From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #156 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/156 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 156 Today's Topics: [B7L] Banning SF (was Re:Curious things in Star One) Voice operated computer drawbacks. Re: [B7L] budgies/parakeets [B7L] book & dystopia [B7L] Re:Plan B, O ye Muses of filking.. [B7L] B7 Fanzines at MediaWest*Con Re: [B7L] Re:Plan B, O ye Muses of filking.. [B7L] Re: Fan Q ballot Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Re: [B7L] history [B7L] Re: Man of Iron etc [B7L] Re: Booze glorious booze Re: [B7L] Re: Man of Iron etc Re: [B7L] Radio Times Re: [B7L] Re: Man of Iron etc [B7L] Cult TV 98 pix Re: [B7L] world beyond the hill (was book & dystopia) -- longish Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Re: [B7L] Re: Fan Q ballot Re: [B7L] Re:drugs on Earth(was Star One) Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Re: [B7L] Banning SF (was Re:Curious things in Star One) Re: [B7L] history ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:41:30 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Banning SF (was Re:Curious things in Star One) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990504154130.007a9e70@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:51 PM 5/4/99 +0100, Julia Jones wrote: Kathryn Andersen writes >>ObB7: D'you think the Federation would have banned SF along with >>religion? > >If they've got any sense. According to Asimov's autobiography, SF >writers were cheerfully criticising McCarthyism at a time when this was >not a safe thing to do, and getting away with it because the mundanes >didn't realise what this stuff was an allegory for. I think if they've got any sense they'll permit that kind of literature, just like our ruling classes do. The fact is that only a small segment of any given human population are going to 'get' *any* kind of satire or allegory. See the perennial phenomenon of people writing ironic letters to the editor entitled 'A Modest Proposal For [Fill In The Controversial Blank]', which are then followed by a flurry of 'Dear Sirs I Am Shocked And Appalled' responses by people who take said 'Proposal' at face value. Or consider that 'The Simpsons', although incredibly popular, has completely failed to topple any of its targeted institutions over the past ten years. It's in the best interests of a government or ruling institution, I think, to permit satirists to satirize as long as the criticism is veiled enough that the only people who get the joke are those who are *already* aware of...well, anything much beyond the practicalities of day-to-day living. Ie, not the hoi polloi, not the "mundanes". Because that allows these potential dissidents to 'vent' in a manner harmless to the status quo. "Free speech" -- within (ahem) reason...bread and soma... "Euripides' play ['The Trojan Women'] is so effective a statement in condemning war that it ran for over ten years in New York City during the war in Vietnam; its message had as little effect then as did the original production 2,500 years earlier." --footnote in 'Classical Myth' by Barry B. Powell --Penny "Ivory Tower Killer" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 23:06:57 +0100 From: "Jonathan" To: Subject: Voice operated computer drawbacks. Message-ID: <015801be967a$6df98c40$e550883e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got this in my email today : From an article in the Telegraph property section, 1 May, quoted in Risks Digest 20.36: "The other day, I got a call from a man complaining that the gulls outside his window were interfering with his voice-activated computer. Apparently, every time a seagull let out a loud squawk, his computer would type up the word 'Aldershot' on the screen. After a while, that kind of thing can drive you mad." Make's you wonder how safe letting Zen drive the Liberator was. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 16:19:02 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] budgies/parakeets Message-ID: <19990504231902.40360.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; >The first one to leave the nest box was Blake Blake the budgerigar. Nice, Judith. >who was found the day before yesterday looking very confused >(mindwiped?) Well, being outside is an offence, now, isn't it? Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:22:33 +1000 From: Sarah Berry To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] book & dystopia Message-ID: <372F8F49.4F7CF569@connexus.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "The World Beyond The Hill: Science Fiction and the Quest for >Transcendence" by Alexi and Cory Panshin, Kathryn, thanks for the name of the book and the summary. Do you have any more details like year or publisher? It would be fascinating to see how B7 fit into this theory. The difference in national pysches might help explain the differences between what fans of different countries like about B7. So the more complex the program the more likely it is to get a world-wide audience? Hmm, doesn't always work like that...'Baywatch' doesn't seem to fit... And I like Kevin's idea that the US is at a different stage to the UK/Europe, that US SF is getting darker. I think you could add Buffy and Xena into that 'dark' category with the X Files...even 'The Practice'...So what comes after the 'darkness'? I haven't answer for Kathryn's question about SF in the Federation, but Kevin and Kathyrn made me wonder about whether SF ideas are common to all/most/many cultures past and present? Are the gods of the Egpytians their version of SF? What is SF anyway? Is it just the setting? Take away the Liberator and couldn't you set B7 in some war torn area on Earth now? Sarah Berry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:59:36 +1000 From: Sarah Berry To: Lysator List Subject: [B7L] Re:Plan B, O ye Muses of filking.. Message-ID: <372F89E8.3FF0C618@connexus.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very funny Joanne. Sang it several times (performed Oliver! in primary school and have never been able to forget it). I just wonder why you're putting ice with your sauvignon...ah, you mean blanc not sab cav...and baileys and claret...yuck, Vila must be desperate. Sarah Berry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 01:55:25 EDT From: Bizarro7@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com Subject: [B7L] B7 Fanzines at MediaWest*Con Message-ID: <4bda8541.2461374d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ashton Press will have a Dealer's Room table this year at MediaWest*Con in Lansing, Michigan on Memorial Day Weekend. Annie wanted me to convey to everyone that the B7 zines that she will be bringing for sale will include SOUTHERN SEVEN #11, SOUTHERN SEVEN #12 and DOWN AND OUT. There will be limited copies available of each so if you will be attending, or if you have a friend who will be attending the convention and purchasing zines for you, please notify Annie Wortham in advance and she will set aside a copy of your requested zine(s) for you before the Dealer's Room doors open, as in previous years. Thanks! Leah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:06:42 PDT From: "Joanne MacQueen" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:Plan B, O ye Muses of filking.. Message-ID: <19990505060642.45314.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sarah wrote: >Very funny Joanne. Sang it several times (performed Oliver! in >primary >school and have never been able to forget it). Me too. Last time I sang that one was 1982, when I was eleven - funny what you remember and what you don't. >I just wonder why you're putting ice with your sauvignon...ah, you >mean >blanc not sab cav To put it kindly, it's a somewhat strange filk subject for someone who doesn't drink (never been able to persuade myself otherwise, I'm afraid). >...and baileys and claret...yuck, Vila must be desperate. I have heard of what I'm assured are worse ways to get drunk, but, yes, Vila must be desperate! Regards Joanne ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:08:39 +0100 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "lysator" Subject: [B7L] Re: Fan Q ballot Message-ID: <000501be96c6$1b08b8c0$cd498cd4@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just in case anyone on this list was planning to vote for Stadler Link in this year's Fan Q's - please don't, your vote will be wasted. I've asked for the zine to be pulled from the ballot. Neil ------------------------------ Date: 05 May 1999 09:51:02 +0200 From: Calle Dybedahl To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sarah Berry writes: > Kathryn, thanks for the name of the book and the summary. Do you > have any more details like year or publisher? S:t Martin's Press, 1989, if I recall correctly. Seems to be pretty thoroughly out of print. -- Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se Please pay no attention to the panda in the fridge. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 03:58:45 EDT From: AdamWho@aol.com To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (B7 List) Subject: Re: [B7L] history Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-04 02:00:57 EDT, you write: << Would the Federation in fact recognize the human need for down time in order to stay productive? Or would they simply not care? Or would the lower classes be on an everyday schedule and only the Alphas have days off; i.e. days off be used for rewards/status symbols? >> My guess, the Federation would allow one or two days off a week. They would blast over television, radio, and in schools that they were fair and considerate to their people, unlike (fill in the blank) government, which made all their citizens work nonstop. I'm sure the news would have "exposes" of these other corrupt governments, and the Federation's plans to stop them. The Federation probably set up and secretly controlled these other governments, just to show people how nice they were in comparison. If The Way Back is to be believed, most of the people were so numbed by all the supressants in water and food, they would be too zonked out to complain about not having enough free time. History would go into two categories. BF, Before Federation, AF, After Federation. BF would be very limited, most of the lessons tales of horror about how dumb and violent people were before the Federation took over. I wonder how they did the holidays, did B7 ever mention holidays? Or were the holidays "Federation Day" and "Take Your Mutoid With You to Work Day" ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:25:37 +0100 From: Steve Rogerson To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Man of Iron etc Message-ID: <37300080.4A1ED09A@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borg said: "would it be acceptable for the ethnic & social minorities in London to lynch the person responsible for the bombs of whom they were the target, causing hideous injuries and lifelong pain and scarring to him?" Sounds good to me. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "What is it with you and holes?" Xena to Gabrielle, Paradise Found ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:25:49 +0100 From: Steve Rogerson To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: Booze glorious booze Message-ID: <3730008C.1C6BD413@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nice one Joanne, and I'm flattered to be your inspiration. I think you should dedicate it to Oliver Reid, who died the way he lived his life. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "What is it with you and holes?" Xena to Gabrielle, Paradise Found ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 02:47:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Borg To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Man of Iron etc Message-ID: <19990505094747.8366.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Steve Rogerson wrote: > Peter Borg said: "would it be acceptable for the > ethnic & social minorities in London to lynch the > person responsible for the bombs of whom they were > the > target, causing hideous injuries and lifelong pain > and > scarring to him?" > > Sounds good to me. Please, tell me you're joking, or that this was said in anger. The fact that we might also take such little respect for a person's life simply to gratify our feelings in an act of retailation comes close to justifying his first act. If we can do that to him, why shouldn't he have been able to do the same to us? I'm closer to the reality of the horror than you might know, and I can't express how I feel regarding this. I can tell you that I feel deep horror at the reaction of some and their willingness to retaliate in such a fashion. Peter. === -- Peter Borg peter_borg@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:09:00 BST From: "Tor Avon" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Radio Times Message-ID: <19990505110901.99474.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; >Has any-one seen p133 of next weeks Radio Times? >I get the impression that Roland White had no knowledge of the original TV >series until he found out that he had to review The Syndeton Experiment, >and >then he found someone in the office, who saw about two episodes when they >first went out and asked them to tell him what it was all about. (Perhaps >it >was Barry Letts?) I thought the man was a complete idiot. But it's still Radio Time's Nick Griffiths who really p's me off. Tor ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 05:23:44 -0600 From: Penny Dreadful To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Man of Iron etc Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990505052344.007b0990@mail.geocities.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:47 AM 5/5/99 -0700, Peter Borg wrote: >If we can do that to him, why shouldn't he >have been able to do the same to us? All's fair in love and war. Ain't life grand? --Penny "ObB7? Whaddya mean ObB7? This is as ObB7 as it gets!" Dreadful ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:29:39 +0100 From: Steve Rogerson To: Lysator , Space City Subject: [B7L] Cult TV 98 pix Message-ID: <37302BA2.DEBD3ADD@mcr1.poptel.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are now some pix from Cult TV 98 on my web page. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson "What is it with you and holes?" Xena to Gabrielle, Paradise Found ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 06:37:44 -0700 From: "Ann Basart" To: "Blake's7" Subject: Re: [B7L] world beyond the hill (was book & dystopia) -- longish Message-Id: <199905051337.GAA06668@oberon.dnai.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear B7'ers For anyone who wants "The World Beyond the Hill," here are the current listings from Bibliofind (www.bibliofind.com): Panshin, Alexei and Cory: The World Beyond the Hill; Science Fiction and the Quest for Transcendence ; Los Angeles: Jeremy P. Tarcher, (1989). 1st Edition, Very Good, Signed by Authors, uncorrected proof, Wraps, Literature Signed Books   (UR#:BOOKS3019705I)  Offered for sale by Book Baron, Anaheim at US$50.00 Panshin, Alexi and Cory: World Beyond the Hill, The ; Jeremy P. Tarcher 1989, 1st ed., review copy, vg, fair dj, the only book you regret is the one you didn't buy., Rare Collectible science fiction   (UR#:B01698-4)  Offered for sale by Wonder Book and Video at US$45.00 Panshin, Alexei And Cory: The World Beyond The Hill ; JEREMY P. TARCHER, INC., 1st EDITION - AUTHORS SIGNATURES. hc., General # 5   (UR#:GENERAL004951I)  Offered for sale by Seven Mountains Books at US$50.87 Panchin, Alexi & Cory: THE WORLD BEYOND THE HILL. ; 1st edition. Tarcher 1989. Fine proof copy. Offered for sale by Yesterday's Books, MI at US$10.00 Panshin, Alexi & Cory: The World Beyond the Hill ; Tarcher Uncorrected proof   Offered for sale by Mark V. Ziesing Bookseller at US$10.00 Panshin, Alexei and Cory : THE WORLD BEYOND THE HILL ; #0122 Jeremy P. Tarcher Inc. First ed. First Printing. 685 pgs. SIGNED by both Authors with small insc. Dj corner clipped, chipped a bit with one 1/2 in. tear in back. nice tight clean copy.   Offered for sale by What Goes 'Round at US$48.00 Alexei & Cory: The World Beyond the Hill ; NY, Jeremy P. Tarcher, 1989 HB, fine in VG dg, small tear at base dj, 1st edition, numbered, signed by both authors 00048   Offered for sale by Parnassus on the Net at US$85.00 Panshin, Alexei & Cory: The World Beyond the Hill ; Jeremy P. Tarcher, Los Angeles, 1989, First edition. Fine in fine dw. SIGNED by the Panshins., Science Fiction/Fantasy Science Fiction/Fantasy   (UR#:693)  Offered for sale by The Dawn Treader Book Shop at US$50.00 Panshin, Alexi: The World Beyond the Hill ; Tarcher 1st ed, F in dj   Offered for sale by Mark V. Ziesing Bookseller at US$30.00 PANSHIN: WORLD BEYOND HILL ; Tarcher 874774365 Hard Cover For more information please contact orders@wordplay.com   Offered for sale by Wordplay at US$9.95 Best, Ann abasart@dnai.com If the book you are looking for is not yet in Bibliofind, or if you would like to be notified when other books with the same word(s) enter Bibliofind, please post a want below. Your Personal Want List Author: Title: Any other word(s): Your Email Address: Non-subscribers may post up to ten titles on their Personal Want Lists. Bibliofind subscribers may post unlimited wants. Click here for more information about wants. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Copyright 1999 exchange.com ---------- > From: Sarah Berry > To: Lysator List > Subject: [B7L] book & dystopia > Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 5:22 PM > > > "The World Beyond The Hill: Science Fiction and the Quest for > >Transcendence" by Alexi and Cory Panshin, > > Kathryn, thanks for the name of the book and the summary. Do you have any more > details like year or publisher? It would be fascinating to see how B7 fit into > this theory. The difference in national pysches might help explain the > differences between what fans of different countries like about B7. So the more > complex the program the more likely it is to get a world-wide audience? Hmm, > doesn't always work like that...'Baywatch' doesn't seem to fit... > > And I like Kevin's idea that the US is at a different stage to the UK/Europe, > that US SF is getting darker. I think you could add Buffy and Xena into that > 'dark' category with the X Files...even 'The Practice'...So what comes after the > 'darkness'? > > I haven't answer for Kathryn's question about SF in the Federation, but Kevin > and Kathyrn made me wonder about whether SF ideas are common to all/most/many > cultures past and present? Are the gods of the Egpytians their version of SF? > What is SF anyway? Is it just the setting? Take away the Liberator and > couldn't you set B7 in some war torn area on Earth now? > > Sarah Berry. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:46:57 +0100 From: "kevin mahoney" To: "Lysator List" Subject: Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Message-ID: <00aa01be9717$298cfc20$b24e95c1@MSNKevinPatrickMahoney> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I haven't answer for Kathryn's question about SF in the Federation, but Kevin >and Kathyrn made me wonder about whether SF ideas are common to all/most/many >cultures past and present? Are the gods of the Egpytians their version of SF? >What is SF anyway? Is it just the setting? Take away the Liberator and >couldn't you set B7 in some war torn area on Earth now? I've just been reading a book called 'Parliament of Dreams', which is about Babylon 5, and one of their comments was that B5 was very much like a Greek epic, with the unreliable and belligerent Gods being the Vorlons and the Shadows. I suppose B7 could be read as being much like the Greek epics such as The Iliad in its human, tragical aspects. The Gods don't play much of a role - B7 is much more of a human universe - more akin perhaps to Oedipus Rex than the Iliad. My impression is that people of mystical religious faiths in B7 are seen as deluded, such as the unfortunate inhabitants of Cygnus Alpha. Kevin Mahoney http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Nook/1082/subculture.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:42:11 +0100 (BST) From: Judith Proctor To: Lysator List Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Fan Q ballot Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed 05 May, Neil Faulkner wrote: > Just in case anyone on this list was planning to vote for Stadler Link in > this year's Fan Q's - please don't, your vote will be wasted. I've asked > for the zine to be pulled from the ballot. Why on Earth? It's a darn good zine! It wouldn't have got on the ballot in the first place if at least three people hadn't asked for it to be included. I think I was one of those who nominated it. It's rare enough for non-US zines to get onto the ballot at all. Knowing you, it has to be some kind of moral/philosopical objection rather than any doubt about the zine's merit. So what's the problem? Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:52:55 -0600 From: Arkaroo To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Re:drugs on Earth(was Star One) Message-ID: <37309387.4ADF@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Penny Dreadful wrote: > I remember reading a Monica Hughes novel(la?) (I'm sure Arkaroo will be > able to give us the name) many many years ago wherein I believe the > population-drugging procedure worked thusly: > (a) drugs in a popular brand of breakfast cereal enhanced suggestibility > (b) subliminal suggestions on popular television shows encouraged the > populace to (among other things) keep eating said brand of breakfast cereal. > The novel was called 'The Tomorrow City'. A sentient computer is in charge of all utilities and governmental duties, and it decides that the best way to make a dandy utopia is to keep the populace lightly toasted, through the methods Penny mentioned. Naturally, a group of plucky youngsters conspire to overthrow it. I seem to remember a poodle coming to a tragic end, but I read it a looong time ago. It was probably written in the early eighties or before. Just as in 'The Way Back', the city was sealed and self-contained, and the populace were 'discouraged' from going outside -- I don't think much mention was made of the world outside their city-state. Ah, Monica Hughes, definitely one of the top young-adult SF writers out there, with a societal outlook reminiscent of Chris Boucher. Too bad she never wrote for B7. Hmm, I seem to remember another novel by her set in a similar domed city, I think it was called 'Beckoning Lights'. Very grim little tome. -Arkaroo ********************************************************************** The little scamps! It's the oldest trick in the book: capture your ship,turn it into a planet, then explore a macro universe in a laundry basket. How could you fall for an old scam like that? - Holly ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:38:09 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Message-ID: <19990505193809.A665@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, May 05, 1999 at 09:51:02AM +0200, Calle Dybedahl wrote: > Sarah Berry writes: > > > Kathryn, thanks for the name of the book and the summary. Do you > > have any more details like year or publisher? > > S:t Martin's Press, 1989, if I recall correctly. Seems to be pretty > thoroughly out of print. Yes, but one can look for it in libraries or second-hand. The copy I read was leant to me by a friend, and I trawled the Advanced Book Exchange to try to find a reasonably priced copy. There's one on hold for me now, I hope they hold it long enough for my snail mail to get there. Most of the copies I saw on the Advanced Book Exchange were, unfortunately, expensive first-editions for about $US 50 each! I wasn't *that* desperate. Kathryn Andersen -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:58:44 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] book & dystopia Message-ID: <19990505195844.B665@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, May 05, 1999 at 10:22:33AM +1000, Sarah Berry wrote: > > "The World Beyond The Hill: Science Fiction and the Quest for > >Transcendence" by Alexi and Cory Panshin, > Kathryn, thanks for the name of the book and the summary. Do you have > any more details like year or publisher? 1989. Can't remember publisher. > It would be fascinating to > see how B7 fit into this theory. The difference in national pysches > might help explain the differences between what fans of different > countries like about B7. The difference in national psyches was only a minor part of the book, though. > So the more complex the program the more > likely it is to get a world-wide audience? Hmm, doesn't always work > like that...'Baywatch' doesn't seem to fit... Lowest common demominator? > And I like Kevin's idea that the US is at a different stage to the > UK/Europe, that US SF is getting darker. I think you could add Buffy > and Xena into that 'dark' category with the X Files...even 'The > Practice'...So what comes after the 'darkness'? I think it's a reflection of the times, basically. > I haven't answer for Kathryn's question about SF in the Federation, > but Kevin and Kathyrn made me wonder about whether SF ideas are common > to all/most/many cultures past and present? Are the gods of the > Egpytians their version of SF? Well, the major theme of the book is that SF is modern myth. A corrollory of that is that the nature of SF has changed as society has changed. I found it fascinating both as a history of SF and a history of Western thought. A quick overview, anyway. > What is SF anyway? Is it just the setting? Take away the Liberator > and couldn't you set B7 in some war torn area on Earth now? Well, some people *do* argue that Blake's 7 isn't SF. What is SF? Ask any three different SF fans and you'll get three different definitions. Ask a Hollywood producer and you'll get another one, ask an English professor he'll define it as "crap", and in the same breath declare that "Brave New World" isn't SF. Kathryn Andersen -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:01:21 +0100 From: Julia Jones To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] Banning SF (was Re:Curious things in Star One) Message-ID: In message <3.0.6.32.19990504154130.007a9e70@mail.geocities.com>, Penny Dreadful writes >See the perennial phenomenon of people writing ironic letters to >the editor entitled 'A Modest Proposal For [Fill In The Controversial >Blank]', which are then followed by a flurry of 'Dear Sirs I Am Shocked And >Appalled' responses by people who take said 'Proposal' at face value. And the original Modest Proposal is still getting that sort of treatment. Apparently it is taken at face value by a lot of earnest young Irish students who triumphantly proclaim it as an example of the wickedness of the English. -- Julia Jones "Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!" The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:14:19 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] history Message-ID: <19980314.161420.10310.0.Rilliara@juno.com> On Tue, 4 May 1999 07:55:23 +0100 Julia Jones writes: >In message <372E8CD7.FF9043BC@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes >>Would the Federation in fact recognize the human >>need for down time in order to stay productive? Or >>would they simply not care? > >Given that most societies have to date (at least where we know about >it), I can't really see the Federation ignoring it, although they >certainly wouldn't call it the Sabbath. When the Roman historian Tacitus wrote a fairly anti-Semitic history of the Jews, one of his complaints was the Sabbath. He claimed it showed inherent laziness to have every 7th day off. While my knowledge of ancient Rome is a little spotty, what I know about the life of an upper class Roman makes this sound a tad hypocritical. Perhaps he was upset that the Sabbath was supposed to apply to everyone, even slaves. But regular days off don't seem to have been a universal. Tacitus also thought it was appalling the Jews had outlawed infanticide. Anyone think the Federation would have liked his stuff? Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #156 **************************************