From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #21 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/21 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 21 Today's Topics: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #317 Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:21:15 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V98 #317 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 00:47:10 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V98 #317 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 317 > > Today's Topics: > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' > Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > [B7L] Merry Christmas and apologies > Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse > Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse > Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' > [B7L] Re: story arcs > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] Re: story arcs > Fw: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] RPG > [B7L] Holiday Greetings > Re: [B7L] RPG > Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:25:01 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > On Thu 24 Dec, Taina Nieminen wrote: > > I've played in a B7-type universe using GURPS, which worked okay. Hunted by > > the Federation is a 120 point disadvantage, which being a group > > disadvantage, bypasses the 40 point disad limit, and gives more than decent > > characters using a 100 point base. > > I think one of the RPGs being run at Redemption is using the GURPS system and > another fan who hopes to be able to make it has mentioned that she has a B5 > GURPS scenario. > > JUdith > > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:48:37 -0800 > From: Pat Patera > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' > Message-ID: <36828C85.1D8C@geocities.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Penny Dreadful wrote: > regarding the original post: > > > >Why did Travis make her the offer? > Because he loved her. > This was obvious to me the first time Travis 1 came into her office. And > also, that she did not respect him even then. > > When they were in the caves in Orac and Travis protected her from the > Phibians, I thought his love apparent - when he gives that little amused > smile over her fear. And then climbs thru the hole first. And comes to > her aid so quickly. This wasn't military training; this was personal > concern for her safety. Perhaps it was her power he loved, but the power > resided in her body. > > > >Why did she turn him down? > > ... moreover she didn't respect him enough to *pretend* to > > consider it, which I think she would have done with Season 1 Travis. > > With 1st season, she may have pretended just because she wanted to keep > him on a string as she thought he might be useful. I agree that Travis 2 > was too far gone to be useful - a loose canon. > > She is so dismissive of him in The Keeper it is painful to watch her > reject his offer. The poor man is laying the Entire Galaxy at his lady's > feet. And I believe this blatant demonstration of how she disdained him > is what sent Travis 2 over the edge - his deliverance of Star One to the > Aliens I see totally as revenge against his unrequited love. > > A friend of mine says there is nothing more fragile than the Male Ego. > And no better ego stomper than Servalan! > > Avon was smart enough to keep her far far from his ego! > Pat P > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:57:31 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: "Calle Dybedahl" , > "Lysator List" , > "Space City" > Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06581@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ---------- > > From: Calle Dybedahl > > To: Lysator List ; Space City > > > Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > > Date: 23 December 1998 19:45 > > > > "Dangermouse" writes: > > > > > I have a natural gift for rubbing everybody up the wrong way, sooner > > > or later. > > > > And on both mailing lists at once, even. > > I just hit the reply button - Baskerville chose the forums. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:09:04 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: > Subject: [B7L] Merry Christmas and apologies > Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06597@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > A merry Christmas to all (or pleasant Hanukkah or Ramadan where > appropriate) > > Peace and goodwill to all men with one notable exception. > > Also, apologies for the trouble of late - I certainly didn't mean to > discourage attendance of Redemption, but merely have some concerns over the > appropriateness of the guest's previous behavious - there could be kids in > the audience, for example. > > However, one of you seems to have taken it to heart too much and decided to > post abuse of me. How childish. > > I wonder if he can resist the urge to have the last word - this is mine on > the subject. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:56:18 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: , > Subject: Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse > Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06576@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ---------- > > From: Robert Baskerville > > > > I understand that "dangermouse" has posted part or all of a private email > > written by me (to him personally) to these mailing lists. > > That's right, because you were trying to gag me. > > > This is a blatent > > abuse of netiquette, clearly this character has no manners whatsoever or > > a significant technological ineptitude. > > Again, I presume we've never met... > > Rest assured if we meet at Redemption, I'll try to live up to your > expectations of me. > > > I apologise to all the list members > > for the noise this has created. > > Likewise, but frankly this arrogant prick is pissing me off, and that just > make me stick to my guns even more. The rest of you, just ignore it. > > > I'll not bother responding any more to the dangerm00se here; he's welcome > > to hurl abuse directly at me all he likes. > > How odd - I'm not the one who calls posters rude, descends to childish > corruptions of their online IDs etc just because someone else doesn't have > the same opinion of me. > > There's only one of us hurling abuse at the other here - and it isn't me. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:02:11 -0000 > From: "Dangermouse" > To: "Neil Faulkner" , "lysator" > Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > Message-Id: <199812242032.UAA06588@gnasher.sol.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > ---------- > > From: Neil Faulkner > > Damn, damn, someone stealing my thunder already (oy ve!). But seriously, > > Dangermouse's remarks open a new slant on an actor I'd always taken to be > a > > right-on working class hero. What was the context of these remarks about > > women, poofs and Pakis? > > To be honest I didn't pay enough attention to them to remember too well - I > just remember observing a somewhat stunned audience looking very > uncomfortable at that panel... > > > The big blonde comment is the kind I'd make myself > > without remotely meaning it, so I don't attach much importance to that. > > Guess I'll have to see him in action at Rdemption. > > Like I said, Kev Davies and Jan Chappell say he's normally charming, and > must just have been having a bad day (and with that hotel who can blame > him) > > I certainly didn't mean to start any flamewars here, but nor am I going to > let Baskerville browbeat me for having a different opinion. As for the > netiquette of posting his email - because I couldn't reply to him directly; > his killfiling was the equivalent of shouting "jinx, no comebacks" and > slamming the phone down childishly. > > So I'll apologise to the rest of the list - but not to him. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:45:27 EST > From: ShilLance@aol.com > To: master@sol.co.uk, Blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com > Subject: Re: [B7L] The character known as dangermouse > Message-ID: <9243a00.3682a7e7@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In a message dated 12/24/98 3:33:24 PM EST, master@sol.co.uk writes: > > << > There's only one of us hurling abuse at the other here - and it isn't me. > >> > > How about both of you dropping the nonsense so the rest of us don't suffer? > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:43:45 PST > From: "Penny Dreadful" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] T.'s Offer to S. in 'The Keeper' > Message-ID: <19981224214346.28998.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by samantha.lysator.liu.se id AAA25778 > > Pat said: > > >She is so dismissive of him in The Keeper it is painful to watch her > >reject his offer. The poor man is laying the Entire Galaxy at his=20 > lady's > >feet. And I believe this blatant demonstration of how she disdained him > >is what sent Travis 2 over the edge - his deliverance of Star One to=20 > the > >Aliens I see totally as revenge against his unrequited love. > > Hey, yo, Pat, baby, *great* minds think alike (ignore Calle's occasional=20 > .sig to the contrary)! A direct quote from one of my web-pages=20 > (committed under the influence of sinus medication): > > "She bullies Travis, mocks him, swats him, has him beaten and abused in=20 > various ways by various minions, railroads him - but in the end it is=20 > apparently only her indifference - her obliviousness to his=20 > eleventh-hour overture (power-sharing proposal, pickup line, I really=20 > don't think there's much difference, no matter who's involved) - that=20 > decides him vis =E1 vis going out and doing some serious mass murder..." > > -- Penny "But You Can Call Me Marilyn Monroe" Dreadful > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:54:32 +0000 (GMT) > From: Robert Baskerville > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Re: story arcs > Message-Id: <2525.9812242154@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Judith wrote: > > >I think one important things even though it isn't a story arc per se is that > >the characters were allowed to change and develop over time. Thus we get both > >Travis and Blake becoming increasingly fanatic in the second season. We get > >major changes in Avon's character as he copes with life without first Blake and > >then without Cally and Liberator. Vila's attitude to Avon changes after Orbit > >(I alway felt that was good acting on Michael Keating's part). > > ...and a contrast to the way Avon sticks up for Villa in City at the Edge, > and Villa's touching behaviour towards Avon in Rumours (eg immediately after > Shrinker arrives on board) > > Returning to Orbit, I wonder if Avon would have hesitated as long as he > did if it had been someone else on board (Tarrant? ) > > Robert > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:25:25 +1000 > From: "Taina Nieminen" > To: "B7" > Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: <004d01be2ecb$867a18a0$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Kim asked for volunteers to do GURPS stats for B7 characters. > > Yeah, I'll do it. I love character creation. It'll be a pleasure. > > Taina > =========================== > Is there a mind/body problem? > And if so, which is it better to have? > - Woody Allen > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:38:07 EST > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: story arcs > Message-ID: <4204080f.3682d05f@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Robert wrote: > > > Returning to Orbit, I wonder if Avon would have hesitated as long as he > > did if it had been someone else on board (Tarrant? ) > > He wouldn't have hesitated a second. Avon would have walked out that airlock > as fast as his leather-stiff legs would carry him to save Tarrant. ;-) > > Carol Mc > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:50:14 +1000 > From: "Taina Nieminen" > To: "B7" > Subject: Fw: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: <001101be2ed7$5fd56720$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Kim has suggested: > > >Maybe if a number of us on the list who are > >familiar with GURPS each take a character or two, or if we all contributed > >suggestions for each character...either of those could be interesting (and > >productive). We could work out a scenario for them later. > > > > And which season. > > > What I see as some obvious disads (in no particular order) and advantages > for first and second season: > > Vila - Kleptomania, Alcoholism (or less extremely, compulsive behaviour - > stealing, addiction - alcohol), Low Pain Threshold, Combat Paralysis, > Cowardice, Laziness, Weak Will (Vila's not doing very well here) > > Avon - Odious personal habit - petty insults (5 point), Greed, High Pain > Threshold > > Gan - possibly Gigantism - how big is he, exactly? Gullibility? Truthfulness > > Travis - One eye (15 points), one arm (no points as bionically replaced), > sadism? > > Blake - Fanaticism, stubborness, Charisma > > Cally - skinny? > > Orac - Legless etc., I'm sure there should be some mental disadvantage, > about hating to be interrupted by mere humans who can't be bothered to think > for themselves - intolerance? > > Group enemy - Federation - 40 points, tripled because they appear almost all > the time = 120 points. > > Nothing comes to mind for Jenna. > > Taina > =========================== > Is there a mind/body problem? > And if so, which is it better to have? > - Woody Allen > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:04:02 -0000 > From: "Neil Faulkner" > To: "lysator" > Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: <001001be2fa2$e7633ac0$5e17ac3e@default> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >I've played in a B7-type universe using GURPS, which worked okay. Hunted by > >the Federation is a 120 point disadvantage, which being a group > >disadvantage, bypasses the 40 point disad limit, and gives more than decent > >characters using a 100 point base. > > > And going by what it says on p.26 of the Basic Set, you still get up to 40 > points per character. Throw in 5 quirks and you get an extra 165 points per > character. Eeek! > > FWIW, I don't much like GURPS. It groans under the strain of all those > modifiers and skill defaults (I prefer skill trees myself). > > >What's 2300AD like? I've never come across it. > > > Never played it, only flipped through the rulebook. It looked okay for a > 'realistic' SF setting. > > How do people go about rolegaming B7? Do you use the series characters, or > originals? I've found that whenever the players use their own PCs, the end > result is a flavourless generic space opera. The depth of background that > appears to be in the series isn't really there when you turn it into a > rolegame setting. It's the characters that make it B7. > > Do people have trouble reconciling the different appraisals of B7 that > various players might have? After all, some fans approach it as science > fantasy, others as quasi-cyberpunk. Various episodes from the series > endorse both extremes and various middle courses between the two. There are > other contentious issues too, like how far in the future B7 is set and does > it matter anyway, and how alien are people like the Auronar. I can see > players/GMs with strong views on such subjects either getting a bit miffed > or rubbing backs up the wrong way (or both). > > And what do you do when the player running Avon does something that s/he > believes is entirely in character for Avon, but everyone else reckons is way > offline? > > I *have* run a successful B7 RPG (using the Horizon game, as it happens), > but with series characters and carrying straight on after 'Blake'. Simply > setting an SF scenario in the B7 universe wasn't half as successful. The > latter approach especially puts a heavy burden on the GM to create lots of > background which is both plausible and in tune with the series (the series > hints at a plausible background, but doesn't actually offer it). > > How many people have devised extensive background detail for a B7 rolegame, > and to what extent do their ideas coincide with or contradict one another's? > > Neil > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:35:58 -0500 > From: "Kimberly D. Ashford" > To: > Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: <02beb46380119c8CPIMSSMTPU02@email.msn.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > In addition to what's already been posted: > > Blake: reputation, delusion ("I am the savior of the masses"!), fanaticism > Vila: combat paralysis, weak will > Avon: paranoia, vow ("I will keep fighting the Federation because I promised > Blake") > Servalan: charisma, status, sadism > Travis: military rank, bad temper, bloodlust. Travis could also have the > split personality disadvantage...hmm, it must be really severe, to make his > appearance change too! > > > I wasn't thinking of running the B7 people as player characters, but as > NPC's. That way the GM could make sure they stay in character; you'd have to > come up with your own original characters for the game. GURPS seems to me > to be the best game system for a B7 RPG, since it's so flexible. The most > complicated parts are the combat rules, but there probably wouldn't be much > hand to hand combat--so you wouldn't see "I rolled a 3, that's 27 > modified--do I hit?" too often. > > > > Kim, the Smartest Vet since Tristan Farnon > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:12:54 +1000 > From: "Taina Nieminen" > To: "B7" > Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: <001c01be2ee2$ec0d6520$6f6f6f6f@tenzil> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Neil wrote: > > >And going by what it says on p.26 of the Basic Set, you still get up to 40 > >points per character. Throw in 5 quirks and you get an extra 165 points > per > >character. Eeek! > > In fact, we did better than that. I got an extra 190 points all up - 120 > enemy, 5 sense of duty - companions, 10 status - escaped prisoner, 25 > poverty - dead broke, as group disads, and that was with only 25 points of > individual disads + 5 points of quirks. Like, we really tried. > > > >FWIW, I don't much like GURPS. It groans under the strain of all those > >modifiers and skill defaults (I prefer skill trees myself). > > Likewise. A doctor, say, who has electronics operation (medical equipment) > is able to, by default, repair, say, radars or computers. To my mind, that > is just silly. But I do like the GURPS set of advantages and disadvantages > very much. Most of my GMing in the last five years has been using a > skill-based system I created myself, but it's in limbo at the moment between > revisions, so I'm currently using GURPS for one campaign, and Champions for > the other. > > > >How do people go about rolegaming B7? Do you use the series characters, or > >originals? I've found that whenever the players use their own PCs, the end > >result is a flavourless generic space opera. The depth of background that > >appears to be in the series isn't really there when you turn it into a > >rolegame setting. It's the characters that make it B7. > > Well, my experience in the B7-type one was quite dreadful, The reason it was > B7 based was that our group had varying exposure to B7, ranging from none, > to fourth season only, to passing through the living room while I watched B7 > videos. Anyway, our GM was an experienced roleplayer, but very inexperienced > GM. We were saddled with super-NPC who could do everything we could do, but > better, and who wasn't shy about letting us know, and who became righteously > indignant when we didn't acknowledge her obvious superiority. The NPC bit is > important, it's not just a rant. Instead of fighting the Federation, we > ended up sitting around while the NPC and the late-joining PC talked about > economic problems with the favoured alien species who were superior in all > ways to humans. Compared to that, generic space opera with space battles and > shoot-outs with Federation guards seems quite attractive. I guess it's all a > matter of viewpoint. > > > >And what do you do when the player running Avon does something that s/he > >believes is entirely in character for Avon, but everyone else reckons is > way > >offline? > > The Champions game I'm running (which I've started only recently) faces a > similar problem in that it uses established characters from a comicbook > series (Legion of Superheroes). What I've done is to begin at the > beginning - at the formation of the Legion (ie beginning point of the > series) so that players don't have the burden of what their character has > done in the past being canonical. They're taking a character concept, and > some have taken it much better than others. Only at one point have I (so > far) said to a player, "Look, that character would simply not do that," and > that was for a very bad character misinterpretation. In the interests of > harmony, and not getting caught up in cyclical arguments (yes s/he would, no > s/he wouldn't), I've ignored (what I see as) other character > misinterpretations. And I hope that my players will generally do that, too. > But that's my opinion, and I realise that people do sometimes feel strongly > about characters dear to their hearts. > > I guess the above is sort of B7 related. > > Taina > =========================== > Is there a mind/body problem? > And if so, which is it better to have? > - Woody Allen > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:19:55 -0000 > From: "Neil Faulkner" > To: "lysator" > Subject: Re: SC: Re: [B7L] Redemption > Message-ID: <00a601be2fad$657d22e0$5e17ac3e@default> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >>What was the context of these remarks about > >> women, poofs and Pakis? > > > Maybe he was being deliberately abrasive in an attempt to stir up a > response. Not that I would know anything about such tactics. > > >I certainly didn't mean to start any flamewars here, but nor am I going to > >let Baskerville browbeat me for having a different opinion. As for the > >netiquette of posting his email - because I couldn't reply to him directly; > >his killfiling was the equivalent of shouting "jinx, no comebacks" and > >slamming the phone down childishly. > > > >So I'll apologise to the rest of the list - but not to him. > > > No apology required, and the exception would appear to be justified. > > Neil > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:05:04 -0000 > From: "Neil Faulkner" > To: "lysator" > Subject: Re: [B7L] RPG > Message-ID: <00a501be2fad$649b4e60$5e17ac3e@default> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >>Maybe if a number of us on the list who are > >>familiar with GURPS each take a character or two, or if we all contributed > >>suggestions for each character...either of those could be interesting (and > >>productive). We could work out a scenario for them later. > >> > What about Wealth? If a cheap hooker is a ten-credit touch ('Gambit') then > a credit works out at about 3 dollars. Standard starting wealth for an > interstellar campaign is 15,000 dollars (p.16), or 5,000 credits. Jenna > estimated the contents of the Liberator's strongroom at 300 million credits, > which between the six of the crew makes 50 million each. This is 10,000 > times average starting wealth and would have a character point cost of > several thousand... > And then there's Reputation (p.17). How well known are the characters, > and what kind of reputation do they have? Kayn worked out who they were in > 'Breakdown' and Renor had heard of them, so this can't be ignored. Blake at > least would certainly have a high Reputation. Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:22:13 GMT From: "Dita Stanistraken" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se, blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #2 Message-Id: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:40:00 +0100 (MET) > From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se > Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #2 > To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se > Reply-to: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > ------------------------------ > > Content-Type: text/plain > > blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 2 > > Today's Topics: > Re: [B7L] voice recognition > [B7L] Susan Riaz > Re: re [B7L] Voice recognition > Re: re [B7L] Voice recognition > [B7L] French spelling in Star Cops > Re: [B7L] Broken Hearts > Re: [B7L] Tarrant (that'll get Carol's attention -grin-) > Re: [B7L] Broken Hearts > [B7L] Susan Matthews's latest > [B7L] Matters Tarrant > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 21:55:45 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: Re: [B7L] voice recognition > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > On Sat 02 Jan, Kathryn Andersen wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 01, 1999 at 09:52:10PM +0100, Judith Proctor wrote: > > > > > > Maybe there had been laws restricting the development of computers with > > > personalities? > > > > C'mon, this is the Federation! They have *slaves*, they wouldn't balk > > at the ethics of artificial personalities. Or were you thinking in > > terms of the fear of true independent Artificial Intelligence, as > > distinct from personality simulations? I got the impression from what > > Avon said about Zen in particular, that true AI was something which > > the experts took for granted to be impossible. > > I was thinking of the potential problems of a computer with a mind of its own. > The altas fitted Zen with some kind of limiter, so they obviously faced similar > problems. > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:39:10 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: [B7L] Susan Riaz > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Does anyone have a current e-mail address for Susan Riaz? > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:05:12 -0000 > From: "Neil Faulkner" > To: "lysator" > Subject: Re: re [B7L] Voice recognition > Message-ID: <004201be3733$c5fcee60$701fac3e@default> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >>The concept of voiced and voice-activated computers > >> has been around for a long time in SF; it was pretty much old hat by the > >> time B7 rolled around. > > > >Exactly. In Trek, voice recognition was commonplace, Trek came before > >Blake's 7, so why did the writers choose for it not to be commonplace? > >One reason could be that Blake's 7, *not* being a utopia, had to be a > >bit more run-down and less luxurious. > >Of course, my problem is that I am trying to find an *internal* > >explanation, not an external one. > > > I'm not sure it was choice on the part of the writers; I think they were > themselves a bit overawed at the thought of holding conversations with a > computer. It would be interesting to hear Chris Boucher's take on this. I > distinctly remember, when I first encountered the Traveler RPG in 1980, > being a bit disturbed to see a 'pocket computer' on the equipment list. The > very concept was vaguely alarming. Nowadays, of course, I can pick one up > for twenty quid in Argos. > > There is a general tradition in science fiction for writers not to fully > understand the technology they put in their stories. Some deathless classic > of the Golden Age had teams of scientists laboriously working out logatithms > by hand, only then feeding the results into the computer. Harry Harrison, > in an essay on SF and technology, noted that computers in Golden Age stories > tended to be analogue rather than digital machines. > > >> >How are we to cope with this when I.T. creeps into fan fiction? I > >> >tend to assume that speech circuits and voice recognition are > >> >commonplace (certainly not expensive), and if that contradicts the > >> >series then the series can go fry. > > > >And Neil stands by that, as I have noticed in Neil's fiction, > >particularly the wonderful very cyberpunk "A Casting of Swords" (in > >Stadler Link), which, IMHO goes so much in that direction that it is > >hardly Blake's 7 at all. Really good story, and a delightfully > >chilling explanation for Gan's limiter, but the pure cyberpunk seems > >grafted on to the Blake's 7 universe, IMHO. > > > Glad you liked it; not everyone's cuppa, I know. > > Rgarding the technological overhaul, it has to be done, IMO. Techwise, the > aired series is hopelessly out of date in many respects, and needs to be > brought up to date. I think that this can be done without damaging the > overall structure of the series universe. It certainly needn't alter the > main characters to any significant degree, and since they're generally > reckoned to be the central point of interest, no real damage is done. > > Neil > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:20:53 -0000 > From: "Alison Page" > To: "lysator" > Subject: Re: re [B7L] Voice recognition > Message-Id: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Rgarding the technological overhaul, it has to be done, IMO. Techwise, > the > > aired series is hopelessly out of date in many respects, and needs to be > > brought up to date. I think that this can be done without damaging the > > overall structure of the series universe. It certainly needn't alter the > > main characters to any significant degree, and since they're generally > > reckoned to be the central point of interest, no real damage is done. > > > > Neil > > Watching 'Alien' this weekend it was very noticeable that the computer > technology was the most unbelievable part of the whole film. people in the > late 70's didn't seem to have a very good intuitive grasp of what computers > were about. Probably because computers were used, but in very restricted > circumstances at that time. > > One thing I can't bear in ST and B7 is that speedy computers wait on slow > poorly-timed human commands before executing vital manoeuvres. I also get > irritated by screens full of complex numbers scrolling past at top speed. > And finally the random jiggling light displays. In Alien the computer bay > is a whole room of pointless flickering fairy lights. At least Zen made it > clear that its display was a meaningless visual reference designed to > satisfy human psychology. > > I really like Kathryn's suggestion that while people might be able to > create human-like AI there are plenty of good reasons why they wouldn't > want to. An artifact is made to supplement a person, not to mimic one. If I > want a worker with a human-like mind then I would employ a person, not > build a computer. > > BTW watching Alien also confirmed my belief that 'Nostromo' is one of the > best spaceships on film or TV, which we had a debate about last year. > > Alison > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:12:12 +0100 (BST) > From: Judith Proctor > To: Lysator List > Subject: [B7L] French spelling in Star Cops > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Totally off-topic, but I'm editing 'An Instinct For Murder' and the text as I > received it doesn't have any accents. (I don't think computers could handle > them when Chris Boucher originally typed in the document.) > > I think I've got most of them in correctly now, but I'm stuck on 'Francoise'. > I've got a feeling the c should have a cidilla (one of those little hook things > underneath), but I can't think of a suitable reference book to check it in. > > Does anyone know? The character is French, so she should be spelt the French > way whatever that is. > > Judith > -- > http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 > > Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention > 26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent > http://www.smof.com/redemption/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 14:20:17 PST > From: "Penny Dreadful" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Broken Hearts > Message-ID: <19990103222018.16444.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Pat said: > > >Yeah here, why not? The best love stories do not get mired in sex. > >The best love stories focus on tragic love or unrequited love. > > So do I win a prize if I post the entirety of "Wuthering Heights" with > 'Servalan' substituted for all instances of 'Heathcliff' and 'Travis' > for 'Cathy'? > > After that: 'Romeo and Juliet' -> 'Tarrant and Dayna' > > "Tarrant, Tarrant, wherefore art thou, Tarrant? Don't make me blow up > this balcony, Tarrant!" > > --Penny "Womanly Softness" Dreadful > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 14:28:09 PST > From: "Joanne MacQueen" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Tarrant (that'll get Carol's attention -grin-) > Message-ID: <19990103222810.3713.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > >It must be those prevailing winds. It's hard to catch the right > currents >to reach Australia. But I'll keep trying. > > Well, it'll give you something to do when you're not eating, sleeping, > working, ogling the Toothy One, etc. Everyone needs a hobby > > >> Liking Avon is nature (for me); liking Tarrant is going to have to > be >> nurture, > >Do I even want to know how Snout and Snarl can be nature while > >adorable, sweet Tarrant has to be nurture? Probably not. It could > >destroy my faith in the human race. > > Erm, can I blame the Bronte sisters? I thought not When I was > twelve, I seem to recall thinking Avon nastier than I do now (and, to a > certain extent, I still think he's a nasty piece of work, and possibly > irredeemable into the bargain). But before Carol starts thinking there > was more hope for the early adolescent me I don't think I thought > anything of Tarrant. At all. I think it was Vila and, to a lesser > extent, Dayna, who had my affections then. > > By the way, "adorable, sweet Tarrant"? Careful, Carol, you're beginning > to sound like Cancer! > > >Yes, for sure. Where shall I start? [list of people noticing the > Toothy One being resourceful as well as decorative snipped] > > Or consider that Servalan also had the good taste to find Tarrant > >tempting, not to mention decorative and resourceful. > > You want someone to follow Servalan's lead? Carol, the > idea! > > >> docu-drama "Aftershocks" last night, and some of the archival >> > footage put me right back in 1989. Carol has provided the perfect >> > distraction from unhappy memories.) > >Sorry about the bad deja vu. You can call on me for distractions, > >perfect or otherwise, anytime. > > Thanks. It seems that one has only to say the magic word and the > Godmother's ears will prick up. > > >> I don't think one needs to be in that much of a hurry to defend > >> inconsistencies in "The Sevenfold Crown". > >A person has to do something to keep busy in between drool >production. > > Carol, drink plenty of fluids or you'll dehydrate, and nobody wants that > to happen to you > > > Now be good and catch some of that dust. > > Yes, Godmother. > > Regards > Joanne > > Appeal: Legal version of double or quits. > --Miles Kington, "A Simple Glossary of Legal Terms", The Punch Book of > Crime > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 14:34:39 PST > From: "Joanne MacQueen" > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: Re: [B7L] Broken Hearts > Message-ID: <19990103223439.14218.qmail@hotmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > >So do I win a prize if I post the entirety of "Wuthering Heights" with > >'Servalan' substituted for all instances of 'Heathcliff' and 'Travis' > >for 'Cathy'? > >After that: 'Romeo and Juliet' -> 'Tarrant and Dayna' > >"Tarrant, Tarrant, wherefore art thou, Tarrant? Don't make me blow >up > this balcony, Tarrant!" > > Dreadful, Penny > > Regards > Joanne > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 99 23:40:00 GMT > From: s.thompson8@genie.com > To: space-city%world.std.com%inet03#@genie.com > Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Susan Matthews's latest > Message-Id: <199901032341.XAA04703@rock103.genie.net> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > For Susan Matthews fans, here's a review of the third book in her pro > series. It's by Carolyn Cushman and is from the December '98 issue of > =Locus=, p. 23. > > (For anyone who wonders what this has to do with B7, Susan started her > career as a fan writer, primarily in Star Wars and B7. She is especially > known for one of the all-time favorite B7 fan novels, =The Mind of Man Is a > Double-Edged Sword=, as well as its two sequels; they're now out of print, > but used copies can be found fairly easily. Highly recommended, especially > if you like Avon angst.) > > "Susan R. Matthews, =Hour of Judgment= (Avon Eos 0-380-80314-3, $5.99, 260 > pp, pb) January 1999. Cover by J. K. Potter. > > "Surgeon and Inquisitor Andrej Koscuisko returns in his third adventure, set > five years after the previous book, when he uncovered some serious > government corruption. Apparently, the powers-that-be still haven't > forgiven him; just as he comes to the end of his enlistment, Andrej learns > that he's going to be drafted back in, to a worse posting than before. > Meanwhile, he has to cope with a sadistic, games-playing captain whose > charming crew includes an officer who rapes a prostitute so badly she > requires Andrej's surgical skills, which then leads to a murder Andrej must > solve. Andrej only gets to torture one suspect this time, something of a > departure for the series, but even if torture's not central, Andrej's angst > still remains. We also geet to meet one of Andrej's princely cousins, and > get more cultural detail, which is interesting enough I regretted Andrej had > to re-up; it would have been nice to see more of his native background. > Still, there are hints that Andrej and his people may have a role in > changing the brutal rule of the Jurisdiction; the ending's as close to > hopeful as this gripping series has gotten yet. It's powerful, tense, and > oddly fun, compulsive reading." > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:35:08 EST > From: Mac4781@aol.com > To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se > Subject: [B7L] Matters Tarrant > Message-ID: <2d5abafa.3690c38c@aol.com> > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Penny wrote: > > > After that: 'Romeo and Juliet' -> 'Tarrant and Dayna' > > > > "Tarrant, Tarrant, wherefore art thou, Tarrant? Don't make me blow up > > this balcony, Tarrant!" > > That's hilarious, so-o-o Dayna. I get the feeling *this* Juliet wouldn't have > met a tragic end: > > "What's here? A cup, clos'd in my true love's hand? > Poison, I see, hath been his timeless end:-- > Oh churl! I guess that means I have to find a new boyfriend." > > Joanne revealed: > > > I don't think I thought > > anything of Tarrant. At all. I think it was Vila and, to a lesser > > extent, Dayna, who had my affections then. > > My goodness. Vila and Dayna. That's an interesting combination. They aren't > at all alike. > > > By the way, "adorable, sweet Tarrant"? Careful, Carol, you're beginning > > to sound like Cancer! > > Well, he is a tasty morsel. While she was feeding Avon to her mechanical > critter, she was keeping the succulent Tarrant for herself. :) > > > You want someone to follow Servalan's lead? Carol, the > > idea! > > But...but... she's my role model. > > > Yes, Godmother. > > Not quite the proper attitude...yet. Maybe I need to borrow that machine > Servalan used on Dayna. :) > > Carol Mc > > -------------------------------- > End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #2 > ************************************ > Dita, President and Supreme Commander of the Terran Federation. -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #21 *************************************