From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #36 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume98/36 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 36 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold crown [B7L] Sally's Ariel ad [B7L] final skyhooks [B7L] High and low status [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] High and low status Re: [B7L] Sevenfold crown Re: [B7L] Doc Smith [B7L] Re: Sevenfold Crown Re: [B7L] Doc Smith [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Sally's Ariel ad Re: [B7L] High and low status Bujold (was Re: [B7L] Doc Smith) [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs [B7L] Galeni Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:04:32 +0000 From: Richard Watts To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold crown Message-Id: On Thu 5 February 1998, Jane Elizabeth Macdonald wrote: [snip] >> The BBC have apparantly sold over 170,000 copies of the audio tape, more than >> have ever been sold for any other programme. >> >> I guess that makes the odds of us getting another one look a little higher. Except that the BBC's logic seems to go: If we sell none, it's not worth doing again. If we sell a moderate number, it won't break even, so we shouldn't do it again. If we sell a vast number, it's obviously just due to some campaign or other by a bunch of sad anoraks, and we really shouldn't do it again. Clearly, what we need to do is recast Blake's 7 in a sleepy Welsh farming village (in which no-one ever actually does any farming, 'cos that's messy and nasty and something we don't talk about, daarling), with a couple of good-looking actors and actresses with an allergy to clothes, throw in the odd cute storyline about a sick sheep or something, and broadcast it at 9pm on a Sunday night. Then at the end of the series, Avon can walk in, smile, and kill everyone. >> >> Judith >> >Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this tape? Well, I got mine from Heffers (http://www.heffers.co.uk/) in Cambridge, so you could order it from them if there isn't anyone in Derby. Alternatively, ISTR Horizon (http://www.horizon.org.uk/) were selling it at slightly cheaper than list price. Now all I need to do is find a tape player ... Richard. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:25:25 +0100 GMT From: STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Sally's Ariel ad Message-Id: <29865747MCR1@MCR1.poptel.org.uk> Julie Horner said: "Sally Knyvette is currently appearing in an ad in the UK for Ariel wash powder. She plays a forty- somethingish mum whose teenage son has just come back from Glastonbury festival with filthy clothes. After doing the necessary with the washing machine she reminisces to her son that 'Of course things were different in my day - we didn't wear clothes!'" I really like that ad, especially the look on her son's face when she says the above line. I even pointed it out to a mate when it came on the telly in the pub. However, until Julie posted the above I hadn't realised it was Sally. Oops. Oh no, am I going to end up talking to B7 actors at Deliverance and not realise who they are? cheers Steve Rogerson Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ Make your own tribble! Buy a hamster and cut off its legs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:02:52 +1100 From: "Roger The Shrubber" To: "B7 Main List" Subject: [B7L] final skyhooks Message-Id: <199802051558.CAA13641@budapest.ozonline.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, very last Skyhooks effort. Not 100% B7 mind you. JUKEBOX ON THE NEBULA Way up on the nebula There's a club that's just for fun It's the place where the space folk go When the fightin's all been done The best nite-club in the Nebula Music vodka & soma It's the astro's local spot When they come in from the cold At that Jukebox on the nebula Pounding out hysteria Get down, get down anti-grav room Drop a credit, watch it go boom Jukebox on the nebula Jukebox on the nebula In the land of the midnight star Flash Gordon's simply goin' too far Penny, Will & Judy too They're all drinkin' at the bar Avon he's there lookin' cool Tarrant & Cylon, shooting pool Hal 9000's logging on To hang out with Picard When the needle hits that 45 Arthur Dent just comes alive When Roj Blake says "ring that bell" You know the revolution's alive & well Deep beneath the polar ice The Thing is really dressed up nice Take Jules Verne up to the top So they can get on down Well if you're JMS or TNG They might just let you in for free There's a red dwarf on the door You can hear sounds Of Space Above starting a fight Robbie Robot - dance all night But if Kirk wants to sing for beer We're all blastin' right out of here ___________________________________ from Darren r ..... Comments are welcome ! powerplay@cheerful.com ____________________________________ "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." --Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977 ______________________________________ "The Administration is out to get me" _______________________________________ "In the end, winning is the only safety" _________________________________________ "There are times when even confirmed cynics must trust to luck" ________________________________________ Was God an astronaut ? _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634 Anxiety & Panic _________________________________________ http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/2634/powerplay.html Blake's 7 FAQ & free screen savers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:21:12 GMT From: Iain Coleman To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] High and low status Message-Id: <20216.9802051621@bsauasb.nerc-bas.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: 0NjtiZlZRlVyW//Loo4tAg== I can't be bothered with this ionospheric mapping right now, so I'll ramble at you lot instead. I've been doing some acting classes, concentrating on status, and how to convey it. Very often, one character will have high status, and the other low status - two high status characters will often have a conflict to resolve this. Status can shift around as the performance progresses. Most actors are naturally one status or the other - I'm naturally high status and have to work very hard to assume low status. Naturally, I got to wondering how this applies to B7. On paper, Avon could well seem like a nerd. Paul Darrow is clearly a high status performer, and casting him in this role was a crucial element of the show. Michael Keating, on the other hand, seems naturally low status. I vaguely recall something about MK auditioning for Avon, and it's interesting to imagine how the character would have ended up if he'd got the part. I can see this sad, socially inept geek sitting on his own in the "London", occasionally piping up with some snide comment, eventually goaded into action by Blake. I won't quote the script, it's too long, but reading Avon's first few scenes and imagining MK playing it... it would have been very different, but it would have worked. PD's performance was an important factor in the development of Avon's character. Without him, I imagine Avon as a much less forceful character, but in some respects more dangerous. The show would probably have been more conventional, with Blake leading his band of rebels from exploit to heroic exploit, but with this rather nasty, sinister Avon in the background, covertly undermining Blake rather than directly challenging him. Now Paul Darrow as Vila... Naah. Iain ------------------------------ Date: 5 Feb 1998 09:28:47 -0800 From: "Buck, Courtney" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: > Judith wrote: > The BBC have apparantly sold over 170,000 copies of the audio tape, more than > have ever been sold for any other programme. > > I guess that makes the odds of us getting another one look a little higher. HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!! HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!! We ordered Sevenfold Crown from Horizon almost six weeks ago and haven't received it yet. Does anyone know if it usually takes this long for Horizon deliveries to the U.S.? Is it time for me to worry that it's lost in the mail? Courtney ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:03:59 EST From: RCobbett@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] High and low status Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> High status Naturally :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:38:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Sevenfold crown Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Wed 04 Feb, Alison Page wrote: > Judith said > > > The BBC have apparantly sold over 170,000 copies of the audio tape, more > than > > have ever been sold for any other programme. > > Yahoo!! > > What brilliant news. I can't believe there are so many fans out there. In > particular considering the pretty mediocre quality of the play itself. You > must feel bitter-sweet about it Judith seeing as Gareth was not involved. Yes. While I'd rather have this than no Blake's 7 at all, I'd far rather have had Gareth Thomas again. Ah well, at least it didn't put me in the position of disliking something he's been in. I shall get the next Horizon audio play as soon as it's out. Gareth has a small part in that. How much would you like to bet that 'Logic of Empire' will be better written than 'The Sevenfold Crown' in spite of being a fan production? 'Mark of Kane' was well enough done. It was more of a gap filler than a whole new story, but it had excellent consistency and the characters were true to themselves. (although there are interesting debates re Gan's back history) If anyone wants to buy 'Mark of Kane' there's details both on my web page and Horizon's. I hope 'Logic of Empire' will be out by Deliverance. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:10:56 -0000 From: "Sam" To: "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Doc Smith Message-ID: <01bd3269$c9477420$174798c2@swhsfzrw> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I still get a kick out of reading Doc Smith's Lensman series. Especially Children of the Lens. And its not just nostalgia for when I first discovered them as a teenager. Admittedly, I get greater pleasure out of more modern writings which have better characters and better story lines. But Doc Smith's books will always have a place on my book shelves. Sam sam@slade.softnet.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:01:46 -0600 (CST) From: "G. Robbins" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Sevenfold Crown Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Richard wrote: >> Clearly, what we need to do is recast Blake's 7 in a sleepy Welsh farming village (in which no-one ever actually does any farming, 'cos that's messy and nasty and something we don't talk about, daarling), with a couple of good-looking actors and actresses with an allergy to clothes, throw in the odd cute storyline about a sick sheep or something, and broadcast it at 9pm on a Sunday night.<< Sounds familiar......? Yeah, that would be the definintion of a quality program! (Not!): P >>Then at the end of the series, Avon can walk in, smile, and kill everyone.<< Sometimes I wish that would happen in many of the T.V. shows shown today! I just couldn't continue lurking after a comment like that one! Grace Robbins robbins@inet-ux.graceland.edu http://www.graceland.edu/~robbins ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 07:51:53 +1000 From: vera@c031.aone.net.au To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Doc Smith Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980206075153.3f77ecf2@mail01.mel.aone.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dangermouse: >> As for Doc Smith - I tried rereadng those a couple of years ago, >> remembering how great they were when I was younger. And I discovered that >> they're crap. Judith P: >That happened to me. I went to great effort to get the one I was missing in the >series, sat down to re-read them all again, and discovered that they were >totally boring and the characters were one-dimensional. I couldn't manage more >than a couple of chapters. But good crap! I read my way through the Lensman series as an adult and thereby earned a lot of awe-struck respect (or horror) from my blokish friends. It's worth it, I think, so that you can properly enjoy Harry Harrison's "Starsmashers of the Galaxy Rangers". Maybe not... Speaking of gung ho, jingoistic, space adventures - "Starship Troopers" anyone? I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Was it just me or was everyone wearing blue contacts? Anyone ever voted Michael Ironside to play Avon? And speaking of B7, which I suppose I should, I got round to reading Bujold's "Brothers in Arms" last week. You can't know Avon and not see him in Galeni, can you? My jaw dropped at the initial cell scene. The strangest effect on my brain: Ivan kept morphing into Tarrant. Eek. Cheer, Malissa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:32:06 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Smith To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <199802052132.PAA28399@utopia.micro.ti.com> I enjoyed Adam's comments on whether Blake was stronger in the F direction or the T. I agree that Blake leans towards the F, based on the simple test that his goals are based on his feelings. There is some disagreement on whether Avon is INTP or INTJ. I lean towards the J side. From Kiersey's web page (which must be getting a lot of hits lately, thanks to this list), here are some of the key differences between J's and P's: * J's make timetables, plan, and schedule, while P's keep opportunities open and watch for alternatives. Based on Avon's actions in Terminal (where he plans ahead for the crew to not come after him), in Rumours (where he sets up an elaborate plan to trap Shrinker, and find Anna), and in Gold (again, planning), he seems to be more of the planning/scheduling type. * J's will focus on their work beyond all else, and will not leave until all the details are done. P's are more playful about their work, and will take breaks to play or rest. I can think of several examples where Avon concentrates on his work until it is done (Avon's "gadget", his Sopron, etc.). Somehow, I can not picture Avon being playful in his work. * P's would describe J's as "driven", "uptight", or "slave-driving", which the other characters might apply to Avon. J's would describe P's as "indecisive", "aimless", or "lazy", which I can picture Avon describing other characters as. For those reasons, assuming that Keirsey's comments are an accurate description of the Myers-Briggs test, I would rate Avon as more "J" than "P". -Neal Smith (who may be biased. In case anyone's counting the types on the list for a poll, I test as "INTJ".) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 18:19:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Sally's Ariel ad Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Thu 05 Feb, STEVE.ROGERSON@MCR1.poptel.org.uk wrote: > I really like that ad, especially the look on her son's face when > she says the above line. I even pointed it out to a mate when it > came on the telly in the pub. However, until Julie posted the > above I hadn't realised it was Sally. Oops. Oh no, am I going > to end up talking to B7 actors at Deliverance and not realise > who they are? Now there's an interesting thought. There's a recent photo of Sally on my web page - look at the con report for Visions. There's a few photos of other cast members at various conventions, though I can't recall all of them off-hand. There's loads of photos of Gareth of course, but you know him already. For those who don't, Gareth Thomas is very easy to spot. Look for the man with white curly hair standing at the bar with a group of fans around him. Paul Darrow is, of course, the man with an even larger group of fans around him. (I would consider this totally unjust, but it leaves more of Gareth for me ) Judith PS. I do hope Gareth's kept that beautiful beard. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:19:15 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] High and low status Message-ID: In message <20216.9802051621@bsauasb.nerc-bas.ac.uk>, Iain Coleman writes > >On paper, Avon could well seem like a nerd. Paul Darrow is clearly a >high status performer, and casting him in this role was a crucial >element of the show. Michael Keating, on the other hand, seems naturally >low status. Michael Keating has occasionally commented on how he felt that Vila was a small, rodentish, hide-in-the-shadows person, so that's how he played him. Amongst other things, he and Paul Darrow are actually more or less the same height. On the other hand, I find it rather difficult to imagine Paul not being flamboyant... (guess who watched edited highlights of Timelash last night :-) -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:49:39 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Bujold (was Re: [B7L] Doc Smith) Message-ID: <19980206124939.60587@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Feb 06, 1998 at 07:51:53AM +1000, vera@c031.aone.net.au wrote: > And speaking of B7, which I suppose I should, I got round to reading > Bujold's "Brothers in Arms" last week. You can't know Avon and not see > him in Galeni, can you? My jaw dropped at the initial cell scene. The > strangest effect on my brain: Ivan kept morphing into Tarrant. Eek. The really weird thing is that I *still* can't see Avon in Galeni. Galeni is Galeni, not an Avon avatar. I dunno, maybe I was too busy looking at Miles. However, if you want another Avon parallel with Galeni, just read "Memory" and see what happens to his love life. (-8 -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:59:55 -0800 From: Pat Patera To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <34D803DB.1F45@geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wonderful thread. I long had Avon down as an INTJ (because he actually finished projects and had working models of things - teleport, cloaking shield, gadgets) but wouldn't a "genius" have even more things built? Considering Avon a P explains that age-old question: why didn't Avon have Orac bring down the Federation banking system? Typically, a P doesn't follow things to completion, because some new interest sends them off on some other tangent. Yipes! Does that make Orac an INTP? Orac never does anything with his research either. I've had many a go-round with Avon fans who like to believe he has deep, sensitive feelings and that cold, hard exterior is simply protective armour. NFs just can't find it in their hearts to believe that perhaps he really doesn't feel strong emotions and so doesn't especially care what other people feel - it's not all that real to him. Rather like saying, "I'm not hungry; so what are you all carrying on about?" Considering that INTJs and INTPs are each only about 1% of the total population, there are rather a large number of them on this list. (I test strongly INTJ - much to my dismay - and the results don't change even as years pass - alas; watching ESFPs have such fun, I wouldn't wish an ITJ on anyone- still, I do get a lot done). But naturally there would be lots on a list, for the EFs are out rubbing noses at the bars, while the ITs are sucking up stuff on the computer. Well, would *you* want to party at the bars with an Avon? (trampled here in the stampede). I thought it curious that among my (IN) limited circle of friends (both online, BTW, two are INTJs - this list further proves that those 1% minorities are heavily concentrated online. Pat P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 20:20:33 -0800 From: "Adam L. Fuller" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980205202029.0068f8d0@POPD.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Adam again. What's wrong with the quadrant method? Well, I concur that guardians and rationals are opposites, and that idealists and artisans are also opposites, but the problem with that opposite theory is that it doesn't consider the alternate function. For example, an NTJ has one important function in common with an SJ. An SFP has one important function in common with an NF. I think the quadrant theory works for NTPs because they don't have that J function, thus making them *significantly* different from an SJ. While it is true that as an ENTJ, I am quite different from SJs and find myself at odds with them all the time, I still have a similar function - the J, and it is that one function that can make me agree with an SJ on certain things. An NTJ can sometimes be at odds with an SP's freedom loving, uninhibited nature. Someone also asked a question about ENTJ charisma. Someone said "I have the charisma of a currant bun." I don't have it in front of me, so I don't remember whether it was DJ or Lisa who said it. But you were suggesting that an SP would be the more likely type to have charisma. While that is true, an ENTJ also has charisma when it comes to making a point. As an ENTJ, I know all about that. I can dramatically make my point known and I try to be as articulate as possible. I do this *only* to make a point - not for the thrill or excitement or to score points with the listeners. I often get upset when my point is not taken as I have intended it. Also, remember what Keirsey calls an ENTJ? He calls them "field marshall." I don't entirely agree with that label, but it works in this aspect of it. Anyway, I think it's amazing that no one has disagreed with my firm assessment that Servalan is an SP. No one seemed to agree to it before I wrote in with my explanation. Can I assume that my explanation changed your minds, or is the jury still out on her type? -Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 00:27:55 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980205231554.00b2c104@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Adam L. Fuller wrote: >What's wrong with the quadrant method? Well, I concur that guardians >and rationals are opposites, and that idealists and artisans are also >opposites, but the problem with that opposite theory is that it >doesn't consider the alternate function. Yep. Actually, if I had to pick the temperament I was most "unlike", I'd probably say NF. Since I'm an INTJ it probably *ought* to be SP, but I'm a very strong T and a weak J with lots of P-ish tendencies, and I end up having more in common with the SPs than the NFs -- from my own point of view, anyway. >Someone also asked a question about ENTJ charisma. Someone said "I >have the charisma of a currant bun." I don't have it in front of me, > so I don't remember whether it was DJ or Lisa who said it. That was Jenni. I've got charisma, but only during manic spells. (I'm bipolar, and it's not unusual for hypomanics to be able to fascinate people and lead them around by the nose.) >Anyway, I think it's amazing that no one has disagreed with my firm >assessment that Servalan is an SP. No one seemed to agree to it before >I wrote in with my explanation. Can I assume that my explanation >changed your minds, or is the jury still out on her type? Sorry, I stand by my original assessment. I do not see Servalan as an SP; that's quite at odds with the way I perceive the character. Of course, this is B7 -- we may simply see the character in very different ways. (I noticed that in your analysis of Blake you were making some assumptions that I've seen quite a few fans disagree with; for instance, that he was sincere in his "I have always trusted you" line in "Star One".) -- - Lisa Lisa's Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 22:27:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Galeni Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 On Thu 05 Feb, vera@c031.aone.net.au wrote: > And speaking of B7, which I suppose I should, I got round to reading Bujold's "Brother > s > in Arms" last week. You can't know Avon and not see him in Galeni, can you? My jaw > dropped at the initial cell scene. The strangest effect on my brain: Ivan kept morphin > g > into Tarrant. Eek. Yes, Galeni was very much Avon for me too. Interestingly enough, in the later book 'Memory', Galeni has become his own man. There's very little trace of Avon left. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:21:17 -0000 From: Alison Page To: Lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-ID: <886760676.1027874.0@alisonpage.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam said - > Anyway, I think it's amazing that no one has disagreed with my firm > assessment that Servalan is an SP. No one seemed to agree to it before I > wrote in with my explanation. Can I assume that my explanation changed your > minds, or is the jury still out on her type? Well, Adam, I guess lots of people feel a bit intimidated by the fact that you have been studying this for ages and others (like me) only found out about it this weekend. However as an ENTP 'winging it' has always been my method, so here goes. To my mind Servalan is definitely the same as you - an ENTJ. An extrovert sensualist would be much less devious than Servalan. Like a lot of cold women her sensuality is very much directed for a purpose - she uses it rather than being swept away by it. I would take NTJ to be the definition of 'a thinker who knows' as opposed to an NTP who is 'a thinker who asks'. Both Avon and Servalan 'know' what to do, it's just that as an extrovert Servalan needs to impose her 'solutions' on other people, while as an introvert Avon would rather everyone left him alone with his answers. BTW while we are on the subject another thought occurs to me. The fourth season crew, with the exception of Avon, all seem to be of similar types - all sensualists: entertainers (Vila), go-getters (Tarrant) and artisans (Dayna and Soolin). Is this why some people find the dynamics of the fourth season unsatisfactory? Is this why Avon felt so isolated? Sensualists live in the present. As an NT I do find that people who are more practical than me find me incomprehensible - they can't understand how someone can be both brainy and stupid at the same time. They are bemused when I react emotionally to what is going to happen rather than what is happening now. I think that was how the others saw Avon. And imagine how he felt - he could see the implication of every event, as if in plain sight - and everyone else was reacting only to immediate events. To me that is why Avon could set about killing Vila in Orbit - because to his clear intuition they were both already dead unless they could lighten the ship. To Vila however he lived while he breathed, and after the event he felt that Avon had 'nearly killed him' not 'saved them both'. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:53:29 -0000 From: "Jenni-Alison" To: , "Adam L. Fuller" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <199802061152.MAA03140@samantha.lysator.liu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Adam L. Fuller > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs > Date: 06 February 1998 04:20 > > > > Someone also asked a question about ENTJ charisma. Someone said "I have the > charisma of a currant bun." It was me, but I tested out as ENFJ, not ENTJ. The reason I was querying the charismatic quality is that while the "Teacher" label fitted me very well in some repects, the description on the page makes a great play of the extreme leadership ability of the ENFJ. People seem to just leap to do what they want. From the discussions on this list, I believe that there are shades of Grey in this classification system (Strong or weak N's etc). Perhaps that accounts for it. Mind you, using Adam's quadrant theory I came out NT, so back to the drawing board! I don't have it in front of me, so I don't > remember whether it was DJ or Lisa who said it. But you were suggesting > that an SP would be the more likely type to have charisma. While that is > true, an ENTJ also has charisma when it comes to making a point. As an > ENTJ, I know all about that. I can dramatically make my point known and I > try to be as articulate as possible. I do this *only* to make a point - not > for the thrill or excitement or to score points with the listeners. I often > get upset when my point is not taken as I have intended it. Also, remember > what Keirsey calls an ENTJ? He calls them "field marshall." I don't > entirely agree with that label, but it works in this aspect of it. > > Anyway, I think it's amazing that no one has disagreed with my firm > assessment that Servalan is an SP. No one seemed to agree to it before I > wrote in with my explanation. Can I assume that my explanation changed your > minds, or is the jury still out on her type? Well, she's certainly Utilitarian in implementing goals (brutal might be a better word), and no one could accuse her of not wanting to make an impact, although I'm not entirely sure she'd be permissive as a parent, but I'm with you Adam. Jenni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 07:09:39 -0800 From: "Adam L. Fuller" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 & Myers-Briggs Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980206070937.0068ee88@POPD.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lisa said: Sorry, I stand by my original assessment. I do not see Servalan as an SP; that's quite at odds with the way I perceive the character. Of course, this is B7 -- we may simply see the character in very different ways. (I noticed that in your analysis of Blake you were making some assumptions that I've seen quite a few fans disagree with; for instance, that he was sincere in his "I have always trusted you" line in "Star One".) All right, look at it this way. Guardians want to make a contribution, Idealists want to make a difference, Artisans want to make an impact, and Rationals want to make a point. Do you really think Servalan wants to make a difference, contribution, or a point? I think it's definitely an impact that she's interested in making. Also, look at her sometimes. She likes to get dressed up into flamboyant outfits and wear lots of make-up. That's an SP trait - making a impact. As for Blake, I really do see his sincerity in that line. One other thing I forgot to point out last time was his message he left behind for the crew in "Trial." Avon questioned his sincerity in that message. Everyone else seemed a little skeptical. But who was it that told Avon that he's wrong? Cally, another NF. I think that says something. -Adam L. Fuller (ENTJ) -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #36 *************************************