From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #106 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/106 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 106 Today's Topics: [B7L] Flat Robin #37 [B7L] Re: suicide Re: [B7L] worst opening [B7L] Re: More Dayna dynamics Re: [B7L] what's so funny? Re: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant [B7L] Scorpio Re: [B7L] Rookie fans Re: [B7L] Rookie fans Re: [B7L] Rookie fans [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc. Re: [B7L] Scorpio Re: [B7L] personal space Re: [B7L] Scorpio [B7L] Rookie Fans [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc. [Fwd: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant (was Assassin)] Re: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc. Re: [B7L] what's so funny? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:47:31 -0700 (MST) From: Penny Dreadful To: Lysator CC: Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin #37 Message-Id: <199903182047.NAA16488@pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** Johnstone blinked rapidly in puzzlement upon first setting foot in the legendary Mended Drum, and even stepped backwards out through the entrance to confirm this was the place. It was. Obviously then its reputation was worse than the reality. The reality was quite a clean and quiet little tavern. Or had the terror of the tarriel inured him so thoroughly to unpleasantness that he was no longer even capable of perceiving it? He squinted suspiciously around him. No, the place was irrefutably gleaming. The hundred fresh low-tallow candles in the chandelier ruthlessly illuminated its cleanliness. Most of the tables were vacant, their chairs pushed neatly under them, four per. A few were occupied by tourist types, trying to look cool -- trying, that is, not to wince and gag at each exciting sip of Olde Ankhe. And there at the far end of the room a muscular menial was just scrubbing the last unsightly stain out of the floor. The psychotically homicidal bartender of legend seemed to be nowhere in sight. Johnstone smiled. Suddenly he sincerely doubted there ever had been such a beast. Most likely this was as wild as it got, and in truth the undergraduate wizards' greatest excitement on any given night was got from elaborating upon the wild violent tales that they would tell old "All- Day" Johnstone. Well. Things were going to be different from here on in. He walked boldly over to the menial, down on his knees and scrubbing savagely. "Boy!" Johnstone snapped his fingers. "Fetch me a pint of ale, and be quick about it." The bartender (for indeed it was he, but I should hope you knew that by now) looked up at him, not quite able to reconcile aural and visual data. "Come on, come on," said Johnstone sharply. "Stop monkeying around." *** "Hello? Is there anyone here?" Cally called as she cautiously pushed open the door of the High Energy Magic Building. "We come in peace..." "Oh right," sneered a petulant voice in the shadows behind her. "Peace, my-- ouch! Stop doing that, Mister Leather-Trousers!" "Well, we come in slightly more peace than the others do," Cally amended, gingerly advancing across the threshold. There was still no response. "I'm beginning to feel unloved," Avon said, stepping into yet another empty room. "Or is it that *your* reputation always precedes us?" he inquired of the wizard whose scruff he still held[1]. "Still, I have the strangest feeling we're being watched," Cally said, moving deeper into the room. "Good grief, what's *that*?" "That's Hex," Rincewind said. "*That's* Hex," Avon echoed doubtfully. "That's right," said a not-nearly-as-threatening-as-intended voice from behind an architecturally awesome edifice of baked bean tins. "Touch it and you'll find yourself with a mouth full of fireball. I'm a wizard, you know." "Ponder Stibbons!" cried Rincewind happily. "I'd recognize that absolutely unintimidating demeanour anywhere! It's safe to come out, Ponder." "Oh no it's not." A red felt cone rose slowly above the leguminous ramparts. "They just want to ask Hex a few questions," Rincewind continued, his voice dripping sodium cyclamate. "Then they're going to go away. Far away. Forever. They promised." "Oh, Avon, look!" Cally cried. "Isn't it adorable?" Ponder's hat dropped instantaneously from view. "Don't go near it," he shrieked, scrambling on his knees through the entrance of his homemade robinson shelter. "Aren't you a cute little fellow," Cally continued, and moved closer to the creature caged in the heart of Hex. Ponder leapt to his feet and emitted a high anxious sound, but the tarriel just purred and gazed adoringly upon her as she approached it, blinking its large lashy eyes and wriggling its wee pink nose most endearingly. Hex scribbled. Ponder leaned forward well beyond his centre of gravity, in a remarkable example of the triumph of terror over Newtonian physics, and retrieved the output with his hat-waggling stick. "Aren't I just?" he read out loud. "Ooh yes you are!" Cally cooed. She was right next to the cage now, her carotid artery well within reach of the beast's claws. Avon gritted his teeth. "What *is* that thing, anyhow?" Ponder asked Avon, gesturing at the gun he was keeping trained on the tarriel's fuzzy little head. "A toothpick," Avon snapped. "Really! Can I see?" Ponder reached over and plucked the gun from Avon's hand. Avon's jaw dropped and he lunged at Ponder, but was repulsed by an absently invoked Inteppe's Not-Tonight Spell[2]. "I've always been a proponent of pouring more funds into dental hygiene research-- " he said absently, pointing the tip of the weapon at his two front teeth, " --but they always tell me there's no point in being buried with any of one's teeth, the tooth fairy's got enough troubles without being forced into grave-robbery. How does it work?" Avon grinned. "Simple, really, you just--" "Avon," Cally interrupted, without even glancing away from the burbling tarriel. "It's not a toothpick, Mister Wizard, it's a deadly weapon." There was a clatter behind her. "Do you mind if I open the cage?" "Meep," responded Ponder. "Of course he doesn't," Hex scribbled, its quill moving so fast that droplets of ink splattered the floor all around it. "In any case, it's not his decision, it's mine. Open the cage." The tarriel chirped winsomely at her. Cally hesitated, sensing something familiar in the writing style, just long enough for Avon to step between her and the cage. The tarriel hissed. "I think we ought to ask our questions first," Avon said. Cally blinked. "Right," she said. "Mister Wizard, would you please ask Hex what's good for a collision between a spaceship and a swamp?" Hex began scribbling without hesitation. "Letting some idiot shoot it down with a medieval missile," Ponder read out loud, hesitantly. "I don't understand," he said. "It isn't usually half so...belligerent. On the other hand it's never been a *tenth* so prompt. I didn't even have to enter in the question manually! Why, I had my doubts about the tarriel, but this is *fantastic*!" "Tarriel?" Cally's eyebrows shot up, and she leapt back from the endearing little ball of fuzz as though it had just now begun to foam at the toothy mouth. "Orac? Is that you?" Avon addressed the creature and all its surrounding tangle of magical mice and impossible ant-farms. "In a manner of speaking," the quill scrawled, its point grown noticeably duller with the uncustomary exertion. "Ew!" Cally squealed. "I can't believe I wanted to pick you up and cuddle you!" "One small component of me, at any rate," Hex scribbled, at which output Avon had an unexplained coughing fit and Cally looked momentarily unwell. "Just as the box you carry around with you in the Liberator is also but a minor part of the whole." "The mouth part," Avon surmised. Hex's quill quivered but did not deign to waste time and ink rising to the bait. "Every tarriel cell in every computer everywhere is, in a manner of speaking, part of me," it wrote instead. "And so too this small woodland creature, although structurally very different to the typical tarriel 'unit', is (when exposed to the correct stimuli) just as much a part of the great neural network which can be approximately be called 'me'..." *** "...and it goes *on* like this for *pages*!" Eddwode cried, flipping through the dogeared manuscript. "Blah blah Roche Limit, yadda yadda Einstein...good gods, this is supposed to be science fiction, not rocket science!" "Yeah, let's skip ahead to the sex part!" Syggar exclaimed. "Technically, I believe it's supposed to be *satire*, more than science fiction *per se*," Solipsos amended. "But in either case," he scowled, "there *is* no sex part." Syggar shrugged and resumed furiously masticating his cucumber sandwich. "No sex part? No way!" cried the squeaky voice of the great god Merisu from afar. "We'll have to rectify that forthwith!" "Ah, Merisu!" Eddwode beamed, his eyes misting over in reminiscence. "One heck of a god, that Merisu. Pretty much made me what I am today." Solipsos refrained from responding appropriately. "Rectify," giggled Syggar. "Rectify!" ------ [1] "Despite a mysterious absence of allusions to this fact when last we encountered Avon," Solipsos murmured snidely. "Picky picky picky," said Syggar, dipping his kielbassa into the dream-whip with relish. "Is it just me, or is there something going on between those two?" [2] The great and powerful wizard Inteppe, although condemned by his mentors (the mighty mage My'yrze the Magnificent and his esteemed colleague Brygges the Bloody Brilliant) as "disorganized, disdainful, distrustful, disingenuous, and generally downright weird", went on in his lifetime to concoct many spells which future generations of lone brooding wizards found incredibly useful, including Inteppe's I-Have-To-Wash-My- Hair Spell, Inteppe's Don't-Touch-Me-I'm-Contagious Spell, and of course the infamous Inteppe's Leave-A-Message-At-The-Beep Spell. It is presumed that when he died his cats ate him. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:41:44 -0000 From: "Jennifer Beavan" To: "B7 list" Subject: [B7L] Re: suicide Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blake suiciding on GP It's been done but it couldn't be less likely. If Blake had wanted to die he'd have done a Jenna and done as much damage to the Federation as he could in the process. The GP scenario, letting/tricking/making Avon kill him, would hurt the rebellion - Blake, killed by one of his followers/friends - huge propaganda value to the Federation. But mostly Blake wouldn't do it to Avon - or to any of his people. Even a consensual killing would leave wounds and GP clearly wasn't! Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:11:45 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] worst opening Message-ID: <19990318211148.18933.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Oh, yes...I found the whole competition when reading the lysator archives- it's in January to February 1995, and it's hysterically funny. I did copy it to read again - the whole thread is rather long, so copying it again would take up an awful lot of mailing list, and it's *all* worth reading, so I urge you all to go back and enjoy...- Calle, would there be any problem with me reporsting the winning entries? (The winner, showing a whole new side to our Avon, was a joy!) Sally (who went and read them again, and can't stop chortling) From Leah: previously-generated, brilliant "worst opening lines" for B7.> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:37:31 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: More Dayna dynamics Message-ID: <19981029.221034.10054.0.Rilliara@juno.com> Ignore what my computer says. It's 3/17/99 Carol Mc wrote: > >Dayna and Cally never did seem to be close, though I couldn't pinpoint >the >differences other than maturity. Or maybe Cally's general discomfort >with >non-telepaths or non-Aurons? Cally didn't seem close to Jenna either. I think it was the other way around. The Federation had prejudices against noncitizens and nonhumans. The crew, although generally better about this, still had problems. In "Dawn of the Gods," the Dayna and Tarrant quickly accused Cally and the Aurons of being at fault when the ship started to act strangely. Jenna's first comment to Cally was a pointed snipe about the dangers of having aliens onboard. You're right about maturity being an issue. I also think Cally was a more compassionate person than Dayna and had a very different sense of ethics. Their first conversation might have gone something like this. Dayna: So, what do you hope to accomplish by hanging out with this bunch? Cally: Liberty and justice for all. A galaxy where no one lives in fear of their lives, and a kinder, gentler universe. What about you? Dayna: Well, I was hoping to get ahold of that Servalan witch and give her a long, slow, painful death that would have her begging for mercy weeks before I actually terminated whatever was left of her miserable life and put the carcass out for the crows. Of course, I may have to settle for just killing her. Cally: Oh. [long pause]. I think I have to help Vila break open a door. Excuse me. >I often wondered what Soolin thought of Dayna's desire for revenge. >Soolin >had done what Dayna was hoping to do. Had Soolin found completion of >her >mission satisfying or did she find it to be a letdown? And would she >share >those feelings with Dayna? > I'd honestly never thought about this. You've got an interesting idea for a story, there. Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:40:12 +0000 From: Julia Jones To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny? Message-ID: In message <36F0DEC7.B179B04B@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes >I just love it when Blake tops Avon -- it's so unexpected. Only on this list - not on The Other List. Anyone know where MFae is these days? -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:11:12 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu 18 Mar, Mac4781@aol.com wrote: > > The cost of the tape (for the UK) was listed as 5 pounds in the most recent > issue of Horizon. John Ainsworth, 5C Peabody Estate, Lillie Road, Fulham, > London, SW6 1UL. john.ainsworth1@vigin.net John's down to about 5 copies and won't be doing any more until the next big convention, so get one now if you want it. Do be prepared for a possible wait though. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:22:03 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Scorpio Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII How well would Scorpio manage in a fight? I'd always assumed that its weaponry was the pits and was working a story on this basis, when I remembered that dratted space chopper in Stardrive happily blowing pursuit ships to kingdom come. Do I just ignore that, or do I assume that Scorpio can do likewise? It would seem to unbalance everything as I don't think Scorpio was intended to be powerful in a fight. Can anyone give me a good excuse for Scorpio to run away from a fight? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:13:31 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Thu 18 Mar, VJC wrote: > Just something I've been musing over. > > Are rookie fans dangerous? This one really surprised me. After all, we were all rookie fans at one time. > In the UK we tend to have reasonable relationships with actors etc > from Who and B7, so fandom seems a fairly friendly place, quite > unlike the theatricals and commercialism of the Trek scene. I've always attributed this to a mixture of British reserve/good manners and the fact that you rarely get such massive gatherings of fans. There's also the fact that the BBC has never hit the merchandising bandwaggon in quite the same was as the Trek franchise. The way a franchise is presented is going to affect the fan reaction. If you hype it, you have to expect a hyped reaction. If there is a problem (and I'm not familair with the Trek situation) than I'd probably blame it on the promoters as much as the fans. > The question I raise is based on the assumption that there are a lot > of highly enthusiastic even obsessive young fans, late teens, early > twenties out there, who thought they know their subject, know nothing > of the tacit agreements known by the long term fans. It's rather like > there is a rule book, but no-one has seen it. I've met new fans in the 30s, 40s and 50s age bracket. The most obsessive fans I can think of are actually older ones. They have the money to support the interest. Certainly there are tacit agreements, but it doesn't take long for people to pick up on them. I can think of several cases in which rookie fans picked up on the unwritten rules with remarkable speed. If older fans set an example and make new fans feel welcome, then the new fans rapidly blend in. (I've occasionally told new fans what my own unwritten rules are, but never because I felt they were behaving badly in any way.) It may be that nothing more is required than simply to make new fans feel a part of the existing fan community. > The rookies, however, have no such obligations. They are free to > write fanzines, run clubs, websites and even conventions without > really knowing that their arrogance and nievity is damaging to fandom > in general and annoying to the subjects of the fandom. ie. the actors > who are tired of being asked the same questions over and over about a > job they did 20 years ago, then being misquoted. I think the actors have long resigned themselves to being asked the same questions many times over. Many of them admit to making up new answers just for variety. However, some of the actors will also tell you that they don't mind being asked the same questions, because these new fans are also people who are supporting them in their work. If three rookie fans come to the theatre with me to see a cast memeber, then they're helping keep him in work. The cast aren't blind to that and they appreciate it. It's also possible for a long-time fan to be irritating to a cast member. It isn't a sole perogative of the rookie. You sound as though you have specific examples in mind. At the same time, I can't think of anything in B7 that fits your pattern, so are you commenting mainly with regard to a different fandom? Actually, I can think of a couple of conventions that folded, but I know of no badly run B7 clubs or fanzines. >The rookie website/fanzine can often be embarrassing to behold. Does it matter? How many people will actually look at it in any case? It's the best sites that gets links to them and the best ones tend to be at the top of the search engines' lists. I only know of one Blake's 7 cast member who is on the net. Stephen Greif has a rather nice web site. I've linked it from mine. > Even then there's the poor public opinion of fandom in general to consider. > This begs the question; do fans really have any moral obligations at all? And > should they? We're doomed by some parts of public opinion no matter what we do. Frankly, I've mostly given up bothering about it. I remember one con organiser who used to be really worried if there were many fans at the con in fancy dress because he knew the press would focus on them, no matter how many other fans attended in normal clothes. Does this mean we should never dress up? Stuff that for a load of old cobblers! I'm going to enjoy myself and have fun with my friends. Yes, we certainly do have moral obligations as fans, but only in some areas. One of my own unwritten rules is that I regard private conversations as private. I was highly amused to hear one particular anecdote on Sheelagh's latest tape. It was one that Gareth had told a small group of us when we went to see The Crucible in Darlington. Given the nature of the anecdote, none of us (as far as I'm aware) repeated it. Gareth chose to have it on the tape, but that was his choice. If he knew that everything he said in private would be repeated in public, then neither he nor any other cast member who has good friends among fans, would ever be able to relax and hold a normal conversation. So, that's my position for what it's worth. Treat new fans just the same as old ones, and hope that fans old and new will treat the cast as human beings with a right to personal space and privacy. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:14:18 -0800 From: Tramila To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990318171418.007e6730@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Just something I've been musing over. > >Are rookie fans dangerous? >In the UK we tend to have reasonable relationships with actors etc >from Who and B7, so fandom seems a fairly friendly place, quite >unlike the theatricals and commercialism of the Trek scene. >The question I raise is based on the assumption that there are a lot >of highly enthusiastic even obsessive young fans, late teens, early >twenties out there, who thought they know their subject, know nothing >of the tacit agreements known by the long term fans. This sounds like the 'long term' fan is simply jealous of the enthusiasm and freshness that a new fan brings to the fan. >The rookies, however, have no such obligations. They are free to >write fanzines, run clubs, websites and even conventions without >really knowing that their arrogance and nievity is damaging to fandom >in general and annoying to the subjects of the fandom. ie. the actors >who are tired of being asked the same questions over and over about a >job they did 20 years ago, then being misquoted. The rookie >website/fanzine can often be embarrassing to behold. Were you any different when you discovered fandom? Were you (or should I say the writers of your era) any better at writing, plotting, or producing a fanzine? The job that the actors did 20 years ago may be old hat to them but it is the fan who wants to see them in shows today. Yes, it is boring to them but the fans and their desires to see the actor's work is the bread and butter of an actor's career. You cut enthusiasm of the fan, you cut the actor's recognition, you cut the desire of "the powers that be" to want that actor for a new piece of production (be it TV, film, or stage). >Even then there's the poor public opinion of fandom in general to >consider. People who are not into being fans will always look down on people who like to be fans. It really doesn't matter if the fan is a 'good' fan or a 'bad' fan, the general 'non-fan' public has a poor opinion of fans. >This begs the question; do fans really have any moral obligations at all? And should >they? "Moral" obligations? Whose? Yours or mine. I think that the overzealous fans should be stopped from harassing an actor. After all, an actor is a person too. However, to be an actor means that you must live with fans for without fans, there is no job. Yes, a good actor can stand on their own. But think about it. If you are a production company, are you going to choose a "great" actor with no fans or a "good" actor with a solid fan base? Fans = money. It's not a pleasant thought but it is the facts of life. Tramila ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:55:35 EST From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Rookie fans Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-03-18 17:24:33 EST, Judith (quoting Vick) wrote: << > Are rookie fans dangerous? This one really surprised me. After all, we were all rookie fans at one time.>> I agree with Judith. Without new fans coming into B7 fandom, it might have died long ago. Without new people and new ideas, any organization will stagnate and eventually die. << > In the UK we tend to have reasonable relationships with actors etc > from Who and B7, so fandom seems a fairly friendly place, quite > unlike the theatricals and commercialism of the Trek scene. I've always attributed this to a mixture of British reserve/good manners and the fact that you rarely get such massive gatherings of fans. There's also the fact that the BBC has never hit the merchandising bandwaggon in quite the same was as the Trek franchise. The way a franchise is presented is going to affect the fan reaction. If you hype it, you have to expect a hyped reaction. If there is a problem (and I'm not familair with the Trek situation) than I'd probably blame it on the promoters as much as the fans.>> This is very true. Also, Trek fandom is enormous compared to B7 fandom, at least in the States. Everyone knows about Star Trek. Maybe one person in fifty has even heard of B7. Consequently, there are more nuts, and they are much more visible in Trek fandom. << I've met new fans in the 30s, 40s and 50s age bracket. The most obsessive fans I can think of are actually older ones. They have the money to support the interest.>> I happen to be one of them. I had never seen an episode of B7 until I was thirty-one. Once I did, I was hooked. >The rookie website/fanzine can often be embarrassing to behold. Does it matter? How many people will actually look at it in any case? It's the best sites that gets links to them and the best ones tend to be at the top of the search engines' lists. I only know of one Blake's 7 cast member who is on the net. Stephen Greif has a rather nice web site. I've linked it from mine.>> And one of the ways people learn is by making mistakes. Some of the zines and websites could use improvement, and I've noticed that over time, many of them do get better. Writers get better, the more stories they write. Artists get better by drawing more pictures. Should people not even try because someone somewhere might not like their early efforts? << We're doomed by some parts of public opinion no matter what we do. Frankly, I've mostly given up bothering about it. I remember one con organiser who used to be really worried if there were many fans at the con in fancy dress because he knew the press would focus on them, no matter how many other fans attended in normal clothes. Does this mean we should never dress up? Stuff that for a load of old cobblers! I'm going to enjoy myself and have fun with my friends.>> Bravo, Judith! So what if other people think I'm weird for liking the things I like. They've thought that since I was five years old and the smartest kid in the class. <> I think this is what it really boils down to, treating others as we ourselves would like to be treated. Tiger M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 99 01:45:00 GMT From: s.thompson8@genie.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc. Message-Id: <199903190201.CAA22224@rock103.genie.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lots of interesting threads going on! I agree with Alison, Una, et al. about humor not necessarily being painful for anyone involved. Puns were the example I was thinking of, too. A related form of humor, that IMO is not =necessarily= painful for anyone, is parody and/or pastiche (by which I mean something "in the style of" something else; sort of parody backwards). Many people interpret parody as basically hostile to the subject parodied, making it look ridiculous in order to deride it. I think that although that's possible, in the majority of cases it's not what's going on at all. Generally parodies are done by people who =love= the thing parodied-- or rather both things, the subject and the vehicle. B7 in the style of Shakespeare, "Waiting for Godot" rewritten as "Waiting for Blake," that sort of thing. Oh, and filks, of course! I have actually been thinking about this for professional reasons lately. I have to write an article about some humorous 19th-C. Japanese prints, and I think that the source of the humor is precisely the incongruity that Alison was talking about. In the prints, famous landscape scenes are juxtaposed with scenes from contemporary fiction and drama that have nothing to do with that place; the relationship is usually a pun. On an old thread, as to whether Avon would die for Cally: I think I'd have to say no if we're staying purely within the aired canon, BUT I do see enough vibes between them that I can easily imagine their relationship developing to the point where she would indeed be in the same category with Anna and Blake. The alternate universe that has A/C in it is, IMO, not all that far from the canonical universe. But I'd need to see a bit more evidence (which fan fiction can provide, of course) to be convinced of such a relationship. On Avon's arrogance: I agree with the idea that several people have suggested, that Avon has a well-founded confidence in his intellect but probably feels insecure about his abilities in other areas, notably personal relations. As for Tarrant's alleged arrogance, well, he really =is= superior to most people in most ways. What is he supposed to say, "Oh, I'm not a very good pilot at all, really, and I'm no great shakes at combat tactics, either" (blushing with becoming modesty)? This does not strike me as a very good recipe for survival in the harsh B7 universe. Insofar as there's insecurity behind his behavior, I think it's a matter of feeling that he has to act extra-tough to impress the ruthless terrorists he's fallen in with (and Carol, I'm pretty sure that was your own idea!). And what is all this about "rookie fans"? Surely everyone was a newbie at one time? I should think that the ongoing enthusiasm of the newcomers, as opposed to the jaded oldsters, would gladden the heart of any actor who wonders about his/her crowd appeal and would surely make up for having to answer familiar questions over again. Vick, I am puzzled as to what you are talking about, because I myself haven't seen any websites or paper publications by new fans that struck me as being improper by unwritten fannish rules, or even all that different from the productions of older fans (older in the fandom, that is; some well- established fans are still quite young chronologically-- always a shock when one meets one of them and realizes she must have put out her first zine in her teens!-- while some newcomers are grandmothers). Of course, some of the products of well-established fans (specifically, the erotic stories) are considered improper or even offensive by certain actors, but that's another matter altogether. And I do agree that some people should pay more attention to unwritten fannish codes of conduct, such as tempering one's criticism of stories and zines, especially if the writer or publisher is relatively new and needs encouragement. But I haven't noticed any particular correlation between thoughtless behavior (whether toward actors or other fans) and the length of time a person has been in fandom. Sarah T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:09:37 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Scorpio Message-ID: <36F1B1E1.7D1E2292@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Proctor wrote: > How well would Scorpio manage in a fight? > > I'd always assumed that its weaponry was the pits and was working a story on > this basis, when I remembered that dratted space chopper in Stardrive happily > blowing pursuit ships to kingdom come. > > Do I just ignore that, or do I assume that Scorpio can do likewise? Aww, Judith, you're having an off day ;) Put your mind at ease. Scorpio ran away from a fight on many occasions. I never heard any suggestion that Scorpio had anything but the most minimal weapons system. And off the top of my head, the only place they were fired was at the end of Gold. Apart from that, her force wall wasn't in the best of shape, and she was a freighter -- quite probably not nearly as maneuverable as most any other kind of ship. Soolin said "We're smoke if they get to us," I don't remember which ep (maybe Traitor). If Atlan got the Space Rats better stardrives, there's no reason to think he didn't steal them new weapon systems too. It's hard to think that a one-seater ship that was "a teen-agers' craze in the last century" had weapons to begin with -- my Plymout doesn't; so I don't think you can (or need to) draw comparisons between Scorpio and the choppers. Scorpio was an old tub. That was deliberate, in order to give our heroes more worries. The 'most powerful ship in the galaxy' gave them too much of an edge -- and we all know how transparent the underuse of Orac was. Even the addition of the new drive unit couldn't change Scorpio's basic design -- fast does not equal maneuverable, powerful, or sturdy. The stardrive simply gave them a better chance of running away to fight another day. Well, sneak rather than fight. I'm sure your story will be fine. Grins, Mistral -- Pontificato ergo sum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:14:01 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] personal space Message-ID: <36F1B2E9.A226E0B0@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Proctor wrote: > Well, actually Avon would just have said 'Liar!', but I was trying to explain > his thought processes. > > so. > > AVON: Liar BLAM Nah. I vote for: AVON: What kind of an idiot do you take me for? Vila? BLAM (Okay, I'm kidding about the Vila bit.) Grins, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:35:36 -0400 From: Cam MacLeod To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Scorpio Message-ID: <36F1A9E5.DC4C35F7@ilap.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Slave's notoriously poor force walls would be ample reason for Scorpio to avoid fights. Amble evidence is shown on screen, from Stardrive, to Animals, and especially Gauda Prime. Even Tarrant admitted Scorpio wasn't up for a fight at one point in the series. Probably Slave just couldn't do it right, or he didn't have enough power, or computing skills. Other than that weaponry might have been a problem. Scorpio only seemed to have a single laser under the hull and although Dorian might have had it upgraded to pose a credible threat, Avon and Co. didn't seem to find out about it. But maybe because of my first point noted, the crew avoided fights and never had gthe chance to use it. Judith Proctor wrote: > How well would Scorpio manage in a fight? > > I'd always assumed that its weaponry was the pits and was working a story on > this basis, when I remembered that dratted space chopper in Stardrive happily > blowing pursuit ships to kingdom come. > > Do I just ignore that, or do I assume that Scorpio can do likewise? > > It would seem to unbalance everything as I don't think Scorpio was intended to > be powerful in a fight. > > Can anyone give me a good excuse for Scorpio to run away from a fight? > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, > Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:00:14 EST From: NetSurfCK@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Rookie Fans Message-ID: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >csm80316@port.ac.uk (VJC) writes: >Are rookie fans dangerous? Frankly, I prefer to be called "newbie" >In the UK we tend to have reasonable relationships with actors etc Whereas, here in the US we have unreasonable ones. >from Who and B7, so fandom seems a fairly friendly place, quite >unlike the theatricals and commercialism of the Trek scene. What's the Trek scene got to do with your opinion of "rookie fans"? This is Blake's 7. When I first read this I thought it was a joke. Then I realized it's for real. Admitedly, I'm a new fan, I'm in my early twenties, I'M AN ENTHUSIASTIC NEW FAN. And, I can ssure you I have enough people skills and common courtesy to treat my favorite actor with respect (if I should ever meet him). I dearly love Blake's 7 and I'll continue to enjoy it on my own, but THIS is not what I expected from fandom. Congratulations! You've eliminated one rookie fan. Cynthia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:09:12 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc. Message-ID: <19981030.000916.9966.1.Rilliara@juno.com> Ignore whatever date this printed. It's 3/19 On Fri, 19 Mar 99 01:45:00 GMT s.thompson8@genie.com writes: >On an old thread, as to whether Avon would die for Cally: I think I'd >have >to say no if we're staying purely within the aired canon, BUT I do see >enough vibes between them that I can easily imagine their relationship >developing to the point where she would indeed be in the same category >with Anna and Blake. I disagree, but only because I'm a hopeless romantic. I think in Sarcophagus, Avon was willing to risk his neck to save Cally. Both he and the alien believed Cally wouldn't kill him. Then there was the alien's comment about Avon making Cally "a touching farewell" and offering to be Cally for him in what seemed to be a romantic sense. He also had to choose between killing Cally, abandoning ship, and betting his life on Cally being unable to hurt him when she was already unable to defend herself. The look between them at the end is priceless. >And what is all this about "rookie fans"? >And I do agree that some people should pay more attention to unwritten >fannish codes of conduct, I don't know if I'm a rookie or not. Greener than some, more experienced than others. But I have a gift for putting my foot in it. I don't think I've managed to offend anyone I'm a fan of (yet), but if anyone ever sees me at a convention or something and about to socially self-destruct, please, hit me before it's too late. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:15:57 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: [Fwd: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant (was Assassin)] Message-ID: <36F1EB9C.7DC57C53@ptinet.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------84711DC75FE7B61F795F90FE" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------84711DC75FE7B61F795F90FE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, all. I'm forwarding these (IMHO) seriously perceptive comments from Ellynne to the list, as they came to me by mistake. Enjoy! Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila --------------84711DC75FE7B61F795F90FE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from x13.boston.juno.com (x13.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.27]) by mail.ptinet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13994 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rilliara@juno.com) by x13.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D524PVJV; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:34:19 EST To: mistral@ptinet.net Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:41:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon, Blake and a bit of Tarrant (was Assassin) Message-ID: <19981029.234127.9966.0.Rilliara@juno.com> References: <19990317042252.13352.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-25,31-32,39-40,43-45 From: "Ellynne G." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:17:21 -0800 mistral@ptinet.net writes: > > >Sally Manton wrote: > >> Mistral again : >> time... >> the basically moral person behind the nasty facade.> >> >> Ummm. He also sees the basically amoral person in there too. I think >> Avon would have a hard time shocking or even surprising Blake, >whichever >> way he turned in any situation. (All right, all right, until Gauda >> Prime.) > >Sally, I'd like some clarification here: what exactly do you meanwhen >you >say amoral? My understanding of the word means >'without morality'. Which I understand to mean a person would >do whatever is convenient or strikes one's fancy at the moment. >I don't ever see Avon as basing moral decisions on whims or >convenience. What I do see is him having a completely *different* >set of morals from the average person, which he *never* violates. Just to offer my opinion, I think Avon was a product of the really bad side of Federation Alpha life. He's been in an environment (certainly for a long time, possibly his whole life) where people are predators or prey. While he may have been exposed to Blake's kind of principles, it's been with the understanding that these are things you push on the ignorant masses to manipulate them. Because of that, he starts with very mixed feelings towards Blake. What Blake spouts is what any Federation politician back home might spout, speeches about the good of humanity and how they have to work together, etc. And Blake means it. Avon's instincts would tell him anyone who believed that was just one of the ignorant masses, while anyone who used that as a recruitment speech couldn't be sincere. But Blake is sincere and (whatever his weaknesses) he's not ignorant. Even worse, for Avon, he's drawn to this. Putting anything above self-interest is something Avon thinks of as a wrong choice. Ironically, it could be called the immoral choice, in Avon's world view. Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] --------------84711DC75FE7B61F795F90FE-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:32:55 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 list Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: what's so funny, etc. Message-ID: <36F1EF97.212AE657@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathryn, maybe you'd better not read this until you finish those stories you're working on ;) Ellynne G. wrote: > I disagree, but only because I'm a hopeless romantic. I think in > Sarcophagus, Avon was willing to risk his neck to save Cally. Both he > and the alien believed Cally wouldn't kill him. Then there was the > alien's comment about Avon making Cally "a touching farewell" and > offering to be Cally for him in what seemed to be a romantic sense. He > also had to choose between killing Cally, abandoning ship, and betting > his life on Cally being unable to hurt him when she was already unable to > defend herself. The look between them at the end is priceless. OTOH, all this really means is that Cally has feelings for Avon, and he knows it. The alien was absorbing Cally; she could have easily misinterpreted or overlooked Avon's actual side of the relationship. As I've said before, I was in the A/C camp myself for a while; but in the third season I found that the sequence 'Children of Auron', 'Rumors of Death', 'Sarcophagus', and 'Ultraworld' made it clear to me that (as somebody suggested re Dayna and Tarrant) Avon and Cally had thought about it; possibly tried it; and made a mutual decision that it wasn't going to work for them. As a lonely telepath who needed intimacy, and an introverted thinker who needed emotional distance, IMHO the relationship would have been painful for both of them, and totally unworkable. I think it's the pain of that knowledge that we're seeing in Cally's eyes at the end of 'Sarcophagus.' I do think there's love between them, just not romantic love. (That's a tragic-romantic viewpoint, don't you think?) Just IMHO, Mistral -- "Sentiment breeds weakness. Let it get ahold of you and you are dead."--Avon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:51:39 EST From: Pherber@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] what's so funny? Message-ID: <87efdcd.36f1f3fb@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alison asked: > And here's another question - what in B7 still makes you (I mean anyone) > laugh? What's the funniest bit? Vargas' glaringly white running shoes. Vila's little speech to the Federation guards on Centero: "Hello there! Excuse my wandering about your premises, but I was wondering if you can help me. I'm an escaped prisoner...I used to be a thief, but recently I've become interested in sabotage. In a small way, you understand, nothing too ambitious - I hate vulgarity, don't you? Anyway, I'm here to blow something up. What do you think would be most suitable?" He's so bright and charming about it, it makes me giggle every time. And, of course, Boris. How could *anyone* not laugh at Boris? Nina -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #106 **************************************