first introduced. 3. Anna becomes the rebel terrorist that, as Bartholemew, she was originally set to spy upon. 4. Vila (post Orbit) becomes the bad-tempered character he chided Avon as being first season. 5. Servalan becomes a fugitive (passing as Sleer) pursued by her political enemies, just like the fugitive Blake she had pursued. This illustrates the adage: Our thoughts become words Our words become deeds Our deeds become habits Our habits become character. Hence, the characters each became obsessed with in their thoughts ultimately became their characters. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:04:14 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Oxfam Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I've just volunteered to help one morning a week at the local Oxfam shop. If anyone has any unwanted used stamps lying around (not the plain 1st and 2nd class ones) then just pop them in when you next order a zine and I'll pass them on to Oxfam. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:47:53 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis (was Seven Vices) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We see several characters unwittingly become what they originally > disparaged. > 1. Avon becomes the revolutionary terrorist - for which he derided > Blake. > 2. Blake becomes the (potential) unrepentent mass murderer, as Travis I > was portrayed when the character was first introduced. > 3. Anna becomes the rebel terrorist that, as Bartholemew, she was > originally set to spy upon. > 4. Vila (post Orbit) becomes the bad-tempered character he chided Avon > as being first season. > 5. Servalan becomes a fugitive (passing as Sleer) pursued by her > political enemies, just like the fugitive Blake she had pursued. > > This illustrates the adage: > Our thoughts become words > Our words become deeds > Our deeds become habits > Our habits become character. > Hence, the characters each became obsessed with in their thoughts > ultimately became their characters. > Pat P This is a terrifically strong insight. Reading this I think - why did I never see it that way? - because it seems so obvious now you mention it. I could add: Travis started off putting the pragmatic interests of the establishment before sentimentality and emotion, and ended up nearly destroying his Federation in a fit of pique. I think you are right about all of them, apart from Vila. I don't think he becomes what he opposes, because he doesn't fight it in the way that the other characters you mention do. In a way it is strongly fighting and hating something which brings the risk of becoming it. I think Vila's story is somewhat different - by consistently trying to flee danger he brings himself constantly into danger. I quite agree with the idea that dwelling on something, obsessing about it, gives it power over you. There is another force at work too, I think, which is that we particularly hate things which we secretly know are faults of our own (or if we are less self aware, faults which we are frantically denying in ourselves). So, let's take Servalan as an example. Pat shrewdly points out that by constantly struggling against rebellion, she actually ejects herself from the system and becomes a rebel herself. There is also another aspect - that Servalan hated rebellion because some part of her was naturally an outlaw to begin with. (BTW I know this isn't an original insight. I think the technical term is Projection.) Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:04:49 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Cc: "Space City" Subject: Re: [B7L] Aaargh! Message-ID: <006801bdf9e7$f7dd9ee0$ca4f95c1@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Judith Proctor > >There's Gareth! > >The programme was 'The Creatives' on BBC2 (not 'Creatures' as he misreported to >Horizon) and he played a policeman. It's a sitcom about an Edinburgh >advertising agency. > >Did anybody tape this Tape it? After seeing the first one I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to watch it at all. One of those sitcoms that has invented a sit but seems to be a bit short of com... Julie Horner at a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:03:32 PDT From: "Rob Clother" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards Message-ID: <19981017170332.19618.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >> According to "The Inside Story", Tarrant was 35 when he first >>boarded the Liberator. > >Remember, Avon called Tarrant brave, YOUNG and handsome. What, you mean 35 isn't young? :-( -- Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:10:09 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Aaargh! Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 17 Oct, Julie Horner wrote: > >There's Gareth! > > > >The programme was 'The Creatives' on BBC2 (not 'Creatures' as he misreported > >to Horizon) and he played a policeman. It's a sitcom about an Edinburgh > >advertising agency. > > > >Did anybody tape this > > Tape it? After seeing the first one I can't imagine anyone actually wanting > to watch it at all. One of those sitcoms that has invented > a sit but seems to be a bit short of com... Well , it looked pretty dire from the little bit I saw. If I hadn't seen Gareth I'd have channel hopped in about 20 seconds. I certainly don't want a recording of the entire programme, but it would be nice to have a single frame for the web page. Judith PS. We're having fun with a major overheaul of the video section of the web page. Should be complete in a few days time. Does anyone know a reliable online video store in Austrlia? We cojldn't locate one and we're trying to list suppliers for different parts of the world. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:05:55 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis (was Seven Vices) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 17 Oct, Alison Page wrote: > I could add: Travis started off putting the pragmatic interests of the > establishment before sentimentality and emotion, and ended up nearly > destroying his Federation in a fit of pique. I'm with you totally here. > I quite agree with the idea that dwelling on something, obsessing about it, > gives it power over you. There is another force at work too, I think, which > is that we particularly hate things which we secretly know are faults of > our own (or if we are less self aware, faults which we are frantically > denying in ourselves). > > So, let's take Servalan as an example. Pat shrewdly points out that by > constantly struggling against rebellion, she actually ejects herself from > the system and becomes a rebel herself. There is also another aspect - that > Servalan hated rebellion because some part of her was naturally an outlaw > to begin with. But here I disagree. Servalan was deposed by a coup. She didn't eject herself from the system. It was the fighting at Geddon (how's that for an obvious name for a cataclysmic fight?) that finished her as president. She was reported killed there, but obviously got away. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:04:31 EDT From: SuzanThoms@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake and Avon Message-ID: <1eb24cc3.3628f84f@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>Anne wrote: >>Avon has a deep loyalty and affection for Blake, which he does his >>best to deny, even to himself. That love is a burden, his Achilles >>heel. It makes him vulnerable and prevents him from acting in his >>own self-interest. << I agree whole-heartedly with this. >>By killing Blake he rids himself of this responsibility, and >>if he believes that he has been betrayed his action might be >>justified. It's entirely subconscious, but he *allows* himself to >>believe in the betrayal for just long enough to pull the trigger (well, >>pull it several times). I can't believe Avon had been looking for Blake all this time with the subconscious intent to kill him. Avon would find that harder to live with than his loyalty and affection for the man. Avon desperately wanted to find Blake so he could turn the responsibility of the rebellion back to him. Avon had feelings about Blake that he didn't want (not counting slash here) and denied them to himself and everyone else. Avon NEEDED to know that Blake was safe and back leading the rebellion so he could go off on his own, lead his own life, continue to deny his feelings -- and criticize and redicule Blake and his cause to his heart's content. Of course, if Blake had lived and become "the hope of the rebellion" again, it's doubtful Blake would have let Avon leave, or that Avon would have been able to leave. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:48:31 EDT From: Mac4781@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards Message-ID: <91d42058.3627db4f@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Rob wrote: > According to "The Inside Story", Tarrant was 35 when he first boarded > the Liberator. Actually, it's the description of the character before the part was cast that lists Tarrant as 35. That was their orginal plan. But they couldn't find anyone in that age range they liked. They started interviewing younger actors and ended up hiring a much younger actor. At which point they started writing the part for a younger actor. Which does make for some interesting Tarrant bits, since some of the early third season scripts were already completed. They fixed at least one of the discrepancies but obviously missed others. I have a copy of the Kairos script and you can see where they changed the one line. As written in the script, Jarvik says he knew Tarrant "six...seven years ago." Someone looked at that and realized that Steven was a young teen 6-7 years earlier, so changed it to "a few years ago." As Judith notes, we really don't have canonical information on Tarrant's age. Based on how the character was written once cast, I tend to put Tarrant at around Steven's age. The only two canonical references we have about characters' ages (that I can recall) are the mention that Blake's clone in "Weapon" is 34 (which I'm assuming is meant to parallel Blake's age at the time) and what we're told in AFTERMATH. The Mellanby's spaceship had arrived on Sarran 20 years earlier, placing Dayna at at least 20. That's assuming they were using Earth measurements for years. Maybe it was 20 Sarran years. Carol Mc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:57:54 EDT From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] re: Double Standards Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-10-17 18:37:58 EDT, Carol wrote: << As written in the script, Jarvik says he knew Tarrant "six...seven years ago." Someone looked at that and realized that Steven was a young teen 6-7 years earlier, so changed it to "a few years ago." >> There's also that whole fifteen year cycle with the kairopan harvest. Another glaring discrepancy. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:21:23 EDT From: SuzanThoms@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake and Avon Message-ID: <208ef69e.3628c403@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>Anne wrote: >>Avon has a deep loyalty and affection for Blake, which he does his >>best to deny, even to himself. That love is a burden, his Achilles >>heel. It makes him vulnerable and prevents him from acting in his >>own self-interest. << I agree whole-heartedly with this. >>By killing Blake he rids himself of this responsibility, and >>if he believes that he has been betrayed his action might be >>justified. It's entirely subconscious, but he *allows* himself to >>believe in the betrayal for just long enough to pull the trigger (well, >>pull it several times). I can't believe Avon had been looking for Blake all this time with the subconscious intent to kill him. Avon would find that harder to live with than his loyalty and affection for the man. Avon desperately wanted to find Blake so he could turn the responsibility of the rebellion back to him. Avon had feelings about Blake that he didn't want (not counting slash here) and denied them to himself and everyone else. Avon NEEDED to know that Blake was safe and back leading the rebellion so he could go off on his own, lead his own life, continue to deny his feelings -- and criticize and redicule Blake and his cause to his heart's content. Of course, if Blake had lived and become "the hope of the rebellion" again, it's doubtful Blake would have let Avon leave, or that Avon would have been able to leave. Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:27:10 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Liberator (was Re: [B7L] Shadow/Weapon tape) Message-ID: <19981018112710.45378@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Skimming over my very very very behind Blake's 7 List mail, I spot: On Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 08:48:11PM -0700, Joanne MacQueen wrote: > (who, like Nicola, would dearly love her very own Liberator) I think I'd rather have a Tardis, actually. More room. But the teleport would be mighty useful. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #264 **************************************