From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #135 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/135 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 135 Today's Topics: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat Re: [B7L] Telemovie Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie Re: [B7L] Telemovie Re: [B7L] Telemovie Re: PiC Rant (was Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila) [B7L] Inflection Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat Re: Man of Iron ; was [B7L] Telemovie [B7L] Re: B7 telemovie Re: PiC Rant (was Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila) Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings Re: [B7L] Re: B7 telemovie [B7L] Flat Robin 41 Re: [B7L] Telemovie [B7L] Re: Telemovie Re: [B7L] Telemovie [B7L] Sheelagh's tapes [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon (fwd) Re: [B7L] Telemovie [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon Re: Man of Iron ; was [B7L] Telemovie [B7L] web chat [B7L] Bullies, was PiC Rant Re: [B7L] Bullies, was PiC Rant Re: [B7L] Bullies, was PiC Rant ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:05:07 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 17 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > > > Re Man of Iron, Judith Proctor wrote: > > > Besides, Servalan would > > have killed him when she had the chance. > > Are you sure? She had several chances to kill him that > she didn't take. Tell me one and I'll tell you why she didn't. eg. In Terminal, Tarrant and co were brought in just as she was about to pull the trigger. IN 'Harvest of Kairos' she ordered Zen to fire on the surface fully intending to kill all of them. In 'Aftermath' she was out of ammunition initially and later on there was something she hoped to get from him. (Actually the scene where she's out of ammo is one of my favourite scenes for her. You can see Avon's admiration too.) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:55:49 +0100 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Judith Proctor" , "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie Message-Id: <199904171154.MAA20038@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I agree very much there. I think the writing pulled Avon one way and Clint > Eastwood/Humphry Bogart/Burt Lancaster pulled Paul the other way and the > resulting conflict gave Avon his most interesting layers and contrasts. > > All we need is a writer who can maintain that balance and we'd be a bunch of > happy campers. Sadly neither Paul nor Barry Letts qualify! -- "When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up shooting each other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each other in the back, do we?" http://members.aol.com/vulcancafe ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:54:58 +0100 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Julia Jones" , Cc: Subject: Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat Message-Id: <199904171154.MAA20035@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Of course, if they keep Paul Darrow from having anything to do with the > script, and get Chris Boucher to write it, we may be on to a winner. > Otherwise I fear it will be Dr Who telemovie all over again. Oh, it'll be worse than that. The Who movie was at least a reasonable SF TVM, even if wasn't quite Dr Who, and could have used a more coherent plot. What's being described here would just be an incestuous fanwank mess foisted upon us by talentless egos who think they know better than everybody else, and who tell us we should be grateful for any old crap. Speaking as a professional who's done Dr Who, DS9 and Voyager, I say they should at least have the professional decency to look back at the whole of series, and at least try to work out what people liked about it. As opposed to just doing a one-dimensional caricature of the last couple of episodes, which seems to be all they can remember.... -- "When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up shooting each other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each other in the back, do we?" http://members.aol.com/vulcancafe ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:48:02 +0100 From: "Dangermouse" To: "Julie Horner" , Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-Id: <199904171154.MAA20030@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie Horner wrote: > My philosophy is that if you expect things to turn out alright then they > usually do. If it is any comfort this has worked for me for more than three > dozen years now so yes, I am an optimist! Better to expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised, than expect the best and be woefully disappointed... -- "When two hunters go after the same prey they usually end up shooting each other in the back - and we don't want to shoot each other in the back, do we?" http://members.aol.com/vulcancafe ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:31:07 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 telemovie Message-ID: <006201be88e7$5188df20$b75395c1@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sarah Berry > writes: > Interesting, maybe we should lobby Brian that Barry Letts should >write it rather than Paul Darrow? ;-) and then Julie Jones said: >Of course, if they keep Paul Darrow from having anything to do with >the script, and get Chris Boucher to write it, we may be on to a >winner. and Judith: > All we need is a writer who can maintain that balance and we'd be a >bunch of happy campers. to which Dangermouse replied: >Sadly neither Paul nor Barry Letts qualify! So far I don't recall seeing any mention of who *is* actually writing it, there was no indication in the chat the other day. Some people seem to be leaping to the conclusion that it is Darrow and / or Letts and pre-judging it on that basis. Maybe we should wait until more details are revealed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:42:46 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: <006901be88e8$f1ff8e80$b75395c1@orac> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com > >I think we should remain optimistic about the movie until >proven otherwise, and be grateful that FINALLY there is going to be >some new B7 television to watch. I mean, it is all very fine and good >to watch the old reruns and read the fanzines and listen to the tapes, >but to actually see the group (or at least a large portion of it, I hope) >together on the screen again ... well, I think it will be lovely. Thank goodness! Someone else on the list who is looking forward to it. For years people have moaned that the shows are never repeated on mainstream TV. If someone is finally trying to give us some new stuff and the fans turn round and say "Ugh! What a terrible idea", then surely that would signal the end of any broadcast Blake 7 past or present, audio or visual. I mean who would ever bother again? It seems a bit like the Angel Gabriel appearing to the faithful to say that he has the Second Coming pencilled in for a week next Thursday and the faithful saying "Don't bother, he won't be a patch on the last one, we are happy as we are". Well I suppose that last statement might be just a touch hyperbolical but that is sort of how I feel. I am genuinely surprised at all the negative reactions I have seen so far. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:24:51 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: <059501be88f0$89a0d4e0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mistal said - >I think, though, that I'd rather see them together doing 'Midsummer >Night's Dream' In fact Josette Simon is currently playing Titania at Stratford there has been an uproar in my local paper because a party of schoolkids from a church school in Coventry went to see this production. Alas the scene between Titania and Bottom (as Donkey) was a bit too.. ahem.. improper. I was irresistibly reminded of the flourishing Dayna/Og subgenre.. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:32:03 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "B7 List" Subject: Re: PiC Rant (was Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila) Message-ID: <059601be88f0$8abca520$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >And I can't help thinking that if Avon acted the way the feminist movement >seems to think all men ought to act, he certainly wouldn't be the most popular >fellow on this list. > >All throw things ---- now! >Mistral Well I'm a feminist and the way I 'think men ought to act' can be summarised like this: 1 - Don't push me around 2 - Don't hurt my kids 3 - uhh... that's it Well, I guess I'd include other women and kids too :-) So, I'd say that Avon's behaviour is more or less in line with how I want men to behave. The men feminists don't like are the weak (*) ones who can't compete with other men so turn on women and children instead. I wouldn't put Avon in this category. Alison (*) I mean weak in character of course, no aspersions on the puny. I like puny. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:44:15 +0930 From: "Martin Dunn" To: Subject: [B7L] Inflection Message-Id: <17245028160135@domain6.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bwah ha ha!!! I AT LAST have free and unimpeded access to my email account! OH HOW THE SUFFERING WILL BEGIN!!!!!! For instance- Have you ever noticed how inflection of delivered lines can change the banal into the magnetic? Or vice versa. Case in point- Travis Mk 1 in "Seek-Locate-Destroy". Line- "I had the weaponry division make a few additions..." Inflection- " I had the weaponry.......de-vee-shon...make a few...additions..." Line "Launch the interceptors!" Inflection- "LAUNCH the interceptors!" Just asking! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:31:08 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: B7 List Subject: Re: Fw: [B7L] Re: Brian Lighthill Chat Message-ID: In message <371817A7.791A3EB3@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes >The quality of the videos we get over here in America, for >example, is atrocious. And I'm talking manufacturing quality, not the >flaws from the original masters, which could be cleaned up quite a >bit, too, if they had any concerns at all about giving us decent >product. The manufacturing quality of the PAL videos left much to be desired as well. Fortunately I bought mine from my local independent shop. I don't think a high street chain would have put quite as much effort into repeatedly sending back the duds and demanding replacements until I got ones of usable (not acceptable, just usable) quality. Thank you, Playback, for sending all of seasons 3 and 4 back at least once, and three times in a couple od cases. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:18:09 EDT From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: Man of Iron ; was [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: <735090e0.244a4681@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith wrote: You find that incredible? Well, let me make my statement a little stronger. I not only liked 'Man of Iron,' I loved it. I have even written a review of it in the May 1996 issue of the Avon Newsletter (No. 63), which Ann Bown apparently found reasonable enough to print. To summarize my own review, "The story has Avon stranded on a planet, fighting a group of deadly, humanoid robots. Avon's goal is to destroy their creator, Algor, a self-absorbed, evil and, of course, slightly crazy genius, with delusions of grandeur, who likes to, in his spare time, experiment on humans. It takes place sometime before 'ORBIT,' and of all the Scorpio crew, Vila is the only one interested in saving Avon." IMHO, Paul did an excellent job with his characterizations. The Avon/Vila relationship is beautifully developed, as is the Avon/Servalan one. And there are some great lines in the script. For instance, Servalan is her usual nasty self when she says to Avon, "Emotionally, Gabor [the super robot] is about as impressive as you are, but as a warrior, he is a hundred times more effective." In this way, she not only gets to throw at Avon her usual criticism, but also tells the audience just how strong this robot is. And Dayna gets to say to Tarrant, "That was clever. Tarrant must be brighter than he looks." This allows the author to inject some humor into the story while giving Dayna a chance to tell Tarrant what she really thinks of him. (Or perhaps it's just good-natured teasing.) Although I admit that there are a few minor flaws in the story, I thought it was not only a lot of fun, but very true to the spirit of the original series. For Mistral and the rest of you who are curious about the script, be brave and give it a chance! Gail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:39:42 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: B7 telemovie Message-ID: <199904171839_MC2-7270-B8B9@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sally wrote: >Even at this (two days after the announcement!) >stage, I have no problem with stating firmly and >clearly THE TELEMOVIE WILL NOT BE CANON. > It's just another PGP. I didn't accept the Dr Who > telemovie as canon either - or the Avengers movie. I agree entirely with Sally (and mostly with Judith). The 52 are canon; I enjoy fanfic, I won't actually object to the BBC trying to compete with it, but, like Vince and Stuart say, "PAUL McGANN DOESN'T COUNT." Avon killed Blake, and everything else is just speculation. Mistral wrote: >I think, though, that I'd rather see them together >doing 'Midsummer Night's Dream' Had to laugh - I've been waiting for someone to mention the current production of the Dream. For those who haven't heard, Josette Simon is starring as Titania: her liaison with Bottom was so... sensual that some schoolchildren walked out in protest. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:09:19 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: PiC Rant (was Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila) Message-ID: <3719149E.BB0DBA24@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alison Page wrote: > Well I'm a feminist and the way I 'think men ought to act' can be summarised > like this: > > 1 - Don't push me around > 2 - Don't hurt my kids > 3 - uhh... that's it > > Well, I guess I'd include other women and kids too :-) So, I'd > say that Avon's behaviour is more or less in line with how I want men to > behave. You'll get no argument from me on any of this, Alison, but it's not remotely like the agenda of organized feminism in the U.S. I loathe men who bully women; but I equally loathe women who bully men. It's why I stopped thinking of myself as a feminist nearly two decades ago; I think of myself as a 'personist' now. > The men feminists don't like are the weak (*) ones who can't compete > with other men so turn on women and children instead. Again, not my experience of feminism. If organized feminism limited itself to protecting women and children from predatory males, and lobbying for equal opportunities for women, I'd still be a feminist. > I wouldn't put Avon in > this category. Of course not; Avon doesn't like bullies of any ilk. (I make a distinction here from his occasional verbal savagery, which he would view as wit, persuasion, etc.) He's certainly not P.C. from the view of organized feminism, however, because he won't surrender his power or his masculinity. > Alison > > (*) I mean weak in character of course, no aspersions on the puny. I like > puny. What I was trying to say in my previous post on this thread, however, is that I think it's entirely counterproductive for women to use violence to get respect from men, and I object to being characterized as weak and passive because I won't be a party to it. I could wish that I was more articulate. :-) Cheers, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:51:35 EDT From: Bizarro7@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/17/99 1:04:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mistral@ptinet.net writes: << "You can't expect anyone to take a meglomaniac with blue skin seriously." >> Spoken by someone who has never seen Bronze Age Methos in HIGHLANDER. *chuckle*... Leah ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 18:26:12 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: B7 telemovie Message-ID: <19990418012612.79439.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Hariet wrote: Ahh. Harriet. As far as I am concerned Avon *shot* Blake. No one checked for a pulse. No one checked if he was breathing. (They did have their minds on other things, like getting shot themselves.) No one saw what happened next.) I'm firmly convinced that Blake survived. (Wishful thinking? Who says so..? Oh, all right.) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:41:50 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Flat Robin 41 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990417194150.007f0390@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Susan Beth for inspiration. ------ "Don't move!" Jenna shouted, her weapon at the ready yet again. "Fistulous Bureau of Inquiry!" added Withers, struggling to cock his pocket crossbow. "Get your hands where we can see them, and don't try anything science can't explain!" He pressed the torch he'd been carrying into Jenna's free hand. Its light barely cut through the copious dust that had been stirred up beneath the stage -- just enough to eerily underlight the pale faces of Persnickety's would-be assassins. "You are, aren't you?" said Jenna, moving closer to them. "You're mutoids. I was right the first time I saw you. I should have killed you then." Suzanne blinked dust from her eyes. "Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh...maybe," answered Lynnette. "And you should at least have *tried* to kill me." Jenna looked genuinely puzzled. "Do you -- don't you know who I am?" "You are Jenna Stannis," responded Lynnette. "Terrorist." Suzanne nodded. "We had standing orders to kill you on sight." "Well, here I am," said Jenna. "On sight. Start killing." Fistulous scratched his head with his pocket crossbow. "Skull'Ee, look up the word 'mutoid'," he murmured to his pocket. "We are no longer officers of the...F-word," said Lynnette. "I thought it was impossible for mutoids to overcome their conditioning." "So did we," said Suzanne. "If we ever really thought at all." She grinned, which spectacle caused Fistulous Withers to emit a high-pitched yelp of terror. "But it seems we were wrong," said Lynnette. Jenna recalled the delightful choice with which -- as a young, healthy, *female* specimen of recidivistic criminality -- she had been presented at the time of her sentencing: one *could* go to Cygnus Alpha (which, it was made abundantly clear, was always *very* grateful for the few women it received) or one could...make a commitment to contribute constructively to the Federation. It had been tempting. To thrive on the penal planet (that she might be forced to settle simply for survival hadn't even crossed her mind) would take an awful lot of work. The other choice would only have required her to -- she ground her teeth -- let go. Just long enough for her mouth to pronounce the words 'I volunteer'. And that would have been her future seen to. She had thought. She lowered her gun, and motioned Fistulous (peering fiercely over her shoulder) to holster his weapon as well. "Be that as it may," Jenna said, taking a cautious step toward Suzanne and Lynnette, "you've each got a throwing knife in one hand and a dagger in the other--" "We're trying to conserve ammo," said Suzanne, patting her precious Federation-issue sidearm. "--what I mean is, you're still evidently intending to kill *someone*." "Well -- yes. But not you," said Lynnette. "Not unless someone pays us to," Suzanne amended. Jenna smiled, and relaxed. Here, at last, was the kind of human interaction with which she felt truly at ease. *** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:26:33 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: <19990418082633.A1036@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Apr 17, 1999 at 04:42:46PM +0100, Julie Horner wrote: > > From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com > > > >I think we should remain optimistic about the movie until > >proven otherwise, and be grateful that FINALLY there is going to be >some > > Thank goodness! Someone else on the list who is looking forward > to it. > > It seems a bit like the Angel Gabriel appearing to the faithful to say that > he has the Second Coming pencilled in for a week next Thursday and the > faithful saying "Don't bother, he won't be a patch on the last one, we are > happy as we are". Well, no, it's as if the Angel Gabriel said that he has the Second Coming pencilled in for a week next Thursday, but he's not sure if Jesus will be too busy to come for it, in which case, we'll just have to make do with Brian. Something, indeed, will be coming. But we are doubtful if it will actually be something which could be *accurately* labelled "Blake's 7". No matter what they choose to call it. And, no, I'm not saying that it is impossible to do these things right. I actually *liked* the Doctor Who movie; I simply fast-forward through all the bits that have "The Master" in them. Paul McGann rocked as the 8th Doctor, and I do consider the movie to be canon. It could definitely have been better, but I do enjoy the *parts* of it that they did get right. But Barry Letts and Brian Lighthill's track record is not good. Bring back Chris Boucher! Kathryn A. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:36:32 +1000 From: "Afenech" To: "lysator" Subject: [B7L] Re: Telemovie Message-Id: <06305518631557@domain4.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > > From: Bizarro7@aol.com > > If you love something, you want to see the integrity of it preserved. You don't just settle for anything with the name of it slapped on. > I agree very much - it is why I so disliked 'The sevenfold crown'. I anyway cannot like it just because it has the theme music and the voices - because, for me, there is nothing else in it which is 'Blakes 7' to me. I would much rather have nothing new than material that shows so little respect or interest in what is so special about 'Blakes 7' I'd much rather read fanfiction. The film if it eventuates will be, so it appears, produced by Brian Lighthill who had an opportunity to show if he had any interest in what the fans thought of what he was producing and has shown he has none. For this reason, remembering the frightful rubbish posing as 'Blakes 7' that is 'The sevenfold crown' ( I wont buy the new one) - I have no confidence that the film will be any different. Pat Fenech ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:26:36 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 17 Apr, Julie Horner wrote: > For years people have moaned that the shows are never repeated on mainstream > TV. If someone is finally trying to give us some new stuff and the fans turn > round and say "Ugh! What a terrible idea", then surely that would signal the > end of any broadcast Blake 7 past or present, audio or visual. I mean who > would ever bother again? > It seems a bit like the Angel Gabriel appearing to the faithful to say that > he has the Second Coming pencilled in for a week next Thursday and the > faithful saying "Don't bother, he won't be a patch on the last one, we are > happy as we are". > > Well I suppose that last statement might be just a touch hyperbolical but > that is sort of how I feel. I am genuinely surprised at all the negative > reactions I have seen so far. If Chris Boucher's name had been mentioned in connection with it, I would have been shouting in delight. If Gareth Thomas's name was mentioned, I'd be looking fairly happy. The script matters more than anything else though. Dearly though I love Gareth, I'd rather see it written by Chris and without Blake if I had to choose. Actually, as long as Barry Letts isn't involved and it's written by someone who has watched and loved the original series, then I'll probably be happy. Basically, the Angel Gabirel has to date given us one dreadful radio play and one mediocre one. The Dr Who TV movie had a dreadful script and even Paul McGann's excellent performance wasn't enough to save it. Show me a good scriptwriter and I'll give you a positive reaction to raise the roof. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:51:01 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List cc: Space City Subject: [B7L] Sheelagh's tapes Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII The Together Again tapes will be available from Linda Knights at Mediawest. Some of them are available from me by mail order (see my web page for details) The prize drawn out of a hat for those who pre-ordered Solstice was won by Rachel Hayward. The tapes contain relaxed interviews with Paul Darrow, Gareth Thomas and various other people who acted/directed/produced Blake's 7. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:44:20 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon (fwd) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I think Tanja meant to send this one to the list, so I'm forwarding it. > > Re Man of Iron, Judith Proctor wrote: > > > > > Besides, Servalan would > > > have killed him when she had the chance. > > > > Are you sure? She had several chances to kill him that > > she didn't take. > > Tell me one and I'll tell you why she didn't. eg. (snipping away examples where I agree with Judith) What about Rumours of Death? I never believed Servalan wanted to sent up a corpse to the Liberator and would have killed Avon if not distracted by the last Anna-follower. She could have used Avon, living or dead, as bait for the others, making another attempt to get the Liberator. At the very least, she could have let him questioned about all his technical knowledge (Orac, teleporter system) before killing him. It was the perfect opportunity - he was completely shattered by Anna's death, as close to suicidal as we ever saw him in the series before the end, without a bracelet and without a gun. If she had just said she'd let him go, of course, he would never have done so, but ordering him to put his bracelet back on through a pretext they were both able to save faces. After all, Servalan isn't used to kind gestures. Naturally, this is just my interpretation, but I think they were both at their most vulnerable at that point (for different reasons, of course), and it was the one example of Servalan showing affection (as opposed to that usual intriguing mixture of sexual attraction, rivalry and admiration) towards Avon. Tanja I think Servalan's feelings were fairly ambivalent at that point. She felt se ought to kill him, and was going through the motions, but after he'd gone, she gives a little half-smile as if to say that part of her is glad he got away. Erm. If she intended to use him as bait or question him, she wouldn't have told him to put the breacelet on. Judith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:41:48 +1000 From: "Afenech" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-Id: <07365547941586@domain5.bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------- > From: Judith Proctor > If Chris Boucher's name had been mentioned in connection with it, I would have been shouting in delight.> Yes! > If Gareth Thomas's name was mentioned, I'd be looking fairly happy.> Yes! > Actually, as long as Barry Letts isn't involved and it's written by someone who has watched and loved the original series, then I'll probably be happy.> Yes! > Basically, the Angel Gabirel has to date given us one dreadful radio play ...> Yes! > The Dr Who TV movie had a dreadful script and even Paul McGann's excellent performance wasn't enough to save it.> Yes! > Show me a good scriptwriter> particularly if his name is Chris Boucher < and I'll give you a positive reaction to raise the roof.> Yes! Pat F ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:22:00 +0200 From: Angria@t-online.de (Tanja Kinkel) To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Servalan not killing Avon Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Judith Proctor schrieb: > I think Tanja meant to send this one to the list, so I'm forwarding it. Indeed. Sorry about bungling it, I'm new to this list business. > > I think Servalan's feelings were fairly ambivalent at that point. She felt se > ought to kill him, and was going through the motions, but after he'd gone, she > gives a little half-smile as if to say that part of her is glad he got away. > > Erm. If she intended to use him as bait or question him, she wouldn't have > told > him to put the breacelet on. That's what I meant. There was just one reason why she should order him to put the bracelet back on - to give him a chance to get away. Anything else (killing, capturing, questioning) could have been done without this. Tanja > Judith > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:26:58 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: Man of Iron ; was [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat 17 Apr, VulcanXYZ@aol.com wrote: > Judith wrote: > > > > You find that incredible? Well, let me make my statement a little stronger. > I not only liked 'Man of Iron,' I loved it. I have even written a review of > it in the May 1996 issue of the Avon Newsletter (No. 63), which Ann Bown > apparently found reasonable enough to print. No, I don't find it incredible. As I said, tastes differ. I'm sure you wouldn't like some of the things that I enjoy. You don't have to agree with a review to print it (which isn't meant to imply anything about whether Ann likes/dislikes 'Man of Iron'). To do that would be to try and impose your own view on everyone else and I see that as wrong. I'll print any review I am offered on my web page as long as it's in reasonably good English. If you were to look at the reviews for 'Queen the Eye' for example, you would find one from someone who thinks it's dreadful and another from a fan who really loved it. Where there are things that generate polarised opinions (as Paul's writing often does), I actually prefer to have a review from both sides of the camp. So, anyone want to send me reviews for 'Avon a Terrible Aspect'? (I'd ask for ones for 'Man of Iron', but the web page doesn't extend to covering scripts at present.) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:39:00 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] web chat Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Having now seen the original text of the web chat, I can see one point where things may have been slightly mis-quoted. > > Harriet M: " Still trying to talk Blake's 7. Character aspects which worried > me in the last play: - I couldn't believe in Avon visiting a nightclub called > The Purple Nightingale on a regular basis, and I certainly couldn't buy his > remark about enjoying the infliction of pain. Not bothered about killing when > it was necessary, fine, but enjoying it? I never saw any evidence of that. > Couldn't a script editor who's really familiar with the series - ie Chris > Boucher - have a go at sorting this out a bit? " > > Brian Lighthill: " Harriet, I think it's quite possible that Avon does enjoy > killing people. In fact, in conversation with Paul Darrow he always has said > to me how he likes Avon to be really really hard. It's always difficult to get > all the previous four series into some form of continuity with a new > production. The fan club provided Barry Letts and myself with a bible of > Blake's 7 terms. We followed those faithfully. But, times move on and we don't > want Blake's 7 to be a fossil. We have to move on both from the actors point > of view and from the point of view from attracting new audiences. " It's a moot point as to whether Paul's term 'really really hard' includes sadism/joy of killing people or not, but it doesn't necessarily do so. Judith PS. It was me who gave him the Sevencyclopaedia . PPS. I agree that the B7 shouldn't be fossilised, one of the series's strengths was that characters did change and develop over time, but I do feel that the future should be a logical development of the past. To do that, you have to be familiar with the past. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:05:45 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Bullies, was PiC Rant Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 18 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > Again, not my experience of feminism. If organized feminism limited > itself to protecting women and children from predatory males, and > lobbying for equal opportunities for women, I'd still be a feminist. > > > I wouldn't put Avon in > > this category. > > Of course not; Avon doesn't like bullies of any ilk. (I make a > distinction here from his occasional verbal savagery, which he > would view as wit, persuasion, etc.) He's certainly not P.C. > from the view of organized feminism, however, because he > won't surrender his power or his masculinity. I think Avon bullies Vila, particularly in the later series. They all did. The only person I can recall who never picked on Vila was Gan. It seemed to slide from good natured teasing early on combined with annoyance at Vila's refusal to do much work, into something rather nastier as everyone got stressed and used Vila as the easiest way of offloading some of it. (This is all characters, not just Avon) There were times when any individual might be nice to him or share a joke, but they seemed to becoem fewer and fewer. Someone cited 'Gambit' to me yesterday as a lovely example of Avon and Vila doing a heist together for the sheer fun of it. Compare this with the less relaxed 4th season environment and you have one of the reasons I love the earlier seasons so much. Judith PS. Pity Robert Holmes is dead. He wrote some great episodes and always wrote well for Avon and Vila. I think 'Gambit', 'Killer' and 'Orbit' were his. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:46:13 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Bullies, was PiC Rant Message-ID: <3719B7F4.4186A884@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judith Proctor wrote: > I think Avon bullies Vila, particularly in the later series. They all did. The > only person I can recall who never picked on Vila was Gan. Perhaps it depends on how you define bully. Everybody got more short-tempered in the fourth series, as you say. I still view Avon-Vila as a sibling relationship, but in the fourth series, they're just having a few *very* bad days. I don't remember Vila ever showing real fear of Avon until 'Orbit', whereas he was afraid of Tarrant more than once in the third season, and showed some trepidation with regard to Blake once or twice as well. Vila always seemed to feel free to pick on Avon in return. I define bullying as to coerce someone into doing what you want them to do through threat (usually of violence). Avon certainly told Vila what to do, and yelled at him from time to time, but he never threatened to hurt him or ditch him -- especially in the fourth season. Quite the contrary, he listened seriously to Vila's suggestion's (using the asteroid for cover in Stardrive), trusted his expertise (Games), even made complimentary statements about him *without* disguising them as sarcasm (Gold), and conversed with him in a discernably more intimate fashion than the others (specifically, he often used Vila's name *within* a conversation they were having , as opposed to just using someone's name to get their attention or announce to whom he was speaking -- usually a sign of intimacy; also, they have several conversational asides.) What I see in the fourth series is them becoming even closer, as the last two surviving members of the original group; and the closer you are to someone, the more often they get on your nerves, and unfortunately, the more likely you are to take out your frustrations on them. I don't call that bullying, although of course, it isn't nice. > PS. Pity Robert Holmes is dead. He wrote some great episodes and always wrote > well for Avon and Vila. I think 'Gambit', 'Killer' and 'Orbit' were his. "Amen to that!"--Mistral "And so say all of us."--Keiller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:33:59 EDT From: Tigerm1019@aol.com To: mistral@ptinet.net, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Bullies, was PiC Rant Message-ID: <674b49fe.244b1d27@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-04-18 06:47:11 EDT, mistral@ptinet.net writes: << I don't remember Vila ever showing real fear of Avon until 'Orbit', whereas he was afraid of Tarrant more than once in the third season, and showed some trepidation with regard to Blake once or twice as well. Vila always seemed to feel free to pick on Avon in return. >> I disagree. Vila seemed to get over any real fear of Tarrant after City at the Edge of the World. In Moloch, Vila knew Tarrant wouldn't kill him. When Tarrant pulled a gun on him, he was hurt and disappointed, but not afraid. The other thing I noticed that many fans seem to miss is that neither Vila nor Tarrant hold any grudges over either incident. Vila sure seemed to be wary of Avon in Terminal, and he actually saved Tarrant's life in Rescue. He wouldn't have saved someone he genuinely feared. Through the rest of the fourth series I noticed that Tarrant was the one who actually listened to what Vila had to say and took the time to answer his questions, no matter how silly. Conversely, Vila seemed to become increasingly wary of Avon, until the Orbit shuttle incident put the final nail in the coffin. Vila would never trust Avon again after that. He knew Avon would kill any of them if it served his purpose. I think it's another case of Avon being patted on the head for behavior that Blake or Tarrant would be crucified for. Tiger M -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #135 **************************************