From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se Subject: blakes7-d Digest V99 #314 X-Loop: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se X-Mailing-List: archive/volume99/314 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------" To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se Reply-To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 314 Today's Topics: [B7L] Avon/Cally (was: Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #312) Re: [B7L] squash ladder [B7L] Mornington Crescent Re: [B7L] Mornington Crescent [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #312) Re: [B7L] squash ladder Re: [B7L] squash ladder [B7L] Rebel Strategies Re [B7L] Why Dystopia? [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #312) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 12:14:02 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Avon/Cally (was: Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #312) Message-ID: <19991107201403.89754.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Avona wrote: Like Blake & Jenna, I think there was some physical attraction but it never got further than that. He does seem to prefer slim, almost fragile-looking but really rather tough women, and there is no doubt that in Time Squad Cally takes one look at him, likes who she sees, and *shows* it (which, given nearly everone else's early reaction to his charming nature, probably felt nice. Not nice enough to stop him wanting to dump her next ep, though). Avon likes her more than most of the rest of the crews of all 4 seasons, not that that's saying much, since IMO the only other ones he actually likes are Blake and Vila :-). But the differences in their characters (the ones I see at any rate) would preclude any deeper emotional tie developing - his prickliness, his unabashed selfishness, his casual verbal cruelty (and that ghost); her self- righteous streak, her usual humourlessness and her strong if sometimes lazy conscience. They work well together in Mission to Destiny and Voice from the Past, but in 2nd season they're both in their own way as close to Blake as anyone (Cally as empathiser, Avon as - err....whatever we all don't agree he is to Fearless Leader). 3rd season gets more spiky, of course, since she's the nearest he has left to an intellectual equal (Vila is quite another matter), but as far as Avon is concerned, any relationship would have to take a firm backseat to the Anna business, and Children of Auron is thuddingly full of negativity from the pair of them (he doesn't want to waste *his* time saving *her* people, despite her obvious distress - she, the original 'companions for my death' proponent, looks down her nose at his need for revenge). Following the corrosive fall-out of Rumours of Death, things get even more mixed (and IMO it would be a fairly long while before he took any interest in anyone anyway). Sargophagus indicates that, as she said in Rumours, she *has* decided that she cares (though not necessarily more than for the others?) and he knows it. On the other hand, in the 'we shouldn't have made Vila go' scene from Moloch (one of Avon's very rare open guilt-trips), he really seems pissed off with her complacency. In fact, I think at this stage it is Vila (less intellectual, but quick, mentally fluid and entertaining) that Avon actually is closest to, despite the fact that he uses Vila (and indeed all of his crew) unblushingly when he wants to. And of course, at the moment of Cally's death, she cries... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 12:16:37 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder Message-ID: <19991107201637.43780.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Neil apparently wrote (in a post I missed?): And Mistral: And I'll even point out that it's way way better than most of the other episodes, and *better* than just about everything except 'Blake'. (And far more fun to watch than that one. 'Blake' is great, but not fun). Of course, I'm not biased. Not in the slightest. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:05:07 +0000 From: Nicola Collie To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Mornington Crescent Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Neil wrote: > and a blow-by-blow account of the B7 > Mornington Crescent extravaganza. and Una replied: >I can't believe we played for *nine* days. Which just goes to show how completely *barking* you all are. Damn, I wish I'd been around to join in ;) The transcript, however, makes highly educational reading. I particularly appreciated McCormack's "sprightly avuncular thrust" - is that the Orbit manoeuvre? UK readers may wish to know that ISIHAC is starting a new series on Radio 4 on Monday at 6:30pm. Which means that I should probably refrain from eating or drinking until 7pm. Nicola ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:36:55 -0000 From: "Una McCormack" To: Subject: Re: [B7L] Mornington Crescent Message-ID: <001001bf2968$3e7a4000$0d01a8c0@hedge> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicola wrote: > UK readers may wish to know that ISIHAC is starting a new series on Radio 4 > on Monday at 6:30pm. Which means that I should probably refrain from eating > or drinking until 7pm. Go on - live dangerously. Una ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:03:17 -0700 From: "Ellynne G." To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #312) Message-ID: <19991107.230319.8926.0.Rilliara@juno.com> On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 12:14:02 PST "Sally Manton" writes: >Avona wrote: >didn't really think he had much genuine interest in Servalan, I >saw a real potential between them.> > >Like Blake & Jenna, I think there was some physical attraction but >it never got further than that. He does seem to prefer slim, almost >fragile-looking but really rather tough women, and there is no >doubt that in Time Squad Cally takes one look at him, likes who >she sees, and *shows* it (which, given nearly everone else's early >reaction to his charming nature, probably felt nice. Good point. Not nice >enough to stop him wanting to dump her next ep, though). Given how she'd succeeded in her sabotage by pretending interest in him/his work _and he fell for it_, that's what you'd expect him to say. Besides, look at the stuff he says about Blake. He'd suggested dumping him, too. >Avon likes her more than most of the rest of the crews of all 4 >seasons, not that that's saying much, since IMO the only other >ones he actually likes are Blake and Vila :-). But the differences >in their characters (the ones I see at any rate) would preclude any >deeper emotional tie developing - his prickliness, his unabashed >selfishness, I would say he _claims_ to be selfish. His prickliness also lightens up when he doesn't feel he has to maintain a certain image. his casual verbal cruelty (and that ghost); her self- >righteous streak, her usual humourlessness She's not humorless. She's just stuck with a bunch of foriegners (not even her subspecies) from a xenophobic society who rarely notice theirs is not the only world view universe (the freedom vs slavery thing they have with the Federation doesn't count. Although they may argue their points, they rarely have to explain the underlying concepts). I'm also not sure she had a self-righteous streak. She had strong convictions, but much of what she said reflected general attitudes among her people--like when she discussed trust with Avon. and her strong if >sometimes lazy conscience. > Her fellow Aurons would probably say it was the bad company she kept. >They work well together in Mission to Destiny and Voice from the >Past, So true. >3rd season gets more spiky, of course, since she's the nearest he >has left to an intellectual equal (Vila is quite another matter), >but as far as Avon is concerned, any relationship would have to >take a firm backseat to the Anna business, and Children of Auron >is thuddingly full of negativity from the pair of them (he doesn't >want to >waste *his* time saving *her* people, despite her obvious distress - >she, >the original 'companions for my death' proponent, looks down her nose >at his >need for revenge). Cally did soften over time. However, given the times Cally has been hoodwinked by other telepaths (including a rock trying to impersonate her parents), Avon's reluctance to let Cally go running off to a planet that might (if he was judging it by Earth standards) shoot exiles on sight is understandable. Given how things turned out in "Rumours," Cally was also right. >Following the corrosive fall-out of Rumours of Death, things get >even more mixed (and IMO it would be a fairly long while before he >took any >interest in anyone anyway). Sargophagus indicates that, >as she said in Rumours, she *has* decided that she cares (though >not necessarily more than for the others?) and he knows it. But he's not ready to deal with it--and she realizes that as well. I think Avon cared, he just wasn't ready to deal with caring. >And of course, at the moment of Cally's death, she cries... > Which was such an odd thing for her to cry out. Unless her variable telepathic gifts switched to prescience and she was giving a warning. Of course, this also assumes she died, which I've never quite accepted . . . . Ellynne ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 02:54:21 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder Message-ID: <3826ABDC.5D1DAD6C@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Neil Faulkner wrote: > Mistral wrote: > >Neil Faulkner wrote: > > And I did. But I inadvertently posted it only to Mistral, not the Lyst. > Sorry. And I totally failed to notice. My apologies, Neil, all. Mistral -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 03:00:39 -0800 From: mistral@ptinet.net To: B7 List Subject: Re: [B7L] squash ladder Message-ID: <3826AD56.618F7474@ptinet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sally Manton wrote (about Shadow): > And I'll even point out that it's way way better than most of the other > episodes, and *better* than just about everything except 'Blake'. (And far > more fun to watch than that one. 'Blake' is > great, but not fun). Ooh, well then, we'll have something to argue about when we getthat far. Blake has a terrific *impact*, but impact alone does *not* a better episode make. Mistral dives back into hiding... -- "Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!" --Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:43:15 EST From: AChevron@aol.com To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Rebel Strategies Message-ID: <0.d6264981.25583b83@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The comparisons between Project Avalon and Rumours of Death brought back to mind something about the rebel strategies in dealing with the Federation, as personified by Avalon and Blake. Though we see little of Avalon, the fact of where she was caught, and a reference I believe by Blake indicates that Avalon was fighting on the outer edges of Federation space. A strategy that utilizes the Federation's relative weakness in manpower and supplies along the periphery, as well as the presumable independance of citizens who have had to rely on their abilities to carve out footholds on the outer planets. This strategy has little chance of overthrowing the Federation in the long term, but it provides a place in the future for the resurgence of Man when the Federation crumbles under its own weight. I suspect this is what Avalon was most interested in; keeping the Federation from interfereing with the development of whatever government she was trying to create. A "Let Earth fend for itself" mentality, understandable if the Federation is effectively raping the outer worlds to support the inner circle of older colonized planets. Blake appeared more interested in a quicker, more drastic solution. Overthrowing the Federation by taking over Earth. Major advantages is that it provides a more complete victory, leaves the victors hopefully holding onto more resources(civil wars are so annoyingly destructive), and affects the largest number of humans. But this strategy means pitting meager resources against the full might of the Federation, and trying to influence a population that is both drugged witless, and that has relatively little to gain by a Rebel victory. After all, it's the beneficiary of the Federation's pirate-like rape of the outer worlds, and a Rebel victory would mean a cut in the standard of living. I'll need to re-watch to confirm some things, but it seems the main Federation fear is of a combined effort by the two groups to aling. Dev Tarrant returns to Earth to deal with what appears to be a local group that should have been dealt with by the regional security chief. What occurred that was serious enough to bring him back from the outer sectors(where he was presumably planting future traitors in Avalon's and others' groups? Apparantly the intention of the Resistance to unite their efforts with the stated goal of overturning Federation rule on at least 1 outer planet in the next 3 years. As a quick finish, I must confess my admiration of the Federation's security. All the evidence shows an economical use of resources with very good payoffs. They seem to manage to implant traitors with ease, they are capable of the subtle manipulaitons shown in episodes like Bounty; their intellegence is superb enough to spot the high level traitors as in Voices. How annoying to someone like Dev that a situation like Countdown occurred; I shudder to think of what the Federation's responce was after the Liberator sailed on its merry way. Enough ranting for now; time to get back to the pile of zines from E-Con...D. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 19:50:19 -0000 From: "Neil Faulkner" To: "b7" Subject: Re [B7L] Why Dystopia? Message-ID: <01dd01bf2a24$1717fae0$8514ac3e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was having a distinctly birdless time when I went out this morning, and as usual my mind started drifting from things feathered and I found myself wondering why dystopian visions like B7 are so popular in SF, and especially in Western liberal democracies. Aside from the obvious dramatic potential a dystopia offers compared to utopias (Happy Valley is doubtless a lovely place, but what actually -happens- there?), I thought of four possibilities. (1) The fictional dystopia functions as a convenient externalisation of the viewer's fear of living under such actual conditions. (2) The fictional dystopia mirrors the viewer's fear that s/he might actually be living in such a society. (3) The fictional dystopia functions as a vision of society as the viewer would like to think it actually is (the Cynic's Wish-Fulfilment theory). (4) The fictional dystopia is genuinely attractive compared to the viewer's actual experience of real life (the viewer presumably identifying with the gallant few who courageously challenge the tyrannical monolith etc, with or without the cognitive realisation that the reality would not be half as much fun as it is on television and probably wouldn't last half as long either). In my own case it's probably a mixture of (2) and (3) with a bit of (1). I'm too much of a coward to fall for (4). However, there might be other explanations for dystopias' popularity (including at least one glaringly obvious one I've totally overlooked). Anyway, having mulled over all that, I suddenly found a Mediterranean Gull and forgot all about dystopian visions until this evening. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:43:58 PST From: "Sally Manton" To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #312) Message-ID: <19991108204402.26947.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed On the subject of Avon/Cally, after I said: Ellyne answered: Oh I know. And sometimes (C Alpha) he even meant it... Then there's Vila and that little shuttle trip. And these three are the ones he *likes*... He exaggerates, but I do see a strong, unashamed vein of pure selfishness one of the central elements of his nature - it's no more an act that with Vila. Not the main one, maybe, but very strong and very real. (it's watching that selfish streak get tangled up with the other elements and tripping him up that's so fascinating.) Somewhat, but it's still there. He doesn't care for perople per se - and he's stuck with this lot. That's not quite what I mean. Cally does make one or two mild jokes, but looking at the ironic humour that continually laces just about everyone else's casual comments, Avon's precise, often lacerating wit, Vila's constant joking, Jenna's cool put-downs, Blake's layered, sometimes double-edged humour, Tarrant's dry sarcasm, the verbal games Blake and Avon play, the amount of teasing that goes on...Cally (and Gan) do get left behind. She's more sober of mind than the others (with great forbearance, I did not say dull...) Her fellow Aurons seemed to have had similarly convenient consciences Breakdown is the most glaring example of both self-righteousness and laziness on her part, Children, Moloch and (in my opinion *only*, I know) Star One being other ones. Please note, I think Cally's faults are far smaller and normally more forgiveable than you-know-who's (except for the average totally prejudiced observer like - um - me), but Avon ain't exactly tolerant of other people's faults. Agreed, with hindsight, but that wasn't why either objected, was it? Avon thought saving 'people he doesn't even know' a waste of time better spent killing someone he nughtn't know but hates - the inherent dangers were very much an afterthought. Cally objected because Seeking Revenge Is Wrong. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------------------------- End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #314 **************************************