From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #29 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/29 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 29 Today's Topics: [B7L] Bill Billingsley [B7L] Submissions Wanted Re: [B7L] Digest problems; nerds Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7) [B7L] Costumes and nerds [B7L] B5 & B7 Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Re[2]: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Re: Re[2]: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Re: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Re: Re[2]: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Cult Re: [B7L] sex/gender [B7L] CHECKERS [B7L] sex and SF Re: [B7L] CHECKERS [B7L] Blake and manipulation Re: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 [B7L] Other species [B7L] Horizon Letterzine Re: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Re: [B7L] CHECKERS [B7L] I HAVE RETURNED ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:41:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Bill Billingsley Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Content-Disposition: inline I had a lovely (if far too short) visit with Bill while he was in San Francisco. If he shows up at Pages, please tell him I said hello, and how is he liking the zines. This young man is a credit to his age group -- a gentleman with a great sense of humor, and the good sense to be polite to a middle aged woman. I had so litle time available, I felt guilty, and hope the rest of his trip is wonderful beyond belief before he settles into working for a living. Patti ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:23:22 MDT From: "DAVID SANDERSON" To: BLAKE7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Submissions Wanted Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greetings B7ers, Egrorian Press is still looking for submissions for Tents of Goth volume 2. Tents of Goth is a general readership Blake's 7 fanzine. We are looking for quality stories to put into our second volume. It is our goal to put out the best magazine we possibly can. We want the knowledgable fans on Lysator to be a good source for stories in our magazine. If you have any questions about our editorial policies or submission guidelines visit our web site at: http://choengmon.lib.utah.edu/~dsanders/egrorian/egrorian.html or write me at: dsanders@library.utah.edu If you have any questions not covered by the web pages feel free to write me at the address above. Take care everyone, David R. Sanderson Managing Editor, Egrorian Press David R. Sanderson Q. How many Vorlons does it Programmer/Analyst take to change a lightbulb? Marriott Library, University of Utah A. Yes Phone: (801) 581-5632 dsanders@library.utah.edu DSS1@VM.USI.UTAH.EDU ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:11:04 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Digest problems; nerds Message-ID: In message <199801280229.CAA29995@rock103.genie.net>, s.thompson8@genie.geis.com writes > >Julia mentioned: > >>I was doing the colonisation period in school history classes when I > >first saw CA - the parallel struck me at the time. Even if the > >presentation was utterly naff. It's the wonky timeline in the episode > >that really has me fascinated, and that's not just the question of what > >B, J and A where doing for four months. > >Care to expand on that? What else besides the discrepancy in how long it >took the convict ship to get to CA, and how long it took Liberator? You've obviously missed the original post by Sue Clerc that started this particular discussion. She explains it better than I would, so take a look at that when someone sends you the digests. Baically to do with serious discrepancies in the description of Cygnus Alpha's history. > >Julia also said: > >>Hmm. He did start as a nerd. Definitely a nerd. He might even have > >stayed a nerd if he hadn't been played by an actor with ambitions to be > >Clint Eastwood. I think it took Paul about one and a half episodes to > >start noticably converting Avon into something slightly different. > >One of the funniest things in the first Trevor Hoyle novelization is that it >was obviously written from some sort of preliminary script, before the >actual casting had been done, and describes an exceedingly nerdly, homely >Avon. There are various other mismatches in description - in particular, he got eye colours and hairstyles wrong for several of them. Probably the only writer ever to describe Avon as having pale eyes :-) Then there's the description of Jenna after she's found the clothing store - "attired in the most magnificent -and revealing - space age costume". Why would Avon think of it as space age? > >I don't know whether it was deliberate or not, but I really think it was a >brilliant idea to have the computer geek played by a handsome and rather >flamboyant actor. The unexpectedness of it is part of what makes the >character so fascinating, IMO. It certainly went against the "computer geek" stereotype of the time :-) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:35:30 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] Ragnorok (was B5 & B7) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reuben wrote: > I am curious. Is Ragnorok just a Dr. Who reference (The Greatest Show > in the Galaxy) or is it an actual mythical place? Not a place, no. It's the Norse name for the last battle at the end of the universe, good v. evil. According to myth, neither side wins, the major heroes (insofar as there *are* heroes in Norse mythology) defeat the major bad guys, only to die soon after from their own wounds. For example, Thor (God of war, the one with the hammer), son of Odin defeats the great serpent, but dies straight after from the poison from the serpents fangs. Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:59:31 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Costumes and nerds Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Julia writes: >Then there's the description of Jenna after she's found the clothing >store - "attired in the most magnificent -and revealing - space age >costume". Why would Avon think of it as space age? Perhaps he thought it looked dated :) - rather as the outfits of the sixties and seventies look to our nineties eyes. "Space age" might equal end of 20th, beginning of 21st century. s.thompson8@genie.geis.com writes >>I don't know whether it was deliberate or not, but I really think it was a >>brilliant idea to have the computer geek played by a handsome and rather >>flamboyant actor. The unexpectedness of it is part of what makes the >>character so fascinating, IMO. Works for me :) ttfn, Nicola (girl-geek wannabe) --- Nicola Collie nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz Dunedin, New Zealand "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement "Avon's gadget works," seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 1998 14:14:45 -0800 From: "Buck, Courtney" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: >Elbert G Rudasill wrote: >(snip) detailed description of character development >But *everyone's* right. No character development going on there. >Certainly nothing as intense or brilliant as another one of Avon's >"witty repastes". B-5 sucks and can't even compare to Blake's 7 Since this seems to be directed at me, I'll reply. Actually, I NEVER said any of the above. I didn't say there was NO character development. What I said was there are no characters on B5 that interest me, regardless of how well developed they are. I DID NOT say B5 sucks; I like the show. I just don't like it as much as B7. I have never attacked B5 or the characters, but you seem to enjoy attacking Avon. Yes, I like Avon. That's my choice. I don't feel the need to attack B5 just because I prefer B7. I don't understand where your hostility is coming from because nothing in my previous post was derogatory to B5. Can we end this now and get back to Blake's 7... Courtney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:12:40 EST From: Bizarro7 To: sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: <4f41694c.34cfad5a@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-28 08:50:23 EST, sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu writes: << There's a list of references in Babylon 5, including B7 refs, at http://www-theory.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~aaa/B5.Ref.html. It's arranged by B5 episode and is up to the 4th season, I think. Sue >> Someone should notify the listkeepers that they missed a reference to B7 when Psi Corp head Bester says something almost identical to: "We are not expendible, we are not stupid, and we are not going." I can't remember the exact episode name. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:01:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: egr@pobox.upenn.edu Cc: "blakes7" Subject: Re[2]: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Content-Disposition: inline I will remember your quick draw, and never approach you unarmed! (This is me, giggling over here.) Regarding Blake being manipulative, remember when Blake challenged Avon's ability to handle the computers on the London, and Avon first said something like, "Don't try and manipulate *me* Blake." I think that was pretty blatant. But then, more subtly, and in a tactic he used ever afterwards, Blake put Avon in a position where his survival or his honor (which he would have denied having) demanded that he cooperate with Blake. If I ever get time, I'll compile a list, because I hear this question all the time. Other species on the series: Decimas come to mind. The fact that it costs less to costume a humanoid is the main culprit, I would imagine. Patti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:30:48 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat wrote: > PATTI McCLELLAN wrote: > > > > Regarding Voices: I kept waiting for Avon to inquire of > > Shevan whether he knew someone had attached a false eyeball > > to his bandages. > > > LOL! :D I'll hafta remember that one for April Fool's Day. > > Actually, I assumed that was some sort of deliberately obvious > prosthetic, rather like Hal Mellanby's big black eyeball thingy on his > belt. Only Shevan was on a budget. I thought it was G'kar's eye, myself. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:10:09 -0000 From: "Tom Forsyth" To: "B7 Lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat P boasted: > Perhaps I've seen the other colored boards and mistook them for Chess > sets? But then, my family was so poor we could only afford two colors. > Pat P Two! Luxury. My family had a lease on half a colour, and even then it were puce. We 'ad to 'ave boards made out of half-puce and not-half-puce. It were awful - couldn't tell council, or they'd 've declared not-half-puce a colour, and we'd 've 'ad to pay 84% colour tax on it, and that would've left us with not-8%-puce, which is 'owt good to nobody. Aye, life were tough in those days. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:29:41 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, PATTI McCLELLAN wrote: > Regarding Blake being manipulative, remember when Blake [etc, respectfully snipped] The problem I have, and perhaps other fen have as well, with the whole "Blake is manipulative" thing is that Avon is so much more manipulative on an ongoing, reptetitive, standard operating practice sort of way, that even mentioning manipulation as a Blake trait is like accusing one of the othrs of being a coward while Vila is around. Sure, they might show occasional...umm...extreme caution 8-) but it's nothing compared to Vila's mastery of the art. And the other problem is that Avon's manipulativeness is NEVER mentioned except perhaps causally in passing praise, even though it's blatant and doesn't have to be extracted from the screen with mental forceps. > Other species on the series: Decimas come to mind. The fact > that it costs less to costume a humanoid is the main culprit, I would > imagine. Oh, yeah, the Decimas! I try so hard to forget about them 8-), There's also Zil and the planet-size lifeform she infests, the Trantinians ("Gambit"), the species that created the virus in "Killer," a couple of species are mentioned when they're considering places for Gan in "Breakdown," the Altas and Ultras, the Sand, the alien in Sarcophagus, the alien race in "Time Squad," the aliens in "Duel"...do the moon disks count? Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:09:31 EST From: ShilLance To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-28 16:11:45 EST, you write: << > > Can you not see that some of your comments can be interpreted in the same > light? I've always seen B5 as one big morning soap opera in space. B7 may > have been many things, but soap opera it can never be called. besides, I > don't think JMS has the guts to do an ending akin to the one we saw on B7 > anyway. > > Gwynn Shamlin > Perhaps, but the only thing I have to say about the end of B-5 is this. Sooner or later, something goes "boom". 8-) >> And at the end of B7 lots of things go boom. Besides, with a new series, and several telemovies planned, I doubt there will be any serious repercussions. JMS knows he has to keep those characters alive for the sake of the franchise. Gwynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:10:25 GMT From: robbie@arakeen.demon.co.uk (Robbie) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Message-ID: <35112b58.1238152196@arakeen.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:29:00 -0800, "PATTI McCLELLAN" you did utter the following words of wisdom... >delighted that he managed to pull it off. But B7 was my first love >before B5 and it still is. Nevertheless, I understand those whose >delight has not waned. How about a compromise -- we won't flame B5 >fans if they don't run B7 down to make B5 look better by comparison. actually JMS is a really big fan of B7 - the sight of Joe's face at Wolf last year was one of sheer wonderment when Gareth came up to present him with the award - and seeing them deep in conversation for the rest of the evening was fun. I've liked both series, I grew up like most uk people, started on TOS/DW and then when B7 started watched every episode - ok I was young when it started but I recognised a good story when I saw it. B5 has recently been the only quality SF I can get (I don't have sky, etc)and I'm looking forward to season 5 robbie -- "And let the stream of my love sweep into unfrequented channels! How should a stream not finally find its way to the sea!" - Nietzsche <*> robbie@arakeen.demon.co.uk <*> robert.irvine@gecm.com <*> want the umtsb5 faq? mail faq@arakeen.demon.co.uk one will be returned ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:29:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Wed 28 Jan, Iain Coleman wrote: > > Both shows try to depict a universe of real people, where nice guys > sometime finish last, and wearing a white hat is no guarantee of victory. And for those (like me) who like both shows, there's always Redemption... > Trying desperately to keep this on-topic... every so often people say > "wouldn't it be a good idea if B7 were remade?". I don't think that would > be a good idea. There's precious little good SF made these days, and I'd > much prefer it to be original rather than rehashes of old shows. I mean, > yeah, a big-budget B7 could be very good, but would it really be that much > better than the original? I'd rather see new, intelligent adult SF. Of > course, if it was written by Chris Boucher and starred Gareth Thomas I > certainly wouldn't complain. Must admit that I too would like to see the BBC make a good, new, original SF show. If it was written by Chris Boucher and starred Gareth Thomas, I'd be in heaven. I refuse to believe you could get a bad show out of that particular combination. We have to have new shows, no matter how much we love old ones. After all, the shows we love were new once. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:22:17 -0500 From: ay648@yfn.ysu.edu (Carol A. McCoy) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Re[2]: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Message-ID: <199801291222.HAA26851@yfn.ysu.edu> Sue wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, PATTI McCLELLAN wrote: > >> Other species on the series: Decimas come to mind. The fact >> that it costs less to costume a humanoid is the main culprit, I would >> imagine. > > Oh, yeah, the Decimas! I try so hard to forget about them 8-), >There's also Zil and the planet-size lifeform she infests, the >Trantinians ("Gambit"), the species that created the virus in "Killer," a >couple of species are mentioned when they're considering places for Gan in >"Breakdown," the Altas and Ultras, the Sand, the alien in Sarcophagus, >the alien race in "Time Squad," the aliens in "Duel"...do the moon disks >count? Gill-breathing Wazis with an ability to remain dormant for several days are mentioned in "Traitor." Carol McCoy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:46:50 -0700 From: "John J. Doherty" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha Cult Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980129084650.007e79e0@gemini.oscs.montana.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:50 PM 1/28/98 GMT, Ken Minne wrote: >>You can`t really compare Vargas` organisation with proper religion. >>With Vargas, you followed him absolutely, or he had you killed. That`s >>not true religion, that`s a dictatorship. >>So I suppose it is natural for Gan to be confused. >> >>Bye for now >>Jackie >> > >I disagree with Jackie about comparing Vargas' organisation to a >proper religion. It was prefectly comparable to the Holy Inquisition, >the Taliban ( of Afganistan ) or any number of other loony cults. >They may be barbaric, brutal, deluded and led by a megalomainiac liar, >but none of that ever stops it from being a religion. The Inquisition was not a religion, just an aberant wing within a religion. I am not too sure what the Taliban is, I'll have to go look that up. Vargas's religion is, indeed, much more comparable to a cult -- and perhaps that was what Nation was trying to get at when he wrote the story. I have always looked at the drug he feeds his people as a "mind control" analogy. Perhaps, using the current terminolgy, we should refer to it as a New Religious Movement, though the fact that it had been around a century of two (I forget how long exactly) might belie that phrase. A bit like LDS really -- considered a cult (or NRM) for a long time, it is now entering the religious mainstream, in part beacuse it has been around for nearly 200 years. -- John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:17:14 EST From: MLytle To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] sex/gender Message-ID: <7d19e3ab.34d0ab8c@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Would someome please tell me, where is the B7 spin list? This is a topic I would like to follow. Thanks, Maggie ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 1998 17:53:51 -0800 From: "Buck, Courtney" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] CHECKERS Message-ID: >Sue Clerc wrote: >but let me try to explain what it was that made me >dislike the zine and think you had only contempt for Jenna. >(snip) More than that, though, her punishments were more damaging and >humiliating than what you put Avon through. Well, Pat, *I* really liked CHECKERS. It's one of my fave PGP stories. The Avon & Blake relationship was excellent. I especially liked their conversation at the lake. That was beautifully written. ALL the dialogue between them was well done. The Avon/Servalan thing was wonderful. I love the way you wrote that "experience" -- I liked the way you wrote Avon's relationship with the Scorpio crew once they'd joined up with Blake...especially Soolin. ;) It's been about a year since I've read it. I think I'll go read it again. I don't remember thinking Jenna got worse than she gave. It seemed to me that she got Avon pretty good a couple of times. I'll have to read it again keeping Sue's remarks in mind. >Sue Clerc wrote: >As for Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fans...hey, I figure Avon's >Simpering Sycophants has a better ring to it and a better acronym. 8-) Sycophant? Sycophant? I hardly think that applies...however, if you're determined to keep the acronym, how about Avon's Slavering Slaves?? That's a badge I'll wear proudly. Courtney (an AVON fan) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:58:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] sex and SF Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Brief comment, because I'm half dead with asthma today. Somebody, I forget who, said that people who enjoyed the homoerotic overtones in the show were missing out on good SF. Actually, it's quite possible to have both. I enjoyed the show as SF long before I also enjoyed it as slash and I'm sure this holds for many others too. I can get just as much enjoyment from discussing whether Liberator utilises hyperspace as I can from contemplating why Avon likes to wrap his arms around Blake. It may be a different type of enjoyment, but it's just as real. That's why I dislike the Sevenfold Crown so much - it's bad science fiction (although the bit with the hyperspace near the start is quite ingenious). The parts that I like tend to be the bits based around the character relationships - that's where the actors defeated the writing and gave us something worthwhile. Judith PS. This chain of thought was largely sparked off by reading the final story in Straight Blakes #1 this morning. Although it's technically about Vila having a fling with a lady smuggler (not Jenna), it is also excellent science fiction. It's got interesting thoughts on spaceship design, practical use of depressurisation alerts on an asteroid, gravity fluctuations caused by maneuvering said asteriod with the artifical gravity cut out and lots of other small details such as futuristic ways of loading dice, that are all woven into the story. It's rare to see that degree of futuristic detail in a gen story, let along an adult one, but I happen to enjoy it. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:32:00 -0800 From: "PATTI McCLELLAN" To: "Buck, Courtney" , "blakes7" Subject: Re: [B7L] CHECKERS Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit Content-Disposition: inline So, Courtney, are you a charter member of A.S.S. then? Is membership also open to sentient computers with self-image problems? I love Avon myself, can I join? Patti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:46:09 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Message-ID: <01BD2CF0.00383A20@host5-99-61-161.btinternet.com> Sue wrote: > The problem I have, and perhaps other fen have as well, with the >whole "Blake is manipulative" thing is that Avon is so much more >manipulative on an ongoing, reptetitive, standard operating practice sort >of way, that even mentioning manipulation as a Blake trait is like >accusing one of the othrs of being a coward while Vila is around. Sure, >they might show occasional...umm...extreme caution 8-) but it's nothing >compared to Vila's mastery of the art. And the other problem is that >Avon's manipulativeness is NEVER mentioned except perhaps causally in >passing praise, even though it's blatant and doesn't have to be >extracted from the screen with mental forceps. And my problem with Blake is exactly that. Avon is blatant, what you see is what you get - if anything he paints himself blacker than reality. Blake claims to have the moral high ground, be the great idealist, while he is just as deceitful and manipulative as Avon can be. Louise ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:09:17 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blakes 7/Babylon 5 Message-ID: In message , PATTI McCLELLAN writes > Other species on the series: Decimas come to mind. The fact >that it costs less to costume a humanoid is the main culprit, I would >imagine. That and the fact that there is less to go wrong, I would imagine :-) Those who recall the two Dr Who stories set on Peladon, and Alpha Centauri the walking penis, will understand what I'm talking about. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:55:45 +1300 From: Nicola Collie To: B7-list Subject: [B7L] Other species Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [Other people have mentioned Decimas, Zil + her planet, Trantians, the species in "Killer", the one's mentioned in Breakdown, the Altas, the Ultras, the Sand, the Sarcophagus alien, the Time Squad aliens, the Duel aliens, the moon disks, the Wazis] Also, the critters that jump Servalan and Travis in the tunnels in "Orac" - are they called Phibians, or some such? ttfn, Nicola --- Nicola Collie nicola.collie@stonebow.otago.ac.nz Dunedin, New Zealand "It just occurred to me that, as the description of a highly sophisticated technological achievement "Avon's gadget works," seems to lack a certain style." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:52:17 -0500 (EST) From: Sondra Sweigman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Horizon Letterzine Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This query is for US list members who also subscribe to the Horizon Letterzine: Have any of you received--or not received--your copy of issue #21 yet? My understanding is that people in the UK have had their copies for at least a week now, but neither I nor the one other US subscriber I've been in touch with about it have ours, and we're trying to find out if it's just us or if no one on this side of the pond has it yet. Sondra ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:54:50 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Louise Rutter wrote: > And my problem with Blake is exactly that. Avon is blatant, what you see is > what you get - if anything he paints himself blacker than reality. Blake > claims to have the moral high ground, be the great idealist, while he is > just as deceitful and manipulative as Avon can be. Sorry, could you point out the scenes in the series where Blake claims the moral high-ground for himself so we could discuss them? As far as I can remember, he sort of generally mentions destroying the Federation because it's corrupt, treats things as if they were more important than people, and that sort of thing, but I don't remember him actually calling himself a hero or being afraid to get his hands and soul a little dirty in the process. I'm pretty sure he never refers to himself as an idealist? The thing with Avon, also, is that he makes a great stink about Blake "handling" the others like it's a very naughty thing to do and one simply ought not to to do it. And then turns around and does worse himself. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:13:31 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B5 & B7 Message-ID: In message , ShilLance writes >In a message dated 98-01-28 16:11:45 EST, you write: > > > Perhaps, but the only thing I have to say about the end of B-5 is this. > > Sooner or later, something goes "boom". 8-) > >> > >And at the end of B7 lots of things go boom. Besides, with a new series, and >several telemovies planned, I doubt there will be any serious repercussions. >JMS knows he has to keep those characters alive for the sake of the franchise. On the other hand, lots of things went boom at the end of B7, but they *were* hoping for a fifth series. Only one of the characters was definitely dead, at the request of the actor, and even then the actor concerned had forgotten about the clone - not that he's been allowed to forget it since. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:05:20 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] CHECKERS Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 28 Jan 1998, Buck, Courtney wrote: > Well, Pat, *I* really liked CHECKERS. It's one of my fave PGP stories. The > Avon & Blake relationship was excellent. I especially liked their conversation > at the lake. That was beautifully written. ALL the dialogue between them was > well done. I thought Blake was poorly portrayed, but I almost always think that. 8-) Bryn Lantry, now, gives great Blake. Suzan Lovett, too. Very few fan writers do him justice. > >As for Disgustingly Slavering Avon Fans...hey, I figure Avon's > >Simpering Sycophants has a better ring to it and a better acronym. 8-) > > Sycophant? Sycophant? I hardly think that applies...however, if you're LOL. Well, of course you don't, sweetie. 8-) > determined to keep the acronym, how about Avon's Slavering Slaves?? That's a > badge I'll wear proudly. I'm sure it is but I'll stick with the first where applicable. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html Come aboard. We're expecting you. CoD for Death Takes a Holiday cruises. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:49:42 -0700 (MST) From: The Doctor To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] I HAVE RETURNED Message-Id: <199801292149.OAA18165@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice to be back. Reason I was away so long: I buggered a I386 Unix system. So: Del Tarrant is the twit who had Blake nicked!! -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #29 *************************************