From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #32 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/32 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 32 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L]: Avon Ads Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns... [B7L] zines for Deliverance Re:[B7L]UK Mag Watch [B7L] B7 ads Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant RE: FW: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns... [B7L] Re: LDS Re: [B7L]: random thoughts and such from the week. Re: [B7L] B7 ads Re: [B7L] B7 ads [B7L] Miscellaneous replies RE: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods [B7L] Time Squad 1/2 [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 [B7L] web page update Re: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods Re: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 [B7L] Ad Campaigns Re: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:39:10 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L]: Avon Ads Message-ID: <19980201163910.02650@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:40:48PM -0800, Jackie wrote: > Kathryn Andersen wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:18:54AM -0500, Alex Dering wrote: > > > And have any of the computer companies approached Paul Darrow about doing > > > an ad? You know, something like the "I never would have gotten caught, > > > swindling the Federation Banking Cartel if I'd only had a Macintosh > > > PowerBook with Tarriel Cell 64330 Memory Enhancement?" > > > > No, they tend to latch onto the "space" thing rather than the "computer" > > thing: Paul Darrow has done ads in the UK as Avon, for a car, and for some > > fast-food chain, but I don't know if he's done computers. Tom Baker as > > Doctor Who did some computer advertisements, though. With Lalla Ward. > > Are we talking "on-screen" ads here or "voice overs"? > "on screen ads" include Hamlet, American Express and Wimpey. > "voice overs" include Halogen Hob cookers, Airtours, Peugeot, Cellnet > (the X-files send ups). Plus all the BBC2 programme ads from the last > year or so. There was another car ad for a different manufacturer > (BMW or other German one). There have been others that I cannot remember > off hand- no doubt I will as soon as I`ve hit *send*. > He has also done ads on and for Talk Radio, as well as a radio ad for > Halfords (I think it was for them, I only caught it twice, both times too > late to stick an audio tape in machine). > Which one did he *do* as Avon? The ones that I mentioned. I can't remember what the particular car *was*, but PD was dressed up as Avon, talking about the "car of the future". The fast-food ad was for, I think, Wimpeys(?) - again, he was dressed up as Avon. I can't remember whether I got those ads on the first Horizon Charity tape, or whether they were stuck on the end of one of my numerous tape-trades. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:58:10 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <886327224.2023461.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No fair, Now Lisa is saying really interesting things that I can't understand. Give us a web reference so we can look up the meaning of all these acronyms at least. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:45:41 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <886327221.2023445.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Adam > Does anyone here know about the Myers-Briggs personality preference theory, > which divides humans into 16 different types of people, and 4 different > temperaments? Well, let me suggest that Blake's 7 is the classic example of > character's Myers-Briggs temperaments. Anyway, I've written a lot more about this and I plan to > put something together for an in-depth analysis of the Blake's 7 characters > and their relationships with one another. Feel free to write me if you > would like to discuss it. me, me, me. This is just the kind of thing I'm interested in. I think it is one of the elusive 'keys' to why B7 is so fascinating. I've said this before - the band of friends, the contrasting types, very satisfying. I started this note to Adam, but I'll post it to Lysator, because I would imagine there are quite a few who would be interested enough to discuss this. Alison PS - I'm quite ignorant about psychology, but what is the relationship between Myers-Briggs and the Minnesota Multiphasic test? (probably spelled wrong) My sister is a psychologist and she 'did' that test on me, and then the computer bombed out and ate my results. Hmm... Come to think of it, is that a comment on my answers? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 04:24:02 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980201042357.006d0d34@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alison Page wrote: >Now Lisa is saying really interesting things that I can't understand. >Give us a web reference so we can look up the meaning of all these >acronyms at least. Try the following: http://www.worklife.com/faq-mbti.html for a brief overview of the Myers-Briggs system. http://sacam.oren.ortn.edu/~jabutt/profiles/profiles.html for some descriptive profiles of the types. http://www.enteract.com/~jwalz/Jung/mbti.html for an online version of the Keirsy Temperament Sorter, a quick test you can take to estimate your own type. -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:52:40 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns... Message-ID: <886327223.2023458.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Alex I nearly repeated all of this with various LOLs and so-on, but thought I'd better not. Here are my favourite bits. > Avon: Hallmark Cards > > Avon: When you're as cold and calculating as I am, people sometimes don't > believe you (stop to shoot someone) when you try to say you're sorry. > (shoot two more troopers). That's why I depend on Hallmark Cards (punch > woman in stomach, poke man in eye). The right card for every occasion. > Orac, teleport now. LOL. I love 'Orac teleport now' > Vila: Locksmiths > > Quick, convenient service, at a reasonable price. (Vila gets in and drives > off without paying). Haw haw > Dayna: Self Defense Courses > (Fade to black, sound of shots. Then cut > back to Dayna, standing amidst a pile of dead and wounded troopers. Dayna > winks.) Tee hee > Slave and Orac: Triple A > Slave: I'm most terribly sorry. > Orac: Oh, do be quiet. This is all smashing Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:26:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] zines for Deliverance Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 My husband is going to the US next week and hopes to pick up some of the zines that have been requested for Deliverance. Any that he gets on this trip will be cheaper than my normal price as we'll be paying US postage rather than overseas rates. Any orders that reach me by Thursday 5 Jan have a fair chance of being picked up this trip. Any Deliverance orders that reach me after this time will be at the normal price (unless I get enough orders to get into the bulk air mail rates). To put this in perspective, you're likely to save 2 or 3 pounds on a typical large zine like Gambit or Southern Seven. (on lighter zines, the saving is less) In other words, if you're going to be at Deliverance (or possibly Neutral Zone), let me know which American zines you want *now*. Judith PS. I won't take orders for 'Different Destinies' for Deliverance. That one definately breaks their guidelines. PPS. Does anyone without web acess want me to post a price list? (I can't work out a price here and now for ones brought over for the con, but I can tell you what the normal prices are.) I can get all issues of Gambit, Southern Seven, Southern Comfort, Bizzaro, Dark Fantasies, The Other Side, Last Stand at the Edge of the World, Shadow at the Edge, Blake's Doubles, Destiny, Probability Square, Rebel Destinies, Rebel Desires, Straight Blakes #3, Southern Lights, Southern Lights Specials, Deadlier Than the Male, Serrated Seven and Probability Square. Some of these are gen, some slash. There's more details on the web page for most of these zines. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:56:04 -0800 From: "J. I. Horner" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re:[B7L]UK Mag Watch Message-ID: <34D4E164.486A@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the February edition of 'PC Format' there is an interview with Paul Darrow. It covers a lot of his current and recent work including Sevenfold Crown, 'Guards, guards' and the PC game - The Eye. I would have missed it as the interview is not publicized on the cover, but my husband happens to be a regular reader and pointed it out this morning. Julie Horner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 03:21:35 +1100 From: Fran Myers To: B7 Subject: [B7L] B7 ads Message-ID: <34D4A10F.3905@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tarrant is absolutely perfect for a toothpaste ad. Or a perm? Or an exercise machine for producing perfect buns? Fran ------------------------------ Date: 01 Feb 1998 17:26:26 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: pussnboots@geocities.com Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Thomas Covenant Message-ID: Pat Patera writes: > Dune went to 9 books?! No. Herbert died while writing number seven. And unlike Hubbard, death actually made him *stop* writing. -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se This is between me and the vegetable! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:17:33 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: FW: [B7L] Blake and manipulation Message-ID: <01BD2F2E.DF284000@host5-99-44-3.btinternet.com> Sue wrote: > The Freedom for Men bit is vehement and about the >Federation. Then Blake immediately backs off and says "You asked me what I >plan to do. What you do is up to yourselves." So he's not making a >judgment about whatever they plan to do. When he says "you don't really >believe that" to Avon, IMO, it's more of a challenge to Avon's myopia... >like if a some independently wealthy guy was to say to me "Everyone has >the same chance to buy a Ferrari as I have" I might question his grasp >of fiscal relaity, without it being a moral judgment. Just as valid an interpretation as any other. Though I still think "You don't really believe that" is taking a bit of a dig. 8-) > If I can go back to your original point, that the excess >manipulation by Blake in fan fic is a result of its subtlety on the show, >compared to Avon's blatant manipulation, combined with a penchant on >Blake's part to become morally indignant...I don't know. In part, I guess >so, and yet the theory doesn't seem to cover the whole question. The >equation of subtle + expressing aversion to activity = stories >highlighting activity, doesn't hold up in other circumstances. So I guess I'm back at the double standard >thing. Oh, definitely, there are double standards. I don't think too many people recognise Judith Seaman's Blake, for instance. By "excess manipulation", do you mean that there are a disproportionate number of fanfic stories where Blake is manipulative cf instances of manipulation in the series? Or do you mean that the degree of manipulation is excessive when it occurs? I've certainly seen some examples of the latter, but the former is more open to interpretation. As you said earlier, Blake's manipulativeness doesn't exactly jump out of the screen at you, and I've had some very long discussions in the past about exactly what is and isn't manipulation 8-) > On the other other hand, when reading in other fandoms I've also >seen a lot of interest in manipulation as a theme, whether it seems >inherent to the universe or not. So maybe it's one of those ideas that's >big with fan writers regardless of canon...like slash. I can't think of >another example. This I do agree with - Carnell or other psychostrategists crop up in an awful lot of fiction, and I think they'd appear even more if more people felt confident about writing those sort of thought processes! I couldn't write anything convoluted if I tried.... Louise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:56:54 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Ad Campaigns... Message-ID: <19980201.085259.15271.1.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> Alex! How wonderful! What a creative imagination you have. Jenna, perhaps, for Boeing? I can see her in a "fly the friendly skies with United," type add. Zen debating with Bill gates would be cute. Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:56:54 EST From: penny_kjelgaard@juno.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: LDS Message-ID: <19980201.085259.15271.2.Penny_Kjelgaard@juno.com> LDS= The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more commonly called "Mormons." Mormon was a nickname given to the early church membersas an insult by those the mobs who chased them from state to state. It was because of their belief in the Book of Mormon. Penny _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 01 Feb 1998 18:10:25 +0100 From: Calle Dybedahl To: adering@ziplink.net (Alex Dering) Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L]: random thoughts and such from the week. Message-ID: adering@ziplink.net (Alex Dering) writes: > Can anyone recommend any good science fiction novels? Anything at all by Ian McDonald (well, maybe not "Out On Blue Six"). In particular "Desolation Road" and "Necroville". -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se This is between me and the vegetable! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:31:06 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: "B7" Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 ads Message-Id: <199802011832.MAA02925@pemberton.magnolia.net> Fran said: >Tarrant is absolutely perfect for a toothpaste ad. Oh, yes, I could go for that. He does have awfully nice teeth. The FSA must have a good dental plan. >Or a perm? He and Blake could do this together--to appeal to the younger generation and the (harumph) more mature gentlemen. Or maybe push those special drying lamps they used to use for curly hair, that kept it from frizzing. I spent many an hour under those in the perm days, reading Playgirl... >Or an exercise machine for producing perfect buns? Or a "bulk-up" liquid protein concoction? He and Cally both could use those (when she's not busy with Psychic Hotline, of course). Lorna B. "You ever flown a flying saucer? After that, sex seems trite." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:43:34 GMT From: Iain Coleman To: blake7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 ads Message-Id: <10544.9802011843@bsauasb.nerc-bas.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: zh85JqXpD8zq1Z0IvSrlgw== Zen: "Nobody likes to think about being eaten away by ill-defined fluid particles. But with the Dorian Life Assurrance Plan, I know that if the worst should happen, my crew-members won't be left stranded. There's no medical, and no salesmen will show up at your door: though a federation boarding party will be available should you desire it." Iain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 18:57:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Miscellaneous replies Message-Id: <199802011902.TAA07425@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alex, loved your ads with the B7 characters promoting this'n'that. Why not send it to Horizon or Altazine? I bet fans who aren't online would get a kick out of it too. Reuben, the real ads with Paul Darrow and others can be seen on one of the Horizon charity tapes, which I think are still available. They also have bits and pieces of the actors' other roles, appearances on talk shows, and that sort of thing. I enjoyed them. And about this vilification thing-- again, I'm with Patti on this one. I just don't understand why liking one character best means you have to dislike any of the others. What I find especially disturbing is when vilification of a character extends to vilification of that character's fans. It gives me a very bad impression of the character of the vilifier. And surely it's not surprising that people who have been personally attacked do tend to take it personally. In some cases perhaps the insults are intended as a joke, but slinging insults in fun is something that should be limited strictly to one's close friends, and even then it's risky, IMO. Sarah Thompson a fan of (a) Avon and (b) Tarrant, who dislikes being sneered at for either reason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:00:53 -0000 From: Louise Rutter To: "'B7 Lysator'" Subject: RE: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods Message-ID: <01BD2F43.D334A940@host5-99-44-176.btinternet.com> Narrelle said: >and Dayna could well be Diana. I don't think the name similarity is much of a coincidence - virgin huntress and all that. Tom Forsyth. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:46:34 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Time Squad 1/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII These comments on "Time Squad" are drawn from Rallying Call issue 16 (January 1996) and appear in their original version at http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/rc16.html for now. Slip sliding away: Paul Darrow like to tell the story of the first scene he did (in filming order) on the series. It was "Time Squad," when he and Gareth (or was it Michael?) were standing on a ridge in the quarry and one of them started to slip...slip...slowly down the side...while continuing on with the dialogue as if nothing was happening. Jenna for MVP: She pilots the ship, teaches them how to pilot it, disconnects the power cable, whups the nasty aliens; she's brave, capable, tough, independent, and has a sense of humor...she's too good for the rest of them. If only they'd let her develop as she began, she and Blake could've been the best thing after Mrs. Peel and Steed and before Scully and Mulder. The scenes in the first season where the two of them are alone on the flight deck discussing what's to be done are among my favorites. Jenna also is, IMO, one of the chief contributors to the esprit de corps of the early crew. She's the one who smiles when Vila is less than enthusiastic about going to Saurian Major, his nervousness about the web, and his unreadiness before teleporting in SLD. Without her (and Gan), some of the scenes would tear the group apart rather than bringing them together. In some respects, I think Jenna's development was sacrificed for Avon's: Jenna might've been allowed to grow in the same direction--more conflict with Blake, more sharp lines, more action--but those tasks were given to Avon (please note: this is a comment on the writing, not on the character). Of course, the fact that he is around sort of implies that they couldn't conceive of a man and woman having the sort of relationship B&A do, with or without sexual attraction as well. Jenna was also sacrificed for Blake's development as well: compare her knowledge of the ship and, especially, cryogenic procedure in "Time Squad" with her lack of knowledge of in "Killer." In "Time Squad," Terry Nation gave her appropriate background knowledge, not to mention a formidable combat ability, where Robert Holmes makes her ignorant and a bit of a nag. Not that Jenna is free of feminine stereotypes at the start. I assume her reaction to Cally is supposed to be jealousy over Blake. I prefer to think, however, there's also a measure of xenaphobia just because Cally is an interloper. Jenna has spent 4 or months with this group, she knows how far to trust them, and they've finally begun to function as a cohesive team. Cally's an unknown element who could disrupt that and lessen their chances for survival. Stayed up late, danced a little longer: In this and Breakdown, we have the crew deciding to stay with Blake. More on Avon and Vila then since that's when they talk about it. Here it's Gan, Jenna, and Cally. Jenna accepts Gan's excuse ("they'd catch up with you eventually") but is it true? A split of the treasury would surely buy a lot of freedom. IMO, Jenna's got some rebel inclinations of her own, plus a nice new ship to fly, and some attraction to Blake. Gan says he has to be around others he can trust (I think that's a bit lame: plenty of people can't defend themselves in a fight and manage to survive without running in a gang) but it's important to him. Cally says she can't go back to Auron because she failed and accepts Blake's offer to stay on. Since she shares his political views (hey, I wonder if she's heard of him?) she has an excellent reason to stay. Where was I going with this...Oh, yeah. Having read so many times "Avon stays for his own reasons" with the implication that the others were either under some sort of Svengali-like influence or just stayed from inertia, I find this point very important: each of the crew decides for his or her own adult self, for his/her own reasons to stay with Blake that are compelling to him/her. (Please note this is a comment on fan writing and fan debate, not an attack on the character). Missing time: How long have they been on the ship learning to fly it manually? By "minor irritation" is Blake referring just to the London and Cygnus Alpha or something else they've done and we didn't see? We start a conflagration that's cause for alarm: Excellent B&A sparkage! Whoo! First there's the great snarl and shout fest on the flight deck.I'm on Avon's side--if Blake agreed to a discussion, there should've been one before setting course, although I understand why Blake would prefer it the other way, to talk while they travel. It seems to me, with this being their first adventure as a team, that Blake is unsure of himself. It's been at least 4 years since the last time he did this (and look how that one turned out 8-) and the escape attempt on the London was both unlike what they're trying now and less than a total success. He's also unused to leading a group of people who aren't as committed to the project as he is. Blake's in a tough position here and the last thing he needs is a pain in the ass (if you've ever tried to organize anything, you know what I mean 8-), but Blake handles him beautifully. I especially like the moment in the teleport when Avon is hesitating and Blake looks like he's about to laugh, like Avon doesn't want to go but can't think of an excuse and Blake knows exactly what's going through his mind. Blake may as unsure of the others as is he of himself, how well they, untrained and untested as a fighting unit, will react during their first mission. The outcome will determine everything--whether they go on at all. Oh, one other B&A moment I love: Blake's voice coming through the communicator: "Then you'll have to." So Avon does. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html "And so you see, Simon and Simon were not brothers in real life, only on television." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:47:21 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII History (Saurian) Major: How does Blake know so much about SM and do you get the feeling it might be personal? There's something about the way he describes it all that sounds like it's more to him than just another example of typical Federation efficiency. Maybe he knew some of the rebels? Or helped design the complex and was present at the time of the butchery and resettlement? That would explain his knowledge of the complex, its location, its importance, the history of the rebels, and his familiarly with the carnivorous plantlife. Maybe he witnessed the events he relates and they're what made him rebel in the first place? Blake also shows some knowledge of spacecraft design ("You don't put circuit tracers in an unmanned craft") as do both Jenna and Avon. Apparently Gan and Vila are the only ones whose professions haven't included a course in Spaceship Maintenance 101. We're not singing "Row, Row, Row Your Boat": Just where does a dome- dwelling engineering type learn to build a camp fire out of rocks and sand? I have 3 theories: Ushton taught him a lot of outdoor survival skills on Exbar; he lived outside the domes when "hunted and outlawed;" he has some sort of training, probably military, that involved learning to survive in hostile environments. "Jenna will teleport us:" There are a lot of lines and looks that baffle me. This used to be one of them. Why does Avon glare at Blake. Maybe he thinks Blake is questioning his handling of the teleport earlier and accusing him of muffing it or deliberately breaking it? I don't think so. I think Avon wants Blake to try to coax him so Avon will be in the position of granting Blake a favor. Instead, Blake tells him they're going without waiting for Avon's express consent. [I wrote this in response to something specific but can't remember what.] Kali?: I don't know enough about Hinduism to know but do you think Cally, in her warrior persona, was named for Kali? Isn't Kali a warrior goddess? Cally, like all the women regulars, starts out strong: she can fight, she's got guts, she has her own purpose. But the weaknesses start almost immediately (in the next episode)...All of the characters have weaknesses, of course, bless 'em, but Cally's is unique in the number of times it endangers the crew. ..but more about the Curse of Telepathy when we get to "The Web." Communications: What an odd choice. Presumably it was because of her telepathic abilities? Like she could beam a message to rebels in the field? It's sort of a pity she wasn't given something more warlike. How long was she on Saurian Major? How long has it been since the "typical efficiency" and then the death of the guerrillas? How long has she been planning her suicide mission? Blake and Cally: I like the fight scene because Blake fights her the same way I think he would fight a guy. I notice she's trying to impress him ("I would not have died alone"). He's also the only one she telepaths to. Somewhere I have a list of who Cally sends to and I'm pretty sure that Blake was at the top. Hobbies? What is Blake doing while talking to Cally at the end of TS? And did he pick up any lockpicking tips from watching Vila so intently on Saurian Major and Centero? Offshore dumping: Is it right or wrong or somewhere between to dump the capsule in deep space. If they'd been able to teleport back, would he have taken the capsule onboard to begin with? Dumping it at the end saves the Liberator crew from further danger but does it destroy the chances of the capsule reaching a planet? If all of the eggs are homicidal maniacs, is dumping or destroying the better option? And what is with Jenna's "Thanks a lot?" Tort liability: In most countries, one is not required to render aid to those in distress (France has a Good Samaritan statute but most places don't). If rescue is undertaken, the Good Samaritan risks tort liability if rescue is abandoned and leaves the rescuee in a worse position than before. I'm not sure if there's liability if rescue is successful but the rescuee dies anyway. No doubt case law varies... Gan Ltd: The conversation with Jenna in TS is sort of odd. He starts off by saying he can't be on his own. When she asks why, he tells the story about killing a guard. He doesn't answer the question, he doesn't mention the limiter. But the end shot of the scene is a close up of it sticking out his skull (had they stayed on Cygnus, he could've doubled as a lightning rod, perhaps). It's sort of implied that a limiter is a standard or at least well-known punishment for murder. Maybe he was sent to CA for other reasons. [My top reason for sending him to a prison planet: bad acting. Between TS and "Breakdown," I wonder that he was around long enough to die in "Pressure Point." Yeesh. Couldn't they develop a limiter to correct that.] Dr. Gan. Where and why did Gan find time to experiment with the first aid kit? I like it, I like Gan as medic better than Cally, I think it makes more sense for his character to take on a healing role. Things that get on my nerves and Bloopers: Jenna running all the way across the deck to tell Gan she's injured (stationary cameras are a bitch); Jenna's gun blinking on and off as she tiptoes down the corridor; "You don't sound so sure of that" (he doesn't sound unsure to me, in fact, I get no vibes from Avon's line at all); Jenna's hit on back but grabs her arms and the bruise is on her arm. Pass the Who Hash: The alien plantlife of Saurian Major looks like something from Dr. Seuss but like the reddish tint. Roads not taken: Gan's comment about someone stopping Zen from helping them made me think, the first time I saw the episode, that there might be someone hiding on board and observing the crew. Straight on till dawn: Blake sets course for Centero immediately so this has clearly been on his mind for awhile: he has an agenda and it involves a cipher machine. Is he already thinking about getting information on Central Control? Favorite lines/scenes: GAN: Yes, our freedom. For a clever man you're not very bright. Deaf, dumb and blind how are they going to catch us? AVON: I'm sure Blake will manage it somehow. Blake napping on the flight deck. JENNA: Getting nervous? VILA: No, I've been nervous all along. AVON: Are you sure you can trust me? BLAKE: For as long as we're useful to each other. BLAKE: Then you'll have to. (It's the power of that voice coming through the communicator. Yowza.) BLAKE: I'm breathless with anticipation. VILA: You know, with hands like that and a decent upbringing, he might have made a respectable pick pocket. CALLY: There will be companions for my death. VILA: I plan to live forever. Or die trying. VILA: We could be up to our armpits in homicidal maniacs within the hour. AVON: You're not counting that machine as a member of the crew. BLAKE: Oh, what do you say to that Zen? ZEN: Please state course and speed. BLAKE: Very diplomatic. Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html "And so you see, Simon and Simon were not brothers in real life, only on television." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:53:12 -0500 (EST) From: NWOutsider To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] web page update Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The caption contest has been updated. This month's picture is our favorite cult leader, Vargas. All of the past caption pages have been reorganized: each one is on its own page so they will load faster, and you can go backwards and forwards using the links at the top and bottom of each page. Go to http://www.bgsu.edu/ ~sclerc/CapCon.html to begin. Episode comments for "Gambit" and "The Keeper" are also up (http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/eps.html). The utterly fabulous Recurring Themes in Fan Fiction has been overhauled. It's now in digestible morsels of 5K-14K each. Fun, informative, and now less filling! Start at http://www.bgsu.edu/ ~sclerc/Themes.html or my main page (url in the sig). Sue sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html "And so you see, Simon and Simon were not brothers in real life, only on television." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:44:33 -0000 From: "Heather Smith" To: "Blake's 7" Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 as the Norse gods Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Narrelle said: > >and Dayna could well be Diana. Tom replied: > I don't think the name similarity is much of a coincidence - virgin huntress and >all that. Well.......We never did assertain exactly how platonic her relationship with Justin was the first time round..... Heather 'can't think of a clever quote to go here' Smith 'There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish' -The fourth Doctor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:44:41 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 Message-ID: <886369585.2020098.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh of course, Sue is right, Cally = Kali. And as Louise says, Dayna = Diana. This must mean that Jenna = Juno. After all she is almost the definition of the physical type known as Junoesque. Very queenly. Hmm.. perhaps they had given this naming scheme up by the time they got to Soolin, or am I missing something obvious? Personally I think they could have named her after the Amazon Queen - what was her name? (looks it up) Hypolita. Nothing like Soolin. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:11:13 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Ad Campaigns Message-ID: <34D4F301.5AAC@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex D's B7 commercials are the funniest thing to land on this list all year. I, too, would love to ROFL over each one individually. Ian's Zen ad was great, too. Jenna: Clairol Living Color VO: "Does she or doesn't she?" VID: Jenna with Riker whispering in her ear Jenna in tete a tete with Avon Jenna cozily close to Blake Jenna playing Queen to hairy barbarian Jenna coyly flirting with Amagon pirate Jenna joking with young doc from XK-47 Jenna haughtily tosses golden mane and says: "If I have but one life to live, let me live it as a blonde!" Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:26:51 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Time Squad 2/2 Message-ID: <$y1$9RAraP10Ew1c@jajones.demon.co.uk> In message , NWOutsider writes Nice essay, Sue. Thanks for posting it. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:55:45 -0500 From: DJ Wight To: B7Lysator Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <199802012255_MC2-3184-2371@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On January 31st Adam L. Fuller wrote: >> Does anyone here know about the Myers-Briggs personality preference >> theory, And Lisa Williams replied: > I think most fandoms, this one included, have extensively Myers-Briggsed > their characters in recent years. It's hard to resist, and such fun to > argue over who is which type. > So -- which side of the INTJ vs. INTP camp do you fall into for Avon? > Personally, I place him as an INTP who wants people to think he's an INTJ. > Blake, probably an ENFJ. And you're right; they're pretty typical of NT-NF > conflicts. (I'm a strong INTJ myself, and NFs drive me crazy even when I > like them.) > I haven't thought about the others as much. Agree that Tarrant, Dayna, and > Soolin have SP written all over them, though Dayna's a stronger P than the > other two. Tarrant's probably ESTP, your typical man-of-action type. > Soolin, probably ISTP. Dayna's an F; I don't get a strong sense of > polarization on the I-E scale from her, but probably closer to ISFP than > ESFP. Vila's more a typical ESFP. Cally, maybe an INFJ? Jenna, another ESTP > or ISTP, not sure which. > I don't see Servalan as an SP temperament, though. Closer to an SJ, with > that urge to control and regulate things, but she's got a big dose of NT as > well. In fact, I'd probably place her as an ENTJ, not too strongly > polarized on the S-N scale, so having some crossover with the ESTJ. I'm not familiar with the Idealist/Rational/Artisan/Guardian classifications, possibly due to my experience being more with Jungian typology than MBTI as such, and I'd hesitate to map the conflicts among characters based solely on their differing temperamental types - but would agree the B7 crew included some of the most strongly expressed types ever to be represented in televised sf or action-adventure, and that preference theory is a useful way of making sense of them, and a lot of the ways they do and don't get along together. Having missed out on previous discussions of who might be what, FWIW here's where I read them: Avon: INTP. I agree he'd like people to think he's an INTJ... I suspect he believes it himself. But am I alone in suspecting he *isn't* a particularly introspective character? Condensing fast from references: "At their best, people with INTP preferences are independent problem-solvers who excel at providing a detached, concise analysis of an idea or situation. ...approach almost everything with scepticism, forming their own opinions and standards, and apply these standards rigorously to themselves. They highly value intelligence and competence...quickly see inconsistencies and illogicality and enjoy taking apart and reworking ideas. INTPs are usually quiet and reserved though they can be talkative in areas where they are especially knowledgeable. Unless their work requires action, they are more interested in the challenge of finding solutions than in putting them to practical use. *They prefer not to organize people or situations.* (Asterisks mine.) INTPs are tolerant of a wide range of behaviour, arguing and raising issues only when they believe it is reasonable to do so. This flexibility disappears, however, when their ruling principles are challenged; then they stop adapting. Others usually see INTPs as quiet, contained, calm and detached observers, independent and valuing autonomy." Add that when frustrated they can become cynical, negative, sarcastic, destructively critical, self-isolating, and argumentative, and under stress "may erupt outwardly in inappropriate displays of emotion...quite unnerving to others, and embarrassing to the usually calm and controlled INTP." Sounds like our man to me. Blake: ENTJ. ENFJ isn't impossible, I'd put him close to the line between thinking and feeling types - at his best he does show the compassion, loyalty, and idealistic warmth that go with the ENFJ package - but I come down on the 'thinking' side of it for three reasons. First, his style in leadership. Referencing again, "People with ENTJ preferences are natural leaders and organization builders. ... They readily see illogical and inefficient procedures and feel a strong urge to correct them---to organize people and situations to get them moving in the right direction. ... Action-oriented, energetic approach, take charge quickly, deal directly with problems, direct, challenging and decisive, tough when necessary," seems to fit him better than the more easy-going, people-oriented ENFJ style. Second, his apparently wide-ranging curiosity, and the way it's expressed - more often than not, when he and Avon are figuring things out together. "Their (ENTJs) love of ideas can pull them into wide-ranging Intuitive exploration and discussions. Their verbal fluency, decisiveness, self-confidence, and urge to organize others can overpower people at times...objective, fair, and stimulating." Third, because I don't think we ever see him react in a personally condemning way, when he's upset with his companions' contrary points of view - again Avon's, more often than not. My own experience with people I know as strong feeling types, is that when they're faced with attitudes or opinions they can't emotionally support, they tend to move at high speed from reaction to attack. Bluntly, offend their sensibilities and they will go apeshit all over you.... This isn't something I see in the character. Nothing of which invalidates the observation that his disagreements with Avon fit the NT-NF pattern - they often do - I'd just call it more a case of an extreme NT in conflict with a much more moderate one. Vila: ESFP, maxed out on all dimensions! In him we have the extraverted feeling type's hair-trigger emotional sensitivity and responsiveness at its most extreme, and by times its scatterbrained suggestibility. "ESFPs live in the moment and find enjoyment in people, food, clothes, animals, the natural world, and activities. They seldom let rules interfere with their lives...generous, optimistic and persuasive, warm and sympathetic. ...keen observers of human behaviour, they seem to sense what is happening with other people and respond quickly to their practical needs. They are flexible, adaptable, congenial, and easy-going...seldom plan ahead, trusting their ability to respond in the moment and deal effectively with whatever presents itself. They hate structure and routine and will generally find ways to get around it." Add the tendency of an extreme sensing type to accept as factual anything presented to him as fact, and the difficulties they may have in seeing past fragmented evidence to larger underlying patterns, and it seems to fit. Jenna: tentatively ESFP. Could say ISTP, because she's able to step back and play the detached observer, and that's an ISTP quality, but for me, it tends to look learned. A way she resents having to be, when she thinks about it. That and her generally seeming more focused on getting results (ESTP bias) than on understanding how and why things work, are what tip the balance for me. In either case, practical, realistic, and adaptable, and usually good with mechanical things. Cally: tentatively INFP. Condensing fast again: "Quiet observers, idealistic, loyal. Important that outer life be congruent with inner values. Curious, quick to see possibilities, often serve as catalysts...adaptable, flexible, and accepting unless a value is threatened. Want to understand people and ways of fulfilling human potential." Gan: ESFJ. Condensing again: "Warmhearted... conscientious, born co-operators, active committee members. Need harmony and may be good at creating it. Always doing something nice for someone...main interest is in things that directly and visibly affect people's lives." Dayna: ENFP or ESFP. Close to the line on S/N, but I'd say a weak intuitive because she always moves readily beyond the immediate evidence of what's going on, to see what stronger N-types are talking about when they start extrapolating larger patterns from incomplete evidence. For the same reason, she might be borderline F/T as well. Soolin: ISF/TP. There's a line in "Boundaries of the Soul" that I can't read without thinking of Soolin: "When we meet the introverted feeling type, we face someone who is silent, inaccessible, hard to understand... Such people neither shine nor reveal themselves." It doesn't seem quite on target, because she's often the classic ISTP 'cool onlooker', quietly observing and analyzing, curious in a detached way, but for me it picks up an element of sympathy that we only rarely see in her, as the passage goes on, "They are capable of great tenderness where they recognize a need, but no one ever hears of their generous, even sacrificial, acts." Hence the F/T cop-out. Tarrant: ESTP. "Action-oriented, pragmatic, resourceful, and realistic...*embrace risk* (Asterisks mine, again.) take charge readily in crises, have a direct and assertive style, move along the most expedient route, seek action and immediate results." Servalan: ENTJ or ESTJ. Strong on structure and control in the world around her, logical, organized, objective and decisive. Most of the time she seems more intuitive than restricted to sensory evidence, a strategic thinker able to see through all the implications of her own and others' manoeuvering - but under pressure she tends to narrow her focus sharply to what's actual and provable. Returning to Adam's post, > I plan to put something together for an in-depth analysis > of the Blake's 7 characters and their relationships with > one another. Feel free to write me if you would like to discuss it. I'd be interested in reading this, when you're ready to release it! --DJ angnak@compuserve.com INTP = 1-3% of the population, for which the remainder may be thankful! -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #32 *************************************