From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #101 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/101 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 101 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] The Logic of Empire Re: [B7L] Stardrive Re: [B7L] Assassin [B7L] Some Silliness Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] crap scripts Re: [B7L] Assassin [B7L] Sheer craftwork (as it were) (Was Myers Briggs + thankyou) Re: [B7L] Not for the faint of heart [B7L] Report on Redemption '99 Re: [B7L] Phoenix 4 Re: [B7L] Not for the faint of heart Re: [B7L] Blake-Avon-Tarrant Re: [B7L] Re: Blake-Avon-Tarrant Re: [B7L] Assassin [B7L] Redeption con reports and photos Into the Grave (was Re: [B7L] Assassin) Re: [B7L] Ooh, I've binged...and red leather Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs + a thank you Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs + a thank you Re: [B7L] Assassin Re: [B7L] Assassin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:26:27 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: lysator Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: In message <003001be6e8c$7e749940$6f428cd4@default>, Neil Faulkner writes >As to why Boucher commissioned it - I didn't get around to asking him this >when I met him at Deliverance. Maybe he was just glad to get a script to >fill the series quota. Maybe things went too far ahead too quickly to >cancel it. Or maybe he was perfectly happy with it. I honestly don't know. Boucher was asked, tactfully, why on Earth he let through the Ben Stud scripts (I think those were the ones the questioner was peeved about), and the answer roughly translated as "If someone turns in a good looking outline, is commissioned to turn it into a script, and turns in a crap script, there isn't the time or money to do anything about it". -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:49:15 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <36ED562A.8C734197@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gail said: > One more question -- what sort of follower would Tarrant have been if he had > joined the crew when Blake was still in charge? the loyal, unquestioning > follower? or still the youngster wishing he was in charge? This is actually the reason I started the Blake-Avon Avon-Tarrant discussion; I'm trying to figure out what a Blake-Tarrant relationship would be like. If you put Blake-Avon-Tarrant together, human nature being what it is, one of them is going to become an outsider *fairly* quickly. The question is, which one and why? Does the closeness between Blake-Avon leave Tarrant in the dust? Or does the similarity in goals between Blake-Tarrant leave Avon to close ranks with his buddy Vila, in an effort to resist a headlong plunge into martyrdom? But don't let's start this just yet -- my brain must be furring up! Grins, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:33:25 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] The Logic of Empire Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon 15 Mar, NetSurfCK@aol.com wrote: > Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk writes: > << As it happens, I love the production qualties, but I wasn't so keen on the > plot. > The writing was excellent, especially the dialogue, and the story would have > been great for a one-off. >> > > Though I agree the plot about Guada Prime was too convoluted, I actually quite > enjoyed the play. Paul Darrow was 'right on' as Avon. However the story lost > me when I figured out the premise. I simply can't buy the "punchline" at the > end. That's exactly the kind of thing I mean. Paul was great (better than in T7FC), and if I'd read that ending in a zine, I'd have though 'neat twist'. For a tape however, it was the wrong kind of ending - I think that requires something more 'mainstream'. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:11:40 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Stardrive Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon 15 Mar, Neil Faulkner wrote: > I guess I'll just have to be in a minority of one (again). I thought it had > a decent intro and then slipped around all over the place. The pacing's > very awkward - it feels like two short sequential episodes spliced together > (possibly the only episode that could have benefited from a commercial break > in the middle). And I personally think the scene with Vila faking > drunkenness is just plain embarrassing to watch - I cringe big time whenever > I see it. I like Vila's drunk scene, one of the best bits of the episode. The bit that really struck me this time was that the Space Rats were obviously (if you think about it for more than ten seconds) a highly skilled group. They managed to keep in working order all those stolen vehicles taken from museums etc. That suggests a range of technical sills covering a very broad base indeed. This does not fit in well with them failing to wear gloves when handling Plaxton's equipment. A real enthusiast will do whatever is necessary to get his equipment working. > > Atlan drops a hint that he is not, in fact, a Space Rat at all, but quite > what he is instead goes unmentioned - a serious omission (unless it was cut > from the original script). To me this echoed the stock reactionary idea > that people like me at that time were supposedly being funded from Moscow, > and it made me a little bit angry. never even saw it as that kind of rationale. After all, there are no 'commies' in hte B7 universe and Atlan didn't come over as a member of the rebellion. It was a bad ommission as to what he was supposed to be though. Anyone seen an original script? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:18:29 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon 15 Mar, Neil Faulkner wrote: > >If you don't like the way something fits, why not develop back-story or > >side-story that *makes* it fit (you know, Avon shot the clone, or > whatever?) I > >guess what I'm saying is that tossing out one ep appears to me to show > either 1) > >a lack of imagination 2) a lack of effort or 3) extreme arrogance. I'd > rather > >solve the puzzle. > > Probably (3) in my case... I do prefer to slot in wherever possible, but > DotG just compromises plausibility too heavily. Thinking about it, I > suspect it's because of my firm conviction that because Cally looks so > utterly human, then the Auronar must ultimately be of Earth origin (a > conviction I know I'm not alone in sharing). To suggest otherwise is to fly > in the face of everything we know about the evolution of species. Since > Cally cited a timelag of one million years minimum in DotG, we are therefore > forced to conclude that either - > (a) early human space-farers dumped the first loving couple on Auron, and B7 > is therefore set something like a million years in the future. > (b) ancient space-faring aliens nicked a couple of humans (not necessarily > H.sapiens) from Earth sometime in the last million years and dumped them on > Auron. You forgot myth!!! A million years is myth. It's like saying God created the earth in six days. I know many people who believe that God created the Earth but don't take the six days part literally. Just because Auron myths talk about millions of years doesn't mean that it wasn't actually thousands. I believe the Thaarn's race took humans fomr Earth and placed them on Auron. A bit of genetic engineering gave telepathy and there you are. No problem. > > (a) stretches credulity by quite a margin, yet it's still preferable to (b) > because the Thaarn himself, when finally encountered, is also very humanoid > (and hence implicitly from Earth himself). I think he's a product of convergent evolution and probably from another planet, though I'll concede Earth as a possibility. > As to why Boucher commissioned it - I didn't get around to asking him this > when I met him at Deliverance. Maybe he was just glad to get a script to > fill the series quota. Maybe things went too far ahead too quickly to > cancel it. Or maybe he was perfectly happy with it. I honestly don't know. I susect there are times when there are only so many scripts in the pile and you have to get an episode out next week. You just have to go with the best f what you've got. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:27:28 +1100 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: [B7L] Some Silliness Message-ID: <19990315222728.C1572@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Once upon a time, last year, when I was having a Really Bad Time trying to write Part 2 of "Winning Is The Only Safety", the following dripped from my pen. It has been sitting on my hard drive ever since, unworthy to be called a story, since it's so short. Maybe it's a joke, or something. And if Mistral can post filks about Travis's love life, then I can be foolish/brave enough to post this. .W .A .I .T ..F .O .R ..I .T . . . Some Silliness ---- "You broke Orac!" Avon screamed at the hapless thief. "I'm gonna kill you!" With that he unsheathed the sword which he had already learned how to conceal about his person, and took a vicious swipe at Vila. But Vila wasn't there. He had vanished into thin air. Avon gaped the blank spot where Vila had been cringing just a moment before. *** Vila spluttered and gasped. One moment he was being threatened by Avon, the next, he was *drowning* in a bloody great *ocean*. (cue music for the new Tomorrow People theme) --- Kathryn A. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:42:04 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <00b601be6f2a$d8659c80$401eac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christine wrote: >As far as I recall, the million years is only mentioned once by Cally, and >she's talking about a legend. A million years strikes me as a very round and >unlikely number. It's an origins legend, from the 'mists of time', so there >was probably a tendency for the time period to be inflated by the storytellers. Even if we allow for a ten-fold inflation of the time period, we're still talking about a very long and improbable period of time. > This would make even more sense, bearing in mind the isolationist policy of >Auron, since a history that separates them from the humans running the rest of >the galaxy would fit into their ideology. But Auron's isolationism is recent - the Council's decision to withdraw from the galactic community was opposed by Clinician Franton (snr) about 30 years before Children of Auron. Though the rewriting of history could well have predated the isolationist decision, of course. > >A little thought I had - in Traitor (I think) Vila says something to the effect >"Everyone came from Earth originally. It's a well known fact", to which Soolin >replies "It's a well known opinion actually". It sounds like this is something >that there is debate over - and I can see the debate dividing up between Earth >and the outer planets. For the Terran Federation, it's clearly in their >interests to push the line that all humans came from Earth originally, since >that would give their rule of all the planets more legitimacy. OTOH planets >looking to become or stay separate from the Federation would prefer the theory >that all humans did *not* necessarily come from Earth. I _like_ this idea - only wish I'd thought of it. Fact and fallacy turned into a political football, so very ... _human_:) It also backs up my theory of a major social breakdown somewhere between humanity's first colonisation of the galaxy and the emergence of the Federation - a wonderful opportunity for the facts to go astray. This could tie in with the 'Lost Time' referred to by Tara on Goth. > >Sarkoff, from a planet trying to stay independent, would presumably go for the >latter theory, as might Soolin, who's from a colony planet rather than Earth. Not Sarkoff, I think, since his comments to Cally re her non-terrestrial origin, as well as his collection of antiques, suggest that he feels a close personal affinity to Earth. Lindor might be a relatively recent colony (like Destiny and Chenga). If Soolin thought herself to be 'alien' then she kept pretty damn quiet about it. > >I admit this is a cheap way around the DotG problem, but I don't want to throw >out the episode, since it has about 5 minutes that I *really* like watching ;) Now I wonder which five minutes they might be... Personally speaking, they could have made Crandor the Planet of the Tight Nude Teenage Virgins, but I would still junk it as canon. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:44:43 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <00b701be6f2a$dee1c480$401eac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gail wrote: >Mistral said: > ><< The only people Avon would knowingly walk into his own grave for were > Anna and Blake. >> > >I would like to add Cally to that list. What do you think? Since I'm currently embroiled in writing a story in which he does precisely that, I can only agree. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:56:56 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <00b801be6f2a$dfd461e0$401eac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat wrote: >Hey, why *is* reality so dull? More to the point, what makes you think that it _is_? Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:59:16 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] crap scripts Message-ID: <00b901be6f2a$e0bf5e20$401eac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia wrote: >>As to why Boucher commissioned it - I didn't get around to asking him this >>when I met him at Deliverance. Maybe he was just glad to get a script to >>fill the series quota. Maybe things went too far ahead too quickly to >>cancel it. Or maybe he was perfectly happy with it. I honestly don't know. > >Boucher was asked, tactfully, why on Earth he let through the Ben Stud >scripts (I think those were the ones the questioner was peeved about), >and the answer roughly translated as "If someone turns in a good looking >outline, is commissioned to turn it into a script, and turns in a crap >script, there isn't the time or money to do anything about it". Pretty much what I'd suspected, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Ta. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:36:52 -0600 From: Lisa Williams To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-Id: <4.1.19990315153451.00cf7ee0@dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" VulcanXYZ@aol.com wrote: >I would like to add Cally to that list. What do you think? Definitely and absolutely not, in my book. I never saw any signs of anywhere *near* that strong an attachment to Cally on Avon's part. (Of course, the fact that I loathe Cally myself may have something to do with this.) - Lisa _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ New Riders of the Golden Age: http://www.warhorse.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:58:43 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Sheer craftwork (as it were) (Was Myers Briggs + thankyou) Message-ID: <19990315215844.8864.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain > (Did Avon find him too calculating also, even though Avon was a >real calculator (ha, ha, a pun!) himself?) >Gail As a teenager, I said to a friend that there were THREE computers in Blake's 7 at any one time. She thought that was funny, but then she was a natural candidate for the Tarrant Nostra at that time. [No, you're quite right, one doesn't necessarily lead to the other.] I'm going to have a black leather clad figure singing "I'm the operator with my pocket calculator" lurking in the back of my mind all day now. Thankyou, Gail Regards Joanne Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:09:13 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Not for the faint of heart Message-ID: <19990315220914.22183.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >Travis and Servalan at Goth >by the Scorpi-eaus >(tune: Yesterday) [snip] >Though I'm missing bits I'm still a man Nice one. *And* with a tune we all know (and if we don't, where have we been for the last couple of decades!). >When Star One has been destroyed >You and I could be >Side by side together >And rule the galaxy-y-y-y... Had a little bit of fun working out the phrasing here, but it does work. >Servalan, >I have always been your biggest fan; >Ni! To which we can only say "It". How many shrubberies do you want? Regards Joanne Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:19:33 +0100 From: Murray Smith To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] Report on Redemption '99 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" REPORT ON THE REDEMPTION '99 CONVENTION I was eager to get to Ashford for two reasons. First, due to hearing all the Who's 7 stories, to see if the Ashford International Hotel lived up to its reputation; and second, to see if a smaller convention than Redemption '98 could prove just as enjoyable. I found the hotel to be well up to standard; there was nothing wanting in my room, the breakfast was great, and the main hall built such that discos could take place without risk of disturbing sleeping guests. There was an elongated, glass-roofed lobby, called a 'boulevard', with a large amount of seating, convenient for sitting down and talking to fellow fans, and very close to the bar. Overlooking the boulevard were a number of boardrooms intended for conferences, which were ideal venues for many of the panel discussions. The temperature in the hotel was kept very warm, allowing all of us to go around in shirtsleeves and T-shirts, although this feature made me think at times of a Federation dome. In total, the hotel was an ideal venue, with one small exception: the piped music, which consisted of a number of songs which were replayed continuously, despite Judith's best efforts. As for the convention, I must say that it was superb, being well organised throughout. Compared with Deliverance, the atmosphere was quite different, due to the smaller number of fans attending, and the small number of guests. The result was a more fan-orientated convention, with the guests left somewhat on the edge. Regarding the guests, Sheelagh Wells and Joe Nazarro, I had met at Deliverance, and found them to be as nice as ever; Jane Killick I had few dealings with, not being a B5 fan; but Brian Croucher was the guest I was most interested in. He came with his son, Sean, a well-behaved boy for his age, and appeared to be a quiet man who relaxed once he got to know us fans. In one of the first panel discussions, 'Two sides of a coin: How alike were Blake and Travis?' he impressed me, and, it appeared, the rest of the audience, by being a good speaker, holding our attention. The best part of the convention for me, as in others, was talking to fellow fans, those who I had met at Deliverance, and many who I had not, but whose names were familiar from the Space City and Lysator discussion groups. One of the first people I met after registration on Friday afternoon was Servalan impersonator David Walsh, although I was at first unsure that it was him; because he was quietly dressed in grey, and I had never seen him wearing anything but a dress! Also evident was a woman dressed as Londo Mollari who stayed totally in character until Monday morning. It later came as no surprise that she was one of the contenders in the Ruler of the Universe election, along with Servalan, the Emperor Cartagia, and Buck Rodgers, the latter having visibly gone downhill since the TV series, campaigning on a 'more sleeze' ticket. I ignored the contest, presuming (correctly, as it turned out) that Servalan would win. I had volunteered to act as a steward, so went to the steward's meeting at 7 p.m. that evening. Ivan and Sacha Rukaber, the head stewards, put us at our ease, assigning us our duties. Their organisation of the process was very good and friendly, ensuring that we all enjoyed our new responsibilities. I received a total of three hours stewarding on Saturday, all arranged not to coincide with anything I was interested in; and I found my duties far from onerous, as I had someone to talk to or, by that stage, new fanfiction to read. What followed was the pub quiz, run by David Walsh, which was enjoyable, followed, for me, by taking part in an unexpected filking session run by Judith. I got involved by wandering in and sitting down out of curiosity; the next thing I knew I was singing! I'm not the kind of person who is interested in filking, but enjoyed having participated. The next event I went to was the much heralded Space City party, where what seemed like most of the list was present, packed into one room. It was a good opportunity to meet them all; and the hospitality of some, in terms of the food and drink provided, was incredible. I say this as someone who contributed nothing. There were so many leftovers that they were finally consumed at the steward's party. I finally left in the early hours of Saturday morning, glad that my room was only down the corridor. Saturday proper was as good as I expected, starting with me parting with a lot of money in the dealers' room, acquiring among other things the new zine 'Renaissance', which is well worth a read. One of the dealers had two signed photograps of the Spice Girls, which I felt was a mistake, as they are too normal compared to Servalan, who could show them what 'girl power' really means. Later were two panels, the first on the lack of military strategy in B7, the concensus being that the resistance movements in that universe were somewhat parochial, interested in liberating their own planets, but not much interested in liberating others; and the second was on 'Animals: A misunderstood clasic?' about what episodes should be removed from the B7 canon. The latter ended up with people composing lists on what made a good and what made a bad B7 episode. At 3 p.m. that afternoon was the bring and buy sale, where I was able to pig out on old but interesting B7 zines, plus the script for 'Terminal'. Later, at 5 p.m., followed a lecture by Nik Whitehead on 'Astrophysics in SF', which I found so interesting that I urged her to write it up and give it to Judith, in order that it could be posted on her web page. A while later came an autograph session, which was very quiet and civilised. I had the opportunity of telling Brian Croucher that I was Irish, which he was interested in, having said the day before that his grandfather was from Limerick. Highlights at that time were a number of photographs being taken. One involved David Walsh in Servalan costume, Brian, and a Federation trooper; another involved 'Servalan' holding Susan Bennett's Avon teddy bear, with the trooper pointing a gun at his (the bear's head). The fancy dress competition then began, followed by the cabaret, highlights of the latter for me being a wonderful skit on the BBC and a demonstration of Arabic dancing. Later, all were treated to the spectacle of 'Servalan' dancing with Iain Coleman, followed by some Welsh Klingons, keeping up that character's bad reputation. Again, I had an early morning rather than a late night, as a result of just talking to people. Sunday morning began for me with an interesting talk by Joe Nazzaro on the forthcoming JMS series 'Crusade'. Early that afternoon, after another visit to the dealer's room, was another panel, on SF weaponry. While the discussion got technical at times, there were many interesting contributions, including from a fan who was a tank commander in the Gulf War. It was noted that people perfer the weaponry seen in the 'Star Wars' films to those in 'Star Trek' because the former are adaptations of present-day weapons; so looks were agreed to as being very important for sci-fi weapons, not just present-day ones. There was also a discussion as to the genuine scientific possibility of a beam weapon that could be used by a soldier. The auction, held at 2 p.m., was very interesting, not only for the items on offer, but because Brian Croucher was auctioneer for many of them. He was very good, ensuring that the auction moved quickly, once trying to get me to bid for a signed photograph of my fellow countryman Colm Meaney! Interesting items included Servalan's costume from 'Pressure Point', modeled by David Walsh, which went for a mere 160 pounds. (He had earlier confided in me his doubts about whether he would be able to fit into it, as he had put on weight since Deliverance!) Chris Boucher's script from 'Warlord' was sold for 35 pounds, while a large 'Guards! Guards!' poster, complete with a large picture of Paul Darrow, went for the same amount. Even a Gareth Thomas cardboard cutout went for 6 pounds. The last panel was on the subject of 'Gentlemen prefer blondes: A chance for men to discuss their favourite science fiction characters'. The discussion was very interesting, looking at the portrayals of female characters in fantasy and science fiction, both on the big and small screen, including characters such as Zena and Buffy. The minor female characters in B7, the ones who were in one episode, were looked at, and the concensus was that many were quite good, such as Dr. Plaxton, Tara, and Cancer. The 'Dead dog party' was next, which was everyone left in the hotel who hadn't left or gone to sleep sitting around in the boulevard, drinking and talking. Despite a little sadness that it was all coming to an end, I had some very good conversations, particularly with Neil Faulkner, Suan Bennett, and Graham Young. Apart from B7, lots of topics were discussed. On one occasion, we discussed our tastes in music as well as those of family members. I remember something that now saddens me a little: a shared liking for Dusty Springfield, who was to die so soon after the convention. At last I realised the need for something called sleep, and staggered to my bed at about 3.30 a.m. on Monday morning. My surprise can be judged when I woke up at 7.40 a.m. without the need for a wake-up call! As my flight from Heathrow Airport to Dublin didn't leave till late that afternoon, I was able to have a relaxing breakfast and say some long goodbyes to fellow fans, as well as thank the guests and organisers. While leaving was somewhat sad, I had the benefit of new fanfiction to read on the journey home, having come with a bag big enough to accomodate what I had bought. (This is a tip I recommend for convention goers.) I had enough time to spend about an hour sightseeing in London before going to Heathrow; and I arrived back at my home in Dublin by about 7.15 p.m. that night, with plenty of new items, and memories of a very enjoyable and relaxing convention. To all my fellow fans who I met, most for the first time, it was great talking to _all_ of you; I left out names as this report would be one long list. To Judith, the barefooted Supreme Commander, and her committee, you were superb. Ivan and Sacha I also have to single out, for making stewarding a pleasure rather than a chore. You all did us fans proud. (P.S. I began to pick up at Deliverance '98 what I now find to be a habit, on the way to a B7 convention, when my plane lands, of thinking, 'Down and safe'.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:00:47 PST From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Phoenix 4 Message-ID: <19990316010049.1733.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain >Well, folks, Phoenix 4 has been online for a while, but it is now online >with *pictures*. Val Westall has illustrated the two stories for this B7 >story, which you can find through: > >http://www.wire.net.au/~parallax/blakes7/relleb7.html Very nice, Narelle. My compliments to the artist. Oh, and thankyou for the warning in the editorial. There's no way I could print that one out at work. Regards Joanne (preparing for more drool to emanate from Carol ) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:14:15 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Not for the faint of heart Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/99 1:44:56 AM Mountain Standard Time, mistral@ptinet.net writes: > Travis and Servalan at Goth > by the Scorpi-eaus I don't think I'll ever be able to listen to that song with a straight face again. Which is probably just as well, actually... Nina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:14:16 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Blake-Avon-Tarrant Message-ID: <38dd5a21.36ede8a8@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sally said: > But come on, if Avon had stopped criticising, > Blake would have immediately hauled him into the Medical Unit for a full > check-up. LOL! Definitely, and with good reason! A non-complaining Avon is undoubtedly up to no good, somehow... Nina Smile...it makes them wonder what you're up to. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:14:19 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake-Avon-Tarrant Message-ID: <42deb72a.36ede8ab@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mistral wrote: > I do not *ever* see Avon as Blake's second-in-command. He's not interested in > that. I see Avon as developing a personal loyalty to Blake based on respect and > trust for Blake, never any particular interest in Blake's cause. Once the Liberator is > lost, he realizes he's really never going to be free as long as the Federation > exists; he's stuck with the rebellion, but I don't think he likes it. Agreed, he certainly doesn't *like* it. After Terminal, I also get the feeling that he's taking up the fight not just because he has no alternatives, but for his own sake, out of anger at everything the Federation in general and Servalan in particular have done to him and to others who he cared for. Even through the middle of season 3, I think he might have been willing to disappear into obscurity if he could be sure the others were (reasonably) safe too. By season 4, he's pissed off to the point of finally being willing to *actively* try to bring them down. Unfortunately, IMHO, that anger and the corresponding desire for revenge impairs his judgment and planning abilities. In a way, it's a reflection of Blake's escalating obsession with destroying Control / Star One in season 2. Nina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:14:23 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <33b6b9a0.36ede8af@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/11/99 9:13:38 PM Mountain Standard Time, cmastr@fas.harvard.edu writes: > Claudia (peering out from lurkerdom) > -- > "Three million years in the future, the only suriving human > rebel is Kerr Avon, his only companions, a creature that evolved > from his pet thief, and a hologram of his dead shipmate, Gan. > Additional; it has been two months since we discovered the still > working ancient cloning facilities in deep space and Avon is > running out of Blake's to shoot." --John McKenzie Claudia, this is hilarious! Is there more of it somewhere? Nina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:28:28 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Space City Subject: [B7L] Redeption con reports and photos Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII There's now nine con reports plus various filks, limericks, photos, etc. up on the convention section of my web page. See the script for the Reduced Blake's 7 company complete with pictures! See Brian Croucher with a feather boa and David Walsh! See Gareth in the bar giving the most 'wooden' perfomance of his career... See http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 There's currently a direct link from the top page, or you can also go via 'conventions', 'past conventions'. Judith PS. We'd still like more photos. The ones we have at present cover some events very well and others not at all. We can scan photos and then return them. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:27:57 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Into the Grave (was Re: [B7L] Assassin) Message-ID: <36EE241D.940B4D66@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gail wrote: > Mistral said: > > << The only people Avon would knowingly walk into his own grave for were > Anna and Blake. >> > > I would like to add Cally to that list. What do you think? Since Neil's voted yes, doesn't that obligate me to say no? Seriously, my own take is *no*, but with possible qualifications. Here's my reasoning: Anna is his 'true love', we know he'd die for her; he's said so and shown it. Blake is his 'hero', or if you prefer, his liege, and he's demonstrated his willingness to die to protect Blake -- 'Terminal' is only the most *obvious* example; there are others. He's put those two people above himself. Vila, OTOH, is his best friend and an *equal* -- and he was going to throw Vila off the shuttle. (He's risked his life for Vila and Cally both, and the others too; remember my original comment is re *certain* death.) I used to be in the Avon/Cally camp, but by mid-series C, I'd given it up irrevocably, here's why: 'my' Avon is really only equipped to receive *unconditional* love and acceptance (it's those trust issues of his rearing their head); buddy Vila doesn't see any need to change him, and Blake eventually learns to limit himself to trying to draw out Avon's best self, for Avon's own reasons; but Cally wants to change him; she doesn't really understand his values, her own being so very different. Avon is attracted to Cally, cares for her as a friend, and might have a 'recreational relationship' with her, but he would never fool himself that it was love; and Cally *might* try to call it love for a while, but by mid-series C would have realized that he could never give her the emotional intimacy she craved (although she might not have realized that this was because she could not give him the acceptance he needs to feel 'safe' in the relationship). I think this far more complicated relationship suits the angsty series C far better than Avon and Cally "in love". Think 'Children of Auron', 'Rumors', 'Sarcophagus', 'Ultraworld' -- there is some real push-pull going on here between A-C. I can't imagine that if Anna Grant had been missing on Ultraworld, Avon would have been sitting around on Liberator saying 'Wait a minute -- it's too dangerous'. For me this leaves Cally firmly in the camp of equal -- not someone for Avon to sacrifice himself for. Risk, yes, suicide, no. Having said that, there is for me just a small chance that his chivalrous impulses might have led to a different outcome in 'Orbit' -- but I infer that instead of jumping out the airlock, he'd have just kept looking harder for another solution to the problem. With regard to Dayna, I agree with D. Rose that Avon feels an obligation to Hal Mellanby; I really think Avon would have been willing to consider himself 'in loco parentis' for Dayna, but since she makes it clear that, while she is willing for the most part to follow Avon, she is going to go her own way when they disagree, and really doesn't *want* his protection, he respects that decision enough to offer her only the amount of protection he would to another equal; again, I infer that he would take reasonable risks with his life here but not voluntarily lay it down. All of this, of course, from my own 'personal' canon; YMMV. Having too much fun, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:53:32 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Ooh, I've binged...and red leather Message-ID: <19990316085332.20250.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Julia writes re we-can-all-guess-who in red leather trouser: . Oooohhh. When you do find them, is there any way you can share? Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:33:42 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs + a thank you Message-ID: <36EE2576.70DE9327@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenni wrote: > Gail wrote: > > >Also, there is a tendency to prefer one's own > > type, a sort of parochial attitude that clouds the issue and makes it > >hard to judge the others fairly. That's why people argue so much, yes? We have different values. > That's interesting. I'm ENFJ, but my favorite characters are Avon and > Tarrant. Possibly this is an I or P trait? Or just that people have mainly > spoken out where their Myers-Briggs types matched their favorite > characters? I really think this is an NT trait, myself. It seems as if nearly all the people who argue Avon: P or J? are INTx. My reasoning is that INTx is such a rare type that it's not often we get to be with people who understand and respect our values, let alone get to see them as heroes on television shows. To another type, Avon might easily look like a jerk. To us, he looks like the epitome of our values: logic, self-restraint, discipline, independence, the refusal to be swayed from those values by transitory emotions, etc., etc.... It may be that other types do a better job of understanding each other because there are more of them in the general population, and they've done a better job of learning to get along with and understand each other. > I don't see Blake as calculating, just committed to getting results. He's > committed and focussed, and willing to take responsibility for his own > mistakes, but calculating makes him sound as if he plans peoples moves like > chess pieces, and I don't think he looks that far ahead, or in that much > detail. > > I think Avon found him too clever for his peace of mind. Blake was able to > make Avon do things his rational mind spoke against, and I believe it was > without concious or deliberate manipulation - that's why Avon still stayed > with him. If Blake was deliberately manipulating Avon then Avon would have > left the Liberator. I think this is insightful -- it helps me understand and appreciate Blake far more -- but you already know what I think, Jenni You =are= Blake!! Grins, Mistral -- "To be completely known -- it's like innocence."--Jenna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:15:26 -0700 From: Helen Krummenacker To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <36EDDADE.BC5@jps.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VulcanXYZ@aol.com wrote: > > Mistral said: > > << The only people Avon would knowingly walk into his own grave for were > Anna and Blake. >> > > I would like to add Cally to that list. What do you think? > > Gail Sorry Gail. I am strongly of the opinion that something deep was beginning to form between them; I'd buy that he'd take an even larger than normal risk for her by the time of 3rd season. But _certain death_, no. But I don't see him dying for Blake, either. Example: Orbit. I think he'd ask Blake if he's idealist enough to chuck himself out, I think he might not pull his gun out, but I don't think he'd volunteer to take a dive either. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:48:12 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Myers Briggs + a thank you Message-ID: <19990316084817.27904.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain I seem to be spending a lot of time the last week saying nice things about Blake... Jenni wrote: Agreed. I tend to get annoyed when the man is labelled 'calculating' as if his methods are underhanded. It's not as if he hasn't made it clear to these people what he's getting them into - he's usually very honest with them (Pressure Point is an exception, OK? ) The thing is, he is good at getting what he wants out of this motley, unpredictable and self-willed group of people he's got to work with. A certain amount of - yes, calculation - is absolutely *necessary* and Avon, when he is in charge, is just the same. Agreed. One thing about these two was that they were for the most part remarkably honest with each other about what they were doing and why. It's one of the reasons I argue that, for all the arguments and insults and profound differences in ideas and ideals, they *were* friends. Jenni Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:59:53 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <36EE2B98.9D8D1AEF@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avona wrote: > But I don't see him dying for Blake, either. Example: Orbit. I think > he'd ask Blake if he's idealist enough to chuck himself out, I think he > might not pull his gun out, but I don't think he'd volunteer to take a > dive either. I didn't mean to imply that he'd throw himself out the airlock in Orbit. But he did walk into Servalan's trap in Terminal, with a pretty good idea that it *was* a trap, and then told Vila to take the ship and run after *knowing* it was a trap (but while still thinking Blake was there). In Orbit, I think they'd have discussed it, or drawn straws, or kept looking for another solution. OTOH, this *was* two years down the road from the last time he'd seen Blake -- with two more years together, the dynamic might have changed considerably -- either way. At any rate, I think Avon would have been sick to death at the idea of Blake throwing himself out the airlock for Avon (although the illness might have set in after the fact ). TTFN, Mistral -- "It must get tiresome for you, knowing so much."--Avon "Oh, shut up, Avon!"--Mistral ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:51:36 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Assassin Message-ID: <19990316085139.1496.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Mistral said: Sorry, no. He may have liked - or cared about - Cally, but I don't see their relationship as *that* important to him. His resistance to helping her in Children of Auron (when it conflicts with what he sees as a duty to the dead Anna) really indicates a far lesser level of emotion. In Ultraworld, he had to be talked into rescuing her (OK, he didn't take *much* persuading!). I really don't see evidence to support the sort of cold-blooded self-sacrifice we're talking of here. Gail also asked: All three of them together? Personally, I don't think there would be any roof(??) left on the Liberator from the resultant explosion... Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #101 **************************************