From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #264 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/264 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 264 Today's Topics: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort Re: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort Re: [B7L] Re [ B7L] Spacials [B7L] Frame capture nominations ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:51:38 +0100 From: "Andrew Ellis" To: Subject: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort Message-ID: <011601bef972$c8b8e120$fb2d63c3@leanet.futures.bt.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="----------------------------"; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm new to the list (one day old). Hi, Please forgive me if anything I say is obvious, stupid, or covered before. I'm sure you'll enjoy disagreeing with me. You seem to be finishing a discussion on length scales, so here is my contribution. As regards distance and velocity measurements I have ALWAYS assumed that they are logarithmic, so I agree with Judith. A linear scale just can't cope with star ship, planetary system and interstellar distances. In C20 we use km, AU's and Light Years respectively. But in the "real world" of space travel, you can't be doing with three systems of units where you transfer seamlessly between them, hence spacials. A useful base scale might be a standard orbit. Now, we have spatials, a logarithmic length scale, so velocity or speed should be also be measured on a logarithmic scale. Consider simply doubling the "speed" from the pedestrian Standard by 6 to the phenomenally self destructive Standard by 12, (and Standard by 8 is considered faster than anything the federation has, and is a good escape speed). On a linear scale its just does not make sense. But, if we used a logarithmic scale, such as the decibel scale, then in terms of linear velocity (km/hr), Standard by 9 is twice as fast as Standard by 6. But an interesting question, for the mathematically minded is. Is standard speed given by a) Log (distance travelled in lightyears) divided by time taken in seconds = spatials per second or b) Log (distance in lightyears divided by time in seconds) In (b) we have the natural measure of velocity reflecting some degree of TIME DISTORTION, but (a) is more useful to the human brain, acustommed to measuring time linearly. What does everybody else think ? Andrew Ellis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:03:21 +1000 From: Kathryn Andersen To: "Blake's 7 list" Subject: Re: [B7L] Spatials, Standard Speed, Time Distort Message-ID: <19990908200321.A1724@welkin.apana.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Sep 07, 1999 at 09:51:38PM +0100, Andrew Ellis wrote: > > I'm new to the list (one day old). Welcome. > Please forgive me if anything I say is obvious, stupid, or covered before. > I'm sure you'll enjoy disagreeing with me. > Now, we have spatials, a logarithmic length scale, so velocity or speed > should be also be measured on a logarithmic scale. Consider simply doubling > the "speed" from the pedestrian Standard by 6 to the phenomenally self > destructive Standard by 12, (and Standard by 8 is considered faster than > anything the federation has, and is a good escape speed). On a linear scale > its just does not make sense. Maybe, maybe not. The crux of your argument really doesn't depend on making sense or consistency with the usual Federation measurement systems at all. It really depends on what Zen deduced from the Terran word "by". Why do I say that? Well, if you cast your minds back, mes amies, to Cygnus Alpha, where Blake and Jenna and Avon are pottering around this alien ship, Zen is activated, and says "State course and speed". Blake, having no idea what sort of speed this ship is cabable of, intelligently hedges his bets by saying "Cygnus Alpha, standard speed." All further speed requests are couched in these terms: standard by 2, standard by 6, standard by 12. I always thought that "by" meant "multiplied by" as it usually would in English, not "to the power of" or the like. Consider this: if "standard speed" is standard cruising speed, then running around at even twice the cruising speed could be wearing on the engines, and standard by 12 could actually *be* very self-destructive. I mean, if you take a car that normally cruises at 100 kph and make it go at 1200 kph, it's not going to last very long. Maybe mere multiplication is enough. On the other hand, maybe it isn't a multiplication of the actual speed, but of the time-distort factor. We do get the impression that the standard FTL drives, both those of the Federation and the Liberator, use "time-distort" in some way as part of their functioning. That was why Dr. Plaxton's Photonic Drive was so radical - it enabled one to go at time-distort speeds *in real time*. I occassionally wondered what would happen if you put a photonic drive and a time-distort drive in tandem; you'd get a phenomenal increase in speed... Or maybe they would just interfere with each other. -- _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen / \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat \_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h" v | ------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:03:06 +0100 From: "Alison Page" To: "lysator" Subject: Re: [B7L] Re [ B7L] Spacials Message-ID: <00db01befa03$023f47a0$ca8edec2@pre-installedco> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit steve quoted me: >> On the contrary. The main thing you want to know in navigation or battle is >> 'how long subjectively until such and such an event' > >It doesn't work all the time, though. How do you clearly specify an orbit? >In this case, you're specifying the result of a function, but not enough >of the variables to resolve it. > >steve > You got the wrong person Steve. I mean steve :-) I think it was Ellyne that suggested 'orbits'. My suggestion was to calculate spacials from the three variables speed, distance and time distortion. That would tell you 'how long until' Given that nobody, least of all the writers, had a clue about what 'time distort' was, I suggest one uses it freely to patch up all problems with distances, speeds, times, and relative ageing of characters throughout all four seasons. Alison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:36:06 -0500 From: Lisa Williams To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: [B7L] Frame capture nominations Message-Id: <4.1.19990908202504.00abad60@mail.dallas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Before long I am going to be starting on another batch of new frame captures for my image library. I'll be adding five B7 episodes in this group, which will bring the total in the library to 13 episodes. I would like nominations from list members for which episodes to include. If there are any you would especially like to see in the library, please send me your choices -- offlist, so as not to clutter up the lists. (Send to me at .) I'll use the top five scorers, even if I think they're icky. You may nominate up to five episodes. I will be collecting votes up until the time I start working on the captures, probably in a couple of weeks. If you're not familiar with the frame capture library, you can find it at . - Lisa -- _____________________________________________________________ Lisa Williams: lcw@dallas.net or lwilliams@raytheon.com Lisa's Video Frame Capture Library: http://lcw.simplenet.com/ From Eroica With Love: http://eroica.simplenet.com/ -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #264 **************************************