From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #139 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/139 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 139 Today's Topics: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) [B7L] Man of Iron for sale Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) [B7L] telemovie Re: [B7L] test Re: [B7L] videos Re: [B7L] tests and Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) [B7L] Re: Bullies Re: [B7L] Re: Avon & Rubbish Re: [B7L] telemovie Re: [B7L] tests and suckerdom Re: [B7L] telemovie Re: [B7L] Scripts Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) [B7L]Man of Iron Re: [B7L] telemovie Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Re: [B7L] Re:Bullies, was PiC Rant [B7L] Re: test [B7L] Where to find me... Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings Re: [B7L] Telemovie RE: [B7L] test RE: [B7L] Re:Bullies, was PiC Rant Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) [B7L] Orac [B7L] Dayna( was scripts) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:35:47 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 20 Apr, VulcanXYZ@aol.com wrote: > Thank you very much for taking the time to explain exactly what you meant. I > was rather nervous about disagreeing with you, believe it or not, and am glad > to finally understand your meaning. I hope you'll continue to disagree with me whenever appropriate. > And a couple of people were glad that I had brought up Man of Iron and talked > about it, so I believe that it all worked out to the good. It is certainly > true that the world holds a plethora of ideas and opinions, as is so often > shown on this list. That's what makes the list so fun to read! Incidentally, although I'm not a great fan of Paul's writing, I ought to add that there are others equally bad. Ben Steed comes instantly to mind though his episodes aren't the very worst ('Harvest of Kairos' and 'Power' and 'Moloch'. If you think he has a thing about men dominating woman, then you're probably correct.) I can't realy blame Allan Prior for 'Animals' as it might have been a very different episode if it had featured Cally, instead of Dayna, as he originally wrote it. Besides, he did 'Horizon' which proves he can write. Roger Parkes wrote 'Headhunter' (but I'll forgive him because he also did the much better 'Children of Auron'). Jim Follett gets the credit for 'Stardrive' and 'Dawn of the Gods'. But Chris Boucher gave us gems like 'Star One', 'Trial', 'Shadow', 'City at the Edge of the World', 'Rumours of Death', Death-Watch' and 'Blake'. Is it any wonder that we'd like to see a movie written by Chris? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 00:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Borg To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Man of Iron for sale Message-ID: <19990420075354.8784.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Available to buy at: gbp5.75 in P&P to the UK, with gbp1 from each sold going to charity. Also available for shipping worldwide. http://www.horizon.org.uk/merchandise/printed/ManofIron/ === -- Peter Borg peter_borg@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:46:27 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <003e01be8b0a$7732bbe0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BTW while we are on the subject of which scripts Paul Darrow liked. In the interview I transcribed he says his favourites in the previous 3 series were 'Star One' and 'Rumours of Death'. Looking forward to series 4 (which hadn't at that time been broadcast) he mentions 'Orbit' and 'Blake' as being good, in fact he raves about 'Blake' at some length. Now personally, I think these are quite good choices, showing some discernment. Of course these are all scripts with good opportunities for Avon to emote and snarl so I guess that is an influence on his opinion too. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:51:34 +0100 From: Murray Smith To: Lysator Subject: [B7L] telemovie Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Gail wrote (re "Man of Iron"): >>and of all the Scorpio crew, Vila is the only one interested in >>saving Avon. > >This I would have found very hard to accept in an aired episode. It >violates MY >established B7 dynamics. I can understand that they might have considered the >difficulty or danger in trying to rescue Avon, and that they might have >weighed >the odds of being ABLE to rescue him against the amount risk. But that no one >else was INTERESTED in trying to rescue him is not canon. I think it's been >accepted (even by the Tarrant haters) that Tarrant would not leave a crew >member >stranded. I can't see Dayna or Soolin being willing to leave him either. >Even >Avon wouldn't leave a crew member stranded. > >I did enjoy the humor and clever lines Gail quoted :) And, since I quite >naturally forgive Avon anything ;) ;), I would probably have accepted the >super >macho Avon as robot killer... > >Candace > I agree with you here, in that each member of the crew would want to rescue the other if that person got into difficulties. We see this as early as 'Seek-Locate-Destroy' with Blake's rescue of Cally. While he was correctly stopped from rescuing her at the start, because the Federation would be waiting, he was able to do so later. Quite apart from his sense of ethics in wanting to save his friends from the Federation, there was also the pragmatic angle that if the crew knew that he and their crewmates would do their best to rescue him or her, it would have a good effect on morale. Abandoning a crew member without any effort to save him or her would, of course, have the opposite effect on the remaining crew. This pragmatic angle in particularly evident in the third season, where the crew not only rescue each other, such as Cally in 'Ultraworld'; they also support each others' personal agendas: Cally trying to help her people, Avon trying to avenge Anna Grant's death, and Tarrant trying to avenge his brother's death. Murray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:42:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Una McCormack To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] test Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Neil said: >Aha - I just knew at least one of you would click this one to read it >even if it does say 'test' in the subject header. Should have put a >fiver on it, eh? Sorry, Neil, but they all come through automatically on the digest. So you owe me a fiver. Una ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 05:10:53 EDT From: AdamWho@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] videos Message-ID: <4db92d5c.244d9e9d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<>Mistral wrote: >The quality of the videos we get over here in America, for example, >is atrocious. And I'm talking manufactyuring quality, not the flaws >from the original masters... Gee, I'm really surprised to hear this. I bought all 26 tapes from Suncoast here in Southern California and the quality is superb. The picture is sharp and clear (not blurry or fuzzy at all), the sound is excellent (even the music is unflawed). Everyone in our group bought their B7 tapes from Suncoast and no one has had a problem. Believe me, we'd be yelling if we couldn't see those gorgeous Avon eyes clearly. Candace>> I'm up to tape 10 or 11, and had few problems. There is one small problem. Tape 4 (Mission to Destiny\Duel), I had to shove the tape in and out of the VCR several times (seemed like hundreds), because every time I'd put the tape in, it would immediately come back out. Has anyone else had this problem? Maybe it's just the VCR. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:42:13 PDT From: "Stephen Date" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] tests and Message-ID: <19990420094213.48176.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Gail wrote: >>Dang, I've been caught! I always read the tests. Any other suckers >out there? >>Gail and Joanne added >I claim victimhood. I started at the top of what was in the in-box >and kept going, and so I didn't know there was someone testing. >Sally Manton, Stephen Date, anyone else on Hotmail - same for you? I fear that I succumbed to the wiles of the fiendish Faulkner for the same reason. To paraphrase Avon and Dayna in Rumours of Death. "You know the trouble with Neil's posts" "They're much to interesting to killfile" "Irritating isn't it" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:13:19 PDT From: "Stephen Date" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <19990420101324.89941.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Alison wrote: > >BTW while we are on the subject of which scripts Paul Darrow liked. >In the interview I transcribed he says his favourites in the >previous 3 series were'Star One' and 'Rumours of Death'. Looking >forward to series 4 (which hadn't at that time been broadcast) he >mentions 'Orbit' and 'Blake' as being good,in fact he raves about >'Blake' at some length. >Now personally, I think these are quite good choices, showing some >discernment. Of course these are all scripts with good opportunities >for Avon to emote and snarl so I guess that is an influence on his >opinion too. I must say if the telemovie is half as good as any of the above then it should pass muster. My abiding nightmare is to log on to hotmail and (having scrolled through sundry tests) get a post to the effect that the working title is "Avon: Return to Ultraworld", that Ben Steed and Trevor Hoyle are collaborating on the script, that the cast of East Enders are all going to be in it and Eric Roberts has agreed to take on the role of Father Abraham.....(Elynne you have one scary imagination) Altogether now la-la-la-la-la Stephen. P.S. Apropos of Ultraworld, does anyone else think that Josette Simon might have had a flash of deja-vu when she discovered that the Director of Midsummer Night's Dream expected her to get excessively sensual with a donkey ? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:16:35 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: Bullies Message-ID: <199904200616_MC2-72B1-4DC5@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sally replied to Tiger M: >> In Moloch, Vila knew Tarrant wouldn't kill him. >>When Tarrant pulled a gun on him, he was hurt >> and disappointed, but not afraid. ... >The fact that, in Moloch, Vila *knows* he won't do it >doesn't matter. Tarrant again intends him to believe it > (well, if he! doesn't, hed be a blithering idiot to try it, and he isn't.) As a proud member of Tarrant Numquam, I love this encounter, because it seems to me the moment at which the relationship turns round. Vila dismisses Tarrant's threat as if he's a blustering child (maybe he suddenly remembers their age-gap and thinks "Hey, what I have been doing letting this adolescent push me around all these months?"). And Tarrant completely loses control of the situation, because Vila's called his bluff and he's got nothing left to throw at him. The scene stops there, but I see Vila sauntering off while Tarrant sits on the floor, jaw dropping as he tries to work out what to do next. >>The other thing I noticed that many fans seem to >>miss is that neither Vila nor Tarrant hold any grudges >>over either incident. > >That Vila doesn't hold a grudge is to *his* credit, and >cannot be held as a point in favour of Tarrant. Vila doesn't hold a grudge because he won the game, and thus the match. Tarrant's not going to try strong-arming him again, and they both know it. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:40:17 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Avon & Rubbish Message-ID: <19990420104021.10162.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Sarah wrote: Avon singing in the bathtub...lovely idea, Sarah, but *what*? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:45:50 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] telemovie Message-ID: <19990420104557.17690.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Gail wrote : (re "Man of Iron"): Agreed. Tarrant would have weighted the odds (if someone could make him stop long enough) then charged ahead anyway. Loyalty was one of his strongest characteristics...actually, the one *I* can see hanging back furthest is Vila!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:56:13 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] tests and suckerdom Message-ID: <19990420105617.60384.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Joanne wrote: 'Fraid I can't blame Hotmail, just my own incorrigible inquisitiveness. Yep, I was suckered. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:21:40 EDT From: VulcanXYZ@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] telemovie Message-ID: <9b04f770.244dbd44@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote (re: "Man of Iron"): Goodness, I think I may have misled all of you here. I believe that in the beginning the others are reluctant to help, but that eventually they all get involved. It has been a while since I read the actual script. (Now, where did I stick it?) Gail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:43:38 PDT From: "Sally Manton" To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts Message-ID: <19990420114342.79815.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Alison wrote: Now personally, I think these are quite good choices, showing some discernment. Of course these are all scripts with good opportunities for Avon to emote and snarl so I guess that is an influence on his opinion too.> Not that we have any objections to a reasonable amount of either emoting or snarling... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:08:40 BST From: "Tor Avon" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <19990420120841.94704.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Hello people. >>BTW while we are on the subject of which scripts Paul Darrow liked. I wouldn't say that his choices of episodes were ever very discerning, apart fromt the fact that he hated Harvest and Animals, he actually liked Sarcophagus, and all the snarling and bitching in Power. Plus he only liked Deliverance because of Meegat. >I must say if the telemovie is half as good as any of the above then >it should pass muster. My abiding nightmare is to log on to hotmail >and (having scrolled through sundry tests) get a post to the effect >that the working title is "Avon: Return to Ultraworld", that Ben >Steed and Trevor Hoyle are collaborating on the script Actually, I've just submitted an 'Ultraworld' sequel to Brian Lighthill for radio production consideration, so don't be so damned defeatist! There's a lot we don't know about the Ultra, they might be more interesting than you'd expect!! My abiding nightmare is that Paul Darrow might write the script!! Tor ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:30:22 +0100 From: "Julie Horner" To: Subject: [B7L]Man of Iron Message-ID: <01be8b29$8f9020a0$170201c0@pc23.Fishnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gail said: >Furthermore, I wanted the >other fans to give the script a chance because I believe many will find it >very enjoyable. Well you have whetted my appetite. This is something that has long been on my list of B7 things to buy one day. I think I will make it today. Julie Horner Software Engineer Lincoln Software Tel: +44 (0) 1625 616722 Fax: +44(0) 1625 616780 E-mail: julie.horner@lincolnsoftware.com Web: http://www.lincolnsoftware.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:33:32 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] telemovie Message-ID: <371C822C.3A54B74F@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton wrote (re who would rescue Avon): > Agreed. Tarrant would have weighted the odds (if someone could make > him stop long enough) then charged ahead anyway. Loyalty was one of > his strongest characteristics...actually, the one *I* can see > hanging back furthest is Vila!! Yes; Tarrant would very much rescue *any* of the crew, and Vila would hang back, except on one condition. If for some reason the others *were* unwilling or unable to go after Avon, it would be very Vila-esque for him to take care of things himself. He does come through in a pinch. Not having read the script yet, I can't say whether a believable situation was set up in which for some reason the others were unwilling to go; if say, perhaps, the others thought that Avon had betrayed them, and Vila was the only one who knew that Avon hadn't done that. Just IMHO, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:47:15 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <001c01be8b34$851293a0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tor said - >I wouldn't say that his choices of episodes were ever very discerning, >apart fromt the fact that he hated Harvest and Animals, he actually >liked Sarcophagus, and all the snarling and bitching in Power. Plus he >only liked Deliverance because of Meegat. Here is a little bit from Paul's interview, about series 4. (question - Do you like series 4 as much as the previous 3?) I do, yes, some episodes more than others. What Vere, our producer, has tried to do is to balance. One week it’s quite serious –although you might not think so – and the next week it becomes sort of ‘comic strip’. So that the ‘Space Rats’ one that you referred to was a comic strip, and the one with the doctor who fell in love with Dayna. Which was ludicrous, but there you are, if you actually thought about that, if he taught her before the alien war, which made her about 12, but there you are. 12 years old… it’s ridiculous. But yes, I do, I see what they’re trying to do with it, and obviously there are some episodes that I prefer to others. I thought when I first read them that the first six were tricky, and that they would improve radically after that, and rapidly, and indeed they do. Because we had a lot of new writers and that’s interesting for actors, but it sometimes leads you off into directions you don’t want to go in and you have to fight that. And so you have all sorts of problems. But the short answer to your question is ‘Yes – with reservations.’ *** I find these comments quite sensible, particularly made off the cuff as they were. Though my real reason for looking fairly kindly on Paul's opinions is that I think he likes the Vila character a lot, which makes him OK with me. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:13:20 PDT From: "Stephen Date" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <19990420141332.25828.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain Tor Avon wrote; >I wouldn't say that his choices of episodes were ever very discerning, >apart fromt the fact that he hated Harvest and Animals, he actually >liked Sarcophagus, and all the snarling and bitching in Power. Plus he >only liked Deliverance because of Meegat. Well I liked Sarcophagus ! I think Power would have been a good story if it had been about a conflict between the local Barbarians and the local high-technological faction, with our heroes caught in the middle instead of the usual Ben Steed "Women, know your limits" wittering. I have to admit as well that IMO the Avon/ Meegat scene's in Deliverance are brilliant comedy as Avon wanders around the control room airily fulfilling the prophecy. Tor then went on to say: >Actually, I've just submitted an 'Ultraworld' sequel to Brian >Lighthill for radio production consideration, so don't be so damned >defeatist! There's a lot we don't know about the Ultra, they might >be more interesting than you'd expect!! Sorry, me and my big mouth ! The ep wasn't really my cup of tea, but Good Luck with your script. >My abiding nightmare is that Paul Darrow might write the script!! If he does I think it's a fairly safe bet that he scores early and often ! When ever there's a film on and someone throws herself at the middle aged hero I often wonder "How does he do it ?" The answer is usually found in the words Written/ Directed/ Produced by.....the middle aged actor playing the hero. Am I being excessively cynical here ? Stephen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:42:22 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <371C924D.D1E1AD35@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen Date wrote: > >My abiding nightmare is that Paul Darrow might write the script!! > > If he does I think it's a fairly safe bet that he scores early and > often ! When ever there's a film on and someone throws herself at the > middle aged hero I often wonder "How does he do it ?" The answer is > usually found in the words Written/ Directed/ Produced by.....the > middle aged actor playing the hero. Am I being excessively cynical > here ? Er, yes, actually, either that or jealous ;-) Sociologically speaking, eligible males generally become more valuable as they age, since they tend to acquire power, money, poise, etc.: also, men die earlier than women, and western society is still predominately slanted toward older man/younger woman couples, so there are fewer of what are perceived as available men in proportion to available women as people age. For these and other reasons, many women are attracted to older men. Sean Connery is still the sexiest man alive. And from what I've been told, PDs not completely unattractive. Grins, Mistral -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:01:00 -0700 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: <371C96AB.C79D50A0@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alison Page wrote: > Here is a little bit from Paul's interview, about series 4. > the one > with the doctor who fell in love with Dayna. Which was ludicrous, but there > you are, if you actually thought about that, if he taught her before the > alien war, which made her about 12, but there you are. 12 years old… it’s > ridiculous. Hmm. Hal Mellanby brought Dayna from Earth to Saren about twenty years before Aftermath. Makes it sound like he thinks the war was maybe six or eight years long. I don't dispute that; but I do wonder where he came up with it from? Almost makes you wish they had stardates at the beginning of the eps, doesn't it? Nah.......... Mistral the Chronologically Challenged -- "And for my next trick, I shall swallow my other foot."--Vila ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:41:32 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Bullies, was PiC Rant Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 20 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > > > Judith Proctor wrote: > > I'm sorry, but you haven't the faintest damn idea what you're talking about. > > I take it this is some verbal savagery designed to teach me a lesson? No, it was the automatic gut reaction of a parent who is protective of her children. From what you were saying, I assumed that you considered yourself largely immune to verbal abuse, thus I didn't expect you to be hurt by anything I might say. If I expected you to be hurt, then trying to hurt you would be pointless as you would already know that pain that words can give. > I'm sincerely sorry if I've touched a nerve. I certainly hope that things > continue to improve for your son. This would explain, perchance, why > we have different definitions of the word bully. And I never meant to > imply that verbal savagery isn't damaging, hurtful, or a bad thing to do > to people. I don't consider that you've just bullied me, however, even > though you *have* reduced me to tears. I'm really sorry for that. I hope you know that it was far from what I intended. Please accept an e-mail hug. Differing understandings of words can cause major misundertandings. (I just had an argument with a friend about whetehr socialism was a good or bad thing only to discover that we had totally different meanings attached to the word and in fact were largely in agreement) I think bullying lies largely in intent. For a child, a nasty nickname can be as painful as a kick in the shin. The intent to hurt is there just as clearly. eg. I don't see everything said to Vila as bullying. Some things that sound dismissive on the surface were obviously not intended that way. There's one episode where Avon calls up and says something like 'Vila, are you asleep?' Vila jerks hiself awake and says 'no'. Avon replies 'That's what I thought'. There is affectionate humour in his voice as he says it. The same thing said in a different tone of voice would have conveyed a very different meaning. It isn't what is said, so much as how it is said. > > OTOH, Judith, you have no idea what *my* life has been like, any > more than I was aware of your son's situation. I do, too, have 'the > faintest damn idea' of what I am talking about. And to avoid pouring > out my whole life story in public, I'll confine myself to saying that > I've lived my entire 40 years *up to the present* with verbal savagery > from everyone from family, to *teachers*, to total strangers who > feel free to walk up to me on the street and insult me. (I've also > come in for my share of bullying -- my definition.) Then why dismiss the intent to protect people from verbal abuse as PC rubbish? (We'd better take this to private mail if we want to discuss it any further) > > I could wish that I were tougher. I could wish that the people > that behave this way had a better upbringing. And this isn't the > first time since I've joined this list that I've wished that people > would restrict themselves to exchanging ideas and opinions, > instead of making personal attacks. > > :) On the other hand, I still believe in free speech. And I still > want to be friends. Please forgive me for hurting you. Shake hands . I believe in free speech, but I also believe that opinions can be expressed without being abusive. The problem always lies in knowing what is abusive. Differences in geography, culture, upbringing, etc. make this hard to judge. Especially over e-mail, where you cannot see the face of the person you are talking to. Your comments on verbal abuse felt like a personal attack to me, though I now realise that your intent could not have been what it felt like. (Even though it wasn't addressed to me, it still felt personal because it was effectively saying that my son was not deserving of protection.) Right, shifting back to Blake's 7. How would various characters feel about freedom of speech? Servalan feels that speech should be rigidly controlled and wants to execute those spreading stories of rebel activity. Blake probably wants total freedom of speech as a matter of principle. Avon, I think would favour some restrictions once he was in office, but would suport total freedom when he wasn't . Gan's a freedom of speech man because I think he finds it hard to see people as evil and thus would not want to silence anyone. Vila doesn't care as long as the bar opens on time. Soolin might care passinately about this topic as the famers on Gauda Prime were denied an effective voice. Dayna simply lacks the political background to have a strong opinion though I think she would echo her father's opinions until she found her own from experience. I think Cally is basically in favour of freedom of speech, but can't help feeling that she would want an exclusion for racists, facists, etc. (I remember my student's union always used to have long debates on whether to allow a voice to those particular groups) Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:08:55 -0400 From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" Subject: [B7L] Re: test Message-ID: <199904201509_MC2-72C5-62E0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Neil wrote: >Aha - I just knew at least one of you would click >this one to read it even if it does say 'test' in the >subject header. Should have put a fiver on it, eh? I'm completely innocent. It's in the Digest, so I have to scroll past it to get to the next one. Harriet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:25:27 +0100 From: "Dangermouse" To: Subject: [B7L] Where to find me... Message-Id: <199904201945.UAA29004@gnasher.sol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, I now have two websites http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Bistro/7312/ Is David A McIntee's Homepage. This will be my personal homepage - stuff about my books, covers, reviews etc... What I'm up to, what conventions I'll be at, and so on. ----- http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Mansion/4845/ is Pon Farr Night at the Vulcan Cafe. This will be the new home for my (Dangermouse's) Star Trek (well, just Voyager, since DS9 is ending) spoilers and Tuvok homepage. The two sites will be separate (but are empty at the moment) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:45:32 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] telefilm / worst openings Message-ID: <19980313.061526.10310.1.Rilliara@juno.com> On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:51:35 EDT Bizarro7@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 4/17/99 1:04:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >mistral@ptinet.net writes: > ><< "You can't expect anyone to take a meglomaniac with blue skin >seriously." >>> > >Spoken by someone who has never seen Bronze Age Methos in HIGHLANDER. >*chuckle*... I _knew_ I was forgetting a serious, blue skinned meglomaniac. How about "You can't expect anyone to take a six inch tall meglomaniac with blue plush skin seriously."? Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 04:42:14 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Telemovie Message-ID: <19980313.061526.10310.0.Rilliara@juno.com> On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:26:33 +1000 Kathryn Andersen writes: >And, no, I'm not saying that it is impossible to do these things >right. I actually *liked* the Doctor Who movie; At last! Someone besides me who liked it! I even liked finding out the Doctor was supposed to be half-human. Of course, that may have been because I had this sudden mental picture of a British woman, probably from the World War II era, the type who dealt with the city she lived in being bombed with the same kind of practical efficiency and general optimism about her ability to cope you'd expect in the Doctor. She met up with an observing Time Lord who needed to be knocked out of his "only watching" complacency but, otherwise, wasn't such a bad guy. Then I found out the writers were thinking ancient Egyptian Queen with the Doctor's father doing the "Chariots of the Gods" thing and building the pyramids, and I wasn't so sure. But since they didn't put it in the movie, I ignore it. I simply fast-forward >through all the bits that have "The Master" in them. Good strategy. I don't blame the actor for apparently not watching any old episodes with the Master in them, but someone (like the director) should have told him the Master is supposed to be _sophisticated_ evil. If he has to wear a leather coat, he'll manage to give the impression it's an opera cloak. And, when around humans (and most other people), he gives the clear impression of knowing their all such ignorant fools compared to him. He doesn't kill billions to save himself because he's a murdering thug, he does it because he knows his life is worth so much more than theirs (and he probably believes the billions would agree if they only had the intellect to grasp his view of the situation). >But Barry Letts and Brian Lighthill's track record is not good. >Bring back Chris Boucher! Or at least don't have Avon's father build the pyramids. Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:05:52 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: RE: [B7L] test Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FBA3@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain > Neil wrote: > > << Aha - I just knew at least one of you would click this one to read it > even > if it does say 'test' in the subject header. Should have put a fiver on > it, > eh? >> > And Gail answered: > Dang, I've been caught! I always read the tests. Any other suckers out > there? > Not me, but that's because outlook shows the first part of the message even before I open it, which in this case was the entire message. I probably would have clicked on the message if it hadn't. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:13:46 +0200 From: Jacqueline Thijsen To: Lysator List Subject: RE: [B7L] Re:Bullies, was PiC Rant Message-ID: <39DCDDFD014ED21185C300104BB3F99F10FBA4@NL-ARN-MAIL01> Content-Type: text/plain Judith said: > Avon, I think would favour some restrictions once he was in office, but > would > suport total freedom when he wasn't . > I don't think he'd favour restrictions even if he was in office. Avon firmly believes that everyone has the right to make a fool of himself . > Vila doesn't care as long as the bar opens on time. > Well, he might want to have the words "closing time" banned. Jacqueline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:03:44 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Scripts (was Man of Iron) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Tue 20 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > Sociologically speaking, eligible males generally become more valuable as they > age, since they tend to acquire power, money, poise, etc.: also, men die > earlier than women, and western society is still predominately slanted toward > older man/younger woman couples, so there are fewer of what are perceived as > available men in proportion to available women as people age. For these and > other reasons, many women are attracted to older men. Sean Connery is still > the sexiest man alive. And from what I've been told, PDs not completely > unattractive. Sean Connery is definitely one of those men who improved wonderfully with age. I never cared for him as James Bond, but I can drool now. Martin Shaw (as I think I said on the other list) is looking delightful as he gains some grey hair. I like older men. Their faces look as though they've been lived in. I'm an absolute sucker for a good crp of smile lines. Paul's still attractive. He's also got what I can only describe as a personality that projects. I have several friends who drool happily in Paul's vicinity. Gareth is simply beautiful since he passed fifty. Luckily, most of the world doesn't realise this because they expect him to look like Blake, so I don't have to fight off hordes of adoring fans to be able to say hello to him. So why am I telling you this? Hm. Correction, Gareth is an ugly sod, you wouldn't want to know him at all . Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:16:18 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Orac Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII It just struck me that Ensor exaggerated somewhat about Orac's abilities. If Orac was that good at predicting things, how come he didn't predict that Servalan would try to cheat Ensor? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:46:16 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Dayna( was scripts) Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Tue 20 Apr, mistral@ptinet.net wrote: > > > Alison Page wrote: > > > Here is a little bit from Paul's interview, about series 4. > > > > > the one > > with the doctor who fell in love with Dayna. Which was ludicrous, but there > > you are, if you actually thought about that, if he taught her before the > > alien war, which made her about 12, but there you are. 12 years old… it’s > > ridiculous. > > Hmm. Hal Mellanby brought Dayna from Earth to Saren > about twenty years before Aftermath. Makes it sound like he > thinks the war was maybe six or eight years long. I don't dispute > that; but I do wonder where he came up with it from? The script was originally written for Cally. The dates would have made more sense then. I presume they slipped past the script editing because of the pressure of time. My usual rationale is that it was a teenage crush and not an actual romance. Either that or hal Mellanby would have shot Justin if he'd found out what was goin on... Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #139 **************************************