From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #321 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/321 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 321 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Travis, etc. Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics [B7L] Re: Casting Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Re: [B7L] Re: Casting FW: [B7L] Travis has three faces RE: [B7L] RPG Re: [B7L] RPG Re: [B7L] RPG [B7L] zine prices [B7L] Space Fall [B7L] OT: ah been cut off from worl Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:55:49 -0000 From: "Jenni -Alison" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis, etc. Message-Id: <199812292347.AAA02564@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil wrote: > Iasked who, not why. The why is obvious. If Servalan seized power during the crisis of Star One, which was somewhat unanticipated, she may have leapt before she was ready. Her influence might well have extended far enough to knock out the influential members of the high council, but could she really have had enough people in place to kill off all bureaucrats - councilors in waiting ready to fill the old members shoes when time allowed? With the unexpectedly high losses of troops and ships in the conflict with the Andromedans her hold on power could well have been tenuous at best. I suggest that she may have had the slenderest of holds on power, and the frequency with which she was forced to leave the centre of power, combined possibly with the abortive coup lead by Sula, destabilised her sufficiently that the remaining support group centred around the ex-councillors combined could elevate and appoint new Councillors, call on political or familial loyalties within the military (may commanders could well be family members for high placed political Alphas) and declare Servalan a traitor while she was off on a mission with some of her most loyal officers. After all, Travis was so much better than what she had left, and he didn't turn out that effective, did he? Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:17:28 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Message-ID: <003701be3399$72dab020$fc1aac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Because of the spiders, it was only safe to harvest kairopan for the seven >days after the vernal equinox. The plan was to steal the kairopan when it was >in transport. The impression the episode gives is that the heist would have >succeeded if Tarrant hadn't been up against someone who knew him so >well--Jarvik. Tarrant easily outwits a standard Federation trap early in the >episode. Tarrant's military background gave him an edge in that case. His >military background--most specifically the time he served under Jarvik--worked >against him later. The trouble with 'Harvest' is it's too concerned with ranting from a soapbox and not nearly concerned enough with making sense. The central thrust of Ben Steed's luddite tirade is that we poor human beings are degraded, deluded and dehumanised by the relentless march of technological progress. Hence we get Jarvik, who as a 'real man' is ultimately nothing more than an untypically rugged Mary Sue. He proves he's a bona fide Ubermensch by lobotomising a couple of troopers, fooling Tarrant and capturing the Liberator with a ruse the Brady Bunch could see through, and giving Servalan the good hard shagging she's been needing for years. Rambo's almost a pinko drip by comparison. And it all hangs on a plot that doesn't bear examination. All that technology that Jarviks rails against would make short work of any marauding spiders. Or since the kairopan (just what was it valuable for anyway?) simply lies around on the surface, it could be collected by robots. I don't really know much about Ben Steed, but he comes across as a closet fantasy-monger who thinks SF falls under the same umbrella. And why does he always have to peddle his misogyny in every episode he writes? He's worse than Robert Holmes and his homophobia. Neil (aka Rik) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:49:03 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' Message-ID: <003601be3399$7209a480$fc1aac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Can I be Vyvyan, then? Oi, no! Bagsy me for Vyvyan. Actually I'm more of a Rik, and I'm only *calling* myself Neil to *confuse* you and it actually worked rather well didn't it, which is really pretty 'anarchic' when you think about it. > >>Disagree completely. Servalan believed in the Federation. > >She tried to rip them off in 'Deliverance'/'Orac' and 'Weapon', screwed >them over to save her own skin in 'Pressure Point', *and* overthrew them >at her earliest viable opportunity in 'Star One'. She may well have >believed in *Servalan's Federation* (cf. Dave Barry, beating Terry >Pratchett to the punch, I think - and I paraphrase: 'Power to the >People: i.e. Power to Me and a Few of My Friends Who Know What's Good >For The People') but inasmuch as loyalty to the Federation means >respecting/obeying its precedents...No. Servalan is an Eva Peron who did >not have the misfortune to die at 33. >Or was that Jesus? > Servalan believed in the Federation, just as Hitler believed in Germany. When you know what's good for everyone else, you're driven by something far higher and nobler than mere personal ambition. Just look at Blake. For Servalan, power was a means to an end. And an end which justified any means at that. >>Who the frag is frag, and if you revere Him so, why don't you capitalise >His name? Frag is shorthand for 'fragmentation'. As in grenade. It can also be regarded as a euphemism. > >>>Travis didn't want all that power, too complicated, messy. He wanted >>>*access* to all that power. He wanted Servalan to take control and >just >>>give him whatever he asked for (Ships to chase Blake. Guns to shoot >>>Blake. Knives to stab Blake). >> >>Nope, he wanted to take out Star One, let the Andromedans in, and wave >>bye-bye to the human race. Since he went to Star One believing he was >the >>only one knowing where it was, he had no reason to expect Blake to be >there. >>Ergo eliminating Blake had become a lesser priority. > >Aaah, I really would like to disagree with Neil here, but that's always >been my reading... Then you're right, aren't you... > >>Travis needed to believe that Servalan, along with >>the rest of the Federation, was corrupt beyond redemption. His offer >of >>Star One on Goth was his way of testing Servalan. The result ran >counter to >>his expectations but he went ahead anyway. > >Yes, no doubt in my mind, it *was* by way of testing Servalan, but I >don't imagine his reasoning was that *rational*. Whoever said it had to be? He was one poor mixed-up bunny by that stage, albeit the kind that bites people's heads off. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:07:01 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics Message-ID: <003801be3399$738288e0$fc1aac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenni Allison wrote: >If Servalan seized power during the crisis of Star One, which was somewhat >unanticipated, she may have leapt before she was ready. She knew Blake was looking for Star One, she'd be a right fool to believe that Travis might not have found it. So she had some forewarning that a crisis involving Star One was in the offing. By saying 'she may have leapt before she was ready', which suggests she had been planning a coup for some time. There's no real evidence for that, as I recall. In fact, her removal of the President and High Council seems to be motivated by her belief that *they* are the ones tinkering with Star One, so she was forced to stage a coup in order to save the Federation from this enemy within. On the other hand, that might just have been her excuse, though personally I don't think so. >Her influence might >well have extended far enough to knock out the influential members of the >high council, but could she really have had enough people in place to kill >off all bureaucrats - councilors in waiting ready to fill the old members >shoes when time allowed? Would she need to? Most of those scrambling up the ladder of power don't really care who's at top, they just want to make it to the next rung up. In fact, many would welcome a change of management - a whole brand new pair of shoes to lick. >With the unexpectedly high losses of troops and >ships in the conflict with the Andromedans her hold on power could well >have been tenuous at best. This was first mooted, I think, in 'Harvest' ("There isn't a Federation any more" - Tarrant), and things didn't seem to have got much better by 'Moloch'. >...the remaining support group centred >around the ex-councillors combined could elevate and appoint new >Councillors, call on political or familial loyalties within the military > and declare Servalan a traitor Quite possible. Although the magic words are never mentioned, I think the Federation was thrown into a state of civil war following the Andromedan invasion. Evidence is slender, though: - Chesku talked of "Earth and the Inner Planets being reunited", so presumably they had been divided for a while. Perhaps this was one of Servalan's few successes? Control of Earth would give her a considerable edge, if only psychological. - CA1 referred to a galactic rather than intergalactic war, possibly indicating galaxy-wide infighting. More likely a slip up by Roger Parkes, though. - Justin cited the rest of the research team on Bucol 2 being wiped out by an enemy gunship. If the enemy were alien, you'd think he might have mentioned that. But then again, perhaps not. One thing I do suspect strongly is that Servalan was not deposed by a military faction. The High Council was restored after she was deposed (which implies she dissolved the Council at some point after 'Rumours'), not replaced by a military government. Also, there is no mention of Space Command throughout the 4th Season, suggesting that the new civilian government was determined not to give the military the same kind of quasi-autonomy it had enjoyed in the pre-War days. Which endorses what Jenni suggests above, that familial and ideological loyalties ultimately took precedence over professional ones. Thank you, Jenni. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:07:01 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Post-War Politics Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-12-29 21:15:40 EST, Neil wrote: << One thing I do suspect strongly is that Servalan was not deposed by a military faction. The High Council was restored after she was deposed (which implies she dissolved the Council at some point after 'Rumours'), not replaced by a military government. Also, there is no mention of Space Command throughout the 4th Season, suggesting that the new civilian government was determined not to give the military the same kind of quasi-autonomy it had enjoyed in the pre-War days. Which endorses what Jenni suggests above, that familial and ideological loyalties ultimately took precedence over professional ones. >> This raises a question. In the fourth season, was it the Federation that was after the Scorpio crew or was it primarily Servalan/Sleer? She seemed to be behind the attempts to capture or kill them, and in episodes such as "Assassin," I got the impression that it was a personal vendetta, perhaps because they could identify her as Servalan. She either wanted them dead or under her control where they could don her no harm. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:14:51 -0500 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Casting Message-ID: <199812292215_MC2-6508-7110@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joanne replied: >Harriet said: >>If Basil is Krantor, can Manuel be Toise? >Can't see it myself (the ABC is repeating Fawlty >Towers on Saturday nights at the moment). How >about Sybil? Well, it's just a suggestion. Sybil and >Basil seem to be operating on roughly the same >planet, as do Krantor and Toise. Manuel might >be better off as the croupier. If anything, I'd have Sybil as the Croupier. Polly is Chenie, and I think the Major might be Docholli. The casting for Cevedic doesn't immediately strike me. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:18:36 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Message-ID: <31d2cce7.36899b8c@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-12-29 21:15:27 EST, Neil wrote: << And it all hangs on a plot that doesn't bear examination. All that technology that Jarviks rails against would make short work of any marauding spiders. Or since the kairopan (just what was it valuable for anyway?) simply lies around on the surface, it could be collected by robots. >> Perhaps the kairopan would be damaged by robots, or robots were too expensive. I remember an anecdote one of my history professors told. He was in Turkey. He saw a refridgerator unloaded off a ship ans several men picked it up and started carrying it down the road. He asked what was going on and was told that the fridge was being delivered to a town something like a hundred miles away. It was cheaper to hire several men to carry that fridge on foot than it was to get a truck. The Federation didn't seem to be particularly concerned about people's lives. As for the spiders, maybe they were as tough as cockroaches or something. For all our technology, there's not too much we can do about them. And perhaps the kairopan was essential to a manufacturing process or was refined into something else. Silver ore doesn't look like much either. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:31:17 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Message-ID: <19981230033118.5224.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain >The trouble with 'Harvest' is it's too concerned with ranting from a >soapbox and not nearly concerned enough with making sense. [snip] >And it all hangs on a plot that doesn't bear examination. All that >technology that Jarviks rails against would make short work of any >marauding spiders. Or since the kairopan (just what was it valuable >for anyway?) simply lies around on the surface, it could be collected >by robots. Thank you, Neil. Would it be better if I avoided that episode if it ever came my way? Or does it have to be seen to be believed? Mind you, the same writer was responsible for "Power", wasn't he, and I haven't seen that either. Which episode is worse? (You are at liberty to point to other episodes as being truly bad, if you wish.) Regards Joanne When you're seaching your soul, when you're searching for pleasure How often pain is all you'll find But when you're coasting along & nobody's trying too hard You can turn around and like where you are --The Sundays, When I'm Thinking About You ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:08:21 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Message-Id: <199812300404.WAA06563@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joanne MacQueen wrote: >Would it be better if I avoided that episode if it ever came my way? Or >does it have to be seen to be believed? Oh, you *have* to see "Harvest". It's one of the funniest episodes of the whole series. - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@rsc.raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:22:07 -0600 From: "Lorna B." To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Casting Message-Id: <199812300416.WAA21197@pemberton.magnolia.net> Harriet said: >If anything, I'd have Sybil as the Croupier. Polly is Chenie, and I think >the Major might be Docholli. The casting for Cevedic doesn't immediately >strike me. How about Terry the Cook? Or better still--O'Reilly the contractor. Competence was hardly his middle name either... Lorna B. "Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:59:13 +1030 From: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" To: Lysator List Subject: FW: [B7L] Travis has three faces Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain > -----Original Message----- > From: Judith Proctor [SMTP:Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Monday, 14 December 1998 3:56 > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] Travis has three faces > > > > >> 1980 Blake's 7 annual, published by IPC. > >> Why is Travis a guy with a goatee and no obvious cybernetic attachments? > > >Probably because the artists lived overseas and had hardly any reference > >pictures. You'll find the same few character costumes crop up again and > again, > >even when they were no longer being worn on screen. > >I'd bet that they simply didn't known what he looked like. (They usually > get > >his rank wrong in the annuals) > >Judith > > > So, is this the answer? Poor source material? Does anyone know who the artist > was? > > Homophobic or not, Robert Holmes was still The Man! A Holmes script is > readily identifiable through equal parts Drama and Sadism. > > What about the film clip of "Learning to Fly"? The one with the guy reaping a > field and then jumping off a cliff with a couple of feathers? Couldn't escape > it in 1988! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:24:41 +1030 From: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" To: "'Dangermouse'" , lysator Subject: RE: [B7L] RPG Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain > ---------- > > From: calle@lysator.liu.se > > Unless it's a very, *very* strange campaign, Orac absolutely should > > not be a player character. > Dangermouse > Hm. > > Again, I could see him work in Paranoia... > > > I like Paranoia. My players are undecided. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:02:36 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: Cc: Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG Message-Id: <199812301315.NAA08190@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: ARBoddy@aol.com > > Again, I could see him work in Paranoia... > > As a PC? He'd be rather hampered, wouldn't he? No functional > mobility, and given the nature of the computers with which he'd have > to interact, the player would be making insanity rolls every few > minutes. [Insert smiley here] Still, it'd be a challenge. > As an NPC, though, it'd be fun, since we all know what the > Computer's reaction would be. Absolutely, which is mainly what I meant. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 13:01:43 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001" , "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG Message-Id: <199812301315.NAA08187@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Dunne, Martin Lydon - DUNML001 > I like Paranoia. My players are undecided. Yeah, it's generally better for the GM - who at least gets to see how funny the plot can be... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:10:41 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Space City cc: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] zine prices Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII As of 10 January the prices of all Linda Knight's zines will be going up by a minimum of 20 cents because of increased US postal rates. (Zines that she agents from me will be unaffected as UK postal rates have not changed) If you get an order in before 10 Jan (or before 9 Jan if ordering via me in the UK) then you'll get the zines at the current price. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:14:17 -0000 From: "Dangermouse" To: Subject: [B7L] Space Fall Message-Id: <199812302018.UAA09861@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, I was just flicking through the BBFC's website and it says the rerelease this year was uncut- wish I'd bought one now... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:20:56 +1100 (EST) From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list) Subject: [B7L] OT: ah been cut off from worl Message-Id: Content-Type: text This is terribly off-topic, but if anyone's been trying to email me for the past few days, it may not have gotten through, since a site upstream from welkin got its disk filled up and went comatose for a few days. ObB7: This of course reminds me of my usual perennial wondering; what is a Tarriel Cell really? And how widespread were voice-recognition computers in the Federation? I got the impression that they were rare because the standard interface we see the plebs and Servalan's people using was a keyboard. I assumed that this was because computers able to understand voice commands were really expensive. However, another thought has just occurred to me -- maybe at least in the military, voice-recognition computers weren't used for security reasons. Yes, voice-recognition as a way of preventing unauthorised persons *using* the computer would seem to be a *positive* security aspect - but get one audio bug in a command centre, and there goes all your security. The other thing is that it might be clearer if spoken commands only went to people; it might confuse the computer if a lot of people were talking at once. After all, Slave was considered to be *unusually* sophisticated, so maybe other voice-recognition computers were limited to being rich people's playthings, or academic perks. Kathryn Andersen A.S.K.S. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:59:09 -0000 From: "Paul Whalley" To: "Blakes7 Mailing List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest Message-ID: <000001be3454$d80ed320$9402883e@twleckuj> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Joanne MacQueen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Date: 30 December 1998 03:46 Subject: Re: [B7L] Kairopan harvest > Thank you, Neil. Would it be better if I avoided that >episode if it ever came my way? Or does it have to be seen to be >believed? > >Mind you, the same writer was responsible for "Power", wasn't he, and I >haven't seen that either. Which episode is worse? (You are at liberty to >point to other episodes as being truly bad, if you wish.) > >Regards >Joanne I watched Harvest Of Kairos last Sunday and in my opinion it is a good episode. Admittedly, I had to laugh when I saw the Spider for the first time. Has anyone figured out what Avon originally said when he calls Tarrant an "astute space commander." His lip movements do not tally with the word "astute". Also, I thought it was very unlike Avon not to realise that Kairos was the logical place for them to be transported to, being a planet with a breatheable atomosphere (especially as the Liberator was orbiting it at the time). Paul -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #321 **************************************